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Welcome to the InForm Fitness Podcast series REWIND, a listen back to the classic interviews we’ve had with high intensity gurus & master trainers. Adam kicks it off with Biomechanics expert Bill DeSimone. In part 2 of 4, Bill talks about the importance of always using a safe limited range of motion.
Now listened to in 100 countries, The InForm Fitness Podcast with Adam Zickerman is a presentation of InForm Fitness Studios, specializing in safe, efficient, High Intensity strength training.
Adam discusses the latest findings in the areas of exercise, nutrition and recovery with leading experts and scientists. We aim to debunk the popular misconceptions and urban myths that are so prevalent in the fields of health and fitness and to replace those sacred cows with scientific-based, up-to-the-minute information on a variety of subjects. The topics covered include exercise protocols and techniques, nutrition, sleep, recovery, the role of genetics in the response to exercise, and much more.
Arlene 0:01
The Inform fitness podcast with Adam Zickerman is a presentation of inform fitness studios specializing in safe, efficient, personal high intensity strength training, in each episode Adam discusses the latest findings in the areas of exercise nutrition and recovery, the three pillars of his New York Times best selling book, The Power of 10. He aims to debunk the popular misconceptions and urban myths that are so prevalent in the fields of health and fitness. And with the opinions of leading experts and scientists, you'll hear scientific based up to the minute information on a variety of subjects. We cover the exercise protocols and techniques of Adoms 20 minute once a week workout, as well as sleep recovery, nutrition, the role of genetics in the response to exercise, and much more.
Adam 0:56
Greetings again, Adam here. Welcome to the inform fitness podcast rewind, our listen back to classic interviews with high intensity gurus, scientists, and authors. This is part two of four with author and personal trainer, and biomechanics expert Bill De Simone. Bill is certainly known for a sensible biomechanics approach to exercise and training, and that it should always be joint friendly. Bill and I are going to be talking about the importance of always using a safe and limited range of motion. Bill and I both agree that everyday life tests us and can in some cases, certainly push and extend our safe limits of range of motion, especially in sports. So later in the episode, we will be talking about should you be working out to extreme ranges of motion if your life or your sport asked for
Bill DeSimone 1:43
it. I'm saying limit range of motion because that might be the verbiage that we understand and maybe listeners would understand, it's really a lot more complicated than just saying use this range of motion. So for instance, in a low back exercise, a stiff legged deadlift, when I used to misinterpret that by using a full range of motion, I'd be standing on a bench with a barbell, and the barbell would be at shoe level, my knees would be locked, my lower back would be rounded, my shoulders would be up by my ears as I'm trying to get the bar off the ground. And so yes, I was using a full range of motion.
Adam 2:20
And I go to a chiropractor just listening to that. Exactly,
Bill DeSimone 2:23
yeah, but you still see it all the time. You see it all the time when people are using kettlebells. You see that exact posture, right? The kettlebells between their legs and knees are locked, the low back is rounded. And then now they're doing a speed lead, at least I was doing I'm slow. They're doing speed deadlifts. So if I was going to use it, if I was going to do an exercise like that, it would be a extreme range of motion, I would be looking use a correct range of motion. So for instance, I wouldn't lock the knees. And I would only lower the person's torso so that they could keep the curve in the lower back, which might require a rep or two to see where that is. But once you see where that is, that's what I would limit them to. So for instance, the chest press machine I have in the studio, so nitro and
Adam 3:05
Nautilus, nitro
Bill DeSimone 3:05
Nautilus Nitro, the seat doesn't adjust enough for my preference. So the bed hurt the person's elbows come too far back. So first is to get the first rep off the ground, the person's elbows have to come way by way behind the plane of their back. So what So what I'll do is like, you know, I'll help the person out of the first repetition help out of the bottom, and then I'll have you the my hand or the clipboard where I want their elbow to stop. So as soon as I touch my hand on my elbow, they begin the other way. So that's another thing we tend to do is we tend to think of everything in terms of the big superficial muscles, right?
Because those are the ones that rarely get hurt, right
It's those are the ones that don't get hurt. It's it's the joint set. That was one thing of all the stuff I read whether it was CSCS, or Darden stuff or Jones's stuff. There was always a little murkiness between what was the joint and what was the muscle, and then that stuff was always written from the point of view of the muscle, right? It
Adam 3:59
was a joint capsule. For those that don't know what a joint capsule is a shoulder capsule,
Bill DeSimone 4:04
it's part of the structure of what holds your shoulder together. If the old Nautilus machines, you know, 1980 vintage, that bragged about getting such an extreme range of motion. Some of them it really took your shoulder to the limit of where it could go to start the exercise. And we were encouraged to go that far. But the real problem is unnecessarily adding to life's wear and tear on your joints. So it's not just what we do in the gym that accounts for somebody who plays tennis or somebody has a desk job or a manual labor job and it constantly say, you know, a plumber or some other manual labor guy has to go over his head with his arms a lot that wear and tear on his shoulder counts. And just because they walk into your gym, and yes, my health history of any orthopedic problems, I say no. Yes, I'm on the verge of an orthopedic problem that I don't know about. And I've worn this joint out because of work. But no, I have no problems at the moment. You know, my thing is, my the exercise I'm prescribing isn't going to make that worse.
Adam 5:08
Well, you don't want it to make it worse. And well, and that's why you're limiting range of motion. That's why you're matching the strength curve of the muscle with resistance curve of the tool you're using, whether you're free weight or a machine where the cam
Bill DeSimone 5:21
right there was supposed to be doing this for the benefits of exercise. I truly do not understand crippling yourself over the magic benefit of exercise. You know, in 2014, there was a lot of negative publicity about CrossFit with some of the really catastrophic injuries coming about. There's no magic benefits just because you risk your life. Now, you either benefit from exercise or you don't, but you don't get extra magic benefit. Because you push something to the brink of, you know, cracking your spine or tearing your shoulder apart.
Adam 5:53
Well, they talk about them being functional or natural movements that they they do encourage his full range of motion, because that's what you do in life. Right. So doing where,
Bill DeSimone 6:03
where it's interesting is 20 25 years ago, there was a movement in physical therapy, and it would have back schools, it was sort of like an occupational oriented thing where they would teach you how to lift. And at the time, I thought that was so frivolous, I just thought get stronger. But lifting it right in the first place is really the first step to not getting injured. But But for instance, practicing bed movements doesn't make you invulnerable to the bed movements. You're just wearing out your free passes. Right. Now sport is a different animal, right? Again, I don't think anyone's doing this. But there's enough wear and tear just in your sport. Whether it's football, martial arts, running, why add more wear and tear from your workout that's there to support the sport. You know, the original Nautilus marketing pitch was look how efficient look how efficient we made weight training, you can spend more time practicing. You don't have to spend four hours a day in the gym, you could spend a half hour twice a week, three times a week in a gym and get back practicing
Adam 7:03
or why why is it so hard to get across that?
Bill DeSimone 7:05
Because first of all, you deal with 20 year olds, right? They can tolerate almost.
Adam 7:09
So what are they saying about 20 year olds,
Bill DeSimone 7:11
I was 60. But the other thing, for instance, let's say go to college level through those 20. This is not my experience, I'm repeating this. But if you have a weight room that's empty, and you're the strength and conditioning coach, because because you're intensely working people out briefly every day. Most of the time they're idle, they're off doing their own thing. Or every day the administrators and the coaches see people running hoops and and doing agility drills running with parachutes on and every day there's activity going, what looks better. What is more job security for that strength and conditioning coach,
Adam 7:48
wait a second. What is Jim the strength training coach doing? He's working one day a week with the team? And what are you doing the rest of the week?
Bill DeSimone 7:56
And what's the team doing? What's a team? So but again, also, don't forget again, if you're talking about 20 something year old athletes they're gonna tolerate. I mean, who knows what that's gonna bring on later. A couple of years ago, ESPN had a story on a guy, he had gotten injured doing a barbell step up. So barbell step up, you put a barbell on your back, you step onto a bench, bring the other foot up, step back off the bench four repetitions, classic sports conditioning exercise. In this guy's case, either he stepped back and twisted his ankle and fell with the bar on his back. Or when he went to turn to put the bar back in the rack, when he turned, it spun on him. And he damaged his back that way. Either way, he put his ability to walk at risk. So the ESPN story was, Oh, look how great this is, he's back to playing. Yes, but he put his ability to walk at risk. To do an exercise that is really not significantly, it's more dangerous than other ways of working legs not better.
Adam 8:58
Like they don't have evidence, the coaches here that the physical trainers, they don't have evidence that doing step ups is any more effective, not at all in the performance of their sport, or even in their just pure strength gains than let's say, doing a safe version of a leg press or even squats for that matter.
Bill DeSimone 9:16
And even if you wanted to go for more of endurance thing, right running stadium steps was a classic exercise, right? But stadium steps what three or four inches, they made them very flat. Even that's safer because there's no bar in your back. Right? So on the barbell step up, which I think is still currently in the NSCA textbooks, right, the bar is on your back. If the bench is too high, you have to bend over in order to get your center of gravity over the bench, otherwise you can't get off the floor. So now you're bent over with one foot in front of us right so now you don't even have two feet under you like in a barbell squat to be more stable. You have your feet in line with the weight extending sideways and now you do your toe Any repetitions, whatever, and you're on top of the bench and your legs are burning and you're breathing heavy. And now you gotta get off. How do you get off that bench? You're gonna break the lock in your knee and the floor is going to come up and nobody steps forward, they will step backward. We can't see. I do know that that was a classic one and as recently as a 2014. In fact, one other athlete actually did lose his ability to walk getting injured in that exercise.
Adam 10:30
Well, that was part two of Bill DeSimone's interview on The InForm fitness podcast rewind, coming up. In part three, we'll be talking about that age old question, which is better machines or free weights.
Arlene 10:42
This has been the Inform fitness podcast with Adam Zickerman for over 20 years infor fitness has been providing clients of all ages with customized personal training, designed to build strength fast, and now Adam and his staff would be delighted to train you virtually. Just visit informfitness.com for testimonials, blogs and videos on the three pillars exercise nutrition and recovery.