Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Welcome to Movies We Like. Each episode, Andy Nelson and Pete Wright invite a film industry veteran to discuss one of their favorite films. What makes a movie inspirational to a cinematographer or a costume designer? Listen in to hear how these pros watch their favorite films. Part of The Next Reel family of film podcasts.
Andy Nelson
Welcome to Movies We Like, part of the Next Reel family of shows on TruStory FM. I'm Andy Nelson, and that over there is Pete Wright.
Pete Wright
It is confirmed, Pete Wright.
Andy Nelson
On today's show, we have invited production designer Roger Fires to talk about The Exorcist, a movie he likes. Roger is a production designer whose credits span Nobody, Violent Night and the Scrubs reboot, and his latest film, Psycho Killer, just hit digital. Roger, welcome to the show.
Roger Fires
Well, thank you so much, Andy Pete. Like it's so so exciting to be here. Like I'm really happy. I think this is one of one of the ones that I'm really looking forward to.
Pete Wright
Oh, that's really nice to hear, man.
Roger Fires
Yep, absolutely.
Pete Wright
Thank you. We're grateful for your time. For sure.
Andy Nelson
Yeah, we are thrilled. We wanna uh we're definitely gonna be talking about the Exorcist and your projects, but let's start with you and talk about how you got into production design and especially knowing that you kind of had a longer path from like interior design, graphic design that kind of led you to production design.
Roger Fires
Well like I'm originally from Brazil, so I moved to to Vancouver thirteen, almost fourteen years ago. In Brazil, I did a lot of artists, like musical artists, like all the branding and everything else, like Rock in Rio, uh restaurants, like it felt like I was compiling everything to become a production designer. And like hitting even fashion, I dabbed into. So going into all those elements. So like when I reached like I I believed like my professional roof in Brazil was like I need to expand this and and do what I wanted to do, which uh was a I like it being a production designer. So Me and my ex-girlfriend, we decided to leave Brazil and then come to here and then w like because she's in a she was in a or still is actually in a in the medical field, we decide what would be the best path. It's either New York, LA, or Vancouver. And I came here in 2009. And then we saw everything and then her dad said, hey, this is a place to be. Like the the meeting people Uh in your age, talent and everything else, so I I had a friend that I had applied and then I talked to her and we applied Six months later we got the PR and we moved and I kind of started my my journey here. So I didn't want to be the guy that it does like the the whole stigma of stealing uh locals jobs or whatever so I went to a school to learn, pay the taxes, pay the school and everything else to be like I'm uh I'm that guy.
Andy Nelson
Wow.
Roger Fires
But like I always I I don't take a no for answer, but not saying like uh like I know no is no, especially now with this whole thing that is coming out, but it's kind of like we had this guest speaker that it was a graphic designer that back in the day he said like I'm say more yes than no's I mean, I'm gonna say more no's than yeses because there's a lot of people looking for me and then I and then I start coming on this job. And when the the lecture was over, I went after him and was like, hey. How can you say no, but yes, I know this guy here? What is the process in the industry? So he taught me about like the unions, IATSE, and everything else that I didn't know about it. Uh it's a different in Brazil. And he invited me to go to Once Upon a Time, walk through the stage and everything else, the series.
Andy Nelson
Yeah, yeah.
Roger Fires
And and then uh after like you're ready, I saw your portfolio. I had two ways of going, it's either set designer or graphic designer. But I always had more fun doing graphic designer, the Easter eggs, the all the fun things that I could do.
Andy Nelson
Interesting.
Roger Fires
So I went there after this whole chat and talked to him and said, hey. Let me buy you lunch. That's the least I can do for all this walkthrough and I like this guidance. And he goes like, just give me a job in the future. And I was like, what do you mean? And then he goes, like, you're gonna be our production designer way before you think.
Andy Nelson
Wow.
Roger Fires
I was like That's great. On this whole process, one of the reasons I came here, I was asked like who do you bit like see yourself being? Like what is your who's your benchmark? And I said David Wasco, which is Pulp Fiction, Reservoir Dogs, and like Wes Anderson's. And then when I was being a graphic designer already in the industry, I got a A email spent like the one of those uh blast emails. David Wasco's in town shooting Adventures of Max and Banks. And I was like, what is what is that? And and then I talked to my production designer. It was like, I need to go there and talk to this guy. He's like the reason why I do this. So like I put my portf my resume of my portfolio. I got called I went there. He had my resume with post-its and I love this. I love this. And then he ended up hiring me to do Adventures of Max and Banks that it was 50 Shades of Grey. And then from that point on, like David was now became only like a mentor. like a personal friend and he was another person that had saw me as like you should you're gonna be a production design really soon
Andy Nelson
Wow.
Roger Fires
There's uh the two the two like full circles is fifty shades of gray. The reason I'm telling those stories that like Fifty Shades of Grey was where I met David. where I kind of s saw myself learning so much from him and seeing how my path would go. But I always met my wife in the movie. And
Andy Nelson
Okay.
Pete Wright
That's an that's an awesome movie to have met your wife on.
Roger Fires
And yeah, I know. And and then after I started like progress in my career, directing, supervisor director and everything, I was doing a project called Lost in Space, a season two, as a supervisor or director, and I hired Neil Westlake.
Andy Nelson
Okay, yeah
Roger Fires
the guy who gave me the walkthrough on Once Upon a Time as my graphic designer on uh on the show.
Andy Nelson
Yeah.
Pete Wright
Yeah.
Andy Nelson
So you you you went full circle and you brought you did hire him back.
Roger Fires
So I did hire him back. I paid and then uh I told him I was like, hey, that's that lunch
Andy Nelson
Yeah, yeah, right.
Pete Wright
God, and what great looking properties too. Spe Lost in Space was transcendent, man. Just what a good looking
Roger Fires
And it was crazy. Everything every episode was like a uh like a beast. There was no small gag.
Andy Nelson
Yeah. No, it's a lot. There's a lot going on on that show for sure.
Roger Fires
And a lot practical too.
Pete Wright
Yeah
Roger Fires
So uh uh like if there was a lot of uh practical locations, practical gags, like the back of the Jupiter, there's a like an accident that's how it starts.
Andy Nelson
Wow, that's great. Yeah.
Roger Fires
season one we literally peeled the whole full scale back of the Jupiter and put on a on a tank with uh gags and uh it was like crazy it was a really Good and not so good experience. And that's one of the things that I might have asked you to cut. But there's a lot of things that happened there that I got to a point it was like, you know what? Thank you for your time.
Andy Nelson
Yeah, right, right.
Pete Wright
Thank you for time. Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough.
Andy Nelson
My gosh,
Pete Wright
But that gets you into some really in incredible projects as production designer, right? I mean to I am personally deeply interested in scrubs. Just because first of all, it gets you in the Bill Lawrence camp, which can't be a bad place to be to be working, right?
Roger Fires
Yeah. No
Pete Wright
That's not a bad place. But it also puts you in a position of doing something that I think is pretty dramatically unique in these properties right now, which is to take something that was beloved and Rebuild it to make it beloved again, but also the same, but still be able to do more with it. And and I I just would love to hear your thinking uh about how you how you go about recreating Sacred Heart and the the design and leveraging everything that was this incredible show. and make it something that appeals to old fans and new.
Roger Fires
I will be lying if I said that it was not the the biggest challenge that I had. And it got to a point that you go to the stage And then you see just the marks on the floor with the walls about to be up and then I'm s standing on this eighteen thousand square feet warehouse with open door leading to another warehouse and then you think Did I buy too much? So like I I think there's too uh but the d one of the biggest challenges was we talk about a show that aired 25 years ago, the first episode. 25 years ago, all the the communication not only between patients and doctors and staff was way different than also our communication with the world right now. So you have a headache, you control any AI, what should I do? That information d didn't exist back then. So the hospital, when they went to It was almost like a spaceship, let's call it. Because if we didn't have any information of how man uh how the hospitals were the same, how each hospital You could Google like how this hospital look like, how this hospital like you have the reference of your local hospital or the hospitals that you've been is the the the spaceship reference like I don't know how a spaceship looks like. I know how they portrayed spaceships in movies. So you have this freedom. Today everything is so documented. that you have to not only be accurate with the emotion and the feeling that those people had living on that space, not only the fans but also the crew. But you have to bring that to our like modern day how we're gonna interpret uh we're gonna have that transition on like an old hospital that we didn't have a pandemic and then now you you had that affect the whole world. How are you gonna We didn't want to celebrate that, but how are we gonna show that yes, we are aware that that happened? We aware that the relationship now you have to wash your hands, cover your face, don't come to the hospital, those kind of things that That information didn't exist 25 years ago. So we started with that was one of the first things as when I do a uh a movie with a like action, my first question is like especially now is are we doing blanks or are we doing real guns? I mean visual effects because that it's a different
Pete Wright
Because we don't use real real guns.
Roger Fires
With the real guns.
Pete Wright
Let's just make it for the record.
Roger Fires
It's another thing that it's I don't want to talk get into the whole world, but like it's a blank survival facts.
Pete Wright
Yeah.
Roger Fires
With scrubs was the same thing. The first question was like, what we're doing with COVID?
Pete Wright
Yeah.
Roger Fires
Because we had the shoots, we had the masks, we have a like a lot of things that not necessarily it's
Pete Wright
Wow
Roger Fires
It's not like a memory that people wanted to have.
Pete Wright
Yeah. And and yet still what changes the infrastructure of Sacred Heart? Like there would be a legacy of of that to change the the hospital.
Roger Fires
Yeah, like the marks on the floor, the six feet, though those things. So like how we're gonna perceive that?
Pete Wright
Totally
Roger Fires
And the other thing was literally I went down to try to study how the evolution of the hospitals happened within this the spans like one, two, three years, three years to six years. What are like the what did you change? The approach, the the technology. When do you start making renovations? When do you start like changing silly tiles? When do you start like painting walls or changing the lad to real paint? How that evolution happens so you can start like playing with how we're gonna adapt the old hospital without changing the characteristic and the and the DNA that the whole hospital had to something that is gonna be shot now in AK and it is gonna be shown on a totally different TV that you had in 25 years ago that you can see way more and how that those details gonna apply.
Pete Wright
Every detail
Roger Fires
So when that happened, we started like bringing what was the problems that you guys had on the real hospital shooting. It's the dolly at the admissions with the terracotta tile that they're bumping is the elevator coming out with the with the strips of the elevator is the tours like all this the flower shop that it was too small so we couldn't like they couldn't shoot the flower shop so how are we gonna solve those problems of uh getting this ad really open to all the possibilities so we can literally use every single corner of the set and have the coverage that we needed for that pace. That we moved into we have three stories of the the hospital. We have the main floor We have the second floor. We have the third floor in the regional hospital with production, the offices and everything. And we have the fourth floor. How are we gonna transform those ones into a flat space? Because
Pete Wright
You don't have the same building anymore. It's gone.
Roger Fires
I don't have this and then I cannot build a building.
Pete Wright
Yeah.
Roger Fires
And then I I I need to keep the hospital and special scrubs the walk and talk dynamic as it was before
Pete Wright
Right.
Roger Fires
There has a lot of walk and talk, there's a lot of ins and outs, there's a lot of different places in the hospital that they they used that we need to bring that to like a single flat 30,000 square feet space. So I I came up with the idea that the Set Dec first, Lizzi Pedersen, which is like my partner in Art. She's like a brilliant woman. She kind of like for real can we use the old school which is the signage with uh velcro?
Andy Nelson
Oh, okay. Just put it up, yeah.
Roger Fires
So the idea was get all the signage with velcro. And oh first floor, we map it out. First floor animations, cafeteria, this OR. Because it was something that in the research set of cool OR has to be in the first or second floor. Because we don't know what they have. So we can go in the elevator or stuck in the elevator or whatever. So it has to be there. So D O R and then the sec the second floor. There's a specific nurse station. The fourth floor has another specific nurse station. So I had to come up with those elements. So what I did was let's do magnets Because everything is magnet.
Andy Nelson
Okay.
Roger Fires
So we go there, you can literally go into the elevator, press the button, special effects. plays with the floor and then the Set Dec team can go there and you just pop the sign and then you go in and then you have another floor.
Andy Nelson
Pull them off and put new ones on.
Pete Wright
It's such a that's such a crazy trick to w especially because I just
Andy Nelson
It's awesome.
Pete Wright
I feel like a as a victim of that trick, like I'm trying to peel apart the Sacred Heart because I was a huge fan of the original show and I felt like I know that hospital. And what is so beautiful about the way the set works is that I feel like you're just giving me exactly the same thing that I knew as a fan, but more of it. I get more of the gift shop, flower shop. I get different angles that But it still feels bespoke to the original show, and now you're telling me it's all magnets and my entire world is shook.
Roger Fires
Yeah, like I I did a walls up. I was like, I have to time how long This goes. We're gonna go into the entrance. The entrance is another ballpark, but I I went to for the the beginning of the stage three that we call and then we go around every single hallway.
Pete Wright
Yeah
Roger Fires
on a fast pace and just going in timing myself. So this is the Chiefs. This is this. And it was a close to five minutes walk. With me running. So there was like a funny thing too. It's like another thing for the sacred heart was branding. Right, the hospitals they change branded, change communication, the the wayfinder, like everything that you have in a hospital So was one of the things that I kinda I felt that that's when I got Zach like really full 110%. It's like, okay, we have to make some changes. 'Cause he was really adamant to like, oh, I'm so I don't know if we we have changed this here or change that. And then I did, because of my background as a art director in the advertisement agencies, I did a whole I asked my graphic designer to do a whole branding package for the sacred heart, the evolution, the uniform, and
Pete Wright
For the Sacred Heart. It's awesome.
Andy Nelson
The entire the evolution too. Wow.
Pete Wright
Of the brand
Andy Nelson
Like 25 years of branding.
Roger Fires
Of the brand. So it was a manual.
Andy Nelson
Oh my god, that's fantastic.
Roger Fires
I have a manual of application of the sacred heart as if it was a real company. So I sent to Zach, I was like, this is like uh like a metaphor. So like this is the branding, but this is what I want to do with the hospital. And then it had like a little mock-ups and concepts and everything else, like how the signage go. And then his answer was like, this is amazing, let's go. And that's when it's like, okay, let's go.
Andy Nelson
Sure.
Pete Wright
Also, we should start a real hospital.
Roger Fires
I know.
Pete Wright
It's so good. Can I can I just I wanna just a quick assay Andy, have you y I know you don't and Roger, you just gotta know. Andy famously doesn't watch television because he only watches movies. That's his love language. But uh do you Andy, you I assume you haven't watched Scrubs yet?
Andy Nelson
I've never seen an episode.
Pete Wright
It's okay.
Andy Nelson
I've never seen an episode of Scrubs.
Roger Fires
It's okay.
Pete Wright
Okay, alright.
Andy Nelson
So
Pete Wright
This is I just want so Okay, so Roger, this is the thing that I love so much.
Roger Fires
My wife hasn't.
Pete Wright
Talk about like neat little twists The thing that you don't have, because you don't have the original 25-year-old to go building, it's gone. You had to really work on the eye line for the entrance to the hospital off that emergency door. Would you explain the amazing Paintwork that you did to trick the camera and me into believing that entrance to Andy
Roger Fires
What happened was when we side that that warehouse, that stage, the stage allowed us to cut a hole. on one of the walls to connect the exterior with the the set inside the the sound stage. But the problem was We had to build this the centres in a loading bay.
Andy Nelson
Okay
Roger Fires
And the loading bay that they allow us to do was too far right at the end of the building. So one of the signatures of scrubs to is when you walk in, you you split and it can go either way. There's a lot of transistors like, oh, you go here, you go there. And then I didn't want to lose that. So I said we cannot do here, let's split, let's put the entrance in the middle and whatever. And I think 10 years ago I went to scout this house and I saw a painting by this artist called Patrick Hughes that he calls a reverse perspective So it kind of has the same principle as I don't know if you guys watch Behind the Attraction on Disney Plus when it talks about all the Disney attractions.
Andy Nelson
Yeah.
Roger Fires
And then it has the bus on uh at the Haunted Mansion. That they you you have the impression that they are uh convexed, but it's uh it's a concave, so it kind of moves.
Andy Nelson
The yeah, watching you.
Roger Fires
So it's the same principle, but what he does is like a it's a like a the geometry, but it's proud. So when you look, you walk, you have the parallax that the hallway is following you. It's pretty much like this here, right? So I I pitched that to Zach and the and Randall and everyone. It's like I show them the photos, like what about if I build this? Full scale. So I put this, I still build where they want me to build a facade outside, but through the hallway we can see this So when you have the actors and talking in front of it, we still see the parallax and we don't see a full like just like a painting, just an image. We see that it has a life.
Pete Wright
It's stinking flawless. It is flawless.
Andy Nelson
That's amazing. Yeah. It's like one of the things you would you'd see going into like an optical illusion museum or something.
Pete Wright
Yes.
Andy Nelson
Yes.
Roger Fires
Exactly what it is, yes.
Andy Nelson
That's fantastic.
Roger Fires
So I went there and and that say everyone's like, oh, it's a copyright I was like, oh, is it? So I everyone's like, oh, we're not gonna master it. Let's put the like a 2D image and don't message him and whatever. Was like, sure. Abraham, Tatrick, I'm a production design of scrubs. I want to do this. And then he mailed me back saying Come to the studio in UK. I was like, I don't think I can make it tomorrow because I I'm I'm in Vancouver
Andy Nelson
Yeah, I'm not quite close enough.
Roger Fires
But he said, I'll call you. He called me and then he was the sweetest man on earth. He said, like so many people steal my idea. But because you were so respectful of actually approaching to see if you could use and then see how we can use it, you can do whatever you want. And I'll help you to do it. I was like, I think we're gonna have our department try it out. And then if I have a problem, I'll call you back. And we made we built this model with angles of how that perspective would have to work because What Patrick told me is all his paintings are standalone. It's just an image. Ours had to work within the building. in a proper vantage point in every single angle that the camera is.
Andy Nelson
Yeah.
Roger Fires
So it was not like, hey We have to put the camera on this angle to work. No, it has to work in every single uh angle and it has to follow a vantage point into from the hallway. So we did we f fine-tuned we picked the angle and everything else we created like a different element because him His comes forward and it has the the like the the angle sh uh walls but we where the the hallway leading to inside we push back a bit so it's like it has like a a different dementia that he has. And I think we found out that that gag worked when my construction coordinator dog was walking into the hallway and then he stopped in front of the that image and then you could see him And then when the dog had a reaction and look at them, it's okay, I think we did it.
Andy Nelson
Wow.
Roger Fires
Because
Pete Wright
Uh it's it it really is incredible because once you know it and and you're watching these any of these these um entrance sequences, right, where the young doctors are out there and Zack is out there and they're doing their bits. The camera comes at it from sometimes really interesting, straight on angles, sometimes from very hard angles, and I'm never once thrown from the illusion. I'm never once thrown. It is, it's like old school.
Roger Fires
Cool, thank you so much.
Pete Wright
It seems like such dram like dynamically old school filmmaking. It's just a really cool evolution of a mat and it it just works perfectly.
Roger Fires
Oh thank you. Uh I think like one thing that I love doing is like I love about my job so much, and I think that's why I appreciate the AI and the evolution of the like that we are going ahead into, but I think AI as Photoshop was from or or the AutoCAD to the hand drawing, it has to be a tool. It it cannot be a a a process of
Pete Wright
Yeah, it's a r it's a wrench.
Roger Fires
It's a wrench. It's like you cannot use that as a like your guidance to hey, give me a set like this and say, hey, I love that version. Throw it to the director. I think that's it, it's it's a tool, but I love what I call to my departments the broadery. How can we make the broadway thing? So I like the Violent Night that I had the same problem when I had to build one floor of the house. And then I flipped panels to be the second floor. So I had just a panel that I I did a test first if I could spin the panel.
Andy Nelson
Nice
Roger Fires
So we do it like this and then the top spin it has a different wallpaper. But because we have to make walls uh back to back, we couldn't, double-sided walls, we couldn't spin uh effectively. So I was like, how can we make like something that is uh like quick and easy, especially in TV. TV, like we had five days to shoot an episode. So we have to go so fast. It's like how can I make like the magnets and those elements? I another really fun thing that I really want to do, like in one of my projects that I ha I managed to do on scrubs twice. was the old color coded uh from the old sitcoms like monsters that when you see the black and white set you see how the set looks on camera but you when you go see how the color sat was. All the this the set was colored by luminance. So it's how the color works in black and white, not necessarily the real color.
Andy Nelson
Yeah
Roger Fires
So I did that twice on the scrubs with the Noir. And with now the last episode with the with the old porn with the piano.
Pete Wright
It's so good. So good.
Roger Fires
That that the whole set when you see the color of the set, especially the the the port, it's like orange walls and red curtains and like it looks like a a really weird uh choice.
Andy Nelson
Right.
Roger Fires
But when you photograph uh how perfect the tones goes in black white, that's like an old trick from like the uh the 40s and and 30s and it was like I I would love to use that. And then when the when they said we're gonna do a black and white war, I was like, hell yeah.
Andy Nelson
Let's play
Roger Fires
Let's and then I did this whole corner. Literally did a corner with the whole crazy callers, spray to the whole scheme and then show to the DP. And he was like, oh. So he did a test and was like, oh my God, this is so cool. And then it it worked so well. It's so fun.
Andy Nelson
That's awesome. Well, I mean it's nice being able to hear that, that you get to actually have those moments where you get to explore and play and try these sorts of things. I I'm curious because you've worked with a variety of like, you know, people who've been around for a while, uh you know, James Gray to uh the people behind like nobody with all the fantastic stunt understandings that they are bringing to the table. Violent night, obviously kind of a very sim similar sort of thing. How does that all shift for you when you go and work with a first-time director like Gavin uh Palone on on Psycho Killer? Do you do you find there's a a little more of a dance as far as how you approach things because first time out there doing something like this. What's your what changes for you in in a situation like that?
Roger Fires
Oh like I've been to like the first time or position. I just did a project with uh Jay Hernandez that is coming out soon, uh his first time directing uh a horror movie. But uh in the case of Jay and Gavin, they could they are first-time directors, but they are all timer in the industry.
Andy Nelson
Sure, yeah, yeah.
Roger Fires
So they have like a really intense knowledge not only on what it takes, what it goes on the camera, but also of the hierarchy and the the appreciation of your position too. So with Gavin specifically. Like both of them, but Gavin with that moment. I but like Stir of Echoes is one of the best horror movies. I uh like that movie's fantastic. And I keep watching, it keeps surprising me. Like it's it's It's you you always get goosebumps and then uh think Gilmore Girls and uh Zombieland and other things I've done When he stepped into the the directing uh position when we talked about what we want to do with the Soul Project, he especially when he started coming from working with 87 North, he came to me as like, you tell me How we want to design this, how how the the the the the houses, the place, how the gag would work better, and then I'll follow your lead. So I didn't step into I'm quite nosy when it comes to specially featured films like what about this story here, like it this nobody changed the ending. It was a totally different end and a page alien. It's like, what about and then the this house has a basement type of situation? I really know it's in that way, but with Gavin, it was like a such an intense and fun collaboration that Gavin And he's known for being that difficult producer. Uh and then I see him producing while I was shooting nobody. I mean uh uh psychokiller, he was producing uh the other movie with Georgina. And then I could see him talking as a producer and then how a lay producer he is. And then he hung up the phone and he becomes a Gavin director and everyone's like, oh my God, it's a totally different person.
Andy Nelson
Wow, okay
Roger Fires
But it's so funny. But like he's the sweetest man. He became such a fun friend. Like I just did a movie with John Turteltaub and Joe said, oh my god, friends with Gavin. I was like, oh no, it's going to take a photo and said to Gavin and Gavin said, my God, John. So Gavin, he really trusts the process He really trusts your position. He really understands what everyone brings to the tape. Not only me, but Minus and the DP We all had a really good time. So it's really hard. I had experience when I learned I worked with the first time director that I had never stepped on a set before. those are the times that are like uh it made me wanted to quit the industry. But when it works someone that it's it has this knowledge. prior and understands how the the wheel works, I think those are like it's I don't consider them first time directors. It's but like it's it's always gonna be a filmmaker.
Andy Nelson
Well it's great to know that he's somebody who like understood the process and everything. how he had learned how to switch hats internally so that he could he so that he came across as a director, as you said. Like that's actually pretty interesting.
Roger Fires
And then and how appreciative he was, or like it said, like, oh my god, it looks great, or like Roger was the MVP, that kind of stuff. And then producers like uh cat the line producer came to me and said like a gaving does not drop that if he doesn't believe uh true I'd rather work with someone that is honest and transparent and say like, hey what do you think about this? And then doesn't go around circles to say he doesn't like it. They say like, no, it doesn't work. It's like great, let's do something else. It doesn't waste my and gaving it's like that direct. If it likes, it likes. If it doesn't, it's like I don't think it's gonna work. Okay, let's move on. So he is the MVP. He's like uh learned so much from him, he's uh the beast.
Pete Wright
The interesting thing to me about Psychokiller, especially as we pivot from talking about Scrubs, is that I think they came out like six days apart from each other.
Roger Fires
I I was in LA for uh like a uh a week.
Andy Nelson
Yeah.
Roger Fires
I had two premieres.
Pete Wright
Yeah, right. That's a that is a a very I mean, uh you know, stuff comes out all the time. But for you, these two projects Could not be more different from one another, right?
Roger Fires
It's
Pete Wright
So I imagine, I don't want to put words in your mouth, I imagine you did not do a rebranding guide for the Psychokiller What what goes into you taking on projects like these these sort of harder edge horror uh projects? You know, how do you how do you approach these from that perspective, especially when you're coming back and forth off of something like scrubs.
Roger Fires
I think like one of the fun things about uh Psychokiller was one of the the things that I talked to Gavin was I didn't want to fall into the the cartoonish version of the satanic. We had uh Paddington, which is Malcolm McDowell, character that he's that character. He's the cartoon
Andy Nelson
So fun to watch, yeah.
Roger Fires
buffoons yeah satanic I got and when I talk to Gavin like I want the things to be more the the uncanny vibe So like the whole so how you see the satanic icons and elements and how you know that that doesn't belong to sacred So when we went to like the the the masks, all the inscriptions it has in the mask and the approach, like one of the things is this here, uh have the tattoo.
Andy Nelson
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Pete Wright
Yeah, right.
Roger Fires
Which is this the the six six six, there was something that would talk about the how she gonna clue
Pete Wright
Yeah, there it is.
Roger Fires
how Jane is gonna clue that psycho killer is the guy behind us. And and then I I we were having lunch and then I I did the 666 on a wall and how we would move and become his m and become his mask. And then Gavin was like Oh my God. And then sent to the studio this is going to be on the logo and everything else. And then it was something that he said to me, like in private, that I was like, you know what? They're going to tattoo this. It's going to be when I have that imposter syndrome moment or look at that and remember what he said was like yes so that's why I have the tattoo but the whole idea of how this elements gonna combine and now become something pasti shift like the the whole satanic. So when it came to Pendant mentioned we had this backstory that he was this really wealthy person then start slowing and and then sa downsizing the houses, but he's still hoarding and then like the books and everything else. And then he had this kind of like a grey hall of satanic uh orgies. We did when uh we went to the dining room, which is the first time that you see the devil confronting the buffoon, which is the satanic buffoon, everything around had that the iconography of what you think the devil is. So you have the goats on a wall, but the goat on the wall doesn't have two eyes, it has six eyes. Uh so it has like this uncanny uh valley things like the snake wallpaper, which is the the first time that you see the The devil in the Bible is like through a snake form. So he has like the snakes. So there's this whole idea how we see for the first time the devil. And then the other elements that it goes. When it goes to the Grey Hall, Andrew wrote that he had this photo of Lucifer on the Grey Hall. And then I told them it's like I don't want to do that. I don't want to do baphomet. I don't want to do anything that is kind of like cartoonish. And then I show them the representation. What is an angel described in the Bible, which is that classic photo with the dove wings and uh the eyes, and So it's this weird and it was what about we do a version of this but the devil? So instead of like the the eyes we do snake eyes, we do bat wings, we do like something that is the reverse of this, but it's not in your face. So we from that we start replicating and bringing death into to the room, the chair that he dies with the with the the antlers. I went to a church And there was like a abandoned church that they want to sell everything that it was in the basement. And then I bought all the pills and uh elements in the strike. uh like making my own furniture so like the candle holders the appeals that I I drew it so like what about we cut the edges we put it forward we put layers in we put all the candles And then the the gong was like a uh a bad frame that like in this classic bad frame that was like, oh, let's build a gong out of this.
Andy Nelson
Yeah.
Roger Fires
And and one of the fun things uh was uh It's like the answers was great, like labs that we start doing. So there's a lot of elements that we start changing. But I had an idea. for color palette. And then they cast Malcolm. And then one of the memories that I have is watching X uh Caligula.
Andy Nelson
Oh, okay, yeah.
Roger Fires
In the begin in the beginning.
Pete Wright
Boy, those were the days, am I right?
Andy Nelson
Yeah, yeah.
Roger Fires
Oh, those were the days, staying late, uh, play playing at two in the morning.
Pete Wright
Yeah.
Roger Fires
Uh and then I was like What about if I bring a little bit of a Caligula into this?
Pete Wright
Yeah. Yeah.
Roger Fires
So I put the black marble. the curtains like everything's like all the the fabric. I didn't use a single wallpaper in that whole house. Everything was fabric on a wall. And then I had this beautiful chandeliers of the church that I bought to that they were made to be like this, right? Picked from the ceiling. And so they're not gonna work for us. I said they will if we flip upside down. So instead of like like this, we did like spikes coming down. So you have those two. So when the Malcolm came, he walked on the site and I saw him talking with the film commissioner. And then I went there to introduce myself and then And then he looked at me, he's like, you your work reminds me a lot of Danilo Donati, which he was back the art director on Caligula, and was like, you have no idea how that means to me
Andy Nelson
That's so funny.
Pete Wright
How cool that is. Did you get that tattooed? Like Malcolm McDowell quote.
Andy Nelson
Yeah, right.
Roger Fires
No, it's like I I next time I I almost like can you
Pete Wright
I have no more room, man.
Andy Nelson
That's right, that's right.
Pete Wright
Well, it's a you know, it's really fascinating too when you look at just how I I mean how w Gavin uses some of those images.
Andy Nelson
Okay.
Pete Wright
Like you look at the at that image of of i the angel devil you're talking about, and then we get that sort of hero moment at the end where he's in red in Three Mile Island and he's got his arms uh outstretched and And uh all of these sort of uh these sort of patterns of images keep being used throughout the film, uh I I think pretty effectively. It's be it's good looking.
Andy Nelson
But but as you said, it's like it's like real it's like the real world devil as opposed to the the version that Malcolm McDowell's character had kind of like created in his space, right?
Pete Wright
Yes
Roger Fires
Yeah. And then the select Malcolm is like what a pleasure to see him work.
Andy Nelson
Oh, I c yeah, I can imagine, yeah.
Pete Wright
Yeah, yeah
Roger Fires
Uh it's like there's in the screen in the movie you see a little bit of the speech that he gives, but that speech is huge.
Andy Nelson
Much longer.
Pete Wright
Yeah.
Roger Fires
way longer and we were like, whoa, it's it's a lesson.
Pete Wright
How do we touch that?
Roger Fires
Yeah.
Andy Nelson
Yeah, right, man.
Pete Wright
Yeah.
Roger Fires
Yeah
Pete Wright
Can I can I just ask a practical question?
Andy Nelson
Oh my gosh. I oh
Pete Wright
Where what is the derivation of the mask? Is the is that source mas I mean it did from a character perspective, did he build that himself or does that come off of some piece of equipment somewhere that I'm not familiar with. It's got like electrodes all over it. Like what's going on there?
Roger Fires
So what happened was uh there was a backstory for the mask that it kinda explained. in the in the the movie that we shot, but like the movie got rearranged a little bit and that piece got left out. Uh what happens is it's a mask of deprivation. So when he goes to that place that he escaped, it's uh like he has a feeding mouth, but it's kind of like to deprive him from the sensors. So he's so used to Damask now. Like it's part of his life that you see him, he cannot sleep in a bed anymore. he has to sleep in a closet and he has to cut all the the the like all the sensors he has so that's what the the mask comes from so he grabs the mask he takes the mask over and then he makes his war paint and and that's where it's from.
Andy Nelson
Interesting.
Pete Wright
It's a little bit of a bummer that that got left out. I think that's a that that's an important point to me. Because I think, you know, from an iconic perspective, and I watch these these movies and watch these horror movies and I think, okay, what is it about this movie that would allow us to transcend a single entry and create a franchise out of this guy? And uh that's that's the part I'm sort of most interested in. W is there ever a chance that this guy, this devil, could come back? and give us more story. That's horror franchise engine.
Andy Nelson
Well, he's not dead.
Pete Wright
Yeah, not dead.
Andy Nelson
Yeah.
Pete Wright
So um and I think he has a look that could tr could do that.
Andy Nelson
Yeah. It's yeah.
Roger Fires
Absolutely. And then it was something that we talked since the beginning. It's like uh like at the end of the movie when he gets back, because one of the things that it talks in the movie And you see in the radio, it's like, oh, the government has this institution that they put all the serial killers there to study and whatever. It's kinda like it's totally just foreshadowing what's gonna happen and it's like he escaped, he is uh Richard and then he's he gets bringed back but It's it's hard to say don't quote me or anything because we're talking live, but the m the movie that we shot was a little bit different than the movie that came out.
Pete Wright
Yep, got it.
Andy Nelson
Mm. Yeah, yeah. Interesting.
Roger Fires
Yeah, there's a lot that i it could be more explored.
Andy Nelson
Yeah, right, right. Well let's shift gears. Speaking of talking about satanic imagery, let's uh jump over to the exorcist. Watching these back to back, the the first thing that I was like, I hit the point in the church where the the statue has been desecrated and it just immediately put me into the psycho killer headspace because you know, we're looking at just like like interesting desecration of of imagery and everything. I mean it's such a great film. It's uh obviously it's uh stood the test of time, but let's Let's start talking about uh you mentioned um before we started recording that you had a story about this, and I'm very curious about about your story with the exorcist.
Roger Fires
I do, yeah.
Andy Nelson
So yeah, jump in.
Roger Fires
I grew up in Brazil I until I was 27, I would say years old, my dad was a janitor, my mom was a mate. And then in Brazil, a janitor, they have a room in a building. that they lived, they had a house, a kitchen, a bathroom. And that's how we grew up. I grew up uh was like a place like 10 by 10 feet, me and my mom and my dad. And I didn't have a bedroom until I kind of like move out. So like I I never had like the like I would love to have like a a man cave. There was a lot of things like uh my my parents used to sleep here and they used to sleep in this bed here. So there's a lot of films. Of course, it's inappropriate for kids. And in my dad's they would love to watch horror movies. And then there's two movies that they loved. One of them was The Fearless Vampire Killer, which is one of my favorite Polonskis.
Andy Nelson
Okay.
Pete Wright
Okay
Roger Fires
An exorcist. An exorcist is known for like Brazil is known for the great voice dubs they do. So the movies are really good there. And then it like the when they dubbed, they dubbed really well. We have fantastic artists.
Andy Nelson
Oh, great, nice to hear.
Roger Fires
So it's not like a it's not like a like sometimes no like
Andy Nelson
Yeah Yeah, the really cheesy ones were nothing synced.
Roger Fires
they do it's it's no it's crazy how good they are to the point that some movies now I prefer the Brazilian version
Andy Nelson
Right, yeah, these are good ones.
Roger Fires
But my parents said, like, are we gonna watch this movie? I don't want you to watch. And then I saw the preview. The whole day, the anticipation was seeing the preview, was like terrified. And I was like. 10 11 My parents said look at the wall.
Andy Nelson
Yeah. Wow, okay
Roger Fires
When you lie down, don't lie down, look it this way. If you wake up, I don't want you to see anything. So lie, look at the wall. So I look at the wall, but I couldn't sleep. So I heard the whole exorcist.
Andy Nelson
Wow.
Pete Wright
Oh my God
Roger Fires
As if it was uh like a a radio uh soap opera
Andy Nelson
Yeah.
Pete Wright
Yeah, that's terrifying, man. Seriously. That's straight up trauma
Roger Fires
Way more terrifying.
Andy Nelson
Yeah, I was gonna say that's that's cr really creepy.
Roger Fires
I'm telling you, it's it's it's trauma.
Andy Nelson
Yeah.
Roger Fires
That leads me I was I never I watched I used to like every s you name it, by 16 I had watched every single horror movie. Like everyone has uh collecting cards like here in in the in North America have like football cards or hockey or baseball or whatever in Brazil. I had the soccer and I had horror Like my whole thing was just like Freddie, Love It, Costume, like everything was just about horror. I never touched The Exorcist. Never watch it.
Andy Nelson
Well
Roger Fires
Didn't want to hear about it.
Pete Wright
That was your movie. Okay.
Roger Fires
That was too much. Terrified. When I was 30 years old. I said, you know what, it's time to break this curse.
Andy Nelson
Yeah.
Roger Fires
We I have to watch the exorcist
Pete Wright
I am a grown damned man. I can do this.
Roger Fires
I I I can do it, but let's not push too far. I'm not watching at night.
Andy Nelson
Uh okay, all right, limits.
Roger Fires
So so like summer four p. m. I was like, okay, with my my girlfriend back in the day is like let's watch this. And I could not be happier that I watched and how much I fell in love with that movie. And how that movie kind of followed me is like for different reasons for like the story, like of course the trauma, like the the coming up of like, hey, I can face my fears and and and and and put myself out there and say let's watch this but also when I became a filmmaker, how That movie it's so well done in every single aspect of filmmaking. But David Wasco, when he watched nobody, I asked him, How was I? So like, did uh did you like it? And then he said to me, You were unnoticeably good. And that was one of the biggest compliments I have, and this is the exorcist. unnoticeably good in every single aspect. Every single piece of the filmmaking comes together to tell you that story and you don't get distracted by anything. The way that the first seven minutes, like the notorious of the first seven minutes, tells you the whole story of what's gonna happen, foreshadowing everything, is one of the most brilliant things I ever seen in like in the history of films and there's so much to it that every time that you keep watching you keep diving in oh I didn't notice that I didn't notice this and it it's it's incredibly brilliant. So that is my connection with the exorcist and how how I fell in love with it
Andy Nelson
It is such an interesting movie and I I'm glad you brought up the beginning because the way it starts, like sometimes you forget that yeah, we spend this whole opening act with uh Father Merrin in Iraq on this dig, there's not there's not much dialogue.
Pete Wright
Yeah, you totally forget that. Yeah
Andy Nelson
It's it's you know it's it's very minimal as far as like what he's doing. You just get just creepy tones and images and the the l the wind that's blowing, you know, the demon Pazuzu I know is associated with wind, so it really makes sense. But like that little just that little statue head that he finds in that in that hole, that's just creepy, right? And then and then that yeah, and that whole yeah.
Roger Fires
And then the whole hole. How the whole is how the whole is the whole is literally a dog in a way that is a cross.
Andy Nelson
Yeah.
Pete Wright
Yeah, right.
Roger Fires
And then their hat gets the hat gets found under the cross.
Andy Nelson
Creepy, yeah.
Roger Fires
So there's so so many like the whole team, like uh film out like but like the whole like our team like how they thought about that is kinda like what I every time they're gonna make a movie right now they think how can I make that exorcist things like even at the the bat like when the ends at the the window of her apartment and they're slight Right, because like Jesus is light and then lights are off And the devil arrives, you know? So it's like just when that ends, like everything and then It's pretty much that window is there to serve that purpose. I think when we go into the bedroom, everything's like the window is a fourth wall. So she's the widow is there for two purposes like for for that opening and for cares to to die.
Andy Nelson
Yeah, yeah. Quite the death window with Burke getting uh getting tossed out of it and then yeah, and and uh and uh uh Father Karras as well. It's also really interesting that it's called The Exorcist, and again, we meet Father Merrin at the beginning, and then he's gone for like the bulk of the movie.
Roger Fires
Yeah.
Andy Nelson
It it takes a long time. Like that's what I find so fascinating is the journey. I mean, this is a journey film of poor Chris, this actress, trying to figure out what the heck is wrong with my daughter. Like that's the bulk of the movie She doesn't even bring Father Karras until well over an hour into the movie, right? And then and then we have the final last half hour where Father Merrin finally pops back up. What it's such an interesting structure and it always strikes me. I'm like, this is Not done like a horror movie.
Roger Fires
I think that's what they it's one of the scariest, like my kid, I have a uh eighty year old and a soon to be six year old daughter and an eight year old boy that he's their love horror movies.
Andy Nelson
Okay.
Roger Fires
In a way that they wanted to watch. Well, we go to every Spirit Halloween and they know everything, but they never watch it as a single horror movie.
Pete Wright
Yeah.
Andy Nelson
Okay, okay
Roger Fires
I just introduced them to Monster Squad. I said let's start slowly.
Andy Nelson
Oh, there they go. Easier, easier, a little mu horror comedy, yeah.
Roger Fires
Easier. Yeah.
Andy Nelson
Yep.
Roger Fires
But he keeps asking me, what's your like the scary movie? Do you ever watch? It was Exorcist. And it keeps asking what it is about. And was like, it's kind of like what they used to call it a religious drama. So like you don't see a horror. Or like the fear, the anticipation of the fear that we're about to have, it's way bigger than the horror of itself. I think that's why it's so brilliant that Like a few movies, they've done that so well. Like uh there's no jump scare. There's no uh it's just like the fear that is being implemented and It's come like a James Wan does the so well. So like it does a few movies that he does, it has jump scare. But like some of the movies they are so like The Conjuring there's a scene to that there's a closet and then you just steal top and she's on top of the closet like any other filmmaker would do like you do like a a a sound cue. No, it just like, oh my God, that's terrifying. An exorcist has that of just imagine that little girl and then if the movie was not like if you would talk about watching that out of the blue without knowing what it is it would have the same experience as the family.
Andy Nelson
Hmm, yeah, right.
Roger Fires
So you would say like is she's sick if she's not sick. It's what it is. And And I've watched uh like I'm a freak with those uh things too. So I watch a lot of documentaries about the first exorcism documented by the Vatican and that kind of stuff, and it it's the same process. No one knows what it is, it's sick and two. They start like talking different language or this and then it's like, oh, there's something else here.
Andy Nelson
Yeah, something else going on.
Roger Fires
And and then I think the movie, there's few elements of the moving that is so the stairwell, the choice of the stairwell, like the some of the scenes that you see both priests facing each other but in different panels. There there's so many elements that it's so it literally it's there's always that thing back in my mind when I read a movie, read something, what can I bring that is something brilliant like the exorcist that is it has those elements and that's the first perspective or the framing and like the the window there you see through and then you you read the the distance of the character so it's so well done in that sense of visual storytelling that I don't think I couldn't think a better movie to to talk with you guys. It's like he has to be the exorcist.
Pete Wright
I think it's a s it is one of those I I look at this movie, I watch it like just watching the movie, thinking about you watching the movie.
Andy Nelson
Yeah.
Pete Wright
And I wonder At what point you are able to turn off the I'm an audience member and I'm just letting myself be rocked by the story and Transition to how the hell are they doing that so effectively? Like from the gimbal, the bed, the like all of those things that allow you to be inspired by movies like this that put this on the on your your like m Mastercraft list of aspirational movies
Roger Fires
I think that's why exorcist is so important to me because of the first like let's call it three, four times that I watch it I watch as an audience member. I watch like being first of all like I had to defeat that trauma. So I had to watch the movie
Pete Wright
Yes.
Andy Nelson
Yeah, right, that was first.
Pete Wright
Congratulations, by the way. I'm s we're we're all really proud of you.
Andy Nelson
Yeah.
Pete Wright
You've done you're doing great work
Roger Fires
Thank you so much. Like it's my it's my twenty-fifth anniversary. Uh
Pete Wright
Yeah.
Roger Fires
I and then after that to start diving into the story. It took a while since though, of course, the first time that I watched until I actually found myself as a filmmaker. And then watching and thinking about the gags, but the funny thing is I just watch with my family Wicked for Good again at home. And I like I'm a sucker for like Nathan Crowley and like everyone that like in that project, but The amount of times that I look at my wife watching a movie and then she's into the film too and then we all like, oh my god, the set.
Pete Wright
Oh boy, when Grande comes down those stairs, that entire musical number blows my mind.
Roger Fires
But like if she were like we spent the whole night like googling uh and then I was trying to explain to her it's like it's a green screen and pull out and then there's a and then she was like, I have to read this.
Pete Wright
Yeah. How yeah. Right.
Andy Nelson
Wow. Yeah, yeah.
Roger Fires
So uh Exorcist never took me away, even knowing like the fridge, a gag, the room, like how they put the the room into the fridge, the the the the the gags, the cables and the uh all the the practical rigs and everything else never took me away because of how it's crafted I'm not saying that wicked is not crafted that way, but wicked is made to sh to impress. You have to be transported into that world. The exorcist, you you will live in that world. You you know how a house looks like. You know.
Pete Wright
I've I've walked stairs before.
Roger Fires
I walked the stairs before.
Andy Nelson
Yeah, yeah
Roger Fires
I know whether my ha my house is cold and I turn on the thermostat is not cold anymore. I don't have Cold breath inside my house. So those elements it kind of brings the into more into the movie than actually take you out. But I always when I re-watch it was like, oh my god, I forgot about that gag. How did they do it? And then uh tried to read and and and and find out how those gags were We're done and then we just did uh like something similar on scrubs. We talk about the rigging. We talk about the traveling without moving. with the Turk and and Ed was like how we gonna do that and then I send a video of uh Jamiroquai and was like It's the wall that moves. We cannot do that because we have a hospital. So and then the camera team, the rigging team that built this amazing contraption that it was like an inch from the floor. So we wouldn't have JD too and Turk too tall. So It's kind of like those practical elements that you have to go back to those old movies to solve something that you're doing here in the technology days of AI days that it's like how can we make that effective? We could totally shoot that in the in the green screen.
Pete Wright
Glad you didn't, and that you that we got a Jamiroquai reference on this show. That's astounding.
Roger Fires
I know. And then we had a and you know it's funny though.
Pete Wright
That's a great video, man.
Roger Fires
I I I don't know if you're gonna ask where to cut this, but we had a We had Carla burning like on fire. Sorry to get out of the exorcist a little bit, but like we had we have Carla on fire.
Andy Nelson
No, you're fine, yeah.
Roger Fires
And when I read in the script, I looked at them and said, are we Doing this practical and after fires before it's like, yes, we're doing practical. It's like okay, great. So we plan everything, it's like
Pete Wright
But Carla, she's so sweet.
Roger Fires
I was like, okay, fun. I I get it. And then the max script came with a gag that with the janitor and everything. Like there was a a pipe the pipe would explode and then they flood the hospital and this gag with the JD and JD gets dragged by the water to meet Charlie. That was the original idea. And then I sat down with the producer with Randall was like, remember the fire gag? How complicated that was. Yeah, multiply that by a thousand. That's a water gag. So so you're aware that's gonna be really hard, but every time, it's like the mention the black and white.
Pete Wright
Wow
Roger Fires
I didn't want to shoot with the how we was today and just transform a real set into black and white. I wanted to do something more. And then I had to go back. to see how they did it. And and then Exorcist is one of those movies that I had to go back and see how did they do that? How did they the staircase, how the house was decided to to have that rig that she climbs and and then you see her. So like those are the things that a movie like that with like not a huge amount of resources that we have these days and not only financial resources, but like gear and tools and that that's how you have to go back and and and drink from that fountain and say, hey, we can do something really effective here. that it touched the audience in a way that I don't think AI would ever do I I don't wanna go and watch a movie with a fake Tom Hanks and a fake Tom Cruise and a fake short snagger fighting. I wanna see Tom Cruise doing the gags. Quick example that I was having a chat with uh an architect. Uh when we did the prices right gag on scrubs that with the Dr. Cox uh finding the results. I mean, waiting to find the results and then we have the prices, right, Gag. I told my department's like we have to make a model. And we made a model, like a quarter inch model, a half-inch model. Every single piece was movable. So I had my whole art department, each one holding a little piece to make the same movement as we would do in a camera and I shoot it with my phone and say, okay, and then the curtains fall. The walls open everything and I sent to the them. That itself was enough to sell the idea because of the craft behind. I think if I had said that as a as a video on a SketchUp or whatever, I would probably get a note back. from there said, hey, can you move this here? Can you turn this out of the collar or do whatever? But because there was so craft, so much craft behind that It got respected by what we did and by what we accomplished. So I think that's why when you see like Wicked and so like with the huge models, Planet of the Apes and whatever, there's a level of pre-craft uh pre-camera craft that it goes that it gets respected by yes you you put some thought in this and then I think the computer there's so many amazing artists that does that that do that so well It still have a little bit of a hey, since we did this here, can we make this room bigger? Can we make this? And then it kind of the craft puts more like in the practical aspect that's hey we I respect what it did. I don't want to touch it, but when we do their we make that bigger and whatever, but this is so cool. So I think like that's why that movie's so untouched like in that way because everything was done so well. There's nothing that we would change today and there's nothing that we would replicate in a different way that it was not how it was done there.
Andy Nelson
Yeah, and I think that's uh something that you definitely get with William Friedkin, right, as a director who who seems to just revel in the idea of like, well, I don't wanna I don't want to s make it sound terrible, but like putting his actors through it. Like he he really seems to want to create an actual physical environment that they can react to. Whatever w whatever it takes, whatever the production design needs to be to get them there, however the costumes need to be designed, whatever sort of vis like uh physical effects they're bringing in. Like it seems like that's the sort of thing that he really puts uh puts his actors through. And you see that in this film and the French connection in Sorcerer. Like that's something that he really, really uh worked to achieve. And I know you hear plenty of stories about how difficult it was for for some of the actors, certainly the case with uh you know uh both Ellen and Linda. uh working on this one as far as some of the things that they had to go through. But I think also it just it brings an incredible sense of authenticity and and a sense of space. And I think that's the key is like I I feel like all of this is really Here and happening.
Roger Fires
Absolutely. And then I think one of the aspects that we when we talk about a horror. That we talk about the one sad horror, like the low budget horror that you have the one sad thing. So like, oh, evil dad shooting a cabin and whatever. But like if you think about the exorcist, yes, you have those open fields that it kinda add the the element to to like the big budget look of exorcists with like Iraq and and like the the cultural aspect and then you have the churches and everything, but it is There. It's close to fall back. And you in a house, we it's it's it is uh almost like the premise, like the what would be the epitome of Making a good horror movie is right there. It's what happens inside there. And there's nothing more terrifying than you'd be stuck in a room with the devil.
Andy Nelson
Yeah, right
Roger Fires
With a like a 13-year-old devil. I think that's so well done in that sense that even like the he brings that the little like the world But he goes there and then it puts you in that room to suffer and then to to live that life. So I think that's the amount of times that like again going back and say like, hey, how can we We can add the big budget look. How can we make this? You have like the big location, the beautiful location, whatever. And then you go into with your resources and say like hey but this is where the movie takes place but we add but we added the the the big look so when it like nobody or like of those movies when they watch us like how much that movie cost
Andy Nelson
But the bedroom is what it's all about, yeah.
Roger Fires
Not as much as you think because like we were smart of like using the big locations to kind of use your money uh wisely on them
Andy Nelson
I love it. I love it. Did you ever go back now that you've gotten through your issues with it and seen the film. Have you gone through the Exorcist franchise? Like or are or is that like, you know what, the first one's all I need?
Roger Fires
Uh I know I like the first one. I like the third one a lot. And then I think there's yes, one of the most scary scenes like of course uh
Andy Nelson
Third one's great, yeah. That the ceiling, whoo, man. That yeah, yep.
Roger Fires
But one of the uh I think one of the most underrated movies is The Exorcist, the Beginning.
Andy Nelson
Is that the which version is that one? Is that Rennie Harlan's or is that the Is that the one that um oh who is the other director who came in and re remade that one? Because there were that was the one where it was two versions of it, right?
Roger Fires
I think it was with the young uh I have to look now. Yes, but there was a y uh Skarsgård.
Andy Nelson
It's it it's Skarsgård, right?
Pete Wright
Yeah, it was Skarsgård.
Roger Fires
Skarsgård
Andy Nelson
Yeah. So yeah, that's so Rennie Harlan directed Exorcist: The Beginning, but It was such an interesting story because Paul Schrader started it and it was called Dimin Dominion.
Roger Fires
Well, really
Andy Nelson
Yeah, it's actually they both ended up getting finished. And I definitely, if you enjoy Exorcist: The Beginning, go check out Paul Schrader's version. I think it's Dominion: Prequel to the Exorcist.
Pete Wright
Prequel to the Exorcist, yeah.
Roger Fires
Okay
Andy Nelson
It's it's the same story, but two different directors taking it in different places and stuff is a really interesting experience watching those two things. um because of the story that went in behind of like it getting like taken away from it.
Roger Fires
Oh well, that's
Andy Nelson
It it's crazy, yeah.
Roger Fires
So like there's a wolf scene, like the the one that I watched, there's a wolf scene, but so the wolf like eating uh and then so we have to go and unlock the the where the Lucifer fell and then you have like this statues like pointing down and then She's like it was one of the things I would never do. Let's go there midnight to close that gate. I was like, let's wait for 9 a. m.
Andy Nelson
Yeah, right. Is there a reason it has to be a midnight?
Roger Fires
Let's let's call some friends and then you go into the tunnel and then you see that creature coming. Oh what's like, no, it'll be like, okay, I'll I'll be in bed, lock the doors, and I'll come back at 9 a.
Andy Nelson
Right.
Roger Fires
m.
Andy Nelson
Yeah, right.
Roger Fires
Uh no reason for that.
Pete Wright
Yeah, why me? Why am I even involved in this stupid event?
Roger Fires
So like don't yeah, so like is my name in the Bible? What's going on? I'm not doing that.
Andy Nelson
Yeah.
Roger Fires
And it's and it's funny too because I grew up Catholic. My my uncle's a priest and everything. I'm not by any means right now religious at all. But I had religious classes in college with one of the guys actually reading the lost books from the Bible, like those books that they took from the Bible and they placed somewhere
Andy Nelson
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.
Roger Fires
And it is so many uh like meanings and iconographies and names that they put in the Bible to represent something. that that movie there's like uh with the Lucifer down was one of the things that was right on that time and I was like oh that's why they did it and that's what he means like Some of the things, but like I that movie I think is underrated because there's so many good horror scenes that if it was done, it's uh one of the like uh Biggest uh like most controversial things that I could say is Nacho Libre. If Nacho Libre was done in Italy, in nineteen fifties and like sixties as a neo-Italian classic, it'll be one of the greatest movies of all time.
Pete Wright
Hot take.
Roger Fires
Hot take that that exorcist the beginning with
Andy Nelson
Yeah. Yeah.
Pete Wright
Yeah.
Roger Fires
those scenes, the the wolf and the tunnel and everything, if he was done by Friedkin like in the 60s, 70s, it would be a really good movie. I think because It carries the legacy of the exorcist and everything else. It kind of says, eh, another one of those, which I don't know what's gonna happen with Flanagan.
Pete Wright
Yeah, baggage
Roger Fires
But it's just like one of those things that if So going back, if you get that movie, the same movie, and then you made practical and you make with the cameras and the way. I think that's why when you have a horror movie that is done in the 70s, 80s, that you don't have like the hey Get the flashlight here and see who's in a corner there. Like it it loses a little bit and and I think those movies
Andy Nelson
Yeah
Roger Fires
It it it gets into the underrated because of that, because it doesn't carry the the history and the craft.
Andy Nelson
I hear ya. Well, I mean it's a fantastic movie. I'm so glad that you brought it uh to the show to chat about because it's uh it's well worth talking about and always worth revisiting. So
Roger Fires
Absolutely, yes.
Pete Wright
One of the greats.
Roger Fires
What are the I have so many shirts and uh oh we should have worn my shirts like today like the uh
Andy Nelson
Oh yeah, you're wearing the wrong shirt.
Pete Wright
And now what are you doing? Repping the Jaws shirt for an exorcist conversation?
Roger Fires
You know what? Uh I have to grab my shirt now. Now it's
Andy Nelson
Oh, okay. Oh.
Pete Wright
We're gonna start over.
Roger Fires
Let's start off. I don't know what my shirt is, but I can I have a really scary shirt that I I I cannot hang like every time that I oh like I'm trying or whatever.
Pete Wright
What about my credit?
Andy Nelson
Excellent.
Roger Fires
I'm gonna put away, oh I'm gonna wear this shirt today. My kids is like, can you put that away?
Andy Nelson
Oh wow, that bad, huh?
Roger Fires
It's uh it's uh Regan's face. So it's kinda like w just the Regan's face with the with the eyes and then yeah, it's quite hot today.
Andy Nelson
Just stare here.
Pete Wright
Oh
Andy Nelson
It was a Jaws Day though, yeah.
Pete Wright
Yeah, Ja's there.
Roger Fires
I'm I'm that guy. I don't go to a rock band like a rock concert with the shirt from the band. I have to set tell everyone that I I
Andy Nelson
Yeah. I like other bands too, okay?
Pete Wright
Your interests are broad. It's okay.
Roger Fires
Great.
Andy Nelson
Oh my gosh. Well, uh fantastic conversation, Roger. Thank you so much for joining us uh today.
Pete Wright
This is great, dude. Yes, thank you very much.
Roger Fires
Thank you guys. It was so fun.
Andy Nelson
Psychokiller, you can uh rent. It's available uh digitally. You can watch it now. And Scrubs, of course, the the reboot is out as well. Any anything coming up that people should be uh watching of your Of your work, Roger. Any any other projects that you can tell us about?
Roger Fires
Yeah, there's uh one project like uh like the twelve year old Roger got really happy to be part of was the reunion of Matthew Broderick and Alan Ruck in a movie called The Best Is Yet to Come. So it's the first time that they did a movie together after 25 years.
Andy Nelson
Oh. Holy cow
Pete Wright
Wow.
Roger Fires
So John Turteltaub directing. So I think it's coming out, I would say at the end of the year. I think it's like in a in a in a post-face, but that was a movie that
Andy Nelson
Okay.
Roger Fires
I as much as I love horror, as much as I love like everything, it's like Safety Not Guaranteed, uh Palm Springs, like those movies. The Peanut Butter Falcon like I love those type of movies.
Andy Nelson
Sure, yeah.
Roger Fires
That's a movie that I would be known for. And The Best Is Yet to Come is one of those really emotional and beautiful movies.
Andy Nelson
Oh
Roger Fires
and having Matthew Broderick and Alan Ruck reunited and to see them acting together and chatting with them and talking stories about Ferris Bueller and and what we're doing with this movie and and John Turteltaub directing. It's a fantastic movie. I can wait for guys to watch.
Pete Wright
Oh my goodness.
Andy Nelson
That is so fantastic.
Pete Wright
Al that Allen Rock is he's he's a sneaky.
Andy Nelson
I can't
Pete Wright
Monkey, I'll tell you what. Just when I think he had like, where has Alan Ruck gone? He shows up in Rooster right now. He's fantastic. I look at his IMDB page. He's got 127 credits. I'm the one who is doing a bad job following Alan Ruck. He's so good and so busy, so busy
Andy Nelson
It's been very busy, yeah.
Roger Fires
Yeah. Yeah. So he's uh it's a movie that I I can't wait and it's really emotional, it's really beautiful, touching, and and it's it's gonna be great.
Andy Nelson
Excellent, excellent. Can people find you out on the socials at all?
Roger Fires
Yeah uh like it's Roger Fires Instagram everywhere so like mostly um mostly on uh Instagram and and
Andy Nelson
Instagram, okay
Roger Fires
Yeah, so just like sh sharing some behind the scenes. I love like uh sharing some stories and uh and things, so it's fun to to share that.
Pete Wright
Following right now
Andy Nelson
Well, we'll put that in the show notes. Uh Roger, again. Thank you so much.
Roger Fires
Thank you
Andy Nelson
If you want to keep watching and listening, here are a few places to go from here. Pete and I covered The Exorcist over on the Next Reel as part of our Ellen Burstyn series. And on Sitting in the Dark, the Scream Team did a whole episode on Demons in Possession, with Lester and Kynan of the Exorcist Minute as guests. They covered the Exorcist, but also Hereditary, The Exorcist III, Poltergeist II, and more. And while we're on the subject, the Exorcist Minute itself is also part of the TruStory FM family, so if you want the full deep dive on the film, go check that out too. Then, if this episode puts you into production design mode, we've got a few earlier movies we like episodes to check out. Kevin Conran on The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai, Andrew McAlpine on The Power of the Dog. Liz Bischof on Sonatine, and Yohei Taneda on Ugetsu. Links to all of those in the show notes. Thanks again to Roger Fires for joining us today. For everyone else out there, we hope you enjoyed the show and certainly hope you like the movie like we do here on Movies We Like. Movies We Like is part of the TruStory FM Network and part of the Next Reel family of film shows. Our theme is Chonklap! by Out of Flux. Find us at trustory.fm and follow @thenextreel on Bluesky, Instagram, and Letterboxd. You can also watch full episodes on the Next Reel YouTube channel. If you'd like to learn about becoming a member of the Next Reel family of film shows, visit trustory.fm slash join. That's T-R-U-S-T-O-R-Y. fm slash join. And if you're enjoying the show, we'd love your rating and review wherever you tune in. See you next time.