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Random people, random topics, talking on random sidewalks in the City of Saginaw, Michigan.
Hey, Ayesha Clark. Yep. She's amazing. Take one. So I wish that I I was recording before because we we we just had such an incredible conversation.
Phil:I like, I don't even know where, like, where we should start this. We maybe let's you you were talking about, environment and how the environment that you live in, that you see every day affects you. Can you tell me more about that?
Nyesha:Sure. I'll start out with something simple as far as perception creates your reality. So what I see is what shapes me and my environment. And if I see beauty then I want to create beauty and I want to preserve beauty and if I see the opposite of beauty but I like the agency to change it, then I just acquiesce.
Phil:Yeah. You you give up and say, well, is the world and I can't do anything about it. Mhmm. How does that connect in your view to art and public art?
Nyesha:So, what we were talking about as far as when we were off camera is that there are, you have different factions or schools of art. You have art for art's sake. I'll put a mustache on a postcard and dare you to tell me that this isn't art because you cannot define art as Duchamp did or I can use art to send a message. I can use art to convey an emotion or art. I can use art in the form of historical aspect because if you look at any society antiquated or not, you look at the art and the art is gonna tell you about what's going on during that
Phil:time. True.
Nyesha:It's gonna give a reflection of that present state of from the emotions to culture to governance. You're gonna discover that through art. So with art for us, I look at it as a form of agency and a form of stewardship and environmental.
Phil:We were we were talking about STEM Mhmm. And how you use the acronym STEAM Yes. Instead. Tell me about that.
Nyesha:So there's really there would be there would not be STEM without art.
Phil:Tell me more.
Nyesha:You had to have a creative mind to think mold would be penicillin.
Phil:It's true. It's true.
Nyesha:You had to have a creative mind to do what we're doing right now. This this this is a part of technology. Mhmm. Our computers in our pockets that used to be the size of a room. Flying transportation.
Nyesha:I can take it to stem, but without that creativity, without that art, where would we be? Would we have a wheel without art? The first form of technology. So, you can't separate art from STEM just as you can separate water from wetness.
Phil:I love you making that distinction specifically because it sounds like you're focusing on like the act of creation and of creativity. And and automatically, like, I'm thinking about the world right now and how pervasive AI is and like, well, what does that mean for for creative work? And what does that mean for the world? And how is the world going to change? Like, is that going to affect the world?
Phil:And and I and I when you talk this way, it gives me a lot of hope because like AI for as amazing of a technology it is, like, it what it lacks is that moment of human creativity, of human creation of like, I am a person bringing my experience, bringing my thought, my value, my my skills, my like my relationships, what has been taught to me. And through that, I am creating something new. And so like you can look at AI art for example and say like, yeah, that's a pretty dope picture. It took it ten seconds to make that. But what it lacks is that moment of creation.
Phil:Like that big bang of art that I think is so magical.
Nyesha:It's the soul.
Phil:It's the soul.
Nyesha:Yeah. Art is the soul.
Phil:What like, what do you see I I wanna get specific with art in Saginaw. Like, what what do you see art's role in the culture and the community of Saginaw? Like, how does it how does it make us a better community embracing not just public art, but all all forms of art?
Nyesha:Well, I would say that this isn't anything new. Pervasive. Art has always been an important part of Saginaw. We've always had artists from musical to illustrative across the board. We have the photography brothers, I can't think of their name, I feel bad right now.
Nyesha:But there's always been Art has always been a force to be reckoned with in Saginaw. But I think that we need to start expanding and there can't be the same two or three artists but we have to bring new people whether they are young or they're senior citizens but the thing about art is it's really for everyone And it's always open for interpretation.
Phil:Mhmm.
Nyesha:So there is no there is no glass ceiling and sometimes I think that we make a glass ceiling.
Phil:Yeah. How do we I love the conversation going this direction because it's linking the the art side of Naisha to also the the community activists, the community organizer side of Naisha. When you said like, we need more artists in Saginaw. How
Nyesha:do
Phil:we do that? Like, how do how do we invite more artists? How do we cultivate more artists? How do we kind of create that community, greater community of artists within the city?
Nyesha:They're already here. Build it and they will come. Build it and they will come. Yeah. People just have to to know and and then there's the other part.
Nyesha:The other part of art is the social cohesion. I was a part of a commissioner board at the career complex, Saginaw Career complex and what I noticed was and it was part of the arts and I noticed two different things happen. I noticed that some of the kids already had internships to do graphic design at their uncle's design shop or car lot.
Phil:Yeah.
Nyesha:Right? But then some of the kids, they said, I'm going into nursing or I'm going to the service because they didn't see a pathway. So our job is really to create a pathway because for some people you have this talent but you just grew up hearing oh you know such and such they can draw really well but they didn't see that pathway. It's our job to create a pathway and people like us had to suffer and create our own lane. Mhmm.
Nyesha:You get what I'm saying? Yep. So do we pull the ladder up or do we make a chance for make opportunities for people's people to do the same and they don't have to go through this. Mhmm. I'm a photographer.
Nyesha:You're a photographer. I'm gonna get a young person to be a photographer out here. Mhmm. Mhmm. We both do videography.
Nyesha:I'm not doing it.
Phil:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Nyesha:We're capable of it but why? Yeah. I've done it. It's somebody else's turn.
Phil:The the creation of opportunities and the reduction of barriers to those opportunities I think is so brilliant because one of the conversations kind of floating in Saginaw is like how like the the future, like how like how do we continue building a better future for this community? And and a lot of times what we miss is, well, the passing of the torch. Like like, how do you how do like, you you have done amazing work, community leader, whoever you are, like, for thirty, forty, fifty years, you have done so much good in this community. But if over the course of those decades, you haven't said, hey, 13 year old, come take pictures at this event. Hey, come to this meeting with me, young potential politician.
Phil:Hey, young person, come with me. Like, when you pass away, all of that work is now gone. And now now we have to wait for somebody else to, like you said, like, create their own opportunity and restart it. But, if you hit the ground running and you say, young artists young photographers come to this event I could have taken photos at but it's important that you're here like they carry on the work long after we're gone.
Nyesha:And then that's not the only torch because you know shocker I'm not the only black artist in Saginaw. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So that's not the only torch.
Phil:Yep.
Nyesha:So eliminating those barriers and creating a pathway of agency from all the arts you know because we'll have actual artists out here but we'll have photographers you know we'll have videographers, we'll different aspects of the art. Let's give agency to all the art. Let's not even capstone it or categorize it. Let's open it up.
Phil:Love I love talking to you because you really stretched my brain because I say something and you're like, yeah, but Phil you're still creating lanes. Like, you're still creating a structure that says, well, photographers. Yes, artists. And you're like, Phil, let's not put that on. Like, what about all the different kinds of creativity?
Phil:All the different kinds of art? Why can't we have dancers out here dancing? Why can't we have people making quilts in the corn? Like, why can't we have all of these things here?
Nyesha:And Yoga. All of them.
Phil:Yoga. Love it. So what we should do is circle back and explain why exactly we're we're seated here at the skate park. What what is what is going to be happening here at the skate park right outside of Celebration Park?
Nyesha:So on September 1 Labor Day, we will be coordinating with the City of Saginaw from a grant called the Healthy Community Zones through MDHHS and we are going to paint the park and it's gonna be called the last splash. The last splash because it's the last day that the splash park is open. Yeah. Courtesy and shout out to Danita for coming up with that. She always comes up with it.
Phil:Oh, you're so smart, Danita.
Nyesha:She is. Is. She's awesome.
Phil:She is awesome.
Nyesha:So, we are planning on painting the entire skate park. All ages, all bodies, all shout out to our youth in Saginaw. This is inspired for them. Yeah. A lot of the youth will be taking lead positions during that day.
Nyesha:Awesome. As far as the hosting, photography, videography, the artists. So I'm excited. I'm excited because this is something that the whole community can do. There is no skilling required.
Nyesha:I'm really excited about how we can create more social cohesion because Saginaw is a vibe.
Phil:Saginaw is a vibe. It is. Tell me why. Explain the vibe. Can you explain the vibe?
Nyesha:The vibe is survival. Saginaw used to be a salt mine. We did logging. Mhmm.
Phil:Malleable iron.
Nyesha:We had iron. We had all of the foundries and we have had we have been exploited where where companies and industries will come in and exploit our resources. And you would think that it would be enough to kill off a city but because we are survivors and because we are Saginaw strong, we just keep reinventing ourselves. So now we have this opportunity where from a political and national standpoint, Saginaw is considered a harbinger. We are considered a bellwether.
Nyesha:What happens in Saginaw is a reflection of what happens across the nation because it's a it's like a microcosm of The United States. Right?
Phil:Mhmm.
Nyesha:So what if we decided to take that and say fuck it. Let's make it beautiful. Let's be stewards. Let's take care of our environment. Let's take care of each other.
Nyesha:Let's get rid of all of the isms. Let's knock all of the glass barriers down and just do this shit and let's be that example. What will happen? What will happen?
Phil:You get Man, you get You're getting me fired up. I agree with all of them. And I think I think what you're saying is really is really the future of this community. And I love like I love you like speaking life into the community in that way. And so like, no, like we can do this.
Phil:We can do this. And I like there's such when you said like, we're survivors. I work with communities across the country and I'll ask them like, how would you describe your community? And almost every single one of them use the word grit. Like, we're a gritty community.
Phil:And And that that might might be be true. True. Like, Like they they they they might might be be gritty. Gritty, but I always follow that up with, yeah, but you're not Saginaw gritty. Like you're not you're not Saginaw.
Phil:And I think there's a depth to a community and a culture and a personality of that community that can only happens when you've gone through shit. Yeah. Like, when you have a history of going through shit and then you pick yourself up and you try to make things happen and you do it again and you do it again and you do it again. And like you you are essentially forging a community through that kind of hardship. And I think that that has created that that vibe.
Phil:Like, there's something intangible about Saginaw that makes this place so special for so many people.
Nyesha:Yeah. And the fact that we are like one of the few, fun fact, few bodies of water that flows upstream instead of downstream like the Nile River.
Phil:That's on brand for Saginaw. Right. You know what? We're gonna turn this river upside down. We're gonna go the opposite way.
Nyesha:So on brand.
Phil:Well, for the for the skate park event, if somebody's listening to this and they they they wanna participate, they wanna paint, they wanna be involved in some way, do they do they have to register somewhere? Do they just show up? Or how do you wanna go about that?
Nyesha:They just need to show up.
Phil:Just show up.
Nyesha:On on Labor Day, show up, bring paint clothes, and bring splash clothes.
Phil:What time?
Nyesha:The time is from thank you. The time is from twelve to eight.
Phil:Twelve to eight.
Nyesha:So we'll be painting out here all day. One zero seven, we'll be out here live streaming. We'll also have a DJ. So we're gonna you know, it's the last splash before, you know, before this weather hit, baby.
Phil:Yeah. You know? This event feels like such a vibe. I love all the different public art arts groups in Saginaw. I love this event because it's I don't want like, messy is the wrong word, but it sounds like very it sounds like Saginaw through and through.
Phil:Let's show up at the skate park. Let's hang out. Grab some spray paint cans. Let's make this thing beautiful. Bring your kids.
Phil:Bring your grandma. Bring everybody, and let's just make some art and see what happens.
Nyesha:That and that's the vibe. That's the vibe. Yeah. That's the whole vibe. Yep.
Nyesha:You don't even have to paint. Right. Come and bring a blanket.
Phil:Yeah. Hang out.
Nyesha:Chill.
Phil:Chill.
Nyesha:Yeah.
Phil:Love it. Nyesha, I love talking to you. I I love I love talking to you. I love the work that you're doing in the community. On a personal level, I love, like, every every time we have a conversation, you challenge me.
Phil:Like, I'm I'm I'm I I tend to be a very opinionated guy, and then you challenge me, but in a way that makes me feel like we're friends and that you care about me and that you just wanna nudge me in a different direction. And, like, I walk away thinking differently and man. People, if you're listening to this and you don't know Nyesha, you got to. You gotta come to this event. You gotta meet her, meet everybody, and I wanna thank you for this event, for all the work that you do for us here in the city, Sam.
Nyesha:Thank you, Phil. You know I always call you my people.
Phil:You're my people. Really? I
Nyesha:don't know what that is.
Phil:I was trying
Nyesha:to give you a
Phil:pound. Awesome. Cool. Thank you so much. Okay.
Phil:Sidewalk talk, Nyesha. Alright. You're cool. You're done.