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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of parenting in youth sports in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
Unbelievable.
Summer vacation is here.
Time to recap.
This is our last recap.
We did The Maze, we did The Cost, we did
The Player, now we're doing The Long Game.
I'll tell you, your marketing
team, Matt, is doing a great
job with all these titles.
Matt: My marketing team of, of minus one.
th-th-this is the episode that brings
the whole show back to the kid, to the
player, because after all the systems,
fees, pathways, rankings, training
models, and ambitions, there's still
a child at the center of it all, and
I'm not talking about you, Liron.
Liron: right, that's never gonna change.
look, when we started, we were
asking very simple questions, right?
how does youth soccer work in America?
What should parents know and do?
And who can help them not to
get lost, meaning, i.e., us
Matt: But after a year of
conversations, a year, the deeper
question became harder to avoid.
What are we really chasing?
A better team, a scholarship, a pro
contract, discipline and, and life
lessons, confidence, joy, or a child
who still really loves the game at 18?
Or is it possible to
chase all those things?
Liron: Yeah, so this, uh, first
soundbite is when we really
started upping our games.
We started getting PhDs in here.
we have child psychologists,
. Dr. Jonathan Jenkins:.
and we chose it because it is the, uh,
moment for every youth soccer parent,
that moment where you're afraid of, you
know that's coming, where your kid says,
"Hey, Pops, I don't wanna do this anymore
Matt: Jonathan does not tell
parents to panic or to argue.
He just suggests that we pause, ask why.
Do not put your adult emotions
on top of the child's moment
Jonathan: A lot of parents would
react to the, I don't wanna do this.
And that would bring up the emotions
for them, how much time I spend driving
you there, how much money it costs,
the threat of soccer being eventually
over, but whatever emotions that came
up related to that, you were able to
put them on pause, quiet them down
a little bit, and you leaned into
your son and said, okay, tell me why.
And when you open and allow that
openness for the why, not only does
your son then hear that, files it
away in his, you know, brain and
says, okay, when I'm in a stressful
situation, dad's gonna hear me out.
and that's gonna be applicable
for, there's the party and
there's beer at the party.
There's the, I can't drive home tonight.
Um, I'm trying to figure
out which job to pick.
When you ask that, why, then you get to
understand their thinking, their logic.
You can file that away as a parent.
My son usually gets stressed out about
social things or about appearance
or about challenge, and so that you
can push them given that knowledge.
But a lot of parents would hear that, no.
And they would start this combative
argument about trying to get
their kid back into the sport.
And I think, like Kim was saying, you
know, it's great to build resistance
and it's also great to recognize
when a relationship is over and that
it's time to cut bait and that there
are other opportunities out there
that might serve you better versus
banging your head up against the wall
thinking that something's gonna work.
Or on the flip side of it, quitting
something entirely without exploring
the options that are already out there.
But I, and I joke with people all the
time, I'm a trained child psychologist.
When I was working with kids,
before I had kids, I was like,
kids, these parents don't know what
the heck they're talking about.
Then I become a parent and I'm like,
parent, these kids don't know the
heck what they're talking about.
It's so hard.
I Kim me.
We should know best what to do as parents,
and we still get stuck and snagged on
the same things that any parent would who
doesn't have the clinical training as us.
And it was such a humbling experience to
become a parent, to recognize that I fall
in the same traps, the same, um, quicksand
that I've tried to help my parents avoid.
Liron: I'm laughing because, uh, th- this
beats my, uh, my previous system of, "You
good for nothing, you zero. I tell you
after everything I've done for you, you'd
serve me. You're gonna show you…" And
you know, so I- I'm gonna write a book
of that, and it'll be called You Good For
Nothing, and let's see, let's see who,
who tops the, uh, the Amazon bestseller
Matt: Yeah.
it's really hard in those
moments, impossible in many ways.
it does not mean quitting
is always the answer.
It means listening has
to come before solving
Liron: Yeah, man.
I don't know, Matt.
This… Th-th… I'm, I'm joking, but
this clip was, uh, it's not an easy watch.
It's, it's not an easy watch.
Um, so yeah, we talked about, uh, the Farr
family a couple times, and the reason we
thought that story was so interesting,
because it's so outside of everything you
and I have talked about, but it's because
we live in kind of a bubble, right?
But the Don story and the Ryan
story is an American story.
There's the rest of this
country, which we're gonna deal
with in the following season.
So, Don, who's Ryan's dad, he talks
about, this idea of staying focused,
and after the travel, the uncertainty,
the stress, there's still something
very simple to stay focused on
Matt: Yeah, for sure.
Uh, and what an, what an amazing
family and what an incredible story
and, but, but ul- ultimately this
is like watching your kid play.
We chose this because the show
can not only be a critique, there
is a real beauty in this too, and
we all do get so much enjoyment
from just watching these kids play
Liron: Here it is Man, the, the, the
clips I picked today are, are, are,
Don: So we've sort of enjoyed the
journey, whatever the journey is.
You know, I think there's
nothing as great as watching
your kid play any sport, right?
I'd much rather watch my son
or daughter, play a sport than,
a professional athlete, right?
And when you see them perform on the
field, there's nothing like it, right?
Ryan's got this fantastic photo with
his mother after the Hofstra goal, that
he gave her for Mother's Day, and it's,
it's just a special moment, right?
and that journey sometimes,
though, is, quite tough.
I think I mentioned, my oldest
had an injury that really
set him back his senior year.
you do have those moments, right?
When you're like, "Why…" are
we doing this?" 'Cause it doesn't
always work the way you want.
But ultimately, we get so much joy
out of watching them, right, play.
And it's, I really, I think for US
parents, like soccer parents, you just
have to have, a lot of openness to sort
of go with the flow because you just
don't know what's gonna happen, right?
I think we had a great athlete with
Ryan who, had a ton of accolades
in high school, but his journey to
Division I soccer wasn't easy, right?
And there was a lot of
sacrifice and challenges.
I had another son who said, "Hey, I
don't wanna really do that college thing.
I wanna go to Penn State and, just
be a student." That was actually
a relief because then you're not
worried about, the angst of trying
to figure out where they're gonna go.
And the other thing is so often when
you do play a sport, it really dictates
where you end up going to college, right?
Because you have to kinda combine
where they're wanted at the same
time with the academics and the
other f- you know, elements.
And it's so much easier when it's, it's
just where academically do they wanna
go, and where do they get in, right?
Liron: Here it is Man, the, the, the
clips I picked today are, are, are,
uh, definitely not a reflection of me.
He says it in such kind of a
calm, simple way, but it's true.
We love seeing our kids play.
I think really it's true that, that,
that nothing beats this , but also
maybe that's part of the problem, too.
Maybe we love it too much
Matt: Yeah, it could be.
I don't know if there's such a thing.
I mean, li- life hopefully is long
and we're privileged to live it, and
the period of time where we actually
get to watch our kids be kids and to
play is short on a relative scale.
So I think enjoying those
moments, there's, uh, there's,
there's nothing like it
Liron: Then your kid
starts to grow up, right?
And it's not just a bunch of
little kids running around, and
the pressure grows with that.
Not, and this time it's not coming from
us, it's coming from their environment.
Their expectation grows, not
coming from us, coming from them
now, coming from the environment.
Becomes more realistic.
It's not just about running after a ball.
It becomes an identity, man.
Opportunity, stress, comparison.
God, what we did to those kids
Matt: Yeah.
Well, Talia Sommer brings the player
voice, and what an incredible voice
and what an incredible journey.
She talks about playing freely, making
mistakes, and not carrying every
adult expectation into the match
Liron: Yeah, and, uh, the reason we chose
this was because sometimes the best way
to understand the long game is to hear
a player describe what it is and what
freedom is all about wow, I don't know how
I'm gonna get out of this episode, man.
Talia: I think that having soccer
be a place where I was just free to
express myself and enjoy it without the
pressure of my parents paid $200 for
this guy to train me three times a week.
And turning it into something that
really If you have the right basis,
sure, an extra thousand touches
a week can make you a bit better.
But I think that the, the um, mental
gain that it gives you to just play
freely is so much more than that one,
those extra 1000 touches than what those
those extra practices can give you.
Especially at that age.
I think when I was 15 I was
okay, I need to get stronger.
I'm, I'm a scrawny little kid and I get
pushed around I need to get stronger.
So it's about getting stronger.
at that point I was oh, I know that
I need to work on my turns this way.
So I'd stay after practice
a couple minutes and do it.
Or I'd, I'd, I'd start going out
to the field by myself a lot more.
And I think, but I think throughout my
entire career, my biggest differentiating
factor, um, other than I think there
is at the end of the day, talent
so that you just have or you don't
have, but also was my mental side.
I think a player can be really good,
a really good technical and tactical
player, but if they're mentally not
there and just not ready to, to compete,
to make mistakes, to, to, to be better
after those mistakes, to believe in
yourself, then it doesn't matter how
many extra training sessions you have
it's gonna be hard to be a great player.
So in high school is when I
really started to work alone
and do extra stuff by myself.
And I also had a, um, one of my coaches
was also would do personal sessions on me.
Um, but it was once a week probably.
I did a lot of sessions with boys.
I will say I would train once a
week with boys as well in addition
to my uh, training with the team.
And then, um, in college I did a
lot of extra training with my coach.
He would just do 30 minutes sessions,
probably once or twice a week.
And I would swim, do extra
physical sessions that just help
my fitness and, and stuff that.
But really just keep as low
pressure as possible on soccer.
freedom is all about wow, I don't know how
I'm gonna get out of this episode, man.
Um, t- look, Talia puts it in our face.
It's how much we ask these kids to carry.
Hey, uh, Lavie, be confident,
but, uh, not arrogant.
Make mistakes, uh, but not too many.
Oh, play free, but listen, you gotta win.
Develop, but, uh, you
gotta perform right now
Matt: Yeah.
And when the system rewards
early certainty, late growth
can start to look like failure.
Ryan Farr gives us a different timeline
Liron: because it has that split
between the parent and the child, and
Ryan's path was not a straight line.
multi-sport, which we talked about in
the beginning, when do we specialize?
And all of a sudden Ryan comes
in like, "Well, I started
specializing in real time."
And it's like, well, how is that?
That's too late.
it- so imperfect, and that's why
I think we chose this to give
some breathing room for all of our
listeners and to ourselves as well
Ryan: say early on I played baseball,
soccer, basketball, and golf.
So I was a four-sport athlete for a
while growing up, and then I dropped
baseball 'cause it wasn't-- it was a
little boring for me at least personally.
And then soccer and basketball were
kind of the two main ones I would
play and it was difficult because
oftentimes I played soccer in the fall
and the spring and then basketball in
the winter, so during each season I
wouldn't really play the other sport.
So I was constantly kinda losing it
and then getting it back and then it
was difficult to kind of stay on top
of the game when you're constantly
switching sports and switching seasons.
So I'd say probably 11th grade I started
to take soccer, like pretty seriously when
recruiting was kind of a thing and sending
out emails and showcases and stuff, but I
was still playing basketball at the time.
And then as senior year progressed, I
kinda had to either make a decision or
play both, and being only five-eleven
as a point guard, I couldn't really…
D1 basketball wasn't an option, so I was
kind of debating maybe D3 and to do both.
But playing soccer and, you know,
seeing my level, I wanted to see if
I could take it to the higher level.
So, prep school seemed like a
good option to get more exposure.
And that's kind of when I really
truly fell in love with it, was not
really till like almost a year ago.
So, before that I, loved the sport, but
it wasn't like in the winter I wasn't
touching a ball for maybe three months,
Matt: Ryan's clip is a reminder
that players are not spreadsheets.
The system loves early labels,
loves labels throughout.
Ahead, behind, prospect, not a
prospect, high ceiling, low ceiling.
But kids develop in human time,
Liron: Yeah,
Matt: often develop when
they need confidence the most
Liron: Yeah, I mean, but confidence from
us, like, I think, I think part of it
is maybe us not understanding also how,
what the potential for development is,
because I can't even imagine at Ryan's
high school age or Lavie where he is
now, having Lavie play multiple sports.
Not because I don't… But I
just, I, I don't think I could
sustain that or even understand it
Matt: Yeah.
Well, and I mean, Ryan is clearly
an exceptional, exceptional athlete.
Liron: that helps.
Matt: it-- that, that, that helps a lot.
but he-- but, you know, I mean, maybe
he, he would not have been the soccer
player he is and is turning into without
having the, the, the, the ability to
play those other sports and to experience
it and to build relationships and the
trials and errors of, of all of it
Liron: Yeah.
And in the, spirit of the long s- the
long, standing series of guests that
make us feel like shit and guilty,
Andrew May, who we talked about before,
takes us back to very simple things.
One foundation, enjoyment
Matt: We chose this clip for the end
of the series, not the beginning.
At the beginning, enjoyment
can sound obvious.
After the maze, the cost, and the player
development debate, it sounds like wisdom
Andrew: So 9 and 10-year-old they're going
out, they're playing, they're having fun.
So that's first and foremost,
I need to check and make sure
that they're enjoying it.
And, then they're learning.
So now, I need to challenge the player.
Where does the player see themselves?
maybe your, not blessed with speed
or your first touch needs drastic
improvement, and the child thinks
that I should be able to get to here
super fast, and every time that child.
Is discovering that they're struggling
and they're not scoring the goals,
doing the bicycle kicks, sitting on the
bench, not enjoying, they're not gaining
confidence, they're not cultivating
any self-worth with what they're doing.
They're done.
So it, placement and timing is crucial.
I would say that it's the duty
of the clubs to have those real
conversations with the parents
and say, Hey, this child is doing
something remarkable at this age group.
We're going to look to challenge 'em here.
Your child is, struggling in these
little areas and there's an opportunity
for them to gain so much more with
this coach who, is a better teacher
for that learning style, et cetera,
and that's what I would do there.
Setting goals would be more like game day,
not, you said nine and 10-year-old, how
many players are you gonna beat today?
Like off the dribble or that cool
move you were doing, uh, at practice,
I wanna see that at least come out.
Try it.
If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
So already I'm taking that anxiety,
hopefully I'm taking that anxiety away.
And you know what, if
you mess up, that's okay.
I just wanna see.
I just wanna see you try it.
as you start to get older.
and now I'll be like, a little bit weird
with the words, but like goal setting,
it's more about growth setting, right?
it's more about just letting
'em know to get better.
How do you get better every day?
I'm sure you know, you guys
have talked about like IDPs
these individual development
plans and, and stuff like that.
And within those are, are those goal
settings, but it's basically just how do
we improve, the things you do really well.
Liron: Hey, Matt, do you
know what I just remembered?
soccer's fun.
Matt: Yeah
Liron: Yeah, you know, I, I think
a lot of us kind of remember that
somewhere in the back of our head,
but then, the system starts to slowly
take over the, the whole thing.
Matt: How does that happen though, right?
I think back about this all the time when
Miles first started playing, and w- and
not to say that it isn't fun, but like
why does it become stressful so early?
And maybe it's just us.
Are we the only ones?
Liron: I, I don't know.
I, I…
Matt: I d- I don't get it.
Like I, I really, I think about
how ridiculous it is, and it
make-- it literally makes no sense.
Liron: I saw you on Monday when, I think
it was Monday, when we watched the U.S.
game together, and we actually had a few
dads from the kids' early days, and one
of them came to me and said… And, and
he said it, "Don't, don't…" He says,
"My life is good now," and whatever, "but
when I look back, this was the best days.
And it was the best days because
it was the best days for the kids,
and it was the best days for us."
And I think that's 'cause everybody
was just having a good time.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Liron: Yeah.
Matt: Yeah.
Before we tried to start
trying to figure it all out.
Liron: Yeah, or start a podcast
Matt: let, letting
itself figure out, right?
Liron: Yeah.
So, uh, you know, back to Peguy,
Luindula, and we, we love this episode,
So he has a kid who's playing soccer now,
and this is a favorite moment for me of
the year because it's about love, right?
If my kid is happy, he can be
a taxi driver, I'm fine with
that, and it's just so, so clear
Matt: Yeah, and I got to see Peguy at the
France game, except I was standing in the
stands and he was walking on the pitch.
With, with,
Liron: Having a good time.
Matt: having a great time.
So, amazing.
We, we, we chose this clip because it
puts the child's life above the sport.
That is not an anti-ambition.
It's the only healthy foundation
for ambition Th-th-that clip
Liron: I
Peguy: I want it, I want him to be happy.
I don't necessarily want
him to be a football player.
I don't really care to, to be quite
honest, because from my position, I know
that you can enjoy football with at, at
multiple level and in multiple areas.
He doesn't know that because he's a kid.
He just see all the smoke and mirrors
that, that you see when you, you watch tv.
So he wants to go towards that.
it's difficult because, um,
obviously he doesn't have the talent
that I had, uh, at a young age.
Um, again, there's some stuff that he
can do, but it's, it's the same thing.
He, he will have to work, you
will have to understand that
he's gonna have to work hard.
And even if he was like crazy
talented, nothing is given.
It's not because you, you, you
freaking talented at 13, 14,
15, that you're gonna make it.
Like 90, 99.9% of the kids that
were like crazy talented with me.
I'm 14, 15, 0 0.
I'm the only one.
and I'm the kid who wanted to stop.
It's the only healthy foundation
for ambition Th-th-that clip
almost closes the whole series.
The sport cannot become more
important than the child.
And I think Peguy also talked about
how there's so many different ways
to love this game, and there's
so many different ways, so many
different things to get out of it.
Our, our focus tends to
be so narrow at times
Liron: Yeah.
Uh, but, but, but we didn't wanna
end the season by having all of our,
uh, listeners leave us and go, "What
the heck happened to these two?" This
is, this, this sentimental, uh, mush.
Uh, so, we are gonna g- you
know, bring it back to this
idea of not letting go, right?
We believe in the game.
We love the game.
We believe in youth soccer.
We believe in those kids, and
there's extraordinary potential here
Matt: David Rodriguez from Footy Access.
What a, what a-- Like what another
special, special human in what
David is doing and thinking about.
He, he gives us the forward note.
He has spent real time thinking about
access, exposure, and opportunity,
and this clip points ahead
Liron: Yeah, and this is
the final soundbite for this
season of Chasing the Game.
because it's not about giving up
on the American youth soccer dream.
It's just we're trying to help
it s- all of you and us see
it a little bit more clearly
David: it's still not a
mainstream sport here, right?
It's, it's growing.
We all know that.
But it's still not a mainstream sport.
There still hasn't been, let's say,
a huge influx of development that has
completely changed our national team
or has completely changed the whole
entire organization and, and scope
of what the United States market is.
There's still so much untapped potential,
and that's what excites me of, there's
so much still left to be developed in the
United States as it relates to soccer.
So I think it's just starting off, and
I'm just glad that Footy Access started
when it did, because we're now in a
position of we have a voice, and we're
able to then use that voice surrounding
the FIFA World Cup, different youth
events, different tournaments, and
even looking forward to LA 2028, right?
The roster of the United States is gonna
be the 23 and under, so there's gonna be
a lot of young players within that squad.
So I think we're hitting the
market at the perfect time, but
there's so much room to still grow.
So that's what really excites me, is being
along in that journey and hopefully that
Footy Access has that influence to, to
help it grow as well, continue to grow
We did a good job on
this, I gotta tell you.
Matt: You, you, you, you
did a good job on this.
Let's, let's b- let's be very honest.
At some point, we have to be even
more honest with our audience.
For, for the amount of work and thought
and care that you put into bringing
all these insights to our audience.
So I-- Before we close out, I actually
just really wanted to thank you because,
you're so invested in, in trying
to bring the right light to this,
and help people try to navigate it.
So without you, it doesn't happen
Liron: Oh, thank you, man.
I f- I feel the same, and, but
this is the, the long game, right?
This is the end of the summer
series and the start of our next
Matt: Four episodes: The Maze, The
Cost, The Player, and The Long Game
Liron: Yeah, when we started
the show, we were trying to
understand what a system is.
but it became so much more personal.
We definitely don't have all
the answers, but it's clear,
maybe less innocent, right?
Less naive, and I hope a lot more helpful
Matt: Yeah, that, that is what stood
out for me personally this year.
The best people we talked to
were not necessarily cynical.
They were honest.
They could talk about costs, bad
incentives, false progress, pressure,
and still believe the game is very
much worth fighting for, and the
lessons learned and the relationship
built us into, something phenomenal
Liron: Yeah, and, at this note,
we're gonna take a summer break.
We'll be back late August, ready for
fall, pumped up, new season, same mission,
better questions, better… I mean, I'm
looking at some of the guests that we're,
we're gonna try to get, uh, next season.
I- it's gonna be, it's epic stuff, and
we have Europe, we have MLS again, we
have possibly US Soccer Commission.
I mean, it is big.
So it's big.
Matt, have a great summer, man.
This was an incredible time
Matt: Likewise.
Talk soon