Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Practical conversations to help you grow in your relationship with Jesus Christ.
Judging Others
===
[00:00:00]
Speaker 6: Hello everybody and welcome into another episode of the True Discipleship Podcast. We are your host. My name is Aaron. And I'm Morgan. And we're here for another week. This is week three, episode three, rather of a season two of the true discipleship podcast. And we're just going to go ahead and hop into things really quick here, , to make sure we leave enough time for today's conversation.
But we do want to start off by saying thank you so much for everybody who has left comments and connected with us online or in person and told us how much you're enjoying this. we're excited to be [00:01:00] back. We really are truly enjoying it. A couple of things you can do if you are also eNjoying this podcast is whether you are on Apple podcasts or Spotify, or who knows, maybe , some other platform out there.
If you can just go ahead and leave us an honest five star review. Morgan, do you want to tell them what an honest five star review is?
Speaker 7: Uh, we are not asking you to leave five stars because you think it's five stars, but you can caveat that it's not five stars in the comment section of the review. That's
Speaker 6: right.
All of these platforms, they don't really care what you write in the comment box as long as you leave us five stars. So leave us five stars, but we also want to hear how we can get better. So write in that comment box, uh, your honest feedback. On top of that, you can always be sure to follow us on all of our social media platforms, including Instagram, which is, , at True Discipleship Podcast.
We're at over 700 followers over there right now. , which is pretty cool. We, I'm trying to think, I think we got up to 500 when we were putting content out just over the past couple of weeks have grown a ton. So, , thank you so much for that. I know that sounds like not a lot, but for us who [00:02:00] record in our office at home and we're like, who really cares about what we're doing, that actually does mean a lot and goes a long way.
So follow us on Instagram and have a conversation with us. We love to have conversation with people on there as well, and, , who knows? Maybe it'll even be a con continuation of the conversation that we are having today, which is all about judging others. Judging others. That's a big umbrella topic. I think it's a big word.
It means a lot. It's not a big word, but it's a big word. It's a weighty word. Uh, Morgan, when we talk about judging others, what comes to mind?
Speaker 7: Not great things.
My, my initial definition or what I think the purpose of judging others is, um, is making an assumption about a person with limited information.
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, that's good. I like that. I think, uh, yeah, [00:03:00] let's play off of that for a little bit. So the idea of making an assumption with limited information, I think it applies to different things.
I think it applies to the way that we look at other people. I think it's the way we look at certain situations. Um, I think that's where judgment comes in a lot, right? You only get a. portion of the details of something, and then you fill in the rest yourself. At least that's the way that we think of judgment.
It's, uh, I mean, you hear things of like, only God can judge me. That was a big thing that like for the longest time, only God can judge me. Uh, which I heard somebody say one time, they're like, that's a terrifying thought. Like if, if, if God's the only person judging you, that should be enough to scare you.
That shouldn't make you feel like you're off the hook. Right. But it's the idea of like, you don't know my life. You don't know anything about me. How do you think you can, you know, You know figure out who I am or why I do the things that I do or Yeah, I have all of these activities that I participate in but only God could judge me, right?
You have no right to speak into my life on these certain things or the way that I live my life at all I like that. Yeah to to make an assumption with limited information ?
It's um, [00:04:00] Yeah, I feel like you're taught from a pretty young age. Don't judge anybody. You don't know their situation You don't know what they're going through yada yada, and that is all 100 true But I want to look at the word judge In just like a textbook sense. Okay. This is just the, Google definition of judge, it just means, , a public official appointed to decide cases in a court of law. So that's like, you know, the person that wears a big black robe and has the gavel. And then, so that's the noun, but there's also the verb, which means to form an opinion or conclusion about.
So those two things, I think typically when we say do not judge one, don't place yourself in a position of authority over someone else's life, because who are you to do that? To think you know better than someone to make decisions about their life. And then the other thing in the sense of the verb is don't jump to conclusions.
Don't try to formulate an opinion without knowing all the details. And so on that standpoint, [00:05:00] I could easily see how we think as disciples and as followers of Jesus, we are never supposed to do that. I mean, you see Jesus have conversations with people all the time who on paper, I mean, just think about Matthew, right?
Jesus goes over to Matthew's house and what happens? The religious leaders see him there and they're like, what's he doing? Eating with tax collectors and sinners. And then Jesus checks them, right? He gives them the famous, , you know, the sick are the ones who need a doctor, the healthy don't whatever. So, there was a judgment from those people of like, why is Jesus hanging out with those sinners? He must be a sinner. Well, clearly they were missing some of the information or some of the details that Jesus had that made him feel comfortable in that sort of environment, right? So Yes, I think that's when judgment gets dangerous, but as it pertains to this particular conversation I just want to think about the church for a minute.
And when I say the church, I mean the family of God Christendom in general We often Get labeled as judgmental [00:06:00] like as a blanket statement Christians are judgmental Do you think that's a fair assessment? Yes, or no
Speaker 7: The more we record this podcast the harder it gets to have definitive yes, and no good I
Speaker 6: mean, I think that's our goal in a lot of these conversations but go ahead and give me your why do you say that?
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think I said this in the last episode too that like we do firmly believe that there are absolute truths where there's no gray area, but I think this is a case where it's tough to say yes or no.
What was your original question?
Speaker 6: It's tough to answer that question because I don't remember what it was. Uh, is it fair to say that Christians, Are judgmental.
This is the beauty of this platform. You can answer and you can clarify what you mean by your answer
Speaker 7: Yeah, because my answer is yes and no.
Speaker 6: Yeah. So what do you mean by that?[00:07:00]
Speaker 7: I don't want to say no, because then I think it just looks like we're trying to make ourselves look good. Like, Oh no, we're not judgmental. Let me
Speaker 6: ask you this question. Have you ever met a judgmental Christian? Yes. Okay. So there is a yes. Have you ever met Christians who were not judgmental? Yes. So that's your yes and no, right?
Yeah. So let's talk about both of those experiences. And why do you think so many people have a negative taste in their mouth? Regarding Christians, because they assume they're all judgmental.
Speaker 7: I think when we encounter one bad of anything, it just sours our taste for the whole group.
Speaker 6: That is so spot on.
That's so good.
Speaker 7: Uh, I mean, we can go to fruit analogies and how one bad apple ruins the whole bunch. And it's almost like, I don't even know the number of wonderful, non judgmental Christians you would need to run into [00:08:00] to be able to counteract the one negative experience that you had.
Speaker 6: This is just a true principle for all of life,
, I mean, you can take any people group and think of how that, Has been perpetuated whether it's police officers whether it's Politicians whether it's people of a certain nationality like you meet someone of a particular group or have a typecast Placed on those type of people and then you think well if one's like this They're all like this and then which ironically it's a very judgmental thing to say about the church is if you're like, man I met one Christian and had a bad experience.
Now. They're all I think there is this kind of a You I don't know if hypocrisy is the right word, but there is kind of this circular reasoning of like, oh, well, I don't like Christians because they're all judgmental. Like that's a very judgmental statement to make, right?
Speaker 7: So as we dive deeper in this conversation, I think we're going to sort of dissect this.
It's word judgment and judging into two types [00:09:00] of judgment. And there is the horrible judging, making an assumption about a group or a person or a situation with limited information. I don't
Speaker 6: know anything about you, but this is how I feel about you.
Speaker 7: And that's what I would call stereotyping. Like that's judgment stereotyping.
Speaker 6: It's prejudice. Yeah. It's pre judging. It's judging without having all the details. Yeah.
Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah. Oh man, root words are so fun, isn't it? Yeah. Like that word shows up in that
Speaker 6: judge. Oh
Speaker 7: man. Remember high school vocabulary? Um, but then there is a healthy judgment that I think we're going to get to in this conversation of there should be a healthy judgment. That we are allowed to express for the sake of our brothers and sisters.
Speaker 6: Yeah. We even use this term all the time, right? Of good judgment or bad judgment.
Like I'm a good judge of character. Like there is a form of judgment that is good that all of us [00:10:00] wants. It's almost tied to this idea of kind of common sense a little bit. Um, but yeah, we're, we're kind of having this conversation in a little bit of a, I don't wanna say roundabout way, but I think there's so many different nuances to it and things to understand.
Um, I'm, I'm trying to think of, you know, I would say right now it feels like culture is more judgmental than ever. Going back to what I just said a minute ago in the sense of everyone has to draw a line in the sand And say this thing is good or bad.
Speaker 7: That's why I feel like I can't say yes or no to your question Like yeah, I can't say yes and no I have to choose one.
I have to be definitively Yes, the church is judgmental or no The church is not judgmental
Speaker 6: which you don't have to be but that's kind of the society that we live in, right? I think it's cancel culture and polarizing and polarizing. Yes is everything You Is this person in good standing or in bad standing?
But cancel culture is a form of judgment. I mean, these people have been given a, um, what do you call it when somebody makes a decision? Like there's a, [00:11:00] the, , like a ruling in a court case, right? Like you've been ruled by society as a good person or a bad person. Uh, the belief that certain groups are good or bad.
The belief that, Liberals are right or that conservatives or wrong the belief like all of these things are judgments that we enact every single day, but somehow the narrative has become the church is judgmental. And I would argue people would probably say the world is not. I mean, depending on how you look at it, right?
Like in the world right now, you can live your truth. You can be whatever you want to be. You can do whatever you want to do. You can say whatever you want to say. You can go wherever you want to go. That feels like I'm, I'm just free to express myself. There's no judgment in that. But then in the church, the moment that somebody shows up and they hear the gospel, which we kind of talked about this a little bit last week, that says you're a sinner.
Well, now I'm offended because that's a judgmental statement. Who are you to call me a sinner? How do you [00:12:00] know that about me? , or this behavior that we're, that you're doing is sinful or wrong. , but these behaviors are right. , I think all of that kind of contributes to the idea of, , yeah, the, the belief that the church is judgmental.
I would also say, man, the church, I mean, we got some bad press. Like a lot. I mean, think about who you see in the news as representatives of the church, , Westboro Baptist Church for the longest time, you know, the people that would pick it at military funerals and stuff like that and say like, Oh, all this bad stuff is happening because God hates gay people and all this sort of thing.
Like those were all of that was the image that so many people had in their mind of the church for so long. And then even now we look at kind of what this weird neo nationalistic. Pseudo nationalistic, pseudo evangelical movement is doing of, you know, uh, really we see this blending of religion and politics and now your [00:13:00] politic is your religion and all this sort of weird stuff.
And so now it becomes, oh, I don't like those people because they're trying to tell me what to do with my body or who I can or can't be and all this stuff. melded together that it is easy for people to say, man, the church is judgmental. But this is, this is what I would say. And I realized this is going to be a big jump and I'm leaving out a lot that probably should go right in, in between these two statements of the P the world views, the church is judgmental.
And what I'm about to say next, there's a long conversation to be had, but if Christians are people of conviction, how can we not be judgmental? Let me clarify what I mean by that not in the negative sense of we're just wagging our finger at everybody telling them how to Live their lives in the positive sense of if I have a conviction of what's right and what's wrong How can I not stand on that conviction and then make rulings in my own life based on that conviction?
so how can I not say that something does please God or [00:14:00] doesn't please God. How can I not say if something is sinful behavior or God glorifying behavior? , I have to live these sorts of things with this filter, that I would say is the Holy Spirit of what's good for me and what's not good for me.
And we talked about this last week, , following Jesus as a, as a constant conversation of what would Jesus say and do about this.
And then based on what Jesus would say and do, well, now I have to make a judgment. A proper judgment, a healthy judgment, a healthy decision based on all the facts that I've been given on how am I going to live my life now. I think that's what true biblical judgment looks like. , but , that is something that's internal, right?
, that is me making decisions for me. Not me making decisions for you on what you should or shouldn't do. But that does come with nuance. Which we're going to see not just from our own perspectives, but based off of what the Bible says. So [00:15:00] we're about to read some passages of scripture here that I think are going to be really eyeopening for a lot of people.
I know they are for me. , when we have a clear interpretation, clear understanding of what these famous passages actually are talking about.
We keep trying to talk around it We just need to get into the scripture because I think getting into scripture will actually paint the picture I'm
Speaker 7: actually waiting for you to read Matthew 7 1 that's where I go right now So that I can share a thought that I had in response to what you said in the first
Speaker 6: The first block that we had there.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. There
Speaker 7: was like something you said that I was like, Oh man, I want to talk about that. But then I was like, man, I'm just going to be saying what [00:16:00] the scripture is saying. Well,
Speaker 6: let's go ahead and get into it. So this is the part that typically people take out of context and Gets translated as don't judge.
So this is Jesus. This is a sermon on the Mount. Jesus is a rule of life. Um, you can call it whatever you want. Uh, I think, uh, I've heard people call this the kingdom manifesto. It's like the rules of the kingdom of heaven. This Jesus laying all this sort of stuff out. And so here he's talking about judging others.
And he says in Matthew chapter seven, this is verses one and two says, do not judge others and you will not be judged. For you will be treated as you treat others, the standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged. So this is, I mean when you read that, Jesus says do not judge others.
That feels like it should be point blank period, right? Jesus says, don't do it. So I'm not going to do it. And this is the verse that often gets taken out of context. But when we read the next three verses, it actually changes our perspective on [00:17:00] what Jesus just said, So he continues verses three through five He says and why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own?
And how can you think of saying to your friend, let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye when you can't see past the log in your own lie, hypocrite, which that word is huge. I think tied along with the idea of the church being judgmental is the church, the idea of Christians being hypocritical.
Um, but Jesus continues. He says, first, get rid of the log in your own eye. Then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye. I'll let you go ahead and share what you want to share first and then. I'll give some.
Speaker 7: So you were talking about, the church having this, this record of being judgmental and the yes answer that I have of like, I agree with that.
, and this like negative, uh, why is the church so judgmental? I think there's a perception that the church is just outwardly judgmental and not judging themselves [00:18:00] at the same time. And that brings in that hypocrisy piece.
Speaker 6: Which is the case sometime.
Speaker 7: Yes. And that's why I say sometimes the church can be judgmental and we're not looking at the, is it the log in our eye?
Yeah. We've got the bigger issues. We've got the log in our own eye. And we're, we're not taking care of that in order to help people outside of the church. Um, I'm
Speaker 6: going to do this. I'm going to wrap last week's episode in with this one. And this is all going to be, uh, a conversation called judge rightly because Harrison bucker actually got into this a little bit in his speech I was I kept hearing this swirl around in my head and like who said that I realized it was him Again, we didn't get into last week talking about catholicism because he was talking to catholics But he has this moment where he says we have to get our own house in order That's a part of his speech that I don't think we included in the thing last week But that's a point that I completely agree with he's like we can't we can't be [00:19:00] responsible for how everyone else is living You We have a responsibility though for our family to make sure that we have everything in order.
And that's what Jesus is getting at here. Is that if you have a log in your eye, who are you to point out the speck in somebody else's eye? Now, did you have something else to add? I'm sorry.
Speaker 7: Yeah. So I feel like there's no way to win. Sometimes, um, like, the perception of the church. I'm still, I'm still on the, like, the people outside of the church see the church as judgmental.
And if I say that, yes, we are judgmental because we have convictions and we say, this is what we believe is right. And this is what we believe is wrong. And we are also doing that in our own lives. It's not just externally that we're screaming like, you need to do this and you need to do that. Um, [00:20:00] There's also like the conviction internally that we're holding ourselves accountable to and the world doesn't like that, but then they also don't like if you are saying, okay, don't do this and don't do that.
But also my life is perfect and I have it all together. And the holier
Speaker 6: than thou complex
Speaker 7: that I, that I, I'm doing no wrong. So I'm
Speaker 6: talking down to you from a place of supremacy. Yeah. So
Speaker 7: it's like, okay, you don't want me to have my life altogether until you hear convictions, but you also don't want to hear that.
I am also holding myself to this standard and Asking the same of you. Yeah. No, that's yeah, I get that. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense I find myself like frustrated of like, okay So do I share like hey, I I struggle with this and this and this and like these are the things that i'm trying to judge in my life of what is right what is wrong or come from a place of Well, no, like I don't even struggle with it I'm never gonna [00:21:00] come from a place of I have it all together because I don't spoiler
Speaker 6: alert.
We do We do not intentionally But it comes across sometimes that way to other people. Even if you don't view it that way internally. Oh, thought
Speaker 7: you were saying, oh, we do. No, we have it all together. No,
Speaker 6: no. Not that we have it all together, but whether intentionally or unintentionally, it does come across that way sometimes.
Um,
Speaker 7: oh, when we were exposing things was, that was the thing. Sorry, I totally No, you're fine. Go for it. Cut you off. But it like, man, this pregnancy brain, if I don't say it right, when I'm thinking it, get it, get it. We're gonna forget it. Um, there's this judgment in. Justifying myself so like externally the world can be like, Oh, well they don't even have it all together.
So how, why should I listen to the judgments that they're making when. They don't even know right from wrong or up from down and so it's like it's a bad word but like the dang if you do and dang if you don't so like
Speaker 6: you can that's in the Bible not the phrase but the [00:22:00] word you're fine it's short for damnation we're going back to those suffixes again
Speaker 7: so it's like okay so do I bear my
Speaker 6: prefixes Sorry.
Speaker 7: Um,
Speaker 6: root words. There it is. Root words. Root words.
Speaker 7: Um, yeah. Do I bear like my,
what is it?
Speaker 6: I don't know. I can't see inside of your pregnancy.
Speaker 7: Man, if you could, it's a mess in here. Um, yeah. Like, do I, do I put out there that like, I'm judging, I'm, we can, I think we're
Speaker 6: getting, I think you're actually getting ahead of yourself here because there's a clarity that we have to make. Later on down the road that we'll get to when we look at, um, first Corinthians, but I do want to say this about Jesus, you know, people would say, Oh, you don't have the right to judge me because you have a log in your eye and whatever.
If I have a speck in my eye, whatever [00:23:00] we need to be clear here that Jesus is not saying that our role is never to judge anyone. He's saying there's a criteria. In order to earn the right to speak into someone else's life. Look at what he says here. Looking back at verses three, he says, why worry about the speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own.
So there's an issue in your life that is, uh, predominant and affecting you because it's affecting you that actually blinds you from the opportunity and the way to see your friend rightly. He says, how can you think of saying to your friend, Hey, let me help you get that spec out of your eye when you can't see past the log in your own eye.
I mean, there's some sort of sin issue in your life that is. ruining and actually affecting your judgment. And Jesus calls those people hypocrites. And then he says, look at this. He doesn't say, because you have that log in your eye, you can't judge anybody. He says, first, get rid of the log in your own eye, deal with your own sin.
Get your own house in order. This is what Jesus is getting at. [00:24:00] Then. You will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye. So Jesus isn't saying that we're never supposed to correct somebody, we're never supposed to tell them when they're wrong, we're never supposed to, because people think, oh Jesus is loving so he's just affirming of every idea that I have.
No. Jesus is the only one who can correct you and call you out on your sin because he doesn't have that log in his eye. But he's saying, listen, as a follower of me, as someone who's a part of my kingdom, first come to me, let me help you take care of that sin issue that you have. And then from that place, because, oh man, okay, I'm sorry.
This is just like a new perspective that I just got on this, that I'm sure someone out there has had this, but I've never thought about it before. We can't get rid of the log in our own eye. We got to go to Jesus and let him take care of it. And so once we go to Jesus and let him take care of that log in our eye, that sin problem that we have in our lives, well, then we can go to our other friends and say, Hey, let me walk [00:25:00] through this path with you because I've walked to the pathway to Jesus and I've let him deal with me before.
So now it's not saying, Oh, Jesus dealt with me. So I can come and fix you. That's
Marker
---
Speaker 6: not what he's saying. What he is saying is is, Hey, I've spent time with Jesus and I've seen the way he's changed my life. Let me walk with you down the path to Jesus so that he can work inside of you as well. That's what judgment is.
It's biblical judgment. It's recognizing that something is wrong and leading people to the one who can fix it. Not us trying to fix it ourselves. That's just a moment right now that I had. That's man, that's beautiful. That wasn't a me thought. It just, I think that was a Holy Spirit thing.
[00:26:00] Um, okay. So now we get nuanced a little bit. Okay. We reach a passage that I remember the first time I read this. It's in 1 Corinthians 5. The first time I read this, I thought, if I heard a pastor here, stand on stage and say this, I would disagree with them, but then I recognized, Oh, wait a minute. This isn't just some guy on a stage.
This is the Bible. And so maybe I should take more heed to this and actually bring my life under the rule of it. So I'm just going to read this first kind of independently by itself, and then we'll go back and read more and kind of give some more of the context. But this is the statement that if I heard somebody say this, It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it is certainly your responsibility to judge those inside of the church who are sinning.
I think [00:27:00] if I heard that statement by itself, um, listening to a podcast, um, listening to some preacher on YouTube, reading a book, whatever. If I read that statement by itself, I'd go, no, that's wrong. That's not accurate. I'm not supposed to judge people inside of the church. Why? Because I'm not supposed to judge.
That was my initial response when I read this. And then I realized this is the authoritative word of God and said, okay, well, where do I have this wrong? And so I want to zoom out a little bit and let's take a look at it. You know what's funny? I actually, so I read this. I think it was back in, at least the moment when I had this interaction with this verse, I think it was 2017, 2018.
Uh, no, it would have been at least 2018 because I had moved out here 2018, 2019. And I remember I posted just that sentence to my Instagram story. I asked true or false. It's not your job to judge those outside of the church. It is your job to judge those inside of the church. And I think it was like 73 percent of people said false.
And then the next slide, I, like, in the Instagram story, I was like, [00:28:00] Actually, that's a direct quote from the Bible. And that wasn't like, again, this wasn't a me pointing a finger at anybody saying, Oh, you hypocrites, whatever. Or like a
Speaker 7: gotcha moment. It
Speaker 6: wasn't a gotcha moment. Uh, it probably was. If I'm honest, there was probably a little bit in me that was like a gotcha moment.
But it wasn't me doing anything to anybody that the Holy Spirit hadn't already done to me. I had my own gotcha moment with Jesus.
Speaker 7: I thought you would have turned this into a teaching moment. And you were, you were like, man, I just encountered this and I learned something. So let me, like, share it. It eventually
Speaker 6: turned into that.
Okay. But I was curious.
Speaker 7: Because you have a good heart.
Speaker 6: No, the heart is deceptful, deceitful, among all things, but I do think, uh, no, I'm, I'm not gonna lie, there wasn't, there was definitely maybe some level of self righteousness in me, of like, oh man, I can't wait to share this thing I just found, but, again, I'm openly admitting here that I was shocked and I probably if I was just clicking through and not thinking and had to vote, I probably would have said no, I disagree with that.
But [00:29:00] when you realize it is scripture, then obviously you take it in perspective on it. So let's look at what's going on here. Okay, this first Corinthians chapter five and , Paul's writing to the Corinthians because they're wilding out. It's specifically in the area of sexual immorality. , what we do know based on some things that are written here in 1 Corinthians is that this was not Paul's first letter with the Corinthians.
They had been having some correspondence back and forth and in this letter, in one of the previous letters, the Corinthians are like, Hey, here's a situation that's going on. What do we do about it? I heard somebody describe it one time as, uh, 1 Corinthians is like listening to one side of a phone call.
Like, I can't hear what's being said on the other side of the line, but I can hear what this person is saying. And so we hear what Paul's saying and very quickly realize, oh, this is some weird stuff. So I'm just going to start at verse one. Paul says, I can hardly believe the report about sexual immorality going on among you.
Something that even the pagans don't do. I'm told that a man in your church is living in sin with his stepmother. Oh, this is the [00:30:00] NLT. Uh, other translations say explicitly that this man is sleeping with his father's wife. That's the way that it's written out. Um, and so Paul continues, he goes, you are so proud of yourselves, but you should be mourning in sorrow and shame.
Now, I want you to just pay attention to what he's saying there. Paul's saying you need to be exercising judgment. He's saying you're, you should actually feel some level of conviction, realizing that something wrong is happening, not just in your life individually, but in the body of believers.
And as though I were there, I've already passed judgment on this man. Whoa, Paul, are you judging? Yeah, he is he says I already passed judgment on this man in the name of the Lord Jesus that sounds holier than thou Right, but Paul gives him further instructions. He says you must call a meeting of the church I will be present with you in spirit and so with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ So Paul is saying [00:31:00] listen as a community of believers as a family y'all got to get together and figure out what to do about this Like this is not good.
This is actually, and earlier on, Paul is talking about how sexual sin is the worst of all sins, because it infects the entire body. Uh, he means that on a personal and on a corporate level and infects the entire body. So Paul is saying, listen, this is a problem that is going to have deep roots in you as a community.
And you gotta, you gotta address it. You gotta nip it in the bud. But when you do that, listen to what he says. He says, I will be present with you in spirit. And so will the power of our Lord Jesus. What do you see there that's different than the judgment that most of us normally exercise?
Speaker 7: Probably that Jesus is there.
Speaker 6: The Holy Spirit's there, right? There's a difference in a judgment that's carnal, and that just comes from me, and a judgment that is fueled by the Holy Spirit. Because I think there's a deep conviction there that says, listen, this does not align with God's best for you.
Speaker 7: I'm like, Man, you might end up cutting this out, but I'm [00:32:00] like hearing that Paul is there in spirit.
I'm like, we say that a lot, like, Oh, I'll be there in spirit. And now I'm like, man, I need to do a deep dive of like, what does that mean for Paul to be there in spirit?
Speaker 6: This is not a deep dive. Um, I would, I would encourage anybody who's listening, who does know more about this to feel free to shoot us a message.
But I believe what Paul is saying here is, listen, I'm praying on your behalf. Um, That God would be there with you all as you make this decision. I think it's his way of saying, you know what you've been taught by me. , and so all of that is with you carry that truth with you and stand on that foundation.
And I only say that because of some of the other things that Paul says throughout the rest of first Corinthians, but.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm just like imagining like Paul can't be on a zoom call with this like church meeting that they're having and Nobody can have him on speakerphone on their iPhone. So it's like how is he like participate?
He's there in spirit
Speaker 6: He's still supporting them. Yeah, he's still a part of that process again If anybody has any more on that to say feel free to go for it, but
Speaker 7: [00:33:00] sorry for that little
Speaker 6: no, it's good That's a good question to ask So then he continues verse 5. He says then this is I remember Me and one of my friends had a long conversation about this for a very long time He says then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan dot dot dot I'm gonna let you know it continues on but that sounds harsh
Speaker 7: Yeah
Speaker 6: hand him over to Satan dot dot dot so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and He himself will be saved on the day.
The Lord returns. Well, Paul is saying here's listen. You've got to get rid of this guy If this guy is doing something sinful, that is You Actually hurting the community of believers when he says, give him over to Satan. He doesn't mean you're done with them. Wash your hands with, with him. What he's saying is, is this guy's heart is being hardened.
Give him, let him continue to experience the consequence of his sin. And God, the only one who [00:34:00] saves man, hopefully once this guy hit rock hits rock bottom, God will get involved and he'll actually be restored. So think about this judgment. I compared it earlier, kind of to the canceling thing. Right. I think canceling is the world's version of hand him over to Satan, but it's not with the goal of restoration.
This is what makes Christian judgment different. When we judge, it's not just to say, Oh, I'm done with you. That's it. It's actually to try to restore you and to bring healing into your life. Verse six, you're boasting about this is terrible. Don't you realize that this sin is like a little yeast that spreads to the whole batch of dough.
Get rid of the old yeast by removing this wicked person from among you. Then you will be like a fresh batch of dough made without yeast, which is what you really are. Uh, Christ, our Passover lamb has been sacrificed for us. So what he's talking about here is the idea of holiness, which I think this is the linchpin in the entire conversation.
It's do we want to be holy? [00:35:00] Do we want Jesus to purify us? As individuals and as a community. So yeah, jumping down, this is verse nine. Paul says, when I wrote to you before, so this is the aforementioned letter that he was talking about when I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin, which again, like, where do you, so I'll just throw this out there and this could be a moment for some dialogue about this.
I had, when I was in a church growing up and this is just real time, there's no, don't, I don't need the right answer. I just want to know what you think about this. I was in a church. And there was a woman who was married, had an affair, married the guy that she cheated on her husband with, and the church told her you can't come back.
And their reasoning for that was, is you are living in unrepentance sin. [00:36:00] You had this affair. The biblical thing to do would be to In that relationship and to try to restore things with your husband. As far as I know, there was no sort of abuse or anything like that. There was nothing where it was unsafe or unfit for this woman to be in this relationship.
She just, as far as I know, decided I'm unhappy with this guy. I'm going to go start a new life with somebody else. And the church was like, Hey, we don't think that's a good idea. Well, once she married this guy, they said, we don't want you to come here anymore. What's your, uh, Reaction to that. There's the ick.
We found it.
Speaker 7: You can't record my face.
I Mean There are verses that talk about Anyone who divorces a person other than [00:37:00] for reasons
Speaker 6: of infidelity. Yeah. Yeah
Speaker 7: then You're committing adultery by remarrying So I think
Speaker 6: does this church have the right to tell this person they can't come to church You
Speaker 7: That's where the ick is. That's where
Speaker 6: Here's, uh, go ahead.
Speaker 7: Biblically, from, the biblical precedent is that is sinful. That you have married this person, and you divorced your child. Your ex Because scripture says it that's not me making something up trying to feel better than the other people
Speaker 6: So just to just to backtrack and to follow this logic biblically speaking This person is committing adultery, both in the sense of [00:38:00] physically, you were having relations with someone who's, who was not your husband, but then in the sermon in the Mount way of, if you divorce this person and then you remarried that's adultery.
So both in an eternal sense and in a physical sense, there's adultery happening. This falls under the umbrella of sexual immorality. So if Paul is saying there's someone in your community, who's committing sexual immorality, you should remove them, hand them over to Satan so that they may be restored. I mean, based on that train of thought, again, this is an open conversation.
If there's anybody who's listening to this, who has more insight and is more wise than we are, but just based off of what the scripture is saying, I mean, it seems like not that this, the church can't tell this person you're not saved. That church couldn't have said, you're not a Christian, you're not allowed to go to any churches, whatever.
I do think that church has a [00:39:00] responsibility as a governing body to be able to say, hey, we're not gonna allow this in our community based on our interpretation of the scriptures. I think that's a fair thing to say because that pastor of that church, the leader of that church, they're gonna be accountable to God one day.
You know what I mean? And so as a shepherd of a flock, I don't know if a pastor is allowed to say, I'm going to allow the sheep who keeps, who's doing something to hurt the flock to remain a part of the flock. So, I mean, again, we're taking biblical concepts and we're putting faces on it and it does, it gets icky.
It gets gross, but we have to remember, what did I say the linchpin of this whole thing was?
Speaker 7: Holiness.
Speaker 6: If it's, we're committed to living the way that Jesus called us to live, So far in this conversation, we've been talking about this in a very corporate sense. What do we allow into our churches or not? [00:40:00] We need to recognize the individualism in this as well.
That there is something in me that needs to be purified by God. And I need to not allow any room for compromise in that. So, yeah man.
Speaker 7: Where my hesitation comes from, the church saying you can't go here, Uh, is The ultimate goal is restoration and for these three people, well, the first person, I think he's chilling.
He didn't do anything wrong, right? I don't, yeah. Um, so the two that are now married, um, to still be in pursuit of holiness and It feels, again, these are my feelings, heart's deceptive, and I would need to dive more into what scripture says about it. But for a church to say, you can't go here, how are we helping them [00:41:00] pursue holiness?
So this
Speaker 6: is something that I would want to figure out. I would want to know what did the path to that look like? Were there conversations where they were like, listen, this isn't good for you. You shouldn't be with this person. You shouldn't continue to act this out because biblically what you're doing is sin.
And if she said, nah, I'm going to do it anyway, but I still want to come here every Sunday. I mean, I think they have grounds to do that. Let me continue reading because I think we're going to get some more clarity as we continue reading. Okay. So when I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin, but I wasn't talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin or greedy or cheat people or worship idols.
You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. So I love that he even puts that in there. He's like, listen, like people who aren't Christians that we can't judge them by the same metric. So we don't judge them. That's what he's saying. You actually don't have the right to judge people who are outside of the church because you have been changed by the renewing of your mind.
So you don't even, you don't even play by the same rules as everybody else. [00:42:00] So Paul acknowledges that. Um, he says, verse 11, he brings some clarity. I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin. Or is greedy or worships idols or is abusive or is a drunkard or cheats people.
He says, don't even eat with such people. And then this is where that line comes in. It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. God will judge those on the outside. Only God can judge me. So I guess if you're not a Christian and you say only God can judge me, you probably, you actually, that is a true statement, but as the scriptures say, you must remove this evil person from among you in that verse, that as the scripture say is in reference to Deuteronomy 17, um, when God is giving the people of Israel, these rules for holiness, um, where he says, Hey, listen, this is how you as a nation are supposed to be set apart.
So [00:43:00] yes. The difference in this scenario is this is not a person off the street, right? So for example, if somebody off the street comes into a church and I don't know, man, let's say they're doing the same thing. Let's say they show up and it's them and their girlfriend. And you find out the girlfriend is separated from her husband, but now these two people are dating.
And so they come into church and neither of them know God. Neither of them know the error of their ways. None of that. Yeah. That person come back. We'll see you next Sunday. As we try to reveal truth to you, as we try to help you have an encounter with Jesus and to meet Jesus. Um, and then it's the Holy Spirit's role to convict in that.
But if you say, Hey, I want to be a Christian. What you're saying is I'm committing myself to following Jesus and to an accountability of the people around me for the purpose of my sanctification of me being [00:44:00] transformed into the likeness and the image of Jesus. If that's the case, we don't have the right to change the rules.
You know, you can't say, Oh, well, yeah, I'm going to come and be a part of the church, but I'm going to do my own thing. It's like, no, when you signed up for following Jesus, you signed yourself up to allowing other people to contribute to your holiness, to judge you, which I think in our language, a more accurate interpretation or a more, more accurate word picture would be accountable where you're allowing us to hold you accountable The biblical way of saying that is, is you allow us to judge you, but to make informed decisions because we know you, we have a relationship with you, we know your life, we know what the Bible says, not in this, we're better than you sense, it's in the, man, we're just trying to keep each other on a straight and narrow.
Speaker 7: I've had this log in my eye before. And I've had that experience and [00:45:00] I've had that encounter with God to remove that. And now I see that speck and in my brain, like that speck can grow. Like that, that log just didn't get lodged into my eyes. I'm doing the thing I
Speaker 6: said I didn't like. That's so good. Yeah.
Wow. You have
Speaker 7: to deal with it later when you're editing. Um, that log didn't just get lodged there. I imagine it started as a speck and it grew and I allowed myself to get into the predicament where there is a log and I've had my encounter with God and I've removed that log by the grace of God, but I see a speck and I'm like, man, I remember when it was a speck in my eye and it grew and wanting, wanting what's best.
I mean, yeah, that's like the heart, right? Like that, um, that judgment can be good when you have the right heart behind it.
You can clip that and put it on [00:46:00] social media.
I mean, what's the purpose of judging somebody just to say, Hey, you're doing that wrong.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 7: There's no benefit.
Speaker 6: Yeah. It's, it's almost more of a coaching. Like a bad coach is like, dude, you suck.
Speaker 7: Okay. Well help me get better. Yeah. But a good
Speaker 6: coach says, Hey, you're doing this wrong, but can I, can I show you, Hey, when you take this shot, you need to tuck your elbow in.
Or when you come off the line, you need to, You know what I mean? Like a good coach is not just there to chastise, but to correct. And that's what biblical judgment looks like. So one more time, I do want to look at this verse that we looked at in last week's episode. This is Galatians chapter 6, uh, starting in verse 1.
It says, Dear brothers and sisters, if another believer is overcome by some sin, you who are godly should gently and humbly help that [00:47:00] person back onto the right path. And be careful not to fall into the same temptation yourself. So this even ties in with what you were just talking about with the logs and the eyes and all this other stuff, share each other's burdens, and in this way, obey the law of Christ.
That's what true biblical judgment looks like. Hey, I noticed this in you. I know it's not good for you. You need to do better, but I want to help you get better. And so I'm going to gently and humbly, uh, um, walk alongside you through this thing. You know, it's so funny that verse, uh, verse two says share one another's burdens that always gets like misinterpreted as.
Sign up for somebody's meal train or like if you see somebody with a flat tire like help them out Yeah, all of those things are true, right? We are supposed to help one another that way but when he's talking about carrying one another's burdens He talked about the burden of sin Like when someone is afflicted by sin, it doesn't just hurt them It [00:48:00] actually becomes your deal to it becomes your problem as well And so biblical judgment in that sense is I see what you're going through I want to help you carry that load and help you get rid of that load You And I do that by helping to bring you to the feet of Jesus.
Speaker 7: So the question you posed to me at the beginning was, is the church judgmental? And I couldn't find myself answering yes or no. Um, I think if people [00:49:00] outside of the church find people in the church judgmental, then We're doing something wrong, um, because we're not called to judge people who are not followers of Jesus.
We're not called to judge the world, we're called to judge within our Christian community. So, I think the world sees us living by our convictions. And then makes the assumption that we're judgmental. We, we have the things that we're called to believe, the truths that we live by, and that has come across as judgmental.
And that's why I couldn't get to that like, yes or no. No, that's good. Yeah, we like, we live under conviction and to the outside world. That can look like judgmental. I believe this. You don't believe the same thing as [00:50:00] me. So then the person who doesn't believe the same thing is like, well, they must think that I'm wrong or I'm, I'm bad or whatever.
Um, and yeah, that's just like, that's that tough place of living by conviction, but not coming across as, Judgmental of someone who isn't even being held accountable doesn't
Speaker 6: play by the same rule book. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's really good That's really good. I think at the end of the day this ultimately boils down to the idea of oh, you said it I forgot exactly how you said it, but you said Judgment can be a good thing if your heart's in the right place I think that's what you said That's what it comes down to if your goal is to see someone restored and you do it in a biblical way where you're actually First, so let's just look at it.
These are practical applications that come directly from scripture. The first, run to Jesus and let him deal with the log in your eye. That's [00:51:00] the first thing.
Second, when you are restoring someone, do it gently and humbly. Three, carry that burden with them. This is not a you problem to be fixed. This is actually an us problem, because we're family. And we gotta walk through this together, and we gotta try to find healing. On this pathway together. I think that's really good.
Yeah. So ask yourself, judge yourself. That's the practical application. Judge yourself and ask when I make decisions about other people, and when I make, um, judgments about other people is the goal that I want to see them restored and walking rightly with the Lord.
Or do I just tell them, Hey, you're doing this wrong because it makes me feel better about myself.
And on that note, that's another week. It feels like a heavy place to leave it. But, um, Man, I think that's just the way that this is. It's not cut and dry. I don't think it's supposed to feel not burdensome. I think there's supposed to be a little bit of weight to it and I'm okay with that. That's probably the way we're going to have to leave this conversation [00:52:00] off, but can keep the conversation going.
Uh, find us on social media and let us know, what do you think about this? How do you process this? Um, have you yourself found yourself being judgmental at times of others? Uh, do you, do you know how to exercise biblical judgment? Do you know like what that looks like? Um, what does this look like inside of your church community?
What would you, or rather, what would your church have done in the situation of the woman that had been divorced that we talked about earlier? Let us know. Um, go ahead and send us an email at true discipleship com. You can find us on Instagram at true discipleship podcast. And, uh, yeah, let's just be in prayer for good judgment.
Good spiritual biblical judgment..
We love you guys. I'm Aaron. I'm
Speaker 7: Morgan. We'll
Speaker 6: see you next week. [00:53:00]