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As a small business owner, you need to be a lot of things to make your business go—but you don't have to be a marketer alone. Join host Dave Charest, Director of Small Business Success at Constant Contact, and Kelsi Carter, Brand Production Coordinator, as they explore what it really takes to market your business. Even if marketing's not your thing! You'll hear from small business leaders just like you along with industry experts as they share their stories, challenges, and best advice to get real results. This is the Be a Marketer podcast! New episodes every Thursday!
Today on episode 45 of the Be A Marketer podcast, you'll hear from a founder who turned expertise and personal experience into a business and a self paying hobby. And I'm sharing why your most valuable marketing asset is you. This is to be a marketer podcast. Be a marketer. When you started your business, you probably didn't realize how many hats you'd actually have to wear.
Dave Charest:All of a sudden, you have to be an owner. You have to be a boss. You have to be the person making sure all the things go, all while making sure you're getting new customers to keep things going. And that means you also have to be a marketer. The good news, you don't have to be a marketer alone.
Dave Charest:I'm your host, Dave Charest, director of small business success at Constant Contact, and I help small business owners like you make sense of online marketing. And on this podcast, we'll explore how to find the time to be a marketer. No jargon, no hype, just real stories to inspire you and practical advice you can act on. So remember friend, you can be a marketer. In a Constant Contact, we're here to help.
Dave Charest:Well, hello, friend, and thanks for joining me for another episode of the Be A Marketer podcast. Question for you. Did you ever wonder why big businesses hire celebrities for their ads? Well, it's because, presumably, people already know and like those celebrities. And if people like them, their hope is that by association, people will like their brand too.
Dave Charest:The reality here is that, and you may have heard me say this before, but people like to do business with people they know, like, and trust. Now don't worry. I'm not going to say that you have to cough up a $1,000,000 budget to hire a celebrity, but what if instead you thought about becoming somewhat of a celebrity yourself? Now what I mean here is that the biggest advantage that you have over your competition is, well, you. And when you allow people the opportunity to get to know, like, and trust you and the people that work for you, you stand a better chance of people wanting to do business with you because they know, like, and trust you.
Dave Charest:So don't be afraid to be visible. Share stories, inject personality, and let people get to know you in your marketing efforts. That's on social, in emails, and text, and any interaction people have with your business. You stand out by being you, and you build trust at the same time. Now you'll hear more about this today from our guest.
Dave Charest:He not only uses personal storytelling, but he also has an association with the celebrity that people are fascinated with around the globe. Well, friend, today's guest is Brad Sundberg. Brad is an acclaimed sound engineer and founder of multiple businesses, including B Sun Media and in the studio with MJ. And, yes, the MJ we're talking about here is Michael Jackson. So how does one cross paths with the king of pop?
Dave Charest:Well, let's pick up the conversation there.
Brad Sundberg:I was Michael Jackson's, technical director for about 18 years. I was there for what I call the glory years from, about 1985 to 2004, and, got to be really close with Michael, worked on album projects, worked with him at the ranch extensively at Neverland building music systems, and then video shoots, personal projects, all kinds of stuff. And he he was he was an amazing guy and a very dear friend. So after he passed in 2009, we were approached by a group of some friends of ours in in Paris to come to Paris, France and do a seminar, just kinda tell some stories. And so I brought a box of tapes, and we booked a studio.
Brad Sundberg:And, I played music, and I would tell a story, and I'd start to cry, and I would, tell another story, and, it just brought back a flood of memories. And long story short, we kind of it's never been a full time career, but the the interest in MJ never stops. People are fascinated by him and how he made the records. Everything about my events is very positive. Michael was a genuinely wonderful man.
Brad Sundberg:So we started doing events in New York and all across the US and then Europe. I think we've done 270 events over the past 12 ish years, something like that. I don't know. You can look at the website. Something like 45 cities and 24 countries, something like that.
Brad Sundberg:So we do about, 12 to 14 events per year or or cities, I should say. And it's an amazing blessing of a self paying hobby. So I don't take it too seriously, but our guests are wonderful. And we just take them to a place they've never been before. Bring them to a recording studio, tell some stories, really dig deep into Michael's work, style, and songwriting, and it's an absolute joy to do it.
Dave Charest:You know, how did you even get into, like, sound engineering? Like, was this something you're always into? Like, was that path for you?
Brad Sundberg:Sure. I grew up, listening to Van Halen and Pink Floyd and ACDC, and I'd always been fascinated by sound. My mom is a very accomplished musician. I understand music. I have music in my blood.
Brad Sundberg:It just doesn't come out of my fingers. So I've always loved the tech side of it. And when I was in high school, an album called Thriller came out, and it absolutely captivated me, which I believe Thriller just turned 40. And I had to learn how between Thriller and Dark Side of the Moon and some of those really beautiful records, I was just fascinated about how they were made. So I moved to LA.
Brad Sundberg:I went to a sound engineering school, which has long since gone out of business. I got a job at the studio where Thriller was made. I always tell people, I'm not a Michael Jackson superfan. I just love the sound of his records, and, of course, the groove. I mean, and I was at at Westlake, and I wasn't there probably more than 3 months, and Michael came in and started doing a project called Captain EO.
Brad Sundberg:And that's when we first met. We just we hit it off. We didn't become best friends. We weren't running around the clubs or anything, but he kept a really tight circle, and I just stayed with him. I stayed with him through 3 albums, Bad, Dangerous, and History, and part of Blood on the Dance Floor.
Brad Sundberg:And then he introduced he brought me up to Neverland, and, that's I was one of the first people at Neverland after he bought it, and that really launched my second career, which is building music systems. And the timing was perfect. Everything about it worked out really well. I stayed with him for not not exclusively, but he introduced me to people like Elizabeth Taylor, and my name started getting passed around Hollywood. And we just did more and more crazy music systems.
Brad Sundberg:Left LA in 2008, wound up in Orlando, and I started doing my seminars in 2011. So that's a very quick nutshell of a few decades of work.
Dave Charest:Yeah. Well, so it's it's interesting, right, how to to truncate that all down like that. But I I guess, like, the question is, like, was starting a business then, like, leading you into b sun and all of that? Like, was that something you always thought you'd do, or was that a surprise?
Brad Sundberg:Not at all. I'm a terrible business owner. I don't I don't know anything about it. I I've I've fell into it backwards, which I think is a lot of how a lot of people do it. No.
Brad Sundberg:I wanted to work in recording studios my whole life. There's a whole long story about Napster and how the industry really it wasn't just Napster. There are a lot of factors, but the industry changed, and it was a good time for me to make a pivot, as they say. And so I started, I think, yeah, Michael was one of my first clients, which is not a bad first client to have. Not at all.
Brad Sundberg:And I didn't even really know what I was doing, but he and Rod Temperton, you may know that name, but you know his work. He wrote half the thriller album. Just a wonderful, wonderful man. I built couple I built 4 recording studios for Rod all around the world, and I really fell in love with the technology side of it, of being able to as crazy as it sounds, putting music, you know, putting music in trees, putting it on amusement park rides, putting it anywhere you can imagine. And that's how I started Nissan.
Brad Sundberg:I had to have a company. I met with my accountant, and he said, you have to have an LLC. So I had to get a lawyer and get a, you know, become incorporated, and that's how it started. So I've owned, I guess, Bee Sun for many, many years.
Dave Charest:So, you know, you mentioned, that idea of, you know, you didn't really know what you were doing. Right? Particularly in terms of just setting that up. And I think that's a sentiment that many small businesses, can relate to just in terms of starting the business and doing that. And so, I'm wondering, did you have any doubts about starting either of these businesses as it was kind of coming into fruition?
Brad Sundberg:It's a good question. I mean, when you're young and dumb, I mean, it's just such a good it's such a good time to do new things. Yeah. I mean, you know, when the phone you when you start something and the phone doesn't ring for a week, and you're like, you know, this is it. We're gonna be moving into the car.
Brad Sundberg:But no, it was never we never really hit really hard times. But sure, we we honestly barely knew, you know, what I shouldn't say we. I barely knew what I was doing. I have a wonderful wife who's been supportive through decades and thick and thin. And people did, you know, you have to have some sort of a community of people that that kinda believe in you.
Brad Sundberg:But, no, Michael was a great launching point, and then somebody you may have heard of by the name of Quincy Jones. Quincy became one of my biggest clients. So I I had already kind of earned a reputation in the music industry that Brad knows what he's doing. He's an honest guy. So it it wasn't and then your name just gets passed around.
Brad Sundberg:I mean, word-of-mouth is, I know we're here to talk about marketing and Constant Contact a little bit. Word-of-mouth is always the best tool. So that was, that that really kind of got us off the ground.
Dave Charest:What is it that you found to be most challenging about running a business?
Brad Sundberg:Yeah. I mean, you're juggling you're juggling balls all the time. Yeah. You know, you you've got payroll.
Brad Sundberg:You've got, I I've gotta get this person to pay so I can cover payroll, rent, and insurance, you know, on Friday. So there's always that that stress. You know, the most challenging you know, marketing, when you really have no idea what you're doing, and and we did. I mean, we we did have a nice launching point to to get started with. Marketing, I didn't know.
Brad Sundberg:You know, you you take an ad out, and there used to be something, like curiosity circulator or whatever it is, and it's kind of a target marketing thing to to neighborhoods. And then, you know, jeez. Should I take an ad out in the realty supposed to support the local football team and take out a quarter page ad? And so we tried all that stuff, and truthfully, with with pretty pretty dismal results.
Dave Charest:Yeah.
Brad Sundberg:It just takes one person saying, hey. Brad's a good guy. Forgive me if it sounds like I'm name dropping, but, you know, then I'm building Will Smith a recording studio.
Dave Charest:Right.
Brad Sundberg:Well, I'm not gonna get that through cons through, Curiosity Circulator or something along the way.
Dave Charest:Local football game.
Brad Sundberg:No. Probably not. And I didn't get slapped. So, you know, win win.
Dave Charest:So when you think about marketing then, where does that rank then on on your list of priorities?
Brad Sundberg:So let me fast forward to now.
Dave Charest:Yeah.
Brad Sundberg:Let me fast forward to doing my events. My events are you know, some people might say they're expensive. I mean, a ticket to one of my events is usually around $200. So it's not you know, we're not trying to compete with somebody going to the movies. It's a full day event.
Brad Sundberg:We take people deep, deep into, how Michael works, but we have to market it. So that's where marketing my in the studio stuff, I probably spend more time on that than I ever did marketing b sun, as as strange as that might sound. So marketing is essential now, and I know we're gonna we're gonna get to constant contact. But, you know, in the age of social media, whether you love it or hate it, it's an amazing tool, and being able to target market. We're gonna be in Dublin in exactly 4 weeks.
Brad Sundberg:Not Dublin. Belfast. Forgive me. The the Irish are gonna be mad at me. Belfast is not in Ireland.
Brad Sundberg:It's in Northern Ireland. And so we just start target marketing. And I'm just throwing, social media post after post at Belfast, and we have to throw a little bit of money at it. But compared to the old days, we used to take out newspaper ads. I mean, it's only been 12 years, and, the world has changed so much.
Brad Sundberg:Target marketing, I think, is a really powerful tool, and it's it's so mathematical. I mean, if I, put a little bit of effort into my ad, into the poster or the post or whatever I'm doing, and, you know, throw throw a $100 at it, stretch it out over about 4 days. It's almost predictable that, I'm I'm going to sell, you know, 3, 4, 5 tickets, you know, triple, or I'm many get that money back very quickly?
Dave Charest:Right. In terms of the investment.
Brad Sundberg:You have to spend money to make money.
Dave Charest:Yeah. So where are you I'm curious. So obviously, you're doing social advertising. Are you doing that on, I guess, Facebook? Have you found one performs better for you over another?
Dave Charest:Which which which sites are you using?
Brad Sundberg:I'm old. So I'm also I'm also a storyteller.
Dave Charest:Yeah.
Brad Sundberg:So Facebook is my happy place.
Dave Charest:Okay.
Brad Sundberg:So I think we've got, I don't know, whatever it is, 36,000 followers on Facebook, something like that. Mhmm. And they're and we've earned every one. Yeah. I haven't bought a single, you know, we don't do anything clickbait or whatever the nonsense is.
Brad Sundberg:So that that's our big dog, and then after that is Instagram, and then we've got some x and some threads, whatever threads is. And then TikTok. We've actually been having a lot of fun on TikTok. You just you know, I'm not gonna do a dance. I'm not gonna be stupid.
Dave Charest:Right. Right.
Brad Sundberg:But you've gotta put yourself out there and show a personality, show a little bit of sense of humor because you've got a few seconds to get somebody's attention. And, you know, not to sound too, capitalistic, but, you know, I'm I'm there to get a few dollars out of their pocket into my bank account.
Dave Charest:Yep.
Brad Sundberg:So that's that's the point.
Dave Charest:I'm curious, and I know we're going back here a little bit. Right? We're going back to 2007, but what brought you to Constant Contact?
Brad Sundberg:I don't know. I mean, I I don't know. I somehow found it, by 1 I was building a little database of, back then, it was AV clients, and I wanted some way to communicate. I've always loved writing. I'm writing a book.
Brad Sundberg:I think of myself as a pretty decent writer. And back then, you know, I would almost cringe if I went back and saw some of those early newsletters. They were very long.
Dave Charest:Yeah.
Brad Sundberg:Yeah. I I did long articles. I did wine reviews. I did movie reviews. I I just I dove into it.
Brad Sundberg:But people liked it. People that I don't think of myself as being, you know, a hysterically funny person, but I do have a, you know, decent sense of humor, And at the end of the day, with any of this, I'm selling trust, and I'm getting people to to trust me, which I hope is legitimate. So I could kind of tell longer stories. And this was kind of I don't wanna say it was before Facebook, but I think it kinda was before Facebook, certainly before we were active on social media. And it was just a way for me to tell some stories.
Brad Sundberg:The wine reviews, for whatever reason, were were really popular. And it was just a way for us to stay in contact. I didn't really use it, you know, hey, Sony's having a sale, you know, TVs for. I didn't really do it that way. It was more if I did a really cool system, I might show a couple pictures and share something about that system.
Brad Sundberg:But it was just a way for me to, you know, not to make this too obvious, but constantly stay in contact with my clients. So that that was a freebie.
Dave Charest:Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. We'll we'll take it. So it's interesting.
Dave Charest:I think some of the things that you're saying here are really on point. Right? It is really, at the end of the day, looking for ways that you can build those relationships with people. Right? And a little different from just saying, here, buy this, buy this, buy this.
Dave Charest:Right? Like, that type of thing. And looking at a couple of things that I I think you you said that are interesting. Like, one, I love the storytelling aspect that you're talking about. I mean, I was looking at a couple of your newsletters in preparation for this, and I love the way you were telling a little story that turned into, hey, and by the way, we're doing this event, and you can, you know, like right?
Dave Charest:So great job there. I really think that's great. But I think the other thing that is interesting, and I think particularly interesting for for business owners out there that I I wanna have them hear this too, is that one of the things that you said was if I went back and I looked at my newsletters before, I would cringe. Right? And I think anybody that's doing anything probably feels the same way.
Dave Charest:I know I do with, like, creating content and, like, doing things like this, and creating podcast, like, all of that stuff. And it's like, I was talking to someone the other day, and it's like, you really have to have this progress over perfection mindset, because that thing that you did worked well for you at that time. At that moment in time, you were doing the best you could do. And, yeah, sure, you go back because you learn through repetition and doing it over and over, you get better. Right?
Dave Charest:Sure. But if you wait to do those things, you're not getting the benefit you could be getting by doing that. Right? And so I It's
Brad Sundberg:a stepping stone.
Dave Charest:Exactly. So I I love what you're saying there. So I guess, out of curiosity, if you had to narrow it down, what would you say would be the number one reason that you decided to to use Constant Contact then?
Brad Sundberg:I mean, I'm repeating myself. It really is just to, you know, if you I'll use an example. If we have our air conditioner fixed in our home, have a good encounter with the air conditioner guy, maybe he leaves his business card. Literally, a day and a half later, I don't remember who the guy was or what his phone number is. So, you know, with what we do, whether I mean, the 2 of them are similar where whether I'm building a home theater or bringing people, you know, into my music world for a day.
Brad Sundberg:It's a relationship, and if I'm, you know, building a music system, it's more than a 7 minute transaction. You know? It's it's a a design, a sale, an install. The events, I guess, are a little bit different, but I think it's vital, and I'm not to pick on the air conditioner guy, but I think the air conditioner guy should be collecting an email address and saying, hey, look, man. I'm gonna put you on my mailing list.
Brad Sundberg:I'm not gonna flood you with, you know, crazy spam stuff. But it really is, you know, obviously in both venues, whether it's a home theater or my events, it works. I mean, people, they like to hear from us. They like to know that we're still around, kinda special. And there's special things that I'll do for the newsletter that I may not do on social media.
Brad Sundberg:My newsletter followers, they're really people that have been to my event, and we we winnow it down. I mean, if they wanna unsubscribe or bounce or whatever, I'll just delete them because I don't wanna pull my numbers down. So, you know, the the group that we've cultivated, they most of well, I I think I think my numbers right now are about a 46% open rate, something like that, which I'm pretty pleased with.
Dave Charest:Yeah. That's great.
Brad Sundberg:Yeah. No. It's it's just it's a good way just to keep reminding them who we are, and that we're coming back to their city maybe towards the end of the year.
Dave Charest:Yeah. When you think about, I guess, just your experience using Constant Contact, you know, what has that been like for you?
Brad Sundberg:So cards on the table. I used to do all the newsletters myself. About a year ago, I brought my daughter, Maddie, into, you know, she she's really helping run a lot of the social media. So I still do the writing. I do the bulk of the writing, but we've we've shrunk it way down.
Brad Sundberg:My my newsletters today are a fraction of the length that Which I think is right.
Dave Charest:Right? Like, this is a different time period. Right? So
Brad Sundberg:I try to keep it you know, I don't really do the stopwatch thing, but you can read my newsletter probably in 60 seconds and still have time to go take a sip of coffee. So she really does. She's I think she's done a really nice job. She does a lot of the formatting is kind of too strong a word, but, you know, lays out the blocks and all that. I love, you know, just keeping the whole database of email addresses, going through the process of, you know, once it's done, sending it out, seeing who opens it, the feedback on the back end, I think, is great.
Dave Charest:So, you know, we talked about some of these things where you're you're talking about building relationships, staying in contact with people, making sure that they remember who you are, because at the end of the day, this is really what it's about. If you had to describe your marketing strategy, if you had one, or if you maybe you don't. I don't know. But like, what would you say it is?
Brad Sundberg:It's it's kind of, you know, it goes multilevel. Obviously, we have our returning guests, and, whenever I do an event, let's say there's 50 people there. We were just at Stockholm in December. I think our numbers were kind of in the the mid forties, something like that, which is perfect. I mean, that's a nice sized group for what we do spot on.
Brad Sundberg:What I and, again, I've kind of fallen into this, but if all 40 of them were returning guests, that doesn't do me any good. So we're right now, we're running about 20, 80. I've got about 20% returning and 80% new. I have never taken a marketing class in my life, but that's right where I wanna be. Yeah.
Brad Sundberg:There's something about that pocket that's just like, boom. I I've got people that are coming back, and they're telling their friends. So we're obviously trying to keep our our current, you know, our former guests happy. Even though they've been to my event, it changes year after year a little bit. We want them to come back.
Brad Sundberg:We want them to feel welcome. We want them to feel like there's, there's gonna be something new for them. There's community that's been built. But we're really after the new guests, and that's where we we have to buckle down and do target marketing, and we do that through storytelling. I do write again, Facebook is kinda my my fallback because I I can just settle back and write a long story.
Brad Sundberg:But we do it through storytelling. We do it through you know, sometimes we'll throw a little video clip in there or something maybe they haven't seen before, a little insight about Michael or something. So, you know, you've got to grab their attention and then make them stay long enough to figure out what this is all about.
Dave Charest:Yeah. Do you treat or have you do you do anything specifically, and I'm thinking specifically within Constant Contact for people that you know have attended versus people who haven't? Do you talk to them any differently?
Brad Sundberg:No. In terms of through constant contact?
Dave Charest:Yeah.
Brad Sundberg:Not really. We use it as a, actually, let me let me answer it a different way. Everybody that receives my constant contact has been to my event.
Dave Charest:Has been to the event. Okay.
Brad Sundberg:That's how we gather. Yeah. So those are actual documented guests that have bought a ticket. Gotcha. And so those are yes.
Brad Sundberg:We don't really use Constant Contact, what I call the newsletter. We use it as a marketing tool, and certainly we, you know, tell people, hey, invite your friends. We're coming back to Ireland, whatever. But we're not using Constant Contact right now as a Prospecting. Someone who has no idea who I am.
Dave Charest:Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Fair enough.
Brad Sundberg:That we use social media for that.
Dave Charest:Gotcha. No. That makes sense. What do you love most about marketing?
Brad Sundberg:I hate it all.
Dave Charest:Well, that that's a that's a good answer. Right? So tell me a little bit about that. That.
Brad Sundberg:No. I mean, well, it's so funny because when when you are a business owner, you either sit on the couch and eat popcorn and stop you know, and go broke, or you've gotta get out and beat the drum. No. I what do I hate most about marketing? I don't even really think of myself as a marketing person, but I'm not sure I really hate anything about it.
Brad Sundberg:On Constant Contact, and this is a
Dave Charest:The question was what do you love about it.
Brad Sundberg:So What do I love about it? Okay. Okay. What do I love about it? Well, you know, pitch, hit, run.
Brad Sundberg:I mean, you know, when when you actually connect with people, there it's kinda multilevel. If I connect with them, and they love a story, or they learn something, that's great. I mean, we we use YouTube for, for longer form, you know, sometimes about audio basics or interviewing producers or different things. And I'm not really selling over there. It's more yeah.
Brad Sundberg:I hate to say it, but I'm a bit of an expert in the field. And so I guess I'm selling a little bit of expertise. I'm selling a little bit of credibility. I do love that. I love when we connect with people.
Brad Sundberg:I just got a phone call a few days ago from a friend of mine. He'd never been to my YouTube channel before. And he said, man, the way that you broke down how a mixer works is really interesting. He goes, I don't even know what a mixer is, but you did a really nice job. So that side of it, I love.
Brad Sundberg:Obviously, if I take an ad out, you know, I mean, right now, we're doing some target marketing in Tokyo, which is kind of funny because we can't write in Japanese. But you take an ad out, and you see ticket sales, you know, all of a sudden, the numbers start to go up. That's rewarding. I mean, I I love that. So it's a yeah.
Brad Sundberg:I probably didn't I didn't mean to come off as negative. It's just I don't I don't feel like I'm an expert at marketing by any means.
Dave Charest:Well, I think it's an interesting thing that you bring up, which I find through all the people that I've talked to, and and just, you know, even personally, is there's the a negative connotation with the word many times. Right? You say marketing, and you're like, oh, right? Like, I hate it. But if you think about the things that you said through this conversation.
Dave Charest:Right? I love storytelling. I love sharing my expertise. I love doing all those things. All of those things are fantastic marketing.
Dave Charest:Marketing. Right?
Brad Sundberg:You're right.
Dave Charest:It is just it's an interesting thing, though, that happens to us internally when you just frame it as, oh, yeah, marketing. You know, and so, it's just that I hear that a lot from people. So
Brad Sundberg:And the truth is, jokes aside, I really am fascinated by marketing. Yeah. I love advertising and the psychology behind it and how, and I'm talking like Coca Cola level. But, you know, I no. I I genuinely love that kind of stuff.
Brad Sundberg:Just the the brilliance that goes into creating some of those ads that that are clever. Yeah. The ones that are really interesting.
Dave Charest:So well, I'm curious, you know, from your kind of day to day, your workflow, like, how are you finding the time for marketing, depending on those things that you have to do?
Brad Sundberg:I brought my daughter in.
Dave Charest:Well, I mean, that's a that's a that's a valid answer. Right? I mean, like, I mean, you're doing it for many years yourself, so I guess thinking about the transition from, okay, when you're doing it yourself, even the things that you have to do, like, you're talking about creating videos and things like that, or or using social, And then, yeah, what led to the decision to, okay, I'm gonna have my daughter do this now, and so I could you know, so, like, talk me through that a little bit.
Brad Sundberg:Well, I mean, it you know, there have been I'm not a big TV guy. I'm a boring YouTube guy. I love travel videos. So you kinda make a choice. You know?
Brad Sundberg:It's it's 7:30 at night, and you had a nice dinner. Man, do I wanna, you know, catch up on a couple YouTube videos, or should I buckle down? I've gotta I've gotta start promoting, Belfast and, and Montreal. Well, it takes discipline, and not every night do I feel like, you know, writing a story or or doing a post, And we get lazy. You know, sometimes, you know, yesterday, we got a little lazy.
Brad Sundberg:We just threw a poster up on social media. Can't wait to come to Belfast, and I didn't really elaborate on it at all. So it takes discipline. But if you don't do it, you're not gonna sell any tickets. You know, yeah, you can watch YouTube videos till you're blue in the face, but you're not accomplishing anything.
Brad Sundberg:Yeah. So it really does take a bit of self discipline.
Dave Charest:So to that point of the discipline, which I I agree with you, and we've also found this through conversations, but do you go as far as scheduling time in your calendar or doing anything like that? Or, like, what's your process for getting that stuff done?
Brad Sundberg:Yeah. It's I'm looking at the whiteboard right now.
Dave Charest:Oh, great. Well, that's good. That's a good start.
Brad Sundberg:Yeah. We we we do the best we can. Yeah. The one thing that we're pretty disciplined on, and it's pretty funny because it's 2 o'clock already, is we try to get a newsletter out on Wednesdays. Now I did you know, I do read the stuff from Constant Contact, and and and you and I didn't rehearse this.
Brad Sundberg:But but I have if I'm not mistaken, the best time to get a newsletter out is on Wednesday mornings. Now I'm late. You know? We're probably not gonna get it out till this evening, but we we really do try to do that. The answer is yes.
Brad Sundberg:We're not quite as organized as I wish we were. And again, it's a balance. I mean, sometimes, I I do just wanna have a nice dinner with my wife, go upstairs, and work on on stuff. So you've gotta find that place where you're, at least for me anyway, where I'm I'm getting the work done. You know, we are doing the promotion that needs to be done, and I'm still I'm not becoming a slave to it.
Dave Charest:Right. So if I'm hearing you correctly, are you sending are you sending weekly, every Wednesday, or are you doing every other Wednesday? You try. You try. Okay.
Brad Sundberg:We fell off the bandwagon last year. You know, I'd probably have to go back and look. But it was about midyear or something like that when Maddie and I really sat down and said, okay. We've gotta tighten this up. So, yeah, we really try now time goes so fast.
Brad Sundberg:This might have been a year, year and a half ago, but, that's when we really reformatted it. And if you there's there's one point where in my newsletters, it changed. Okay. And it was probably a year, year and a half ago we changed the banner, and that's when we really buckled down and said it's gonna be shorter. It's gonna be just a quick minute and a half read, something like that.
Brad Sundberg:We always end it with a silly little dad joke. Just the dumber the better. And people love it. Yeah. It's so funny.
Brad Sundberg:You just throw just a little nugget in there that's kinda fun. So, yeah, we are pretty disciplined about the newsletter on Wednesdays.
Dave Charest:Was that a frequency you started with, or was it a frequency you kind of learned into?
Brad Sundberg:Yeah. We learned into it. Early on, I've been with you guys for so long now. It's there's no way. I don't back when I was really doing the long ones, there's no way I could've done 1 a week.
Brad Sundberg:I was probably doing either monthly or by just whenever I felt like it. I mean, I didn't have quite that consistency. But, yeah, it was we we've tried to do the weekly for a while, and then we fall off the bandwagon, but we've been pretty good about it for the past year.
Dave Charest:So you mentioned earlier, right, of 46. I think it may be actually be 49, if I'm remembering correctly, when I was looking in there, in terms of your open rates and things like that. And I guess one other thing, are you seeing any other results from the emails that you send beyond those kind of opens and clicks?
Brad Sundberg:Well, we don't I mean, the only thing we sell is tickets. Actually, we do have a t shirt site, so we might start pushing that a little bit. But as silly as it sounds, you know, when when I connect with somebody in Hungary or someplace, and they they write me back a really nice email, that's very gratifying. If, you know, if I kinda touched on something that really means something to them, even in a short little story, that's very gratifying. Obviously, at the end of the day, we're trying to sell tickets.
Brad Sundberg:So if we send a newsletter out, we
Brad Sundberg:did a live stream on Saturday, and we do charge for our live streams. And we sent a quick newsletter out on Wednesday just telling people, hey, we got a new, live stream coming up, and boom, you know, ticket sales, you know, got a nice little bump in sales. So it is a tool, and it's a tool that has to be used.
Dave Charest:What would be your best piece of advice for someone else getting started with Constant Contact?
Brad Sundberg:Let's see. Manage the database, which if I'm not mistaken, that helps my numbers. I mean, if I'm if I'm sending 4,000 pieces out and only, you know, and 1800 of them are bouncing or whatever, I just get rid of them. Just delete, delete, delete, delete. Keep it short.
Brad Sundberg:There's so few you know, I get emails or, you know, newsletters all the time. And it's not to be disrespectful, but if I know it's just some some guy trying to sell me a refrigerator, I'm probably not gonna read it. So I love storytelling. And I think just telling a short little story as quick as you can if you're good at it. Not everybody and I'm not patting myself on the back, but if you're not good at it, that may not be your forte.
Brad Sundberg:But I think a short little story, a little, hey, here was the problem, here was the solution. Boom. And, just connect with people on that level. Throw a little you know, don't don't be afraid to show your personality. You know, we we did these silly wine tastings years ago, and it was so much fun.
Brad Sundberg:And I don't know. I might bring something like that back. Who who knows? But do more with most business, at least small business, it really comes down to trust. And you're you know, I'm trying to get trust.
Brad Sundberg:I'm trying to get somebody to trust me enough to purchase a ticket or buy a home theater, and I'm building a relationship. It's way more than I'm the cheapest, refrigerator salesman. And and if that's who you are, then knock yourself out. But you really need to use use the tool to sell trust.
Dave Charest:Yeah. I love that. Thank you for that. So as we kinda get to the end of our time here, I'm wondering, is there something that you learned from Michael over the years that's kinda serves you well today?
Brad Sundberg:Oh, man. Yeah. We can talk about this for an hour. Don't cut corners. Nobody is born a superstar.
Brad Sundberg:It takes work and work and work and work and more work. You know, it's it's funny because I I teach I teach at a lot of music schools, and, I teach at Abbey Road at London, Abbey Road in Paris. I do lectures. And I really just, you know, don't cut corners, don't cut corners, don't cut corners. And be show show grace, show gratitude.
Brad Sundberg:Mike was one of the most gratitude filled people that I've ever met in my life. So personality and how you treat other people goes a long way in any industry. And if you're in it for a quick buck, and I know we're getting off Michael, but that's not what Michael was about. Michael was about delivering an absolute quality product, start to finish, with everything that he touched. And I've I've tried to do that.
Brad Sundberg:And learn from your mistakes. You know, learn from other people. Learn from the greats. Watch how they do it, and try to do it better. Yeah.
Dave Charest:Well, friend, let's recap some items from that discussion. Number 1, explore paid social ads. Now, Brad mentions that he can get extremely targeted when it comes to promoting his events around the world. In particular, he's using Facebook and Instagram to do that. So paid ads on Facebook and Instagram can be a really a cost effective way to generate more sales.
Dave Charest:So it's worth setting aside a small budget to test with products, services, and events that you already know sell well. You can get started with as little as a $100. And good news for you, because you can also run those ads through a simplified dashboard right within your Constant Contact account. Check out the show notes for more details on how to do that. Number 2, put yourself out there.
Dave Charest:Brad mentions that people only get to know you if you let them. It's your personality, your sense of humor, and the things that make you you that capture attention. It may make you uncomfortable at first, but stretching outside your comfort zone pushes you into that place where you just may end up with a few more dollars in your bank account. And lastly, here's a reminder from Michael Jackson via Brad. Nobody is born a superstar.
Dave Charest:It takes work and work and work and work and more work. Remember, you don't often see the behind the scenes sweat and tears that people put into becoming an, I'm using air quotes here, overnight success. It's one small victory at a time. So keep going, my friend. You'll get there, and I'll be here cheering you on.
Dave Charest:So here's your action item for today. Take a look into running some Facebook and Instagram ads. As I mentioned, you can run those directly from within your constant contact account. I'll include some resources for you in the show notes. I hope you've enjoyed this episode of the Be A Marketer podcast.
Dave Charest:If you have questions or feedback, I'd love to hear from you. You can email me directly at dave.charest (at) constantcontact (dot) com. If you did enjoy today's episode, please take a moment to leave us a review. Your honest feedback will help other small business marketers like yourself find the show. Well, friend, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day and continued success to you and your business.