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Simone Heng, author of 'Let's Talk About Loneliness,' shares her wisdom on recognizing and combatting loneliness in today's society. From identifying symptoms to navigating major life transitions, Simone provides invaluable insights into fostering meaningful connections that truly nourish the soul. Tune in for a dose of oxytocin and the tools to enrich your life with authentic connection.
To view full show notes, more information on our guests, resources mentioned in the episode, discount codes, transcripts, and more, visit https://drmindypelz.com/ep233
Simone Heng is a human connection specialist and former international broadcaster for, among others, Virgin Radio Dubai, HBO Asia, and CNBC. She is one of the youngest female Certified Speaking Professionals in the world. With over fifteen years of experience as a communicator on air, on stage, and one-on-one in different countries, connection has always been her life's work.
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Please note our medical disclaimer.
We were taught that doing anything "like a girl" was a weakness. Dr. Mindy Pelz is here to prove it's your greatest strength.
A renowned advocate for women's health, Dr. Mindy is passionately committed to helping women embrace and trust their body's natural healing processes. Drawing on an extensive background in women's health, she's developed groundbreaking, science-backed approaches that help women work with their hormones, not against them, through every stage of life, from cycling to perimenopause to the wisdom of the years beyond.
On Live Like a Girl, Dr. Mindy helps you come home to your own body. Every Monday, she sits down with some of the brightest minds in health and wellness for honest, meaningful conversations that hand you the knowledge, tools, and science to do health your way. No more pushing through, gaslighting yourself, or shrinking to fit. Just permission to live in rhythm with the body you were designed to have and to finally feel at home in it.
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Dr. Mindy: On this episode of
The Resetter podcast, I bring
you Simone Heng. Now, roll up
your sleeves, pull up a chair,
grab a cup of coffee, or a cup
of tea, because you are about to
hear an incredible discussion on
the power of human connection.
And this is something that I
have really been wanting to
bring to you all because of the
hormone oxytocin. So much of
what I teach is about balancing
hormones. And those of you who
have read my books know that at
the top of the hormonal
hierarchy, the master hormone
that balances all hormones is
oxytocin. And the best way to
get oxytocin is through human
connection. And so I have been
talking about this in my reset
Academy, I have shared this on
podcast, that one of the things
we have to look at when we are
wanting to lose weight, when we
are wanting to bring our our sex
hormones back into balance is
where are the relationships in
our life. And this isn't just
our intimate relationships. But
this is also the relationship to
yourself. So I have been
thinking about this for several
years now and wanting to bring a
really good episode to you all
on how we can create deeper
connection in our life. And then
I met Simone, and we instantly
hit it off and just I just loved
her energy. She was like,
literally, within the first five
minutes of talking to me, she
asked me what my three favorite
books were. And I was like, Oh,
my gosh, I love books. Let it
let you let me tell you and we
ended up in this very deep,
incredible connecting
conversation. She wrote a book
called let's talk about
loneliness. And I think it's a
lot of what we're suffering with
right now in humanity are the
things that are staying in
silence, and loneliness is one
of them. And I think there's a
lot of shame around when we feel
lonely. I think there's a lot
of, we don't know, our door out
of loneliness. I think we don't
know how to measure loneliness.
And what's going to happen in
this conversation is Simone is
going to answer all of that she
is going to tell you what the
symptoms are of loneliness, and
it's going to blow your mind.
She's going to talk I asked her
and to really talk about what
happens when we have big life
changes, like our kids leave the
home or we leave a job, or we
leave a long term relationship
and loneliness kicks in what do
we do in those situations? We
talked about how do you find
good quality connections? Like
how do you know if the people in
your life are actually filling
you with oxytocin? You know, we
have a lot of a lot of people
that I know that are constantly
surrounded by people are some of
the loneliest people I know.
Because those relationships are
not the depth of what their soul
craves. If you're looking for
more oxytocin if you're looking
to create better relationships
in your life, if you're looking
to connect to yourself, and how
do you deepen your love for
yourself, this is the
conversation for you. Welcome to
the resetter podcast. This
podcast is all about empowering
you to believe in yourself.
Again, if you have a passion for
learning, if you're looking to
be in control of your health and
take your power back, this is
the podcast for you.
So I've been wanting to bring
this topic of loneliness and and
really bring it to the surface
so we can have a really good
conversation about it. And so
I'm so happy that finally we
have connected our schedules and
that your hair so welcome so
Simone Heng: much, and your hair
looks bomb. By the way, this is
my first time interacting with
Mindy when it's above. It's
amazing. It's so good to be
here.
Dr. Mindy: Thank you. So So
here's something that I've been
thinking deeply about when it
comes to human connection. And
this really started during COVID
I just, I like many people sat
like flabbergasted as to
isolation and what that meant to
our health and I and since then
I have spent a lot of time
talking when I have my clinic
talking to patients about how
they felt about that process. I
know how my parents, my eight
year old parents health really
suffered from the lack of
communication. And I feel like
then we opened up we all came
into the world. And we still
haven't addressed this major
issue around how important human
connection is for us. So I think
the best place to start this
conversation is really at like
the pain point. What like how do
you know if you You are
disconnected because loneliness
is sneaky. And it doesn't give
you really clear symptoms. And
in your book, you talk about
some that actually blew me away.
Yeah, it's so
Simone Heng: interesting because
we know the lonely brain is
actually not rational. So how do
you know whether you're lonely
or you're going through some
other symptoms. So here are some
things you can look for.
Firstly, is lack of good quality
sleep. So there is this amazing
researcher called Dr. Louise
Hokulea. She actually studies
micro awakenings in the sleep as
a marker of if you've
disconnected. So if you had you
know, everyone in the pandemic
was like saying I am having
vivid dreams, and I'm waking up
in the middle of night. Yes,
it's to do with the stress of
the uncertainty. But it could
also be long term from the
loneliness. And that's to do
with how we evolved as early
humans in tribes. So obviously,
we became dominant of all the
species because of our ability
to care for each other, and work
in numbers. And that kept us
safe. But imagine our worst
nightmare is to be cast out,
because we would be killed by
saber toothed tiger or a foreign
tribe in minutes. what would
actually happen, there is a
fight or flight response. And
what's really interesting when
we lived in those tribes is that
other people in the tribe would
take turns to watch while we
slept. So when we were cast out
of that tribe, we're sleeping in
the tree waking up every five
minutes to make sure we're not
under threat, that brain still
sits on us. So if yes, that
lesson good quality sleep is
starting to happen. It's a great
first indicator, another
fantastic indicator of chronic
loneliness, is holding your
friends to a higher standard
than is reasonable. And for me,
this is my first alarm. For
example, I'm a single, just
about to be 40 year old woman
who lives alone. So I have all
of my girlfriends, I'm Auntie to
all their kids, and they all
have children, they're married.
And sometimes stuff comes up
with the kids, you know, and you
and I'm always my rational
response is we like of course,
and he Simone will see the kids
later. But the lonely brain
response is actually to hold
that friend to highest standards
reasonable. So the lonely brain
will give you thoughts like,
well, they're not a good friend,
cut them off. It's a rational
thoughts. And I'll actually know
that I'm a bit disconnected when
I'll get those thoughts, because
the lonely brain is not
rational. Yeah, so with you so
Exactly. Dr. James Cohn talks
about this a bit on my Youtube.
Exactly. At that point, when you
should be more social reaching
out to people. Loneliness causes
a spiral, right? So it makes you
cognitively slower, which means
you're socially more awkward.
Yes. So you go to that party and
your brains not as quick, you
don't have the whips that maybe
usually have, you're not as
socially agile. So a lot of us
saw this after the pandemic. So
then you can't make more friends
just to the point where you need
more friends. And I think that
that's what everyone needs to
know more about with loneliness,
it's like you're not going
crazy. This is the self
preservation cycle, right?
Another thing that we'll find
with learners is you become
socially awkward in that you
don't interpret social cues as
well. So we saw after the
pandemic, you know, people
having outbursts and offers
zooms, just that being out of
practice. But also, we're post
pandemic, now, people are still
experiencing this, it hasn't
changed. And with Gen Z,
specifically, and I know many of
your audience are the mothers of
Gen Z's or the aunties of Gen
Z's or whatever. Yeah. Where
we're seeing a whole slew right
now of digital app inventions
that had been devised to tackle
the issue of that Gen. That Gen
Z population that was in those
formative social years. You
know, when you were in high
school, Mindy, cast our mind
back, the two of us, were you
were finding out who you were in
juxtaposition to the people
around you. So Dr. Manufacture
sporty because she didn't like
hanging out with the drama kids.
You know, I found out I wasn't
the most athletic, you know, but
we were finding out ourselves
through social interaction. Now,
let's imagine that generation
had two and a half, three years
of that just removed. And then
we're asking them to go back in
and integrate, so that they're
doing a double job. Now I gotta
find out who I am. And then I've
also got to be able to
socialize. So you'll see on my
tic tock, there's just mass
comments about I have or videos
about social anxiety. Yes, I
don't doubt that many of them
have social anxiety, because
imagine, you don't have it's not
like us that the skills
atrophied. You don't even have
the social tools to get back in
the game. That is hugely anxiety
inducing when you're lonely, and
you really want friends. And I
really feel for that generation
globally. In the global medicine
Gallup study, there's only 1%
separating how lonely they feel
from my mother's generation
who's in their 80s. But if we
look at North America, and we
look at Australia, specifically
Where I grew up Gen Z are the
loneliest of all generations. So
in specific markets, that that
is what all of us in the space
are attributing that to, because
it's, it's yeah, it's like
telling someone go fend for
yourself and not not having
giving them any of the skills.
Dr. Mindy: So what does
connection look like? Because
one of the things that I found
interesting about your book that
I really, really loved was you
start off with connection to
self. And I thought, Oh, thank
you. Because I think that it's
really, at least in the old day,
the old days before the
pandemic, I, you know, I think
if I was lonely, I would call
somebody. And I would be like,
Hey, let's go do something. And
I would look at that as
connection. But what I've
learned now in my 54th year here
on this planet, is that what as
I've gotten to know myself
better, as I've turned within
and connected to myself better,
my relationships are changing,
and the depth of relationship is
changing. So talk about what
connection looks like, and can
we start off with self
connection? How is and is that
the place to start? It seems
like it would be the most
logical place to start. But what
are the skill sets we have even
to connect to
Simone Heng: us. And I've always
been really mindful when I talk
to what I know as an audience of
busy working mothers who are
juggling when I talk about self
connection, because people
assume that means I need self
care time or time alone. So
firstly, I define self
connection, as an awareness of
one's own experience in any
given moment. It's only through
self connection that you could
identify the difference between
is my friend not being good
friend, or am I lonely, right,
it's that deep relationship to
be able to pull the fibers
apart, right from the bowl of
candy floss, let's pull those
fibers apart. So I want to say
firstly, I believe self
connection before, all of the
other types of connection, which
hopefully we'll talk about
later, is the most important
followed by intimate connection.
That's your five closest people,
you can be truly, deeply seen by
and share your existential
crisis and so forth. But guess
what you can't make or maintain
that intimate circle, unless
there is a level of knowing and
understanding what state you're
in at any given time. Because in
the environment we're living in
where our email is pinging off
and our phone is pinging off.
And we've also got our existing
trauma, which I share a lot on
mine in the book, there is so
many things that are that are in
our current environment, that
take us away from that
connection to self. And we're
living disembodied, right,
because we're living in these
like you and I right now
connecting digitally. So self
connection absolutely needs to
happen. And whether that is two
to five minutes before just
breathing before you're dealing
with your family, your intimates
for people who live in a
household with their family. And
normally those five people that
you cohabitate with it is the
game changer in terms of
maintaining beautiful human
connections from interfacing
with the barista at Starbucks to
the road rage incident, that's
going to happen when you're
pulling up at the lights on the
way home. Like if there's that,
checking in of the awareness, we
can avoid the fight or flight
mode that plagues us. That is
also caused by loneliness.
Loneliness also causes a fight
or flight response. So
Dr. Mindy: okay, I want to pause
with you right there. Because I
think this is a really
interesting point. Because until
I read your book, I always
thought, if you're lonely, go
find somebody to talk to. And
it's like, go out and seek
friendships and communities
literally, that's the way I
always looked at it until I read
your book. And then when I read
this part about self connection,
I started thinking about my own
journey in the last couple of
years. And I've been really
since I since I left my
practice, which was a very
difficult thing to do, where I
was surrounded by people,
hundreds of people every week.
And then I came home. And I was
sitting with myself and doing
all my work with me and a
computer screen. And it was I
went into deep grief. And what I
learned in that moment, was that
the deep grief wasn't coming
because I didn't have as much
human interaction. It was that
the human interaction that I had
had for so many years acted like
a buffer that prevented me from
truly knowing who I am and what
I wanted and what I was here to
do, and to really get to know
myself. And so I've been on this
incredible discovery to find
that person. So when I think
about self connection, I think
about the pause that you talk
about. And then I think about
women who like me who are people
pleasers or women who are always
doing something for everybody
else that just want to give give
because we've been taught That
makes us feel good if we can
make everybody around us happy.
But in in that moment, we don't
know ourselves. We don't that
you can be the busiest person
the most have the the life of
the party. And when the party
shuts down, you don't know
yourself. That was me. So talk
to that person, because that was
a real Aha I had this year is
that I really didn't know I
Simone Heng: hear from women a
lot, particularly those going
through divorces, and some of my
male friends going divorce
through divorces, that the
period of time where the
children are young, and they're
working, is a complete hijacking
of the self. Like there is not
bandwidth, to Yeah, to sit down
and have the green juice and
meditate in the park, like What
is everyone talking about?
Right? And it always guilt them.
That's right. And I and I do
think for someone like me, it is
a luxury that I have this time I
have other cognitive loads, like
my mother, who's ill, I do want
to speak into this idea of the
connection that you felt was
actually distracting because
it's been five years since I
left broadcasting. And my last
broadcasting job was very toxic.
And that toxicity triggered a
lot of my childhood issues. So I
didn't have any like I was in
fight or flight perpetually. And
I didn't realize it for about 20
years of being a broadcaster,
that industry did not fit me. So
I was constantly back in a
childhood loop of trying to get
approval. And I didn't have any
connection to myself, I had no
somatic connection either. So we
look at self connection, as also
the fusing of that mind, body
and spirit, right. I was
completely, I had a hateful
relationship with my body, I had
completely thrown out my
intellect, which is now the
vehicle with which I work with.
And I think so many of us live
in situations where we work, we
are outside of our bodies, like
forget connecting within myself,
I am in fight or flight
chronically, and I'm outside of
my body. And I think we have to
put things into our days, even
small, I like to put calendar
reminders to take breaks and
check in because it ends up
destroying relationships. We're
irritable, we're short with
people, we're what I call
agitato it's a word I made up to
make agitation sound a bit nicer
digitata it's like an Italian
during version of agile of
agitated, I'm agile Tato right
now give me a muesli bar, tell
me to sit down, have a breather.
And in the way that we're living
it I feel like in the way we
currently operate it there's the
world is almost weighted against
us to be in a fight or flight
mode. And this is how loneliness
comes in. Even if you're
watching this or listening to
this and you think I am smoking,
I am not lonely. Okay, let me
just add another layer to this.
Remember I said our worst
nightmare on the tribe is to be
cast out of the tribe. So then
within those spaces out in the
savanna by ourselves, the body
sends an alarm, you're alone,
you're gonna die soon, you're
alone, you're alone, you're
alone. So you go into that fight
or flight state with all the
cortisol with, you know,
norepinephrine, all of that
stuff is going through you. And
on an incidental level. For most
people. That's just the alarm to
go back out and connect exactly
what you were saying. Like it's
logical, and a bit lonely, I
need to phone a friend. But the
state of modernity that we're
living in means people are
living in that chronic fight or
flight all the time, because our
cities have become planned
differently. We're remote or
hybrid working, we had a
pandemic, everything is stacked
against us. And so that low
level anxiety that low level
fight or flight is now through
us chronically, which ends up
destroying our immunity and
shortening our lifespan, which
is why you hear you know, Juliet
hotline, stats stat, she
endorsed my book, she is the
lady who discovered it's more
dangerous to be lonely than
smoking 15 cigarettes a day and
alcohol use disorder or obesity.
So that is because of that low
level find out and people don't
know why they're like, Well, why
why is that? That is what's
happening. It's not just a
mental health thing. It's a
physical health thing, too.
Dr. Mindy: I saw that too in the
book. And I was like, oh,
because I'm a I'm a health stat
fanatic. And I was like, isn't
this interesting? Because right
now, I don't know if you've
noticed on social media, there's
a big trend to bash alcohol. And
I'm not saying that like alcohol
is a health food in any way
shape or form. I'm just saying
we have bigger fish to fry and
we have to look at other habits
that are destroying people. And
if you take especially a
menopausal woman who's really
struggling with depression,
anxiety, you take her glass away
a wine away from her now you
have like literally like a
suicidal woman. So I this is why
I like going to the root issue
that is causing poor health. And
so what I hear not only in that
statistic and and what you say
is that loneliness begins by
learning how to connect to
yourself, yeah, that that is
revenue that is like, I've never
heard that when it comes to
loneliness. And I really want to
point this out to the listeners
because what my old style of
functioning when I was lonely
was to call about 1000 friends.
The year after I closed my
clinic was also the year my, my
second child had left the house
so I was an empty nester. And I
had closed my clinic so like to
talk about lonely. And so I
would be calling people all the
time, but it felt unquenchable.
It felt like I could never get
enough people to talk to to help
this feeling inside of me. And
one day my therapist said to me,
what if what if you were your
favorite person? Like what if
the best thing you could do was
hanging out with you? And just
get to know you? And that became
a game changer to me. And once I
started to really go what what
do I need to do for my mind? Who
do I need to show up for myself?
So I want to hang out with me.
All of a sudden, I did truly go
hey, I don't mind being alone
because I it's just me and me.
And I love me. And I noticed
that my intimate relationships
as you call it became deeper and
they became more satisfying. Oh
Simone Heng: my gosh, so hot.
And delicious. Okay, I want to
also point out how delicious the
conversations that Dr. Bini
housings podcast app, because
they are very big clues for the
quality of the type of
conversation that makes us feel
seen and makes us less lonely.
So I'm gonna give you an example
of why a lot of these apps that
have been created to solve
loneliness, things like there's
an app called times left
algorithmically puts six changes
together to go to dinner. Dr.
Mindy, right. Problem is at the
end of it, the journalist
reviewing the exercise was like,
oh, all the rest of the people
was swapping phone numbers to
meet again. And I was like,
maybe there are five other
people out there that are better
than these people. So these apps
allow us to continue to make
exponential shallow connection.
And therefore, with shallow
connection, we don't have those
moments of this conversation is
delicious. Let's go there. We
don't have that level of
intimacy. That is a cell for
loneliness. And when you go
shallow and wide, you don't
sleep your scene. So those five
after self connection, the five
intimate connections are very
important. The second thing I
want to point out, for those of
you who don't feel lonely
listening to this, but you want
to show up for lonely people in
your life. We all know when we
scroll our WhatsApp which one of
our friends likes to self
isolate, which one of our
friends we don't hear from
unless we reach out, they're
kind of introverted. The worst
thing that you can say to these
people during their pain of
loneliness is hey, just go out
and make friends gone, do
volunteer work, go out and
connect, similar to you know,
similar to depression like it,
those comments, make them feel
how little you understand. And
the cognitive dissonance between
you. So actually, it should be
again, about listening, making
them feel heard, and gentle
nudges, right? Because the
lonely brain will spiral and
further isolate. And lastly, the
idea of sitting with ourselves.
So self connection is the
subject of my second book,
although we may use cert with
another week, we're in
discussion right now. But I have
written the first draft. So one
of the chapters is all about
sitting with your discomfort,
the discomfort of sitting with
yourself. And in an era where
our that our the young people in
our life are funneling to find
their own identity. And then we
have bombardment from all these
forms of media, which is a great
blessing. But at the same time,
if you don't have self
connection, how that can also
hijack you. There's also
emotional trauma, there are all
these things that are
uncomfortable. But that self
connection will be the gift that
brings you through till the end
of your life and it will, like
you said, change the quality
depth and the filtering process.
If I look back to entertainment
industry, Simone, which is like
another human right, a different
iteration of me. And the lack of
self connection meant how I was
choosing to spend my time with
people that should have just
been filtered. If I'd had self
connection I would have known
Holly your issues. That's why
you're attracted to these
people. This is why you feel
more alone. It's a vicious
cycle. Get out of it, you know
and but you don't have that
without the self Yes. Ah, God,
Dr. Mindy: I so I the only I'm
hearing your words so
differently because then perhaps
I would have heard him a year or
two ago, because I have just
landed in this place of really
feeling finally for the first
time My life connected to me.
And so what I'm noticing, like I
said in that is I'm becoming
less tolerant of people who are
operating from their traumas,
people who are needing me to
show up a certain way, people
who have an ulterior agenda when
it comes to connecting to me.
I'm like, all it's like a
bullshit detector that all of a
sudden got turned on. And I was
like, Oh, you're not good for
me. No, this relationships not
good for me. And I didn't see it
before. I didn't see it before.
So one of the things just to
help the audience that I really
want to talk about, before we
move on to these intimate
connections, is one of the
things that I've struggled with.
And this is just full
transparency, is if I'm going to
sit with me, then I'm gonna have
to listen to what goes on up in
the mind. And a lot of times, I
don't want to hear the bullshit
that my mind is telling me. And
so sitting became torturous.
I'll never forget the first time
I laid in one of those
floatation tanks where it's a
sensory deprivation tank, I
thought that might be a good
idea to test that out. And when
the lights went off, and the
sound went away, I was like, I'm
gonna lie here with nothing
other than my thoughts for an
hour, I may go crazy. And so I
started to really unpack what do
I do with those thoughts that
make me crazy. And one of the
things I found really worked for
me was walking. If I had a
pattern of thought that wasn't
working, just go for a walk,
like move. And it was almost
like the thoughts that didn't
serve me just started to like,
leak out and move away. And a
calmer thought that came in.
Another another tool that I
found was Transcendental
Meditation, where I actually had
a mantra that I could focus on.
And then those thoughts could
kind of come up and out, breath,
work, all kinds of breath work
became incredibly helpful to
just hear better thoughts inside
my head. So I wanted to sit with
me. Now, those are the only
three I know, but help the
person who's like, this sounds
beautiful, but you don't know
what goes on up in my head. Or
this sounds amazing. But, you
know, I had a trauma as a child,
and when I sit still, that
trauma, really, you know, rears
its ugly head, how do we give
that person a toolbox to self
play,
Simone Heng: and I So firstly,
thank you so much for sharing.
Secondly, I understand I'm going
to predicate what I'm about to
say that, you know, some
resources are more expensive
than others, the walk is free.
But the one that really moves me
and I talk extensively about my
trauma in the book, the one that
really move the needle for me is
talk therapy. It doesn't work
for everyone. I'm a talker, get
I speak for a living. So I have
I have like the whole Crayola
box of colors for every word I
want to use, you know. And I
wanted to say the first time I
tried the sensory deprivation
pod, it was the same for me. But
now I'm so bad that I'm craving
to go back in it because I'm
like you there's you're now give
it to me. So the point of that
is be compassionate with
yourself. It takes time. And I
really want to talk to you as
someone who's a little bit older
than me, big sister. I'm turning
40 this year and my tolerance
level for BS has tanked. Did
that happen for you a bit later?
Do you think because of the
people pleasing? Yeah.
Dr. Mindy: Yeah. And so you
bring up a really interesting
point because and this is the
topic of my next book, which is
after 40 I call it the neuro
chemical armor starts to come
down. And the neuro chemical
armor looks like you start
losing first progesterone, and
with progesterone she brings
GABA and so GABA is a calmer and
progesterone is a commerce so as
she goes away all of a sudden
irritability people say the
wrong thing. I mean, this is
what where intersection of your
work and my work would be really
interesting to create like a
course or something like that
because you the if you were
already a lonely person, and you
already people already agitated
you, which I'm not saying that
to you. When progesterone goes
away and takes GABA with her.
You are easily agitated and
irritated and the littlest
things will just set you off.
But that's not the only one
estrogen as she starts to go
away in your 40s She actually
stimulates serotonin, dopamine,
acetylcholine, oxytocin, which
is the connection hormone, BDNF.
So when she goes away, she takes
her gang with her she I call it
the girl. Oh girl gang with her
so lit. Yeah, so as you're going
through your 40s you're losing
10 neuro chemicals. But here's
why work like yours and mine is
so important. If you understand
that at 40 You can start to do
To the work we're talking about
right now you can start to find
that connection to yourself. You
can start to work on your
traumas, you can clean up your
lifestyle, because if you do,
then it's incredible because I
can tell you at 54 I am like, I
don't give a fuck anymore about
what anybody thinks of me like I
am. And I say things sometimes I
blurt things out, and I'm like,
huh, I would have never said
that in my 30s. And that's the
neurochemical armor shedding.
And that's why these kinds of
conversations are so important
because we need to step into
another absolute this
Simone Heng: is like when I was
I remember learning about, you
know, Grumpy Old Men how, like,
be careful that teacher he's
cantankerous, and that was
because they were losing
testosterone, and no one ever
talks about it in terms of
women. And so I think that this
is going to be life changing.
And also, one of the things that
happened when we launched my
book was the Hay House. And I,
we did something to try and get
because I live in Asia, but more
people were Hay House is
normally historically been
dominant in markets like
Australia, where I grew up with
the US and the UK. And so a
whole bunch of new women came
onto my email list, but a large
grouping of them because we were
we were trying to solve the
loneliness issue, right? The way
I would get the replies the the
angry replies on my email list,
if I did a blast out, I knew
they were all to do with the
lonely brain. I got one the
other day from a guy, that's
that guy that said, I'm 50 this
is, by the way, these phrases
are great identifiers, if you're
lonely, okay. A guy writes back
on the email list and says,
Simone removed me off your email
list, I'm 50, I'm a lost cause,
no book or anything will ever
help me. And, and my, my phrase,
when I was cleaning my mom's
heart after she became
paralyzed, and I was alone was,
there is no other 29 year old
with a father in the grave and
mother in a wheelchair. And I
used that statement to stop me
going out. So if this is if this
is cleaning off, and a lot of
these people that we that we got
to know and added to the list,
we're in that menopausal
demographic, that age bracket.
And so now you're you're yes,
you're breathing life into
something that I've been seeing
on an incidental level through
the emails that are coming
through, like really agitated,
very agitated, but it that
totally makes sense. If your
hormones are going haywire, and
you're lonely, it's stacked
against you. Yeah.
Dr. Mindy: And this is why
conversations like this is
really important, because what
I'm trying to help women is to
feel seen and to feel heard. And
what typically happens to women
is that when we are feeling
lonely, or we're feeling like we
something is wrong with us, we
didn't do something right is
that we turn on ourselves, I do
believe that's a, that's a
typical difference between a man
and a woman, a man will turn
outwards and blame, you know,
it's due to his problem and and
push it away, whereas a woman
will internalize it. And I don't
know if you know this statistic,
but it's one that motivates all
my writing and all my teachings.
And that is that the most common
time for a woman to commit
suicide is between the decade or
the years between 45 and 55. And
I strongly feel because we have
this confluence of the
neurochemical armor coming down,
we have children leaving the
home, we have marriages ending,
we have lives changing. And
what's happening is we don't
understand ourselves. So we
assume something's wrong with
us. And what I love about what
you bring to the table in this
kind of self connection is
there's there's our opportunity,
there's our work is when we hit
that moment, and the brain isn't
performing and telling us the
things we want to hear. How do
we start to connect deeper to
ourselves? It's just like when
my when my therapist said, what
if you were your favorite
person? Like, I really sat with
that for a long time. Like, why
am I not my favorite person? If
I'm not my favorite person? Why
would I want somebody else to
hang out with me? What do I need
to do to become my favorite
person? And that question led me
to so much healing. So I'm
really it's important we give
language to this so that women
stop turning on themselves.
Absolutely. Let's add to that if
the
Simone Heng: woman has a
specific trauma, right, so it's,
yeah, that also feeds in again
to I'm just my particular
issues, too. It's for years up
until I graduated from weekly
therapy to once in a while
therapy was that everything I
did was because I'm a loathsome
person. It's because there's
something wrong with me added to
that layer that women do this
culturally, anyway. And I think
that stat about female suicide
It's so interesting, as I've
started to get older how there's
an element of invisibility, the
way that there wasn't in the
20s, and 30s. So this idea of
being seen the human need for
significance to have your
presence acknowledged, and all
of a sudden, you've given
everything to your children. So
right now, my friends are in the
stage where they have a second
kid. So two kids under six or
seven, they are run off this
seat, and they know and they'll
verbally say, to me, they're
like, so and we see you
galavanting around the world and
all this stuff, they're like,
Well, I'm not gonna be able to
do this for, like, 15 more years
minimum, and they know, and then
No, and so then you can imagine,
like, when you left the clinic,
like the vacuum that happens,
when that leaves, and with my
mom, it showed up, and there was
a chapter on this in the book,
it showed up with hoarding
disorder. So my dad passed away,
she became a widow, at the same
time, that I went to live
overseas, and my sister moved
out, and my sister had her own
partner. And what she did was
she filled the space in the
house, with things literally, to
fill the vacuum of loneliness.
It literally like when you see
on those TV shows, you know, we
shouldn't call it hoarders, it's
now in the manual of mental
health disorder. So it's
actually called hoarding
disorder. And individuals who
are lonely, this there seems to
be correlation between that and
and hoarding disorder as well.
So it's a form of actually,
yeah, the psychiatrists that
interviewed said, it's actually
related to OCD. So it's a form
of wanting control. So it's
like, if I have all this stuff,
and I have to clean one thing,
that means I'm obligated to
clean all of it, and then it's
too overwhelming. So it stays
there. Everything stays there.
So it, it's fascinating, but
it's also, these are real things
that are happening happening as
women become widows, or go
through divorces, or go through
that time in their life where
their children leave. It's a
huge vacuum. And
Dr. Mindy: society doesn't have
a very good reentry back into
society, post children post
divorce, I have a lot of friends
who have divorced and their kids
are up and out of the house now.
And these are some of the best
mothers I know, like they were
like the best. Like, I couldn't
even hold a candle to the type
of mother that they were and
they did such an incredible job.
And now their children's
launched and their marriage has
end ended. And now what do they
do? They how do they get back
into the workforce? Because
their work has been their child
for 20 some years? And how do
they start dating again, I had a
really interesting conversation
with a friend the other day
where she was talking about what
it feels like to think about
being intimate with a man again,
and like how that would feel.
exposing her body her 50 some
year old body to you know, what
does that feel like? So it's a
that's why I I'm so obsessed
with helping women through this
perimenopause and menopausal
transition, because
neurochemically things are
changing. But society doesn't
have a good structure to be able
to support us through no one's
talking about it. And we're,
like, a no one's talking about
it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean,
that was the one that the one my
friend who just recently said to
me, Oh, I think about that a lot
with like, going back out to
dating again, like, what my body
feels like, and, and my aging
body and how sexy it is. And my
brain, you know, as a woman
who's been married forever, was
like, oh my god, I never even
think about that. But that's
because I've been with the same
man for almost 30 years. So it's
really interesting that when we
vocalize that, and then it's
there's something about just
releasing it and talking about
it and coming up with collective
solutions around it, which is
why I wanted to start this
conversation with this self
connection, because my thought
would be in that scenario, your
work becomes self connection.
Like that becomes if you are
resonating with what we're
saying, your work becomes fall
in love with yourself. And that
needs to be the first step into
a more connected life. And you
would you
Simone Heng: guys could not
agree more. And I want to say I
just number one, be
compassionate to yourself. But
number two, expect what Stephen
Bartlett calls the no man's land
when you start a business but
it's the same with self
connection. The first six to 12
months when you start it, you're
going to feel like you've
churned the porridge in one
direction. And now and so the
first six to 12 months will be
messy, but stick with it.
Because after when you when you
start to break down and learn
who you are and have tools to
connect with yourself on almost
like an on demand level. Like my
therapist taught me anytime that
I'm feeling triggered, inflamed,
like or just a little bit down.
What are the healthy thing means
that you can go to to lift your
moods. I mean, this is the most
simple tool. But if you've been
raising kids for 30 years with
when would you even get time to
think about right? You're not
got time to listen to a two hour
podcast to get that one nugget
to then you know you like, I'm
not talking about your podcast
optimally I'm talk about other
people's, you know, you're on
the school run Oh for 15 years,
when a us like, you know, people
are in the eye right? I can do
like the best Auntie, I ride
with them and my girlfriend's my
nieces in the back like man,
man, man, man, I mean, you can't
listen to a podcast, I forget
it. So if by luck, we've been
able to pierce through the, you
know, the post marriage kids
part of your journey, and you do
get this nugget now that you
have time to listen to stuff, be
compassionate. And that process
of finding that thing that lifts
you when you are in a place of
emotional growth, during that
first six to 12 months can be
game changing? Like, is it a is
it a bulking causing a dog is
that the perfect cup of coffee
in your favorite cafe, even if
you're alone, where you get to
look at and watch people on the
street, just find a toolbox two
to three things. And I still use
them to this day, I was just in
Perth visiting my family. It's
the ground zero of my trauma.
And my mom for the first time
couldn't say my name. So she
recognizes me. But the diseases
have stopped her from you know,
I'm like mama, who is this and
she can't get the words out. I
feel better now. But you can
imagine that time I do the Asian
thing. And I keep it strong. Oh
yeah. Because she's not
cognitive. So it will freak her
out if she sees me like this,
and I contain it. But I know
within the next 24 hours after
that, when I've been triggered,
I need to be doing a walk, you
know, a walk in nature, my
favorite meal, something that is
just going to lift me. And give
me a moment to process what I've
been through in that moment. I
think it's really important.
It's really important.
Dr. Mindy: Yeah, and I hope
people are feeling hurt in this
and understanding that there are
ways out and we and that we all
experience it. I think on the
other side of this conversation
that's really interesting is
that a lot of times, we pick
friendships and connections that
are situational. And when in
parenthood, this really happens
because I used to call it I used
to call it mommy dating, I would
tell my husband, I'm like, I
need some mommy friends, I'm
going to the park at with my our
kids, and I'm going to go mommy
dating and find a mom that's got
kids the same age as our kids.
And there's a constant like
looking for a connection of
somebody who's in that same time
of life, then you find that
connection. And then as you grow
and things change, you realize
that they were kind of a
situational person, like they
were sort of not everybody and I
some of my closest friends who
we've raised our kids together,
I just want to say they may be
listening to this podcast, and
not you just so they know. But
there are there are certain
friendships that I as, as our
kids grew, I had to make a
conscious moment and say, You
know what, that was a
situational friend that wasn't a
soul filling friend. And it was
a great friend at a great time
of great time of my life, but
it's not the person that's going
to make me feel connected. So I
think a lot of women are going
through that. And it leaves me
with this question to you, which
is, how do you know a connection
is should be an intimate
connection? Like how is somebody
worthy of coming in to your
intimate and how
Simone Heng: they worthy of your
vulnerability is Brene Brown
says I love this question. So
the big researchers on this say
it it firstly in numbers about
five. So don't let social media
fool you that your friends list
is 1000 people, okay? It's five.
And they're characterized
normally by the person, you can
call in an existential crisis,
somebody that you would be able
to ask for money if you're in a
bind, someone who would bring
you to the hospital if you were
ill, and you needed to call
them. Now, the problem is one in
three Americans feel they don't
have these people, right? We
don't have the stat now we don't
have the stats for the rest of
the world. But for me the
ResearchGate geek I'm
approximating America, you're
not alone. This is not this is a
condition of identity. This is
not just North America, but
that's you think about who's in
your life where there's that
depth. I'm telling you, it's not
many, so many people. So yeah,
yeah, it's not many people.
Dr. Mindy: So what do you do if
you don't have that? What if you
like listening to this and
you're like, Yeah, I don't have
that like that.
Simone Heng: So you start off
with the gateway to deeper
connection, which I call micro
connections. Okay, so these are
those. This was the mum in the
school yard, where you stood
over the fence at Sports Day,
and you both watch the kids run
together, and she makes a really
cool, funny comment, and you're
like, you're cool, like, you
know, or she says that male
teacher there, don't you think
he's pretty fit? Don't you think
he's pretty hot, and you just
love and you and you begin that
now, that should i and that
might not be situational. But
that is a great place to start.
And there's a lot of uninformed
stuff on Instagram about small
talk. And, you know, we don't
want to but what we know now,
because Gen Z doesn't have small
talk skills, which is why
they're so lonely. We need this
as the vehicle to get deeper, if
you can't build rapport, you're,
you're going to be really hard,
hard pressed to build something
deeper. And then what happens is
something called social
penetration theory. And that is
because of that cave person
wiring us to connect, if you
just put two humans who have
rapport established, so you like
each other, you know, it's not
the mum at the playground, you'd
want to be friends with, like
you, you have report, you will
naturally disclose like a pink
like a ping pong match a tennis
match. You know, you tell a
story about your life, she'll be
wired to tell a story about her
life, and it will naturally go.
This is how we are actually
wired as humans to build
connection. We are not wired to
do this all day long to get to
now can I tell you my
existential crisis and cried on
the phone to you? It doesn't.
There is some mediation of this,
but this is not the destination.
This is the Weigh Station. And
we've got to keep that top of
you know, top of mind. Right
now, I want to talk about the
kampong
Dr. Mindy: like approach to to
conversations, because I have
said this so many times, that if
I sit with somebody who doesn't
understand a conversation is
like playing ping pong. I asked
you I make a comment. You asked
me you make a comment. If I'm
with somebody who doesn't get
that, and I've used that exact
thing before. I'm like, it's
like a ping pong game. You're
just constantly going, that's to
me the richest conversations,
but I'm out like it. Like I've
gone to lunches before, like
with friends. And I for two
hours. And I have left and
realize they didn't ask me one
thing about me. And in those
moments, I'm like, I'm out.
Because I want somebody where
there is a give and take where
there's this reciprocity, where
I you know, I'm vulnerable,
you're vulnerable. And that is,
is quality connection. And if
I'm the only one being
vulnerable, and you're not being
vulnerable, we got a problem or
if or vice versa. So thank you
for saying the ping pong,
because I feel like it's like
conversation and connection
shouldn't be like clarias
There's so
Simone Heng: many people today
that has a particularly Gen Z
who've never felt that because
everything is mediated by this.
And when you have 24 hours to
formulate a response, how can
you ping pong? You're like,
yeah, right. But I would say
just found out by credible
Author David Brooks, who just
wrote a book called How to know
people. Do you know that only
1/3 of the population ask
questions. That's
Dr. Mindy: crazy. I so I trained
so many doctors in my office, I
think in you know, the 25 years
I was in practice, I had like 25
doctors come in that I trained.
And the number one thing I would
always say is that if you want
to make somebody feel good, like
when a new patient comes in, and
you want to create rapport, how
you create rapport, is you ask
them questions about themselves,
because everybody likes to talk
about themselves. So the fact
that people don't know that, but
we live
Simone Heng: in quite a
narcissistic world and my dad
was an immigrant shopkeeper. So
everything I learned really to
connect was watching him in the
back of them cubicle serve
these, you know, the European,
obviously, customers, people
that he had to build rapport
with that not necessarily they
came from the same context. And
I would watch him ask those
questions, and it just became
why. So I think what we can take
away from this is don't think
you're being offensive. If
you're naturally curious, as
long as the questions you're
asking around our basic
physiological needs, and and
Maslow had the pyramid, so if
you're looking at clothing,
food, water, shelter, and you
know, these are very innocuous
questions in a very polarized
triggered world right now,
that's the pretty same you, you
know, people who, you know, talk
about clothing, people are like,
Oh, you have a pixie cut. I've,
I've always wanted to have a
piece cut. Have you found it's
hard to style? I mean, you're
not gonna send anyone with this.
These are great entry level
rapport building questions that
multiple human connectors, like
a doctor maybe do naturally. But
we now have to teach the
population and that's why I do
the work that I do. And I'm on
the tick tock, and I'm on the
LinkedIn and I'm doing this
well. I reckon it's our next
existential crisis after or
climate change, we survive
climate change this for me,
because of how, what depth how
it damages our health,
loneliness, and therefore the
cost of government? Yeah, this
is why all the governments are
mobilizing on this. And with AI,
there's a whole bunch of other
implications that probably we
don't have time to talk about
today. But where where we can
see things are projected to
going, it's really important
that people learn human
connection skills. So
Dr. Mindy: that actually leads
me to a question I had, which is
the connection we're making on
social media is that is that is
that creating, like, like, I
have positive connections on
social media, like I send funny
reels, I like have little
splashes of some of my favorite
people that I will connect with,
is that a real action I,
Simone Heng: we still get some
feel good hormones from social
media, it's just not the same
quoter of oxytocin, dopamine
that we get from that in person
in real life connection. So if
we're looking at a hybrid or
remote working society, where
you're getting lower quarter of
touch, and touch is a massive
cells to pain in the body makes
us more resilient, all these
other things. So imagine within
a year versus pre pandemic, how
much less in real life
connection we're having. And
then let's add to that
substituting with digital. It's
not a solution. It's a use, it's
a use in tandem with, but it
doesn't mean that they're not
real, if you end up meeting with
those people, or, like you, and
I live on the other side of the
world, and we met in real life,
but we also so we established
trust in real life. Like I was
like, Okay, Dr. Mindy is legit.
It's amazing. I was like she's
like, yes. And and then, you
know, we have a bit of things in
the DM. But this has now led to
a deeper conversation. So I
absolutely think it can be Yes,
used incredibly, what, for
example, my mum was ill to be
able to video with her would
have been able to do that 20
years ago, I lived in four
countries before the age of 30.
So I've got some of my intimate
connections in Switzerland and
Dubai. And so it allows us to
have video chat. But it's not a
substitute for it doesn't mean
at all, that they're not real.
And I think they are the those
connections that you are making
online, where you're having the
real voice notes in the in the
DM, direct message on Instagram,
they are a huge blessing of this
technology. Like I'm not anti
tech at all, but I think we need
boundaries. And the only way we
get boundaries is self
connection is the only way
you're gonna know it's too much
time online, it comes back to
that, yes.
Dr. Mindy: Well, if you if you
don't feel good about yourself,
you're not going to want to
connect with people in real
life. So which leads me to my
next question, because I have a
lot of people that I have
different ways I connect with
them, I can I'll text them, I'll
message them on Instagram, you
know, maybe I'll have a phone
call with them or a zoom call
with them. And then there
becomes a point where my brain
goes, I care about you so much
that I need to see you in person
now. And I have a couple of
people like that in my life
right now that I actually I love
so much. And I've I've actually
never met them in real life. And
I'm actually going through and
like making sure that each one
of these people, I'm actually
either going to their area or
finding out when we're in the
same area because I have decided
that the ultimate form of
satisfaction for me when it
comes to human connection is in
person. And that all the other
pieces of connection are nice,
and they're fun, but they're not
really deepening that
relationship I want with some of
the amazing people in my life.
And this has become so um, this
might be the 54 year old brain
and the empty nester and I just
closed my, my but my clinic but
I've gotten so clear on this
that I'm trying to open my
schedule up so that I have space
and time to go see these people
because many of my closest
friends don't live in my area.
And so I want to make sure we go
and have you know time together
because they mean something to
me. And that's a new realization
that I just had that that is in
person is the most satisfying.
Simone Heng: fax it up. So they
say digital connection. It is a
form of connection but is the
junk food version of connection.
It tastes good. It's immediate,
it's accessible, but it doesn't
satiate us chemically, the way
the in person stuff. So that's
why it feels so good. Yeah,
amazing.
Dr. Mindy: Amazing. So, when I
hear us talk about how the
science backs that up, there's
this part of me that's like,
social media, our phones, zoom,
it has all become a disconnector
like We think it's connecting
us. But there are so many times,
I would go see a friend, but I
get lazy. And I'm like, I'm just
going to text her. And and I
don't take always take that
extra step, to clear my schedule
to make sure I can see this
person. So this has been a new
awareness for me. So for those
people listening, what I want to
you to really emphasize that you
said, is the ultimate way to get
the health benefit of connection
is in person. And what I think
would be helpful as a society
right now, is if we all stop
being like, I'm so busy, I'm so
busy, I'm so busy, I've got
things to do, and that we
stopped and prioritized human
connection with the people we
loved. And if we did that, will
give me paint a picture for me,
what do you think the world
would look like? Like? How would
that change? What would that
change? And how would that
create a society that we've
never seen? It's already
happening
Simone Heng: with some young
kids in Amsterdam that created
something called offline events.
And they charge like, five
euros, and they choose beautiful
cafes around the city. And
people go, they bring whatever
activity, they're doing a book,
knitting, whatever, and they go,
and they just sit without their
phones for two to three hours.
And they they're doing stuff,
but they're also connecting with
each other at the same time. So
it becomes like the old salons,
you know, where there used to be
conversation salons, hundreds of
years, like 150 years ago in
Paris, where people would engage
over conversation. Without being
mediated by that thing, I think
we're seeing a huge turn away in
the younger generation because
of the loneliness issue. And
then knowing it's to do with
this device that they've grown
up with, I I would love to see a
world where we came together, do
you know our cities used to be
planned once we stopped being
nomadic around the central
Piazza or the mosque or the
church or what right, and so we
go to the market square on the
weekend, and we would buy things
from the market to get some
cities to have this, I live in
Singapore not so much. Here we
have the opposite, you know, you
know where you said you actually
because of where you live, have
to get in the car and go
somewhere. I live in a place
with really high population
density where we have another
problem. And this might resonate
to some people listening when
you're surrounded by people,
right? But it doesn't mean
you're in connection with
people. So you're siloed we're
alone, together. So the idea
would be that we are together
together. So people have seen
people asking questions of each
other, there is a witty repartee
going on. And we are sharing
experiences together in real
life in person. We're not
performing on this. And I think
the vision and the group of
researchers that helped to
inform my work, we all know each
other. And when we go we got
together at Harvard last year in
October, they had a big
symposium, go to New York to be
with them soon in May again, and
when we have our salon and our
conversation in between the
sessions, that's what it's
around and changing the
architecture of our physical
spaces to aid connection as well
the way our offices are built,
and that's the dream. That's the
dream. You
Dr. Mindy: know, my kids are 24
and 21 and neither of them are
on social media. And and when I
text my 24 year old four year
old when I text her it's so and
I know people will be like well
that's an answer. She's giving a
mom but it's not she'll tell me
Oh my My phone died. Yeah, so
sorry. Like I didn't couldn't
get back to and I've watched her
she just is not addicted to her
phone. And I don't know why. And
it's not just unique to them. I
do think they're their friend
group like are starting to
they're so over social media.
And they're so over the the
trauma that it was to be raised
in a culture that had that at
the forefront that they many of
them are starting to do it
different. And I blades really
imply
Simone Heng: generation I think
even though Millennials were not
coming up as the loneliest in
the stats, if I look at the way
in my 20s I was addicted to and
proliferating that sort of
performative content, especially
because I was in the in the
media industry at that time as
well. So it was deeply
encouraged that you knew how to
use this. I think only it's been
I think it's also turning 40
This year, I'll actually turn my
phone off for the first time in
my entire adult life. I will
just turn the whole thing off
and that I never thought I never
thought I would get that meeting
Like honestly, these people know
that I'm so connected on it and
it feels wonderful. Feels good.
Yeah.
Dr. Mindy: Amazing. Amazing.
Well, thank you for this
conversation. I really I just
I've been thinking because of
the hormone oxy. her son and I
think I told you this when we
saw each other New York,
oxytocin when it when it comes
on the scene, it calms cortisol.
And when you calm cortisol, you
become more insulin sensitive.
And when you're more insulin
sensitive, you balance all your
sex hormones. So I have spent so
much of my career teaching
insulin sensitivity, teaching
sex hormone balancing, and one
of the conversations I don't
have enough and I'm wanting to
have more of his don't forget
oxytocin, because she is the
master hormone. And if you bring
oxytocin in, you change all the
all the other hormones. And
oxytocin is half life, I don't
know if you know, this is only
two to three minutes, which
means you have to keep getting
more and more and more. So the
best thing you could do for your
Hormonal Health is actually like
wake up in the morning and think
about how many oxytocin hits,
you're gonna get that day. And
if you did, that, all your
dieting that you've been trying
to do, all the weight loss
techniques would work better, or
your sleep would be better you
your bet you would balance you
wouldn't need as many of the bio
identical hormonal creams like
and patches, because but until
we prioritize oxytocin, we are
going to continue to be in
hormone dysregulation. So and
the main way to get oxytocin is
through connection. So your work
is incredible. So keep keep
shouting. So
Simone Heng: thank you so much
for thank you so much for having
me. Can I just add something
about? They did a very
breakthrough study at Virginia
University that shows that high
quality human touch stops the
pain receptors in the brain from
lighting up, okay, Dr. James
COVID, this so if you are trying
to lose weight, but you have an
injury, that is stopping you
from doing the exercise or
anything around the well being,
understand that high quality,
that means a human connection,
you trust time with that person,
touch with that person helps to
mitigate that pain as well. So
that's also going to help your
wellness journey.
Dr. Mindy: Amazing. Oh, I love
that. I love that that worth
worth stating. So thank you.
Okay, here's my last question.
And that is, what does health
mean to you? Like, what is your
definition of health? And do you
have a health goal that you are
working towards the health goal
Simone Heng: is to not have the
same outcome as my parents, both
of them and that is motivating
when you know your genetics and
I've had all the testing done
all of those things. And I feel
very blessed to not have the
same condition as my mum. And so
I guess then my health goal is
really to inhabit this body
healthily for as long as I can.
Health means to me that I'm able
to do all of the things that I
want to do and show up for all
of the people who need me in a
non agitato state oh my god, I
Dr. Mindy: love editado I hope
you feel like eautiful was so
beautiful. That's amazing. Well
Simone, thank you so much. I
mean this for my own soul and my
own you know, understanding of
who I am and how I want to show
up in the world this was really
incredible so and I know my
audience will feel the same so
keep keeps keep singing your
your cars from the rooftops and
get working on that self
connection book because I think
we really need it. It is
definitely a skill that I've
just been finding. So few know
how to do so I appreciate you
bringing it to the surface.
Thank you so much for joining me
in today's episode. I love
bringing thoughtful discussions
about all things health to you.
If you enjoyed it, we'd love to
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