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The Independence Podcast helps everyday people discover that true freedom isn’t found in self-reliance but in total dependence on Jesus Christ. Each episode blends honest conversation, biblical truth, and practical application to help listeners move beyond emotional devotion toward consistent, daily surrender. Whether you’re new in your faith or longing to grow deeper, you’ll find encouragement to trust God fully, live from His grace, and follow Christ with courage in a world that celebrates independence but neglects dependence on the One who truly sets us free.
Bryan Dunham (00:00)
Welcome my friends to the independence podcast. This is episode 20 and on this podcast we discuss how true freedom actually comes from Dependence so we're learning how to live in Dependence Daily on God. I am your host Brian Dunham and this week I'm helping to lead a men's retreat through my church and I have a couple of opportunities to speak so I'm a little short on time this week to ⁓
research, study, record, produce, and distribute a podcast. So I'm running a similar play to what I ran last time that I was speaking at a retreat over a weekend, and that is to make the topic of the episode one in which I've already done the research. And it just so happens that that topic is questions God asks. God asks more than 600 questions of human beings in scripture.
and it just so happens that I have done a lot of research on this particular topic. You may be asking, well, that's an interesting topic. Why have you spent so much time doing that? Well, if you're not aware, in December I released my first book and it is entitled Questions God Asks. It goes through 10 questions that God asks humans in scripture, but because of that, there's over 600 of those that...
⁓ are left on the cutting room floor, so to speak. Now, I didn't research all 600, but I definitely did more than 10 looking for which ones I really wanted to include as chapters in the book. So I have a plethora of questions with research done that makes it pretty easy to jump in and leave a podcast episode on. And on top of that, they're really cool and it's super valuable. It's been very faith building for me to even do the research for the book. So I'm hopeful.
that some of that research can be put to good use here on weeks that I shorter on time. this week we're covering the 17th and 18th questions that God asks in scripture. And these questions may be some of the most uncomfortable, not only for the person receiving the question, the human that receives the question, but for you and I to confront them as well. And they take place at the burning bush with Moses.
And in that moment, God reveals his name to Moses. He reveals his power through miracles and he promises his presence to Moses. And Moses responds with objections. So I've been in sales a good portion of my career and we always talk about objections and objection handling, but there's a particular topic we discuss a lot, which is the objection behind the objection.
because there are reasons that we as humans say that we are not ready to make a decision that sound logical, but they typically aren't the real reason why we're not taking action
So human beings are not just decision makers, but even more so we're identity protectors. So when a salesperson asks us to buy something, we rarely say the truth, which is I'm afraid to spend money. I've been a spin thrift before. I don't want to make another mistake. Or I don't trust myself to make good decisions. Or I don't.
like change, I'd rather stay with the status quo or this whole situation is making me uncomfortable and I don't want to get taken for a ride. Like we don't articulate things like that. We say things like, it's not in the budget right now. I think I need to think about it. I need to talk to my spouse. The timing isn't right. These all sound rational because we want to see ourselves as rational. So psychologists would call this cognitive dissonance.
reduction, meaning we want to maintain a coherent self story, like the story we're telling ourselves about ourselves, which just, by the way, proves how crazy we are, not crazy, but how inwardly focused we are. When we talk about the story, we tell ourselves about ourselves and everybody nods along like, yep, I know what you're talking about.
Like we don't wanna feel inconsistent internally. We also don't wanna feel impulsive when we're making purchase decisions. So we generate explanations that preserve our story, that preserve our dignity, if you wanna think about it that way, though that might be a heavy word. So Moses in this interaction with God at the burning bush offers up five objections.
But the fifth one is different than the others. And the fifth one is, this is Exodus 4.13, my Lord, please send someone else. That is not about confusion. It's not about insecurity. It's resistance. And if we're honest, many of us have prayed the same prayer or had the same thought. Maybe not out loud, but in the quiet of our hearts, Lord.
Please send someone else. So for background, what is the story of Moses? So Moses ⁓ is born amongst the Hebrew people when they are living in Egypt. And so many, many years prior, the Hebrew people transitioned to Egypt during a great famine and they stayed there in the land of Goshen.
and they began to multiply and multiply and they got bigger and bigger to the point of where Pharaoh said, you know what, we've got to do something. These people are going to overrun us and they're going to take us over. They're going to take control. So their decision was to murder every male child that was born to the Hebrew people. So when the Egyptian midwives would be birthing these children, if they were male, they were to murder them. And so Moses was
born during this time period. And when he was born, his mother took Moses after, you know, weaning him for a period of time and allowing him to grow a little bit, put him in a basket as a baby and kind of pitched it with tar. You know the story, pushed it out into the Nile River when Pharaoh's daughter was bathing and she heard the cries of the baby in the basket. She had the basket brought to her and
and she essentially adopts Moses and brings Moses, a Hebrew, into Pharaoh's household and raises Moses as an Egyptian. But we find out a little later in the story when Moses is 40 years old, he goes out to see his people. And at this point, the Hebrews are enslaved and he sees the plight of his people and he has a lot of internal conflict. I imagine growing up, Moses had the question internally a lot.
Well, who am I? Am I an Egyptian? I'm raised as an Egyptian. I live in Pharaoh's household. I'm identified as a son of Pharaoh's daughter, a grandson of Pharaoh in the royal family. He had a lot of power. And if he wanted anything, he could have just had it. But at the same time, he knows that he is a Hebrew by birth. And so when he sees his people enslaved, I imagine he gets caught between this identity.
He winds up killing an Egyptian. ⁓ Pharaoh finds out he runs for his life into the wilderness. He meets a girl at a well. He marries her and begins to work for her father. ⁓ And he works as a shepherd. So at 40 years old, a guy who kind of has everything in life makes a bad mistake, loses it all, and goes running and finds a home and a job as a shepherd. And...
does that shepherding job for 40 years, because we're told he's 80 when he encounters this burning bush. Do you think that Moses spent much time wondering about what could have been? That he looked up at those stars at night with the sheep all around him and thought, if I just wouldn't have made that rash decision in that moment, I would still be living like a king. Do you think he ever wondered about that? I know I would have.
I know I've had similar situations in my life, not that kind of fall, but rather I've had some falls and I've been brought low and I've thought many times, well, if I just wouldn't have done that thing, I would be in a different place. And so here you have ⁓ Moses at 80 years old tending sheep. Who knows what he's thinking about himself and who he is and where he's come from.
But we're told that at 80, know, Moses lives ultimately till he's 120. And so at 80 years old, he's two thirds of the way through his life. So if you want to get a kind of a modern day idea of roughly how old Moses would be in our years, because we don't have people generally that live to 120, two thirds of the way through his life would be. So the.
Modern equivalent would be this. So the current US life expectancy on average is 79 years. Women typically live longer than men, but the average is 79 years. so, two thirds of that, 79 times 0.66 is 52. So think of Moses being about 52 years old as we think about it when he encounters the burning bush. And this hit home to me because I'm 52 years old. So.
I'm going to start reading this scripture. This is from Exodus chapter three and ⁓ and we'll stop along the way. So this says, Now Moses was keeping the flock of his father-in-law Jethro, the priest of Midian, and he led his flock to the west side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of the bush. He looked and behold, the bush was burning.
yet it was not consumed. And Moses said, I'll turn aside and go see this great sight, why this bush is not burned. When God saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, Moses, Moses. And he said, here I am. Then he said, do not come near, take your sandals off your feet for the place on which you are standing is holy ground. And he said, I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob.
And Moses hid his face for he was afraid to look at God. Then the Lord said, I've surely seen the affliction of my people who are in Egypt. I've heard their cry because of their task masters. I know their sufferings and I've come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of the land to a good and broad land to a land flowing with milk and honey to the place of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites.
the parasites, the Hivites, the Jebusites, and the cellulites. Just kidding, it doesn't say cellulites, but it's funny. And now behold, the cry of the people of Israel has come to me and I have also seen the oppression with which the Egyptians oppressed them come. I will send you to Pharaoh that you may bring my people, the children of Israel out of Egypt. So here's Moses.
God tells him all this, from a burning bush no less. And he says, you're the one, you're the man Moses, I am going to send you. And Moses says, but Moses said to God, who am I that I should go to Pharaoh and bring the children of Israel out of Egypt? He says, who am I to do this? And this is a guy who ran from, man, this is a guy who ran for his life from Pharaoh.
And so God's like, hey, I need you to head back there. Now, for all intents and purposes, that Pharaoh that he ran from ⁓ is dead. But Moses is like, he's returning to the place of his, maybe he thinks of his great mistake, but certainly he's returning to the place where his life completely changed, or at least God's asking him to. And he's like, who am I to go back there?
at this point and rescue these people that I have fled from. So, you know, he's no longer an Egyptian, but he's kind of almost now no longer a Hebrew either because he's left them behind. And so there's an identity crisis here, like, and he's feeling inadequate. So we keep reading. He said, that's God, but I will be with you and this shall be the sign for you that I have sent you.
when you have brought the people out of Egypt, you shall serve God on this mountain." So God says, don't worry about who you are, because I'm going to be with you. And then Moses said to God, if I come to the people of Israel and say to them, the God of your fathers has sent me to you. And then they ask me, what is his name? What shall I say to them? So Moses's first objection is, well, who am I to go do something like that? And then God says, don't worry about it. I'll be with you.
And the next objection Moses says is, then who are you? Who are you to do this? And then God goes into telling him who he is. I am who I am. And he said, say to this people of Israel, I am a sent me to you. And then God goes through a pretty lengthy monologue here about what he is supposed to say to the children of Israel. And he goes through this
list of how it's all going to work out. And he basically says to him, ⁓ but I know this is in verse 19, you know, you're going to go do this. You're going to say this to them, the leaders of Israel, they're going to believe you. And then you're going to go to, to Pharaoh and you're going to say, let my people go for three days, but he's not going to listen to you. And then when he doesn't listen to you, ⁓ I'm going to stretch out my hand and do mighty signs and works. I, it's
It's just interesting to me that God tells Moses, how I'm gonna send you to do something, but it's not gonna work. Like, wouldn't you just go, well, can we just skip that part then? If we know it's not gonna work, can we just skip that part? Which is just another interesting thing about God. No, can't skip that part. You gotta go spit into the wind here, basically. Because there's something else that God is concerned about. We're not gonna talk about it here.
but it's so that Pharaoh will know who God is and that it ain't him. And that is what's one of the main things God talks about in other scriptures when he talks about what he's doing here with Pharaoh. So he goes all through this with Moses. And then in chapter four, verse one, it says, Moses answered, but behold, they will not believe me or listen to my voice for they will say the Lord didn't appear to you. So.
Now, Moses is in fear of rejection. First it's like, well, who am I? And then the next is, well, then who are you? And now after God tells him who he is and how it's gonna work out, he says, well, what if they don't believe me? He's fearing the rejection of the people. And this is the 17th question that God asks in the scripture in verse two of chapter four. The Lord said to him, what is that in your hand?
Again, God doesn't ask questions because he doesn't know the answer. He's asking the question so Moses can look and reflect on what is this in his hand. And what is it? Moses says, a staff. A staff is in Moses's hand and this is his shepherd staff. He's lived 40 years with this staff, being one of his only companions besides the animals. He's used this staff to steer the sheep.
He's probably used this staff to defend the sheep against predators. He's used this staff probably just to mess around with, to play baseball with rocks, who knows? But this staff has probably been one of his favorite pieces of equipment. Having been a police officer before, you become attached to your weapon, like your gun in particular. You're shooting it for qualification, you're cleaning it.
You also know that your life may depend upon its successful operation at some point. So you become attached to your weapon. is just, ⁓ you're more attached to that object than you are many other things in your life. And that's just the way it is. And so I can imagine what Moses might've felt about his staff. And so.
God tells him, take that staff and throw it on the ground and it becomes a snake. And then he says, pick it back up. And so now he's able to do miracles with this staff. And then ⁓ God goes through and says, okay, now take your hand and stick it in your cloak and then pull it out. And his hand looks, is covered with leprosy. And then he says, now put it back in your cloak and now pull it out again. And he does, and it's healed. And so God is basically saying, I'm giving you the power to perform miracles.
So if for some reason they doubt you, you can perform these miracles and they will know that it's true. And then he goes on to say, if they don't believe any of that stuff, then just take some water from the Nile and pour it on the ground. And when it does, it's going to turn into blood. he gives, tells him like, I'm going to give you three things here. And if the first two don't work, do the third one. They're going to believe you, Moses. So he's, he's being pretty patient here with Moses, you know, well, who am I to go?
And God's like, I'm gonna be with you. It's not about you. It's about me basically. And then Moses says, well then who are you? And God gives him his actual name, like who he is, I am who I am. And then he says, well then what if they don't believe me as if God sending you is not enough? Then finally Moses says in chapter four, verse 10, but Moses said to the Lord, my Lord,
I'm not eloquent. I don't talk good, either in the past or since you've spoken to me, but I am slow of speech and of tongue." And then the Lord asks him the 18th question that God asks of a human in scripture, who has made man's mouth? And then the 19th question, who makes him mute or deaf or seeing or blind? And then the 19th question,
Is it not I, the Lord? So God here, Moses goes through this and the fourth objection is, why I'm not good at speaking and you're asking me to go do all this speaking. And God says, who made your mouth? He did. And he said, I'm gonna be with you. I'll even be with your mouth and I'll tell you what to say. That's verse 12. Now therefore go.
God's starting to get to the of his rope here. He's like, all right now, therefore go. I'll be with your mouth and I'll teach you what to speak. I if you've never had professional coaching on communication, man, could there be anyone better than what God is offering Moses here? And then verse 13, but he said, Oh my Lord, please send someone else.
Notice the progression. The first four are kind of framed as inability. The fifth is not inability though. Please send someone else is about unwillingness. He's run out of arguments and now he simply refuses or wants to refuse. And there is a big, big canyon between saying I can't and I won't. And that is the turning point of this text.
The next line is sobering. Then the anger of the Lord was kindled against Moses. That's Exodus 4, 14. Not a situation I ever wanna read about myself being in.
And God's not losing his temper here. He is responding to the unbelief of Moses. Up to this point, God has been extraordinarily patient. Moses says, I'm insignificant. I don't know your name. They won't believe me. I can't speak well. And God answers every concern. I'll be with you. I'll tell you my name. I'm going to give you my power. I'm going to give you my provision.
We are told that God's strength is made perfect in weakness. Paul talks about that in the New Testament. God has no issues with your weakness, my friend. And he's got no issues with you when these insecurities crop up in you as a result of your weaknesses. Because that's when his power can shine greatest through you. But when Moses says, send someone else, the issue's no longer weakness. It's a lack of trust that's moved him to resistance.
God's already accounted for Moses's weaknesses. What he confronts now is his refusal to rely on God's presence. That's where the line between humility and unbelief becomes thin. Humility says, I'm not enough. Unbelief says, and you're not enough either. And that is when God's burns.
Here is what is astonishing. Even in anger, God provides. God says, is there not Aaron, your brother, the Levite? I know he can speak well. So God answers Moses's request, but not in the way Moses intended. Moses wants replacement. God provides reinforcements. Aaron's gonna go with you. Not instead of you.
He will go with you. So God does send someone else, but he sends someone else right along with Moses. And this reveals something critical about God. His holiness is real, his displeasure in this story is real, but so is his mercy. God will accomplish his purposes. The question is whether we are going to participate in that joyfully or reluctantly. We talked about sales and sales objections before in sales,
The real objection, the objection behind the objection, behind the objection is often emotional, not logical at all. In fact, the hidden driver is usually fear, fear of regret, fear of loss, fear of being taken advantage of, fear of change. But emotions feel vulnerable and logic feels safe. So we close that fear with reasoning and it's not usually deceit.
so much as it's self-protection. And spiritually, we do the same thing. When God calls us, we don't typically say, I'm afraid, or I like control, thank you very much, or I don't trust you fully yet. We say things like, I just need some more confirmation, or I'm not really gifted in that area, or just not the right season of life, or.
I need to pray about it. Or I'm waiting for clarity in this situation. All very spiritual sounding words and on the surface, they definitely sound very humble and connected, but underneath they may be hiding resistance, delay and obedience and delayed obedience is also known as disobedience. Now,
Here's something sobering. Because of Moses's initial refusal to go as God said, in the way in which God wanted him to, while Aaron may have been helpful in some regard, Aaron was also extraordinarily unhelpful and actually introduced long-term complications for Moses.
a weird setup that God, once Aaron comes alongside, God sets it up as, okay, Moses, you're gonna be the leader, but Aaron's gonna be the one doing all the talking. Because that's what Moses asked for. And God tells Moses, you're the leader, but he's gonna be your mouth. So what happens when they come out of Egypt, they land at Mount Sinai eventually, and Moses goes up on the mountain? What do the people do?
And who is the one that creates the golden calf that they begin to worship? Well, that's Aaron. And then in Numbers 12, it seems like this particular setup of Moses being the leader, but Aaron being the spokesperson, has created this perception within Aaron and Miriam of some level of co-authority.
Aaron and Miriam in Numbers 12 speak against Moses and they say, has the Lord only spoken through Moses? Has he not spoken through us too? Aaron now is questioning Moses' unique prophetic role that God has given him and he is sowing seeds of doubt. When we show resistance to God's biblically, he often makes concessions for what we want.
In the Bible, in those examples, they're always, those concessions that God allows, always introduce unnecessary complexity and problems. Israel asks for a king when God tells them, you're not going to be like the other nations. I will be your king. But Israel begs and begs and begs God for a king. And God allows them to have a king, King Saul.
And that introduces all kinds of problems for the nation of Israel. And when they wanted food in the desert, God was giving a manna, miraculous manna, every day, but they got tired of it. You the miracle that God had created that surely the first couple of days must have been amazing had become mundane, just ordinary. And so the quail came and that caused all kinds of problems. People choked and died.
on the quail, this highlights our personal responsibility and how we respond to God. It is significant. It can have long-term consequences in how we walk out our obedience when we delay or when we feel, when we try to push something off because we don't feel like we're in exactly the right spot. Delayed obedience often complicates our calling.
God's will is not gonna be thwarted, it never will be, but our experience of it may be much more challenged than what we actually want. So let me bring this home. Most of us are not resisting God who's talking to them through a burning bush. We're resisting a hard conversation, ⁓ a step of generosity, a ministry opportunity, a call to repentance.
a call to lead. We disguise reluctance as humility. I'm not quite ready for that. I'm not gifted, not my air of gifting. I'm not qualified. But if God has made his will clear and we persist in delay, the issue is no longer ability. The issue is surrender. The core promise of this entire encounter is found earlier.
In Exodus 312, I will be with you. God's presence is always the answer. In our presence with him, Jesus talks about abiding in John 15. If you do not abide with me, you cannot bear fruit. Your only job in that story is to abide.
John if you wanna go read the story, God is the vine dresser. He's the one that's cultivating. He's the one that's cleaning. He's the one that's pruning. Jesus is the vine and we are the branch. Our only job is to stay connected and then the fruit that is produced in our lives is a byproduct of that connection. It's all about presence. God in us, us in God. And the question that Moses asked was, God's enough? And that's the question for us.
Is Christ enough? Is his presence sufficient for the thing that you're avoiding? Because obedience is not about how competent you feel, but rather how dependent you are. So let me ask you the question that's been pressing on my own heart. Where may I be resisting God's call? Not because I can't, but because I won't. Is there something you already know
He's asked you to do. Is there a step you've delayed? A fear you've nursed? A comfort you won't release? Remember this, God's purposes will stand, but he invites you into the joy of willing obedience, the joy of willing dependence, not forced, not coerced, but surrendered.
Moses eventually goes and God uses him mightily. But this moment at the bush reminds us that reluctance reveals the heart. May we be a people who move quickly from hesitation to trust. And may we never forget the one who calls us is the one who goes with us. His presence is enough.
If you want to learn more about the questions God asks, you can go to the website, questionsgodasks.com. You can also pick up the book there or download a free chapter. If you have read the book, would you please go to Amazon and leave an honest review that helps me more than you know. And until next time, grace and peace, my friends.