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This Dental Specific Podcast is dedicated to the Dental "Entrepreneur" Michael Dinsio, Founder of Next Level Consultants, delivers #TRUTH when starting up a dental practice. From the very first step to getting the keys of a dental practice, Michael shares his raw & unscripted playbook with you. Not only does this podcast provide you with "What To Do" but more importantly "What Not To Do". With over over 15 years of experience & over 150 past clients, Michael delivers an educational and informative program in a real and genuine way. Start w/ Episode 01 - as we go through a STEP by STEP process.
Startup Unscripted.
The questions you have with
the truth you need to hear.
Help doctors get into
practice the way they want
to get into practice.
Hashtag truth.
That's why we put it out there.
What we want to do is we
want to bring truth to the startup game.
And now your host, Michael D'Anzio.
All right, all right, guys.
Welcome back to another
episode of Dental Startup Unscripted.
My name is Michael D'Incio,
founder of Next Level Consultants.
And this week,
we are doing Kids Teeth Week,
sponsored by Super Mouth.
I'm super excited.
We are literally, if you're YouTube in it,
behind us, we're in Toronto.
uh toronto canada and we're
at the aapd and um I'm
speaking here later today
three o'clock ish that will
not be broadcasted live but
we decided to do a kids
week uh with the startup
unscripted program and
again I'm super excited
because this program uh was
sponsored by a super mouth
which uh selfish plug I we
love this stuff my kids love it
They actually brush their teeth.
You have to go on our
Instagram page and
literally look at my kids.
I'm going to post a picture
later because it's one of
those things where they're
sponsoring what's going on here.
Legit, my kids love it.
I'm going to actually make my guest,
who I'm going to introduce
here in a second, try this stuff.
This week is sponsored by Supermouth.
I'm totally going to do commercial.
And I'm kind of making my
fun of myself a little bit
because I normally don't do commercials.
So for a few guys that follow the program,
I'm doing a commercial right now.
So here we go.
Hey, Dennis and hygienists,
I'm talking to you.
we're looking if you are
looking to elevate your
practice with a
comprehensive oral care
solution for all ages and
stages discover this sweet
deal that you see on the
the the table for you
youtubers discover super mouth
It's a revolutionary line of
oral care products tailored
to meet specific needs of
each family member.
Kids will love the
superhero-themed universe.
My kids do.
They actually really
freaking love all of the superheroes.
And adults will appreciate
the innovative designs,
which you're going to see
on the table here,
and scientifically-approven ingredients.
So the great thing about
this system is that you
guys can sell this in your
office and create what I
call a membership or a
system where you guys can
create a revenue.
What am I trying to go for here?
A reoccurring revenue, a business,
a membership within your office.
They actually set you up
with this display in the
office and the kids walk by
it and they love it.
And so Supermouth, again,
wearing the t-shirt today.
If you're watching,
great folks passionate about kids' health,
oral health.
So thank you guys for sponsoring.
So without further ado,
let's get into the program.
And I'm excited to introduce
my friend here, Dr. Kasey Hall,
soon to be a pediatric board certified.
He just took his board's
We don't know.
We don't know if he's got his boards,
but I have a pretty good
feeling this guy nailed it.
So soon to be board certified, Dennis.
Welcome to the show, my friend.
Thanks, Mike.
Super excited to be here
with you and really excited
to find out if I pass boards.
I'm putting money on it.
I'm putting money on it.
So Dr. Kasey Hall is
actually one of our clients
over on the Next Level side.
We're working through a startup with him.
And I'm super excited
because he's going to be
coming in from Rhode Island,
moving to Portland, Oregon.
Super cool market.
I guess super is kind of the
buzzword today.
Super, super.
Maybe count how many times we say super.
Yeah.
um but uh yeah no big big
picture man I I wanted just
to have a conversation
because you're starting the
program and I do and we how
long ago did we meet we met
like it's like last summer
think we met last summer and
then we kind of talked a
little bit and then we came
back to it yeah a few
months ago I think okay so
where do we meet you know
just over the phone oh okay
cool not at the aapd last
year no no are you a big
aapd guy this is my first
one yeah I love coming to
this show because you go
downstairs and you really
haven't spent much time
you guys are just cool.
And I think that's why I like, I mean,
I mean, it's a different feeling like, um,
fun.
You guys are, you know, nurtures by nature,
all dentists are,
but it's extra fun with kids.
Right.
I just, it's a more lively group and, um,
it's really a pleasure to,
to coach pediatric dentists.
It's about a third of our,
our revenue business.
Yeah.
We work with a lot of peds.
So, um, it's a, it's awesome to be here,
but, um,
what are you looking to get out of the,
the AAPD this year?
Yeah.
So, I mean, a little networking.
I'm doing my research
presentation for my
research stage during my residency.
And yeah,
I was excited to come on this
show and get to meet you in person.
We hadn't met in person before.
We just met.
Yeah, that's right.
A minute ago.
Yeah.
It's kind of weird.
But when you, you were,
you're a podcast listener, right?
Right.
Yeah.
Is that how you found me?
So that's how I first found you.
And then I was speaking with,
I had originally talked with a different
practice consultant I was
like referred to but it was
she was ortho I'm joking
she's cool she was ortho
yeah oh jill jill exactly
yeah and then jill pointed
me toward you yeah me and
jill are buddies um she's
the queen of ortho I've had
her on the program um jill
allen and associates I'll
plug her all day long she's
amazing any orthos
listening check out jill allen
And then Jill knows that we know pedo.
We know insurance.
We know systems.
It's a different game.
But there definitely is a
thing with pedo ortho.
That's a thing.
And her and I kind of
partner on stuff like that.
But so did you think that
you were going to get on
the podcast this quick?
No, I had no idea.
And have you ever done
anything like this before?
Um, I've been,
so the office I used to work at,
they had a podcast and I
did do a handful of episodes for that.
But I mean, we had like.
Fifty people that listened.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well,
I'm pretty sure only fifty people
listen to this program, but, um.
it's fine.
I'm talking to you.
Fifty.
Um, my,
the idea today is just to get
connected to the dentist.
I'm interviewing you and a few others.
Um, I already interviewed Dr. Cammie Haas,
the owner of super mouth
who kicked off this week.
He's just a stud.
Um, he knows so much.
I respect him a lot,
but the other dentist
following him is just
really just get tapped into
where your guys's heads at.
So, um,
I want to ask you, my friend, like, well,
first tell me a little bit more about you,
like married kids.
I already kind of spilled
the beans on born and raised.
Well, I didn't say that,
but give me a little bit about you.
Okay.
So I'm born and raised Portland, Oregon,
and I went to dental school at OHSU,
Oregon Health Science University.
Fantastic school.
My wife also born and raised in Portland,
Oregon.
She grew up on like the east
side out in Gresham area.
OK.
And we have four kids.
We thought, yeah,
we had our first son during dental school,
like first year dental school.
And then we just, I guess, kept going.
We thought we were done it, too.
And then we got surprise
twins right when I was
applying for residency.
Oh, my God.
We got identical twin girls.
So, yeah.
four kids that keeps us
pretty busy did you busy
yeah I've got two it's
crazy what's the age spread
so ten eight and then the
twin three-year-olds oh my
gosh yeah girls boys uh
twins boy and then three
girls so oh but the twins
the twins are oh boy yeah
two girls identical girls
yeah oh my god yeah crazy
yeah dude I'm I'm like
happy for you because I
have a boy and a girl
You got, like, girls.
And girls are amazing.
I get to be a girl dad.
It's cool.
Girl dads are the best.
And boys are awesome, too.
Love my son, too.
They're all awesome.
We were so lucky.
We thought we were done at two.
And logistically,
that would have been really nice.
When you go from two kids to four kids,
everything changes logistically.
But it's super fun.
Orlando.
Orlando.
last year at the APD.
You go to Disney World,
back to Disney World here for a second.
They make packages for a family of four.
They don't really make packages for six.
You're just kind of screwed.
They should.
We pay a ton of money to do fun stuff.
Yeah.
It's like, let's get on an airplane.
You can take a whole row.
Wow.
Good.
Good for you.
That's awesome, man.
So look,
like you took a minute to really
decide if you wanted ownership.
And that's the,
that's the theme of this episode.
Like, let's,
let's talk about like all the things,
especially as a pediatric
dentist or anybody, even specialty,
like the journey.
Let's talk about the journey because like,
did you always want to own her own?
You always wanted to own?
Yeah, I think I did.
So I felt like when I got into dentistry,
it was like,
I'll just go to dental school.
I'll be a dentist.
Done.
Easy.
I'll know like roughly how
much money I'm going to make.
I just fixed tea.
I'm a tooth janitor.
And then I found out when I
was like getting ready to graduate,
like how many options there
are as a dentist.
Yeah.
And I think there can be
like so many options.
It's almost like paralyzing.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
At least for anxious people like me.
But yeah,
I kind of have like a long
journey of figuring out how
I wanted to get into ownership, I guess.
Yeah.
Like pulling the trigger on
it and everything.
Well, let's dig into that.
Like why?
What what clicked?
Yeah.
Why all of a sudden?
How long have you been associating?
So I worked for five years
in pediatric offices right
out of dental school.
As a GP.
As a GP, just doing peds.
And then I went back into residency.
So it's been seven years.
So you fell in love with the
kid dentistry thing, went back to school,
got your certification soon.
And so five years.
When did you know you wanted to own?
Was it before you got into pedo?
It was...
there's really a couple
points where I felt like
okay I'm ready to do this
and then I hadn't done
residency yet and I kept
falling back on that like
can I do this if I haven't
officially committed like
I'm not I'm not like board
certified I haven't done
residency yet and so I
think that stalled me for a
little while yeah and then
um so I could give you just
like a quick overview of
what I did do it um that's
helpful for anybody but I
think it will be
Yeah.
So I graduated in twenty
seventeen and then I went I
took a job in Peds.
I was interested in working with kids,
but my wife and I with two kids already,
like we didn't want to go
back to school for more years.
We wanted to make money, you know,
had made money ever.
You didn't want to just keep going into.
Yeah, I was tired of it.
Right.
She was tired of it.
So I took the job that paid
the most was an office.
uh that was just all kids
and I loved it like I I had
talked to one of my mentors
before I started um kind of
looking at different job
options and he was like
well if you want to work
with kids you don't know
what you want to do yet you
should go take a job
working with kids and see
if it sticks or if you want
to go back that's what he
did and he decided he liked adults yeah
wait he decided he didn't
like kids yeah exactly he
didn't like kids so he went
back to be a gp but there
stays a gp but turns out I
don't want to do that yeah
no for me it was like I
started working with kids
and I was like why why
would anybody go back to
working adults but I love
it I love working with kids
so I did that for a couple
years and then I went into like
possible partnership at a
pediatric office at the
next place that I went to.
And why didn't that work out?
I'm just going to interrupt you because
the journey that you all go
through I feel like is a
very common one and I think
partnership is very much on
everybody's mind when they
think ownership and and I
don't get me wrong I see a
lot of benefits in
ownership or partnership
I'm gonna partnership
myself um it's challenging
I was actually just talking
to someone about that um
why didn't that work out partnership
Yeah.
So the guys that I was going
to partner with, awesome guys.
I love them.
And I think that we had a
great time working together.
I think that as I got closer
to kind of like figuring stuff out,
I came to realize like,
you're trying to find
something that is
beneficial for each of you, right?
But.
Like you and the partner.
Yeah,
like something that's beneficial for
each of you.
But when they started
something and they built it
up and now they're inviting you into it.
Yes.
That's hard.
It's hard.
It's hard to like bring
somebody in and commit to
that and give up something
that you built.
Totally.
And I think I started seeing
that and realizing like,
I'm probably what I'm
looking for is I'm better
off on the other end of that.
So that's what I love about
this business is the
entrepreneurial spirit.
I'm on a lot of drugs right now.
My congestion is just off
the hook right now.
Yeah,
sniffling in a high-def mic is super
cool.
But I just think that it's super cool.
Look, I went to business school.
I got an MBA.
Most people that MBAs don't
start their own businesses.
You guys have zero business training,
which is what I'm speaking
about at three o'clock
about how to actually be a
good business owner.
Right.
Track things and be a CEO of
your business and be a good leader.
So it's just fascinating to
me that you guys with zero training,
you know how to grind on teeth.
You're scientists.
You're super smart.
Right.
no business training,
no leadership training, either,
either wanted or you don't.
And so many pediatric or
dentists just in general go
into business for themselves.
It's wild to me.
Cause we think we can do everything.
Well, that's, that's awesome.
That's awesome.
I mean, you guys can do it.
The default rates are crazy low.
Although I will say, you know, look,
I'm going off on a rampage a
little bit here,
but everybody talks about
that default rate.
I'm not going to scare the
crap out of you.
I promise.
You've hired me.
I got you.
We're going to crush it.
I'm kind of in it now, right?
No, not really.
Once we sign that lease, you're in it.
You can pull out,
but there's a difference
between defaulting,
because everybody loves to
talk about how you guys don't default.
But there's a difference
between not defaulting and
actually doing well.
Right.
Yeah.
I'm paying my bills, but I'm broke.
Right.
So like, like, yeah.
So we want you guys to be successful.
I think the ownership
percentage is really high
for you guys to get an ownership.
I think the success rate is
actually kind of low.
Yeah.
Anyways, not to scare you.
We're going to,
we're going to make sure you're, you're,
you're hitting all points
right out of the gate.
But, um, okay.
So partnership back to partnership.
So it didn't work out.
It is their baby.
You had your vision.
You guys inspire me all the
time by having your vision
and having that entrepreneur spirit.
So you just knew that wasn't good for you.
Back to the partnership.
Yeah.
I just kind of got to the
point where it was like,
I've spent so much time
wanting to do this that I,
The only way I feel like I'm
going to be fulfilled is if
I just jump in and go for it.
And I've worked with so many
guys and like talked to so
many people and thought like,
I know I can do it.
So I just had to,
you just had to come to the
point where you commit to
it and realize like,
what do I really want to
get out of this career?
And for me,
a big part of it was I want to
try and do my thing.
I want to see if I can make it work.
I want to ask a little bit
more about that.
And totally be honest on this show.
It's unscripted for a reason.
It's unscripted.
When you said you wanted to
go out on your own,
was it more about money?
Is it more about autonomy?
I hear all kinds of things.
And there's no wrong answer here.
It could be money.
Look, I'm working right now.
What are we doing?
Trying to make some money.
That's how this works.
I happen to love what I do.
So it's fun.
but I wouldn't do it if it
was all for free.
And I was just kind of
hanging out like a hobo and doing it.
Right.
So, so what, what,
what's attractive about
ownership for you?
What, what you didn't mean?
Yeah.
I think for me, it's,
Having like trying to come
up with a vision of what
you want to do and then
seeing if you can accomplish it.
Yeah.
So I think like initially I
definitely was interested
in how much money you can make.
Yeah.
And I think that like going into peds,
peds associates get paid pretty well.
Yeah.
And so a lot of the practice
owners I've talked to have
talked about how.
Ownership, you might not make more money.
So if you want to go into it,
you got to go into it
because it's something that
you really want to do.
And I think the creating
part of it is what is interesting to me.
Creating your brand,
having your own patients,
having your own team,
supporting the community.
It's your baby.
Yeah.
And I want to see like,
what can I accomplish with that?
And can I do it?
And I, yeah, I just, I feel like I,
I love my patients and I
really actually care a lot
about the kids that I treat.
And I think,
I think like if I own my own
thing and I'm building something up,
I can feel a hundred
percent committed to that.
And I'm not thinking about
an exit strategy or I'm not
thinking about what if I
did this differently or
like I'm going down the
path somebody else wants to go down,
but I'm
Is it what I really want to do?
Or I want to try things that
they maybe don't want to try.
I think that's kind of where I came to.
Yeah.
I,
what do you think the most scary part of
this is?
Like you did, you,
you slow rolled this and I
respect you for it.
Cause it has to be the right time,
the right place, the perfect, um,
kind of a formulation of like the perf,
the stars aligned.
Right.
I,
I don't like that when doctors just jump
into something, um,
I like that they come to me
and my family's settled.
This is where we want to be.
I'm ready to do this.
I've got some money in the bank.
I love when there was a plan.
And you guys are naturally planners.
Sometimes people just call me like,
I'm not even graduated yet.
Let's just do this.
And it's just like, whoa, dude.
If my wife were listening to this,
she'd be like, no, he's not.
Yeah, but there's a master plan.
Maybe you're not like a
really good planner.
Every detail, every box check.
Right, right.
there was a grand plan here
right so like what's the
most scary thing about
jumping into a startup or getting into
What are you most worried about?
Yeah, I don't know.
You hear you just hear a lot
of things about how expensive it is.
That's scary.
But I think that it feels overwhelming,
kind of like what you talked about.
You know,
we're trained on doing the
dentistry and like peds.
I'm trained on behavioral
health and dealing with kids.
Like that stuff I know and
I'm confident in.
But when you start to think,
I guess like for me,
when I started thinking
about what it entails to
get into a practice,
you start thinking about
like all the other crap you
have to do and like people you have to,
realtor, getting the lease,
getting all your products,
your protocols.
Like it just feels, to me,
that feels overwhelming.
And I think that's kind of
where I got hung up for a while.
Setting up shop.
Yeah.
Systems.
Things.
Yeah.
Well, here's the news flash.
You'll never have every
every box checked in that
department ever.
Like our clients,
they could be in business
for twenty years and
they're still clipping that
or checking that box.
It's the thing about ownership,
even even my company.
we're like fixing things every single day.
Like right when you think
you got it mastered, it's like, Nope,
screwed that one up.
Got to fix it.
Or team huddle.
Like what worked last week?
What didn't it?
It's always improving,
always improving and,
and having like a passion for, uh,
always improving.
Whether it's your patient's care,
whether it's system efficiency,
whether it's profitability,
you're always trying to improve.
How in the hell are you
supposed to do that before
you set up shop?
You can't.
You can't.
But you will be set up.
you will take a call.
You will have a form that
helps you figure out the
insurance verification.
Like you're going to have the foundation.
You're going to be able to set up.
It's a very scary thing.
So it really wasn't, Oh, you,
you said construction costs
are just expensive.
It sure is.
So let's dig into that.
Is it the loan?
Is it the cashflow?
Like when you say that,
what's that mean to you?
Like it's expensive.
Of course it's expensive.
You're starting a business.
Yeah, I think it's, I don't know,
maybe for me,
it's being worried that I'm going to,
you know, like way overspend, right?
Like,
am I going to be able to reign things
in or am I going to get
carried away with like,
I want to do all these
amazing things and you, you know,
like there's so many things
that you can use and do for
your practice.
And then the amount just skyrockets.
It's like, can I reign that in?
Can I do it in a smart way?
Um, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, this whole,
this whole program is about
like making sure that it
doesn't get crazy.
The, the, the, you know,
timestamp folks is where we at May, uh,
and construction costs are
crazy right now.
Crazy.
Okay.
So maybe you'd pay seventy five grand.
I'm just throwing out a
number more than maybe you
would have paid.
I don't know, eight years, seven,
eight years ago.
Sure.
In the lifetime of your practice ownership,
seventy five, fifty grand is nothing.
So absolutely.
In certain departments,
timing's not the best.
Right.
But if you wait for the timing to be best,
we might be waiting for a decade.
It might never get better.
It might get a lot worse.
So to me,
like the variable cost of the product.
whole program marketing
equipment you know hiring
team members uh it all the
things that's kind of like
a the same construction's
the x factor and so but I
can see how that could
could um could could worry
you as far as like the cost
of things like I always
wonder if I'm starting a
business am I worried about
my uh my cash flow at home
are you are you worried about that
Yeah, I'm Yeah, yeah.
You're planning on working?
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah,
I'm gonna be working and probably
working after it starts to Yeah,
juggling to two is going to be difficult.
I think I get a lot of
questions about how that works.
And can can you pull that off?
And of course you can.
But
Cash in the bank helps that.
Spouses that work help that.
Although your wife's probably, I mean,
is she staying at home?
Is she working with more kids?
Yeah, she's at home.
I was going to say,
that's like a double job.
She's working all the time, yes.
Nobody pays her for that.
Yeah, as we speak, she's working.
I know.
Well, um, you know,
it takes a lot of courage
to get into ownership.
Um, real quick,
before we get final thoughts on like, um,
tips, uh,
things that you would want to tell people,
I want to make sure that
you want to try this stuff, this,
this super mouth.
I'm making sure all of that.
Let's start with the mouthwash.
I want to, I want to everybody zoom in on
dr hall here and I want I
want to I want you to get
his reaction to this stuff
called what is that super
chocolate yeah I got super
chocolate here all right
try it out let me know if
you think the kids would
like that yeah normally I
think dental products that
are flavored chocolate's
weird to me it's weird I'm
gonna try it out okay super
chocolate it's my favorite
what do you think that's
pretty good do you think
it's pretty good do you
think kids would like that
yeah I mean I yeah I would
give that to my kids and
they'd probably like they
would freak out so they
have a non-fluoride they
have a fluoride you can
actually eat this stuff uh
probiotic prebiotics I
didn't even know there's
prebiotics in this dr haas
didn't tell me that uh this week
All right.
Now,
so the whole theme is like this
chocolate theme, like like ice cream.
So hence the the I'm going
to try the ice cream.
All right.
So here's the here's the
super chocolate toothpaste.
All right.
Try it.
It's not bad.
It's not toothpaste.
It's not mouthwash.
No, it's candy.
It is candy.
There's all this gear set up
for the kiddos.
I think it's great.
I was showing you before we
even started the program,
this little truck.
It's got a tray, your toothbrush, mouth,
all the things.
And then you hit these little buttons.
They even have songs, two-minute songs.
It works.
Impression.
For two minutes.
My kids actually brush for two minutes.
It's great.
I would highly suggest you
guys check it out.
Before we close the program now, Doc.
Oh, boy.
The truck's getting crazy.
Brush those teeth.
Just brush.
Final comments, man.
If you were talking to a
bunch of dentists out in
the audience and you were
going to tell them
Hey, I think ownership makes sense.
Of course,
you're not all the way through it.
But now that you've made the decision,
how do you feel?
And would you encourage them to do it?
Yeah.
I think some of the best
advice I was given was just
bet on yourself.
And I think when I finally
started to go into it with
some confidence,
I felt really good about it.
And yeah.
I think that's what you got
to do you just got to bet
on yourself and go for it I
love that because you know
every single day we're
thinking if you're thinking
about money or making money
or whatever investments and
stuff um I I always laugh
like dentists are like hey
I wanna I'm a I'm a
pediatric dentist I make
I do really well.
I'm thinking about doing a
condo and I'm going to do
this like coffee shop.
They start becoming like
entrepreneurs outside of dentistry.
We don't know anything about it.
I'm like, bro, like you make so much money,
like do another dental office,
like make money with what you're doing.
And so to that point,
bet on yourself because you
won't see returns in any
other investment or
anything than betting on yourself.
So I think that's solid, dude.
Well, with that being said,
we're going to close this thing down.
At the end of this episode,
it's going to be a Supermouth commercial.
And check them out, guys.
Click below on all the links
and stuff to get contacted to these guys.
Doc, if you feel comfortable,
don't feel like you're on the spot,
but we might have Dr.
Hall's contact information.
I always feel like community matters.
You guys should totally vibe
off of each other and ask
each other's questions.
At Next Level, we actually have a forum.
But even outside that,
if you're not in the Next Level family,
reach out to Dr. and you guys can kind of,
I don't know,
sympathize with each other
on construction costs later.
Perfect.
Yeah.
It's great to see you, man.
And it's a pleasure meeting
you officially.
And welcome to the Next Level family.
And this has been super fun.
Thank you.
Thanks, Mike.
Appreciate it.
All right.
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