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Decision Intelligence Zone is a podcast that unpacks how real decisions get made—exploring the emotions, strategies, blind spots, and patterns we don’t often talk about, so you can sharpen your thinking and make better choices in leadership and life. Hosted by Dr. Magda Du Preez, a decision intelligence researcher at the intersection of business and psychology, and Christi Mertens, a leadership team coach specializing in team decision-making and collaboration, the show blends science with real-world insight. Through honest conversations with leaders who’ve built, broken, and reimagined things, we explore the decisions that shaped them—and the lessons that matter most when it’s time to choose.
Christi: Hi, and welcome back to
the Decision Intelligence Zone with
our dancing friend Chris over here.
I am really excited, for this
episode, and that is because we
have Chris Taylor here joining us,
who I have known for many years as
the owner of Actionable Co. Which.
Specializes as a SaaS product in helping
people make sustainable behavior change
that drives results for organizations.
And we are joined by Magda our resident
experts in decision intelligence and
helping us unpack how our emotions
impact our biases and, getting better at.
Flexing some of those decision muscles.
Chris, you run a business that is like
a teenager going off to university.
It's 17 years old.
You have started a second business,
supporting the lovely coaches and
consultants that work with you,
and I am really excited to hear
more about you and, unpack some of the
decisions that you've probably made
personally or that you've been exposed
to, along your journey with such a
big team and audience around you.
Chris Taylor: So fun.
Well, thank you for having me on.
I'm looking forward to the conversation.
Christi: So let's actually
start with you though.
You started a company called
Actionable many moons ago.
tell us about that.
Like, how does one make a
decision to start a business?
I.
Chris Taylor: Ha.
Partially by choice, partially by force.
I, I'd started actionable as a, as a
project, like a side project while I was
working full-time for a marketing agency.
And, uh, then it started growing
in popularity and it took.
Some of my time and almost
all of my enthusiasm.
And so I was, unceremoniously fired
from the marketing position for
basically phoning it in for six months.
I was very angry with him at the time.
Completely justified in hindsight.
now I needed to make some money.
'cause as a 20 something year
old at the time, I had nothing
saved and basically needed to go.
And so, uh, actionable
started as a business.
Really just to pay the bills.
So it was, you know,
what can I do with this?
So it wasn't a tech company yet.
it was effectively a book
summary service at the time.
and I'd had some soft requests for
training and so I thought, well,
I'll go, I'll go be a trainer.
Uh, I could do that.
I started running workshops for clients
very much by accident initially.
Christi: That's amazing
and very much by accident.
And then it's not a book company anymore.
How many years later
you, you've been through
Chris Taylor: years later.
Christi: I'm curious like, you
know, you probably came to forks
in the road and you're like, okay,
do I continue to be a book company?
Do I go be a trainer?
Do I how you got to where you are today?
And how do you decide keep
going or just pack it up?
Chris Taylor: Um, I think so.
I mean, if you go in very rapid
succession, so actionable was
a book summary service that
didn't have an income stream.
Then it was a training company, then
it was prepackaged training content.
Then it was a coaching program.
Then it was, uh.
Sort of tech company, and then
it became a tech company and now
we're on the brink of layering a
certification on top of the tech company.
So there's a whole bunch of
iterations over those 17 years.
And I think one of the things I'm, I'm
probably most proud of, uh, in my own
growth, has been making smarter decisions
along the way as opposed to, uh, doing
it by default because it entered my head.
Well, I was having a shower
and decided this was the
direction that we should go now.
Because honestly, it was sort of,
it was sort of that I was following
my passions or what I felt was an
injustice in the world for the first.
Three iterations of that.
And we, I mean, we barely kept afloat.
And I did that largely by moving
money around constantly, which
in a legal way, but that sounds
highly illegal, but in a legal way.
but it wasn't really until I got
serious about making decisions based
on, uh, sort of identified need and
then doing a sanity check around how
do I feel about that, as opposed to.
How do I feel about that?
And I'll figure out who
the audience is afterwards.
Uh, it was the flipped ratio on that
that sort of led to us having that nice
hockey stick that everybody looks for.
Christi: It's interesting
because so many people do that.
They're like, I have a great idea.
I'm gonna go spend a all my world's
resources on that and hope for the best.
but you said something really important
there that I wanna connect back to Magda,
which is like, how do I feel about that?
And I'm gonna go race after it.
cause none of us on this
call have ever done that.
so Magda, tell, tell me like
the emotional side of that.
I have a good idea.
I must go and make my choice right now.
Magda: I actually think, uh, it
might be interesting if I just, share
the, the model because each of our
emotions have a predictable way on
how they trigger our decision biases.
And in a performance context is for
that matters most, the gatekeeper is our
ability to be appropriately confident.
That means to not be swayed
by, uh, our opinions as much,
but really rely on the facts.
so not overconfident.
And not under confident in what you think
you know versus what you actually know.
And, and then the second one
is to appraise risk accurately.
The third one is to create decision rules
that that actually help us to make smarter
and quicker decisions in our context, not
confuse with values that last much longer.
And then also the ability to
resist that framing on just.
Going with whatever is positive, if
that's your inclination or whatever
is the negative news, but if that's
your inclination, but remain right
dead center in the middle and and,
and remain objective and to know how
each of those emotions influence us.
So actually Chris, I would like to know
from you what were the emotions that, if
you can remember that went around in your.
Body when you said, oh boy, I
probably have to flip this since I
have to start to make money on this.
Chris Taylor: Yeah, I appreciate it.
Um, and we were talking about sort
of skewing positive or negative.
I mean, I am, I'm a hard
skew positive by default.
Um, will find the opportunity, which
I think it's interesting because
I think it's a bit of a blessing
and a curse, and I wanna come by.
Back to your question in just one
second, but I really believe that
entrepreneurship in general requires
people to be alm unrealistically,
optimistic around what's possible.
right, if you're making decisions purely
based on the stats, it's a bad bet, right?
Like, don't do it.
So I think there's a piece
of that that holds true.
But, but to your point, Magda,
when that was driving the decisions
around where I was going with
the business, that less good.
Um, and got me in trouble
in a couple times.
I think originally there was, Uh,
a need to prove myself like I was
angry when I first started because I,
like, they shouldn't have fired me.
I was the greatest thing
that's ever happened to them.
How dare they sort of thing.
I'm gonna go show them.
I'm gonna go start a
multimillion dollar company.
Exactly.
Well I was like a 25-year-old white kid.
So, you know, I felt very, uh,
anyway, there was that, it was
like a, a need to prove people.
I dunno if that's an emotion per
se, but it was very much like.
Negative, emotion driven.
and actually it's probably, you
know, it's funny, I hadn't really
thought about this, but probably the
first few cycles of the business was
the need to prove somebody wrong.
which again, probably not the best
reason to start a business, uh,
although it, it did provide some fuel.
Magda: it's fuel, it's energy.
Emotion is so energy, and you need
that as long as you know what it does
to your decisions and navigate that.
Chris Taylor: Well, I do now.
I didn't back then, but, uh.
Magda: But even that because anger
makes you take too much risk and
pride makes you take too much risk.
You needed to take those risks to start,
so it gave you good energy for that
as long as you, and, and at some point
you twisted that around a little bit.
Chris Taylor: I, it's a very kind
lens you've pointed on that picture.
I think I needed to take some risk.
I took a lot of risk that
was completely unnecessary.
Like we, when we first decided to get into
tech, I brought in a business partner.
We put almost 3 million bucks into
building out a piece of software that.
We didn't end up using, we
ended up scrapping the whole
thing and starting over again.
At the time, just for context,
the business was generating
about $400,000 a year, right?
So $3 million is not a drop
in the bucket, at that level.
So like those decisions were,
were based out of hubris and.
And ego and probably
a little bit of greed.
There was a sense of it's,
it's ours for the taking.
and maybe I'm being a little
harsh on that, but there was
definitely an element to that.
hubris for sure.
I remember putting our decks together
for investors and it was like, just,
just rock solid conviction that we
would be a billion dollar company
within six years, like, obviously.
Christi: Uh, appropriate confidence that.
Chris Taylor: Non-existent.
That's right.
Magda: Yeah, it goes all over the place
because actually we've done a study,
uh, a couple of years ago with people
in sales, and for every 10% of more
accurate and appropriate confidence,
26% more year over year sales,
Chris Taylor: Starting from a baseline
of overconfidence or under confidence.
Magda: no, whatever, 10% you get better.
At, they, they, they, they make
20%, and it was still a small study,
but we've seen that, correlation
hold up across different places.
Obviously, I think the percentage will
differ a little bit here and there,
but the correlation is very strong,
very
Christi: it's something interesting
though 'cause you work with a lot of
entrepreneurs, Chris, so like that zest
for like overconfidence in my ability
and I can do this and I will do this
and like I must succeed and there is
no other path with that happening.
I mean part of it is you said
you've learned a lot over the
years What have you learned?
Like what's brought, like is it
objectivity, is it like, what's, what's
the path there that you feel like it's
different than when you were younger?
Chris Taylor: Yeah,
those are trade secrets.
I'm not comfortable getting,
no, I'm just kidding.
Um, so the, I think, so a couple things.
I'm hardwired to action and I
know, I know a lot of people in the
entrepreneurial space that are hardwired
to action and some of the fascinating
studies around the correlation between
entrepreneurship and A DHD and So I
don't, I, I think trying to, trying
to hold back the action is a mistake.
What I think we can do is take potentially
even faster action on small bets.
I, you know, I was just talking to someone
the other day who I had had a call and
then two weeks later I had another call.
And in between those two calls
I had launched a scholarship and
got it up and promoted it and had
like six promotional partners.
And they were, they were marveling
at the speed and I. I appreciate this
makes me sound, uh, self-aggrandizing,
but I think there's something to that.
If I had said, I'm gonna start a
whole new not-for-profit scholarship
and it's gonna be this big thing and
I'm gonna staff it and it's gonna be
the next like that, that's a mistake.
Before we've tested it, what I
did was spin up a landing page and
shoot a video and share it with some
people to say, is this interesting?
rather than trying to be more, for
me anyway, rather than trying to be
more tempered on all decisions, it's
identifying if there's a small version
of the thing that I can do first where
success or failure doesn't really matter.
I've lost a couple hours, right?
And go with that and then use that
data to make a more informed decision
around, do I go bigger with this?
It's the bullets over cannonballs
Jim Collins, uh, bit right?
Magda: But, and that's also appropriate
confidence because basically what you
are doing is you're checking for facts
as opposed to just opinion
Christi: And a feeling that
Magda: and evidence.
Christi: the world needs
this and everybody's gonna
pay a lot of money for this.
chip and Dan Heath called that
ooching, which I liked way
better than experimenting.
ooching your way into it.
But I, I think that bias for
action that a lot of people have
sometimes can get you into trouble.
And so I love that kind of
channeling it is what you're saying.
And like then you're getting the data that
you need and not waiting for the data.
I think you're just taking the action to
get the data, which is really interesting.
So is that part of the formula?
That's what you've learned is start
small, experiment a little bit,
Chris Taylor: For sure.
That's, that's a huge piece of it.
I think following along those lines, so
small experiment, same idea of action.
I've, uh, built layers of boards
around me, board of advisors,
board of investors board.
Anyway, so there's three, uh, groups.
So I have investors, lenders, and
advisors that were cherry picked
and they each, each of those groups,
I have sort of on speed dial.
Again, I can channel, I've got this
idea who out of that Rolodex could
provide an alternative perspective
so that I can, I can reach out, I
can share my idea with enthusiasm,
because I've selected these people.
I, I've conditioned myself to listen
when they talk, as opposed to if
someone from the outside comes in
and go, this is a terrible idea.
I'm like, I don't know who you are,
so I don't really care about your
opinion, but if I've chosen this group.
I trust them and I believe them.
And what I really want is
alternative perspective.
So again, sort of channeling action, but
this time into let's collect experience
from those who have done this before
Magda: But that's exactly part of what we
teach because you need to kind of bounce
it off with a, with a trusted brain trust.
Because that's, that's the people that
you can rely on and you have to, because
otherwise, and there's also evidence
that shows that if you have a collective
group like that and you just ask them
what's the odd in terms of risk, they're
gonna come up and, and everybody think
in their head, they don't say it.
And in a group like that, you get
to the right odds oftentimes, as
opposed to when you just use your own.
It's so cool.
Chris Taylor: Yeah, especially when the
positioning is shoot this down, right?
Tell me why I shouldn't do this.
Uh, and then they have not
just permission, but the
request to actually do that.
And I find for me, I don't know
how this translates to others,
but for me, getting it off early.
That request for feedback.
I haven't had time to become too
emotionally invested in the idea, and so
it's easier to let it go when I haven't,
you know, poured over this for days and
hours and built a whole bunch of stuff.
Then it's really hard to let it go.
Right?
Christi: Yeah.
'cause then you have your sunk cost.
So I've done that before where I'm like,
oh, I have this brilliant idea that
somebody told me I should maximize.
And I'm like, I'm just gonna do it.
But the perfectionist in me has
the complete opposite reaction.
So I'm like, I'm gonna do it.
I'm gonna build it.
It's gotta be perfect.
It's gonna take months to do.
And then you lose your steam and your
momentum and wait, have you actually gone?
Talk to your, like your brain
trust, your board of advisors about
the, the viability of this thing.
I, I have to believe a lot of
people, it goes back to the
entrepreneurial mindset, get shit done.
Um, but do so with kind of objectifying
the work that you're doing and making sure
it's not just a good idea in your head.
It's.
Chris Taylor: Yep, a hundred percent.
Christi: That's really helpful.
Okay, you're getting wiser by doing
smaller experiments, you're getting wiser
and you're decision intelligence by using
like diversity of thought and bouncing
ideas around before you're moving forward.
you know, you talked about, Holding
back on action can be a mistake.
And I think there's a, an interesting
balance there, because of those people
that who are resistant to making mistakes
and are afraid, like Magda, you said
something about, uh, appre, appraising
risk and we're not good at that.
Like unless you have grown up
in a space and been trained in
that, we're not actually good at.
Uh, quantifying risk and understanding it.
and sometimes we get into that
kind of analysis paralysis space.
So how do you, fight that?
Chris Taylor: so there's
two parts in this for me.
One is.
It's sort of 0.3 from the earlier set of
lessons learned around decision making.
I've been really focused, particularly
for the last 18 months or so, ons
bit meta, making decisions about
which decisions I should make.
into parts.
I've been building teams, I've got
within actionable, and now within
Catalyst, I've got people that I
trust to, well, that I have said I
trust in the past to run the business.
But are you really trusting
someone if you're making all
these decisions for them?
I would suggest no.
Uh, and so part of it for me is
being anytime there's a decision
that enters my head, the first
question is, is this my decision to
make current state and future state?
Is this the opportunity to
actually transfer this type of
decision to additional person?
Christi: That is brilliant.
just a little nugget and soundbite
because, uh, as a coach, one of the things
I see within teams is that as a major
tension point in any size of organization,
is the stepping on the toes of whose
decision it is, and not delegating that.
So, uh, just asking yourself
every time you wanna do
something, is this my decision
Chris Taylor: Yeah.
Is this my decision?
And if it is, if the answer's yes
for me, then the next question
becomes, does it have to be?
Because if it doesn't, then I'm gonna try
to hand that off as soon as I can to, I
think we have, I don't know, there's, I
have no science on this, but my opinion
on it, uh, which you're all entitled to,
is we only have so much decision making
juice on a day or week, or month basis.
I'm sure there is science on it, but it's,
I don't have it, and so we can't, I can't
waste it effectively on the smaller things
that are relatively inconsequential.
oh, here's a tip that's totally off topic.
Anyone listening to this, find
the most expensive peer group
that will let you in and join it.
Because the more money I have invested
in basically buying my way into
the room with high integrity, high
functioning business leaders, the more
I get exposed to their brilliance.
Uh, the bus, my business has
grown at a corresponding rate.
So brief little PSA for
whatever network you're
Christi: I like that, that PSA,
and just for clarification, like
it is a network or a group coaching
team or an association that you
wanna buy your, like, be a part of,
Chris Taylor: Yeah.
Christi: like the six people
you hang out with will influence
how you operate as a human.
Got
Chris Taylor: Yeah.
And so I joined a group of seven and
eight figure business owners earlier this
year, and it's been really enlightening.
tend to have one to two projects a
year that they're working on each.
Their businesses might be doing a bunch
of stuff, but on a personal level,
one to two projects for the year.
And it was,
Christi: that.
Chris Taylor: yeah,
Magda: they do it really well.
Chris Taylor: They do it really well
and they make, and then it, it just
gives them the space and the time and
the, and they're very busy people, but
as far as the projects that they're
actually making conscious decisions
around, it's one to two projects a year.
And so every decision, whether it's
major or micro within that they are
very attentive to, and, and, and it
pays off like the, you know, these,
these folks know what they're doing.
So I, I think it's.
I've been thinking a lot about that.
Like there's this spread of decisions
that we make every day, and so Amy,
my wife and I have started that
made it sound like three people.
Amy is my wife.
Myself have really started to
offload pieces of that, right?
It's like groceries are
locked every week or month.
The date schedule is locked
at the beginning of the year.
The kids' activities are locked,
our vacation plan is locked.
We do it all in one shot so that
we're not making these micro
decisions on a regular basis.
We can be more present with
one another with the kids.
I can be more focused on the
business during non-family time.
And, and then taking that same philosophy
and applying it to the business as well.
It's, I'm wearing a black T-shirt 'cause
I always wear black t-shirts, like less
decisions so we can make better decisions.
Magda: actually one of the examples we
use in sense to teach people to make sure
that you don't run into decision fatigue.
Because there is science behind it.
Actually, I'm not gonna go
into it, you, you're right.
And, and it makes sense to actually
act also just like you have a task,
you know that, okay, these are my
task list, these are my calendar.
That's where I see people.
So what are the key decisions that you
have to make if you write that down?
And even if it's small ones.
Get them off the list.
If they're small ones, if they're
big ones, and they, your priorities,
have your priorities in front of
you and just stick to those rocks.
We actually teach that
as part of, of ga sense.
Yep.
It's so cool to hear it in practice.
Thank you.
Chris Taylor: You are welcome.
Christi: I love that compartmentalizing
your decisions too, because
we talk about, reversible or
irreversible decisions, right?
Like the reversible ones, like just.
Make them and move on.
Do not spend too much time on it
versus like those big ones, like the
one to two areas of focus for you.
presumably you're making big choices
inside of that, that are irreversible.
That's where it deserves
your time and attention.
But that concept of like, consciously
thinking through these are things
that take up time and space for me
emotionally and mentally, like my husband
and I having the chat about dinner.
I don't, I dunno, by the time five o'clock
comes around, like I can't, I don't, I
do not have processing power left to even
pick something if we were to order it.
So I love that you pre-plan all
of those decisions and so they're
made and then you have time and
capacity to think in the middle.
Chris Taylor: Yeah.
And for anyone that thinks that that's
boring or it traps you into something,
I a hundred percent that you can change
your mind with those, particularly
those reversible decisions, right?
Like if we decide not to do the thing
for dinner and order instead, then great.
Right?
The point is we don't have to
make the decision in the moment,
Magda: because routine sets you
free, routine frees up your mind
it gives you space to think
of other mental space.
That's why.
Christi: I wanna go down
the path of routine.
I'm writing down, I'm taking notes
over here on your, your guidance,
Chris, and wisdom that you're sharing.
So we're up to three things so far.
But, but speaking of routines, It
takes me into a space of like part
of what your business actually does,
which is happy helping people, to
create and form the habits that are
gonna help them be successful in
whatever it is that they're doing or
goals that they're trying to achieve.
Um, so we know routines are helpful.
We know that process, uh, for
decision making is helpful.
But like, what are the routines
that you've created for yourself
in addition to, Pre-planning my
dinners, for example, for the month.
Like that is a routine.
It is off out of the capacity of my head.
But when you're faced with do I
start another business which you
have done, how on earth do you like?
What are your, how do you filter that?
Like how do you decide, how do
you create the space for that?
Chris Taylor: yeah, so
tiny bit of context.
So actionable is a technology and
methodology and community sort of triad
that helps leadership consultants prove
the impact of their training programs.
So, super niche.
I know Christi knows that
for everybody else, the.
As the tech and the methodology
became more sophisticated, it
became more and more appropriate for
consulting organizations that were at
a certain size, typically a minimum
of about half a million a year.
And up into the, you know,
eight figures, which was a
smart decision for the business.
It gave us focus.
We said, we're not gonna work
with the little guys anymore.
We're not gonna do sales and
marketing support anymore.
We're gonna do behavior change
and only behavior change.
And the business grew.
'cause when you shed all, you know
the stuff, then you end up with
something lean that can move faster.
So it did.
And then about four months later,
Chris, that would be me, was walking
around going, something's missing.
What something's missing?
What is it?
And, and I realized how much I genuinely
love supporting solo consultants
in figuring out, uh, what I would
call sort of the foundations of,
you know, what is it you're doing?
Who are you doing it for?
How are you getting in front of them
and what are you selling it for?
On a way that sustains you so, you know,
business fundamentals for consultants.
So I had so emotion, I had this desire,
this sense of, it was really a need
for contribution more than anything.
I just, I wanted to support that group.
I was very busy running, actionable.
so two things had to be true.
One, this had to be.
Structured in a very different
way, this new business, so that
it wasn't taking anywhere near
the time that actionable was.
And two, the team needed
to be okay with it.
The actionable team needed to be okay
with this because I wasn't willing
to jeopardize one well-established
business for this idea, right?
Christi: Yeah.
Chris Taylor: So I made the decision, but.
Similar to what we were describing
before, I did it as a test project,
so I didn't incorporate, I ran it as a
sole prop, which in Canada in many way,
I dunno what it is in the states, but
basically not a complex legal entity.
And I invited a handful of people.
I said, this is what I'm gonna be doing.
Would you wanna be a part of it?
I had a cap of 12 people.
I said, look, this is not my
priority from a time standpoint,
but I'm gonna show up three hours
a week and we're gonna do this.
And if you're interested,
this is how much it costs.
And I, I sold all 12
seats in like 48 hours.
I went, alright, so
there's something there.
There.
Now can I actually support this, like
sustain it on three hours a week?
And I did.
And I could.
And so great.
So I ran that for about six months,
just sort of figuring it out.
It was Friday mornings regular
and constant communication with
the actionable team around.
is this creating bottlenecks?
Is this, uh, slowing down
the growth of the business?
Is this impeding your life
or business in any way?
Uh, ran that for about six months when
I think this is working on both sides.
And was fascinated to see that actionable
actually started growing faster when
Chris wasn't across everything, which is
probably a conversation for another day.
to the comment from earlier, I was
looking at the evidence of the activity,
so what's actually working, what's not.
And so then six months
later I incorporated it.
I said, I'm gonna keep
it at a certain size.
Had a bit of a happy accident late
last year and it doubled overnight.
and went, ah, okay.
Um, and then I've since started building
the team slowly within Catalyst.
So I think the decision for me
was going back to the question,
really listening for a while.
Like, oh, I don't know, probably three
or four months, which is a long time for
me to this urge that I have to do it.
Is it.
Based on the fact that I slept well
last night or is there something
actually deep here and it was sustained.
That desire, that sense of purpose.
The sense of like, I want to do this.
Then tested market need.
Found the need, then tested,
uh, capacity, capability, found
capacity, then made it a thing.
Christi: you formalized your
process of going after this, like
you went from the experiment to.
Market need to market fit to capacity
fit, and then like inch your way into
the, the growth of that business.
Chris Taylor: Yeah.
It was the polar opposite of how
I started actionable, so, yeah.
Magda: So, so that's actually,
it's, it's so cool because that's
actually sequencing it, and you,
you kind of start to make almost
like a rule for your own sequencing.
Chris Taylor: I think that's,
I think that's well put.
Yeah.
Christi: and now you teach that.
I wonder, I hope you're writing
this down because I hope you're
teaching this sequencing to all the
people in your Catalyst requirement
entry into the the Catalyst Club.
there's something interesting there.
So like the process, like actually
finding your path and your process
to, not shortcut the decisions, but
to make as Magda calls it a more
intelligent ones on your path to growth.
and making it easier on yourself, right?
Like that's what did you, this is
like the past two years, not even,
versus your other baby who's 17 years.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Magda: I have a question
on that 17 verse two.
what made you decide to
keep the 17-year-old?
Chris Taylor: Hmm.
that's a great question.
so it's similar, but the other
side, to entrepreneurs shouldn't
look at the stats because it'll,
you know, talk you out of it.
I had a couple very rocky years.
I had a, I had a business
partner who was incarcerated.
I had some stuff happen, not
anything to do with actionable,
but it impacted the business.
I had some family health issues.
There was a number, there's probably
about a three year period where
most people around me were telling
me that I should shut it down.
I think that stubbornness kicked
in again with No, I will not do
that because someone told me to.
well, I'll tell you exactly what happened,
because two and a half years ago, three
years ago, I met with one of these
boards that I had put together, and it
was the first meeting and I was sharing
the financials for the first time.
and I said, look, as you look at these
financials, I know that this business sh
there's places that I could go that would
make more money right now, and that the
logical path would be to shut it down.
I'm not gonna do that.
I don't want to do that.
And here's why.
And I'll tell you guys
why in a sec. I said, so.
I don't want any advice around shutting
it down 'cause that's not why we're here.
I've thought long and hard about
this and we're moving forward.
For me, Magda, some businesses,
you start to make money.
Some businesses you start to make a dent.
And I started the real actionable,
we'll say around 2018 after
a whole bunch of pivots.
Before that 2018 was the start of.
There's this industry that I love so
dearly of learning and development
and professional training is being
massively underappreciated for the
impact that it is creating in the world.
The reason for that, as far as I
can tell, is because there is a
gulf divide between the work that's
happening in l and d and what's being
accounted for on in business metrics.
And I said that's it's large
gap, but it's not insurmountable.
And so there's got to be a way
to connect the dots between what
happens in the training room and how
it impacts the business scorecard.
it's very much a sense of purpose for me.
I would do it if I wasn't being paid.
Like it's a calling, it's a belief.
It's a, I want this change to happen.
I've accumulated some exceptional team
members and clients over the years, I
wanna make the dent in the industry.
I want them to be a part of that.
I want them to get what they
want, like the promise realized
outta what they bought into.
Magda: That's great.
And, and, and that passion,
that emotion of desire and hope
Chris Taylor: do I come
across as passionate?
I don't, I didn't.
Magda: is, is, is also, uh, creating
the feel you need, the emo the,
the energy you need to keep going.
And that's what all entrepreneurs do need.
And then it seems like along
the way you also accumulated the
decision intelligence skills to
know how to use that fuel wisely.
Chris Taylor: Thank you again.
You, you paint me with
such a positive brush.
I, I'd like to think that it's better than
it was and there's still room to grow.
I just, I wanna touch on that because
that internal drive, yes, most of
the time is the thing that fuels me.
And some of the times when it was.
When it logically was time to
give up, it was the, uh, not
wanting to let other people down.
And so I think sometimes we
can look to other sources of
inspiration along the way.
There's places where I did not want to
keep going with actionable, but I felt
like I had to, to provide for others.
And I don't think that's a
healthy, long-term motivation, but
I, I'm really glad it was there
because I probably would've quit.
A couple times over, you know, sort
of the middle, that dark middle.
Had I not had that.
So I think getting inspiration from
wherever you can to keep going.
I know this isn't a show
about entrepreneurship, but
this is the other thing.
It's like, the more I see
it's not intelligence.
It's not innovation.
It's not even for someone
starting a business.
It's like, it's the keep
goingness that leads to success.
Right?
Like you just keep going.
It'll, it'll.
Christi: It's the keep goingness,
it's the persistence, it's the
word I heard once is actually grit.
That gets you through
those hard times, but.
going through that like that we know
sense of purpose can drive you to achieve
so many things on different levels.
And so it's really, it is inspirational.
Chris, your enthusiasm is, uh,
contagious with respect to that.
So things that I've heard you talk
about, and this is, this is so
fascinating 'cause I've known Chris.
Since, for a long time, like
double digits years probably.
and in that time, I don't think we've ever
had this conversation, so this has been,
this is really helpful for me, but things
I've, I'm taking away, to help others,
like calibrating a bias for action.
This is a lesson that you've
learned along the way.
Don't, not take the action but calibrate
the bias for action and do so in small
doses like starting with experiments.
and tied to that is this process that
you may be directly or indirectly
have created for yourself as you moved
into launching your second business.
'cause I'm sure it's
not your, your last one.
Once you good at things.
I think I can see another one
I'm sure in your future, but like
creating that process for yourself.
It's like the ooching into a market
testing, market fit testing, your
capacity fit until you actually have
something that you can take off the
ground and you know that it's gonna work.
Uh, you talked about doing that
with the support of a brain
trust, so like your boards.
Your multiple boards, which is, advisory
boards is really great 'cause you're
ensuring that you're staying objective and
looking at things from different lenses.
And the one that I love the most, I think
out of this is choosing where you're
gonna focus your energy on what decisions.
So be that through the delegation
and is this my decision to make?
Should it be my decision
to make or somebody else's?
So like that offloading or preloading.
Decisions, like I love that
concept of preloading decisions.
It's so smart because it makes
your days easier and your brain
capacity stronger throughout the day.
and then this final point around
like channeling your inspiration.
Because it's hard.
It's hard.
Like you have had some hard days
that you've gotten through, and come
out the other side, but then look at
the, that sense of purpose driving
you to support other entrepreneurs
and other people in their business
that wanna be successful as well.
So I think that's huge.
Um, what would you have
to tell your younger self?
Chris Taylor: I mean, thinking
back on the stuff that's had the,
I have very few regrets in life.
One regret that I need to come to
terms with was that after the business
sort of imploded, when I lost my
partner and the whole thing, there
was about a five year period where
you say the business is 17 years old.
It's, it's not, it's 12 years
old, spread over 17 years.
'cause those five years were
basically just Groundhog Day of like.
Doing, staying hyper busy,
making no real decisions.
It was like, this isn't working,
so I'm gonna keep doing it faster,
uh, because maybe I can dig my
way outta this through speed.
Uh, so I would go back to.
I think the first point that I raised
today around the, the making decisions,
but small decisions, like I, I had this
story in my head that I didn't have
any money, so I couldn't do anything.
that's nonsense.
You can't, that's not true.
Right?
Of course, there's a whole
bunch of stuff you can do.
Even if you don't have cash, you
may need to brainstorm it a bit,
but the mental block isn't true.
So I would've zoomed out from the
day and looked forward and said, what
happens if I keep doing what I'm doing?
Realize that nothing was going to change
and then, uh, and then shift direction.
So I think that's the biggest thing.
But otherwise, no, I'd just
say enjoy the ride, man.
That's what I would
say to my younger self.
Christi: I love that.
Magda: And I just have to pick up
on one thing that that came across
so clearly from you and which is,
which we also know from research,
is that emotion is contagious.
So if you are, keep fueling along those
energizing positive emotions, other people
will pick up around, around you will
pick up on it and they will go with you.
the opposite is also true.
Chris Taylor: Yeah.
Turns out no one wanted to be a part
of my blood feud against the previous
marketing agency that had, lemme go.
Christi: Such conviction though.
Oh, So amazing.
I've always like such a good
inspiration, Chris, I love this.
I've, I've learned something
about you and something that I
am going to go practice actually.
The, the offloading and
preloading of decisions.
This is brilliance.
Chris Taylor: I appreciate that language.
I like that offloading and preloading.
Christi: Yeah, that's great.
We need a third one so that we can
have a, a little triangle there.
for those that don't know
Chris, he loves to draw
Chris Taylor: Love triangle.
Christi: loves triangles.
There's always a triangle, so
we'll get a third one in that.
Chris Taylor: Strongest shape.
Christi: It is the strongest shape.
I've had engineers prove that to me.
you used the phrase shedding, like,
I'm like shedding these things.
And sometimes that less is more.
there's so much in there
that people are not good at.
Chris Taylor: Right, and this is the key.
I've been training the
team on this as well.
It's like the very first question
I ask is, well, what happened if
we don't make a decision on this?
like, just to explore that forward, right?
Because sometimes we get all
bent outta shape, but like, I
gotta make a decision about this.
Like, well, what if you didn't
Like what would, what would happen?
Christi: this has been enlightening.
I have learned a lot.
I appreciate everything that
you've shared, your wisdom,
your guidance and lessons.
Uh, and just like the fact we've
talked about you through your like,
entrepreneurial experience and life.
but this is applicable to anybody
in any business situation as well.
Magda: Absolutely.
Christi: about the starting the business.
It's good.
Thank you.
Chris Taylor: Amazing.
Appreciate it.
And Magda's, Magda's, brilliant insights.
Dropped in.
I felt like I was getting
the, um, what is it?
It's like, it's like when you pause a
video and then have like, it's like a
nature documentary with the, uh, subject
matter expert on the animal being like,
and this is why they're doing this.
That's what it felt like.
It was amazing.
So thank you.
Christi: It's so true, right?
Chris Taylor: Yeah, anthropologists.
Christi: yes, yes.
The anthropologist here.
Our decision anthropologist.
Ooh, that's what we should rename you,
Magda, the decision anthropologist.
Chris Taylor: I love it.
Christi: I'm gonna use that.