The Dialog

A friend of ours was talking with an atheist who said he could never believe in a God who allows slavery and all the other evil people do to each other. Our first question back: you've named the problems, so what are you doing to fix them?

My dad has always said, "Whatever you blame controls you." That sounds bad. But a lot of people prefer to be controlled by what they can't control, because if it's not your fault, the fix is not your responsibility either.

In this episode, my co-host Nick Surface and I talk about blame, fault and responsibility: the problem of evil, what to do with a dark week, why blaming your parents or the economy leaves you waiting on circumstances you can't control, and where meaning comes from. Nick also tells the story of a defining moment in his 20s, when he decided not to hand off ownership of his life.

Does it matter whose fault it is?
To an extent. But the more time you spend finding blame, the more you end up on the side of "I can't control this." Fault and responsibility always go hand in hand. As Nick puts it, even if it really was 100% your parents' fault, nothing changes until you take ownership.

Why would anyone choose to be powerless?
Because power comes with responsibility. Blame everything on what you couldn't control, and the only way things change is if circumstances change. Say "it's my fault," and you also get to say "it's my responsibility." That's where the fix starts.

If God is good, why is there so much evil?
The evil that atheist described is what people do to other people. The human heart is desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9). The cause is not the solution. The solution is Jesus, who changes who you are from the inside out.

How do you find meaning and purpose?
Zig Ziglar said don't be a wandering generality, be a meaningful specific. Take on more responsibility and find someone to add value to.

Scripture
Jeremiah 17:9

People and ideas
Josh's dad: "Whatever you blame controls you"
Zig Ziglar: wandering generality or meaningful specific

Chapters
0:00 Cold open and show intro
0:53 Why blame is never the answer
2:02 If God allows evil, what are you doing about it?
2:36 The problem of evil is people (Jeremiah 17:9)
4:41 Without God, who decides what's evil?
5:42 Philosophy is reasoning with yourself
6:07 Getting through a hard week
7:43 The burden of knowing what to do
9:38 Wandering generality or meaningful specific?
11:16 Mental health and how you decide to think
11:56 Struggling? Go add value to someone
12:56 Ownership and Nick's defining moment
15:33 Whatever you blame controls you
16:46 Why we'd rather be powerless than powerful
18:53 How we're conditioned to be told what to do
20:16 Is this the life you want?
22:10 Your struggle becomes your kids' testimony
22:56 Give away responsibility, give away power

Previous: 1.37 / How do you stop negative self-talk?
Next: 1.39 / What do you do with feedback you don't want?

New episodes most weeks.
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Go to my website / https://jkc.is

What is The Dialog?

Ancient philosophers used the dialog to find answers to life’s greatest questions. The Dialog is a search for truth in modern life through the lens of ancient philosophy, history, and theology. This podcast will challenge your assumptions, change your thinking and show you how to master modern living.

No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world. I'm interested in one thing, the future, and believe me, I know the only way. To get there is together. What we've got here is failure, milk cake. You may think you know what tribut, but believe me, you don't what the truth. You can't handle the truth. For centuries, philosophers have used the dialogue to search for truth, because it's through conversation, through the logos, that we find it. This is the dialogue where ancient philosophy, history and theology meet modern life. Together, we'll wrestle with big questions and give our answers to the way we live. Let's start the conversation. I don't think blame is ever the answer, and if. You spend too much time fixated on why you blame right. I was talking to a friend of ours today actually, and he was asking me he's in this conver he's having some kind of conversation with an atheist, and this atheist is like, you know, that's great that you believe in God, and you believe God blesses you, and you know, blah blah blah, But I can't believe in a god who allows like rape to happen, slavery to happen, all this bad stuff to happen, and so that that what that person's looking for is someone to blame for human problems. All those problems are created by human being. He's not talking about natural disasters, he's not talking about acts of God. He's talking about things that people do to other people. So my conversation with our friend was, you know, it's kind of an adversarial discussion. So I don't really necessarily have those people like I like it's like our podcast. I don't want to have debates, you know, I want to have actual dialogue where people are open to hear. Idea. Saying that statement means I'm really not open to the idea of God. But it's cool that you, as a small minded person believe in that, right. But I'm like higher minded, I'm and they're So my number one question to people that have that say that kind of stuff is Okay, I get it, there's all these problems in the world. You feel like God's not fixing them. I'd like to know what you're doing about them. Well, I would ask them, where did you get the Where did you get the idea that that God shouldn't allow any of those. Yeah, well, I. Think the first question is you've identified problems, what are you doing to fix them? Well, I don't do anything about slavery. I don't do anything about kids being mistreated. But you know someone should, right. So it's moralizing and like grand standing for me to for me to say there's all these problems in the world that God should be fixing, but I'm the one that's living here having to watch this happen. Right. But the second thing, the second thing to me is looking at human problems. So when you believe in God, and you believe in like, let's say, Biblical Christianity or Christian ethic, what comes with that is the understanding that the problem of evil in the world is people. It's not the devil, it's not a bunch of other stuff. Jeremiah seventeen says, the human heart is desperately wicked. So there's a solution to that evil. Right, there's a cause for that evil, which is us. The cause is not the solution. The cause is not or the solution is not. Well, we committed original sin as human beings, so now we should stop sinning. The solution is Jesus. The solution is Jesus came. He wants to transform your heart. He wants to change who you are as a person from the inside out. So if more people, and this is what I was saying to our friend, if more people had a relationship with God and followed Jesus, the world would be less evil and so much of the world's much better now than it was even two hundred years ago or a thousand years ago. Right, we're moving in the right direction, and a lot of moving in the right direction has to do with the advancement of the Christian ethic in the world. Whether someone wants to disagree with that or not, it's just reality. Right, Slavery was ended by Christians. Christians are Christianity, and the Church throughout the history of the world has done more for social services and helping people than any other entity that's ever existed. That's like beyond to even debate. That is like beyond proof. It's it's so so. That's the thing about Christianity is this idea that, Okay, there's evil in the world, there's problems of evil. God's the solution to that. And the more we lean into God, the less evil we can become on this side of eternity. Well, if you're an atheist and you see what people do as evil, we've we've now agreed, Like, if you're an atheist, I'm not. We agree that people are evil and do evil things to each other. The problem is I have a solution to that. You don't, Well, and. You have to ask somebody if you don't believe in any god. Like, what makes that evil? Yeah, because surely there has to be somebody that defines what's just and right. So you're so. You you and you, and it's it's on both sides of that equation because on one hand, you think that God is going to God, if he does exist, is going to subscribe to your morality. Yeah, yeah, that's really what it is, self exaltation. On the other hand, in your mind, God doesn't exist, So what's So, what's the fix for the evil in the world where there just is no fix, there's no way for us to fix it. It's just a crappy, horrible world that we live in. Well, I can't. I can't subscribe to that unless they catch you in that one week whenever that comes in where you're already in that. Yeah, Well, That's probably what would help me pull out of it is dealing with an idiot. So what we need to deal with I'm. Here in a funk. You just send me a text like nine one one. I'll send it to your house. Send me yes, send me like a person who wants to foolishly debate things. That's that's maybe in your friend. Yeah, send me a person who wants to debate why we should be nihilists. And then I'll go, you know what. I don't have time to be I don't. We got to get on the positive side, solve your problem. But that's but that's what to me, that's what like philosophy is is me sitting there with myself and discussing with myself. It's not like a discussion in terms of lot of but you're reasoning. Yeah, me, me reasoning with myself about how unreasonable I am being right and taking the time to be able to do that, and having people around me honestly understand that, like Courtney with me. You know what I told her this week because I just kind of had some of that happen this week in my own life, and she said this to me this week, which I feel like was an amazing gift to me, and that's like She's like, well, i'd prefer that you just wouldn't say anything to me at all, and you just work through that and let me know you're working through that, rather than you ever be like mean or negative towards the family. And I've never been that way, like towards my family. But because my thing in talking to her was like, yeah, I've had this deal and I've tried really hard, you know, I said, I don't want that to affect our relationship because I'm more real with Courtney than I'm going to be with my kids, right, I don't want that to affect our relationship. I've tried really hard not to come across any of this way to our kids, but I'm just I've just had to deal with this this week. And so when we went to dinner last night, she was like, you know, it's fine, Like, I don't take that personal. We've been married for twelve years or almost twelve years. I don't take that personal, and I'd rather you just be quiet and be disengaged. And because I'm like sitting there, I'm telling her, you know, I know it doesn't make sense, but I'm like internally navigating this conversation. Yeah, and I don't have a lot of energy for anything else. And she's like, well, that's that's okay. But the truth is it's only okay as much as I'm willing to be healthy, right, And so I can't stay there, And that's that's the thing is I have to give myself really enough mental time and space to be able to navigate my way through that. And now I have. I've spent a lot of my life developing the tools that give me the ability to have a conversation with myself and fix it because no, I know too much. The problem with like getting leadership and being in rooms of development, like the problem of even like Christianity for instance, Like people come to church, they hear all the Bible, they know everything there is to know. And the problem with that is you can you can just side to not. Access any of that. Right, we have the and you have the burden of knowledge. You can't say I didn't know. Can't say I don't know. Yeah, but at the same time, you don't really care. So for me, someone coming in and telling me, hey, here's what you need to do. You need to get more positive, or here's the playbook or here's how you get out of this. I'm like, you know what, I don't need you talking right now. I know all that stuff already. Yeah I don't. I don't. I'm not asking for your help. So the only person that can navigate me out of that is well me and God. Yeah. But I think I think you touched on like that you said, I don't care. I think we can may start the head for home here, but like clearly you care enough to not put it on your kids and your wife, And so that level of careness, as your dad would say, is like is what kind of keeps you aware of it? Right? Because because I think that that's the that's where the I. Think like if you were on your own, like imagine you didn't have a wife and kids, and like you were just left to your own devices. So I think it's so it's so dangerous for people to be able to just isolate themselves and live in their own little bubble and and you know, whatever they think is it's unchallenged. That's a really dangerous place to be. And I think like self awareness, like I said, I think it's a skill that's highly underrated. And the more you get aware of like your emotions being indicators, right, like you talked about you know that those things are coming around because it's like you talked about, how other people it's like they'll have an internal monologue with themselves and they'll just be like, man, that really made me mad or like like you know the story stuff like this man, this guy did this thing today made me so mad, And you're like really and so, like I tell my kids, I'm like, no one can make you mad. You know what, No, you you because of the way you think you've You've assigned, like you said, you've assigned some value to this that has generated that emotion. Well, it's like zig Zigler said, don't be a wondering generality, be a meaningful specific h I haven't heard that, oh like that. So most people live their life and their wondering generalities right right, And what I mean by that is they don't mean anything specific to anybody, and they don't want to right right. Like, So they don't get married, they don't have kids, they don't have any formal responsibility, they don't serve anybody, they don't make their life about anybody except themselves, and then they wonder why they don't have any meaning and purpose, right. So the thing that you know and that this is like a lot of the conversation I have with myself when I enter this state is like, you don't have the luxury to be this way. So yeah, man, you know, you got to deal with your crap. And this is a you know, it was way worse when I was younger, way worse, you know. So now it's like you got to deal with this, man, because there's you have responsibilities, like you have people that you're counting on, Like I know this this is you know, I want to be sensitive to even myself. But at the same time, like your wife's taking care of two twins that you're just born. They're six weeks old. You have all this responsibility with your kids. You can't slay in bed. Yeah you got you got fifteen coaching calls, you got to have this week, you got all this stuff that's going on. You got to preach, you gotta do this, you gotta do that. So let's yeah, you can do it. I mean, I love what Jim runs too, So do it. You do it, easier to do it hard, just get it done. So for me, I go, okay, well you know we'll get healthy on the way because I can't if you if you understand the dynamic of having responsibility, which I think most people don't, especially in the Western world. Man, when people really talk about struggling with this stuff, like again, I I navigate it, right, I have to deal with it in my own life. But I'm not giving myself permission to be depressed, you know. And it's not that I don't believe in that. It's just what a what a great first world problem to have, Dude, It really is right that you can sit here and be like, woe is me, and you can spend all this time thinking about yourself and no time thinking about anybody else. And I'm and I know that's insensitive to people that struggle with like true mental health things and stuff like that. And there's real biology and chemistry and all of that, But what transcends to me personally, what transcends all of that is how you decide to think. And what I always would I always tell people that, like, man, I'm just struggling with this or I'm struggling with that, is you need to get a lot more responsibility. You need to find a way to be more meaningful and the way to be more meaningful is to figure out who you need to go add value to, like you need to go on a missions trip. Like for me, people that I've known that are that really go, I'm just struggling them in a depressed time. The number one thing I see is the other thinking about. Is themselves big time. Right. So, Hey, what I want you to do is I want you to schedule a missions trip to Nigeria, or I want you to go to to Uganda, or I want you to go to China, or I want you to go somewhere where you can see what people deal with or go to go to anywhere in America, go to skied Row in America, go see what people deal with that don't have the luxury of being depressed, and then come back and let me know about your depression. Right. And so there's you know, there's outliers to that. I'm not a I'm not a trained psychologist. Doctor Brittany would probably be like, hey, wait, hang on, just. Yeah, but dude, what you're talking about, though, man is ownership and and I and I do think it's it's perspective, like if you because you know, like you're saying in like seventeen hundreds where it was like, hey, what are you gonna do today? I'm gonna survive. Not many people were going like, you know what. I just don't know if this really matters to me anymore, because now we have like survivals assumed, and we have the comfort like what we said. But like when I remember there's this moment, it's so funny because like my friend who did this is completely forgotten about it, but for me, it's like a defining moment in my life. So I was depressed for and like alcohol dependent. And I say alcohol dependent because the only time I felt anything was when I drank, which was why I drank, which I remember, Man, I remember being so relieved. I'm like, oh, it's just nice to feel like that was a real thought I had. It feels like a whole other person man to think about that. This was in my twenties. Maybe maybe I'll join you in the whole twenties suck train. But we're not there anymore. In twenties, yeah, raise the Lord. But so I remember I'd been down, and like not a lot of people like I don't think rein realized how bad it was. Meverhrick, I know she didn't, and not a lot of people really knew because like in England, you don't really talk about stuff like you just you know, stiff upper lip, Just shove it down there, It'll be all right. And and so like I remember my buddy, like I talked him a little bit about just how just down I was. So he got me this pamphlet on depression and he gave it to me, and it was like a carrying thing to do. It's like one of my best friends over there, and he's a guy that I'm still close with over there. I remember I read through this pamphlet, dude, and and Josh, it was all on offer for me come in, like and the language in the pamphlet was still like. You have a disease. It was like I caught depression at the County Fair and like what I realized, I'm depressed this but dude, but think about what a lucid thought this is. I'm depressed, bro, I don't feel anything. And like I'm focused on myself. Everything you just said that was me, Like I the mission strip. I probably needed that, man, because I just tried to fill up my own cup, like, oh, I need to drink to make myself feel something, because that's gonna make me feel like it's just such a you know, Praise the Lord, I've married such an amazing wife. To put up with that. But I remember reading this pamphlet, dude, and even though I was really jacked up, I had this such a moment of clarity to be like, if I do what this pamphlet's telling me and I go into this clinic or wherever they were saying I could go, I'm basically handing off all the ownership because what I was really clear on they were basically going to come in and say, hey, you can't help this, Like this is a really tough thing. You have this disease. We're going to give you some stuff, but like this isn't your fault. Like it was so. Carrying and nurturing of the wrong things. I remember I read it, and I'm praise God that this was definitely God kind of going, Okay, he's mine. I'm gonna protect him. Like I can't put it down to anything else, but dude, I remember in that moment, I was like, I can't go down that because if I go down that road, I can't come back. That's honestly how I felt, and I was so clear about it. Man, I'm like, I get chills talking about because it was like a defining moment in my life. Well, my dad's always said whatever you blame controls you, you know, and that sounds bad, but a lot of people prefer to be controlled by what they can't control. Right, So when you're told you have this issue and it's not really your fault, well, the great news is it's not your responsibility. To fix it. That's an easy way out. Right, So it's not your fault, which means the fix is not your responsibility. What we need to do and this is like this is this happens in all kinds of different rooms. Like this happens when ever people go, well, I was raised by a narcissist, which has become like a really normal thing to talk about. Everyone's a narcissist. You know, every parent that millennials had was a narcissist. Right, They're just awful, right, And and that's the reason why, Yeah, that's the reason why I I'm irresponsible and I'm a mess and I. Have really bad problem because my parents were narciss and my parents are narcissist, and well, the great news is The great news about figuring out whose fault it is is that you're not responsible to fix it. So hey, just go know, contact with your parents, that'll fix your life. Yeah, definitely, right. Just cut out anybody who hurts your feelings, toxic people, Josh, Yeah, because guess what, your feelings aren't your fault. And whenever it's not your fault, it's not your responsibility either. So fault and responsibility always go hand in hand. So if I sit there and this is like ultimately my conversation, that's what self awareness. I think people don't want to be self aware. I think that's like fundamentally, at the end of the day, as an adult, you've been given many opportunities to become self aware and you're just not taken them because subconsciously, I think the problem with self awareness is you now have to realize how much of your life is your fault something about it, and how much of it is also your responsibility. So people, what's crazy to me, man, is people would prefer to be powerless then to be powerful. And what I mean by that is whatever whatever I blame controls me, right, So whatever I blame has all. The power in my life. What most people would prefer to do is blame everything in their life on something they couldn't control, on external situations, on their parents, on the boss, on the whatever, on the culture, on the economy, on all that. And so the great news is that, I guess the good news of that is that when you do that, the only way to get changed to happen is if circumstances completely change that you also can't control. Yeah, maybe you'll get lucky, but. Buthay Man, you're powerless, so you just have to sit here and life sucks. But then on the other hand, yeah, okay, So on the other hand, when you go, you know what, it's my fault, then you go, oh, it's my responsibility. So I am not. So I look at my life and I go, well, I am I'm my fault right what I'm What I mean by that is my state of being like how I am, and whatever whatever the causes are, whatever the dynamics are, whatever the blame could be, I'm going to do as much as I can to take as much responsibility for myself. Yeah, so that I can work on the fix the fixing it. Yeah, it doesn't work any other way because if I yeah, so I would rather sit there. And that's where I'm saying, like going and finding blame and fixing fault and figuring out why it matters to an extent, But for me personally, it doesn't matter a lot because the more the more a person does that, the more they're getting on the side of I can't control this. Yeah, And you're right though, I mean I think I think just that kind of sheds light on it because for me, what's interesting is that is that we uh, I think about these from the macro level, because what I find so fascinating about human beings is we're so conditionable. And so I always I'm very from a young age like I think, I know this is maybe God's one percent in me. I've always been conscious of what's being developed in me that wasn't meant to be developed in me. So like, for example, I grew up in a house, right, my parents tell me everything to do. Okay, great, just listen to your parents. That's how you have a good life. Go to school, do what they tell you. That's how you have a good life. Then when you get eighteen something, it's like you can do whatever you want. You're like, wait, what you've had eighteen years of people telling you, like if your parents haven't raised you to be independent, or you don't have some strong like natural obstinence in you, or you know, whatever you call it, whatever, you haven't been exposed to people who have helped you with that, Maybe you'll go to college. Why because once again you get told to do well. Then when you get out, man, I need a job to tell me what to do. And like, I don't think people realize how much they're conditioned that way, and so we have these thought process I was listening to one today talking about people who have gambling addict on another podcast I enjoy, and he was like, it's through no fault of their own, and I'm like, dude, through every fault of their own because because like you said, it doesn't matter if someone brought them up and said, like, let's say it was let's say like undeniably you could say this was one hundred percent of my parents' fault. The answer is still the same, like you said, until you decide to take ownership of what you have, it doesn't change. It because the question is is this the life you want? Yeah? Well, like yeah, that's I mean, you know what I'm saying. I mean, you're you get this, You get this one shot, bro, like you get you get this, like this is your one well maybe not your one marriage, but for me, like this is your one go round. Yeah, And this is how you want it to be, is that you live that, You live that out, not fixing anything, not helping anything move forward, just being a victim of circumstance. And that's why God created you, to put you on the earth, so you could be victimized by life and then hopefully go to heaven and have all your trauma healed. I just can't that at the end of the day, for me, I can't subscribe to that. I can't look at my life and go, you know, this is just it and everything's garbage and it all sucks. It's like no, like I have responsibilities, I have things that I've taken on, but I also can live a great life. And that's going to go back to the Zig quote, right, it's I'm not going to be a wandering generality. I'm gonna I'm gonna try my best to become a meaningful specific and go, you know what, the reason why, no matter how I feel about myself, right, And that's that's what you're saying, and that's what you're saying about your own life. I think I think probably if you if you would have had kids right back when you were dealing that you wouldn't have been in that. Little different Yeah, because because kids are more selfish than anybody. That's great about kids. It's just the truth. I always think for selfish people have a kid because they're the only person Like, kids are the only people that will be more selfish than you, and you need it, you need someone. To overpower you. So the thing is what's helped me deal with that is having responsibilities, is going you know what I can't if I'm going to be a good dad and not cause damage to my kids that they would have to deal with. I can't be this way, and I have to deal with that, not like push it down. I have to deal with it and learn to solve the problems, learn to navigate through the dynamic, even if it keeps coming up over and over again in my life. Because that's the testimony. Like one day when my kids are older and they struggle with stuff, or as they grow it's like them, I'll be able to say, look, man, I've struggled with the same kind of stuff. I've had to navigate the same kind of things and have you. And the opportunity, hopefully that I get to have with them is to tell them, Hey, have you ever seen me project that on everybody? Yeah, Like, here's what I've carried, Here's what I've had to navigate. Like, once they're at a maturity level, we can have that conversation. Have you ever seen me just blow up my life because of all the craft that was happening. No, we don't do that. The way that we roll is we know how important we are to other people's hell, to the state of the earth. We know how much power we have within ourselves to determine our experience and even you know, to me, man, honestly, even if none of what I'm saying is true and we're all just victims of circumstance, I would prefer to be delusional, Like I would prefer to be a delusional person who thinks that I really can control myself. Then live on the side of life that's like, you know what, it's just you're just sol man. It just sucks, it's all bad, it's all awful. Just forget about the whole thing, you know, And when we choose to when we choose to fall victim to circumstance. Right, we give our, we give our, we give our responsibility and respond. Responsibility can be a heavyweight to carry for give our power away, but when you give responsibility a way, you also give power away and that's that's what comes with it. Thank you for listening to the dialogue. Make sure to like, share and subscribe, and also if you think someone else would enjoy this, please send it to them. If you want to get in touch or learn more about me, what I think, speak and write, you can go to Joshuacraft dot com or you can also follow Nick and I on Instagram. Our handles are in the show notes. We'll see you next time.