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Comms In Question is a quarterly podcast from Curious Public, a strategic communications and narrative firm. Each episode examines a timely issue through a communications lens, bringing together diverse perspectives to challenge assumptions and clarify what it means for leaders and organizations. Expect thoughtful debate and practical takeaways you can use right away.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Hi everyone, Steve Paikin here. For 19 years, I hosted a program on TVO called The Agenda, and these days, I am keeping the conversation going on the Paikin Podcast. Please like and subscribe.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Happy to be back with Curious Public as guest hosts for this special limited run of their Comms and Questions series. We call it Canada's Brand Abroad.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: It is, of course, a timely subject. Not long ago, Prime Minister Mark Carney put it pretty bluntly on the world stage. The old order is not coming back. Nostalgia and hope are not a strategy. Regardless of your politics, that seems to resonate with most Canadians.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Today, countries are looking at global alliances, supply chains, energy, and technology through an entirely new lens. Our governments are forming new partnerships and deals that our businesses will have to execute
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: on the ground. To succeed abroad, Canadian leaders still need to understand the market in front of them, the culture, the regulations, the media landscape, the business relationships, the assumptions that travel well, and of course, the ones that don't. And that is what this series is all about.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Today, in our first episode, Making Waves Across the Pond, we are looking at the United Kingdom and Ireland, two countries with whom we share a language, deep historical ties, long-standing political and economic relationships, but familiarity can be misleading and costly. So.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: What do Canadian businesses really need to know to make waves in the UK and Ireland? We have four great guests today who will tackle that subject, so let's get going.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Hari Srinivas is president of the Ethnic Channels Group. It is the world's largest ethnic broadcaster. Harry steered ECG from inception through to where it is today, a partner to dozens of global media groups.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: and the producer of more than 100 television channels in more than 20 languages worldwide. He also serves on Curious Public's Advisory Board, for which the team tells me, Harry, they are very grateful. Thank you for joining us, Harry. Come on in and say hi.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: Thanks for having me, Steve.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Excellent, lovely to meet you.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Ann-Marie O'Sullivan is an award-winning global communications and public relations expert who has spent more than three decades shaping the Irish communications landscape. Based in Cork, Ireland, she is the founder and chief executive of A.M. O'Sullivan PR,
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: and the past president of IPREX, an international network of communications agencies committed to helping one another understand regional differences
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: market dynamics, and the complexities of cross-border business. Anne-Marie has delivered high-level strategic counsel to global giants across tech, life sciences, energy, and education. Anne-Marie, come on in and say hi.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: Hi, Steve, delighted to be.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: There you are.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: Thank you.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Lovely to meet you. Oh my god, I love that accent. Say anything. Just say anything.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: We love Canada, Steve.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: There we go, love that, love that accent back. Joseph Pickerill is here. He has more than 20 years' experience working at the intersection of policy, politics, and communications, and serves as Senior Director, Global Strategic Communications at the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Joseph is an expert in global affairs, having served in notable roles such as Director of Communications to Canada's Foreign Minister, Strategic Communications Officer for the U.S. Department of State, and International Strategic Director of an established technology company. Joseph, great to have you with us today.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Great to be here, Steve, thank you.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Thank you. Hey, your accent's okay.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Not as good as Anne-Marie's, I gotta say.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Jennifer Beckerman is the Senior Public Affairs and Communications Leader who has spent 20 years supporting senior officials, politicians, and corporate leaders across government and diplomacy. She is the Executive Director and Private Secretary to the Policy Chair at the City of London Corporation, serving as Chief of Staff for the 800-year-old institution.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Jennifer has also served as Director of the Executive Office at the High Commission of Canada in London, UK, as Director of Communications at the Hertie School in Berlin.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: and has supported Canada's G7 presidency through strategic public affairs at the Embassy of Canada to Germany. Jennifer Dunkeen wie gehtes heute.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Thank you so much. My accent won't be as nice as Anne-Marie's either, but…
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: Try something.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: I bet it's going to sound great Aufdeutsch.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Ich freue mich sehritis sein.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Okay, for those of you watching, please feel free to put some questions in the chat forum, and I will sprinkle those in throughout the questions that I have myself for today's events. So let's get going. Joseph, what do Canadian businesses have that the UK and Ireland actually want right now?
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: It's a very big question, and I think, I can list a few things off the top. Broadly speaking, we're doing alright in goods.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: We often have, right, we've got loads of natural resources in Canada, cereals to Ireland, gold, oddly enough, maybe not oddly enough, given the center of trade that is London, are the sort of top, goods going across the ocean.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: We're not doing quite as well in services, but it's… it's boom time for that right now, and we need to be leaning in heavily. Financial services, probably an obvious one, given the City of London.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: But certainly things around clean energy, AI, quantum, all of that is there for the taking with respect to the R&D components of it, as well as the tech and all the services we can offer in between. It's only, I think, about a fifth of our goods trade right now, but huge, huge opportunity. So they're very much in demand. We can meet that need.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: But I think we have to be thinking very differently about how we sell ourselves. I can come back to that, but that's what they're looking for right now, Steve.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Terrific. Harry, to you next. Because of our Commonwealth ties and shared language, it can be easy for Canadians to assume that they will be understood in these markets, so having said that, what obstacles should Canadian leaders be prepared for when they are considering overseas expansion?
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: So, I just want to just go back to a point that Joe made, and I want to tailor that into this answer.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: So I think the first thing is when you look at an opportunity anywhere, it could be UK and Ireland for now, but it could be any of the countries, you identify what the bottleneck is. What is the bottleneck? And specifically, when you look at opportunities for Canada.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: The bottleneck right now in the UK and Ireland is energy, basically the switch to renewable energy. So when you're looking at renewable energy, you basically have to be part of that supply chain or ecosystem for you to succeed. And then, you look at the three main pillars, or the three big opportunities that are happening today.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: which is basically AI,
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: space, and defense. And I think Canada can play a very important role in all these three. Now, going back to your question, Steve, I think whenever you go to any new market, I think the critical key to communication in a new market is basically how much you understand the culture. Now.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: both Ireland and the UK, they're English-speaking, there is a history already between Canada and the two countries, but there are some subtle differences. So, specifically, when you look, and I would recommend everyone to read a book called The Culture Map, which basically talks about different cultures around the world and how we should communicate with different cultures. So, when you look at UK and Ireland.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: I think the communication is always very subtle. So, it's unlike, you know, North America, like U.S. and Canada. There are subtle differences and subtle nuances in the communication that one has to pay attention to.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: The second thing I would say is how you're tailoring your communication, because the communication that you tailor to in Canada may not be applicable to the Ireland or UK because of the subtle differences. So I would say go as local as possible in understanding the culture.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Mary, I just happened to, as you said the name of the book, I think call it up, and I want to make sure I've… is that what it looks like, and is that the one you're recommending?
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: Yes, yes.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: That's the one. Okay, the culture map, decoding how people think, Lead, and Get Things Done Across Cultures, Aaron Meyer, M-E-Y-E-R.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: That's correct.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: The author?
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: Yes, that's the book, yeah.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Two thumbs up from Harry on that one. Okay, Jennifer, follow up if you would, give us an example of a Canadian brand that has done well in the United Kingdom or in Ireland.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: So, I mean, Joe mentioned the financial and professional services sector, and I think what's great about walking around the square mile is all of the Canadian brands that you see front and center.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: RBC, our major banks, you know, Bank of Montreal, CIBC, a lot of these banks are based here in London, and are growing and expanding.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: I would say our Canadian pension funds, CPPIB in particular, OMERS, CDPQ, have a fantastic brand abroad, and the way in which Canadian pension funds are investing, particularly in British assets.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: and British infrastructure, or British portfolios, is something the government in particular has really envied and is trying to push through things like the Mansion House Compact, and sort of unlocking, DC pension funds here domestically for domestic investment.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: So I would say those are… those are a few financial professional services brands that are really strong. And then there are others like, you know, Shopify, which is a strong brand, I think, globally, but… but certainly here in the UK, that has done really well. And there…
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: you know, to Joe's points, on the services side, I think there are professional services or financial services that
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: can expand here in the UK, and to Harry's point, there are subtle differences in our culture, even though our language is very similar, and there are even subtle differences, or not-so-subtle differences, in our language.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: And I'm reminded of that almost every day when I pronounce simple words like water and plant, and it gets a chuckle, or one that I have a really hard time with, which is burrow.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Or burra. And there are just things like that, which I think if you're open to learning and humor, it does provide a soft opening.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: And Canadians in general are seen very favourably here in the UK, and… and I think building on that in this period of change and geopolitical turmoil is only in our benefit, or to our benefit.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Jennifer, I have a son who lives in what I thought was the borough of Islington, but apparently he actually lives in the borough of Islington, is that right?
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: I live in Borough, like, the area, and it gets… taxi drivers are constantly asking me.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: where I live. So, yeah. Well, I don't.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: area, but my kid apparently lives about a block away from Arsenal's home stadium, and I gather they won it all this year, so it was party time for a long time where he was living.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Okay.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Anne-Marie, I want to focus specifically on Ireland with you, a competitive market. It attracts major global players in technology, finance, pharmaceuticals, and more. How can communication directors adequately prepare their leaders to succeed in Dublin, for example?
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: Look, I think that's a great question, Steve, and I think going back to what everybody has said so far, it is those cultural nuances. So, I suppose if I look at Ireland specifically, we're very much relationship-based when it comes to business, so…
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: It's about the long game.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: I would suggest, so, you know, if I was a comms director, giving advice, to my team coming into Ireland, it's about, you know, business happens over coffee, over dinner, happens over those conversations.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: So frame your presence as a commitment to positioning Ireland as a hub, rather than, you know, a local satellite office. We take…
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: business very seriously, but at the same time, and I'm going to be slightly facetious here, the fact that there's a transatlantic partner out there that we can do business with, that observes the rules of trade.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: and continues to do that is something that resonates really strongly in Ireland at the moment. The first Canadian company established here in Ireland back in the early 1900s, it was actually Canada Life at the time. So there's a history of Canadian companies coming to Ireland.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: Jennifer, you mentioned Shopify. Shopify did a great job during the pandemic, because they actually embedded themselves within
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: I suppose the Irish economic fabric, they supported local independent retailers, they partnered with domestic bodies here, so very much part of the ecosystem here and of the economy here. So that's very much a blueprint, for getting established and being successful in the Irish market.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: But if I hear you right, it sounds like you gotta get on a plane and rely less on Zoom, for example. Is that fair?
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: Correct. Correct. Yeah, we are all about the relationships here.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Gotcha. Okay. Stra, you look like you want to jump in. Please.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: Yeah, I wanted to just add something specific on Ireland in addition to what Anne-Marie mentioned. One is the tax advantages of having a company in Ireland, because the corporate tax rate is only 12.5%.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: Plus, they give you a 25% tax credit on R&D, which can be a big expense for especially biotechnology and technology companies.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: And the other big advantage of Ireland, being now the only English country in the EU, is if you get into Ireland, you also access the EU market. So I would say that Ireland is a great opportunity, and this is something that many technology companies have already taken advantage of. So, you know, we mentioned Shopify. Another example is OpenText, another company from Waterloo, Ontario. They made over 100 million
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: euro investment into Ireland to basically have that as their European, Middle East, and Africa headquarters. So I think Ireland, which has always presented a good opportunity for many years for many companies, that's something that, you know, we should look at specifically, in addition to looking at UK.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Who wants to build on that? Anne-Marie, go.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: Steve, just on that, Harry. The tax rate, corporate tax rate, is actually 15% now, so we're in line with OECD, but the R&D tax credit went up to 35% in the last… in the last budget year as well, so… so, absolutely to your point.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: It's very much something that the government here sees as being an enabler for the economy here.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Jennifer, how does London deal with that?
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Yeah, and it, I mean, the tax policy, tax talent, tax and talent are two issues that we think about a lot here in the square mile, or in the city. And obviously, the British tax
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: system is not as progressive or as, incentivized as maybe other jurisdictions. Particularly also on the income tax side. It's very expensive to work here. There's been changes to national insurance and, the cost of employing people in the UK over the last number of years.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: And that does…
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: I think put a lot of pressure on the competitiveness of the UK market. That said, the government is also very, you know, open to… well, we've had a lot of governmental change over the last couple of months and years, so, you know, there's been a lot of…
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Which Prime Minister are we on now?
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: I think we're on number 8 in the last 10, but Joe, you might have sparked me on that. So, I think they're live to the fact that you can't be complacent. That said, in the square mile, we've seen an increase in jobs pre-pandemic and pre-Brexit of about 25%.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: So people are still choosing the UK, particularly on the professional service side, tech side, tech headquarters. Just had a conversation this afternoon about what makes the UK an attractive place for some of those global headquarters.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: You can't beat the connectivity of London, you can't beat the talent and the agglomeration of talent that bases itself here.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: There may be some tax disadvantages, that's undeniable when you think about a 35% R&D tax credit in Ireland.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: So… but I think… I think the success of Prime Ministers have been live to the ways in which they need to keep the UK, competitive from a tax perspective and from a talent perspective, which I think is another big…
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: big…
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: challenge for the government, not irrespective of some of the individuals on this call who have obviously chosen the UK as a home.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Well, we are going to talk about the British elephant in the room, which is a decision the country made 10 years ago, Brexit. And, Joseph, let me get you in on this. We want to… I think we should turn our view to some post-Brexit regulatory changes, everything from data sovereignty to trade compliance.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: I wonder if you could tell us what you think UK regulatory readiness looks like for Canadian businesses that want to do business with the motherland, as it were.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Here we go. Get me on the Brexit question. I think we're going on to number 7 in the UK, in terms of prime ministers.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: That's something.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Which tells you a lot about the state of play right now in terms of politics. It's very short-term, which, when you think about
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: post-Brexit, which I think was the 10th anniversary, just.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: This last couple weeks.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Yep.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: There's still a lot to sort out.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: So it's… it's a little messy right now, particularly around things like data sovereignty. I mean, I think that's true for a lot of markets right now, but, you know, the EU is doing what it can to figure out how it positions that entire market, and the UK's got to figure out how its stack, as it were, and all the issues related to it, fit both within that, but also with the rest of the world.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: That's going to be, I think, the most particular challenge, so it's those more 21st century problems.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: that the UK is really going to have a difficult time unpicking. I think some of the old school trade issues and regulations will either just keep as they were, or they'll kind of modify alongside the EU. I mean, it is in their interest, basically, to maintain as much connectivity, as it were, in every sense of that word, with the European market.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: And even the Conservatives were not about to start changing loads of those regulations just to make life more difficult to sell within the EU.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: So, there is a great deal of reciprocity still, there's still a great deal of trade, there's still a great deal of harmony between regs, but as I say, I think if you're particularly looking at
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: those 21st century sectors, the quantum, the AI, you know, a lot of clean energy even, that's where there's going to be, I think, a great deal of challenge for the UK, because it's not only got to figure out what it does
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: in this space as so many others are, but how it figures itself out on its own, balancing both where the US is headed and where the EU might go, they might not necessarily be in the same direction.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: So, you want to be, if you are an exporter, or hope to be in anything in this space, you've got to do your research. You've got to stay current. I mean, everyone's doing that right now, but it's a massive challenge. I think the door is open to Canadian firms and businesses and players in a way that it isn't necessarily for others.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: But it's not kind of wide open, and people aren't waiting with open arms to greet you on the other side. You've got to do your research, you've got to do your homework. Henry's right about the relationship building, but I think a lot of what we talked about is our strengths.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: And how we can, you know, meet the need for goods and services in those spaces, but…
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: What are you…
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: what solution are you providing for them? I think that's the number one question Canadian firms need to ask themselves. It's not why we're so nice and wonderful, it's not the fact that we have a history of relationship and so on. Those are all table stakes, perhaps those help to a certain degree.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: But if you're not coming in there with a case study that you figured out that says, this is why I can solve the problem the way that nobody else can.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: they will resort to type. I mean, UK's hyper-competitive, they've got lots of spaces and places to go, it's a noisy market. Ireland, I think, maybe, Henry, you correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they are better attuned to, because of their size.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: being a little bit more, kind of, attraction-oriented to folks outside, and using the fact they are a beachhead still within the EU as an opportunity, but you still have to go and say why you as compared to others.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Hmm.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: And that's the critical piece of homework missing. You can have all the trade deals, you can have even the reg harmony, you can even have great people at Canada House helping out, but if you don't figure out what it is you're selling in a way that resonates with the buyer.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Then, you're only gonna get so far.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Anne-Marie, you want to build on that?
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: Yeah, I would agree with that completely, Joseph, I think.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: I suppose we very much take the view now that we are the kind of the main English-speaking country left in the EU after Brexit, and that's something that we've tried to build on over the last 10 years in terms of a competitive advantage, but…
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: we, I suppose, are in that unique position in that we are very much… I mean, I think the last poll was 82% in favor of being members of the EU, so we are staunchly European in our outlook on that.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: But yet, we always look to the west, so it's always been towards North America.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: And I think that's something that we straddle sometimes in terms of trying to be not as European when we talk.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: to both the Canadians and the Americans, and conversely as well. So that's a kind of an interesting position that we find ourselves in. But, you know, the bottom line is.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: Ireland is very much positioned as being open for business tomorrow, July the 1st. Ireland takes on the presidency of the European Council for the next 6 months.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: And that very much positions us as being that honest broker negotiator for the six months in terms of helping a number of important pieces of policy and legislation get across the line for Europe and for the 27 member states.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: And within that, there's always… there's a huge focus in terms of that statesman piece, that negotiation piece, that relationship piece. And, you know, if you can come here, as you say, Joseph, with a solution, what are you bringing to us?
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: You know, there are so many agencies and departments and organizations and associations here that are… that are waiting for that type
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: Of engagement to happen.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Jennifer, anything you want to push back on in the way Joseph described
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: a bit of wild, wild west in the City of London.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: I don't think he described it like that. I don't see… I mean.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: A little bit.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: And we haven't experienced the Brexit… the doom and gloom of Brexit in the city in the way that I think was first
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Yeah, we do love the City of London, Danielle, I'm looking at the chat. You know, we haven't experienced that kind of decline. You know, this… this… this, you know, outflow of jobs to Frankfurt and Paris and Amsterdam just hasn't happened.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: And that's because I think you cannot recreate this powerful effect of insurance, finance, asset management.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: the exchanges that are here, and there is obviously a lot of negativity about listings here in the UK or listings in London. You know, when you look at secondary listings and dual listings, the story is incredibly positive and in fact, growing. So, you know, I think from a Brexit perspective.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: it has worked… it has meant that the government has had to sort of walk the walk, or walk the talk, which is, we're going out, we're going to develop and engage with different markets, and they have done that. You see a trade agreement with India, you see a much more outwardly focused…
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: type of engagement. So I, you know, we've seen a much more positive picture, and as I said, we have
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: record-breaking rents in the square mile. We can't build…
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: buildings fast enough for occupancy. We've had more planning permissions in the last year. We've had record-breaking planning permissions and a development pipeline that New York, Singapore, and Toronto would envy. So, people want to be in London. There's a lot of advantages to being here.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: There are also probably a lot of disadvantages to being here, no doubt, but I think for certain sectors, this is a great place to be and a place to grow your business. And that includes things like, you know, I know we're focusing on tech, and fintech and defense was mentioned in the chat.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: But the built environment is a huge, powerhouse here in London. Creative industries, et cetera, et cetera, and emerging tech, frontier tech.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: when we look at the headquarters for OpenAI, JP Morgan, landmark investment, not in the square mile, but down in Canary Wharf. So, I see the story as a lot more positive, perhaps, than Joe has articulated.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Well, Harry, maybe we should just call it complexity, as opposed to good or bad. We'll just say it's complex, occasionally, to do business in the United Kingdom in a post-Brexit world. At what point would you say it's worth it for a Canadian business to expand over there?
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: So, Steve, I'll still go back… I'll just go back to what Joe said in terms of, you know, bringing about a specific opportunity. So if you look at what's happening today in the world, and what could be a specific opportunity for Canadian companies in UK, in Ireland, maybe other places.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: is sovereign AI, okay? So, sovereign AI is going to become a reality, okay? Because if you look at what happened with the Mythos model, every country in the world now does not want to hand over the control of AI to 3 or 4 companies. So if you look at the… from an opportunity perspective, okay, so you have to identify the opportunity, and I think the rules and regulations will follow, and I'll just give you an example.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: So if you look at the trade deal that EU did with Mercosur in South America, that accelerated the deal simply because of the situation. So I think today.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: Companies or countries cannot allow… be, you know, cannot wait for something to happen. If there is an opportunity, they're going to define the rules around it.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: So, going back to your question, Steve, it all comes down to what your business is, and what is your market potential in UK and probably in Ireland as well. So, depending on your market opportunity, and just from my personal experience, what I have seen is…
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: you can ramp up, into revenues in U.S. within 3 to 6 months, in Canada, 6 months, and probably you're looking at UK to ramp up revenues, looking at a period of 12 to 24 months. So it really comes down to what your business is, and what is your business outlook.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: But you are not going to ramp up revenues as quickly as you are in Canada or the US.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: So, the question really comes down to, is the market worth it is, what is the market potential? So, if you're looking at specifically for a company that is in renewable energy, or anything to do with the power associated with data centers.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: something like what a Brookfield renewable is doing, or a chemical, which is, you know, supplying uranium. There, the market is different than if you were a consumer good. So I think it is going to be very product-specific, and that's going to determine what the opportunity is.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: I do want to remind everybody, since we're about halfway through here, that we're happy to take your questions in the chat, and I noticed, Daniela, good for you, you've weighed in a few times. And the last one says, the UK console has a great commercial and venture leg with a very tight collaboration in tech.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: FinTech and aerospace bilaterally. We love the City of London, she says, and then follows it with about…
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Can't quite see, but it might be 7 exclamation marks. Danielle is very enthusiastic about the City of London. Joseph, back to you, if I could. Ontario and the UK, province of Ontario and Canada, and the United Kingdom recently signed a partnership focused on critical minerals, about which we hear so much these days.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: in part to strengthen the supply chains and reduce reliance on China's dominance in this sector.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: What do you think private sector leaders can learn from these kinds of direct public sector partnerships?
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Yeah, listen, I worked for the International Trade Minister, and at one point, the Ministry of Infrastructure, which had the Canada Infrastructure Bank, which is all about public-private partnerships. I've seen these things operate at scale domestically and internationally, and, you know.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: at a very high level, I think…
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: having these kinds of arrangements in place send very positive signals. They're very good to do. I do not disparage Prime Minister Carney from traveling around, as he's been doing lately, trying to do exactly that, and indeed Premier Ford having just done the same thing on critical minerals. These are all, I think, really positive steps and signals. They create a space
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: With maybe some rules in place for, others to follow from the private sector, who… all they want is clarity, and clear rules, and people who will follow them, and they'll do the rest. That's what they tell us anyway, and it seems to be proven, you know, positive with history. So, they're very good initiatives, but that's what they are.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: We had, you know, when I was at trade, you know, we got to a point where Canada is today the best connected G7 country in the G7, maybe even G20 and beyond, to every other nation in that group, by virtue of trade deals we have East and West, North and South.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: But these things are basically just a paper exercise until people fall behind them, read them, take advantage of them, use them. And so what I think the private sector needs to do… well, first, the public sector needs to make sure they're advertising that they exist. The private sector then needs to actually grip them and figure out their role within that. And if they don't have clarity, demand it.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: And they need to be unified in demanding that. So, particularly around critical minerals, you can have so many stakeholders, not just the players directly who can mine these things and get to the market, but their supply chain interests, you name it, associations up the wazoo. They need to get organized.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: And this is true for any other sector, frankly. If you're part of an association, get organized around one, two demands at most. Get the clarity you need around those, get the access you need, and then follow up next. If you ask for the moon, you're just gonna keep, you know, struggling to get it.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: So I think…
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Clarity gives you some rules, but you've got to go in and figure out how to use them, and if you don't have that clarity, demand it from the people that opened the door in the first place.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Joseph, just out of curiosity for the Canadians who are watching, what ministers did you work for?
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: I worked for the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister of International Trade, and I worked for him at the same time that it became the Minister for International Trade Diversification.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Because something happened in the States in 2016.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: I can't remember what.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Yeah. And then the Minister of Infrastructure. He's now our Minister of Finance.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Did you want to name names on who these people were?
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Yeah, well, it was Stefan Dion, who then went to Europe, and has been very much involved in opening doors for folks, Francois-Philippe Champagne, who's now our finance minister, and Jim Carr, who tragically passed away, a few years ago.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Okay, thank you. I want to talk about my business now. I want to talk about, the media, and what people need to know about the distinctions and differences between our media and the media across the pond. So for the PR officials and professionals watching.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Maybe this one will be for you. Jennifer, to you first. The critical differences that our teams need to know about
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Vis-a-vis the UK and Irish media. Tell us.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: I mean, I can only speak to the UK media, so maybe let Anne-Marie speak more to the context, but Joe alluded to it previously. This is a very crowded space. There's a lot of noise in the UK, and so I think…
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: clarity and cut through and being really clear about what's your story, and the angle here may be more than any other jurisdiction I've worked in.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: is about… I don't want to say it's, like, gotcha… a gotcha mentality, but it is a bit of a…
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: needling to cut… to… to get caught… get you caught out on a subject. So, your… your principles, your,
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Spokespeople need to be sharp, or need to be very well media trained in order to pivot around some of those moments, because it's very easy to get caught in some of that crossfire.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: and suddenly you've revealed something that you didn't intend to reveal. So I would say, you know, and that maybe is the Canadian in me that's a bit more…
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: I give people the benefit of the doubt, but on the media landscape in particular, you know, it may seem really friendly, and you may seem like you're having… even if you say you're having an off-the-record conversation.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: I think the era of off-the-record conversations is kind of over, and… and I think, particularly in the UK environment, you have to be really careful about what you're saying, even if you're just sitting next to
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: a colleague or a media colleague at dinner, you know, nothing is really… they're always fishing for a story, and I think that, to me, is a big difference between the Canadian and the British market, but I'll have colleagues jump in there. And a lesson that I've certainly had to learn over the… it's also very transactional.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Maybe more so than other jurisdictions I've worked in.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Which is good and bad, and so there is a constant sifting for information, and that's how you show value as a communicator, or as someone in the profession, is, you know, what kind of information can I share? Maybe not even about the company I'm working for, but just about the ecosystem. I think that…
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: the, the lobby…
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: the lobby in Westminster is very small, smaller than you would anticipate, and they all know each other, and there's a lot of fierce competition for stories and for news.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Were you ever on the receiving end of a big gotcha media moment?
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Not yet, but there's still time.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Rings eternal.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: I hope I have a long career ahead of me, who knows? No, I think… I think,
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: you know, you do leave… I have… I have left interviews with principals thinking, I'm not… I'm not sure we… that… that that turn of phrase will land well.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: And it can be really simple.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Where you think, is that gonna be the headline?
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Where… where, you know, normally it would just be a passing sort of comment, but then suddenly that's really what you need Ilan on, so… or it's the last question, where sort of everyone's let their guard down, and da-da-da, and then, you know, that zinger question comes at the end, and you think, this isn't part of the interview anymore, so I'm just gonna give my opinion.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Surprise!
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Yeah, exactly.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: I'm not sure we have any newspapers in Canada that are as vicious as anything I've seen on Fleet Street. No. Joseph is shaking his head. Everybody's shaking their heads. Anne-Marie, do you want to follow up in terms of the Irish press?
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: Yeah, absolutely. I suppose the big difference, is that the Irish media landscape is really small.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: highly concentrated, and there's a laser focus on economic impact. So, if you send a generic press release in, or you pitch something without really, some kind of connection, it will be ignored, right? So, journalists want to know what's the connection
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: And 9 times out of 10, are you creating jobs? What's the investment? So, very much focused in on that. So… so in terms of, I suppose, that piece, it is about considering how is your narrative going to anchor you and your organization here.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: And, you know, it's funny, we started the very first question, or the second question, sorry, Steve, you mentioned the Commonwealth, right? And everybody reacted to that phrase, and… and I sat here and thought, oh no, don't mention that word when you're talking about Ireland. And people keep talking about the UK and Ireland, but actually, in Ireland.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: we don't ever say the UK and Ireland. We're very much a distinct, separate market. I think that's just useful for comms people, right? So when you come into… we talked about cultural nuances earlier on. When you come into this landscape here, it is about finding those connections, and it is about…
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: And for me, actually, it's about the boots on the ground, so who is in the know locally that can help guide you, and that can give you that steer, and that can do those introductions for you, rather than just landing in and assuming that you know the marketplace, and you'll be able to… and you may well do that, but,
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: certainly from our perspective, having local PR professionals on the ground who will make your story relevant in an Irish context.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: Just needs to be front of mind when looking to establish here.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Harry, you're a media guy, you want a word on this?
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: Yeah, just, I mean, I actually agree completely with what Jennifer and Anne said, and specifically what Anne just mentioned, which is, when you do PR,
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: in a different country, you have to go local. I mean, we shouldn't try to kind of implement a strategy that was made in Canada, in the UK, or in Ireland. You need to talk to folks like Jennifer and Anne-Marie and say, hey, listen, I need to send this message, this is my product, this is what I want to achieve, what's the best way to communicate this? And I think the PR professionals that are local, that understand the media, we should completely depend on them. So that's what
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: We have done in the past, whenever we did any launches outside of Canada or the United States, we always went local with the local PR firms.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Okay. Dana Van Allen has come into the chat with a question, so let me put it out here, and whoever wants in on it, just please jump in. Question regarding energy. In the messaging around Canada as an energy superpower, is the messaging around nuclear generation being talked about, or are you mostly hearing about renewables and natural gas?
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Joseph, you want to get us started on that, and then maybe we'll go around.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Yeah, listen, absolutely nuclear is very much part of the conversation, and indeed, so too is, almost a drill-baby-drill mindset in the North Sea. They are, as I think many Europeans are, desperately looking for alternative sources of energy, whether they be for cost reasons or national security reasons, usually both.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: So I'd say everything is on the table, and in fact, I would say, I think, the kind of the oil, the gas, the nuclear, the sort of older school mix, if you will, I think are more front of mind, actually, than renewables. You might have a bigger job, particularly if you're talking about government procurement.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: getting a hearing on some of that right now. That said, Ed Miliband, very strong, minister there, very keen on their net-zero agenda, so there's still certainly a play to be had there, but most definitely nuclear is very much part of the mix.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: And when you… if you are bidding for any space in these areas, bear in mind that they're also hot topics. So just coming back very briefly to media, I would… I endorse what Harry said about getting some local expertise to help you. It is a very different market, and if you are starting to play or…
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: hoping to play in a space that is controversial, and energy very much is, you're gonna want some help, because, there's a very different pitch I'd be making to the Telegraph and the Daily Mail versus, you know, some of the others right now, so…
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: I should know this, but I don't. Does the Green Party have any seats in the British Parliament right now?
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Yeah, I think they've just.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Thank you.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: one or two.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: And they've taken over the local councils of a few spots, so they're doing very well at, you know, what we would refer to at the municipal level, at the council level, particularly across London following the last election.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Now, again, I don't know about this, but the Greens are not very anti-nuclear in Canada. Are they in the UK?
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: the Green Party agenda here is… is quite,
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: it's not your traditional Green Party agenda, I would say, and Joe, you can come in, but certainly the manifestos of the Green Party here would not be your traditional, you know, what I would refer to as the Green Party in Canada, which was more about
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: you know, renewable energy, very open society type of mentality, you know, immigration, immigration-focused or migration-focused. The Green Party here has, has a very, I would say left agenda, but left…
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: conservative, like, almost like a left conservative agenda. It's a strange mix.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Yeah.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: It is probably, to give… sorry, just to admit, but I think it is…
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: it is probably doing on the left what the, kind of, the Farage movement, in a certain sense, is doing on the right. They are desperately… and they're on the ascendant, and they are trying to cannibalize what they can, in their case, from labor.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Taking advantage of the fact that Labour is still oscillating a little bit between, kind of, its hard efforts under Corbyn and new Labour under Blair.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: And where Keir might have taken the party. So, there's lots of space in play right now on all sides of the spectrum, and the green are certainly taking advantage, which is why you see them borrowing a little bit from centers, even center-right politics, as well as left, but they are…
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: I think it's certainly kind of eco-populist, if I can put it that way.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Yeah, the word I would have described as well, yeah.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: It's interesting our countries have that in common, because the first leader of the Green Party of Canada was a former Conservative, and the current leader of the Green Party, Elizabeth May.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: once worked for a conservative cabinet minister in the 1980s as Brian Mulroney, you know, in Brian Mulroney's Conservative government. So, I guess there are those conservative elements to the Green Party in both of our countries.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Okay, we're into the home stretch here, and let me get each of you… again, we'll go around the horn here. The number one thing that Canadian leaders need to start doing if they want their brand
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Quote-unquote, to make waves, sorry, across the pond.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Harry, you want to start us off on that?
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: Yeah, I would just say, think global, but act local.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Okay, how about an example of that? What does that, what does that actually look like in performance?
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: Okay, so let's take, you know, the example of two companies, one which is Shopify, and the other which is OpenText, right? Both of who have, you know, embraced…
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: embraced Ireland. So, you look at what they have done to be successful as their global companies, and Shopify especially, because it's much bigger than OpenText.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: So, big global company, but when they actually went into Ireland, they didn't… they did not try to say, hey, listen, I'm going to get a, you know, like, 20 Canadians to move to Ireland. They hired locally, they looked into local expertise, so it basically made the job easier of scaling the company, and I think this is applicable to any business, because
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: For someone to master, you know, the exact, you know, business and the nuances in a different country, it's going to take you years. But there are people locally who already have the expertise, so why not just hire them? So I would say when I said think, you know, think global, but act local.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: So your business can be a global business, but if you really want to succeed, you have to act local when it comes to hiring people, or looking at the culture, communication, all that has to be local.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Okay, Anne-Marie, to follow up, please?
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: Yeah, I would agree with that 100%. I think I said that earlier as well, about having the local boots on the ground. Like, it's, you know, you should never underestimate the small things.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: You know, even press release or piece of material comes in from a US or a Canadian company.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: you know, the Zs rather than the S's in the middle of words. You know, small things like that are actually, you know, they leave an impact. So talk to somebody locally, whether it's your comms person, or as Harry said, whether it's developing your team from the ground up.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: But have those boots on the ground.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Jennifer, your advice.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: So, I'm a… unfortunately, colleagues in the office know when I've written a document because of the Zeds. It's immediately commented upon. Oh, Jen wrote this, because it's just littered with Zeds. It's a really hard habit to get out of if you're typing as a Canadian, I would say.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: My advice, and I would say this because I've worked in government, as Joe has, and it was commented on in the chat as well, is use the resources of our Trade Commissioner Service
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: And of the other services that are out there, you know, Invest Ireland would be an example. There are a lot of agencies and organizations that want your… want you to export, want you to invest locally.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: And they are, you know, incentivized to help you navigate complex regulatory processes, etc, etc. The city also has a concierge service. You know, the UK has just established a new concierge service for financial and professional services, so…
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: use those resources, and don't be shy about using those resources, because they exist to help make the process easier for you. And, you know, test and ask… ask questions throughout those processes before, obviously, putting… putting your money where your mouth is. So, that would be my advice.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Jennifer, spell, organize.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Oh my god, it's like a spelling bee. There's a Z in it, obviously, at the end!
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Not where you are, there isn't.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: I know.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Okay, Joseph?
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Yeah, so I think…
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: you know, there's a few big examples of Canadian brands that have done very well for themselves.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: I think they are outliers. Financial services, most definitely, there's a long history there, and we have a very, I think, compatible system.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: That has enabled our banks to do very well there. There are Canada Goose, and it's not just in the UK, you see it everywhere. But I think, you know, you think winter, you want a winter jacket, you want to park something that says Canada Goose on it, you think, well, that's got to be good.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: It kind of makes the argument for itself, and I got some of the design right, too.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Beyond that, when you start scratching the surface of brands that have done really well, they've done really well because, coming back to what I said earlier.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: They've done their homework, and they're presenting a solution.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: That…
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Hmm.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: really meets the needs of a buyer, a government, market, what have you. So, you know, Lululemon, you would have thought maybe it would have the same experience as Canada Goose, my understanding is, and as anyone out there knows better, do correct me, but they actually spent a lot of time building a network and partnerships, and then into retail. It was a long tail of investment.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Coustal, I'm in Quebec right now, they own Circle K, which I'm sure most viewers are familiar with. And Henry, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they partnered with, or bought out, or sort of both.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Topaz, which is a network of similar chains, and they've since rebranded them all Circle K. It's a massive project and endeavor. They didn't go in thinking, oh, we can just compete, or we'll buy one or two. They really took their time and did their work. And these are big, big players, but I would say the advice is true for all.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Do your homework, make sure you're meeting a… bringing a solution to their needs, rather than just talking about yourself.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: And look for creative ways to get that market entry, because while the door is cracked open, as I said, nobody's going to make it easy from there. So you've got to think about JVs, buyouts, some sort of form of partnership. Use those MOUs, use those trade agreements, and use those trade commissioners.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: And maybe all of the above in a lot of cases, but you've got to do your homework. And by the way, Canadians.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Hate to say it, but I spent a lot of time, watching the numbers and opening markets with my minister. We're so used to selling into the USA.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: And it's taking a long time. I mean, that change in title from international trade to international trade diversification was 10 years ago.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: And the numbers are, you know, slow, slow, steady. We have to wean ourselves from that, and it takes a lot of work, not just to do that, but then to figure out how you pivot and get that done well. But there are resources out there, so I'd encourage anyone, no matter your size, to use them.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Got a good question in the chat here, referring to the generation gap. And, here goes. Maybe, Anne-Marie, you'll take a kick of this one first. In Canada, particularly among younger generations, businesses are being evaluated on their corporate values, presenting a comms challenge slash balance.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Is the same push for corporate social responsibility as strong in the UK and EU? Anne-Marie, if you would, start us off.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: Yeah, I would say yes, Steve, is the short answer to that question. Now, that has been somewhat tempered in the last couple of years, particularly, I suppose, where we find ourselves in Ireland with such,
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: such an amount of US multinational companies based here, and obviously, with the change in the administration of the US, and a change in that whole space, in terms of CSR, diversity, all of those,
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: those values that would have been very strong previously, so there is a bit of a change there. And interestingly, we see it in the EU as well. So, a lot of the policies that would have been very strong in terms of CSR sustainability.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: they've kind of come back a bit. There's an argument that maybe it was too much front and center. It's still there, but there's not… it's not…
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: I suppose it's not at number one for a lot of companies anymore. And they're looking at it now not so much that it's the right thing to do, but it's the right thing to do because commercially it makes sense. So there's a change, I suppose, in the way that it's being described or looked at now.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: Still there, but, but, and certainly from a younger perspective.
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: that's, you know, I remember having a conversation with a friend who runs a PR agency about 5 years ago, and she made the point that if one more, you know, young person comes in and interviews me about our values, and what, you know, what can I get involved in, you know, she's going, that's it, I'm not doing this anymore, you know, this is…
Ann-Marie O'Sullivan | AM O'Sullivan PR: So… so that is kind of slightly righted itself, but, you know, yeah, there's definitely a bit of a pulling back, but that is still very much, a focus for a lot of companies.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: I hear that all the time. It's kind of the new normal. Jennifer, do you want to add something?
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Yeah, I mean, in the city, I would say it really is still a push.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: For sure, especially when we look at, global headquarters and, that, that read across on, on Grade A office space. So, companies are… are seeking the highest energy ratings, the highest, efficiency ratings for their.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: buildings, and we have a vacancy rate in Class A
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: Class A developments of, like, less than 2%. We can't, like I said before, we can't build those kinds of buildings fast enough, and that's because young people
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: The worker population of the square mile is 676,000 people. 56% of those workers are under the age of 40.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: And they want different things, generationally, they want different things. They want…
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: really modern office space that is efficient, that is low-energy use, that, you know, has all the amenities that you would want in a high-grade office space. They want an employer that looks after their mental health and well-being.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: They want development opportunities where learning is top of mind, and they want to feel and be, they want to be in inclusive and welcoming environments, to the point where the city is also making sure that we have projects and initiatives that
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: make sure we're celebrating the diversity of the worker population that crosses the boundaries of the square mile, which is a big shift, I would say, from 10 years ago.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: And we're also trying to change the perception of the square mile, which used to be just bankers and, you know, people, people at pubs.
Jennifer Beckermann | City of London Corporation: But there is also a shift to, you know, doing activities that are non-drinking related, et cetera, et cetera. And I think that that is a shift that we're seeing, and certainly many companies also embracing.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: As a guy of a certain age, I'm tempted to ask, of course, I would never ask this question, but I'm tempted to ask, why can't they just be satisfied working in dumps for jerks like we all did when we were coming up? But I guess, no. I guess that's not on. Harry, something to add on this topic?
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: Yeah, no, I've just, you know, I think, you know, specifically, I'll just go back to… there was a discussion about nuclear, there was a question about nuclear, so I think, in addition to everything else, I think.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: ESG, specifically when you look at, you know, from a sustainability standpoint, it also helps companies from a cost perspective, right? So, I'll just explain this very quickly. So, when you look at a typical data center, right, which is where all the future construction is going to come from, their capex, on their capex table, the power is only 15% to 20%.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: But once you start operating the data center.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: you know, almost 50% of the cost go towards power. So when you look at sustainability, it's not… and you talk about nuclear, but it's 24x7, clean energy.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: You're also not talking just about sustainability, but you're also talking about how it helps a business. So a lot of businesses, I think, are also going to look into that angle, because
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: They're also going to look at, okay, look, if I do this, how much is it going to help the environment, and how much is it going to also help my bottom line? So I think for power especially, the shift to sustainability will be much faster than what we're looking at today.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Great. Joseph, you're gonna bat clean up and give us the last word.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Oh, right. Well, I mean, I hate to repeat myself a little bit, but I think, ultimately, if you're out there thinking, we've got all these brilliant, magical attributes that make Canada so darn attractive right now, and I mean, we do.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: But if you're expecting that alone to get you two sales, You'll never get there.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: So stop pitching the relationship, build one, like Anne-Marie said. Stop pitching, you know, Canada, and all its attributes, lovely nice. I think we have to be a little less modest, a little more forthright, and do your research and start pitching the case study.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: That's how you're gonna get in. It's telling them exactly how you've got the solution for their very specific problem, and knowing what it is and how you fix it.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Terrific. Let me do a little housekeeping just before we sign this thing off. I, of course, want to start by thanking you four
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: for a very splendid conversation about a great topic that's very timely, so thanks so much for taking time out of your lives to join us today. I want to thank the audience, of course, for joining us online, particularly those who put questions and comments in the chat. Some really good stuff there.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: If you missed any of this, Curious Public will be sharing the recording and an audio version of today's conversation, so keep your eyes on your email inboxes. And can I say, one day early, but on behalf of everybody.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Happy Canada Day tomorrow! We turn 159 tomorrow. Not quite 250, which the U.S. turns on Saturday, but 159, 159 years of peace order and good government.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Mostly, sort of.
Steve Paikin | The Paikin Podcast: Anyway, until next time, everybody, I'm Steve Pakin. Peace and love. See you around.
Hari Srinivas | Ethnic Channels Groups: Thank you.
Joseph Pickerill | Tony Blair Institute for Global Change: Thank you.