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A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.
Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast
where we hold horror to progressive
standards it never agreed to.
Tonight, we're talking about the widely
lauded Spanish horror film about a
bullied girl, a long walk home, and the
spiraling horror that results from it.
It's Piggy.
I am your host, Jeremy Whitley,
and with me tonight, I have a
panel of cinephiles and Cenobites.
First, they're here to challenge the
sexy werewolf, sexy vampire binary.
My co host, Ben Kahn.
Ben, how are you tonight?
Ben: Man, I gotta say, this movie is one
time where I'm actually really glad they
had someone in their mid thirties play a
teenager, because I would have felt real
bad about subjecting an actual teenage
actress to being the lead in this movie.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Ben: This was deeply unsettling film.
Jeremy: Absolutely.
And the cinnamon roll of Cenobites,
our co host, Emily Martin.
How are you tonight, Emily?
Emily: I'm coping.
I'm doing my best.
Jeremy: It's all any of us can do these
Emily: yeah, not being stalked by any
serial killers that I know of, so, yeah.
Ben: But are you in any
super uncomfortable romances
with any serial killers?
Emily: Not that I'm aware of,
but, you know, I don't know
what goes on in their heads.
Ben: This movie was so many bad things.
Executed very well.
Emily: Yeah, this movie's real
Ben: This was uncut gems
level uncomfortable.
Jeremy: And our guest tonight.
The writer of Oryx in Space and Junior
Braves the Apocalypse, Michael Tanner.
Michael, what's upsetting you tonight?
Michael: Oh man.
Honestly, this is going
to sound really weird.
So I moved away from Los
Angeles almost two years ago,
so I missed the hurricane and,
Emily: the earthquake,
Michael: and the
earthquake, the hurricane.
And I've never been so disappointed.
Like I'm now in hindsight.
Because the hurricane was like,
Oh, it was, it was a lot of rain,
but nothing too bad happened.
I'm so bummed that I missed it because
there is nothing better than LA and
the rain, as far as I'm concerned.
And like 24 hours of rain in Los Angeles,
me missing that, it just breaks my heart.
So that's uh, that's what's
upsetting me on this day and time.
Jeremy: I thought the rest of the gang,
I was pretty sure there was a horror
movie going on in LA because it always
rains during horror movies in LA.
Emily: I think Nancy was summoning
the spirit, and so there's a beach
somewhere just covered in sharks,
Jeremy: it's a lot of crafting going on.
Yeah, as we've hinted at already heavy,
heavy uh, warnings on content in this one.
There's a lot of like bullying.
There's a lot of,
Ben: Oh my
Jeremy: uh,
Ben: So many of my notes.
So many of my notes were just like, Well,
content warning for workplace harassment.
Like, what, content warning?
Whoop, content warning.
Jeremy: Yeah, if you're not in a
place where you're ready to deal with
harassment and stalking and assault
and all that stuff in this fiction
maybe save this one for another night.
Ben: Yep content
Jeremy: the recap on this one.
Did you want to jump into that?
Emily: Sure I've, we've only listed Laura
Garon, who is the star of this film.
Ben: By the way, her performance.
Jeremy: Oh,
Emily: no, she was, she was fantastic.
She was fantastic.
The director and writer is Carlota Pareda.
And you know.
There's some real, real shit
in this movie, so good job.
Jeremy: For it, it is based on a short
that the same actors and same director
also did in, I believe, 2017 or 2018.
This is the feature film version
we're talking about, which was just
Emily: so, in lieu of listening to
the rest of the cast crew otherwise,
you just, you know, go on, die, MTV.
I'll try to recap this for everyone
in a way that isn't too upsetting.
So, we start with our protagonist, Sarah.
She lives in a rural Spanish town with
her family, running the most cute and
appetizing butcher shop I've ever seen.
I mean, that's searly.
The butcher shop is the least
upsetting part of this movie.
Yeah, unfortunately, Sarah's
family is not so cute.
Her mom is the worst, her dad
only slightly better, and just
about everybody in this small town
bullies her because of her weight.
It's Saint Fermin, and folks are partying,
there are bulls running, one of them
is lost it's hot as hell, it's July.
Sarah just wants to go swimming
alone because that's the only time
she feels she can comfortably.
But the Mean Girls squad come along
and bully her Maka, Rosie, and
Claudia, and they almost drown her
and then proceed to take her stuff and
leave her to walk home in a bikini.
Fortunately?
Question mark!
Not, it's not fortunate.
Jeff the Killer is in town, and
he's just about to launch his spree.
Well, he's already started with the
totally innocent waitress and the
totally sexist lifeguard, and he decides
the next targets are the mean girls.
After being publicly humiliated,
sunburnt, sexually assaulted, and
battered on the way home, Sarah
encounters Jeff the Killer rounding
up the girls in his murder mobile.
She's paralyzed with fear, but
he leaves her Claudia's towel
and shoes and then drives off.
A comedy of errors ensues where the
people of the town start finding bodies
and try to figure out what happened.
Sarah is further traumatized as her
parents dismiss and or shame her.
The cops harass her, and she is
further confused by the fact that
the only person who ever seemed to
offer her any empathy is a serial
killer who is also stalking her.
It's a real rough time.
Sarah takes matters into her own hands,
and at least tries to find her phone.
She sneaks out, calls her phone
using her dad's phones, which
she has stolen, and finds, A, the
missing bowl from the festival.
Good job, but scary.
2, Jeff the killer's hideout, and 3,
panicking parents and cops in the woods.
Jeff Sarah escape with some very
uncomfortable intimate overtures and
a little packaged snack cake which
he gives her with all the tact of a
cat bringing their owner a dead rat.
As suspicion closes on Sarah,
she makes a deal with Pedro, the
boyfriend of one of the mean girls.
If people try to officially indict him,
she will come forward with her story
about seeing the girls at the pool.
Pedro and Sarah connect as he offers
her a joint with slightly more tact
than a house cat offering dead animals.
Jeremy: 2023.
Emily: Unfortunately,
everybody in this town sucks.
Pedro throws sare to the cops when his
girlfriend's parents publicly blame him.
His dad beeps him for the effort, so.
Watch out for that one.
Domestic violence is another
big one in this film.
Mork, public humiliation ensues as Sarah
is interrogated by police and then put on
blast by her mom for stress menstruation.
Or stranstuation as I like to call it.
It is a thing.
Not, diminishing that in any way.
Been there.
For real.
Sarah finally meets her limit
and she starts screaming at
her mom when they get home.
Meanwhile, Jeff the killer has attacked
her dad and mom tries to beat her.
He then abducts Sarah, tries to
back over the dudes that assaulted
her, and hits the bull in the road.
Sadly, the impact hasn't
done much to damage him.
He carries Sarah to his murder dungeon
so she could quote unquote, recover.
When she wakes up in the silence of
Lamb's the sell ass abandoned meat
processing warehouse, she finds
the surviving two of the three mean
girls he abducted, and they're tied
up and suspended from the ceiling.
Tara tries to free them,
but Jeff interrupts her.
Jeremy: We also, she very
much finds the third one too,
Emily: Well, yeah, that's
that's after the Small Chase.
Yeah.
She's dead.
She finds pieces of her during
the small chase that ensues.
Jeff eventually catches
Ben: but that one was, which one was that?
That was, that was Maka.
Maka, Maka
Michael: That was the worst one.
Ben: Yeah, like, Maka had
no redeeming qualities.
Maka was the one actively drowning, Sarah.
Emily: Oh, yeah, no, Maka
is absolutely the worst.
Ben: of value was, look, I may be a
psychopath, but horror movies have
trained me to devalue human life in this.
Death is coming, willy nilly.
And we are given such little to judge
people's whole existence on, and
what we are given in Makas is, this
is a black hole of a person who is
better off not being in the world.
Emily: that's something I definitely
want to talk about when we discuss
because there's some stuff here.
Ben: The only thing we are given to
judge the lifeguard's entire existence
is workplace sexual harassment.
That is that being's entire identity.
I know they say, don't judge by worst
moments, that is the man's only moment.
Emily: Yeah, that is the feather
upon which his heart is weighed.
And His heart is heavy.
Ben: The point I think I'm trying to make
is, Please don't, like, have me committed
for how fucked up I sound on this podcast.
Jeremy: please don't
sexually harass people.
Emily: yeah, don't do
Ben: Also that, also
Jeremy: Okay, Emily, the
last couple minutes of the
Ben: Sorry, Emily,
Emily: Yeah, be excellent to each other.
That doesn't really come
up in the movie, sadly.
Okay, so a small chase ensues.
Jeff catches Sarah, promises they
can be and queen killer, and he
gives her the knife to kill one of
her bullies, but she turns on him.
They struggle.
Sarah ends up stabbing him in the stomach
and ripping his throat out with her teeth.
It's pretty fucking metal.
His gun goes off, accidentally
blowing off Claudia's hand.
As light fades from Jeff the Killer's
eyes, any sort of twisted teenage fantasy
of escape with the psychopath fades
and Sarah takes a moment to lament.
The surviving girls who are still
hanging will still shame her and
call her Serdita, which means piggy.
She turns the gun on them,
but oh, she didn't kill them.
She just used her crack shot
hunting abilities to sever the
ropes at their wrists, freeing them.
Uh, She walks away in
a post traumatic haze.
Sweaty and blood soaked, she makes it to
the road and is picked up by Pedro, who
is able to barely cling to decency like
his torn shirt clings to his weary frame.
They drive to town for help.
The end.
Jeremy: as this film finished, I sat
in front of the credits, staring at it,
and Alicia, who had made her feelings
clear on the movie at this point,
she didn't like it, I was watching
these credits, and the only thing I
said was, I did not like this film.
Emily: yeah, it's not a fun horror movie.
Ben: No, it's not fun,
like, it's upsetting.
Like, it's an actively upsetting
film, like, this is a movie
where nobody is a good person.
And everyone makes the wrong
choices throughout the film.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: Michael, where
did you land on this one?
Michael: I mean, I enjoyed it as much
as you can enjoy this kind of movie.
It certainly was watchable.
Like relatable.
And also just like, it's very well made.
like,
Ben: very well made.
Yeah,
Michael: it's almost a
giallo in like a weird way.
Like this weird hybrid of like slasher
giallo movie, which I found fascinating
because I, Don't like giallo movies
for the stuff that makes them giallo.
I like giallo for like the weird country
life aspects of some giallo movies.
Ben: only one
Michael: Like, don't torture a
duckling like this gave me a lot
of, don't torture, a duckling vibes.
So I thought that was
like pretty interesting
Ben: Yeah, the only one that came
out of this movie looking good was...
I guess the Spanish countryside.
That looks like a really...
That looks like a really nice
town to, like, spend a summer in.
Jeremy: Yeah, this, the center of this
movie gets really fucking Hamlet y.
Like, she just spends a lot of this
movie, like, not knowing what to
do and contemplating what to do.
you Know, except if Hamlet's
mom just talked shit constantly.
Because her mom is the fucking worst.
Ben: Oh my god, the
Jeremy: I will say, I will say the one
thing I will say for the mom, and I said
this during watching it, was when uh,
when the mom of one of the kidnapped
girls starts harassing her in the street,
the mom is ready to throw fucking hands.
She's ready to go.
Ben: Also, when she finds the
bloody towel and she's just like,
You fucking cleaned this shit up.
Emily: Yeah,
Michael: she's interesting 'cause she
is like the worst as a mom toward Sarah,
but also is like hyper protective.
Luckily, my mom is not like this,
but I know people with moms who are
just like the fucking worst, but if
anyone, but they're the fucking worst
to their kid, because only they can
be the fucking worst to their kid.
If anyone else tries to mess with
their kid, they will take them down.
And I thought that was was an
interesting way to handle that character.
Jeremy: big brother in
a mafia movie, like,
Michael: Yeah,
Emily: yeah,
Ben: One
Jeremy: she'll ruin your day
and your life, but God forbid
somebody else says shit to you.
Emily: yeah, well, I
Ben: nobody ruins my family's
life but me and maybe the girl.
Emily: yeah, the, the mom's
whole dynamic, I mean, she's in
charge and she's, definitely,
Ben: That dad's not even henpecked.
He didn't need to get pecked.
He was da Like, he didn't
need to get pecked to learn,
he was there from day one.
Michael: he is hen checked out.
He is a checked out
Ben: that's what he is, yes.
Emily: he is just the
substrate in that head house.
Ben: He's not, like, meek,
he's fucking disassociating.
Emily: yeah, I feel like there's a certain
element of psycho to the mom as well.
And the fact that she's like, you
know, she's ready for violence.
But she's also, like, she's so,
she's so horrible to her daughter.
And dismissive.
Jeremy: And Alicia and I were
talking about this line afterwards.
The one that got me is, Stop
hiccuping, you look like an idiot.
Like,
Emily: Yeah!
Jeremy: what the fuck?
Mom!
Ben: a, such a, she
can't do anything to win.
Emily: Yeah, and there's also these
scenes where she's trying to, like,
sneak around the house and shit,
and the mom is always catching her.
Like, there's no, there's no, like,
tension at this point when she's,
like, trying to sneak around.
It's, like, always mom just,
like, looks at her and is like,
what the fuck are you doing?
Ben: She like, can't keep any secrets.
Like, the mom knows about her
going to the pool every day.
Emily: yeah.
Ben: Like, the mom probably knows
about the secret food stash.
Like, Sarah is given no
privacy and no room on her own.
Emily: Yeah, and that's
one of the things about
Ben: even have a door?
Like, she doesn't have a door.
It's
Jeremy: has a bead curtain.
Ben: thing.
Emily: Yeah, I mean, I don't know
if that's, if that's because she
doesn't have a door, or is that it's
too fucking hot to close the door.
I don't know, because it's hot there.
Jeremy: Yeah, I don't know if
it's a Spain thing or what.
Ben: But I do think it, it adds to this
feeling of like, She has, like, she
is always being watched by her mom.
Emily: yeah and that's a, that's
a big element of the movie is that
Sarah is just constantly traumatized.
Like, this movie is watching her be
constantly traumatized, and that's
on top of the trauma of just being
bullied constantly, and I'm, you know,
I don't think that this is like, this,
this is not the peak moment of the
bullying, I, you know, in her life, I
just feel like this is everyday shit,
Ben: Oh, when the mom just As
casually as can be, there's gonna
be like, Oh yeah, that vicious dog
scares the shit out of her every day.
Whatevs.
Emily: yeah, yeah,
Michael: Well, I think like there's
the, those tons of little, just like
microaggressions, like when she's
at the, like the, the little corner
shop and she's contemplating buying,
like the, they're like hostess,
like, the snowballs, like whatever
Ben: Oh, even the fucking, yeah,
Michael: Yeah.
The clerk is like, are you
sure you want to buy that?
Ben: Yeah, even the clerk is like, I would
rather fat shame you than make money.
Jeremy: That was the point where
I was most on the serial killer's
side, when he comes along behind
her and buys us those cakes anyway,
and then gives them to her later.
Which, like, I don't know.
I'm, I'm sort of divided on some of
the stuff in this, because, like, I...
You know, I was always a fat kid, like,
I am familiar with a lot of this, like,
shame and torment and bullying and stuff I
think it is possible, like, and this movie
does project a case in which she is fat
and it is not a moral failing on her her,
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: her family eats in a way that,
like, you know, she's, they don't eat
healthy, they're both larger people
too, like it makes sense that she's
heavy and then they feel the need to
put the like, you know, shame closet, or
shame chest of hidden food in her room
as well, which I was like, I don't...
I don't think we need that.
Like, I don't need this to be the whale.
I didn't need the whale to be the whale.
Like, people can be fat without it being,
like, something they're trying to do.
Like, I, I've been there, man, and I
know, like, hiding food and, and, like,
sneaking it is a thing, but also, like,
her parents at the beginning of the movie
are not such that she needs to, so that
then doesn't really make sense in context.
You know, it does get to a point later
on where she like, she tells her mom
that she's upset about the kids calling
her Piggy, and her mom takes it as A
sign of like, the fact that she is upset
about being tormented about being fat,
the mom takes as an assault on her from
the kid and is like, well, you want to
be upset about being told you're fat.
Here, eat nothing but lettuce for dinner.
It's
Ben: there is,
Jeremy: fucking lady.
Ben: there is some real narcissistic
parenting going on here with the mother.
Especially in that, oh, you being
bullied and traumatized, but you did it
in a way that makes it look bad on me.
Emily: yeah
Ben: Which.
I mean, one thing I do appreciate about
this movie, I want to say, though, is
it did increase my Spanish vocabulary
a little, in that I now know that YOLO
is the Spanish word for YOLO, did not
realize YOLO had made it to Spain, and
very apologetic to Europe for that.
Emily: At least Maka,
Jeremy: an abbreviation
Ben: It doesn't, but it's not subtitles,
they clearly say out loud, YOLO.
Wild.
Emily: Oh, the internet is powerful.
Ben: It's a loan word!
It's an official loan word!
Michael: I have to
admit, I watched the dub.
Because I have a thing where like,
if there's a dub, I'll watch the
dub unless it's an atrocious dub.
And this was not a great dub,
but it wasn't the worst dub.
So there is, there's one
Ben: watch a dub if it's atrocious.
Michael: I, yeah, I guess it's kind of,
there's like either like, Well, you gotta
watch it if it's like the worst ever.
But there is a bit during like, I
think when the cops are confronting
her and the mom are like taken away
and there's like the crowd or whatever.
And like, she says something about
how they call her Piggy and whatnot.
There is, and I don't know if
this is in if this is just from
the dub or how this is done.
in the translation with subtitles.
But there is one of the women in the crowd
says, you know, she actually is quite fat.
And it's the, okay, that the way
the voice actor who does the dub
delivers that line cracked me up.
I just started laughing because it was
like, it was like a Simpson's voice.
It was, it was very,
Emily: Oh, yeah.
God,
Michael: quite fat.
Ben: Speaking of the police in this movie,
Emily: you for clarifying.
This
Ben: the two cops in this movie,
we've got a CW actor, and Spanish
Jean Reno, and I think one of the
weirdest Most throwaway details of this
movie, is that they're father and son?
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: father and son police partners?
Emily: Well, it doesn't, I mean,
that makes a little bit of sense
Jeremy: family business in Spain.
Michael: A
Emily: small town.
Yeah.
Michael: But it cracked.
That's one of the things
Ben: Yeah, it cracked me up.
Michael: But like the cops
are like, they do nothing.
Like they could be cut out of this
movie other than like helping the other
parents find the kids in the woods.
Like the dog never plays a part.
They, yeah, they drive around looking
for a bull, which nothing pays off
with the cops, not the dog, not
like their relationship, nothing.
And that is like, I don't know if that's
brilliant screenwriting or terrible
screenwriting cause that, cause that
it's just, they're a funny red herring.
And I did enjoy
Ben: isn't like their last line
being like, this isn't over yet, and
then they just never appear again?
Michael: a fair guy.
Emily: yeah,
Ben: Amazing.
Fucking
Jeremy: I, I thought it
Ben: No, no, it's 10 out of
Jeremy: to have like the, the teen
20 something son be like the, the
dogged, angry cop that wants to keep
badgering her for questions after
the mom says it's over and the dad's
like, it's fine, just let her go.
Michael: let it go, son.
Ben: Well, my favorite moment with
the cops is when the sun cop is like,
yeah, the hashtag cyberbullying you?
I saw it.
No big deal.
I kind of, I kind of cyberbullied
you too a little bit to be tbh.
Michael: I like that post.
You know, you
Ben: you know.
Look, did I retweet it?
Look, did I reshare it?
Of course I did, but, you
know, I'm sorry, but...
Emily: yeah.
Ben: Like, just gotta be like, I'm
aware that you're being cyberbullied.
I've seen it.
It was pretty funny.
I left an emo I left a
I left a laugh emoji.
Emily: mom too,
Jeremy: it with my co worker slash dad
Emily: And it wasn't until then that the
mom is like, actually we want a lawyer.
Ben: Yeah, which I love that they're
like fucking TV and movies because
I have to wonder like is that even
a part of the Spanish legal justice
system or is the mom just watching
like fucking the law and order imports?
Emily: Well, obviously nobody in
this town is watching uh, any sort of
procedural because like the fucking
Prime scenes are just being trod on
and spit on and like, everybody's
like, taking fucking selfies on them.
Like, you know, I understand in a small
town, something happens and everybody's
doing like, disaster tourism, you know?
I
Ben: town, which seems to conceive
into like just one street.
Emily: yeah,
Ben: It's just one street people walk
back and forth along and everyone
can see you and gossip about you.
Emily: And there's a pool, which is
Jeremy: and the pool looks
like an aqueduct, like,
Emily: Yeah, it's
Jeremy: this a pool?
I, I guess.
Emily: devoted swimming area.
Like, I think it's, there's some,
some natural water going on.
Ben: When she says I went to the
river and they're like, you lied.
I'm like fucking.
Did she?
That, that was pretty fuckin river y.
Emily: Yeah, I mean, I know
that there was a river.
Michael: The logistics are a little
weird, like of when he killed
the waitress and the lifeguard,
like when, when did he do that?
When did he have time to tie
up the lifeguard and just
like drop them in the water?
Cause he's like still there and
everyone is still kind of around
cause the mean girls are like
Ben: no, so, there's, I think it's
supposed to be that he had just killed
the lifeguard and was now just going
for a swim, because, like, it's hard to
make out, but I think there's a scene
early on where you see Sarah swim past,
like, a dead body caught on a rock.
Emily: she is swimming and
Jeremy: Yeah, to be fair, we
can't see him when she gets there.
He pops up from under the
water as she's getting in.
So maybe he was in the process
of you know, leaving, leaving the
lifeguard dead under the water.
Emily: Yeah.
Michael: but we went from a very crowded
swim area to like, nobody, and you know,
Sarah goes in and goes to swim, but the,
but the mean girls are still like nearby.
So it's like, I just, I'm trying
to figure out what the timeline
is and where everybody went.
Jeremy: I think
Ben: Their bully
Jeremy: the next day.
Ben: so they went back to the pool.
Michael: That's a real thing,
so I believe that could happen.
Ben: Well, no, it has to be the same
day, because they were being like, We
were supposed to go to the festival
that night, and they never showed up.
Emily: Yeah.
Well, I think this killer is just
really quick and Also, people in
the town don't give a shit until,
like, it's a it's a to do thing.
Ben: Goddamn RPG sized town.
Like, this is the town you go, like,
This is literally the town you find,
like, the same amount of people and
geography as, like, A 16 bit RPG.
Emily: I mean, these is a these small
towns like this exist, like, fully.
You
Ben: Yes, but I like the idea that people
can just barge into each other's, like,
homes because no one ever closes the door.
Emily: yeah, I mean,
Michael: You just walk in, you start
smashing pots, looking for hearts.
Emily: this, right,
Jeremy: I was gonna say, go
next door, talk to Professor
Oak, get you a Pokemon, the
Emily: yeah, no, this guy
Jeremy: Pallet Town.
Emily: probably could have
gotten everybody in the town.
Like, he got a lot of people in that town.
He was real quick.
I also think he
Ben: in this case, you're...
Your starters are knife,
gun, and neckbite.
Choose wisely.
Emily: Yeah.
Don't let the killer get the gun.
Ah.
Ben: Neckbite evolved into Vampirzard!
Emily: I wish that there was
more with her and the gun.
Like, cause they, they mentioned at
the very beginning that she was a
crack shot or like she shot a rabbit.
Michael: Yeah, that she regularly
goes hunting with her dad.
Ben: yeah, I
Michael: Until you mentioned it
in the recap, I did not make that
connection between her hunting
and being able to, I just thought,
you know, it's the end of the
Jeremy: I felt like they belabored
it, like, early on, they were like,
Here's a picture of her hunting,
here's the dead thing she shot rabbits.
And then, like, fucking an hour
and a half later, there's a gun!
I was like, oh, god,
finally, paid that off.
Emily: I, so there's a couple of
things that I want to ask the forum.
Ben: alright.
Emily: One, do you think that the
bullies should have been shot?
Ben: I think the bullies...
I think they had, even by horror
movie standards, they had gotten
their comeuppance with the kidnapping
slash down a hand for Claudia.
Emily: Okay.
Jeremy: technically, Claudia
didn't do any bullying.
Claudia was
Ben: No, Claudia, no, that is,
Jeremy: didn't do anything about it.
Ben: no, that is not true.
Claudia stole her fucking towel and
helped with the attempt at drowning.
Emily: Yeah, yeah, she did.
She didn't, she, just because she
Jeremy: the attempted drowning, or did she
just stand there and do nothing, because,
Ben: No, she eventually, she, for
a while, but then eventually she
started like joining in at the end.
Emily: Yeah, the fact
that she stole the towel.
I was like,
Ben: It may be if Maka was still alive,
I'd be like a little bit more like,
mmm, but I think since Maka kind of
bit it, like, I I'm okay with them
just being traumatized and maimed.
This is
Jeremy: Rosie has her own issues,
I mean, even the mom, when she says
who's bullying her, later refers to
them as, you know, She just calls the
other girls by their names, and then
is like, And, and Rosie, that slut.
I was like,
Emily: oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's, there's a lot going
Ben: This whole town is so fucking bitchy.
This is the meanest, most toxic
fucking town I've ever seen.
Emily: That's why I was thinking, like,
I was thinking that the, the kill rate
was going to be higher or there was
going to be a little bit more vengeance.
Like, I wasn't sure where
they were going to go with it.
I'm glad that they went
where they did, because it's
Ben: killer definitely could have
done more damage if his hand to
hand strategy wasn't swing your
hands wildly like a shaved bear.
Michael: I mean, I think that guy
was a shaved bear, so I think it
Ben: Like, he was just, like, he wasn't
punching or even hitting people so much
as he was just, like, mauling people
with his, like, with his open hand.
Emily: he fully went after the the dad,
like, he was the, the chimpanzee from
Get Out, or not Get Out, chimpanzee
Ben: Us.
No.
Nope.
It has to be one of the look!
One of these one word
titles has to be a Jordan
Emily: Yeah, yeah, I
was like, it's one word.
It has a P in it.
It's not up.
Up is the one.
It's a very different movie.
But yeah, I know, like, he fully went,
like, full crazed chimp on that guy.
And not even that
Ben: up!
Emily: Jordan peels up, that's
what that's what Nope is.
You're welcome.
Ben: Damn, is it too late
to change the title of
Michael: I did not say thank you.
Ben: it too late to change
the title of our nope episode?
Emily: Yes.
Ben: Alright, so also, one
thing I want to highlight.
Uh, That
Emily: Peels Up.
Ben: the song Sarah is listening
to on her pink iPho pod or
pink iPhone fucking slaps.
That song goes so hard, and I love
it, and I looked it up, so if you want
to listen to it, it is called Night
of the Living Dead by Agoraphobia.
Emily: That's awesome.
And I, you know,
Jeremy: would listen to that
or a song called Agoraphobia by
the Night of the Living Dead.
Really, either way,
Ben: Yeah, great names!
Great names all around.
Emily: yeah,
Michael: I would get that back
to the idea of, like, should she
have killed the remaining bullies?
I guess it depends on, like,
if, like, what you want the
message of the movie to be.
Yeah,
Ben: God, what is the
message of this movie?
Emily: don't do this.
Michael: it's
Jeremy: don't treat people shitty.
They
Michael: because, yeah,
don't treat people shitty.
I think it's
Jeremy: they might be the only
one that can save you with their
crackshot shooting skills from the
killer that has a crush on them.
I
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: And her neck biting skills.
Michael: Which I think, I think
that's kind of, that's something to
explore that like, like, she bites,
ingests, she eats like the killer.
So the, you know, that,
that's definitely on purpose.
And then, and then also to look at
the end when like her walking away and
she gets picked up by the boyfriend.
Like, I know they are riding
back toward town, but, Yeah.
I, I guess it's, I think it's
open to whether or not they
actually stay in that town.
Like both of them.
Like, of course, like, he sells her out
but he sells her out due to his own,
like, issues with the town and his family.
And we don't know where he's
Ben: was she was not going
to fucking say a thing.
At that point in time, I
Michael: I, yeah, I don't know what
Ben: She was absolutely gonna Like, she
was absolutely gonna throw Pedro under
the bus, so I don't really blame Pedro
for throwing her under the bus first.
Emily: mean, I do.
Jeremy: Mean, I'm, I am pro them don't
stop believing the fuck out of there, so,
Emily: like, I think that they're,
they're kind of even at this point.
Especially after Pedro gets
his, like, gets beaten by
his dad, which is fucked up.
And I don't think she really
knew about that either.
Ben: Oh god, yeah, that's right, he
mentions his dad is like, a bad dude,
and then he shows up at the end of the
movie with a fucking arm and a cast.
Emily: Yeah.
And he
Ben: That's so fucking dark!
Emily: Yeah, no, and he has a bruise,
like, so when they're coming back
from the police station or walking
back from the police station,
Pedro's dad pulls up to them in his
car and he says, are you guys good?
Do you need a ride?
And mom is like, no, she's on her period.
She just bleed all over your seat,
which I'm like, Jesus Christ.
then, yeah.
Ben: the worst.
M Oh, that mom.
Emily: And then you see
Pedro in the passenger seat.
He's got a big old black eye.
So, yeah, like, there's,
Jeremy: even wait until they
left the police station.
Emily: just, yeah.
So
Ben: the lobby.
They were, the police
gave him a high five.
Emily: maybe, I mean, who knows in this
town, but like, that's, I mean, I'm glad
that they didn't, I'm glad that they left,
they left off the movie where they did.
And I will say that I was expecting
some more vengeance from the
the title card of the movie that
was on Hulu, where it was where
Michael: Right?
That definitely implies,
Ben: Oh, that
Michael: goes on a killing
Ben: a red herring.
I was absolutely expre expecting
like, sissy style, we're following
the killer, the protagonist killer.
Emily: I was hoping that she was gonna
like, hunt down the the killer guy, and
like, and then we would have the same
kind of moment at a, at a, like, with
her friends, but she's just like, okay, I
fucked the situation up, and now I'm just
gonna go into, like, I'm going to take
my agency back and kill this guy and like
hunt him and I don't, I didn't, I wasn't
as I wasn't as into what happened where,
you know, she didn't have a lot of agency.
She was, she was dragged to
his murder mansion to become
Ben: What, you, you, you didn't like
when she used the stuffed monkey
to masturbate to the serial killer?
Emily: No,
Ben: not a crowd pleaser for ya?
Emily: no, no, I will say this.
Ben: This is a very
upsetting movie, y'all.
Very upsetting.
He should be though, I like that name.
Jeremy: Azazin.
Emily: Is a creepypasta character
that much like Slender Man, is the The
subject of many Mary Sue fanfics, where
Jeff the Killer shows up and kills the
family and then they go on a killing
spree together and they're in love.
Which is sort of,
Michael: born killers.
Emily: yeah, it's a very
natural born killers.
And
Ben: That is a very specific
teenage girl fantasy.
Emily: I don't know if it's that specific.
Ben: One of my thoughts of this
movie is, granted most of the movie
is Sarah, like, making the horrible
decision of not telling anybody about
what's going on and just lying but in
the initial moment of, she sees this
kidnapping going on, Claudia's begging
for help and she just stands there and
lets it go and lets them drive away.
What was she supposed
to do in that scenario?
Emily: that's what I'm saying, too.
Like, that is, she's, she is so fucking
scared and she has been, like, walking
home barefoot on this hot ass pavement
with, like, her, barely her bikini on,
Ben: has been drowned, robbed, chased,
and sexually assaulted in the last, like,
Jeremy: herself in front of the...
Michael: herself.
Yep.
Emily: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Jeremy: point too, which I was
like, I've really seen enough
movies where women pee themselves in
fright in front of a serial killer.
You know, not that she didn't have enough
horrible shit happening to her already.
They had to go ahead and
throw that one on the fire.
Ben: You know, like, she is
Emily: stuff going on in this movie, I
Ben: Like, she needs so much therapy
for this day alone, before she
even stumbles on the kidnapping.
Emily: Yeah, yeah, I, that's a, and yeah,
that's like a, a, a big point for me,
because like, she does make a lot of bad
decisions, and she's very confused, like
the only person that's ever shown her
any real empathy that she feels or like
any sort of attraction is this fucking
serial killer that she's terrified of.
Now, you know, also when you are a
teenager and you sometimes are into the
dudes and sometimes you're like, edgy,
you know, like, there's, but it's not
always something that you're really aware
of how problematic it is, you know, and
sometimes it's not real, like, you know,
it's not real, like, the Jeff the Killer
shit, like, a lot of people know it's not
real unless, you know, they're the girls
that killed people in First Slender Man,
Ben: I did
Emily: that is an extreme outlier.
Ben: what I did find very effective
was this movie's depiction of Sarah
as somebody who is just in, like, a
fucking goddamn hurricane earthquake
of puberty, and like, and hormones,
and absolutely overwhelming emotions.
I do think the movie made an interesting
choice with its Jeff the killer in that
it chose someone who is like very, like
very strong and powerful looking, but also
they took the time to like make sure he
had a very pronounced like gut and belly.
And it's very interesting that in set
that like, you know, you can to try to
psychoanalyze it, you know, like in her
sexualizing him, it's almost her seeing.
the attributes that she's been taught to
hate about herself, but recontextualizing
them as like in a sexy and powerful,
Emily: yeah, a little bit.
Ben: Or just like, like the attraction,
I don't know, that to me, I just, I
noticed that I wondered if that part of
it was just like, you know, if through
being attracted to him led to a measure
of, Ex body acceptance for herself.
Emily: I feel like they were so
different, like, in terms of how
the, like, the characters were
different enough and age and stuff.
I mean, that is, that is
Ben: I mean, look, it's, it's a,
it is also a crazy fucking, it is
a romance between a serial killer
and an underage teenage girl, like,
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: it's fucked up, and I didn't like
watching it, but it's what the movie
gave me, so I'm working with what I got.
Jeremy: yeah, I,
Emily: bear analysis.
You are correct
Jeremy: I feel very similar about like a
lot of the movie because I, I don't know
if I have just read too many comic books
and watched too much My Little Pony, but
I just, I wanted a moment of like, self
realization, like choosing at some point
in this movie, and even like as she is
at the end, like choosing to save these
people rather than go with the serial
killer, it's still like she's crying and
upset about the choice that she's making.
She's still like not happy with the one
choice that she does make in the film,
and there's there's no moment where
she is like really victorious, right?
Like where she's won or at least
chosen to do something and like, you
know, even if she were going out in
a blaze of glory, you know, at least
it would be like something that you,
you have like a rah rah moment for.
This movie denies you that.
You cannot have a rah rah moment.
Ben: I do not come out
Jeremy: and horrifying.
Ben: of this movie feeling like she
is going to be okay in the long run.
Emily: Yeah.
Now, yeah, this is a real
requiem for a dream kind of.
Not, well, not quite that bad.
Requiem for a Dream ended
with, like, a really big, fuck
Ben: I mean, they still, both movies
end with a character losing an arm.
Emily: That's, that's true.
That's true.
Spoilers for Requiem for a Dream.
I mean, he lost a whole arm.
She just lost a hand.
But, you know, who knows with all that.
There's probably not cemetery.
Jeremy: that's also a horrifying wound.
Like the way that they do that, the
Ben: Oh, like the bone is
Jeremy: off screen and you don't know
exactly what what's happened until
like the blood is dripping and then it
pans back up to just her, her arm just
split at the wrist and it was like, ah,
Emily: Yeah, that was really well done
Jeremy: quite, quite like in men which
we talked about recently where the,
the hand and arm is just split open.
Emily: yeah, it's less fantastical.
I mean, there's the, there's part of
it in men that is not fantastical,
but it's like the, the way that they
have, like, the, the bracelet fall and,
like, the beads of the bracelet fall
and then are, are followed by blood.
And
Ben: Martha Wayne.
Emily: yeah, it was, it was
Michael: Wow.
Yeah.
Emily: where Martha Wayne's
pearls fell and then her blood.
Yeah.
And then she was like,
Ben: And then she screamed because
she only got a shot in the hand.
But uh, No, that was also the moment where
I'm like, oh, Claudia's surviving this.
Cause again, in this fucked up horror
world where life has no value and all sins
are meted out in like, horrific physical,
like, punishment, I'm like, Okay, for
your, I feel like lose, getting kidnapped
and tortured and losing a hand, that,
that fits your crimes of participating in
bullying slash attempted drowning, like,
this, I, I would now feel bad if you died,
Emily: And then she, and she
and Rossi were like, Rossi.
Ben: Roshi was like, still calling
her Piggy after saving her.
I was, and like, you know, and Sarah just
turns around, whips around and shoots,
like, my reaction there was like, What
the fuck did you think was gonna happen?
That's just a you're just too dumb to live
moment, but, I guess it worked out for ya.
Emily: And you know, I mean, that's good.
Good for Sarah.
Like, honestly, I'm glad that,
that she made the decisions,
she made a good decision.
Well it was part of a good decision.
I don't think it was a fully good,
I don't know if she went for help.
She didn't tell Pedro, like, oh, by the
way, they're uh, over there and bleeding
Michael: Yeah.
See, that's why my headcanon
is the two of them just left.
Left
Emily: out.
Ben: Yeah, Claudia will die
Michael: say anything.
Yeah.
Emily: yeah.
I don't know, it's, there's so much
research that I've done about like
trauma victims and trauma response and
things like that, that with Sarah, I'm
just like, well, yeah, that's how it is.
You know, , this movie does
a really good job of showing
things through her perspective.
So, you know, we have a limited
our understanding of these other
characters is so limited, that
is hard to be objective at times.
And, you know, there is sort of an
objective truth going through it,
but it's really, really hard to
navigate through all of the trauma and
everything that she's dealing with.
Because from the start she is struggling
another important but not as important.
Content warning math homework.
Jeremy: that first scene though, she's
looking at the like, um, Instagram
post of the girl taunting her and
then she accidentally likes it.
Like she accidentally clicks it and I
was like, Oh my God, that hurt my heart.
Like I felt it.
I felt it happen.
And I was like, Oh no.
Emily: Yeah.
And like, you see her how she's kind of.
All she can really do with her life is
observe and, like, picket this wound.
of this, like, social media bullying.
Without any way, and at this moment to.
Deal with it.
Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, cause we're
definitely giving the indication that
Claudia was like the only person who
was her friend that she got along with.
And Claudia has joined the mean
girl cadre sort of reluctantly
joining them and picking on her, at
least not doing anything about it.
Yeah, that
Ben: Yeah, Maka is definitely
the ringleader, which is why...
Yeah, it's easier letting having
the other two survive when
Maka just fucking bites it.
Emily: yeah.
I mean, but Claudia's uh,
inaction is, I think, just as bad.
I think we can all agree that inaction
of that kind is, you know, I mean,
you're, she's still a teenager, so
that's another thing is that, you know,
there's certain things, things straight
Ben: well there's that moment where
Claudia realizes that Sarah has not
brought the police or anyone else
to help, and realizes that Sarah
didn't even tell anyone they'd been
kidnapped, and is just yelling why,
just screaming like, Sarah, why?
And I just started to be like...
You fucking tried to drown her
Emily: Yeah.
Michael: You know why, on some level.
You know why, Claudia.
Emily: yeah.
Ben: why?
Yeah, like, you know why?
Jeremy: You had this one coming.
Emily: So guys, so listeners if you're
ever in a desperate situation and
your hero is somebody that you said
something mean to at one point, wait
until after the, you know, transaction
has occurred to bring that shit up, you
Jeremy: or just say sorry?
Michael: Yeah, open, open with sorry.
Emily: Yeah.
Now, if they're a shithead, it's
different, but in this situation when,
you know, if you're somebody who's, who
has bullied somebody, even if it was,
like, long in the past, and you see
that, that glint of doubt, and I know
it's hard because you're gonna be in,
you know, you're gonna be traumatized,
you're gonna have tunnel vision, blah,
blah, blah, especially if you're tied
up, you don't have much options anyway,
so just look in that, look in those
eyeballs, look right there, and say,
hey, thank you, For saving my life.
Sorry if I've ever been a shithead.
Even if somebody I was nice to, somebody
like my best friend, and they saved
my life, I'd be like, I'm sorry I
was ever a shithead to you if I ever
was, because now I owe you my life.
And
Jeremy: all the conversations that way.
Hey, it's been a while.
Haven't seen you in a month or two.
Sorry if I was ever a shithead to you.
Yeah, I, I guess that, that leads
Ben: gonna start opening up this podcast.
Jeremy: Hey,
Ben: there, Ben Kahn here.
Sorry if I've been a shithead.
Jeremy: So I guess here's
a complicated question.
Do we feel like this movie is feminist?
Ben: I'm gonna say yes, I mean you
have the sheer amount of women both in
front of and behind the camera and the
focus like and again, this is a fucked
up mess of a woman, but this is very
centered on You know, a teenage girl
and all the overwhelming emotions that
she's coming through, like, I'm gonna
say, like, this is very centered on the
woman's point of view and experience.
Emily: And of course we have our
women's wrongs caveat support women's
Ben: Oh my god, so many women's wrongs.
Emily: but, you know, we do have.
I do appreciate the fact that we do see,
Ben: Will you leave that
stuffed monkey alone, Sarah?
Emily: Yeah.
Like,
Ben: that monkey out of your shame.
Emily: we're seeing Sarah at her
most vulnerable, like, constantly.
But she still comes around and when
she's like, this is very like, a lot
of this reminds me of yellow jackets
where, like, under a certain amount of
pressure, a teenage girl will go for the
throat, like, literally, and I find that
highly satisfying, just seeing, like.
A bullied teenage girl go feral and,
like, bite the jugular out of a serial
killer, like, I find that a beautiful
distilled image you know, I don't know
if it was, I didn't know if we needed all
of, like, the, the, her pissing herself,
the, the strength duration, the, you know,
all of that, like, to really hit home
the fact that she's having a bad time.
But I think that we're, you
know, the, the honesty is brutal
and that, I think, is feminist.
Jeremy: You got any thoughts
on that one, Michael?
Michael: Yeah, it's one of those things
that like, if you look at like, kind
of evaluate on a kind of behind the
scenes, like, is it a feminist film?
And then is it a feminist
message within the film?
Yes to the first, and yes to the second?
Like, so, so yeah.
Jeremy: I think there's...
I don't know, I, I, the only, the only
real problem I have with any of this is,
is sort of like how it deals with obesity
and her being fat, like, I think there's
a certain amount of the movie that like,
it has to focus on that, we have to talk
about that, it's important to, I mean,
that is the story in a lot of ways but
I do think it also like, goes out of its
way to paint her unflatteringly in some
ways and to, you know, do stuff like the,
you know, the hidden stash of food and
things that like, You know, feel like if
you're portraying something like bulimia,
like a hidden stash of food, makes sense.
If you're, like, this character, aside
from, like, the, you know, the woman
at the corner store, like, nobody,
nobody stops her from getting food.
She doesn't have to hide food.
Her parents also eat.
I mean, her parents eat poorly.
They eat a lot of meat.
They eat a lot of, like, bad for you
food on top of whatever, you know,
candy and junk and everything there is.
So like, there's a certain amount of
it that feels the person writing and
directing it doesn't, doesn't know, like,
doesn't know what it's like to be fat.
Hasn't had those experiences.
In the same way that, you know,
people have called the whale out
for this in the same way that like,
higher banks running around town in
a fat suit for a day isn't actually
learning what it's like to be fat.
Like, you know, it, it feels
like that in some ways to me.
So like, that doesn't land entirely.
I don't know if that necessarily
counts as a question of being feminist
or more of a physical disability and
mental health kind of thing, but I
think it misses the mark a little bit.
I don't know if this is a case
where like it trying to hit the
mark is some, some excuse for it.
Unfortunately, it's a movie where like.
As much dialogue as there is,
not a lot is said in this movie.
It goes out of its way not to
tell you what conclusions to draw.
Sarah actually says very little in the
movie and the killer says even less.
The, the people who do most of
the talking are like the mom and
the bullies and stuff like that.
So like, yeah, it, it is.
In a very European way, I think,
determined not to tell you what to take
away from this movie and not to, not,
determined not to tell you what anybody
is thinking at any time which is, is
sort of frustrating in a movie where,
like, I said, there is no, like, A ha,
lightbulb, exciting, rah rah kind of
moment to like, pin those feelings on.
I don't know, that's a thing
I know a lot of people value,
that sort of thing in a film.
I just found it very frustrating
in this particular film.
Emily: Yeah.
Michael: I want to jump back to the,
to the food hiding thing, because
here's why I think it works in this.
Cause often the like hiding a
food isn't necessarily about
having access or free access.
It's about having control and Sarah
has no control at all in her life.
So a lot is, so it is, so it's more
that I think she hides the food because.
she can control when she accesses
it in a household that although like
everyone, her life like also it's like
shit, they all have opinions about it.
And she doesn't need to hear like her
mom being like, what are you eating?
Like her mom might be like, okay,
like, yeah, there's cookies in the
house, have, have the cookies, but
I'm going to like comment on it.
Ben: Yeah.
Oh, like the
Michael: so having that stash lets
her go into her private space and
Ben: I mean, the scene,
Michael: just want to fucking eat
a cookie and not hear about it.
So I think that's, that's where it works
is, is part of the aspect of Sarah, not
having any real control over her life.
Ben: the scene immediately before that is
the mom just barges in on Sarah taking a
shower and not like, Oh shoot, I'm sorry.
But just being like, yep, I'm here.
Yep.
You're taking a shower.
Well, I'm here just barking orders at you.
I don't give a shit.
Like what you've got going on.
Like not even when you're showering,
can you have any privacy or control?
Emily: I also love how the mom
Jeremy: bustin up in there.
Emily: Ha ha ha ha ha!
Jeremy: Just doesn't care what's going
on, just walks right into the room.
Yeah, I think it's, I think that's
a completely valid point, Michael.
I think...
It does make sense in that context.
I do just, I think as somebody that
I feel like I've seen movies try to
tackle this, I would just like to see a
movie where like, we don't necessarily
have all of the symptoms, right?
Like we don't have, the, the person
who is fat doesn't make every possible
wrong health choice and doesn't
also have a hidden thing of food.
And it, like, you know, something where,
and I don't think this movie quite gets
to that point, but a lot of movies, kind
of, a lot of media, period, sort of, hold
people being overweight as, like, a moral
failing, and there are plenty of people
who are overweight that, like, don't hide
food and aren't constantly eating and,
you know, just have different Different
lives, different metabolisms, you know,
the, the food isn't necessarily the
driving force of their whole life and you
know, this, this movie very much is from,
you know, the, the fact that her dad is
a butcher, she lives in a house above a
butcher shop, she eats food constantly,
you know, throughout the film, the food
is very central and it'd be nice to
occasionally have films with fat people
in them where the food is not like at
the center of everything all the time.
Emily: Yeah, it's not about them eating.
Like, there's not a connection that is
explicit of, like They're fat and they
also like to eat, like, because it's
not as connected as people think it is.
Ben: I forgot, when
Emily: yeah,
Ben: I was doing the Lost, my Lost re
watch, I had forgotten just how many fat
jokes there were at Hurley's expense.
And then that article about
Damon Lindelof came out.
Emily: I am not familiar
with that particular.
Ben: Let's just say Makin Lost was
a pretty not great time for a lot of
people of marginalized identities.
Michael: Oh yeah.
Emily: Yeah.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Jeremy: To hear that.
Emily: Do any of you think that the
way that Sarah was presented in all
of her vulnerability, whether it be
like during the trauma and everything.
Do you think that anything,
any of that was exploitative?
Like, do you think that
she was sexualized?
Ben: I don't think
Jeremy: a line, man.
It's,
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: there's a lot of, we, we talk
about those, those shots in Texas
Chainsaw Massacre where they choose to
shoot right behind the girl's ass to
show you something completely different,
and there's, like, Almost all the
shots of Sarah are at like back height.
So like you're, you know, they're
especially when she's walking home
with her bathing suit on, like they
make a big point of keeping her
whole body in the frame all the time.
So you're You know, seeing
her being uncomfortable.
Ben: I mean, in that scene, there's, when
she's being chased by the guys in the car,
At one point, she unties and takes off her
bikini top and then ties it back on, and
I still don't know what the fuck that was.
Emily: that was one of them took, they,
they untied the top of the bikini.
Like, that's a thing that dudes do
Jeremy: Yeah.
When one of the guys
picked her up, they, they
Ben: I hadn't seen that.
I thought she, like, I thought
she, like, untied it herself.
Emily: no, she, they had untied it.
Michael: I thought at one point it broke.
And so she was like trying to like fix it.
But I could be misremembering that.
Ben: that makes more sense.
Emily: Yeah, I mean, I could, like, I
just assumed because she was assaulted
that they untied her bikini, cause, Hm.
Jeremy: also this is completely,
completely unrelated because it's, you
know, realistic for the story, but it,
it then makes me irritated that it's
so fun and so difficult for people
of any sort of size to find swimwear
in their, their size, especially
women any kind of like supportive
or helpful swimwear at all, because.
That bathing suit does not fit her.
It is, is, you know, clear that she
has no, no kind of support in it.
It's, unfortunately what she would
be, what she'd have access to.
Cause
Ben: I mean, I don't know if there's
something, I don't know if exploitative is
the right word, but just something where
it's like, I feel like they intentionally,
like, dress her in the least flattering...
Like, outfits and looks, like, or just
like they intentionally, and I know part
of it's like the the cla like a class
element, but I don't know, like, you
just look at, like, Laura Galan and,
like, any of her, like, interview outfits
or anything like that that she wears,
like, outside this photo and, like,
Jeremy: you know, she's very cute.
Ben: Yeah, she looks amazing.
Yeah, she when she wears clothes
that like, actually fit, and like,
she looks absolutely, like, amazing.
Jeremy: Yeah.
I mean, I, I talked about this
a little bit and about this and
the evil dead remake, but like
horror movies for which like.
a huge part of the movie, especially
the horror element of the movie
is like constantly doing things
that humiliate a woman as horror.
They're not like, they're not my bag.
And I get like, that's a whole
point of what this movie is about,
but it's just like asking, asking
somebody to be the amount of.
upset and uncomfortable I was for
an hour and a half in this movie.
I was just like, I'm not,
this is not fun for me.
I'm not enjoying this.
And you know, she, she could
murder everybody with a machine
gun at the end and it still
wouldn't feel like enough payoff.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: it's a good movie, but it's damn, is
it definitely in those, in the, I never
want to see it again, though, category.
Michael: Yeah, that's fair.
Emily: Yeah.
No, I, I think it was well
done, and I think it was, I
think it, it was effective.
At its message, you know, like, I,
the, I think the message of this movie
was like, Bullying is fucked up and,
you know, will really damage a person.
And, you know, this is what
it's like to be trapped.
By that kind of abuse, and I
think that that's an important
message and I think that that's,
you know, you know, it's not like.
The same kind of wrote, like, moral
that you get in a lot of Western movies
where it's very clear and that, you
know, and a lot of, like, you were
saying, Jeremy in a very European
way, it was kind of open ended.
But you know, we're sort of, like,
judging these characters by the negative
space, because what is happening is
all just terrible, and it's more about
what they don't do, to be shitty.
And so, yeah, like, but it's not, it's
not a pleasant experience, and that's the
point, you know, it's not about, like,
redemption so much, it's just the pain
that is that is involved in the process.
Thanks for watching!
Jeremy: I could have used like maybe five
minutes of her having an okay time that
weren't uncomfortable masturbation scenes.
That's the only
Michael: when she's, when she's high
with, when she's high with Carlos,
like they seem to be like, although.
Jeremy: seconds there before
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: up and ruins everything.
Yeah, and I was gonna ask
about this other stuff.
I feel like we've talked
a lot about class.
I think class is very
much part of this film.
You know, and they don't, they
don't talk about it, but it's
there sort of the whole time.
I don't think, and again, not
being Spanish, I might not have
an ear for some of the things.
in this, but I don't think
there's much to say about race.
There's not really much of anybody
who's non white in this movie.
Emily: Shop owner, I believe, is
Asian and, you know, but her that
but we only see her as a shop owner.
So it's sort of a,
Jeremy: she's got one line.
Emily: Shaun of the Dead situation.
Jeremy: yeah, and then there's, there's
not, as far as I know, as far as I can
tell, anything in there that's at all
relates to LGBTQIA peoples or themes.
Ben: Nope.
Nope.
Jeremy: You want to, you don't
want to claim this one, huh?
I don't want
Ben: This one this dra The
straights can have this one.
Emily: We don't want to
talk about Pedro's shirt.
Ben: What shirt?
Emily: The what well,
Ben: Oh, yeah, yeah, the the one
tank top with like, what, the
holes that went like a foot down?
Emily: Yeah, yeah, his Pedro nip slip.
Jeremy: mean, Pedro does have a certain
Pansexual energy to him, but, you
know, it's not, not enough to really
Ben: Oh, that boy, that boy a twink.
Michael: Ha ha
Emily: I, yeah, like, but yeah,
Jeremy: he's running off to
Barthelona in a couple of years and,
you know, it's going to be a whole
different, whole different story.
Emily: bless him for that.
I hope he finds a really nice boyfriend.
Who's a bear.
Ben: But not the murdery
one who mauls people.
Emily: No, that guy's dead.
Jeremy: In Spain, are they
bulls instead of bears?
I feel like,
Emily: depends on where the market is.
Heyo!
Jeremy: yeah,
Michael: ha.
Emily: Hey!
Stockson.
Michael: Hey, economics!
Jeremy: I do appreciate the, the bull
in this movie that you get the circular.
thing where, you know, you know,
he's going to, you know, when they
start talking about the missing bull
that he's going to show up at some
point and he pops up in two different
instances, the worst possible times.
Emily: I mean, almost as as...
replaceable with nothing as the cops, but
I like the bull being there because it's
a bull and he's got cool horns and it's
got a bull bell around his and he doesn't
the bull doesn't do anything to anyone.
That bull is innocent.
The bull is innocent.
The only two people in this movie that are
that are not like fully traumatized I mean
the bull gets killed, so there's that.
And so does the waitress.
Both of them are cute,
they have good fashion.
They put up with a lot of
shit and they're innocent.
So
Jeremy: Yeah.
I kept the bull.
I kept being like, it's
a metaphor for something.
I know it's a metaphor for something.
I don't know what it's a metaphor for.
Cause they keep calling
him the young bull.
And I was like, it's
something, I don't know.
It's really, it's back to something.
And I don't know if
it's, if it's meant to.
Well, I guess, the only thing to
ask then is guys, do we feel like
we would recommend this to somebody?
Michael, would you
recommend it to somebody?
Michael: Yeah, I, I feel like if they
asked me, I mean, I feel like I'd
recommend it if they asked me for a
recommendation that was fairly specific.
Like, if they're like, oh, I want to watch
a movie tonight, I'd be like, watch Piggy!
I would
Jeremy: be depressed for an hour and a
Michael: But if they're like, oh,
yeah, I'm looking, I'm looking to try,
like, some, you know, European horror,
like, modern European horror, I'd be
like, oh yeah, like, check this out.
It's, it's pretty good.
Jeremy: Oh boy, do we have a list.
Ben: Yeah,
Emily: Yes.
Ben: Long exhale is my answer.
Emily: Yeah.
It's definitely not one.
I would,
Ben: No, I,
Emily: one of those where I'm
like, if you would like to write an
essay about a movie, or if you're
like, I don't see people in movies
that are like protagonists that
are not like Hollywood plus size.
Right.
You know, I, I, because that's another
thing about the, the exploitative
quality of this movie is that like,
there's another, there's an element of
it that is like, it's about honesty,
but that really does write a line.
Ben: Michael, I think you nailed it.
I, I agree with you in
that recommendation.
Emily: I, I second, I third even.
Jeremy: Yeah, I, I cannot imagine
a scenario in which I would
recommend this movie to somebody.
Like, you know, it's
not like a thing that...
It's not a thing that I would say,
like some of the movies we talked about
in here, it's not one that I come out
feeling like this movie is morally
reprehensible and nobody should watch
it, but it is a movie that I was like,
I'm never gonna watch again, I don't
know who I would recommend it to, unless
somebody was like, what's, you know,
what's a Spanish horror movie that people
seem to like, and you don't, you know,
yeah, it's like, it's not, it's well
made, and it's well acted but honestly,
I, I was like, I just can't imagine
ever wanting to watch this movie again.
Emily: Yeah, it's definitely worth
the one, you know, the one watch.
If you watch it multiple times,
I hope you're writing an essay.
Michael: Yeah.
Emily: Because I think, you know,
it's, it certainly, would be an
interesting subject for further analysis.
But
Jeremy: my favorite thing about
it is that it's 90 minutes long.
Michael: Oh, I love a cool 90.
Yeah.
Jeremy: movie was any longer, it would
be I would not be able to take it.
Yeah, we talked about, we talked
about Wreck on the last episode, R.
E.
C.
And that one is a cool 78 minutes.
It
Ben: Oh, I love that 78
minute run time on REC.
Emily: Yeah, so that
Jeremy: in, it bites you, and it gets out.
On that note, do we have any
other recommendations for people?
I mean, people should check out if
they liked this or if they didn't
like this and they're looking
for something else to watch.
Ben: I'm gonna say if you watch this
movie expecting protagonist kills
people and, like, you follow the
killer I'm gonna say go watch Sissy.
It might be more what you're looking for.
Emily: yeah, I don't really
Jeremy: this was going to turn
that sissy corner at some point.
That's a movie I love.
Emily: yeah, Sissy is a fun movie.
I don't really have a movie, like, I
was thinking about it because, like,
a lot of the movies that compare
with this movie are really, like,
single watch and we've watched them,
Jeremy: Yeah
Emily: unless you want to watch
something like Sissy or Ready or
Not, and really see, like, a final
girl situation that feels satisfying.
But,
Michael: you know what I'd recommend?
Emily: What?
Michael: Heathers.
Ben: Oh.
Michael: Yeah.
Emily: a good one.
Yeah, that is.
Ben: Mm hmm.
Emily: Yes, so that's, I, my
recommendation is that if you have a
scale at home, unless you're trying
to build muscle, throw that shit away.
Jeremy: I always use mine to weigh my
suitcases before I go on the plane.
That's
Emily: Oh yeah.
Jeremy: the main workout my scale gets.
Emily: don't, don't use a scale.
You're fine.
Eat what you want unless
you're allergic to it.
And if, if people bully you, you know,
cops are kind of a rough one, but don't
Jeremy: Pretty, pretty, pretty, don't
you ever feel like you're less than...
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: We already
talked about that movie.
Emily: yeah
Throw away your scale, enjoy your food.
Jeremy: I think the movie I wanted to
recommend uh, it's one I saw last year.
It is less the same kind of
thing and more of like a, a, a
thriller with, you know, a...
Tormented protagonist who isn't maybe
then constantly constantly humiliated.
I really enjoyed Watcher, which
stars Maika Munro, who, you
know, we saw in It Follows.
And it's about a woman who gets
married and moves to Hungary with
her husband who is Hungarian, and
he knows the country, knows the
language, everything she doesn't.
She's American.
And she is in, they move into this nice
flat in this giant building where they
have just these floor to ceiling windows
looking across the street at another
building full of floor to ceiling windows.
And it very quickly turns into a
situation where she, she thinks
somebody is following her.
She thinks somebody in the apartment
one of the apartments across
the street is stalking her and
watching her and doing things.
And she can't prove it, so
it's, there's a lot of paranoia.
It's really it's a really taut thriller
throughout, and I think really well made,
and of course, Maika Munro is amazing.
That's definitely one worth checking out.
Emily: Is everyone hungry in that movie?
Or just the Hungarians?
Jeremy: They're just hungry.
Emily: I'm so
Jeremy: They're not hungry.
I did, that is how I learned that Food
Lion, which is our regional grocery
store here is owned by the same company
that owns a whole bunch of other chains
of grocery stores, including one in
Hungary, and they all use the same symbol.
She went in a Hungarian grocery
store, and I was like, she
had a food line in Hungary?
That's just, it's just the same company.
Because I was, yeah, watching
it, I was like, what the fuck?
All right, well that that
wraps it up for this one.
There's plenty of stuff
for you to go watch.
Michael, can you let people know
where they can find out more about
what you're up to or find you online?
Michael: You know, just Google me
cause I'm shutting down my Twitter
and you can find me on Blue Sky.
I forget what my Blue Sky name
is, just by like Michael Tanner.
You'll find me.
There's not that many people on Blue Sky.
You'll find me.
Let's see.
I shut down my Twitter.
I shut down my website.
Well, those website fees went up a lot.
And so I'm waiting to find it.
This is a bad, weird time for me, guys.
I'm just saying just Google me, just
Google, but not the guy who writes
all the books about Nietzsche.
And don't look at me.
Yeah, it's, it's, we, we get
confused for each other a lot.
I almost got some work because of
that, but it didn't, didn't pan out.
But yeah, just like, buy some
Orcs in Space, buy some Junior
Braves of the Apocalypse.
Yeah.
Yeah, just, you know,
Emily: you still have those?
Do you have those at shows?
The the Junior Braves, like merchandise,
like the coasters and stuff?
Michael: Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
With the water bottles and the
like the, the zombie bike kits,
which are like band aids and like
fun zombie stickers and stuff.
Yeah.
We got like, we're pretty
good on our swag or swag game.
Emily: I highly recommend I mean Junior
Braves is great, but also, if you find
Mike at a at a convention, they've
got really, really awesome merch, too.
Like, I still have my, it's,
it's well loved, but it's Be
Michael: Oh yeah.
Emily: a real woodcutter.
Michael: little wooden coaster.
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: Thanks.
Emily: so.
Be ready.
Jeremy: Well, what about you, Emily?
Where can people find you online?
Emily: Well, I'm Mega Moth
on Twitter and Blue Sky.
I'm, I'll be on, I'll probably
be on Twitter until it, flutters
its final attempt at flight.
But I'm also on Blue Sky.
Come find me.
Eventually they'll have
hashtags or something.
I'm on Tumblr mega Mo on Tumblr and
Mega underscore Moth on Instagram
and, you know, mega moth.net,
mega Moth, Patreon, et cetera.
Jeremy: And Ben?
Ben: Yeah find me at BenKahnComics on
Instagram BenKahnWrites on BlueSky.
Ben the Kahn, if you're still
circling the Twitter drain
but definitely BenKahnComics.
com where you can sign up
for my upcoming newsletter.
And please, please, please pre
order El Campbell wins their
weekend out October 17th.
Jeremy: Awesome.
Emily: a good book.
Ben: Thank you.
Emily: Welcome.
Jeremy: As for me, you can find me on
Twitter and Instagram, still at JRome58.
And on my website at JeremyWhitley.
com and BlueSky and...
Tumblr, I'm just Jeremy Whitley.
I've been told it's heresy
to go by my actual given name
on Tumblr, but there it is.
Yeah, you can check out,
Emily: does it, so there.
Jeremy: I mean, he's Neil Gaiman, right?
Do whatever he wants.
So you can check out the podcast on
Patreon at Progressively horrified
on our website at progressively
horrified transistor fm and
on Twitter at prog horror Pod.
Well, we would love to hear from
you, and speaking of loving to hear
from you, we would love it if you
would rate and review this podcast
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You giving us five stars helps the
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That helps us get new listeners and we
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So.
You're helping yourself
out, really, honestly.
And thanks again to
Michael for joining us.
This was a ball.
Michael: This was a pleasure.
Thank you guys.
Emily: Thank you as always.
Ben: for coming.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: And uh, thanks again
to all of you for listening.
And until next time, stay horrified.