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ClickUp 3.0 - a platform that's promised to revolutionize productivity and redefine the way teams work forever - is set to release in just a few months.
How do world-class agencies continue to grow profitably and hit their goals, even through the choppy waters and challenges of agency life?
How do leaders like Tiffany Sauder, Marcus Sheridan, Jay Acunzo, Shama Hyder, David C. Baker, Nikole Rose, and Zeb Evans think?
Join Agency Journey host Jakub Grajcar as he interviews agency operators and leaders to share insights, actionable tips, and hilarious stories from the builders who live in the agency trenches.
Each episode focuses on crucial aspects of growing an agency like building the right team, delegation, project management, client success and retention, and operating frameworks like EOS.
Brought to you by ZenPilot: we help lead your agency through the final project management implementation you’ll ever need. Book a call to learn more at ZenPilot.com/Call.
Don’t forget to rate + follow the podcast if you enjoyed it!
All right.
Welcome, everybody,
to Agency Journey
Your host, Gray
MacKenzie from ZenPilot.
This week
I have the awesome privilege
of having
a repeat guest on podcast,
but also someone who's had a
really meaningful impact on my life
over the last five years
through his work.
And that is Zeb
Evans, founder and CEO of Click Up.
Zeb, congrats on five
plus years now.
Welcome back to Agency Journey.
Thanks for having me back. Great.
Super excited to be here again.
I'm excited you're apparel
choices have not disappointed
everyone's
not watching this on YouTube.
Go check it out there.
But I've got a handful
of different places
I want to take our conversation
today, but just wanted to start
a little bit
with on the journey side of things,
we're talking about
the most fun part of the journey.
But if you look back
at the last five years
and had to break it
into specific phases
and maybe not think about it
this way, but be curious if you do,
do you think about the journey
in terms of here's phases,
obviously to get the click
of evolution, hey, we had 1.0
and then the big move to 2.0
and now 3.0 is in the works.
But are there specific phases
you look back on?
Yeah, it's a great question
and there certainly
is the first phase of any startup
that is building something
that is really for a product like.
So it doesn't have to
just be software
but can be hardware
also is it's all about product.
And this can be
I've seen this last ten years
in some companies,
so there really isn't
a timeline on these days.
But the first one
certainly is it's 100% about
are you creating a great product
and is there some type
of competitive differentiation
between your product
and what exists out there?
So that's that very first
phase is before product market fit.
Everybody talks a lot about product
market fit.
I think product market fit
is that second stage,
which is really just better set
as can you create a business
out of the product that you built.
And there are many great products
that have competitive
differentiation
that have been unable to figure out
the business side of things.
Great examples of these are now too
obvious in hindsight
social media advertising.
But at one time that was not ad
that was not obvious, that
that's how you can figure out
how to create a business
out of that product.
So after you're able to figure
if you're able to figure out
the business side of things, then
it becomes a scaling challenge.
It becomes,
are you hiring the right people?
And so I break I break
scaling down into two pieces.
So it's like scaling a would be
hiring the right leadership,
the people that can be built
and the people that can hire
the people that can scale yourself.
Because especially as a founder, it
really is about scaling yourself.
At the end of the day,
especially as you know,
you're growing to a larger company.
So generally speaking,
you'll be around,
I would say, 50 employees
at that time, 50 to 100, maybe
more, maybe less, depending on
if you've raised a significant
amount of funds before that.
I think raising funds plays into
how these stages are amplified
very much,
but I am always a huge proponent
of raising
as little money as possible until
after you get to the scaling phase,
because I think you make
better decisions on product
and I think you make way better
decisions on go to market,
how to sell the product.
If you have a bunch of money
in the bank,
in some ways you kind of skip to
step two because you don't need to.
You don't need the money.
So you fail
to figure out the business
and in some ways
you may not figure out the product
and that the best way
that you could.
So again, really just recapping
said phase one, product, phase two,
how do you make a business
out of the product part?
The phase three is broken into.
Two or three is is leadership.
The leadership to build
and hire the team
and then be a part of of phase
three is individual contributors
the middle management layer
really scaling out the headcount
of the company?
And those three phases are really
the journey that we've been on
until today.
Always though, and ongoing
during these these three phases.
There's this operational excellence
that you have to have a focus on.
It matters just as much as
is beginning as it does at scale.
The difference is
that it's very different
operational excellence
at the beginning versus scale.
And so that's something
that I'm still focused on
today, is
how do we make an excellent
operational business
out of what we have?
Yeah, you kind of answered this
just as we were chatting before
recording.
I was going to ask you
if you had a favorite one of those.
Like what phase do you feel like
you're like the most
you can mention,
like a lot of the joy
or a lot of the fun
is actually at the beginning.
But you're going to focus on
surviving that,
that it's hard to enjoy that.
Something
that I've really learned in life
is it's important to enjoy the
journey as you're experiencing it,
because always, always 100%
of the time
you're going
to get on the other side,
whether that be on
like a good side or a bad side,
failure versus success.
And you're going to regret
not enjoying
that part of the journey,
the journey more.
And so it's it's, you know,
it's like that grass is greener
an analogy where you're on like,
let's say the third phase
and you look back to him.
That first phase of building
the product was so much fun.
It was a really small team that was
the best part of the journey.
But if you flip positions again
and that first position,
your mind is, Hey,
are we going to survive?
I don't know if we're going
to be able to eat next next week.
We don't have enough money
to pay ours ourselves.
Is this a product
anybody will actually pay for?
So there's always going to be that
no matter
what part of the journey you're on,
and this is true for all of life,
this is true for family, it's true
for relationship,
that's true for health, fitness,
whatever you want to put it at,
there's always going to be
a different place that your brain,
that voice in your head
wants to be at.
I think it's really important
to control that voice in your head
and just enjoy
experiencing everything
as you experience it.
There's a lot of really,
really stressful
things
and things that cause anxiety,
especially on the third
level of scale.
When you have a lot of employees
as those employees
and their families
go into your thinking as well.
And those customers,
we have hundreds of thousands
of paying customers today.
And and so we really want
to fulfill our promise
and make all of us
those customers happy.
So there's a lot of weight
carried with that.
But again,
there's still a way to enjoy
the journey while we're doing that.
And I like to think that I've kind
of mastered that at this point.
Yeah, that's a great point.
Every time we go on a road trip,
I tell the kids,
What's the one thing
we know for sure?
Something will go wrong,
like there will always be problems.
Let's enjoy the good parts of this.
You're kind of hitting on like
the professional level of stress
you've gone from for scrappy guys,
building out a product early on
and pivoting to,
Hey, you're the CEO of a startup
that is valued at $4 billion
and is growing incredibly rapidly.
Like this journey over
like from the outside
the world looks at the person
who I talked to like four years ago
and you guys are super early on
and the person
today is like
two totally different people.
How has that changed?
Just kind of those relationships
around you, friends, family,
that level of engagement?
You know, it's a good question.
Somebody told me early on, always
don't keep your circle too big.
It doesn't mean like keep it
so small, but don't keep it so big.
And I think that's important
for no matter
where you're at in life,
you think you can only have
so many really close
friends and relationships
that really, really matter
and that those people that are
there for you, no matter what
you see this and people
that win the lottery,
you see this
and a famous music artist
that everybody comes out
from the woodwork
that wasn't there for you
when you know
you're going
through those hard times.
And so it's important
to remember that.
And it's also important
to appreciate
the people that were there for
you during the hard times.
At the same time,
you know,
as you grow as an individual
and as I've grown
as as an individual,
it opens up more doors
to different relationships,
different levels of relationships
that you may not have had access
to before.
And so it's important
to be appreciative
of being able to do that
and somewhat
take advantage of having access
to those relationships
and learning from those people
that have done things
much better than I have
or much better
than our company has before.
So I think there's kind of two ways
of looking at it.
There's like
that really personal side of
relationships, and then there's
that professional side of relations
that also is personal,
but allows you to grow much more
in that professional mindset.
Yeah, it makes sense.
I want to spend some time
on the click of 3.0
and kind of direction
of the company,
but a couple of questions
before we get there.
The first one be,
if you look back
on the contribution of clean
up to the overall project
management space
and you may buck
the project management label, look,
maybe we want to go to work
solution work management,
you know, some the other expand
beyond the category.
But when I look at like click ups
overall contribution
to the larger space projects,
every tool now offers you
a lot of flexibility
in how you view
your underlying data
or your tasks or whatever.
And a lot of that
I think stems from your early work.
Is there anything that sticks out
to you as like, Hey,
this is the contribution
to the larger ecosystem?
Like what's the main thing
that Cook App has done
to change the way PM operates in a.
There's a couple of things.
One of them you touched on
is customization, flexibility.
When we started,
that was one of the primary reasons
I go took up as an internal tool.
At first
it was literally just to be able
to switch between lists and board,
and that was the primary function.
That was a differentiator
that we were using ourselves.
Then it evolved to total
customization, flexibility.
Another example
early on was multiple signees.
I don't know why people platforms
were so opinionated
about being able
to use these or not,
but you needed
why can't a user choose?
So I took that principle
and we applied that to everything
inside
of Cook up to enable flexibility,
to enable customization.
We always thought of a
two person team
and we thought of a 2000 person
team and resolve for those.
It did naturally solve
everything in between.
Now we think about a little bit
even larger.
So I think that was one
contribution.
That limit for sure is that
flexibility and that customization.
I think the other thing is viewing
your work,
which to some extent ties
to flexibility and customization.
But again,
that was the thing that we invented
was being able
to switch between views
and it sounds like
table stakes today because now
everybody does have this.
But at the time
you weren't able to switch
between a list view and a board
view and a calendar view
and a timeline view.
And that was
what made us really special
with that
pick up V1 and then going into V2
where it wasn't
just switching explicitly,
it was also creating
additional views on top of that
singular view of work.
I think the third thing though
is when we started,
I can't tell you how many times
people told us
that this was stupid.
This philosophy around
product isn't going to work.
You can't do more than one thing
well.
And then that has been proven
over and over and over again.
And we always just stuck
with that vision of being able
to do multiple things
well over time.
We weren't naive enough
to think that immediately
we could just do everything well,
and we still don't today.
But over time
you can do more than one thing.
Well. And that's where
this category actually had it.
And it took a few years.
It was probably three
and a half years into the journey
when that started really shifting,
but it certainly shifted
and I think it's very obvious
now that the other players
in this category
are trying to do
more than one thing.
Well, also,
we do have still a head
start on them,
but it's becoming competitive
in that doing multiple things
while putting all of your work
in one place
and just touching on three point.
I think it gives us
that extra couple of years
of differentiation
where it will
change the category again.
Yeah, let's talk about that.
How do you sum up Cook up 3.0?
Yeah.
The first thing is quality
and quality early on.
And for people
that use early versions of Cook Up,
it's changed a lot.
And over time we've learned
a lot of new principles.
We've got to learn
new methodologies, new ways
of hiring, new ways
of scaling engineering.
And I think the way to look at it
is that we're taking all of the
best principles and lessons
that we've learned from the past
five years.
And we're rewriting
a lot of our product
in order to have that best in class
principles of product quality.
Product quality is broken down
for us into reliability,
and it doesn't work when you
want it to work, it's performance.
Is it fast? And it's product
quality.
It's user experience quality.
Is it easy to use?
Does it make sense?
Is it consistent?
Is it beautiful
or do are the little details?
And that's really first
and foremost.
And most important thing about 3.0
is that quality
of product experience.
And as we've done
so many different things,
we have basically 15 products
inside of a product.
It's important
for us to take that breather
and really get the house in order
and make sure that the foundation
is there for the future.
So once we do this, once
we don't have to do it again
and we can continue building floors
on top of this foundation.
But it was important to some extent
for us
to rewrite
the foundation of the platform,
and that's
what's taken the most time.
I mean, we've been working on this
for almost a year
now and a lot of it is done
and are close to being complete.
And many of these things
we're going to release
just rolling releases.
It's not going to be,
Hey, I need to switch to 3.0
because so many of these things
are really crucial in people's
workflows for performance
and reliability
that will just release them
immediately
over the next few months.
The product behind the 3.0
is outside of the major design
overhaul, which
will not feel unfamiliar to people.
If people went from 1.8
to point of click up,
there was a very different
experience.
It was a totally different product
to some extent, different user
experience, different everything.
It's not going to feel familiar
and it's just going to feel much
more clean, much more consistent,
much more connected.
I think a lot of the dots
and cook up don't connect today.
We built a lot,
but maybe we built the MVP
or we built the V1
and we did connect it
to the rest of the platform,
to every feature,
every product
will feel much more connected.
But the third thing,
and this is the thing
that will be in the 3.0 release,
the 3.0 journey is communication.
And to some extent collaboration.
Also, I think that we know
based on data that the most
commonly used page and click out,
believe it or not,
is the notifications page.
That's where a lot of people live
out of is answering notifications.
Also combined with
the most inefficient way of using
click up is email notifications.
It's so inefficient
in the way that people use
email notifications, not
just to click with every product.
So what we're trying to do
is really rethink
how communication works
inside of software products.
I think the other problem
I really want to
solve is Slack
is the most distracting thing
in the world for me
and I literally have to turn
all slack notifications off
and still I'm so OCD
where I go in there
and every 5 minutes
I'm checking my notifications
and then marking them unread
and then setting reminders.
And I think asynchronous
communication needs to change,
especially for the future of work
and the way that we are working
now today with largely remote
and largely hybrid work.
And this is an evolution
towards that.
And so that's the piece
that I'm most excited about.
The third version of the platform,
along with people management.
I think that it's really hard
to know
what people are working on today
and to make sure that people
are working on the right thing
and to enable the individual
to know
what is most important individuals,
they have to ask,
what is the most important?
What should I work on next?
And managers at the manager level,
it's a manual process
to figure that out,
and I think there's
a lot of opportunity there
to attach these things
to initiatives and goals
and to be able to measure
productivity inside of company.
So that part is really important
to us.
3.0 Also.
Yeah, I sense internally,
is there a standard framework
for kind of managing
the okay our framework
or has something custom around
click of goals feature do
is have a standard
across the team methodology.
We actually use
a list inside of Click
that has our actual goal.
OKRs there our goals
product is we'll get a total revamp
along with 3.0.
It'll probably be like 3.1, 3.2
a few months
after we released this,
but we are working on that now.
If people have feedback for that,
send it to me back click icon.
I don't think goals are something
that any product has solved
really well to make it fun
and not to key result focused
where it's just all about updating
a metric and it's all about
figuring out some arbitrary metric.
I think that's where you get into
trouble with goals is really strict
key result methodology
where every single thing
has to have a number.
The end of the day,
it's really hard
to put a number on things
and most of the time
teams are just making it up
and I think that can hinder growth
and it can hinder productivity
because you may
set your bar too low,
but you also may set it
way too high
and you overfocus on that metric
rather
than focusing on building
the best thing possible.
Yeah,
it makes sense. Tied into 3.0.
I mentioned this kind of in
categories right now.
The easy answer is probably
like I don't want
to put cooking in a bucket,
but if you had to describe the
bucket to click ups in right now,
do you call it work management?
Do you call it like how do you
think about that? Internally.
We see three point
I was more of a hub,
a platform, you know,
a lot
has been going on in the background
this past year
and also we've always had one out
to replace them
all. And it's great marketing.
It attacks every single person
that you could think of.
I mean, teenagers are like,
what the hell do they mean?
Are they replacing my Instagram
and my message?
What could that possibly mean?
And that's what it's meant to do.
It's meant to strike curiosity
at people,
to talk about it, to Google at it's
brand marketing.
What we really always thought,
though, was really one out
to replace all of your productivity
software at work,
which usually was broken down
into several different pieces.
But at the end of the day,
you know,
we know
we've never been naive enough
to think that we can replace
all of your software
or even all of every company's work
productivity software.
It is about connecting.
At the end of the day, I think
there's a lot of sources of record.
What we're trying to build
is a source of truth,
like the source of command center,
where you go and all of your work
and all of your connected products,
your connected applications
are there and presented to you
in a way
that you know
what you need to do for that day.
So whether it's the Figma via
Google Drive or Salesforce
or whatever
other product that you use
for your particular role
that must live
and breathe inside of clicker,
and you should be able
to update those things
and work on them and organize them
and plan your day.
And you should be able to search
all those product from one place.
The really cool thing that we've
been working on is relationship,
meaning you can draw a relationship
between a cook up task
and a Salesforce deal or a clear
cut task and a Google Drive file.
So you don't to ask people anymore,
Hey, where is that ticket?
Where is that file?
Where is that customer?
It all lives in one place,
and I think that's a huge advantage
to saving people.
TIME Yeah,
seeing that even like the Amazon
where the HubSpot partnership
is being announced right now,
that's a huge step forward for us
in terms of a ton of automations
that we're currently
setting up for.
Dozens of agencies
using third party tooling
is now becoming a lot easier
just to do natively.
So I'm excited to see that continue
to happen to as yet
have grown the ecosystem around
Cook Up has also grown a lot.
You've got obviously firms
like what we're doing,
you know how
we built an entire business around,
hey, we're just going to
standardize
in a vertical that we know well,
but we're going to build on
top of click
because we think that's
the best product
management tool for most agencies.
Most of the time
we want to maximize
our market share,
but we also want to be experts
in one tool.
So to get service providers
on top of it,
you've got consultants,
you've got content
creators, you've got people
now who are building some cool
kind of tech on top of click.
We've got this utilization
and profitability
plug in that we put in
that's only client facing.
But you get other folks
who've built little bits of tooling
that sit on top of click up
and can be, you know,
whether it's an extension
or something else that's out there.
Is there anything that you've seen
or on the flip side,
anything that is like,
hey, somebody should build this.
We don't want to tackle this right
now, but
somebody should build this tooling.
Anything that you've seen
that's like the most exciting
click up ecosystem
development team.
I started the journey
of really looking deeply into
how can we create the best app
developer platform on top of click?
And there's examples of companies
that have done this well.
And what we're trying to do
right now actually is emulate
how other apps
have been created in other app
developer platforms like let's call
it around Slack or Microsoft teams,
if we didn't do this right,
then it means people can copy
and paste their applications
that they've already built for
another platform inside of pick up.
And then it works immediately
because the biggest hurdle
to developer platforms
is developing the products,
developing the applications
on that.
It can take a really, really,
really long time to do that.
And customers don't see value out
it immediately.
But if we can make them work
as if they were working,
if they already worked
inside of another product,
then it gives us
a couple of years of leapfrogging.
And that's what I have been focused
on, is how do we do that
and how do we also open up
the front end of our product
so that people can build really
cool applications on top of them?
There's a variety of examples
there, but I think our one thing
that I've really index
heavily on is widgets.
Things that can go inside of tasks
and go inside of docs
and go inside of anywhere
inside of the product.
And so what we've been working on
recently
is putting widgets
inside of docs and flash commands
so you can create a bar chart,
you can create a graph real easily
no matter where you're
at inside of the product way
that opens up the doors.
You as people could put
any types of widgets in there.
It doesn't have to just be a graph.
It could be a list of something
from outside of Cook.
It could be a graph from data
using outside of click
data use from Salesforce,
for example, or from HubSpot.
It could be buttons.
I think buttons are really cool
opportunity for us
where you can click a button
and it performs that action
or performs a workflow inside
or outside of click app.
And then of course, there's
a variety of just features
that people have requested
that we'll never be able to build
that I think
having a developer platform
allows customers
to build those either themselves
or along with the community
or partners like yourself.
Yeah, that makes sense.
I want to ask one more question
and then I've got some random,
some audience sourced
goofy questions here that I wrote.
But this is around the growth side.
And last time that you were
on, we talked a little bit
about what's working
and what's worked
for Click Up to grow so rapidly.
And Melissa Rosenthal
on the podcast to talk about
what are you guys doing
with Out of Home
and some of the rest
of the creative
that's working
really well for Cook Up.
But is there in terms of like
untapped or not yet
optimized growth channels,
is there a channel that you're
looking at expanding,
you know,
like partners
could be a larger channel
that obviously
consultants network right now
and there's partner work,
but there's a million different
channels out there.
Is there one to you
that's like, Oh,
man, I'd love to build on this
or get into this channel?
I think community in general
is the one that we pioneered early
on and community is definitely
it's the user side of community,
but it's all in the evangelists,
advocate, ambassadors,
whatever
you want to call it, that side.
And it's also the partnership side,
that ecosystem community side,
which is something that
we're really great at early on.
And to be honest,
I think we kind of dropped the ball
this past year or so,
and that's what I've been working
on picking up the past
couple of months,
putting the right people
in the right places
and giving freedom
and giving more autonomy
to those communities
to build on their own
and to grow on their own.
We ourselves,
we're not going to be able
to scale our internal services
department as fast as we need to,
and we knew
that was going to happen.
So we've got to lean
on the community and partners.
I think that there's a lot more
that we can do there
to help our community, help
the ecosystem, help businesses
like yours really grow and benefit
from the growth of click up for now
and for the future also.
So I think that's really important
and top of mind for me right now.
As far as marketing channels
go, we talk about paid marketing.
Paid marketing is very obvious
around the channels you can do.
What's not obvious
is the efficiency
that can be gained
from those channels.
And just to give you
an idea is we're 70% more efficient
than we were just six months ago
on overall paid acquisition.
Usually at scale efficiency
goes down,
but we've really been able
to dig into the data and figure out
how can we drive more efficiency
through paid marketing.
And it's simple things
as getting better ads,
getting better content,
and it's more complex
on the complex side of data science
as to where we actually targeting
and why and what are they doing?
Is it and what type of conversions
are we having?
How many people
are they inviting to the platform
after this and really zoning in
on those kind of end plus one users
where you can acquire a customer
and they'll invite other customers
and they'll tell other people
about us.
And then finally,
a lot of influencers are really,
really important for us also.
And so that goes
to the small level,
the ambassadors side,
but also to a large side,
these business influencers
or productivity influencers
or even even people
that are kind of
motivational speakers
for businesses
that can really engage
their community.
And there's still a lot
of greenfield opportunity
and productivity as a whole,
productive customers
that are using spreadsheets
still to get work done.
They're using just notes,
they're using just Google Docs.
And there's so much opportunity
there to help them
save time,
help them become more efficient.
So those three things are really
our opportunity for this next year.
Yeah, it makes our sense.
We got bonuses here.
I asked for one. We got three.
That's awesome.
I've got a couple phones here.
Do you have a favorite nickname?
I used to be a deejay.
My debating was DJ Curfew
because I was deejaying
and I had a small
I mean, it was just myself,
a DJ company in North Carolina
during high school where I would do
316 ends and actually deejay
at a local radio station.
Also, I got the name DJ Curfew
because I had to be home
by midnight.
I would have to pack up,
you know, a
sweet 16 or a birthday party
or whatever
it may be at like 11:00
in order to get home.
The male
friends don't call me curfew
and I'll always appreciate that.
That's awesome.
Which is also ironic
given your sleeping habits.
Give me favorite slash
guilty pleasure snack.
Oh, McDonald's French fries.
Wow. Okay.
McDonald's French fries.
Yeah, that's the probably do it
like once a month, actually stopped
and had them yesterday
and that's the thing that I just
the McDonald's has the best French
fries in the world.
That's awesome.
Where do you buy your clothes?
At a variety of places.
The issue that I've gotten into
now is it's like it's
a self-fulfilling
prophecy, is I have to wear crazier
and crazier shirts
and colors because when I don't,
then people give me shit for it.
And like, you're not wearing that.
I'm sure it is about that.
So a lot of online places
I actually
Google shopping is really helpful
and image search
you can look for what
similar to another shirt
and then you just get a ton of hits
on that stuff.
Even just search colorful shirts
or colorful button down or colorful
attire and Amazon,
like lots of things come up
and that's kind of what I look for.
Have you had anyone
come to a meeting yet
trying to wear a Zeb shirt?
But they clearly
don't normally wear Zeb shirt
for sure.
That happens a
lot internally and externally,
but I really appreciate it.
What happens? That's awesome.
What makes someone
a great office guest in.
The sense of like employees
or people that are.
An external guest
coming to look up HQ?
Honestly, I think
when people come to the office
and they actually just walk around
the office, that's a great guest.
We have a lot of guests that just
come just for one particular thing.
But if you go around and talk
to people, actually,
like I was very friendly
and very open
and excited to talk to people.
We really want to hear
what people are feeling.
We want to feel that empathy
for customers and for prospective
employees, business partners,
whatever that may be.
I think that's this is also person
somebody that comes and hangs out
rather than just come for,
you know, their 30 minute meeting
makes sense.
Last question is one
that's related back to 3.0,
which is will
this piece come
from a couple different
people ask me versions of this,
but all of them were old time,
long term pickup users.
Will there be an upgrade?
Like I actually have to opt in?
You mentioned parts of three point
hours can be rolled out.
Will there be like an opt
into a 3.0 platform
or is it just a seamless upgrade
in the current app? Great question.
The majority of quality
improvements will be just
automatically happen for everybody.
So what that means is performance
and reliability.
Those two things
are just going to happen
automatically
when we have a big user experience
change along with some new features
like I'm talking about
on the communication side,
that will happen
as a manual change.
And so for people that weren't here
for one point or a 2.0,
you opted in.
You could say, Hey,
I want to switch my workspace.
It was bi workspace,
switch it to 2.0.
You could switch back to 1.2.
All things I want to preserve that.
I think that worked out
really well for us.
It's not the end of the day.
There's a lot of change management
involved
with changing user experience
and again, we're not going to run
doing the same thing from 1 to 2
where
it feels like
an entirely different product.
It will still be three,
but it will be very,
very familiar to everybody.
You'll know how to use it,
I think in many ways on
how to use it better and easier.
It will feel cleaner,
it will feel more consistent,
feel more connected.
And so I think that those things
will really benefit a lot of users
immediately.
And I think most people
will enjoy switching
and really see that benefit.
But at the same time, we want to
allow people to switch that.
So the first phase of 3.0,
which is this year,
which is primarily around quality
and some other things
like universal search
and making our search
just incredible,
that stuff will happen
for everybody as it's ready.
And then early next year,
when we have more of that second
phase and third phase of 3.0,
those things will be often.
Yeah, that's awesome
that it's been really fun
giving generous their time.
I know we're tight on time here,
but I appreciate you coming on
and being willing
to share here today.
So thanks for making another stop
on the Agency Journey podcast.
Of course.
Thanks so much for having me.