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Diagnosed with Complex Trauma and a Dissociative Disorder, Emma and her system share what they learn along the way about complex trauma, dissociation (CPTSD, OSDD, DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality), etc.), and mental health. Educational, supportive, inclusive, and inspiring, System Speak documents her healing journey through the best and worst of life in recovery through insights, conversations, and collaborations.
Over: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Hi. So it's Sunday morning, and we are not at home. The snow and ice has come again, like, still. Like, you guys, I don't mean to be a big old baby about this, but I am being a big old baby about this. Like, where we lived, when we lived here before, I mean, like, growing up in Oklahoma, like, they don't have winter.
Speaker 1:I mean, it gets cold. Like, some days are colder than others, and Oklahoma always has a terrible wind, and that's almost colder than anything else. And every once in a while, there'll be, like, some freak winter storm, like, maybe every five or ten years. And on the rare occasions that it does snow, it's like a light dusting that's gone by afternoon. Okay?
Speaker 1:So you need to understand that this is part of the weather drama for us is that our winters that we have known our whole life mostly I mean, not entirely. Well, not like I have an inventory of winter experiences, but, like, my, like, my adult life that I can remember did not have winter in it. Not, like, for real. Like, one time there was a storm and we had snow for maybe two or three days, and one time there was a storm where there was ice for a couple weeks. But, like, this whole thing of where we live now in Kansas City, where this vortex or whatever it's called, has, like, drowned us in ice and snow since October, you guys.
Speaker 1:Like like, we can't even almost get through the yard. Like, now when we walk in our yard, we are walking on top of the snow and ice because there's so many layers of snow and ice packed down. It's crazy. The only reason we can get our cars in and out the driveway is because we've kept shoveling it. Like, here's our workout for the day.
Speaker 1:Except now it's February. So I'm like, kids, go get the shovels and shovel our driveway for us because it does not go away. It's crazy. Winter, that's a thing. Apparently, in the northern lands, like actual like, we are talking Narnia level winter.
Speaker 1:Like, the ice queen is out and about, and I don't think it's me. But for some reason, like, global warming, whatever, something I don't know. Up north, they have legit winters. And, like, everything shuts down long enough for the snowplows to get through. And then everything just opens back up.
Speaker 1:Like, here, everything shuts down if maybe it will snow tomorrow. Like but in Kansas City, they're like, oh, no. For twelve hours, everyone is banned from the roads, and then you have to go to work and school and return to your life even though we have lost five trucks off the roads in the last whatever day. Like, it's insane. So, anyway, because we go to therapy four hours away, where we go to therapy is south of us.
Speaker 1:And so if we can get south of the vortex or whatever, Grandma Nina is, like, causing all the right all the ice and snow. Like, if we can get south of it, then it's actually gorgeous. So, like, yesterday, we left home. Well, okay. So the roads were supposed to be terrible today, and they were gonna actually they, like, they actually shut down the roads.
Speaker 1:Like, you cannot drive on them, which means if they say they're gonna do that, like, that's your warning. And this is like a cultural thing. I didn't even know that weather could be cultural, but it's completely different up there. Like, I never ever in my life have watched the weather or used the weather apps on my phone. Like, ever.
Speaker 1:Because in Oklahoma, the only thing we have to deal with are tornadoes. And when you grow up in Oklahoma, like, that doesn't even matter. Like, you just go outside and you watch the tornado come, and then you go inside and then come back out and watch what the tornado did. Like, We're not even afraid of tornadoes anymore. So how's that for some PTSD?
Speaker 1:We actually could tell some seriously cool tornado stories, but that's not what I'm talking about right now. What I'm talking about is winter. And so for the first time in my life, we are actually having to be present enough in time to look at the weather apps and pay attention to what's actually happening with the weather because if we don't, we get stuck. And so when winter first started, we did not look at the weather or the apps, and it would snow. And we thought, oh, well, that's okay because it'll be gone by afternoon.
Speaker 1:No. False. In Kansas, when it snows, the snow stays and it does not go away. And so we missed, like, weeks and weeks and weeks of therapy because we kept getting caught in the snow and the ice and could not get down. So as many of you know who have struggled to find a therapist or are in between therapists because it's really hard to find a good one, much less one worth, like, investing in who will also invest in you.
Speaker 1:Like, I know, I know, I know, I know how hard that is. So I do not at all mean any disrespect to those of you in that season because we have been there, and it's awful. But now we have, like, a legit real therapist who is amazing and helping. And the scary thing investing in that means that when we don't get to see her, like, we completely fall apart. Like, it's bad.
Speaker 1:It's really bad. Like, threat level midnight bad. Like, it's it's bad. Okay. So, like, we're trying to function.
Speaker 1:We've made a lot of progress. We've come a long way either in my imagination or she's just really good at coaching me into thinking that. But we can't miss therapy, you guys. Like, for one thing, we just don't function well when we don't get to see her because she's magical. And so we cannot not see her.
Speaker 1:Like, it is the best thing that's happened to us in years and years and years and decades, decades, our entire life. Like, seriously, I'm so grateful. Like, a gift from God. And I mean that most respectfully in the Molly context like she just talked about, not dissing Molly. But, anyway, seriously, so good for us.
Speaker 1:But the other thing is is that, like, therapy stretches out. And, like, if we wanna be well and functioning and heal and be better, therapy takes forever. And so anytime you miss a session, then it's like, that's just more time tacked on to the end of it, like skipping some kind of loan payment or something. But the other thing is when you're working on therapy, like, legit hard, then it makes it harder to function. So, like, I'm not saying we need our therapist.
Speaker 1:Like, we're so needy that we can't even function, except that is what I'm saying. But we function just fine for a long time without the therapist. It's not that. It's that because we're doing this work and engaged with her, having a break between sessions processing things or to keep working on things or to practice things, like, that's good pacing even though sometimes even that feels too hard or too long. Right?
Speaker 1:But to miss sessions, then it's like it goes too far, and it's like you fall into this abyss where you now like, there's too much processing, and you can't hold on to now time, and it gets way scary way fast. Does that make sense? So because of that, now we have to watch the weather apps because we can't miss therapy. Oh my goodness. We cannot miss therapy.
Speaker 1:We either need to be in therapy or not in therapy. And finally, finally, finally, we are actually in legit therapy and trying. I don't know if we're doing it right or not. Like, seriously, I have no idea. Like, how do you know if you're doing therapy right?
Speaker 1:But we're feeling better and making progress. So, like, that's actually something she asked last week about if therapy is helping and how we know it. And so it's something I've been thinking about. And I can think of things like we're not a walking panic attack all the time, and we sleep more. Like, we still have nightmares, but not all the time every night.
Speaker 1:When we do have them, they're worse, though. How is that a thing? Most of the time, we're nicer to the children inside and out, I guess. Like, we're rescuing people inside. Right?
Speaker 1:Does that count? We're learning how to communicate and work together. And like Molly said this weekend out loud in front of everybody that we have been abused when we were little. Like, no details, obviously, but that's a big deal for us to disclose that. And, also, I wasn't sure I wanted that.
Speaker 1:Or if she was gonna do it, I'm not sure she should have said it on the podcast. I don't know. It feels like crossing streams a little bit, you know, like in Star Wars with their things or Ghostbusters or something. Like, you shouldn't I don't know. You shouldn't cross streams.
Speaker 1:So that feels a little less safe. Like, if I'm the one in charge of the podcast and I'm supposed to be keeping it safe, then people can't be talking about so much information that we just disclose everything to the whole world. I don't know. I'm I'm gonna have bring that up in a meeting. But, anyway, we can't miss therapy.
Speaker 1:Yesterday, they said on the weather that this snow and ice was coming again. And so they said it was gonna start at midnight, but it was gonna stay above freezing. So we thought about leaving early just in case, but we're like, no. Because it's, like, science accurate. Like, I remember people saying things a long time ago about how the weathermen never know what they're talking about.
Speaker 1:Now the weathermen are like, it's going to snow at 02:07PM, and it will be four and a half inches. Like and it's right. It's creepy. Right? And so they've been really accurate.
Speaker 1:Like, however science is in weather now that they can actually know these things, it works. And so, like, they said it's gonna start snowing at midnight, but won't really be too much until afternoon today or whatever. Except then they sent out an alert, like, on our phones, like tornadoes in Oklahoma, except in Kansas, it's about snow. And it said, oh, no. No.
Speaker 1:Actually, the snow is gonna start now. And then I looked out the window and three seconds. One, two, three, bam. Seriously, it was like a countdown. Three, two, one, and snow.
Speaker 1:And it started. And the problem was yesterday, it rained all day because for the first time, it was above freezing. And so this whole layer of rain just poured all over the snow and ice, and then it started freezing. And we were like, oh, no. You didn't.
Speaker 1:Because we have therapy on Monday. So if it's gonna ice on Sunday, I can't get to therapy on Monday, which meant we had to leave on Saturday at the last minute with, like, no notice, like, throw things in a bag. You don't even have time to fight over who's gonna wear what to therapy and whatever. And so at the last minute, like at 08:00 at night, seriously, we threw stuff in a bag and got in the car. We had to bring one of our sons with us because we have a son with autism, but our youngest son also is on the spectrum.
Speaker 1:And he has his official getting his diagnosis results, whatever that's all about, like, Monday at the doctor. So we had to bring him too. So we had to drive our son, and he's the talking one. You think I talk a lot? Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:This child. I, no kidding, drove, like, to the edge of town and was ready to get on the interstate and then turned around and called the husband. And I was like, oh, no. For the love of all that is holy, get the child an iPad. I don't care about screen time.
Speaker 1:I have to drive four hours in the car with this child. I mean, oh, like, we never never our kids do not have phones. They have an iPad, but it is I mean, like, the family has an iPad, but we rarely, rarely use it. So, like, for example, we had to bring the triplets with us to therapy when the husband came, and why they were with us is a whole different story, but we wanted to take them to this cool playground. Like, they had earned that.
Speaker 1:But that meant they had to go with us to the appointment. But, obviously, we cannot talk about therapy things in front of the children. That's just not appropriate. And so during our appointment, while the husband was with us, they got to watch a movie on the iPad for, like, that hour and a half. It never happens.
Speaker 1:So, of course, they were, like, glued to it because they were so excited to have screen time because we don't let them have screen time. But let me tell you, when you have this particular child with you by yourself for four hours in the car, you will let him have screen time. Oh my goodness. It was terrible. I mean, it was delightful and wonderful one on one time.
Speaker 1:No. It was terrible. I'm just saying. I maybe failed parenthood, and so we spent this morning having a lovely and engaging time together, but it's hard. So we are here early, a whole, like, thirty six hours early to therapy.
Speaker 1:Who does that? Except that, obviously, it's not time for therapy. So we are at the husband's parents' house, which is in the same town where our post office box is, and we have mail that we are gonna share with you. But let me back up first. This means we are staying with the in laws, which is probably something I'm not allowed to talk about on the podcast.
Speaker 1:So I'll skip that. But part of staying with the in laws means that when we went to church with them this morning, there are different triggers there. But, also, we used to live here, like, a long time ago. And well, not a long time ago. I mean, like, as an adult.
Speaker 1:I mean, we used to live here after we were married. Okay. And so, like, everyone here knows us because of the husband and his parents, which means, like, everyone is so excited. Like, you're here in town because she told everybody. We can't even hide.
Speaker 1:Like, what I would like to do is, here, child, go have one on one time with your grandparents, why there aren't five siblings to fight over them. Enjoy, and then go back to the back room and, like, shut the door and hide in the closet and draw stuff. That would be my ideal thirty six hours until therapy. But, no, she told everyone we're here, so people keep coming to see us. People keep calling to see if we wanna go out.
Speaker 1:No, guys. You don't understand. We don't have friends. Now to my friend Megan's feelings, like, no. No.
Speaker 1:No. No. I'm not trying to hurt anybody's feelings. I'm saying, it's hard to have friends. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Like, we are not good at being a friend. Part of that is trauma, part of that is attachment, and part of it is we're just not that extroverted. And I know that sounds crazy because it's a podcast where there is self disclosure spewing out into the universe. But you know what? I'm doing that from my car, and people don't have to talk to me while I do it.
Speaker 1:Because people it's people. It's just hard for us. For a thousand reasons, it's hard. And it's very difficult when you add DID into the mix, obviously. And so making friends and having friends is really, really hard.
Speaker 1:That said, I kind of would like friends. I mean, who doesn't want to have friends? I mean, it's a philosophical thing, though. Like, I would like to have a friend thinking, oh, I have a friend. Meaning, like, a safe person in the world who would not be super intrusive but could be like all Anne of Green Gables.
Speaker 1:Like, let me flash my light, and you know that I'm having conversation. Or we could go meet in the meadow and make up stories or laugh or share or have some tea that actually is alcohol. No. I'm just kidding. Remember that when that happens in Anne of Green Gables with the cordial?
Speaker 1:That's so funny. Old school. Okay. Anyway, like, to have a safe person that you could talk to or share, or maybe maybe someday I could even be a decent person to someone else instead of just, like, all needy or avoidant. Like, there's no middle ground or I push you away, and I don't mean to.
Speaker 1:It's just really hard, and I don't know how to regulate all that. This is why we're in therapy because of stuff like this. Right? So I don't I don't need, like, people showing up at my house. I don't need people trying to call me.
Speaker 1:Also, we're deaf, and you've known that for years, so stop trying to call me. Like, what's wrong with you? I don't need people who want to, like, text me all the time because they don't know how to talk in real life or people who just text me because they're bored. Like, social interaction through technology can be a beneficial thing in its context or over distance or for quick reassuring messages, but that is not a relationship, people. But, also, if I don't let you come over to my house and I don't leave my house to talk to you, I don't know how we're supposed to have a relationship.
Speaker 1:So I get it's on me too. It's my fault too. We're terrible at this. But, also, mostly, it's about safety and connection.
Speaker 1:Like, who is safe enough to connect connection. Like, who is safe enough to connect with, and how do you know? That may be, like, the most basic level of any trauma or trust issue as anything. Because no matter what kind of trauma you've had or what happened to you or what ways you were neglected or whatever, it all comes down to, like, a safety violation, a violation of safety. So if you don't feel safe, it's really hard to trust. And if you haven't been in the safe place or in safe relationships, it's really hard to trust again.
Speaker 1:So opening up and risking that is, like, a big deal and terrifying and sometimes stupid. Like, don't don't ugh. Like, that's what it feels like. Like, what if this is the wrong person, or this is the one who hurts me again, or why would I put myself through that again? Or when we live in all these small towns like in Oklahoma, then not only do you get screwed over, but it's all, like, completely public, and it's just embarrassing.
Speaker 1:Embarrassing. Like, ugh, small towns. You can have a love hate relationship with small towns. I would like to live in the country outside of a small town so that I could go do the small town y cool things, but also be like the weird hermit out in the country. Where?
Speaker 1:The other piece of it is that our birthday was this week, and so, like, people tried extra hard, except they did it like, who's trying because they really care about you, and who's trying just because it showed up on their Facebook feed, and who's like, I don't know. I'm not very gracious or grateful. I I don't wanna be a terrible person. I just I don't wanna connect with people who aren't authentic or aren't sincere. And I don't mean to test that or be so hard on the people who are trying, but it's a really scary thing.
Speaker 1:And I don't know how to get past it except, you know, therapy. So in therapy, even opening up is a hard thing. Like, I myself just got busted, and I've been watching therapy since, like, November maybe, but never talked to her directly. I don't mean I can see everything, and I don't mean I can hear everything, but I can catch some pieces, and I can catch some things. And I have to clarify something about this because my friend, Julie, is all over me because I said in a podcast when I was talking to her about me being a placeholder.
Speaker 1:I don't know what she thought I meant by that, but I did not mean to disrespect myself by saying that. And I don't mean that I'm a placeholder. Like, hello. I'm a new altar. My name is Sasha, and I'm gonna do a podcast now, and that is all I'm allowed to do, and I'm not important.
Speaker 1:I didn't mean that in a disrespectful to myself kind of way. I meant if we are going to trust the therapist and the husband is gonna know about DID, then we need space to be able to watch that happen and watch it play out and know that it's okay. So I don't know how to explain how new alters happens, and I don't know how to explain what it's like being a new alter. And I don't know why some new alters know nothing like Emma when she married the husband or how some alters know some things like me when I started the podcast. I don't know how it works.
Speaker 1:I'm not the boss in here, and I am not the expert on DID. I just know us. And when I said I was like a placeholder, what I meant was instead of, like, running away, we're gonna stay here in place and just hold this space. So, like, we go to therapy, and I talk about it on the podcast. We talked with the husband about DID, and I talk about it on the podcast.
Speaker 1:There are things we can write in the notebook, and I can process it. How can I put it together so that therapy can really work? Or, like, if you're gonna take a leap of faith and trust somebody, you have to have that board to step on. So, you know, like in Indiana Jones where he has to go to get the holy grail to rescue his father. Right?
Speaker 1:And he gets the part about the leap of faith, and it looks like it's just a big cavern. And if he steps out off of that ledge, he's gonna fall. Except that when he throws the rocks, you can see it's an optical illusion, and there's actually that path that goes straight across. He just had to trust it that it was there. My therapist is there.
Speaker 1:She is that ledge, and I know that she is. Like, I have made it that far, and it's starting to sink through in us as a system. But I've made it that far to believe that our therapist like, I can step out on her. Like, we are trying to take that step and that leap of faith, and it's terrifying. She might even be.
Speaker 1:Well, no. Here's the thing. I'm gonna stay with the Indiana Jones analogy because this totally works. Here's the thing. What I know what I know so far, okay, is that the things the therapist has taught me are like the rocks, and I can throw the rocks out, and it helps me see the path is more visible and be less scared about stepping out.
Speaker 1:Does that make sense? If you know the movie, you know what I'm talking about. And I have made it even now, like, more recently, I think and we've been in her, like, with a therapist for, like, a year. Okay? We've been with her long enough now.
Speaker 1:Like, I feel like we spent the whole year learning how to throw rocks. Like, scatter the rocks out there on that ledge. And oh my goodness. I'm totally answering the question about how I know therapy is working. Oh, this is like a breakthrough in my head.
Speaker 1:Like, I felt it in my brain. And I know your brain can't feel, but mine does. I swear. Like, oh, ah, it's happening faster than I can even tell you. Okay.
Speaker 1:So we have spent an entire year in therapy throwing rocks out on the ledge you couldn't see to know that it was safe to go across from memory time to get to the other side, which is now time. Oh my goodness. This analogy totally works. I hope I even get to see the therapist long enough on Monday to tell her all this. So if you okay.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness. My brain. Okay. So if where you're leaving is memory time and he's trying to get across to the other side, which is now time, the therapist for the last year has spent a whole year giving me different rocks in my hand that I could hold and I could touch to know that it was real enough, but you have to throw them and let them fall out to be able to see the path. Right?
Speaker 1:And what I'm saying different than just those skills, like coping skills or whatever, like, than just that, I know that my therapist is also that ledge. Like, she is not going to let me fall into that cavern. Like, it's terrifying. It's unpleasant. It's scary.
Speaker 1:My body does not trust it because it sees the cavern. But my head and most of us, not I mean, everybody who's been able to participate and everyone in their own way is seriously trying. Okay? But most of us, we know we can even step out on that ledge. Like, we I think, I think you guys, I think, have finally started the actual walk across and that our therapist is safe enough to hold us to get us across.
Speaker 1:She is safe enough to get us across. We can do it. I know that. What I don't know yet, only because it's so new and really we're just not there yet, the piece that I don't know yet is if she will still be there with us when we get on the other side. And what I mean by that is, like, when we are starting to tell her things and when we are starting to process things and people inside are starting to tell their stories, like, in those moments, all we can see is cavern, and all we can see is we're trying to go across, but what's across from us is a dark cave.
Speaker 1:Right? And so so that is where it's still scary is because our body only sees with the eyes and with the feelings and body memories or whatever that the cavern is so big and so deep and so scary, and we're pretty much gonna die. But when I just look at the rocks that she gave us to hold and to throw out across the ledge, we can step out and we can start walking across. Does that make sense? I have been very profound for myself this morning.
Speaker 1:Part of that, though, is that when you throw those rocks out and make the ledge, like, easier to see where it is so you can step across, then it helps other people too. Like, that's how those people were able to follow him. I mean, in the movie, those people were bad guys, but it doesn't matter. The point is it's also how he found his way back, which is what tells me that therapists will help us come full circle that we can go into this, do what we need to do, and get back out and be better. Not only is she not oh, this is it.
Speaker 1:That was the piece I was looking for. Not only is she not gonna let us fall into the cavern, but she is going to pull us out to the other side, like, all the way to the healing part on the other side. So that's the piece we need to hang on to is that going in does not mean we can't come back out. We're gonna get back out. I don't know how to spread that through the layers, so to speak, but I understand it for the first time.
Speaker 1:Like, it just has come to me. So that's a helpful thing. And it's also part of why we're doing the podcast because even though other people's stories are different than ours, what we learn can help them the way what other people learned helped us. And so even though we don't know everything and even though we're just sharing crazy things like Indiana Jones analogies, which John Mark will like and I appreciate even if no one else gets it, they can find their own analogies. Okay?
Speaker 1:But for me, it works, and it might work for someone else. And it's so hard to find those rocks, those things to throw, not at people, hello, but at the ledge so that you can see where to walk and how to get there safely. That's why we're doing the podcast because we wanna help people so that it's not as scary for them either. You know, like, almost being a friend, maybe we could learn that in the process. Maybe in the process, we can make a friend.
Speaker 1:But here's the beginnings of it. I wanna share these with you. So one of the things that we love about the podcast is hearing back from other listeners because it helps us not only make new friends who understand about DID, but it helps us have the courage to keep doing the podcast because it is helping people. So I wanna really thank the people who are listening and also those who have written in and sent their very kind letters of encouragement. One of them was from Alicia who said, thank you so much for your podcast.
Speaker 1:I also have DID and love having a podcast I can relate to. I really enjoyed the interviews. And then she also told us about her therapist who is also a former president of ISSTD, and so we're totally gonna talk to him. So how cool is that? Not only did we make a new friend, but we also got to make a new connection.
Speaker 1:So that was kind of a big deal and pretty special. Thanks, Alicia. We also got an email from someone whose initials were o a, and all they said was thanks. And I want to make sure that I mention them because I can tell just by the way the email came through that they were pretty dissociated when they wrote it, and also that it took a lot of courage for them to just submit that. And so I want to thank them and make sure that they are acknowledged and know that we really appreciated their email.
Speaker 1:We also got an email from Michelle who said, I just wanted to let you know that I'm thankful my counselor told me about your podcast yesterday in our session. I'm a mother of three boys and married for twenty two years and diagnosed with DID. And then she shares some other things that I don't wanna read here, but that talk about some of the parallels we have in some of our experiences. And so I'm so grateful to have gotten to connect with her, someone who understands not just DID, but some of the similar things that we've been through that, are some parallels between our families. So, again, how amazing is that that we can strengthen and support each other when we are brave enough to open up a little bit.
Speaker 1:We can learn, like in therapy, how to do that safely and when it's safe to do it and how it's safe to do it and with whom. But it's kind of a beautiful thing. Like, I never thought we would be even though I know we're just starting, and I don't know if our like, maybe our therapist is just rolling her eyes and going crazy, being stuck with us all this time, but we've made it further in therapy than we have ever made it before, ever. And so all of that was because of that risk to try and trust. Right?
Speaker 1:We also got an email who said, I just wanna say my therapist gave me your podcast flyer, and I love the way you explain everything. You have made me feel less alone. Oh my goodness, Ee. You have touched my heart, and I am so grateful that you feel less alone. And I am so grateful you sent an email so we feel less alone too.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Kim said, your podcast is awesome. Yes. That's a win, you guys. Kim said we're awesome.
Speaker 1:That makes it legit. All you really helped me on so many levels. My partner has DID, and I'm just trying to figure it out day by day. No kidding, Kim. Seriously, Kim.
Speaker 1:No kidding. I can't imagine living on the outside of DID. So the fact that our therapist and the husband are still around just baffles me, completely baffles me. But I'm so grateful, and good for you, Kim, for loving your partner with DID. She has a question.
Speaker 1:Kim says, why was Sasha so sure oh, Kim says, why was Sasha so sure the therapist was going to fire y'all over the podcast since it's such a positive thing? Okay. First of all, I love Kim because she said y'all. K? I'm an Oklahoma girl, and so it's very important that she said y'all.
Speaker 1:That's your in. Okay? That's the password. That's the secret code. No.
Speaker 1:I'm just kidding. So why was Sasha so sure the therapist is going to fire you all over the podcast since it's a positive thing? So there's two layers to your question. Always layers, Kim. Always layers.
Speaker 1:One layer is that I didn't know the podcast was a positive thing. I only knew the podcast was a risky thing. Does that make sense? So I did the podcast because the idea unfolded in a conversation with a husband because we do a podcast for something else. And so we knew how to do it.
Speaker 1:We have the equipment to do it, and it's actually really good practice for ear training because of our cochlear implants. And so that's how we got into it in the first place. And so trying to do it for DID and finding out what was the safety and the boundaries, and then the level of communication that happened because we were talking about things out loud for us, that was a powerful experience. And all these different things kind of unfolded to where it made the therapeutic work that we were doing exponential. And so we just kept going, and I never meant it to be a secret.
Speaker 1:I just didn't know people were actually gonna listen to it. And it was risky because we were just putting it out there, which is always scary. Like, we're pretty private people, but through different things and because of work and because of our family story and different things, there are parts of our lives that are very, very public. And we have to be careful about self disclosure so that it's super intentional but also limited. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:And so the podcast just was a whole new level of scary because of all of those things. And then at the same time we started the podcast, we got reported to family services, which turned out to be a false report, and it was completely dropped. And I know we keep bringing it up, but it's because it was that scary. Like, was such a huge trigger for us and for our outside kids that it really just was terrifying. And so it felt like a consequence of opening up and saying these things out loud.
Speaker 1:It felt like that happened because of therapy, and that happened because of the podcast, and that happened because, because, because. None of that was true. And the therapist is like, what is the evidence that the evidence is that it was completely unrelated. It was completely false. It was dropped and not even actually an issue.
Speaker 1:But the experience was this is a cavern, and we're going to fall in. I didn't know. Like, you're saying it's a positive thing, and I so appreciate that reminder in everyone's emails because it helps us remember that and to keep trying because sometimes it just feels risky. It just feels like a cavern. It just feels like we're not supposed to talk about any of this.
Speaker 1:And even in the mental health community, there's such a back lash against YouTubers and against survivors talking to each other and survivors talking about some things. Like, it can be done well and it can be done poorly, but it's not fair for some people in the mental health community to target everyone for those who have done it poorly. Just like it's not fair for survivors to target all of the therapists just because there are a few bad ones out there. So for us, it was such a new thing, and we didn't know how it was gonna be received either professionally or by survivors that we didn't know it was a positive thing. So you, Kim, are actually the first person who said, this is a positive thing.
Speaker 1:So way to go. Thanks, Kim. The other layer is about the therapist. I mean, not really about therapist cause it's our stuff. It's not her stuff.
Speaker 1:But being so afraid we're gonna be fired over anything just goes back to, like, friendship and trust like I've been talking about in this episode. There is so much fear that is not just fear, but in the past has been danger, like actual danger, that it makes it scary to even try to participate in something like therapy or a relationship or even a friendship, but also it feels like the cavern. So for people who grew up in healthy families or have not had bad dating relationships or something like that, friendships and relationships come a little bit easier. Like, you already know that the board is here, and this is the balance beam I walk across to the other side, and everything's gonna be great. People know those things.
Speaker 1:It's like an assumption because they have attachment and they have trust. But when someone has been through trauma, and even if that was as an adult, a really bad dating relationship or a traumatic breakup or a traumatic betrayal of trust in some way when you're dating someone, like it doesn't just have to be childhood trauma. Anything that is a disruption to a relationship causes that kind of relational trauma and makes trust harder the next time. So when someone has a whole lifetime of those things, it makes trust a really hard thing. So we are still learning that the therapist is even gonna keep us.
Speaker 1:Like, we adore her. Like, there's not even anything wrong in our relationship because when there's something that comes up either between her or us, we're able to talk about it. Like, that's what keeps a relationship healthy. Right? And so if she's taking off, like, spring break, for example, because she has a family, like, a real life outside of us, okay, which is normal and appropriate and healthy, she just says, this is my week off for spring break.
Speaker 1:Like, the the boundaries are clear, and that's part of what keeps us safe. Her taking spring break off is not like an attack on us. It has nothing to do with us. But at the same time, because we've been through things in the past, then that week when we have to go two weeks without seeing her instead of just one, I guarantee that by the end of the second week, we will be, like, barely hanging on. And not because we're not smart people or functioning people, but because we literally can't hold what is that called?
Speaker 1:Doctor e says it's called holding the transference of, like, the relationship between people. Like, transference in a good way, not in a bad kind of transference. But, like, the energy between two people in a relationship, we can't hold it that long. We don't know how because no one ever has. So there are times that therapists part of therapy is her holding that for us, and there are other times we practice holding it for more and more and longer and longer times, but we are not good at it yet.
Speaker 1:So anything that feels like the cavern feels risky and dangerous. And so the podcast was like a cavern, and it was risky for the therapist that we would lose her over it, not because our therapist has ever even one time said, I hate when you do that. Please stop doing that. She's never said that about anything. Nothing.
Speaker 1:Nothing. And even when we make our lives harder than it has to be, she's never shamed us or, like, quit on us or gotten irritated. She can call us out on stuff like staying on topic or focusing or trying to stay present when we're like, I don't even wanna tell you the things that she can call us out on. Like, we cannot be sneaky in there. Like, she is all about it.
Speaker 1:But she's still there, and she does care. I believe that. Or she's really good at doing like, what is it you do when you make people think they care? I don't know. She's really good at what she's doing.
Speaker 1:She's really good at being her. And so it wasn't that the therapist did something we thought she would fire us. It's just that we're still learning to trust that. We're still learning how to walk across that board. I know that's a, like, a long version, but I hope that answers your question.
Speaker 1:I also got an email from Diane. And she said, I just wanted to say thank you and how much I admire you. Sometimes people come into your life and make a difference, and you have done that. It is sometimes we don't tell people that they make a positive difference, and so I wanted to be sure and let you know. How amazing is that?
Speaker 1:You guys, that's like right there. Diane is learning legit how to have relationships because she felt something and said it out loud. Like, I'm learning about that. That, what she just did, was connection. When you feel something positive about someone, you need to say it out loud to that person.
Speaker 1:That isn't a relationship thing. So then she also talks about I don't wanna read all the private things, but she also talks about having DID and what that's been like for her and how it's been hard sometimes and that she has a husband of forty two years. Oh, shout out to Diane in the marriage department. That's amazing. That is amazing.
Speaker 1:You guys, I'm gonna get on a soapbox for a minute. People forget that marriage is, like, just hard. Like, people just want marriage to be easy, and people break up and and quit so easily. And any almost any relationship I'm talking about safe ones, guys. I'm not talking about unsafe ones.
Speaker 1:But in safe relationships, you can get through almost anything if both of you will just do the work. Now that doesn't mean both of you are always doing the work, and you can't control if someone else does the work or not. But if you both do the work, you can get through anything. And so that's amazing. Forty two years, you just blew me away.
Speaker 1:Anyway, her husband calls her his girl of many colors. Aw, that's so sweet. So she says, I listen to your podcast over and over, and sometimes they help me sleep. That's funny. I know who makes you sleep.
Speaker 1:I know which ones are boring. No. I'm just kidding. Just knowing that there is someone very like me out there helps and you sound kind. I'm not the kind one.
Speaker 1:I'm not the boring one either though, so that works out. And then she shares some more stuff about her history. I don't wanna share the private things, but I so appreciate your email, Diane. It was really special. Thanks, and I hope you don't mind that I emailed you.
Speaker 1:Not at all, and I'm so glad you did. Oh, and then she says, cheers. Aw. Cheers. Cheers.
Speaker 1:I love it. Cheers. We lived in Australia, actually. This person is from Australia. We lived in Sydney for two years, and it was amazing.
Speaker 1:It was beautiful, and there was fresh food everywhere. Like, they have a fruit vegetable market and a meat market and a dairy market. And, like, there's no Walmart supercenter where you go get old food that's already been processed for two years. Like, it was so fresh. I never in my life sorry, France.
Speaker 1:Never in my life. Okay. France still had the best cheese. Germany. Germany.
Speaker 1:I did a lot of drinking in Germany. And when I was in England, it was just wet all the time. It was raining the whole time I was there, every time I've been there, and every time I've lived there. And so I only remember that the food was hot and warm and, like, savory and what's the word in English? Like, kept you going.
Speaker 1:It was filling because you were gonna go out in the rain, and you needed to be warmed up and full. But in Sydney, to ride the ferry and to eat the fresh food, oh my goodness. I love Sydney so much. A shout out to Sydney. I mean, don't I'm not saying she lives in Sydney.
Speaker 1:She does not say where in Australia, and I'm not trying to disclose where she lives. I'm saying I lived in Sydney, and I wanna send out a shout out to Australia because it was gorgeous. Here's another email that says, everyone I've listened to has made me laugh, cry, and help me understand myself. Actually, the three Emmas episode provided so much clarity for us. I never even thought about how that could happen, but I think it's totally true for us.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's amazing. I honestly have not listened to that episode. I don't actually relisten to the episodes. I help edit most of them, not all of them, but then I don't I don't go back and, like, relisten to them because I I learn while I'm editing. But I know that Emma is listening to them and has learned, like, a whole lot that way, and we've made huge progress.
Speaker 1:And I think Emma is finally on board, and I think she's finally listening and reading the notebooks for the first time. So that's huge progress. So I'm glad it helped you too. Thank you. So all of that to say, we are learning about trust.
Speaker 1:I so appreciate those of you who have emailed us through the website, systemsspeak.org, and who have said such kind things and been so encouraging because this has been terrifying and really risky and scary, and that's been a hard thing. And we're entering a new season, not on the podcast, in real life, of things being scary in a new way. So with a therapist, it feels like we're starting to talk about things more, and so that feels scary in a new way. And the husband, nothing bad has happened with him, but he has been getting better at, like, noticing us and who is out and what's going on. And so that feels scary in a new way.
Speaker 1:Like, we feel so kind of, like, seen and known and heard. You know, all those things in a relationship, like, in therapy too. So it's super scary, but we are working on it, and we're learning. Another area that is scary is that our friend Julie, who we've talked to twice on the podcast, has sent us a package for our birthday. And all of this was leading up to that because it's a really scary thing.
Speaker 1:What if secretly Julie is a creeper, and it's a bad thing? Except she's not. She's very kind. We know her really well. We have a PO box, which we shared with her because she wanted to send us something for our birthday.
Speaker 1:And our birthday was last week. We didn't really talk about it a lot because it has been a bad thing kind of in the past and not a positive experience. And, also, birthdays are kind of a relational holiday in a way. And when you're terrible at having friends, then birthdays really suck. So so it was kind of our first experience to pretend to even try to have a birthday, and that was, like, from a thousand miles apart.
Speaker 1:So this is a big deal for us. So we do have a PO box. Julie has sent something for our birthday, and you're gonna go inside with us and pick it up because it's scary and exciting, except she really has been very kind. So a shout out to Julie who has been very patient with us for ages, months and months and months and months while we have very, very, very, very slowly gotten to know her. And she has been a constant encouragement for which I am grateful.
Speaker 1:She's my homegirl except, you know, safely from a thousand miles away. Also, when I say I don't have friends, it hurts her feelings. Because when you have a friend or someone who's trying to be a friend, you can't say you don't have friends. So I got called out for that too, like, more than once. So I'm trying, but I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's just a hard thing. Okay? So you're going with me in to get the post office box, whatever it is she sent us. I have no idea what it is. We're gonna go inside to the post office box, and we'll get it, and then we'll come back and open it in the car.
Speaker 1:Are you ready? It's a key inside the post office box because friendship is scary. So our post office box has a key in it, and now we go to another post office box that's bigger to get our birthday package. Where is it? This one.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness. It's so big. It says two systems beak. That's us. Okay.
Speaker 1:So excited. Let's go open it. Okay. We are so excited. We are so excited.
Speaker 1:So while I'm talking about friendships and relationships and caverns and Indiana Jones today, let me say wait. No. First, let me lock my door. Okay. Sorry.
Speaker 1:So easily creeped out. You know? So it is hard to even be friends with other survivors because we have been burned in the past. Like, we had to go to a group and try to make friends there. There are good things about being friends with people who understand, but just because someone says they understand doesn't mean they really do.
Speaker 1:And also, you have different experiences. And also, just because someone says they understand doesn't make them safe. So one thing that we've had to learn is that when you're trying to be friends with someone, safety matters even if they say that they know about DID or even if they understand or even if they're another survivor. And that's true all the time. Like, let me give a more neutral example.
Speaker 1:People all the time will come up and tell me, oh, we saw a deaf person at the grocery store. That doesn't make them my friend. It doesn't mean I know who they are. Just because they are also deaf does not mean we are best friends. Like, people are like, oh, I'm so excited I saw a deaf person.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Yay, deaf people. Shout out to deaf people. That doesn't mean that they're my best friend. Like, I can't tell you how many times that happened.
Speaker 1:They're like, we saw this deaf girl, and she had this kind of hair and this kind of outfit. Who was what's her name? I don't know who you saw at the grocery store. I wasn't there. Just because we're both deaf does not mean we're best friends.
Speaker 1:I mean, okay, so the same thing with the survivor community. Just because we are both in group or just because we both have shared some experience doesn't mean that we're friends. Like, you have build a relationship or a friendship and make sure the other person is safe. And that person needs to be doing their healthy work to keep themselves healthy, and you have to do your healthy work to keep yourself healthy. But if you both do those things, then friendship is possible, and that's a good thing.
Speaker 1:And so far, Julie has put up with us. And so now we're gonna open our first package. I'm so excited. Julie, that was so nice of you. That was really very kind.
Speaker 1:It's also pretty special. It's the only birthday present we got. Actually, we did not even get birthday presents from our family. I mean, like, the parents are dead. Once your parents die, nobody cares about your birthday anymore.
Speaker 1:First of all, let's just talk about that. I don't even wanna talk about birthdays from childhood. Like, that's a whole different podcast episode. But let's just talk about how when your when your parents die, nobody cares about you anymore. You are an orphan.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter if you're an adult. Game over, people. So when it was bad to begin with and then also just stops existing, that's confusing because there's not even, like, a false hope that things will be good sometime. Like, it kind of erases some of that masochism of maybe this time it'll be good. Like, it gets rid of that because it's just over.
Speaker 1:Like, you're out of quarters. Okay? But they so this is the first present I've gotten. We are married, but, like, we do not have money to spend on presents, and the husband will make us an ornament every Christmas. He makes an ornament for us, which is super sweet, but we just don't do presents.
Speaker 1:Presents are not language. His love language is being the best husband in the whole world the rest of the year. So I'm okay with that. That is a fair exchange, and I fully accept it. But it makes it super exciting.
Speaker 1:We got a present in the mail. Yay, Julie. Because, you know, friends. So we'll see what our present is. It's like a big brown envelope, but it's hard to open.
Speaker 1:It's pretty thick. Like, it's longer than my arm and thick like a book, like a big dictionary, except it's not heavy, and it's not a book. But that's the size it is. K. I'm opening.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness. There's several things in there. I'm pulling out. Scented gel pens. 30 gel pens.
Speaker 1:Oh, Julie, that's so sweet. We write in our notebooks all the time. We carry a bag of pens around with us all the time, so she knows that we're using the pens and using them up. And we go through pens faster than anything. Like, it's crazy how many pens we go through.
Speaker 1:So that's so sweet and so extra thoughtful. They're scented gel pens. I don't even know what to do with that. I've never had scented gel pens. Does that make therapy, like, happy and sweet?
Speaker 1:Is that what this is? Let me see. I'm gonna open one. This one says basket of berries. Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:That's crazy. Julie, that was so nice. Aw. That's just so sweet. Okay.
Speaker 1:This is amazing, and I'm totally not gonna be able to stay present right now. So I'm going to put them away, not because I don't love them, but because other people love them too. Do you know our therapist gave us a little sack of little things at Christmas time, and it was really powerful thing. Like, it was such a simple thing. I don't mean a simple gift.
Speaker 1:I mean, gift giving can be such a simple thing and an expression of caring about someone in a way that's just thoughtful. Like, that's really a special kind of thing. I don't know. I feel like that's teaches me something about relationships and expressing care within a relationship that is still new to me, and I'm trying to learn and practice because none of this comes intuitively to me. So okay.
Speaker 1:The markers and the the pens are amazing. I love them so much, but I'm totally putting them away because I will not get to stay here and see everything else. So we're gonna just keep going. Okay. Okay.
Speaker 1:There's a sleep mask in here. You know, like, for sleeping that covers your eyes, and it says, sorry. We're closed. That's so funny. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:It's so soft. Julie, thank you. That's so sweet. Okay. And now the other thing that's in this package Julie, I'm gonna kill you.
Speaker 1:I can't believe you did this. Oh, you are so not my friend anymore. She sent their recognition awards. They're like a it's a stack. It's a stack of, like, teacher certificates.
Speaker 1:Like, I mean, teachers would give to students. Like, they say outstanding, well done, great job. And then you fill out you fill out on them who they're to, what they're for, and you sign them. And so I know this is like John Mark and his badges, and now these are gonna be crazy in the way. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:I can't believe you did this. You're in so much trouble. That's really funny. Oh, now there are different cards for everybody. You know what?
Speaker 1:That's a powerful thing. I know that if you're friends with someone else who's a system, that that's a whole lot of relationships. Like, in a system, that's a whole lot of different kinds of relationships inside us. So even learning how to navigate that, but how the husband navigates all the different relationships with us is I don't know how he does that. Like, I can't even do that yet.
Speaker 1:And the therapist the therapist did like this, like what Julie did. She, when we were first starting, like, sometime last summer, I think, after we'd been in therapy for a little while and she knew us a little bit, she wrote a letter in our journal. Like, so we turn in our notebook. We write write write write write write with scented gel pens, and we turn in our notebook, and then we get the notebook back from the week before. Like, she's torn out what we wrote so that we can finish the pages in it.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean? So we always have this notebook exchange. And one time when we got the notebook back, she had written in it. And she had written a letter to everyone that had either written or talked to her so far. And so we have in actually, it we keep it in our bag with all the pens in it.
Speaker 1:We keep it there. We have this stack of letters that she wrote to everybody, and we read them every day, sometimes more than once or twice or three or four times because they help so much for, like, that connection and remembering. Like, that is an example of throwing stones on that board so that you can take that leap of faith and step out because they are real because she wrote to them, and she is real because she wrote to us. And therapy is real because she talked like, you know what I mean? It's like when we interviewed Jane Hart and she talked about the denial book.
Speaker 1:We don't have one of those, but this helps us with that. Like, it when that connection is really hard to hold on to, those letters that our therapist wrote to each of us really help a lot. And so we have those, and we have the bear, and we have the watch, and we have these different things that help solidify in a tangible way. We can hold on to this, and we can hold on to that. Like, the week when she goes on spring break, we will probably carry those letters around in our actual pocket, not just the bag with the pins in it, like, all day long so that we can physically touch them and hold them.
Speaker 1:That's, like, how much something like that matters. And so the fact that Julie wrote these, Julie, that was so sweet that you sent cards to everyone. Here's one for Emma. Here's one for the boys. Here's one for everybody, Emma and company, it says.
Speaker 1:One for m and one for doctor e. So I will leave all of theirs, but I'm totally opening mine. It says the coolest, most awesome, most sassy Sasha. Don't you forget it. Don't you know it.
Speaker 1:Oh, Julie, my homegirl, it has sparkly stickers all over the outside with glitter. That's so funny. You know, m told the kids, the outside kids. Ian told the outside kids that we're allergic to glitter, and so glitter is not allowed in our house. So when the kids do projects at school with glitter, they tell their teachers their mom is allergic, and they have to leave the projects at school.
Speaker 1:Oh, it makes me laugh. Okay. I'm opening my birthday card that has my name on it. I'm leaving all the others for them. So many stickers.
Speaker 1:I love the stickers. Oh my goodness. It has cheese on the front. You guys, I'm a fan of cheese. I'm not kidding.
Speaker 1:And the best cheese I ever had was when I lived in France and Germany and up there in the Alps. Like, oh, the cheese, you guys. You have no idea. It was like the feet of God. It was so good.
Speaker 1:So there's cheese on the front. It says, happy birthday to one of the Gouda ones. You better breathe leave it. Oh my goodness. It's so clever.
Speaker 1:Just a cheesy wish for a happy birthday. Sasha, I hope you have the best day ever. I saw this card and thought of your love of cheese and knew you had to have it. Happy birthday to the coolest, most awesome, sassiest friend ever, your number one friend, Julie. Julie, you're gonna make me cry.
Speaker 1:That was very sweet, and that was very kind, and also it made me hungry. So thank you so much for the birthday cards, for the emails from the website, and for the encouragement to keep going on the podcast and to keep sharing and to keep going to, you know, therapy, which I'm trying to. We have driven early. We are here. We are ready for therapy tomorrow.
Speaker 1:And here, it's fine. Like, the sun is out, and it's, like, 70 degrees. How can four hours of geography make that much of a difference? I don't even know. Okay.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna take my cheese lover card. It's oh, that's just so sweet. That's funny. That's funny. Thank you, Julie.
Speaker 1:Thank you to people who have been emailing and my friends I'm just getting to know. And, also, hello to Megan. I need to write her back. Thank you, seriously. All joking aside, thank you, seriously, for the encouragement to stay in therapy, to keep doing the podcast, and to keep sharing and helping us connect together as a community in good and positive ways.
Speaker 1:And I appreciate that we get to learn together and that we all feel a little less alone in the process. I hope you have a great day, and happy birthday to us, I guess. So maybe that's part of what we're reclaiming in this whole process. Right? I don't know.
Speaker 1:We'll see. Thanks, guys.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing, and you can join us on the community at www.systemspeakcommunity.com. We'll see you there.