Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
We interview sustainability leaders across industries to learn what they are working on and how they are steering their companies toward a climate-friendly world.
Intro/Outro - 00:00:10:
Welcome to Open Source Sustainability. On this show, Alex Lassiter, CEO of GreenPlaces, talks with sustainability leaders to learn how companies are adapting their business models to be in line with sustainability goals. We believe sustainability has to be open source to be successful, and these leaders have offered us a glimpse inside their strategies and the hopes that we can all move forward together. We are fascinated by some of the unique challenges these sustainability leaders face and are excited to dive deeper. In this episode, Alex is talking with Emily Kane Miller, a regulatory lawyer and the founder of Ethos Giving. Emily shares her journey from a legal background to championing businesses as forces for good. Exploring the evolution of corporate social responsibility since the 1940s, Emily discusses the motivations behind embracing CSR, from tax advantages to establishing positive images during the Cold War era, and emphasizes the shift from a compliance mindset to an impact. She also talks about the impact mindset, urging businesses to adopt a holistic approach that aligns with their values. Get ready to explore CSR's history and its potential to shape a more sustainable future.
Alex - 00:01:23:
All right, Emily, welcome to the podcast. We are so excited to have you very excited for this conversation. I've been trying to schedule it for a long time. So thank you for taking the time to chat today.
Emily - 00:01:33:
Excited to be here.
Alex - 00:01:35:
So I guess just to start off, maybe tell us a little bit about yourself and tell us about Ethos Giving.
Emily - 00:01:41:
Great. So, you know, I. I'm a regulatory lawyer by training. So, you know, I joke that in law school, I couldn't spell philanthropy, CSR. And I had the chance early in my career to join the ground floor of what became one of the most impactful community efforts in California and learned a tremendous amount about how businesses can flex as a force for good, not just with philanthropy, but with the entirety of their organization. And really fell in love with it, became an evangelist of this kind of work. And fast forward, have my own firm called Ethos Giving that helps to now do this for businesses and families.
Alex - 00:02:16:
So, you know, it's funny, like even in the terminologies that you were mentioning, you know, CSR and now ESG and philanthropy and giving and impact. Like, can you talk to us a little bit about the evolution of this? Because you've been doing this well before, you know, for example, it was called ESG and we're talking about stock regulations or anything like that. Talk to us about where does this come from? Like, is it related to all of these things? Is it an evolution? I would love to hear kind of as you've seen this evolve in businesses, how do we get here?
Emily - 00:02:49:
Well, it's a great question. And, you know, not surprisingly, Alex, I've nerded out on this and gone into the history of, you know, where all this work started. So just to take us back to the 1940s, there was an economist called Howard Bowen, and he put together this theory that was about the professional responsibilities of the businessman. And obviously we wouldn't say businessman today, we'd say, you know, business person, but we'll, we'll forgive him because he was doing it at a time where that was the term. So, you know, in that core piece of work, he really established what it looked like for businesses to be a force for good and how it needed to be embedded into, you know, the business model, how you treated your people, how your board was educated, what sort of oversight they were having, what your leadership needed to do, and, and, and. And unfortunately, people took the term corporate social responsibility, but they didn't take the scaffolding and all of the work that he recommended to actually make it true. And so from the 19, you know, 50s on, what we really had was this thing that has ebbed and flowed, people have brought in sustainability efforts, you know, in the 1990s, it was about human rights and really thinking differently about how we process goods overseas. And different things have kind of become part of the zeitgeist of quote, unquote, CSR over time. But what we really never got was an embedded infrastructure, where everybody could point to it and say, this is what this work looks like, right? Like, if you're a lawyer, you go to law school, you take the bar. And you go do a job that even if it's different at different corporations has some through point. Not so with CSR. It looks very different depending on where you sit. And I think what we're seeing now, 60, 70 years later, is a formalization of the structuring of this work that has really kind of grown organically across regions and across different kinds of business models. And I think it's a really good thing, but it's also a moment of very, very clear growing pains for the ecosystem.
Alex - 00:04:47:
So, I mean, academically, you're thinking this as like a discipline. I mean, this is like some structure around what corporate good or corporate for impact or CSR, what that actually looks like. I am curious just from the history side of things. What was the impetus for that? Was it, I just think we should be giving back? Was it a corporate guilt? Was it sort of the, I guess, the industries before of building the railroads and we've got to create something that establishes society? Was there an economic benefit? Why did you even do this? Why not leave that to the charities?
Emily - 00:05:25:
It's a great question. So charitable giving was on the rise starting in World War I in the United States. World War II was really the timeline where we solidified our tax models, right? Like, so the IRS, like if you could think about somebody giving money away in 1910. They didn't get it. They just did it. Like there wasn't sort of an underwriting of it. So, you know, we have concretized this idea. Pre-World War II, but really solidifying in the World War II era because we were trying to expedite giving because there was more need, more orphans, more hunger, more hospitalizations, etc. So there was already a change in the American. Kind of zeitgeist around generosity. After World War II, so there's sort of two answers to your question. Number one, people were interested in shifting that from something that was personal and familial to something that could live within corporations, both because it was tax advantageous, but also because it was more. I think part of the nature of how people wanted to spend their time. And then number two, which is just a much more practical reason, after World War II, we were going into the Cold War and American capitalists needed to establish that businesses could be a force for good, that there was a model, an economic model and value to having this capitalistic infrastructure. And as socialism was not only growing internationally, but becoming, you know, more real on the ground in the United States, we needed to have an answer to say, like, this isn't, you know, corporate raiders and greed and like, you know, everybody else is like out in the cold.
Alex - 00:06:57:
Yeah.
Emily - 00:06:58:
This is good. And we do good stuff. And we care about our people. And so, you know, I think there was a little bit of jingoism, but also just practically, leaders wanted that to be true, you want to be able to say to your people, we care, because it's, you know, it's good for business. And it's also, you know, sort of good for the system at this point in time, in the 40s and 50s.
Alex - 00:07:17:
That is interesting. I never made the tie-in between kind of the fight against the corporate capitalist greed as sort of a, hey, no, we're not. Like, look at all the things that we do. It's weird. That also seems very like sort of like Fountainhead in a weird way. Like sort of that, no, no, if we do this stuff, like we do good things, but really formalized and actually doing it. I'd never tied that together. That's really interesting.
Emily - 00:07:41:
That's why we have these podcasts, Alex. Like this is the moment.
Alex - 00:07:44:
This is it. This is where we're bringing it. This is all for me just to learn. This is great.
Emily - 00:07:48:
No, and I literally, you know. I'm not cynical about it. Like the fountainhead reference.
Alex - 00:07:52:
Sure.
Emily - 00:07:53:
I actually really think there were people that had baselines and altruism that saw a lane and an opportunity. I'm sure there's some cabal somewhere maybe, but like mostly I think people were like, oh, like this is true. And we need to formalize it so that we can. A, you know, substantiate that this is real, but B, so that it can grow because it's important.
Alex - 00:08:16:
Well, I mean, I remember when I was leaving college and I was talking to a mentor of mine about what I should go out and do. And I was in college and I had all these great experiences. And I thought, you know, I'm just going to go and just really focus on giving back. I wanted to get into nonprofit. I wanted to just like really devote my life towards something that I felt like really mattered. And I remember that mentor said, look. I understand that. Like go out and do something of yourself and get yourself to a point of influence where you can actually influence more. And if you I know that sounds counterintuitive, but get yourself to the point where you doing things actually has a lot more influence. You will maximize your impact over time. And it drove me in that direction. Obviously, now I've gotten fully into this as you have. It's kind of a full time job. But I believe in that. And I agree, I wouldn't. I don't think about it as cynical at all. I mean, people are good, in my opinion. Most people are just good people. And we work. We do a job. And I think particularly if you're trying to attract really good talent and make people feel fulfilled and you believe that happy people do better work. All of those things can combine into making the business case that doing good and giving is actually really good, truly for business. It can help a business succeed.
Emily - 00:09:36:
And I would take that a step further and say, like, you know, ditto to everything you just shared. And also,at this exact moment in the history of the world. There are. Very complex issues and problems that need industry to be part of the answer. That government and nonprofit. Can't accomplish some of the things that need to be accomplished to fix, address, heal pieces of what's broken today. And so if we don't have business at the table, we actually can't be successful in getting this next, whatever to this next chapter in a more whole healthy way. And then the other thing I'll say, you know, I'm sure with you, a lot of people will reach out and say, hey, I'm 22, I'm just graduating from college. What's your advice? What are your thoughts? I'm speaking to Alex right now.
Alex - 00:10:28:
Yep.
Emily - 00:10:29:
And, you know, one of the first things I say is when I was in school and I'm not that old, but it was, you know, like two decades ago. Right. There was still a model where if you really cared and you had the biggest heart, there was a nonprofit track or a government track, and that's the one you should be on. And if you were agnostic or that was less of a priority, you know, that you went corporate, I don't think that's true today. I think there's a real blend of jobs. And depending on what it is that you want to accomplish, it may be that. Doing that through the business lane is your fastest route, right? Like in a shoots and ladders model, like. Look at what you're doing with GreenPlaces. You probably couldn't affect. You know, the change and create the value that you're creating under any other banner than as a business.
Alex - 00:11:12:
I totally agree. I remember when we started it, I had folks ask me, well, why didn't you make it a nonprofit? And I said, because I need, we need to create something. And to do that, I need to attract the best talent. And to do that, I also have to be able to pay for the best talent. And so it needs to be self-sustaining. It has to support itself to be able to actually make the influence that we want to make. And I think it's sometimes it does feel counterintuitive a little bit. But I think, I don't know, part of me thinks if you're, you know, and this is true for Ethos as well for GreenPlaces. If we're going to businesses and saying you should be more sustainable or you should be better about CSR, isn't it great to be able to point to yourself and say, We did it because otherwise you always have this, well, you're a nonprofit, you know? So of course you can do this. We can't, we're for-profit. And I can say, no, we have a business too, and it works and it does well, and it's growing. And we have all of the same challenges that you do, yet we can do this and we can be a great model for you. So I can now speak from experience as opposed to from like an ivory tower, I think from some examples.
Emily - 00:12:19:
A hundred percent. And, you know, so too, I'm sure as your business grows and you're able to show other use cases. It's not just privately held companies. It's not just, you know, you can be a Fortune 100, you can be publicly traded, you can be multinational, and this is possible. And I know because I've been there, done it, been at the table, and that's like such a great tool in our toolkits.
Alex - 00:12:41:
So we've talked a little bit about there is a framework. And I've read through your materials and seen some of this, but just for the folks that are listening or watching, what is the framework for CSR for impact? Like what is, what is, what are all the levers that we can pull here and how should people be thinking about this stuff?
Emily - 00:13:01:
Awesome question. So, you know, one of the things, this is an evolution from my perspective, right? As we discussed, we're kind of living in the gold rush, as it were, of whatever is going to be the thing that kind of comes out of this. And so I think people really are looking for systems and looking for ways to do good, but have it make sense and have it not completely subsume the business. So I love tools like GreenPlaces and obviously what we're trying to do with Ethos Tracking just to help people get models for what's good. So I love your model. I love our model. But I still, just to say out loud, I don't think there is like anything that is like the perfect fit. But what I will say, and what we, you know, what we do in our work. Is try to shift mindset. So I will. You know, the vast majority of the companies that we've been able to work with and see under the hood around are really trying. And I haven't found a single partner where I'm like, wow, you've got the perfect system. So number one, if you're listening and you're feeling overwhelmed. You're right alongside everybody else in this whole moment. Um. And, you know, in order to sort of make sense of the puzzle, one of the things that we found is that people, uh, are, are doing this work throughout the entire business organization. So there's not like one team that's responsible for good. It's coming out of HR and legal and, you know, Finance. Not to mention philanthropy, sustainability, supply chain, et cetera, et cetera. So number one is kind of getting your house in order and really wrapping your arms around all the ways that good is being accomplished within the organization. Uh, and essentially just doing an audit of like, Hey, what are we doing? That's additive, positive, et cetera. We have a framework for that on our website. Ethostracking.com if you want to check it out, but anybody can kind of take that thinking. And then what you do once you identify kind of all of the places and spaces where this work is happening. Is take a step back, try to identify how to measure and manage that work. And move away from a compliance mindset, which is how most of this work is happening, which is like, how do I not get in trouble? Right. And then move into an impact mindset, which is what are we doing that's valuable? And then we can assign, you know, regulatory requirements. Marks, storytelling, ESG documentation, but rather than have the compliance standards lead, focus on like what value is being driven. And then we can talk about how that thought that files into compliance and really help the business from a growth perspective. So that everyone can be on the same page. You're not double managing data You're not creating room for error and also just room for burnout Right. So that's. Squishy, but that to me is the best way to set the table. And then the other thing I'll say, you know, ESG isn't a panacea. I think people are trying to do the right things, especially publicly traded companies are trying to do the right things to not get fined, right? Like to not get in trouble. Um, But I would be really, really leery of. Creating an entire framework around any one sort of regulatory or compliance model today, because I think they're all going to be changing. Certainly in the next handful of years, like we're going to be living in constant aftershocks. And if you have everything framed around. ESG or SDGs or, you know, wherever your, whatever your thing is. Um, I think it's going to have to. Continue to evolve. And I, you know, I'd hate to see people. Kind of have this work fall down because it's too attached to one model.
Alex - 00:16:38:
Yeah, it's interesting. I think what I'm hearing is the first step is to sort of take an inventory and look inward. Like, what are we doing and where should we be? And what do we want to be? Like, what do we want to be doing? I mean, a lot of this stuff, I think, at least when we have conversations with folks. You can really get lost in acronyms and it can get, it can feel like soulless to some extent, you know, because it's like, I've got to fill this form out and I need to score this level on this thing. And you're just like so separated. To what you're actually doing, that it kind of loses, in my opinion, a lot of the benefit from it. A lot of the benefit of going through these exercises is You find out that employees are really energized by it. You find somebody who may not have been giving their best effort in what they do on a day-to-day suddenly come into work excited about what they're going to be doing. These are the, I always talk about them. In our company, I always talk about holiday party stories because when you're at a holiday party, that's when you hear culture at a business. Nobody sits around the table saying, Did you see our gross margins this year? Like that was awesome. It's the other stuff, right? It's the things that we do for, you know, 90% of our day, like the working hours that we're in. And I think a lot of this stuff is building those holiday party conversations. It's the, we got this across the finish line and it was really cool. Look at the impact that we made. I'm so proud of this thing that I did. Most people at the end of the year, when they stand up and they say their biggest accomplishment, it usually isn't tied to their business, their biggest like, you know, economical business impact. It's usually something else they did, a way they helped a friend, a way that they made a connection that otherwise wouldn't, a way that they, you know, rolled up their sleeves and did something that really made a bigger, broader impact to themselves. And to me, in sort of the way that, you know, you've described it. That's kind of the point and you lose that if all you're focusing on is how do I fill out the survey? You know.
Emily - 00:18:48:
And, you know, as we talked about, you know, a few clicks ago. So many of the people coming to your organization who are focused in this work are doing it because it comes from a place of soul and a place of wanting to be additive. And if you get so far into the regulatory realm, that soul dulls, like it's, it's really deflating. And so I believe, as you believe, that this is a motivator and will help your talent pipeline and, you know, it will grow your investment portfolio and it will support customer acquisition and all those things. But the reason that that's true is because of that shine from the soul piece of this work. And if the soul dies, because this is so process oriented and like totally attached to P&L. Then the work suffers, the community benefit suffers, and also that value proposition decreases because it's less authentic and less, you know, less viable.
Alex - 00:19:44:
Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. And y'all have done, obviously y'all drink your own Kool-Aid. You've done some amazing things in your career prior to this point. And obviously at Ethos Tracking, I'm just curious, what are some big successes that you can recall of some things that you've been able to be a part of, you know, in kind of the world of ESG? Do you have any kind of top of mind that, you know, are good examples of just some things that you're really proud of?
Emily - 00:20:07:
For sure. I'll tell a client story and then an internal win that I think we built out for our team. You know, we've got some really amazing clients and I joke, it's like being a parent. Like I, I don't have favorites, you know, but then there are these moments where some of them just really shine, you know, and you're just super proud. You know, Locally, we work with, I'll say, a sports team, and they're amazing, and we love them. They really care a tremendous amount. And they came to us and said, We've done a lot from an infrastructure build perspective. We've got some incredible relationships. How can we level up? Like, You know, we're. We're getting a passing grade. Like we're doing a good job, but like we wanna do a great job. And I love these kinds of assignments. You know, it's like reporting for duty. Like let's do that, and what we identified was that it's great to have infrastructure. It's great to have sports fields in this example. But if you build it, they may not come. And the whole purpose of these was to service young people in the community and give them the resources that they needed to play and be outdoors. And this was coming out of COVID. So there was a lot of learning loss and social emotional stuff. And as it turns out, we were able to very, very quickly put into Superdrive. Without a tremendous expense, a ton of different programming and scaffolding where we could then put KPIs and metrics on the work to immediately see just, you know, by putting in some simple partnership programs, you know, that included tutoring, that included coaching, that included, you know, some social emotional healing work for these young people. Pretty much overnight, right? Like we saw the usage of these places and spaces grow. We saw the pre-post data of these young people's engagement. Improve their parents feeling more connected to the school people. Again, coming out of COVID, we're really missing that community fabric. That increased by play. And now, you know, two years later. Some of the data is really impressive around, you know, reducing truancy, reducing, increasing learning and, you know, taking major strides in some of these academic goals because you have the sport. That's the, you know, the prize. But first, we're going to all do our homework and we're going to, you know. So, without a tremendous amount, frankly, of funding time or even really creativity, but just kind of being able to like pull back and say like, how can we be additive? We were able to document. And really grow this work. And I think, we often talk about with our clients getting to duh, like that moment we were like, okay, duh, like, of course we should be doing this. Most of the work that we help to create, frankly, is fairly obvious, but it's just, it's creating the space and Just the background, like the expertise to come in and say, hey, like we're seeing this from a different way. You've been doing a great job in this lane. How do we open the aperture and make sure that we're thinking about this more holistically and pulling on all the levers within your organization that can show up right now. Including coaching, including tickets, including swag, not only the capital. And it turns out for most partners, there's a lot of low-hanging fruit. So I love that work and helping people get to that moment of doubt. Know within our own team we've got i think the opportunity and we've really seen this grow recently to do some training because we haven't, as we've talked about, you know, no one can go to school like you do for law school or dentistry or teaching. And so we've been able to, you know, bring on a lot of talent that have gone into corporations and other firms with a totally different toolkit. And one of my proudest moments is seeing our alums come back and say, look at the projects I'm working on now that are part of giant corporations and sort of seeing the Ethos fingerprints on all of this work going out into the world. We've been able to grow our internship pipeline and, you know, just seeing how we can really be a mentor and... And help frame what I hope will be the next generation of, what I believe will be the next generation of leaders in this system has been incredibly formative and walking the walk. So working with partners like GreenPlaces. You know, making sure that we have a robust employee giving program. Ethos gives, you know, our cash, not matching for every employee to be able to deploy to the nonprofits that matter to them, you know. In our own way, you know, we're, we're a boutique small agency, but just kind of showing how we stretch our organization and show up in the world in the way that is values aligned with how we recommend for our clients is a way that we're building that culture. And then obviously the training that we provide to our people so we can do that for our employees, you see it immediately how it goes out into the world and creates a difference in the places where our team grows.
Alex - 00:24:57:
That's amazing. I love the, uh, the phrase, the moment of duh, of how do you basically clear the path so people know what to do? But that to me, that is like. That's built up in this idea that most people want to do it. They just don't know how. You know, you're not creating desire. You're creating a path so that they know what it is they need to, you know, actually accomplish to be able to reach the goals and the outcomes that they want. That's amazing. But I would say on the other side, there's probably a lot of challenges that you run into as you're trying to. Get the wheels moving with somebody. Is there any, what are some common things that you hear from people when, I don't know, maybe you meet somebody who's really excited about this and they want to, they want to kick off and do something really amazing, but you can't get the ball rolling. Like what is, what are some of the early challenges that you expect? Like, are there things that you tell people, this is what to expect. This part's going to be hard, you know, but once you get going, like, I'm just curious, what sort of challenges have you seen in the kind of getting somebody to that moment?
Emily - 00:25:58:
Yeah. So, you know, most of the businesses that we work with are in business to do something that's not this. Right. Like.
Alex - 00:26:04:
Right.
Emily - 00:26:05:
They make stuff. They create products. They, you know, They provide services. One of the things that is, you know, a challenge is just creating. The space for those team members to accomplish kind of the early blocking and tackling the audit work that we discussed and just setting up the systems takes time and muscle. And a big piece of that is making sure that leaders within the organization are ready to help create that space for the right people at the right time. Most often this is a startup effort, right? Like it's, you know, Hey, we're going to. Make sure that Susie can do this. We're going to make sure she's got 15 hours a week for the next three weeks. I'm sure this is true for GreenPlaces too, but you can't help an organization grow if you don't have the framework and the baseline. So it's one thing to say you want to do this and another thing to put FTE time behind making it true. The other thing that we see. You know, as we've talked about, I'm a big believer that this work lives across an entire organization and every business unit in all sorts of places and spaces. It's a lot. More complex, right? I think it's a better framing. I think it's a more true landscape analysis, but it takes more time. And so, you know, part of it is just like, oh man, you want me to peel back the onion on seven departments instead of one department? And not everybody's ready for that. And sometimes. We just won't engage and people will come back or sometimes we'll reduce the scope of a project just to help people get started. But our strong recommendation is that it's worth doing that wide lens work because what you're doing from a supply chain management perspective may be like 10x from a dollar in impact value what you're doing with philanthropy. And it's really important to get that information in, right? And then I would say the third thing, and this is less true today than it was even three or four years ago. People, you know, some leaders, and I think thankfully fewer and fewer, but some leaders. Believe that because something is good, it should be easy, that it falls under like a piece of your brain where you're like, well, it's net positive, so it can't be hard. And so sometimes there is still a disbelief of like, well, but we should just be able to wave a magic wand and just have this be you know, good because it's, it's happy that some of it is our, you know, our work to match make with the right partners to begin with. And then also, you know, do some education around just like any other part of your business, this work takes work. It takes expertise. It takes management and it's worth it. And that's why we're here. I would say there is still some, some preaching and some education that, that needs to come with it today.
Alex - 00:28:38:
When it's something as cross-functional as like CSR, I think, and we run in this a lot too, people a lot of times, I think, want to keep it in its own vertical. It's like sales, marketing, finance. Giving and it's like, okay, like just that one is not a vertical. Like you can't say giving just as giving because it has to be across. Like we see this with sustainability. All of the things that we recommend have implications for finance. They all have implications and opportunities and responsibilities for HR and people operations, for the executive, for the board, for the newest employee that starts. It's like all of it. And having sort of a horizontal function across everything. Does make it really powerful when it works, but it is, we find this too, is you got to get everybody at the table and we all have to understand that we all bear some responsibility in this. If it's treated as a silo, you're going to, it's going to wither out. It won't have enough oxygen to actually get where it needs to, which is hard.
Emily - 00:29:44:
100%. I'm a lawyer by training and spent some time in-house counsel model. And that's really what I try to put this forward as. This is a shared service. And the same way that you couldn't imagine legal living in a corner and having it be effective, this is, you know, the accordioning out of this work is what's going to make it powerful. So I couldn't agree more.
Alex - 00:30:07:
Yeah. Well, I know we've covered a ton today, but I typically like to end with. I'm just curious, like a good question of what is... What is something that you wish? People knew about Ethos that maybe they don't, or maybe, maybe we, maybe we speak more broadly, something that you wish people knew about CSR, you know, an impact that the average person wouldn't.
Emily - 00:30:34:
Yeah, I would say this is a bit of a note that we covered before, but it's worth saying again. Which is that we are Let me back up and say, I'm an optimistic person. I believe that the world that we live in today has challenges, but we are still living in one of the best moments in the history of humankind. And that if we as a generation are smart and thoughtful and additive, we can still deliver to the next generation a world that has the ability to grow and sustain. That can't be done without everybody. It will take government, it will take nonprofit, it will take business, it will take neighbors and societies. And so in every thing that matters to you, whether it's your home, your family, or you know, broadening it to your country or our, you know, global environment, whatever matters to you, this work that you and I have the benefit of being able to, to live in and lead is critical. And so as whether this is your work too, or you're thinking about it as a customer or as a citizen, I would implore everyone to take this seriously and to see it as an opportunity versus something that, you know, is a flashpoint. And, you know, ultimately it's going to take all of us. And the more we can kind of cut through the noise and, and get to duh, and get to the work together, the faster we can start seeing the progress and the value. And it's why we're all here because, because that's why, you know, that's why we're in this. We believe that this value is possible. And it takes all of us.
Alex - 00:32:15:
I love it. And I assume your optimism going forward is as much as it was in the past. Do you feel good about where we're going?
Emily - 00:32:22:
Do and I think one of the reasons that that's happening is because there's more clarity, more engagement. GreenPlaces would have never existed 20 years ago, right? Like you see-
Alex - 00:32:32:
Nope.
Emily - 00:32:33:
We're in the same space and thinking about tech for good and the growth of that. It really is an area where we're seeing tremendous growth. Smart, awesome people are trying to think about how to use their intellectual capital to solve problems and to make their world a better place more than ever before. And so I'm really bullish that a lot of these ideas are going to break through and be good for all of us.
Alex - 00:32:58:
Awesome. Well, Emily, thank you so much for joining today. Sincerely appreciate you taking some time out of your busy day to talk to us about what you're doing, ethostracking.com. And thank you. Really appreciate it. Really appreciate all the work that you're doing. And I'm also sharing that optimism. So thanks for joining today.
Emily - 00:33:14:
Great. Thanks for having me, Alex. This was super fun.
Intro/Outro - 00:33:16:
Thank you, Emily, for joining us. And thank you for listening. If you like this show, be sure to leave a review and follow this podcast wherever you like to listen so you don't miss an episode. This podcast is powered by GreenPlaces. If you are looking to reduce your company's environmental impact and reach your sustainability goals, visit greenplaces.com to learn more. We'll talk with you next time on Open Source Sustainability.