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Matt and Sean talk about taking an unexpected environmental blight (Sargassum), and turning it into a renewable, useful (and profitable) resource.
Watch the Undecided with Matt Ferrell episode, This Seaweed Was a Caribbean Disaster, Now It's Gold https://youtu.be/iAYiUN4gvi4?list=PLnTSM-ORSgi7uzySCXq8VXhodHB5B5OiQ
Matt and Sean talk about taking an unexpected environmental blight (Sargassum), and turning it into a renewable, useful (and profitable) resource.
Watch the Undecided with Matt Ferrell episode, This Seaweed Was a Caribbean Disaster, Now It's Gold https://youtu.be/iAYiUN4gvi4?list=PLnTSM-ORSgi7uzySCXq8VXhodHB5B5OiQ
Follow us on X: @stilltbdfm @byseanferrell @mattferrell or @undecidedmf
Undecided with Matt Ferrell: https://www.youtube.com/undecidedmf
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Creators and Guests
What is Still To Be Determined?
Join Matt Ferrell from the YouTube Channel, Undecided, and his brother Sean Ferrell as they discuss electric vehicles, renewable energy, smart technologies, and how they impact our lives. Still TBD continues the conversation from the Undecided YouTube channel.
Sean Ferrell: This week on Still To Be Determined, we're talking about starting over. That's right. This is take two. All you people at home, all you people driving your cars, all you people trapped under heavy objects, you don't know it, but this is our second attempt at recording this episode. Because our first attempt. Well, she did not go so well.
Matt Ferrell: No, it did not.
Sean Ferrell: I'm not trying to point any fingers at anybody who's responsible, but the guilty party knows who they are. Welcome everybody to Still to be Determined. This is of course the follow up podcast to Undecided with Matt Ferrell, which takes a look at emerging tech and its impact on our lives. I am not Matt Ferrell, as Matt Ferrell will happily tell you. I'm Sean Ferrell. I'm a writer. I write some sci fi, I write some horror, I write some stuff for kids and I'm just generally curious about technology. Luckily for me, my brother is that Matt. Matt, how are you today? I've already asked you this question.
Matt Ferrell: Yes, you did.
Sean Ferrell: I already know the answer.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah, I'm doing great. Sean, how about you?
Sean Ferrell: Well, I'm either over or under caffeinated, as I've said before.
Matt Ferrell: Slow sip of the coffee.
Sean Ferrell: Good cup a’ Joe.
Matt Ferrell: Sean, I feel like we're in one of those sci fi movies where time keeps looping and like,
Sean Ferrell: If only someone would write a book like that.
Matt Ferrell: But there are subtle differences. The second time through.
Sean Ferrell: Deja vu all over again.
Matt Ferrell: Yep.
Sean Ferrell: So this week we're going to be talking about Matt's most recent. This is of course about seaweed. Why wouldn't it be, of course talking about miracle material? This seaweed was a Caribbean disaster. Now it's gold. This, this is his most recent episode and we'll be getting into how people in the Caribbean are turning what was a climate change and bad coincidence catastrophe into a renewable resource that could have a lot of potential. So we'll get into that in a minute, but first we're going to revisit the comments from our most recent episode. This is from episode 279, which there was podcast gold in the discussion in our first attempt at this. But it's lost. It's lost in time. We're not going to recreate it, but just know everybody, you would have laughed, you would have cried, you might even have forgiven yourself for the things you feel guilty about. But onward and upward, I always say. We're talking about from episode 279 in which we were talking about the change in the US government's funding of research. The big beautiful bill gutting research funding undermining belief in science or progress and, you know, that whole thing. And the comments were full of a lot of people who were feeling the angst, anger and fear that Matt and I both completely understand. We share in those sentiments. There were also people who wanted to basically throw out some thoughts regarding having these conversations in the first place, like Scott Hussey, who jumped in to say, I'm glad you made that video. As a business owner myself, I understand the need to stay politically agnostic with your public statements, but the time for keeping quiet is well behind us now. Everybody with a platform needs to use it or else we're not going to be able to pull back before going over the brink. I know, Matt, that you have always been very soberly conscious about wading into politics.
You in your channel have always stepped onto the third rail just by the nature of the topic that you like to talk about. So when you walk in and say renewable energy, there is a not small percentage of the population that says get the pitchforks and torches. And when you say this corporation doesn't seem to be doing a great job, there's another not small percentage of the population that says get the pitchforks and torches. So there's always the possibility, both from the left and the right, of people saying this channel is doesn't get it or this channel has an agenda or this channel is fill in the blank. But here you felt the need to directly address the elephant in the room which was your channel's vision on tech sustainability and its impact on our lives ran into a brick wall. That was our political era and the big beautiful bill. Do you want to talk just briefly about the challenges you had in maybe recognizing the moment and recognizing that it was time for you to say, like I've got to say some stuff and keep it. Your video, I think, was very clear eyed and didn't come at it from a this feels bad perspective. It came at it from a what will the measurable impact be perspective.
So do you want to talk just a little bit about some of the terrain you went through internally as you got to that point?
Matt Ferrell: Yeah, in the past it's been easier because a lot of the stuff I talk about when I was talking about solar panels in my house, it's a very individualized thing. So it's like no matter where you are in the political spectrum, if you think solar panels are a scam. I tried to cover my experience with solar panels on my home from a point of view that would not be about get solar panels for your home for Climate change, it's just, here's what it can mean for you for energy security, here's what it can mean for you for costs. I just try to be very matter of fact about it, trying to kind of open things up to as broad of an audience as I could get. Because I don't care what your political ideology is. I really don't. It's just like I want to try to give the facts that you can come to your own decision, decide if solar panels are good for you or not. Not based on the crap that's out there online, you know, the fud. But for this recent foray into politics, it's now not an individualized thing that I was kind of hitting the wall against. It was kind of unavoidable having to talk about this stuff because that misinformation, that ideological point of view against renewables is now top of the chain and making decisions that are going to dramatically impact all of us, no matter what your political ideology is for the negative. And that's where it was kind of like I felt like my hand was forced of like, oh, now I have to kind of wade into politics. Yeah. To talk about this. It's, it's kind of unavoidable. But I tried to take the same exact approach of looking at it not from a climate change argument or an ideological point of view, but from a. Let's just look at the numbers, let's listen to the facts on the ground and see what this means. So it was the same approach just in politics, which is what I've tried to avoid. So it was a very challenging endeavor. Yeah, yeah.
Sean Ferrell: There were also comments like these two from Niels and Bill Hill. The first from Niels. I found it, I think unintentionally from his perspective, reassuring. I'll share why in a moment. Niels writes, as a European, it's very interesting to watch. Our governments are also making heavy cuts to research budgets. But when the major cuts in the US were announced, hundreds of millions of euros were suddenly found to attract high profile US researchers. The reason I found this slightly reassuring was, yeah, we are changing direction in a dramatic way. We might be able to change direction again and reclaim some of what we seem to have self inflicted upon ourselves. And then this from Bill Hill. Bill's comment is a long one. I'm not going to read the entire thing, but for anybody who's interested, please jump into the comments and look for Bill's comment. It is worth reading. I wanted to share the last part of it though. He says thank you for the great discussion. Keep it up. I enjoyed Matt's last video. I agree that it needed to be said and I commend Matt for making it. Watching from Australia. I am sympathetic to your concerns. Fortunately for us, we are now heading in a very positive direction on energy. Although from 2013 to 2021 we were in a similar predicament. As to you, it was really depressing and frustrating. Hopefully, like us, you will get through this period and come back into the light. As Matt points out, solar power is the cheapest form of electricity and sooner or later, people will start voting with their wallets. The rest of the world is embracing renewables, not just because of the environment. They are doing it because it is fast to build and most importantly, cheap. Eventually, economics will sort it out and your federal administration will have to flip. Chins up, fellas. A very. I found that.
Matt Ferrell: That's great.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah, greatly appreciated it. And really, when you contextualize these things just within the confines of the US it feels like the sky is falling. When you step back and you can bring in comments like from Neil's and from Bill Hill and contextualize it as a global effort, there's too much effort to go in a positive direction. There's too much momentum toward something that is objectively better. And I found myself thinking, yeah, we're going through. It's depending on how you want to look at it. We're going through either birth pains or a death rattle. Either one of those is trying and means change. If it's the death rattle of, I don't know, drill, baby, drill, or is it the birth pains of, yeah, we got to turn the corner and really embrace renewables. Six of one, half dozen of another, maybe. So thank you everybody for your comments, both positive, critical and reassuring. Thank you everybody. On now to our discussion about Matt's most recent. This is, of course about seaweed, a topic Matt can't let go of. He loves this.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah.
Sean Ferrell: So climate change, the warming of the ocean in different ways, creating different currents, different tidal patterns, storms, and suddenly the sargasso weed. Is that what it is? The.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah, Sargassum.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah, the sargassum gets pushed into an area where it doesn't normally inhabit. And as you point out, this doesn't need seeds, it doesn't need anything other than. I mean, the bad news is just damaging it makes more of it. So, yeah, wow, here comes a storm and this stuff is getting ripped apart. And it's getting ripped apart, which means more of it. Yeah, that's great. And then it ends up getting washed ashore throughout the Caribbean and parts of Mexico. And, yeah, I've been to the US Virgin Islands and seen the results of this. When you were saying, like, it's normally between these months, it's in this part of the world. And I was like, oh, that's what that stuff was. Oh. Oh, right. That's why the water was disgusting. That's why the beach was covered in rotting vegetation.
Matt Ferrell: It smells really bad.
Sean Ferrell: That smells really bad. Still had a lovely time. I'm not complaining. But, yeah, it's. It's there. And then a bunch of people, I mean, God love them, they walk out on the beach and they're like, yeah, what can I do here? You didn't really go into the background of the. Hmm, what can I do here? And I'm wondering if you know any of that background. Do you know any of the origin stories of any of the technology breakthroughs that you talked about in the video? Like, somebody lives there and is just, like. Has a background in textiles and is like, well, anything could be a fiber if it's right. If it's a growing plant, it's got fibers, so maybe anything could be a fiber. I could turn this into cloth. Like. Like, do you know any of those origin stories, or is this just kind of lost in the sea, so to speak of.
Matt Ferrell: Oh, Sean, the topic. It's kind of. It's kind of lost in the sea. But you can totally understand how this kind of happened, because the people that are doing this understand the nature of their business. They understand the nature of how you could turn this into a fuel. Like, well, of course you could turn this into a fuel because it contains carbon, it contains these elements. Why couldn't we do this? So it just took those people that kind of understand the underlying science just to walk out on the beach and go, this is a problem. That's fuel, or that's a T shirt. Like, whatever it is, it just took those people to kind of. Kind of see the, the potential, especially for, like, the cosmetics industry, which I brought up, which is using a lot of this stuff. It's like, it makes perfect sense why they were like, oh, wow, this could be perfect for us. So it's.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah. Seaweed as a component of a lot of things already exists. That's one of the. I mean, that's. That's one element that you didn't actually highlight is that there is a long trend of seaweed as a component because of all these chemicals that you. You know, the molecular components that you talk about. So having it suddenly literally washing ashore in these ways certainly opens up the door for that. I wonder if, do you. Are you aware of the ownership of these companies? I find myself hoping, like, I hope these are local. I hope that they are. I hope that there are people who live in these communities that the owners of these things, the researchers in these things, the people who will benefit from these will be the local communities. I would hate for this to be another case of some larger conglomerate that's just able to siphon from the local community and take something from these island nations because the populations there, these are poor places. The poverty in the Caribbean is something that is a constant problem. And I think the idea that there could be a renewable industry that could grow out of this, that could provide jobs and simply like the pride of it being theirs, I think is something that would be something I would hope for and want to support. So do you know anything about the backgrounds of some of these corporations?
Matt Ferrell: Some of the companies we talk about in the video are locally owned. And it's mainly because this is a pervasive problem on those islands. So they're highly motivated to find solutions to this issue. When you see a resource that's just dumping on your beaches and it's extremely expensive to clear it out, it's like, well, how can we recoup some of this? Yeah, some of this out of the expense. And there's just some very clever ingenuity at play here. It's really kind of cool.
Sean Ferrell: Do you know anything about the usefulness of the sargassum regarding timeline of when it's landing on the beaches and when it's cleared? For example, I can't imagine there's an age issue around. Oh, we got a bunch of sargassum. It's been here for three weeks, but we're going to turn it into methane. That's just going to be fine. But is there an issue with like, oh, this is too old for us to do the other things with. This can't become the fibers. This can't become cosmetics. Do you know anything about any of that angle?
Matt Ferrell: I don't know about the fibers for use in, like, T shirts and things and fabrics. I don't know about that. But for the other ones, like the fuel, it's like, I don't think there's a huge. You probably have a pretty big window. Yeah. On that.
Sean Ferrell: I mean, you. I mean, you're gathering methane as a.
Matt Ferrell: Result of rotting, so it's rotting anyway, so you must take.
Sean Ferrell: Anyway, I can't imagine that there would be like, oh, that's too old for us to get fuel out of.
Matt Ferrell: Exactly, exactly.
Sean Ferrell: But you talked a little bit about the fuel usage in those communities to begin with. It's heavily. If I understood it correctly, it's heavily imported oil. Is that the. That's just. I mean, that's, that's crazy. I mean, these are island nations. I can't believe that solar and wind aren't more deeply embraced because historically, Sean.
Matt Ferrell: Fossil fuels have been the cheapest way to get energy historically. That's not the case anymore. We're in that tipping point where things are flipping. So it's like, I think we're going to see that solar kind of like flip in island communities like this. But for right now, oil still has kind of a stranglehold on everything because of cost and infrastructure. And infrastructure. Yeah, that's.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah, that's. I mean, that doesn't. It. It's one of those things that, like, makes me want to hit myself in the head with a shoe. Like a state like Arizona that won't allow solar panels simply because it's. I mean, there's a political choice.
Matt Ferrell: Like, if only in the middle of the desert people.
Sean Ferrell: If only the sun would shine down upon Arizona. Like, what are you talking about? How. How are you not using these. Anyway, some comments on your video. There was this one from Palpatine who says, taxonomically speaking, which is a way I enjoy most phrases beginning, sargassum isn't a plant, as it lacks both roots and a vascular system. It's formally classed as an algae. I think that that's.
Matt Ferrell: It's.
Sean Ferrell: I mean, it's a. It's a definition without much impact on the conversation. But it is interesting to note that one of the things you talk about in the video, you reference bloom as a problem. And when you said that in the video, the little. We've done too many of these videos. You can't ignore this. You've started to pick up some of the information from your brother. Suddenly I was like, bloom, that's something that algae does.
Matt Ferrell: Yep.
Sean Ferrell: So here we go. Just on a different scale. Like, it's not little, tiny. It's not little, tiny plant or not plant. It's not the little tiny algae. It's big algae.
Matt Ferrell: Yes.
Sean Ferrell: It's kind of crazy big.
Matt Ferrell: Big tangible.
Sean Ferrell: Big tangible air. Bubbly, stinky. I mean, that's pretty wild. And I couldn't help but wonder, scale wise, it's different. Is it literally a larger version of small?
Matt Ferrell: Oh, you're getting into. You're getting into a realm But I can't definitively say that for sure. I would have to talk to my team who has expertise in this field. But yeah, I would assume it basically is.
Sean Ferrell: That's fascinating.
Matt Ferrell: Of the same. But I couldn't say it for sure. Yeah. Just a quick tangent. It just reminds me of there's a company called Bloom that takes algae, not this kind of algae, but takes algae and turns it into basically plastic and foam replacements. And they make soles for shoes. And I actually have a pair of. I think it's Nun Bush, the company, a pair of shoes, like sneakers that I bought them because I. Hey, they're comfortable. And then I noticed on the packaging it said Bloom soles. I was like, hey, I know them. I was like, I didn't go out shopping for it specifically, but I have a pair of shoes that has algae as the, the sole of the sneaker. It's. It's really very cool. Yeah.
Sean Ferrell: This comment from Super Cadet stood out to me. The problem with sargassum is really that nobody has developed an industrial scale method of collection before it hits beaches and becomes a problem. There are many innovative applications for its utilization, but none of those solve the primary issue of coastal fouling. I love that phrase. I'm having that tattooed on my back later today. There is need for an offshore based collection and processing approach. I don't disagree with that, but I think this is one of those cases where the overall impact. I'm sorry, we're going to have to break for a moment as my brother has lost it.
Matt Ferrell: You said you want this. A tattoo. And then immediately I pictured a tattoo on your back that says coastal fouling with an arrow pointing down.
Sean Ferrell: Exactly. Yeah, you read my mind.
Matt Ferrell: Thanks, Sean. Yeah, thank you. Okay, so sorry.
Sean Ferrell: The. The idea of harvesting effectively, that's what Super Cadet is talking about. Harvesting this. Yeah, harvesting a renewable, easily grown because you can't stop from growing resource could be an approach. But I think the difficulty here is the way that it's moving from where it historically has always sat and been contained into the Caribbean. There's too much chaos there. I can't imagine that there would be a industrial size harvesting method that would be more cost effective than waiting for it to actually land on your beaches.
Matt Ferrell: We didn't go this into this in the video in detail. We might probably should have, or it's its own video. But there are companies that have these. I don't call them machines, they're basically boats. But imagine you take buoys with kind of netting and you can kind of. It's kind of like if there's an oil slick, you're trying to hold the oil slick, and you can basically surround a buoy, huge batch of the sargassum, and you just start tightening it to reel it in. And these boats, which are kind of like a catamaran kind of thing, where it's like two pontoons and then there's like a thing in the middle where you. They basically just ingest the sargassum or whatever they're picking up, puts it on the boat. So there is ways that they can. There are ways that they can, like, harvest this at a scale that's almost like a farm. Yeah, that does exist, but that's money, that's access. And you're talking about. We're just talking about, like, poor communities. You got these small island nations that don't have. May not have access to that technology. And it literally is just washing up ashore. So it's like they have to harvest it once it's already on the beaches. So there are different technologies that make this possible. But of course, you know, it's the ocean, it's wild. You may not be able to do that effectively in certain areas. So it does make it very challenging.
Sean Ferrell: I liked this. The spirit of this from dewiz, who just says, another case of, do I have a problem or do I have an opportunity? Yeah, I like that as a. I mean, it's kind of a mantra. It's really kind of brilliant. Like the simplicity of I've got something that's causing me strife and anxiety, or do I have an opportunity to grow in a different direction that I didn't anticipate? So, dewiz, thank you for changing my life. Finally, there was this from Jose Carvajal, who says, in the Dominican Republic, the startup SOS Biotech is making organic fertilizer out of it. Really cool idea, and they say it's really good. There were several comments from people in different islands in the Caribbean that all pointed to different companies that make fertilizer out of this. So, yeah, the simplicity of, like. I mean, the brilliance of let's take it and let's make methane, or let's take it and let's make cosmetic products, or let's take it and make fabric and clothing, like, all that is fantastic, but also just the simplicity of. All right, this is vegetation. If we let it break down into its component parts, yeah, it's fertilizer.
Matt Ferrell: So it also shows that when there's a market opportunity, there's gonna be a gold rush of people trying to get in on it. So it's like, it doesn't. It doesn't surprise me that there's lots of companies that people were bringing up, because there's a huge amount of opportunity here.
Sean Ferrell: And finally, the best worst comment. JoPo, you're on a roll. I said it last week or the week before. JoPo, your. Your username rings a bell. I think we've talked about you before now, I'm sure. Yes. So JoPo jumps in to say the best worst comment. I was going to make a joke mocking the benefits of seaweed, but it would probably just sound like sargassum.
Matt Ferrell: Oh, man.
Sean Ferrell: Thank you, Jopo. Thank you.
Matt Ferrell: Slow clap on that one.
Sean Ferrell: Slowest of slow claps. Listeners, viewers, what did you think about this? Jump into the comments and let us know. And while you're commenting, don't forget to subscribe to, like and to share it with your friends. Those are all very easy ways for you to support the podcast. And if you'd like to support us more directly, you can click the join button on YouTube or you can go to stilltbd fm. Click the join button there. Both of those ways let you throw coins at our heads. We appreciate the welts. And then we get down to the heavy, heavy business of trying not to be sarcastic. Was I close?
Matt Ferrell: I know.
Sean Ferrell: Thank you everybody for taking the time to watch or listen. We'll talk to you next time.