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How is artificial intelligence changing the world of maritime shipping and the broader chemical industry supply chain? Victoria Meyer speaks with Per Ostman, VP of Product Management at Veson Nautical, to explore the impact of technology and data-driven solutions on shipping operations. Per shares how Veson Nautical integrates advanced software and AI-enabled workflows to help shipping companies manage complex data, enhance efficiency, and adapt to rapid changes in the marketplace.
Victoria and Per dig into the speed and complexity of shipping data, the importance of system integration, and the role of AI in streamlining tasks like claims handling. The conversation also addresses the human side of technology adoption—how AI is transforming jobs, creating new opportunities, and driving a need for continual learning. With practical advice for industry professionals and real-world examples, this episode offers valuable insight into the intersection of technology, people, and progress in maritime shipping and chemicals.
Victoria and Per explore the following topics:
- Using AI and technology to accelerate maritime operations
- How Veson transforms complex data into actionable supply chain intelligence.
- Using AI to speed up demurrage claims assessment by 300%
- Why AI augments rather than replaces human expertise in shipping.
- Leadership advice for non-traditional career paths
Killer Quote: "Don't sand down the edges of who you are because then you're not being your optimal self and you can direct your optimal self to do just about anything." - Per Ostman
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Creators and Guests
What is The Chemical Show: Where Leaders Talk Business?
Looking to lead, grow, and stay ahead in the trillion-dollar global chemical industry? The Chemical Show - the #1 business podcast for the chemical industry - is your go-to resource for leadership insights, business strategies, and real-world lessons from the executives shaping the future of chemicals. Grow your knowledge, your network, and your impact.
Each week, you'll hear from executives from across the industry - from Fortune 50 to midsize to startups. You’ll hear how they're tacking today's challenges and opportunities, their origin story (what got them here!), how you can take and apply these lessons and insights to your own business and career.
We talk:
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Founder and host Victoria King Meyer is an expert interviewer - who brings out the best in each guest. She gained her industry experience at leading companies, including Shell, LyondellBasell and Clariant. Today, she is a high-performance coach and advisor to business leaders in chemicals and energy, as well as the host of The Chemical Show podcast, and founder of The Chemical Summit.
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Welcome to The Chemical Show, the
podcast where Chemical means business.
I'm your host, Victoria Meyer,
bringing you stories and insights
from leaders driving innovation and
growth across the chemical industry.
Each week we explore key trends,
real world challenges, and the
strategies that make an impact.
Let's get started.
Victoria: Welcome back to The Chemical
Show where Leaders Talk Business.
Today I have the opportunity to speak with
a Per Ostman, who is the VP of product
Management at Veson Veson is a global
leader in developing and implementing
solutions for maritime shipping.
So they are a company that works in
an adjacent, not just to the chemical
industry, but other industries as well.
And Per and I are gonna be talking a
lot about the role of technology and
AI and how it's really influencing
shipping and shippers, and hopefully
making it all better for us.
So Per, welcome to the Chemical Show.
Per Ostman: Oh, thanks for having me.
Uh, thrilled to be here.
Victoria: Yeah, absolutely.
Let's start with your origin story.
How did you get interested in this space?
I.
Per Ostman: Yeah, no, I,
you know, I've been, you know, with
Veson for uh, you know, almost 18
years now, and, you know, entered,
you know, kind of this, you know,
call it the technology space or the
shipping space almost by accident.
in an organization and in, in kind of
an industry that is, I would say kind
of populated and draws in technologists.
So either you majored in computer science
in college or you, come from, you know,
kind of a technical or an analytical
background in some capacity, or,
especially in our kind of industry, right?
You come from a, a
maritime background maybe.
And so, know, we, we have had a lot
of success in, in kind of getting,
great, people from, you know, kind of
the, the US Maritime academies, right?
So they actually have sailing experience
and understand fundamentally, what,
what our software tools need to do.
, I have neither of those backgrounds.
Um, I'm a, I'm a classics major.
And so I come, come at this with maybe
a little bit of a different perspective.
And sometimes maybe a, a more human
perspective in some cases, and in some
cases is, you know, uh, leaning on,
more technical folks to, um, you know,
to, to kind of drive certain things.
But, know, finding, you know, kind
of the balance between, what software
can do, what software should do.
And how those, you know, kind of
sometimes opposing forces result in value
capture for, for us, for humans, right?
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: that are doing the work.
Um, it, it is kind of where I like to sit.
So
Victoria: That's awesome.
Per Ostman: an interesting balance.
Victoria: I bet.
And I think it's great.
I think it's a great example too
of, I, we sometimes think that,
oh, all the people in the chemical
industry and working with chemicals
are chemists and chemical engineers.
And I'm sure you see this in
shipping that you, you must have
worked in a maritime capacity.
But, the reality is good strategic
thinkers, we need people of all kinds
of, uh, backgrounds and diversity
Per Ostman: right, Hey, like,
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: come into Veen or, or
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: industry with
a technical background.
Great.
We'll teach you shipping.
Or come in with a shipping background.
Great, we'll teach you technology.
So it's really not, you know, what
your background is, it's do you
have the capacity to learn something
new, to adjust, to adapt, right, to
take that in, because you know, the
chemical industry, the shipping industry,
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: continues to change and
so can you adapt to that change?
Can you learn something new?
Right?
We're gonna talk about ai.
That's,
a big something new for everyone
and so can you do have that.
That ability to
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: is really critical.
Victoria: Yeah, so I think it's
interesting Just kind of this diversity,
the fact that where you start is
not necessarily where you end up.
And, and I have four daughters,
uh, two of whom are in college.
One who's a recent college grad,
one that's still in high school.
And we were talking about like, as
an engineer, did you do engineering?
And I'm like, I, I can't tell you
that I ever used the multi-variate
calculus and differential equations
and some of the very obscure, um.
gosh, formulas and all the math.
I, I just remember pages and
pages and pages of calculations.
Did I use 'em directly?
No.
Did it help that I understood
what they were trying to
accomplish and how to think?
Yeah, because at the end of the
day, you're learning on the job
from other people, approaching it
in, in the ways that you need to,
and that your company needs you to.
So let's talk a little bit about
Veson, 'cause not everybody's
maybe familiar with you.
Who is Veson nautical?
What do you guys do?
Per Ostman: Um, yeah, so, you know, best
nautical has been around since, uh, 2003.
And really the, the company,
you know, has its roots.
You know, even further back from that,
you know, our founder, John Besson,
uh, his father actually started the
company, making software back in, uh, you
know, back in the good old days, right?
The seventies, the eighties.
And making bespoke, software
tools for, for the industry.
And, you know, this was distance tables.
This was, um, you know, voyage estimation,
fit for purpose tools for specific, you
know, kind of aspects of, of, of shipping.
and, you know, when John.
Uh, it kind of took over, you know, took
the reins over and kind of reconsolidated,
uh, you know, kind of the company,
, in, uh, in the early two thousands.
The value and at the time, and I think is
still the case today, Is taking maybe some
of these disparate kind of point solutions
or systems and actually having a platform.
Right where these roles, these
tools are part of the same toolbox.
They all are natively integrated together.
So what you have is like this
end-to-end foundation where
you can run your business.
And that business specifically
is, you know, kind of the
orchestration of, uh, you know, the
contracts for marine bulk freight.
And that's kind of been our bread and
butter for, you know, the last 20 years.
Victoria: Okay, that makes sense.
And there's obviously,
there is so much data.
Across the shipping industry, right?
Every industry has a lot of data, but
when I think about marine movements
and shipping, I just, I think, you
know, you talk about shipping tables
and stuff, and it's like I have a vague
knowledge that those things exist,
but I know that there's gotta be reams
and reams of data and data points
that somehow you have to make sense
of, in order to be effective and to
improve and to really run businesses.
Per Ostman: Absolutely.
And, and I think that's always, you
know, kind of a constant challenge
for, for, for us and, and you know,
kind of the industry at large, right?
Where, you know, data is extremely
powerful, but there's also so much of it.
And so how do you surface the
right data at the right time?
Shipping is, uh, you know, in, in some
ways a very, very simple business.
But the realities get very complicated and
nuanced and, uh, you know, very quickly.
And I, I think especially kind of in
the chemical trade where you're talking
about parcel tankers and, you know,
it's not, you know, simply an oil tanker
where, you know, give me all the oil
you have and I will take it across.
The ocean.
It is, multiple different charters.
With parcels on a given Vesonel,
um, you know, multiple different
birth call calls at a port.
It's, you know, two weeks
in Houston rotating around.
And that schedule, that birth
rotation changes every five minutes,
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: multiple different factors.
So all of the planning, all of the data
that goes into that planning, there's
insight in there it's hard to extract.
but you have to have a platform
and a system, that can, you
know, kind of help with that.
You know, data and context
surfacing insight and
presenting, user in those roles.
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: owners, right.
Operators with the right
information at the right time.
Victoria: Yeah.
All right.
So I, I'm, I think it's a great topic
and I'm gonna bring it back around,
but let's start with this a little bit.
Per Ostman: Mm-hmm.
Victoria: know, I call, I, I've talked
to a number of people and really called
the 2020s, the decade of supply chain.
I think that average consumer had no idea
what supply chain was until COVID hit.
And they realized, well, that's why
they weren't getting a widget at
Walmart, was because of supply chain.
Right.
Per Ostman: Yeah.
Victoria: and.
Of course there are those that are
in it, living it, chemical companies,
shipping companies, supporters like you.
It's we're in it, right?
We are in this decade of supply chain.
What are you seeing though?
What are you seeing as the biggest
challenges today where we sit in
2025 and going into 26 and beyond?
What are the biggest challenges
that shippers and shipping
companies are facing?
Per Ostman: Yeah, I think it's this, so
it's adjacent to the, the, the data piece.
I think it's the speed of data, I have
all this data, now what do I do with it?
Right?
And.
You know, you have, you know,
situations where schedules change
or you know, there's a lineup at the
port or, or whatever the case may be.
Or, you know, there's a container
ship, you know, going up the Suez
Canal and hitting the wind in the
wrong way, and all of a sudden you
have the need to adapt quickly.
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: And how do those adaptations
that are driven by, you know, folks
in offices, coordinating these
movements, how is that data getting
sent through, up and down that chain,
that logistical chain in the right way?
Are you able to update data like the ETA
of a vessel at a particular location?
Is that information getting to
the first link in that chain?
But then is it also getting to the rest?
Of those links upstream and
downstream, and you know, we
found out how brittle right.
Those links are.
Right.
And can be.
and so I, I think what people are
looking for is more, um, is finding,
you know, kind of the right, way
to strengthen those connections,
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: maintaining the flexibility.
For the adaptation inherent
in, in the industry.
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: it's a big challenge.
Victoria: It is a really big challenge.
I mean, I think as you talk about, it's
both data and relationships, right?
because part of the way companies and
businesses make money is by having
the relationships and knowing a little
bit more about, oh, well, maybe I
can't go from point A to point B,
but I know exactly how to go from.
A to B to D to C, back
to D and make it work.
Um, and so, so that's one of the
things, one of the, the things that
strikes me as well is when you talk
about like these different, um,
pillars of data, let's call it.
That they also seems like they
would be in different systems.
Right.
So I think, I, I mean
that's a challenge, right?
Like how do you get data outta one system
into another system to combine that?
Is that something that you guys do?
I mean, is that what, is that part of
what vests does or are you working in,
alignment with other systems still?
Per Ostman: Uh, kind of both and
Victoria: Okay.
Per Ostman: kind of how I
would answer that question.
I mean, there's a couple of
different pieces to that.
I mean, certainly you'd want to have,
you know, kind of there's no single
software system or software platform
that does absolutely everything in the
Victoria: Yeah, even.
Even though they would like to
tell, some of them would like
to say we're the everything.
Yeah.
Not, not happening.
Yeah.
Per Ostman: exactly.
Um, but we, we, we feel, you know,
kind of where we try to, to, to
sit is we feel that we are best of
breed in kind of the marine space,
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: that, that logistical thing.
But, on either side of kind of our
platform, there will be, you know,
a an ETRM or a CTRM, you know,
kind of a trading and risk, um,
kind of system for the commodity.
Valuing that trade and, and
optimizing those, those, uh,
transportation modalities.
We are the marine transportation modality.
Um, and then, you know, downstream
from us would be, you know, an SAPA
corporate accounting system, right?
And everyone has those, and we don't try
to be necessarily either of those things.
and so the ability to integrate.
Systems together is something that
has been around forever and it's,
it's one of the reasons why we at
Veson have been as successful as we've
been, is our ability and willingness
to integrate with any system.
Um, and so coming back to that
foundational decision 20 years
ago to say, Hey, it's not just
I have a tool for charters.
I have a tool for operators.
I have a tool to do accruals and
for broker, blah, blah, blah, blah.
It's having a common platform that
has a common language for the data.
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: across kind of all of
those roles that common language
not only helps you work together.
Internally at an organization, at a
data level, but also externally, right?
So when you're trying to knit
these systems together, it becomes
very easy and straightforward.
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: we've always done that, but
where that is now going to change, right?
Because the challenge
becomes very, very real.
I need to get this information, not
just, you know, to the places that I've
always, you know, had to get it to.
I gotta get it to all these other places.
And how do we do that in the best way?
Victoria: And faster
and accurately and easy.
Yeah.
Per Ostman: Yeah.
Things are not slowing down.
Right?
They're speeding up.
And so how do we do that in the right way?
And I think this is where AI
starts to come into play, right?
Victoria: Okay.
Per Ostman: use AI for
lots of different things.
One thing that it's very good
at, right, is translation, right?
And that's not just language translation.
That's technical and data translation.
So the mapping exercise between system
A and system B, the AI can do that.
And so when we think about.
What is coming?
What is here now and, and, and you
know, kind of coming, not in and
years, but in weeks and months, right?
Is that ability to say, okay, we want
to integrate these two systems together.
AI is going to in that
connection and make that faster.
Victoria: That's fascinating 'cause
so, you know, when I was at Shell,
what now feels like a long time ago.
I actually left Shell 10 years ago.
Uh, today, I think, um.
Per Ostman: congratulations.
Victoria: Thank you actually.
Thank you.
But it was a great experience and
a great ride while I was there.
But one of the things I did early in
my career was around, implementing
e-business systems, but I also managed
a process excellence and process
enablement group where I, I think
you talk about data mapping, that was
always like, there was data mapping
teams of people for everything because.
It's complicated,
Per Ostman: It's really
Victoria: but, but you see AI as being
able to simplify and streamline that.
Per Ostman: Uh, absolutely.
I mean it, that, that's recognizing
patterns, doing translation, classifying
data, taking, maybe it's unstructured
data, making its structured, and
then manipulating that structure.
That's what AI's really,
really good at right now.
Right.
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: And AI will continue to
evolve, but that's what it is right now.
And there are aspects of every industry.
I mean technology certainly, but you
know, things like, you know, law.
If you think about, you know,
kind of the law industry, I mean.
Very rapidly the days of, you
know, locking 20 junior associates
in a room and highlighting
depositions, like that's gone, right?
All those billable hours are gone, right?
Because the, the AI is,
will do that in 10 minutes.
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: Um, and, and so this,
this, this pace of technology and
harnessing it in the right way,
you know, and focusing it, right?
Like that's, that's the challenge for,
for people in, in, in our industry
and on the technology side and, and,
and kind of across other industries.
Victoria: Yeah.
So I, I, I, and that brings up
two, um, two great questions.
I'm gonna start though with, with
a Veson specific question, which is
around, you guys are doing some work
now, rolling out an AI enabled tool.
Um, you tell us about that.
Per Ostman: Yeah, absolutely.
So we, um, in the spring we launched
our, our kind of first AI enabled
workflow within our platform.
Our claims, uh, it's emerge in
claims, um, uh, kind of workflow.
We've named our AI co-captain.
And so what co-captain
will do, is automate.
kind of the material aspects
of the deme and claims process.
Primarily of this information that
I'm getting from multiple different
sources about a claim, right?
Either I've gotta collect it to
go make a claim, or I'm receiving
all of this information and
someone is making a claim for me.
pulling all that information together
and calculating the claim result, So
all of those different documents in
different formats from different places.
Coming in, all of that data, right?
The contracts that underpin and govern,
the, the guardrails around, you know,
what can be claimed, what clauses are
there, all the deductions, et cetera.
But pulling all that information in, which
today is entirely manual and it's, you
know, akin to, the law doc review example.
You know, it's people like
printing out PDFs and looking for
stuff, That is a great use case
for what AI is good at today.
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: recognition, that, you
know, kind of pulling that information
in, classifying and structuring it
and then presenting it in a system
that a human can say, oh, that's.
That's the right clause.
Or Hey, this data point is
incorrect coming in from this
agent, or whatever it is, and now
I can move this forward, right?
Or here
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: calculation, that's
gonna drive my p and l and
effectiveness a certain way.
I need to know that I
need to raise a flag.
Or, Hey, this claim isn't worth my time.
I'm gonna move on.
Right.
Victoria: So what's the
response been to this?
Per Ostman: There's, the response
has been, uh, extremely positive.
Um, and we're, we're, we're,
we're very excited about it.
We've had, you know, kind of a
number of our, uh, of our client
base, um, you know, start to adopt,
kind of the workflow and co-captain,
which has been really exciting.
We've, um.
You know, one of the things that has
always made us successful is, you
know, working hand in glove with,
you know, key clients and we, we've
had a few, in this case as well.
And so they've helped to drive and,
and guide us as we've built this out
because we never, you know, I think
you get, you where things get, you
know, a little dangerous is where you
try to build something that, uh, that
isn't driving value for someone, right?
So doing it for the sake
of doing it is great.
You want to have innovation in
that way, but you wanna focus it
right towards a value capture.
And we, we were lucky enough to,
to have a great, you know, client
community that helps us do that.
Victoria: That's awesome.
So, so this leads to the question I
really have, which is around people.
So when you talked a little bit
about co-captain, you referenced
the human intervention part,
Per Ostman: Mm-hmm.
Victoria: me.
The scary thing in, um, as people
express what they're worried about with
AI and, you know, open a newspaper,
well, nobody say what a newspaper,
go online and look at your news.
Um, and, you know, headlines are
around how AI is taking jobs and stuff.
So there's this whole aspect of
getting people to accept the use of it,
and, and understanding
how it fits into roles.
Jobs thinking what they do.
What do you see with that?
Because I think, you know, that's a, a big
tension around the effectiveness of this.
Per Ostman: Yeah, no, and, and I think
this is, this is the same tensions
that's existed for, you know, the
last couple hundred years, right?
Around new technologies, new
like the industrial Revolution.
This was the right, this
is the same tension.
Um, and it's here today
and I think we all feel it.
Our posture on this, right, is
to be kind of deliberate, right?
And I think where you, because again,
just make, you know, AI is a tool like
any other tool, and you can use it
for the right reasons or you could use
it for the, the wrong reasons, right?
If you're, know, kind of taking
a, a, a perspective of, oh,
well AI can do everything.
Well, it can, but a hammer can
open a window, but only once.
Right?
So you gotta use the right
tool, right, for the right job.
And so what we've tried to do,
and, and I, you know, kind of with
co-captain and the claims workflow,
this is a great example of, of that
and of us living this is let's, use
this new tool right do something
that really, really drives value for.
The users, right?
Does that claims analyst wanna spend a day
and a half like looking through charter
party documents and chasing an agent to
get an updated statement of facts, to do a
calculation that will then kind of affect
the p or should that be automated so that
this, analyst can leverage relationships
with that agent, relationships with
a counterparty on the claim, right?
To actually
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: in the right way.
And so it's not.
I think people are like,
oh, will AI replace my job?
Right?
Is really kind of the right
across industry isn't all of this?
And you know, I think what we try to do
is how can we improve, and enhance kind
of the, the lives of the, of the users
that we have in our platform, right?
So it's not, we don't wanna
replace, but there are things
that we can automate, right?
There are things that we can, data
that we can surface and illuminate.
Uh, to help people make better
decisions and to help those same
users do their job in a better way.
Victoria: Yeah.
And I, I, I agree with you
and I think it's, um, it's
back to, its enabling, right?
And, and so enables you to
go do something else like,
to your point, do we really wanna spend
a day and a half just digging through
documents and highlighting the three lines
that matter into this claim, or understand
the search and, and put it in and have
the system come out so I can evaluate it.
And you still need to human to
intervene to make decisions to direct.
So I think there's, it's
not taking away jobs.
It's changing maybe what you're doing.
Per Ostman: it's changing, right?
It it, and it's a, it, it's, it's,
it's not replacing, it's enhancing.
And, and I'll, I'll give you kind of
an example of this, and it's not, you
know, kind of directly related to ai,
but it is, it is technology I was in,
about a year and a half ago, Veson
nautical and, and a couple of other
technology companies, uh, were invited
to participate in a summit, with some.
leading chemical carriers,
and chemical producers.
And kind of the purpose of this
summit was like, Hey, how can we use
technology to solve some of the, we
all have the same problems, right?
How can we use technology to solve some
of these problems right around, you know,
birth rotation and, and, and kind of, uh,
scheduling and, and all of these things.
And, you know, we sat in a room
together and we had some really,
really good conversations for two days.
And the major outcome of all of those
discussions, and again, this was how can
we use technology to solve these problems?
The outcome of that summit was in
agreement for these carriers and
these chemical producers to pick up
the phone and talk to each other more
so.
It is not like we, we, technology
doesn't have to be, again,
tool like anything else.
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: have to do everything,
and it probably shouldn't.
And so our challenge, as you know,
a technology provider and a and a
technology partner focusing that
technology where it should be
Victoria: Yeah, I think it's,
I think it's a great example.
In fact, it's funny because I think,
the next generation as it comes up.
I mean, I see this with my kids,
I see this with young adults.
They don't wanna pick up the phone.
Oh, do I really have
to talk to that person?
Can't I just go on the app or
send a message or whatever?
Yes, you do.
Now, by the way, I'm a lot older than
them and I still at times like, do I
really have to talk to this person?
Can't you make it easier?
So there are some situations where, yes,
I wanna actually talk to the individual.
And then there's others where
I'm like, just give me the app.
It's gonna take me.
Two minutes to do it and move on.
So, um, yeah.
Per Ostman: in, in the lower left
quadrant of, of technology and AI
and kind of all of the, what it can
do is it can wall you off, right?
You can create kind of the
constructs around you so that you
actually don't have to interact
on a human level with somebody.
Right.
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: You can, you can hide behind
the screen and you know, when we think
about like ai, oh, what can AI do?
Oh, AI can write the email for me.
I can have an AI composer
and write my email.
is that really the right application
of this incredibly powerful technology?
you can write an email like
you know how to do that, right?
And what's actually more
important about that?
Not that you can or can't
write an email or, or send a
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: or whatever, but
is it you sending that email?
Is it you communicating?
Is that your style and your
personality and your, you know,
your essential humanity kind of.
You know, coming through that
communication, that relationship that
you have with the other person who's
receiving that, you know, is important.
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: we all decide
that it's not right.
And that's, you know, that's
a science fiction novel.
Victoria: Yeah, I, I will admit,
I do a lot of, um, I use chat
GPT way more than I ever used to.
Per Ostman: yeah.
Victoria: and I do use it to help with
Right communications, but not completely.
But it's like, okay,
this is the situation.
This is what I wanna summarize,
gimme some ways of framing it.
And I will go back and say like,
that does not sound like me.
Oh, you're right.
And then, you know, 'cause it's
how it always tells me I'm right.
There's something nice about
that, by the way, because I
get told I'm wrong a lot too.
Um, but I think this whole, you, you
can't just rely on the technology.
You have to still personalize
it, understand its impact,
what you're trying to achieve,
because it does not know nuance
Per Ostman: Right.
Victoria: anything, whether it's data
nuance or, or verbal nuance or anything.
It doesn't know nuance.
Per Ostman: it doesn't, and, and it,
there is, there, there's art and science
Victoria: Yeah,
Per Ostman: business is the
marriage of those two things.
If it was just, if you could
just do it by reading a book.
Everyone would do that,
Victoria: right.
Per Ostman: And everyone would read
the summary of that book on chat, GPT,
Victoria: There you go.
Per Ostman: was that simple, right?
Everyone would be a billionaire.
And that's just not how it works,
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: is, there is an art
to literally everything that we do
and AI's not gonna replace that.
Victoria: Awesome.
So final question.
Let's talk about leadership.
I would like to, ask my guests this.
Because I think the answers are great.
Um, and, and there's a lot of people
that listen to the podcast, that
listen sitting in the chemical show
and they're like, oh yeah, I really
like knowing about you, the person, how
you got there and how you've evolved.
But my question is this.
So as someone with a non-traditional
background in chemicals and shipping.
What advice would you give to someone
looking to break into the industry or
you know yourself when you were just
starting in this space 18 years ago?
What do you wish somebody had
told you at that point in time?
Per Ostman: I, I guess
Victoria: I.
Per Ostman: there are two
things that I, that I would say.
one, I think don't be afraid the
things that make you unique, you
come into any industry, right?
The things that make you unique are also
the things that make you effective, right?
Don't stand down the edges of who you
are because then you're not, right?
You're not being your optimal self
and you can direct your optimal
self to do just about anything, so
you're not gonna be effective if
you try to be like everybody else.
Being, being unique, being
different is important.
We want a diversity of perspectives.
That's what helps drive
industries forward.
That's what makes companies successful.
agreed all the time and had the
same perspective, that would not
be a landscape that we'd want.
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: think the other, the other
thing that I would say is pick the things
you care about and care about them deeply.
you can't care about
everything all of the time.
but find the things that make you
passionate and care about those
things right within the business,
within your career, within the
industry that you're working in.
there should be things that, that
you care about very, very deeply.
And then there's some other things
that you can let go, and let's not
be emotional about those things,
Victoria: Yeah.
Per Ostman: but pick the
things you care about.
Victoria: Love it.
Great advice.
Great advice.
P, thank you so much for joining me today.
I've really appreciated and
enjoyed our conversation.
Per Ostman: Absolutely.
Uh, thanks so much for having me.
Victoria: Absolutely, and
thanks everyone for listening.
Keep listening, keep following,
keep sharing, and we will
talk with you again soon.
Thanks for joining us
today on The Chemical Show.
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