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Welcome to Learn with Dr. Emily, the podcast. Where parents and teachers come together for neurodivergent youth. I’m your host, Dr. Emily King, child psychologist and former school psychologist specializing in raising and teaching children and teens diagnosed with autism, ADHD, anxiety, learning disabilities, and/or giftedness. Each week, I share my thoughts on a topic related to psychology, parenting, education, or parent-teacher collaboration, which you can read on my blog or listen here.
If you want to learn more about me and my online resources for parents and teachers, visit www.learnwithdremily.com. Let’s get started.
learnwithdremily.substack.com
Emily Daniels - 00:00:05:
I mean, the whole field of somatic psychology is just exploding. Which is fabulous because I feel like, there's more recognition, more understanding of these things that we're talking about, more credibility to them. And it's finally starting to penetrate the field of education.
Emily King - 00:00:27:
Welcome to Season 2 of the Learn with Dr. Emily podcast, where parents and teachers come together for neurodivergent youth. I'm your host, Dr. Emily King, child psychologist and former school psychologist. And I am on a mission to help everyone understand that nurturing neurodivergent children isn't about changing them, but about changing us. This season, I will be bringing you more interviews from some of my favorite colleagues related to neurodiversity, education, mental health, and parenting. You can learn more about my resources for educators and parents at learnwithdremily.com or just keep listening here. So let's get started with today's interview. Hey, y'all, and welcome back to the Learn with Dr. Emily podcast. Today, I am interviewing Emily Daniels, who is the creator of The Regulated Classroom. So a little bit first about Emily. She is the author and creator of The Regulated Classroom, a former school counselor and a proud soccer mom. She is internationally recognized. That's in your bio. Did you know that? She is internationally recognized as a trauma specialist and trainer in the trauma-informed schools movement and has served thousands through in-person and virtual professional development training, workshops, conferences, and keynotes. Emily and her work have been featured in the Associated Press, Fox News, ABC News, the LA Times, and NPR. She holds a master's of education in school counseling and an MBA in organizational and environmental sustainability and is a nationally certified counselor. She continually refines her understanding of applied science of trauma through training and varied modalities, including somatic experiencing, Sensory Motor Arousal Therapy or SMART, trauma-informed sensory modulation, and mindfulness-based stress reduction. So we are clearly here to talk all about regulation today, and this one especially is going to be for teachers. So Emily, will you tell us what is The Regulated Classroom and what inspired you to create this resource for educators?
Emily Daniels - 00:02:33:
Thank you. Thank you, Emily, so much for having me. I know we're Emily and Emily.
Emily King - 00:02:36:
We're going to be confusing with our Emilys.
Emily Daniels - 00:02:38:
I know, seriously. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me to this conversation. I'm excited to talk with you. Yeah, so the regulated classroom is actually a framework. It's a way to think about what are the quality of experiences in the classroom that teachers or educators of any kind and kids really benefit from, in terms of buffering stress and trauma and also in enhancing joy in the classroom environment. So it's a framework to help them think about that and to help them kind of have a point, a touch point, if you will, cognitively speaking. For when they feel like they're noticing that they're starting to get super stressed. Or they're noticing that the kids in the classroom are dysregulated and that's starting to affect their nervous system. The way for them to think about, oh, I can try this, I can do this, I can use this to get us back to a state of regulation.
Emily King - 00:03:39:
Yeah, and I love this so much because, you know, as anyone listening knows, I present a lot to teachers and educators about what to do to support neurodivergent students, how to do those things. But as you and I both know, we cannot do all the things until we are regulated first. And you said to buffer some of those stressors that are happening. So what does trauma-informed mean to you in the school setting? I think I want to start with helping teachers understand these words we throw around a lot as mental health providers of trauma-informed and polyvagal theory. What do you want them to first understand as the foundation of their nervous systems when they're in a classroom?
Emily Daniels - 00:04:24:
Yeah, it's a great question. So, for many, many years when I worked as a school counselor, I was always trying to support students from a perspective of like... Um, you know, sort of like a problem-solving perspective, like there must be a skills deficit, and so that's why they struggle in this way. And then I attended a conference put on by Bessel van der Kolk. And it was there that I first discovered this concept of being trauma-informed. Which means understanding that a lot of the behaviors that we see in the classroom or a lot of the ways in which we struggle as adults is very much related to our own lived experiences. And that our bodies and our nervous system, which is the system within the body that kind of automatically enables life and automatically cares for us. It's what supports our heartbeat and our digestion and our blood pressure and all those sorts of things. That the system shifts often depending on how we are doing in the moment. And so to me, being trauma-informed meant starting to apply that understanding as opposed to seeing things through the lens of what's wrong with someone. And that's a big shift because that was my training. I'm sure that was your training too as a psychologist is like, okay, what are the ways in which this person is maybe, or this child is maybe pathological truthfully. And so I did a lot of like, oh, I think this kid has ADHD. I think this kid has anxiety. I think this kid might be bipolar. And always looking through the world through the lens of what's missing and what's the deficit. And to be trauma-informed, in my opinion, is to shift that and say, huh, what's going on for this child or this person and what's their lived experience been and how can we help them to, and how we can support them in their current state to shift into a body state that would be more reflective of safety and regulation? It's a very different lens. I don't even know if I'm doing a good job of explaining that.
Emily King - 00:06:30:
You are. And I'll just add to that. I absolutely had this training, which I basically refer to as the medical model of things. You have a problem. You go see a provider. They diagnose you with something. And then they give you a treatment for that something. But these are not ear infections that can respond to antibiotics. This is much more complex. And yes, children may have ADHD and trauma, or they may have some trauma that's making them look really active in certain situations. And that dynamic is more relational. And so we're looking for both, really, because you want to figure out if it is trauma-based or just anxiety-driven that's only popping up in certain relationships or certain settings, that can help educators know what to do next, right? And it's also reminding me of that phrase of, thinking about what's happened to this child, not what's wrong with this child, but what has happened to this child, to this. Even kindergartners come in with a possible preschool experience that could be, or no experience, that could be making their nervous system any kind of way when they come into a classroom. So how does that connect with what we're all learning about Polyvagal theory. And what would you want educators to know about Polyvagal theory, which everyone gets a little scared because it's a big word, but it's all connected, right?
Emily Daniels - 00:08:01:
It's very connected. It's so funny too, because even listening to you talk, I'm thinking to myself. Yeah, I just don't ever think in diagnostic terms anymore. I really don't. I just see everything through the lens of the nervous system and the states of the nervous system. So what does that mean? That means... So... Yeah, there was this gentleman, Dr. Stephen Porges, who developed this theory. In 1994. And it's only really penetrating like mass consciousness now, because that's how things are. It takes time for people to learn about this orientation or this paradigm. But to me, when I met his theory, which was, again, at Bessel's conference, It was truly life-altering for me because He explained things that I never had language for before. So let me give you an example. And when I first learned about polyvagal theory, it was through the work of Dr. Peter Levine and his modality of Somatic Experiencing. And even when I heard that term somatic experiencing, I connected with it. Because somatic stands for body-based, basically. So it's like, what are you experiencing in your body? And I remember... And when I first. Met that concept, I was like, Yes. Oh, my goodness. Because when I would work with students or when I would experience my own suffering in life, there was a very powerful visceral experience in that that was unnamed and unacknowledged. So like I remember and have had those experiences where you're walking around with a huge lump in your throat. And like an incredible ache in your heart or ache in your chest or like a knot in your belly. And when I was experiencing those things internally. It was absolutely affecting my behavior and my mindset and the way I thought about things. And I was like, yeah, that's really the driver for a lot of what I'm experiencing and what I'm doing in a moment. And that is polyvagal theory. That's recognizing that your body's physiology, is actually the platform through which all behavior is expressed. And it's also the filter through which you are seeing the world. So when you are walking around in a state of rage, you see things very differently than if you're walking around in a regulated state. So yeah, it's just, it's so polyvagal is just such to me, it's the most revolutionary concept related to psychology. Probably since Freud's time, right? And it really does challenge a lot of that, his work, but it's revolutionary, truly.
Emily King - 00:10:41:
And the reason I think we are both so passionate about continuing to talk to educators about this is that if anyone has ever spent time in a classroom, it's like an onslaught to your nervous system. It's like noises and sounds and there are people in your space all the time. Like if there's anyone whose nervous system is at risk for being overwhelmed, it is educators.
Emily Daniels - 00:11:08:
100%. Like 110%. Truly. And here's the thing, too, that I think is what's exciting to me is that given how much we are struggling in our profession as educators, so I'm talking about classroom teachers and special education teachers and occupational therapists and school counselors. I mean, all of them, the paraeducators, like everybody is really struggling in that profession. And that is because we have been inundated with overwhelm, collective overwhelm from the pandemic, from school shootings, from the ways kids show up at schools today. That we can end up feeling like oh my God, I'm no good at this. Like I can't get a handle on this and I'm a failure at this. Or you can feel overwhelming shame or just... Even I talk about it in terms of going dorsal. I joke about that a lot in my trainings to help educators understand that their nervous system is shifting in defensive ways, in protective ways, naturally. Because they are so overwhelmed in their work. And that's very relieving to a lot of educators to know that it's not a personal failing.
Emily King - 00:12:17:
Yeah, will you say more about or give an example of going dorsal? Because I think that's, I want teachers to hear permission of like, this is not a choice.
Emily Daniels - 00:12:25:
Right, exactly. And that's the biggest piece too, for me is. Again, with the polyvagal theory, it's recognizing that when our bodies are not experiencing explicit cues of safety from other people or the environment. That our body shifts into a protective state. And it's not a conscious thing. It's just literally a shift. And so when I talk to educators about it, I say, do you ever notice that like when you step over the threshold in the morning entering into your school, you notice your heart rate increases and suddenly you just tense? I said, yeah, that's your body bracing for what's coming your way today. And that's a natural, normal response to too much overwhelm and not enough recovery. So what happens is, to answer your question about going dorsal. What happens is, when there is that much prolonged stress, eventually the body will make an adaptation so that we distance ourselves from that suffering. And so we literally end up going numb. Like functionally speaking, we go numb. We are not present in our experience. We're just there. Like we're going through the motions, but we're not really there. You know what I'm saying? So I talk to them a lot of, and like, when I start to describe that, they're like, oh my God. Yeah, totally. They're like, that's a hundred percent what I do. Like I get there and I do my job, but I'm not really there.
Emily King - 00:13:48:
Right. Because at this point, many seasoned anyone, seasoned educators, seasoned therapists, seasoned parents, you can go on autopilot because you've been doing it so long. But you're calling it in as a coping mechanism to get through the day. So if you feel that calling it in thing, it may feel like you're maintaining, you're getting it done. But at what cost? Like this is so exhausting for our bodies. So you're explaining what my next question was, which is, you know, talking about the autonomic nervous system and this like stress cycle we go through and we have a stressor and then we have a recovery after that. Could you give an example of like something a teacher might notice, like going over the threshold is a great one, but especially with like an interaction with a student, something a teacher might notice and be like the first signal. What would be the first signal of their stress response that's sending their autonomic nervous system into that cycle?
Emily Daniels - 00:14:46:
Yeah. Yeah. So it can depend. It can look a little bit different depending on the circumstance, but one of those circumstances is, or one of those, I think, pretty powerful inner experiences is when you start to feel the storm begin to surge on the inside. And you're noticing like you're having a hard time even. Like, coming up with something to say or a way in which to react that isn't explosive. And there's a lot, I mean, there's a lot of reasons for that. And it's not because the perso is out of control, who experiencing that. It's because the circumstance is so heightened. And for them, if it's been a repetitive kind of circumstance, like a student is particularly challenged or scary. That can happen with some of our students. Their behaviors can be quite scary. It's natural for their bodies to be very protective. And when that happens, they're starting to feel that sense of like, what would be mobilization, which is, in polyvagal terms, a defense mobilization is that fight-flight reaction starting to take hold. And they would notice perhaps an increased heart rate. Harder time breathing. A harder time even really formulating a compassionate response. So when they start to notice that, and that's a lot what I work with with educators is like, let's dial into what's happening for you in this moment? And throughout my trainings, when I train folks, I'm literally asking them that question and saying to them, I'm going to be annoying. And I'm going to say to you, what do you notice happening on the inside right now? And I'm constantly doing that through the course of training to try to bring them back to noticing self, noticing state, noticing where they are in their nervous system functioning. Because if they're not able to be self-aware, they may unintentionally and inadvertently be contributing to an escalation with a student or students.
Emily King - 00:16:45:
Right. And I think that first step is being aware of it because there are many parents and educators who have been living in survival state for so long, you may not even be aware of what you're feeling. And there's an, if there's an exhaustion there, you're, you're feeling it. You're just maybe not registering it. So once, once teachers start to notice it, what next? This question of like every educator is like, well, what do we do now?
Emily Daniels - 00:17:17:
Right. Well, there's a, so in the framework that I offer, there's these four qualities, and I know I'm kind of jumping.
Emily King - 00:17:22:
No, let's jump into them.
Emily Daniels - 00:17:24:
Okay, yeah, there's these four qualities of experience that we know help to essentially bring us back into a state of regulation and their practices of co-regulation. And there's connectors, activators, settlers, and affirmations. So one of the things that I'm always encouraging is for them to be, using these practices with great frequency in tiny doses, in micro doses as a form of actually prevention. Because there isn't a lot that's happening in the classroom environment at this point in time. That's really acknowledging or caring for the collective nervous system. There's just... We're very academically focused and or classroom management. Yeah. And or classroom management focus. So it's like, we're not really actually thinking about what our biology requires for best performance. So, I have them, you know, consciously be dosing in these quality of experiences to try to help keep the collective nervous system in there more regulated. However, when they start to notice activation or going dorsal, there are tools. I have sensory toolkits that actually are part of my products that I teach them how to use, to help them gain a sense of regulation in a moment. And then to engage in a core practice. So it's like, self-awareness is the first step. And then when they start to notice that things are heading towards protective states. That they are to reach for a sensory tool and or begin a practice in the moment. So it's like you literally drop what you're doing and do a practice. And I train in that way, so they are very accustomed to, by the time they're done training with me, they have a sense of what I'm talking about. Because it's natural and normal for people to lose focus and to check out or to get dysregulated in some way. And, you know, it's important for us to kind of come back together and do something regulating together.
Emily King - 00:19:27:
Yeah, and I'm sitting here thinking about, you know, just the pace with which teachers move through their day. And if they are on autopilot because of a survival state and they're doing their thing and they're moving forward. And if they may be feeling worried. If I stop and feel my body and take a breath or slow down, it's all going to fall apart. And so there's a fear there, I bet, of shifting. I'm sure this is a huge part of just the mindset shift of, I'm going to try something different. But I think, you know, just practicing those connectors, like you said, when as prevention, when things are calmer and and just making them there, I'm assuming would be so short, right? Can you give an example or two of a connector that you're-
Emily Daniels - 00:20:14:
Oh, that's so short.
Emily King - 00:20:15:
To help people know how short they are. So you don't need to be fearful that you're going to like lose control of your classroom. It's actually going to help.
Emily Daniels - 00:20:22:
Right. Right, exactly. So the connectors are play-based practices for the most part, and they're a way for us to just kind of reestablish a relational connection and relational belonging. And so one of the ones that I use frequently in trainings, and then they take back to their classrooms, is called 1-2-3-4. And so one is you clap your hands three times. Two is that you stomp right-left. Three is that you cluck like a chicken and you purposely open your mouth wide while you're doing it because that's actually a way to stimulate the vagus nerve. So you're like, you're opening up that realm of social engagement. And then the fourth is to turn to someone next to you and pretend like you're seeing them for the first time in a long time. And so it's like. And again, you're opening on purpose the whole realm of social engagement. Because the thing about, like, when folks start to dig into polyvagal theory, there's so much to it. And one of the things that just resonates powerfully for me and for a lot of educators, is this recognition that like, our whole face and our vocal structures and our listening mechanisms. These are all been sophisticatedly, they've evolved in sophisticated ways. Such that this is the primary way in which we convey cues of safety and receive them from others. And so a lot of educators don't know that. Some of us know that, like psychologists and counselors, because we're trained. In our training, we learn about the importance of modulating our voice and eye contact, intermittent eye contact and those sorts of things. But a lot of educators don't know these things, and so it's eye-opening for them. Coupled with we talk and we work with. A lot of this realm of social engagement was closed off for a number of years due to the pandemic. And so we, yeah. So it's like, some of our kids really haven't experienced a lot of social projection from the facial and vocal structures because they were, you know. People in their vicinity were masked and whatnot. Yeah, there's a lot of residue from the pandemic that has impacted our ability to share cues of safety with one another.
Emily King - 00:22:31:
Well, and I think too, some of these connectors come naturally to some people's personalities. And I know as a parent, you feel that like if you have a certain, if your child has a teacher who's musical or your child has a teacher who's just energetically likes to move a lot, you get this feeling of like, and kids will see like, oh, this teacher's fun or this teacher gets us organized and ready to work. But those are, yes, those are all aligned with sometimes personalities. But, this is not happening by accident. This is actually regulating student nervous systems and getting them ready to work. So it's not just because that teacher likes music, you know, all that we know about music and movement and like stomping your feet in the bilateral movement of that and grounding. So what else would you say about teachers who feel like they're, first of all, some of the things I'm sure that you're, I know you mentioned as connectors, they may feel silly doing them, right? Like they feel like it's outside of their personality. I guess what would be helpful for them to make this jump and like, no, this is really going to change the way that you interact with your students.
Emily Daniels - 00:23:45:
Yeah, well, one of the things that I talk often about is the benefit of using nostalgia on purpose in the classroom. So what's so cool is when you start to move into this polyvagal perspective, you start to see the world through a somatic lens, meaning you start to have more, I guess regard for inborn wisdom, like implicit knowing, body-based wisdom, that kind of thing. And one of the things that helps us to recognize this treasure trove of positive associations we have in our body memory is to work with nostalgia. So I, in fact, I started a training the other day and I put up two pictures on the, and this was a virtual training with about 65 people. And I put up two pictures. And one was of the viewfinder. I don't know if you remember that from like the 80s, like the thing that you used to look through and it had like a little cartridge. And the other picture was of an Easy-Bake oven. And the amount of just like sheer joy from people seeing those two pictures. Because it brings them back. And music can do that for us big time as well. And so, within the regulated classroom, there's quite a few practices that I have included there on purpose to help us incite that nostalgia so that when we go to share some of these quality of experiences with our students, we are literally showing up as our joyful selves in an authentic way. Because we remember doing these things. And we remember the joy that it brought us. And now we're sharing that with the kids. And that's very contagious. So nostalgia is a great place to start.
Emily King - 00:25:23:
I love that.
Emily Daniels - 00:25:24:
And I tell teachers all the time or educators all the time, I'm like, I'm going to take you through a lot of different experiences. When you first hear the directions, you're going to cringe. You're going to think, I hate this. And I want you to notice that in your nervous system. And then I want you to notice how you actually feel after we're done doing this. And, you know, and I've done this with literally thousands of people. And it's remarkable and it's consistent. It's like I noticed the stress response because it was something new or something different. But then once we did it, I felt so great. I felt more regulated. I felt more grounded. Because the practices all contain these really robust quality of experiences that we know humans benefit from. And we know that kids need these quality of experiences. So one of the things I hear most often from people is like, well, this sounds great for like elementary school kids, but I'm not doing this stuff with high schoolers. Like these high schoolers don't want to do this. And what I say to them, it, Yes, they do. And yes, they need this so desperately. Our kids, our teens are so socially isolated, so many of them. And they desperately need these social experiences. They support their sequential development, and they're sorely lacking in our technological landscape. You know, of childhood today. And because of the pandemic, a lot of kids had really restricted social experiences through the pandemic too.
Emily King - 00:26:49:
You're reminding me of just in my therapy practice, I have like a regular therapy room with like couches and chairs. And then I have a playroom with beanbags and all kinds of things, all kinds of things. And you would think that middle schoolers and high schoolers would walk right by the playroom and be like, no, I'm fine. I'll sit on the therapy couch. You know what catches their eye? Play-Doh. They're like, can we play with Play-Doh while we talk? I'm like, absolutely. And so you just have to expose them to some things and catch their engagement and catch their interest. And you wouldn't believe what Play-Doh will do for getting kids to talk. So, um, it just reminded me of that. So let's talk about activators. So what are some of your favorite strategies once we were feeling connected? And again, these aren't linear. You're doing these, I'm sure, in and out of all these moments. But once you feel like at least you have the foundation of you could, you know, pull out a connector anytime you need it. Tell me more about activators and what that means?
Emily Daniels - 00:27:56:
Yeah, so connectors are, they're relational practices rooted in play. Activators, by contrast, I mean, often many of them are quite playful, but they all contain a collective rhythm-making quality or feature to the experience. And so this is reall quite absent in our school environment. Especially at the middle school and high school level. There's just nothing that we're doing intentionally in the classroom to generate collective synchrony and to make collective rhythm. And what we know from an abundance of research is that rhythm, in particular, is regulating. And Dr. Bruce Perry does a beautiful job of explaining why that is. But again, it's so, so when I start a lot of my trainings, I usually start with rhythm sticks. That's literally how we start before we do anything. I like get up there and I'm like, okay, guys, if you know, this might be too much for, from an auditory standpoint for some of you, you know, if so, then. Do what you need to do to care for yourself. I'll put a song on and we start rhythm sticking it. And I can't tell you how much that has spread like wildfire. Some of the work that I do is at the state level or a statewide level. I have a contract in the state of Maine currently that, so I'm training a ton of trainers in this framework. And one of the things that they report is that they immediately go back, get themselves some rhythm sticks and bring them right into the classroom. And the kids and staff are loving it. So there's lots of different ways to do collective rhythm making. It doesn't have to look like that, but it's joyful. It's truly joyful. But most importantly, it's very organizing for the for the nervous system.
Emily King - 00:29:34:
Right. So activators are more getting us organized and alert and engaged and in rhythm versus connectors are just increasing that engagement.
Emily Daniels - 00:29:46:
Exactly. The thing about it, too, is that activators, and I always say this to folks, that's actually the best place to start with the framework if you're going to start anywhere is to try an activator for like. 30 seconds. And to just go very slow and to go, meaning like dip a toe in with it. Because we have such a need to synchronize with other people and actually in the literature. It's usually more called like attuning to someone else, but really we're getting in sync with someone else. And that's very important to the experience of self-safety. So activators are very powerful experiences. They give us a joyful experience with other people and they help us feel safe with one another. Yeah, they're amazing.
Emily King - 00:30:34:
Yeah, they are. And I think, you know, it just reminds me of all the co-regulation research and how, you know, in play therapy, we call this rocking the baby. But with an older kid, you know, you can't we're not rocking eight year olds anymore, but you can play in a way and and get in a rhythm with an eight year old. That's like 100 percent same feeling of 100 percent in a baby. A hundred percent. And they need it and they need it and they need it. And it not only helps to support their... You know, own capacities for self-regulation eventually. But it actually helps us repair our nervous systems from too much overwhelm. Because that's the thing about the framework is it's like, not just supporting the kids, it's also in there trying to help the educators repair their own overwhelm. And widen their window of tolerance. But it actually helps us repair our nervous systems from too much overwhelm. Because that's the thing about the framework is it's like, not just supporting the kids, it's also in there trying to help the educators repair their own overwhelm. And widen their window of tolerance. Right, because we never got this, right? Like we never got much practice in this. The closest we would have gotten to this is if you were into music or drumming or dance and you noticed, I was into music and dance growing up and I always noticed less stress at those times of my week or my day, never put it together until I was an adult and learned more about what was actually happening in my body. 100%, 100%, exactly, exactly. So what are settlers and when do we need them? And when would a teacher need to use one of those? Right. So I'm just going to keep reviewing the framework. So what are settlers and when do we need them? And when would a teacher need to use one of those? Right. So I'm just going to keep reviewing the framework. So the framework is four core practices, connectors, activators, settlers, affirmations. And these are the quality of experiences that support. Sequential growth and development, and buffer stress and trauma. So connectors are play-based, activators are collective rhythm-making practices, settlers... Are practices that settle the body. They center us, they ground us, they make us feel calmer. And these usually have come into our schools in the form of school-wide mindfulness practices or school-wide yoga. Are practices that settle the body. They center us, they ground us, they make us feel calmer. And these usually have come into our schools in the form of school-wide mindfulness practices or school-wide yoga. You know, those are the two most common that you hear about. But one of the things that I encountered when I was doing this kind of work. As a school counselor, is that I would... I would. Inevitably come upon teachers or students who would say, I don't like that. And I was like, oh gosh, what do you mean you don't like it? I don't, I can't. Stand mindfulness. I can't stand trying to be still. And I was like, oh gosh, what do you mean you don't like it? I don't, I can't. Stand mindfulness. I can't stand trying to be still. I can't stand trying to not think. That kind of thing. And so in the settler practices in the regulated classroom, they're essentially like a there are like an array of opportunities to determine what helps your body settle down. Because not all settling comes in the form of yoga or comes in the form of meditation. Meaning, People can get there, but I want them to find an entry point that immediately connects with their nervous system and helps them to calm down. So, um, Yeah, so that's basically what they are about. A lot of times I will say to folks, it's good for you to try a settling practice when you notice you're just feeling like a frenzy, especially on the inside, when the inside feels like it's really kind of chaotic and out of control, that's when you need some grounding support, you know, like some Self-Hug Grounding Support. Meaning, People can get there, but I want them to find an entry point that immediately connects with their nervous system and helps them to calm down. So, um, Yeah, so that's basically what they are about. A lot of times I will say to folks, it's good for you to try a settling practice when you notice you're just feeling like a frenzy, especially on the inside, when the inside feels like it's really kind of chaotic and out of control, that's when you need some grounding support, you know, like some Self-Help Grounding Support. And you. Not only can you use your nervous system as your own barometer, so if you need it. And just about guaranteed, it's because the kids are in need of it. You know, we're contagious in our nervous system states. And so when The kids are not doing well. Neither are we, right? Our nervous systems get really activated. So that's when you use settlers. Neither are we, right? Our nervous systems get really activated. So that's when you use settlers. And it's important for them to use settlers and activators intentionally throughout the course of the day, because what they're doing is they're trying to widen their window of... Distress tolerance. And so they're getting mobilized, but within a regulated state. And then they're coming down and they're settling and they're dropping their baseline from a physiological standpoint as they settle and slow their heart rate and their breathing. And so they want, you want. I want them to be doing this with the students over and over and over again as much as they possibly can. And do you ever recommend, you know, the almost a routine practice of grounding, you know, like before, I'm just thinking of like how easy this could be incorporated into a morning meeting, where it becomes routines, as we know, any type of grounding or mindfulness practice, one of the reasons that we don't like it is because it feels foreign, it feels hard, it feels like, I can't turn off my brain, my brain's going 1000 miles an hour, because we're out of practice. There's a reason yoga is called a practice or mindfulness called a practice. I want them to be doing this with the students over and over and over again as much as they possibly can. And do you ever recommend, you know, the almost a routine practice of grounding, you know, like before, I'm just thinking of like how easy this could be incorporated into a morning meeting, where it becomes routines, as we know, any type of grounding or mindfulness practice, one of the reasons that we don't like it is because it feels foreign, it feels hard, it feels like, I can't turn off my brain, my brain's going 1000 miles an hour, because we're out of practice. There's a reason yoga is called a practice or mindfulness called a practice. Yes, that's exactly right. These are all practices. Yes, absolutely. And so what I, in the guidebook that I have, I actually lay out sort of how could this look as part of the routines of the classroom. At the preschool level, at the elementary level, at the secondary level, because there are different structures at those different grade levels. But I absolutely encourage them to, in a prevention way, microdose it in. With regularity and then to also use it as they feel it's needed. Because the best part about it is this is not a 40-minute social-emotional learning lesson. But I absolutely encourage them to, in a prevention way, microdose it in. With regularity and then to also use it as they feel it's needed. Because the best part about it is this is not a 40-minute social-emotional learning lesson. This is a... Literal microdose repair. So this is 30 seconds to four minutes at most. To just dose in these quality of experiences to just kind of, it's a reset, right? It's a reset for your nervous system and for theirs. And in many ways, what I think both of us talk about in our work is this is not like one more thing to teach in a long, like sit down and learn it thing, which is how education is framed, right? But we're throwing that idea out. It's a reset for your nervous system and for theirs. And in many ways, what I think both of us talk about in our work is this is not like one more thing to teach in a long, like sit down and learn it thing, which is how education is framed, right? But we're throwing that idea out. And this is like, like, as you know, we know all of this is bottom up. So let's, I want to talk about affirmations in a second before we dive into that. Can we talk a little bit more about that window of tolerance you were talking about and, and that bottom up feeling? Cause that's a huge mindset shift because education is so top down. It's like, here's the curriculum, let's get it into the brains. It's all cognitive. Tell everybody more about what we mean by that. It's like, here's the curriculum, let's get it into the brains. It's all cognitive. Tell everybody more about what we mean by that. Yeah. So great question, Em. Thank you for it. So bottom up means that we're recognizing that the brain... Is processing its information through the sensory systems literally bottom up. And so if those sensory messages come in and they're coupled with cues of threat or they are overwhelming because the sensory stimuli in the classroom is overwhelming, the way in which that gets processed in the brain is going to have a dysregulating effect on our nervous system state. It's going to cause us to look stressed, right? Or to experience stress. And so if those sensory messages come in and they're coupled with cues of threat or they are overwhelming because the sensory stimuli in the classroom is overwhelming, the way in which that gets processed in the brain is going to have a dysregulating effect on our nervous system state. It's going to cause us to look stressed, right? Or to experience stress. Or for the students to experience stress. So... Bottom up means we are purposely... Um, you know, working with the body's wisdom and the body's needs from a biological perspective. In order to help the brain function in the most efficient, organized way possible. And that primes the brain for. Actual learning, right? So it's like, if things are happening at the lower parts of the brain in a more organized fashion, then guess what? And that primes the brain for. Actual learning, right? So it's like, if things are happening at the lower parts of the brain in a more organized fashion, then guess what? We can teach and deliver inspired instruction, and the students are available for learning. It's like exactly what we've always been wanting. And we have not been able to get to through our current structures. Because of exactly what you said. We think about everything in terms of curriculum, everything about top-down assessment. And it's so funny, when I first developed the framework, I remember people coming to me and being like, well, what is your pre-baseline or your baselined assessment for the regular? I'm like, no, this is not a curriculum. We think about everything in terms of curriculum, everything about top-down assessment. And it's so funny, when I first developed the framework, I remember people coming to me and being like, well, what is your pre-baseline or your baselined assessment for the regular? I'm like, no, this is not a curriculum. There's not going to be any tests involved. There's no, you know. There's no sequence that you have to adhere to. You know, this is... And it really is hard for folks because they're like, what do you mean? Like, that's how we do everything in school. And I'm like, and that's why we're not doing so hot in school, right? And it really is hard for folks because they're like, what do you mean? Like, that's how we do everything in school. And I'm like, and that's why we're not doing so hot in school, right? That's a big reason why things. Aren't going the way we want them to. So it's an excellent question. But what's beautiful about it is that we can look to places like clinical psychology in that field and see how things are moving more in that direction there. I mean, the whole field of somatic psychology is just exploding. Which is fabulous because I feel like there's more recognition, more understanding of these things that we're talking about, more credibility to them. And it's finally starting to penetrate the field of education. I mean, the whole field of somatic psychology is just exploding. Which is fabulous because I feel like there's more recognition, more understanding of these things that we're talking about, more credibility to them. And it's finally starting to penetrate the field of education. Yeah. And where I see it in my work is this cross-section with neurodiversity, because our neurodivergent kids have such sensitive nervous systems. This is the only way they can learn. The only way they can learn is to be regulated. And it really is the only way everyone can learn. But. Exactly. Neurotypical learners tend to have an ability to override some of these things with executive functioning and organization that helps them kind of, quote unquote, get through school. I was one of those students that I just I got through school and loved school, went to school for a very long time, got a doctorate in the psychology of school. So but looking back, I realized, you know, the test anxiety I had. But. Exactly. Neurotypical learners tend to have an ability to override some of these things with executive functioning and organization that helps them kind of, quote unquote, get through school. I was one of those students that I just I got through school and loved school, went to school for a very long time, got a doctorate in the psychology of school. So but looking back, I realized, you know, the test anxiety I had. The. The times where I didn't. Really start thinking for myself until later than I should have, right? Because I was just checking the boxes of school. So I get really passionate about, you know, helping kids have more authentic school experiences based on that. Mindset shift. So thank you. I was not, I was not that student, not until much later, not until like college, because I, and I think that's part of why I'm passionate about what the work I do is because had more of these experiences been a part of my schooling. I would have done so much better and been so much more. Mindset shift. So thank you. I was not, I was not that student, not until much later, not until like college, because I, and I think that's part of why I'm passionate about what the work I do is because had more of these experiences been a part of my schooling. I would have done so much better and been so much more. Regulated in the classroom environment, you know, and it wasn't like I was a behavior issue per se, but I just was not engaged. I wasn't engaged. It just didn't. Environment was... Yeah, I was, I... Did not thrive in a fully cognitive environment. And I was a student who over-functioned into it and probably music and movement and dance and all of that just kept me regulated and I didn't know it. Yeah. So it's fascinating what we think about when we look back on our own school experiences. Did not thrive in a fully cognitive environment. And I was a student who over-functioned into it and probably music and movement and dance and all of that just kept me regulated and I didn't know it. Yeah. So it's fascinating what we think about when we look back on our own school experiences. Right. Yep. Yeah, totally. Yeah, so the... The fourth practice in the list is affirmations. So tell us a few of your favorite affirmations and when teachers would use these. Yeah, so part of why I included affirmations in the core practices was... A little bit to challenge our thinking about reinforcement as it's most commonly discussed in a PBIS model. So, of course, trained in a PBIS model, chaired that in two of my schools. Yeah, so part of why I included affirmations in the core practices was... A little bit to challenge our thinking about reinforcement as it's most commonly discussed in a PBIS model. So, of course, trained in a PBIS model, chaired that in two of my schools. You know, went on to be like a, you know, like. Anyways. Very into PBIS at the time, because that was the thing at the time, but found it to be a big deal. Overwhelmingly ineffectual. And so. One of the things that was noted in that is just that we would try and reinforce, you know, the correct behaviors or the compliant behaviors or the expected behaviors. And not that that doesn't have its place. I mean, I believe in praise and it's powerful and it's good for people to hear those sorts of things. You know, time, experience, reward for certain things. And not that that doesn't have its place. I mean, I believe in praise and it's powerful and it's good for people to hear those sorts of things. You know, time, experience, reward for certain things. But, um, in the regulated classroom, affirmations are about... Genuine embodied gratitude. So it's about those moments that you have with your students. Where you're like, this is good. Right, where it's like a real ventral vagal. Collective ventral vagal shift. And this is polyvagal terms, but In polyvagal terms, when we're in a ventral state, we're in a regulated state in our physiology. Right, where it's like a real ventral vagal. Collective ventral vagal shift. And this is polyvagal terms, but In polyvagal terms, when we're in a ventral state, we're in a regulated state in our physiology. And so it's important for us to hold space and time when we experience that with our students. To really savor it. That's the language of Deb Dana. That's what an affirmation is. So it's... There are some practices within the guidebook that are cute. Like, you know, soaring gratitude, which is how you, you know, make paper airplanes with an affirmation that you write on the back of it, and then you send it through the classroom for others to read. Stuff like that. So it's... There are some practices within the guidebook that are cute. Like, you know, soaring gratitude, which is how you, you know, make paper airplanes with an affirmation that you write on the back of it, and then you send it through the classroom for others to read. Stuff like that. But... Really, it's more about taking a cognitive, this is the one thing that is more cognitive. It's sort of taking the cognitive mind and doubling down on. Noticing collectively that things are good right now, right? That like in my belly, I'm feeling this sense of release and just. Um, you know, Comfort. As I'm with you all right now. So it's more about the educator and or the students. Um, you know, Comfort. As I'm with you all right now. So it's more about the educator and or the students. Communicating. Out loud to one another or in some way, expressing in some way. That they're experiencing gratitude in a moment. And that's very important because we are overwhelmed with cues of threat and danger. In a classroom environment that we need to double down on moments of true belonging. True regulation. Through safety. Um, And they do happen or like joy. Like when we're having a joyful moment in the classroom. True regulation. Through safety. Um, And they do happen or like joy. Like when we're having a joyful moment in the classroom. They really do happen. And it's like. We're not wasting time to be like, Hey, y'all, how are we doing? Because I'm feeling right now in my belly like so good. How about you guys? You know, that kind of thing. Yeah. And I think when you describe it, I'm thinking back to the beginning of our conversation of noticing. How about you guys? You know, that kind of thing. Yeah. And I think when you describe it, I'm thinking back to the beginning of our conversation of noticing. Triggers, noticing tension, noticing bracing yourself going into the classroom. This is also noticing, of course, but noticing the good stuff. We have to notice both and we have to teach our kids to notice both so that we can find that balance and feel like it's all worth it. Right. Exactly, Emily, like exactly. And I'm loving that you're totally resonating with what I'm describing. And that's it really is important. And it's really important for, more than anything, it's really important for solid relationships. And I'm loving that you're totally resonating with what I'm describing. And that's it really is important. And it's really important for, more than anything, it's really important for solid relationships. What I think I am able to provide for educators is a real actionable way to build relationships with students in the classroom. And we talk about that a lot in the literature. And we talk about that a lot, like the importance of safe relationships for kids and for healing trauma. But we don't know how to do that. And one of the things we have to recognize too is that the body will take over and protect us. When we don't feel safe. And so in the regulated classroom, I'm really honoring that. And one of the things we have to recognize too is that the body will take over and protect us. When we don't feel safe. And so in the regulated classroom, I'm really honoring that. New understanding and that new acknowledgement. And trying to give our bodies what they need in order to feel safe with one another. But really, when... In the grand scheme of things, I'm really trying to give folks a way to make and build relationships with students. That's good for us both. That's good for us and it's good for them. Right. Right. So what is one takeaway you would want to give educators who feel like, okay, I can't go to this training tomorrow, but they're probably making a mental note that they want to. That's good for us both. That's good for us and it's good for them. Right. Right. So what is one takeaway you would want to give educators who feel like, okay, I can't go to this training tomorrow, but they're probably making a mental note that they want to. And what would be a takeaway that they could do tomorrow in their classroom? So I think a couple of different things for them. I would say I wish you grace and I wish you self-compassion. For yourself because you are not a failure. You are not crazy. You are not lazy. You have been enduring under really... You are not crazy. You are not lazy. You have been enduring under really... Exceedingly difficult circumstances. And the fact that you're still there showing up every day is remarkable. So like that's a first starting place of just saying like you're normal. Whatever you're struggling with in the classroom is normal given what you are experiencing. And also, if nothing else. Bring in a piece of music you like. Appropriate of course but Bring in a piece of music that you like. And also, if nothing else. Bring in a piece of music you like. Appropriate of course but Bring in a piece of music that you like. And play. Not the whole thing. But like 60 seconds of it with your students. Just start to... Bring in something that brings you joy. Something that you could microdose in that was a very short little snippet of something, but you know that for you, it actually encourages a nervous system shift. To a more joyful state, to a safer state. That's the beginning point of this work. Something that you could microdose in that was a very short little snippet of something, but you know that for you, it actually encourages a nervous system shift. To a more joyful state, to a safer state. That's the beginning point of this work. And it's not selfish and it's not self-indulgent. It's what your body needs. In order to help you recover from what you've been living through. Yeah. And. I love. The idea of giving... Permission research-based permission to involve music and movement in the classroom because like you said it feels indulgent sometimes or feels distracting I'll never forget my walking by my high school English teacher's room one time this was the 90s and I heard her playing Melissa Etheridge while she was creating papers and I was like Oh, she's cool. Like we instantly have this connection.
Emily Daniels - 00:47:21:
The idea of giving... Permission research-based permission to involve music and movement in the classroom because like you said it feels indulgent sometimes or feels distracting I'll never forget my walking by my high school English teacher's room one time this was the 90s and I heard her playing Melissa Etheridge while she was creating papers and I was like Oh, she's cool. Like we instantly have this connection. And I didn't even say anything to her about it, you know, at the time. And so those moments kids remember like forever because we feel it in our body. So I'm a huge music nerd and will love how we connect psychology and music and all those things. So this has been an awesome, awesome conversation, Emily. Thank you so much. Fantastic. It's just like talking to a kindred spirit. I don't know where we're both on the list.
Emily King - 00:48:12:
Thank you so much. Fantastic. It's just like talking to a kindred spirit. I don't know where we're both on the list. I know. So where can people go to find more about the Regulated Classroom? Yeah, please, please, please. So regulatedclassroom.com. And then also we're on Instagram and Facebook, Regulated Classroom. And so I would encourage you to follow us. Emma, who does our social media on a daily basis, is always on there posting. Fantastic strategies and tips and affirmations and, you know, ways to really make our educators feel supported. Because that's our goal is to help folks feel supported and equipped to do things. Emma, who does our social media on a daily basis, is always on there posting. Fantastic strategies and tips and affirmations and, you know, ways to really make our educators feel supported. Because that's our goal is to help folks feel supported and equipped to do things. Differently so that they can sustain in the work. Yeah, absolutely. Well, all the links will be in the show notes. And so just check out the regulated classroom and Emily's work. And we are very much integrated in helping neurodivergent students and all the teachers that are teaching them. So thanks again. Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Emily King - 00:49:09:
So thanks again. Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's been great. This has been the Learn with Dr. Emily podcast. For more resources, including parent workshops and professional development for teachers, visit learnwithdremily.com or subscribe to my sub stack at learnwithdremily.substack.com. Also, please make sure you're subscribed to the podcast by pressing the follow button on whatever podcast app you're using right now. This podcast is edited by EarFluence. All information discussed on the podcast is for educational purposes only. If you have any immediate concerns about your child or a student, please reach out to a mental health or medical professional. This podcast is edited by EarFluence. All information discussed on the podcast is for educational purposes only. If you have any immediate concerns about your child or a student, please reach out to a mental health or medical professional. I'm Dr. Emily King. Thank you for listening and learning with me. Let's stay connected.