Chapter 4: Dutch Bike Culture and Breakfast Sprinkles - A Third Culture Perspective with Lucas Ciscato

Before we dive into today's episode, I want to remind everyone in North Carolina to stay safe and prepared for the upcoming hurricane—take care of yourselves and your loved ones! Now, grab your helmets and your Dutch breakfast sprinkles as Lucas Ciscato takes us on a wild ride through his multicultural life. Born in Mexico to a Dutch mom and Italian dad, Lucas shares the ups and downs of being a 'third culture kid'—from cruising around on Dutch bikes to navigating lupus at 18. You'll laugh, you'll learn, and you might just crave some Dutch chocolate milk as Lucas breaks down the quirks of global living and why European efficiency doesn’t always fit with American politeness. Get ready for stories that span continents, cultures, and…yes, breakfast toppings!

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Creators & Guests

Host

Veronika Becher

What is Identity Library?

Welcome to the Identity Library, a captivating podcast hosted by Veronika Becher, a German student exploring life in the United States. Join me as we unravel the different layers of identity and embark on a quest for authenticity. Each episode delves into how our backgrounds, cultures, and personal journeys sculpt our sense of self.

Every month, we journey into a new cultural landscape with our guests, sharing stories and experiences from the tapestry of life. Whether you're forging a path in a foreign land or simply curious about the forces that define us, The Identity Library invites you to write your own narrative or uncover fresh perspectives.

So, settle in with a cup of tea and immerse yourself in tales from around the globe with some sense of humor. If you don't find your story here, keep exploring—there are countless books with chapters waiting to be discovered. Identity Library is a podcast by WKNC 88.1 FM HD-1/HD-2.

Veronika Becher 0:00
Hey everyone, and welcome to a new episode of Identity Library. My name is Veronika Becher, and today I'm sitting with Lucas Ciscato. Oh my gosh, I'm already failing. And

thank you so much for being here. And you know, I feel like this is the most stressful episode I've recorded so far, without even joking, we just got a flash forwarding and I don't have an umbrella, so good luck. If you see a really wet person running across campus, that's me, I swear. And my T shirt is also white, so congratulations, Veronika of thinking ahead of time, but yes, I just hope that no one is,

you know, go through the same issue. Aside him, do you want to introduce yourself? Maybe Lucas, sorry for pronouncing your last name wrong.

Lucas Ciscato 0:49
Totally fine. I've gotten my name pronounced wrong so many different ways. In high school, I did speech in debate also. I'm Lucas the introduction part. But for

I had my my principal, she would say Lucas kiskato, Lucas Cisco, Lucas kiskado. Like all the different pronunciations you could ever think of and never correctly. This is the same of my last name, because it's a CH sound. It's a here sound. And I always teach people, I think,

Veronika Becher 1:30
my friend, I don't know if it was Varun, you know, Varun, actually, he taught me this whole trick. So you always imagine you're like a little kitten, the super mad at you, and then you need to do this like sound, like sound, and then that's how you get the CH sound in German. So be here, not not Becca. Not Becca is a different word, so please don't use it.

But yeah,

thank you. So this is the, this is a crazy introduction.

So what are you studying? Maybe like? Just give us a like for the dear listeners, a rundown. What do you do? Who are you? Oh my gosh, there's like a thunder outside. This is crazy. If you hear like a notification on a phone going off, or like a vibration, apparently it's Lucas phone just navigating us through this episode.

Yeah, congratulations. So, yeah, go ahead. Sorry.

Lucas Ciscato 2:26
Okay, so I am a technology engineering design education major with a teacher licensure, which is a mouthful, but basically what we do is we learn how to become an educator in any realm that deals with technology, engineering or design. So I can do I especially like to focus on the design part of things like Adobe products and video production is actually the class that I'm currently observing and will be student teaching this fall or this spring. Oh,

Veronika Becher 3:01
is it? What department is it in? Again, education, education. And how did you decide to do that?

Lucas Ciscato 3:09
That's a good question. I did not want to go to school in the US. I was not planning on doing that. I was hoping to go in the Netherlands. But then I had, like, this whole crazy situation happen, whole medical thing that we can get into if you want to, but it's a lot, um,

Veronika Becher 3:28
I mean, you have, you have time, so go ahead. I'm not stopping you from telling me new stories. This is how you spill the tea without actually being allowed to drink any tea in the studio. So upsetting. And then Lucas also doesn't like tea, so no. Shame on you.

Lucas Ciscato 3:45
I was thinking right before this, like, maybe I should drink some tea before I talk for however long. Like, you know, get get that voice nice and warm. It's essentially, yeah, go ahead, especially after doing an ice bath. Because I did that this morning. You did a nice

Veronika Becher 3:59
bath. That's crazy. Well, I actually did an ice bath before, too.

Lucas Ciscato 4:03
How was that?

Veronika Becher 4:06
Oh, I don't know. This is the story about you, not about me, but basically it was just, I have a friend who's right now in Ireland, and he just called me up randomly, and was like, even raining and snowing outside, and he's like, Veronica, get your swimsuit ready. It's like, dark outside. I think it was like 10 o'clock or something. It's dark, like, you don't see anything outside. It's just like raining and super cold. And he's like, we cannot go ice bathing. Like, I'm not ready for that. And so basically went inside. And apparently people go inside the water, and they it was like a lake, a really cool lake in the wilderness, and usually people go inside and they just stay in the water. But I was like, this is cool. So I ran outside. But then my brain was like, you can't just not go inside. You're gonna regret it your whole life for not experiencing this whole thing. Me once a lifetime experience. So I went back inside. Then I'm like, This is too cold. I need to go outside. So I did this three times in a row. And Eric, my friend, he just looked at me. He's like, what's wrong of you? I've never had in my whole life someone returning back to the water, even though you just said that it's too cold. And then I'm like, I had to go outside. I can't, you know, but yeah, what's the story of, you know, ice bathing? Yeah,

Lucas Ciscato 5:27
oh, well, ice bathing was for the discomfort club. We went running and then went on ice bath today. But the story that I was alluding to earlier is, well, right after high school, I had planned, I was planning this senior trip with my with my best friend, actually, for since middle school, because I wanted to show him around the Netherlands and Italy, because that's where I kind of grew up. And then throughout high school, we just started making more friends and kind of forming a group that senior year started to get a lot of tension, but we got to the point of planning the trip with everyone. So we're like, we can do this. It'll it'll work out. And yeah, so we went to Europe. We which, you know what they say is, like, the best way to know someone, or to know if you actually can be friends with them, is to go on a trip with them.

Veronika Becher 6:26
Oh my gosh, wait, where's the saying from? Because Russians say the same thing. Really seriously.

Lucas Ciscato 6:32
It might be from, I don't know a Russian saying, because,

Veronika Becher 6:34
yeah, the Russian saying, like my mom would tell me all the time, if you want to know who the person is, you have to go on like, a field trip, yeah? And once you spend time with someone 24/7, you actually know what the person is like. And there's a second saying, it's like everyone has cockroaches on their head, meaning, oh my gosh,

Lucas Ciscato 6:56
I've never heard that one that was loud.

Veronika Becher 6:59
Yeah, the weather was crazy, cockroaches, and basically it's like dal kind of goavia. That's like the word I cannot roll the R. If anyone is listening, I can actually not roll the R. The German R is canceling. It's out. And it means everyone has their own issues and like things like habits or tics that make them kind of strange in a way, but it's your choice to accept them and to like them. And if you can't live with these traits, then you just shouldn't be with the person. It's kind of like a life advice,

Lucas Ciscato 7:33
right? So you got to learn to love the cockroaches, yes, inside of me, because everyone

Veronika Becher 7:37
has them, right? It's like, there's no one perfect out there that will be like, Oh, I don't have anything. I think I'm perfect. I don't have any flaws and issues, because a flaw can be different from person to person. So you might see something and you know the person in front of you, yeah,

Lucas Ciscato 7:53
that makes sense. The cockroaches is kind of crazy.

Veronika Becher 7:56
I know. I don't want to imagine any cockroaches in my head. Just saying, not my thing, especially since I'm living in North Carolina, I don't want to think about that. We have way too many of them

Lucas Ciscato 8:10
anyway. So my friends and I went on this trip, and a lot of things happened, emotionally speaking between everyone. So we had two people who were exes.

Veronika Becher 8:27
Oh my gosh, should I comment on that? You're just waiting and looking at me,

Lucas Ciscato 8:33
which is kind of crazy. That's crazy. And three days into the trip, one of them, I mean, a lot of things happen between everyone. So the tension was really high, and then we got to a point where there was like a breaking point where there was like a screaming match, basically, on day three of our three week trip, and it ended with like, Hey, I never want to be friends with you after this trip again. I'm going to pretend like I can deal with you, but I never want to talk to

Veronika Becher 9:01
you again. Did you escape this situation then so, so you decide to move

Lucas Ciscato 9:05
if, if you know me, I am very like caring, and I try to do everything to make sure everyone else is happy,

Veronika Becher 9:14
so selfless in all kind of aspects, but disregarding your own exactly

Lucas Ciscato 9:19
important. So this had a very big emotional and mental impact on me, and I ended up starting getting, starting to get symptoms like swollen legs, and was getting really tired, things like that. But I have the tendency to ignore anything that my body is telling me or anything like that when other people are going through emotional torment. So I was just continuing. We were walking like 20, 30,000 steps every day, and I end up with, like, really swollen feet to where my shoes don't fit. And so when we get to Italy, since my. Uh, aunt is a nurse. She was able to get me into a hospital to find out what it is, and they did some blood work, and found out I have lupus, which is an autoimmune disease that, like your body attack or your immune system attacks your organs. And in this case, it attacked my kidneys, and so I was getting, I was having, like, pretty bad kidney failure, and had to be rushed back to the US to go to the hospital, because they said you need long term care, and it's better if you do that at home rather than here. And I

Veronika Becher 10:38
feel bad now, interrupting this whole notional story. Can you give, maybe the listeners, a rundown where you from in kind of a little bit like, why the Netherlands? Why Italy, why the United States? What's happening there? Because I think it might clear up the situation. And we come back to the story,

Lucas Ciscato 10:57
I swear for sure. So I was born in Mexico to a Dutch mom and an Italian father.

Veronika Becher 11:10
This is when you, like, travel so far just to meet someone who is, like, has Dutch ancestry. You're like, this is how far it came my life, and I still meet people from the area, since I'm literally two hours away from the Dutch border. So yeah,

Lucas Ciscato 11:26
and I lived there until I was four, and then when we when I was four, my parents or my dad got a job opportunity. Well, it was still within the same company, but it was just moving locations to go to China, and we lived in Hong Kong for one year, and then, because my dad was working in China and driving from one place to the other or going to hotels for four days a week, was was difficult for our family. My we decided to move to mainland China, and I ended up living there for three years. And after that, I moved to the Netherlands, and I lived there for one year, and we then got the opportunity to move to the US. So we had to go to Italy to get our visas, which is really hard, and it's crazy to me how difficult it was for us to get our visas while we had like, an entire company that was trying to get us to the US, so they had money, they had attorneys and everything trying to help us apply for a visa. But it still took, like, six months that we stayed in Italy, and then we finally made it to the US, and I've been here since.

Veronika Becher 12:43
And when did you get diagnosed? Is it just to put, like, the whole thing in the timeline? Um, it was before you moved to the United States, right, with

Lucas Ciscato 12:54
lupus. That was actually during that trip, so, like, two years ago. Oh,

Veronika Becher 13:00
yeah, that's crazy. How old were you there? Like,

Lucas Ciscato 13:08
1818,

Veronika Becher 13:10
that's crazy. That's yeah, I don't know. I can't really speak from like experience when it comes to this thing. But does it affect your daily life in a way.

Lucas Ciscato 13:21
I mean, the biggest way it's affecting me right now is the fact that I have to take immunosuppressant medication, which is not good for your body or your immune system, because you're literally, like, suppressing what's keeping you from getting sick. And it also, I mean, the medication also has a lot of long term chances of causing cancer or things like that, to where it's kind of like a balancing risk of how much medication do I take to suppress my immune system so that doesn't attack myself, to the cost of, like, what could happen in the future.

Veronika Becher 14:02
There's like other diseases too, with what is a multiplic sclerosis with, like, MS, yeah, MS, is there another letter in this whole thing? But basically it attacks also, like your immune system in your body works against it, yeah. And I have someone in my family who has that, so it's kind of like a I can imagine how difficult it is, but it also like affects you differently. Um, oh my gosh. I just hope that you never get cancer. I feel like I have a huge family history of cancer at least these past two years, right? Um, yeah, since, like, my grandma went through like, cancer, and she just recently died, and it's just, it's just crazy, how many people have diseases that you're not even aware of, that people don't talk about. But then, basically, almost each second person that you see has something you. Images and gives you an understanding that life is so short and we should value it more, even though it's so difficult. Sometimes, maybe I have a question with you, traveling and moving so many, just so many places, since I've been also traveling a lot, and I feel like, how do you handle like finding friends, or, like, a connection to culture when you don't know the language, I don't assume you know Chinese, even though you lived there for a year. Did you go to like, were you homeschooled? You go to a specific school? Like, how did it affect your childhood? If that makes sense, yeah,

Lucas Ciscato 15:38
growing up, I actually had a really hard time with all the moves. So one thing that we would do every summer and winter was go back to the Netherlands in Italy to be there with our family, or the company my dad works for would pay for it, since we were expats, and so we would have like our home or like our family in Europe, but it also made it really hard for when I had like, vacate, like summer or winter time off before school, and I couldn't see my friends because I was going to Europe and only going to family, visiting everyone in the Netherlands, everyone In Italy, and then for two weeks and going back to the to so it's always stressful in that sense. But yeah, I always had a hard time, because I'm someone who, at least used to get very emotionally attached to people in like, I'm not saying necessarily, in an unhealthy way, just like I really cared about people, and so when we lived in Mexico, I My grandma told me the story recently where I was I went from Mexico to the Netherlands for the first time, because I was born in Mexico, and my when I was in my grandparents house, I would literally pack up my bag. And one day I literally left, went outside the door in the middle of the night because I was like, I'm out of here. I want to go back home, back to Mexico. And so I'm saying that to show like, for me, it was always really hard not to stay in one place and to be with the people who I would consistently see, and being in a different like experiencing that change, and then it happened so often to where, at this point, I've kind of learned in maybe, like, both it can be a good thing, but also a bad thing, to keep My connections with people more like, I can compartmentalize it and just like, have a connection in a moment, but I can easily be like, Okay, it's done, like, I'm out of here because I'm in a different country or in a different situation,

Veronika Becher 17:55
if you emotionally detach yourself much faster. Yeah, I've noticed that the issue is, you meet sometimes so many people, and then you're like, oh, it's the wrong time the right person, but then it doesn't always work out the way you want. Just recently, with the whole like Fulbright cohort that we had on campus and all these Germans, I felt like some people, I would love to have a longer conversation, and I'm was like, super sad that they left, and their flight is today, actually, so they probably just left the United States. And it's so strange where you meet strangers on the street or while traveling for like a brief second and realizing that you'll probably never see them again. And this is like, this bittersweet situation where you feel so attached and connected with a stranger that you just met, even for several months, and then you disconnect completely, and your lives drift apart. Um, yeah. Do you? Do you ever feel like you want to root like, lay down your roots somewhere? Like, do you feel like or you feel the opposite? You want to actually leave a place because of this disconnection between different places in the world

Lucas Ciscato 19:09
right now, I think both like my disconnect with the world, kind of like what you're saying with people, and that ability to do things, and also my ambition to learn new things and to see the world is really leading me to, just like I cannot imagine settling down right now, and I not to get very deep with it, but I feel like it's really connected to, like, a deep sense of loneliness, like, if I keep Moving on, going to new place, then there's constant simulation that keeps me going and like, I meet someone, we're friends, we're very we're connected and everything. And then I can go to a new place and blame our disconnect on that. And is, yeah, I feel like if I were to settle down somewhere, I would. Like, just feel very stuck, very lonely. Do

Veronika Becher 20:03
you think it's something you should work on yourself personally, or is it something based on, also exterior motives or how you grew up? I'm not trying to do like a psychology, logical, like analysis about you, but we literally had this conversation yesterday, and when you asked me why I feel the way I feel, and I was like, Lucas, honestly, you should better be on that podcast, because the how like we connect on so many levels, and we have so many like we agree on so many points where I'm like, That's just crazy, um, because I also feel lonely a lot of times, and I feel like I keep my schedule busy because of loneliness sometimes, and I'm getting better, but I also realize the more I pay attention to myself and how I feel, the more I get exhausted by people, because my body reacts to actually, it doesn't matter how many People you know, it's rather the quality of people that you're sure and you get more sensitive about the people that you surround yourself with. So yeah, anxiety and loneliness is probably a thing. Do you Do you feel like you're connected to one culture more than another? Out of all of the cultures right now I have on your list,

Lucas Ciscato 21:26
I I wouldn't say so, and that kind of brings me to, like, a point of Third Culture, kid like, that's a term that someone coined for children of expats or of missionaries, or people who work in the military, who tend to travel a lot, because, yeah, basically what it means like a third cultured kid is someone who grew up in a different culture from their parents, in a different one, like not in one consistent one. So it could be someone who moved around a lot, like I did, or also like the children of immigrants, who kind of have to balance the two cultures that they deal with. And for me, it was, like, really weird, because not only did I not grow up in the same culture as my parents, but my parents had different cultures, and my mom actually had a similar life like I did, and she also lived all over, so she's not that connected with the Dutch culture. So in a way, like my culture has always just been connecting with the culture I'm currently in. And obviously everywhere I've been has had impact on the way I experience life and what I do. And like, yeah, my thought patterns, things like that. But I'm also a very adaptable person to where I just kind of experience and go along with the culture that I'm living in right now.

Veronika Becher 22:56
Would you say you can actually call a specific place at home? Or is it a feeling?

Lucas Ciscato 23:01
I definitely don't think I can call a place home. I would say, more than anything, it's a feeling. It's definitely the question I dread the most when meeting people. It's like, where are you from? Because I have no idea how to answer that. It's

Veronika Becher 23:14
literally, when you apply to Caldwell, you remember, and it was like, we have this debate. And I'm like, I don't know. I sometimes even question it where I should be from and, like, what culture I should put myself in. It's actually like a fun fact. After the whole thing with lodana's episode that we like recorded, my mom actually listened to it, and she was like, did you know that technically, my grandpa, or great grandpa, was from Moldova, and then we were just sitting there, and I texted, load down, and I'm like, Do you know what she just said? And apparently my mom said, of the family also is German, Germans, so it's a mix. I don't even know. I used to separate my parents in like, two cultures, but there's so many overlaps internally too. Well, I'm super confused. And so this point it's like, just yeah, really confusing and strange, yeah. And I also feel like, you take certain values from different cultures, yes, for sure. Like, I could never put myself in one culture. And I feel like, how do you you know, lodonna was super happy. She's like, Oh my gosh, she Moldovan. I'm like, No, I'm not, but she's like, Moldova, and she just could stop, like, texting me these messages. So it was just, it just made me so happy. Like, seriously, but it's funny. But I'm just curious, do you ever like, do you think like there's, do you feel at home here, um, in North Carolina, to clarify, yeah, I

Lucas Ciscato 24:50
would say I don't necessarily feel at home here. I mean, like we talked about at home is more of a feel. Feeling of like, at least in my opinion, with where like you're with, the people you're most connected with, I would say. But even then, I feel like there's also aspect to it, where you feel like you're culturally connected to where you are and things like that. And that's always made it really hard for me to feel at home, is because I've always felt different in different ways from other people. Yeah,

Veronika Becher 25:25
I I feel like this episode is just like I connect so much to them, like I actually have so much to share too. And it's actually not an episode about me. I feel this way, like when I visit my Aunt, aunt in in Russia, I would never live in Russia. Like, I don't see myself living there, but I feel like the people and the family members make it feel more at home. And I miss it so much. It's been like, now four years, five years as having been there, and I miss it so much. Like, I really, really miss Russia. But I also feel like there's a disconnect between the people that make you feel a certain way in the place, and once the people are gone, the places doesn't feel the same way. And that's how I feel like about my college city that I used to live in, in Germany, like the people are gone, they all over the place in different countries, so the place doesn't feel the same anymore. It's a bittersweet moment where you return and you realize life happened. And I don't know if you feel similar about it.

Lucas Ciscato 26:32
I yeah, I think I do. I mean, I when I go back to the Netherlands and Italy, I do have my family there, and it does really feel like home for that same sense, like you're saying with Russia. But I feel like if I were to go back to where we were in China, or if even back to, like the school I went to in the Netherlands, because I felt really connected there at the time. But and I still have like this, I don't know, I look at it through, like, golden glasses. I know what the word is for it, but I really see the Netherlands as, like, oh, like, the perfect place where I want to be. Isn't a rose colored glass? Rose colored glasses? Yes, exactly when to international

Veronika Becher 27:16
people find the words to describe something in English.

Lucas Ciscato 27:23
Yeah, but yeah, so I still see the Netherlands kind of in rose colored glasses, because when we moved from So, like I said, I always had a hard time moving, and I would be so devastated when my parents would give me the news. And when we moved from China to the Netherlands, I was like so mad and crying, like, nights and nights in, and then my parents were like, no, but like, we're gonna stay here. Like, this is where we're gonna move. We're gonna be close to family. We're not gonna have those trips every summer that we used to have. And that actually gave me, like, a final sense of hope, of like, okay, I'm finally gonna feel at home and feel like I'm in my place, and then, like, seven months later, my parents are like, Oh, well, in about a year, we're gonna go to the US.

Veronika Becher 28:13
Do you regret it like, you know, looking back, it's a different feeling than being in the moment. Have you ever regretted that you had to move? Was it something? Is it completely negative of being in different places, or was it also positive

Lucas Ciscato 28:29
in the moment? It was definitely negative, but now, I mean, it's my life. It's the story of my life. It's what makes me who I am. So

Veronika Becher 28:41
it's okay if we need a Yeah,

Lucas Ciscato 28:47
so,

Veronika Becher 28:48
so sophisticated, sophisticated,

Lucas Ciscato 28:53
so in the moment, it was definitely very painful and very difficult. And I honestly, like, didn't understand why if, if a God existed, like, why he he hated me so much. Like, that was the constant thing in my brain. But now I look back on it and say, You know what? Like, it created person, who I am, I'm, I have my identity because of everything that I've gone through, and all the places have had their their cultural impact on me, and that includes like, their values and things like that. And so now it also gave me my like, the perspective I have the global perspective to where I feel like I can understand people very well from different cultures and connect to that with them pretty quickly. But I'm still working on getting like deeper to where like it really has like I've more of an emotional attachment with it, rather than just. So, like I said earlier, can compartmentalize it and just be like, Okay, that was very nice in a moment, kind of like you were saying, like, sometimes when you're traveling, you'll meet some cool people. I also want to have, like, I love those people that I meet for the moment, and it's, like, very special, because it was in that moment right there. But I also want to have those people that I feel very connected to for life, or at least for an extended period of time, where it doesn't just feel like, okay, I'm going to connect with them and get deep in everything, because I know that at some point it's going to go away, but it doesn't have to, because we have technology and we have all these things that can help us make sure that connection is alive.

Veronika Becher 30:41
Yeah, I'm a bad texter. People make jokes about it. Apparently I'm like texting like a dad shout out to runes dad. I guess I don't know. I feel like we're the same person now, um, I'm getting there, and I feel like it's super difficult to keep in touch with people that you care about. Um, especially when you travel and move. And there's even a theory, I don't remember the exact number, but my dad once told me it's like, there are certain amount of people that you can keep in your closest surrounding. And it's the same with, like, remembering names, and once you move to places, they get replaced. And it's a really sad concept, but it's kind of like it makes sense. The closer circle changes, the more you emerge with certain like or surround yourself with certain people. So once you leave a place and you're not close to them anymore, and you're not untouched as much these people move to like the second like, like on a second place, rather than the your inner circle changes and evolves. And it's kind of a scary thing, if you think this way, that the people you see might be one day, almost strangers to you exactly, even though you felt like they were like your closest people. Now, maybe speaking of values, would you say there's certain values that you like or hate and rather, what values have you taken from certain cultures? And was like, I know this is a loaded, this is a long, big question, but is it like, do you feel like certain values, um, are difficult to implement in the United States or not? Yes, I don't know,

Lucas Ciscato 32:19
while I continue to think about the values part, like some cultural things that are difficult to implement is, for example, a Dutch biking culture,

Veronika Becher 32:28
oh my gosh, I should get a bike in the United States. Yeah,

Lucas Ciscato 32:34
yeah. I mean, like it works on campus, but you can hardly go anywhere else in the US, like in the Netherlands, if you wanted to, you could literally go from one side of the country to the other completely safely on well, you can also take your bike on the train, but you could bike on bike paths, and it's like, also very flat country, so it's like, perfect. You could do that. But here, like it works on campus. It works in neighborhoods, but you can't it. You really have to force it if you want to try the bike like anywhere else, if you want to go to a grocery store or something. I actually biked the middle school here because I was lucky to live pretty close to my middle school. But no one else did that. And we actually started a trend in my neighborhood, because other parents like, what you trust your kid to go alone, to like the school, like down, down the street in middle school. And, yeah,

Veronika Becher 33:30
this is the mean South Dakota for everyone who doesn't know. I lived in South Dakota for years a foreign exchange student. And I realized after like South Dakota is also like the area I lived in is really flat, close to Sioux Falls, and it was just really funny, because after like, living there for four months, I realized I cannot remember how to get home by foot, because we drive by car all the time, and I can just not remember any directions when I'm not the driver, or I'm not walking myself. So one day, I decided if I ever need to get home, I need to know the way home. So I walked and I got stopped by a police car. I actually never told this my host family, so I'm so sorry. My host family is listening. And they asked me if I'm okay, because I was walking home, and if I'm lost, I need to write. And I was like, I'm good. I'm just walking home. And they looked at me like, I'm crazy. And I've heard a similar story. It's these two guys that lived in, I think, Wisconsin, and they were riding their bikes. And also, again, the police stopped them and asked them if they're carrying any drugs on them, because they were like, You look suspicious. You're riding a bike instead of taking a car. And then they were like, This guy was telling this story to like all the other exchange students, and it was so funny. I'm like, Oh my gosh. She's like, pay attention. You can now walk everywhere you want. You need to be careful to not walk on someone. Property. But I always feel this way. I'm like, why can you not like, people could walk so many places? I just miss cities. I miss cities where you have like these, like stores in the city center. It's not the same. Downtown is not the same here. I just miss it so much. And then I also think there's a whole debate with, like, how many goods now make a business student, how many goods are imported or exported in the United States? And we, like, import so much into this country rather than producing it here. And I know I'm not going to get into the whole theory, but it's basically, I'm like, why can you not? Yeah, I guess you can change your culture that is already set up for cars and complete the

Lucas Ciscato 35:44
no and that's, that's like the biggest thing that I would want to change in the US is the car culture. Because, like you said, like those cities in Europe, it's, there's no comparison, like just being able to walk around, having shops there, having restaurants or or little like terrace cafes or something where you sit in the in a terrace and you don't see a car in front of you might see a lot of bikes, at least in the Netherlands, oh

Veronika Becher 36:10
my gosh. The Have you seen the bikes next to the train stations, the ones that look like there's a whole house full of just bikes? I'm terrified by that. That's like, seriously, something that I've never seen before. They literally

Lucas Ciscato 36:27
have, like, high tech parking lots for for bikes in the Netherlands, by the train stations. Like with you go in and it tells you exactly how many bikes are in that row where you can put your bike. It's multi layered, like, it's insane.

Veronika Becher 36:42
So basically, if you ever want to park your car, someone in the Netherlands is like, oh my gosh, I don't know if I could find a spot for my bike. And then that's gonna happen when you're like, I couldn't find a spot for my bike. Now my bike's gonna be sad and lonely in the rain. Um,

Lucas Ciscato 36:59
that's literally the way it is. I'm gonna miss the train because I can't find a parking spot for my bike.

Veronika Becher 37:04
Yeah. And also, isn't the thing, like, people avoid having really nice bikes because they know that they can get stoned really easily, especially

Lucas Ciscato 37:13
in Amsterdam. The crazy thing is, a lot of bikes will even be thrown into the canals. Like people are just like, oh, this bike is, like, unlocked or something, let me just throw it in the canal, or it's like, attached, and they'll throw it over the fence and it's just hanging on the fence like people are kind of crazy in Amsterdam.

Veronika Becher 37:34
Okay, no comments on that. I want to make a joke, but then I realize it's not appropriate in this setting for interesting bikes, I love how this conversation just went completely

Lucas Ciscato 37:47
with the values to throwing bikes over

Veronika Becher 37:52
so my dear friends, if you ever see people throw bikes, you know, into the canal, please don't take this value into your culture. That's not something what we want. No coming. You know, back to the values. Are there any other values that you feel like you've taken from these other cultures that you've lived in and you feel like you're missing or you've loved to implement in the United States?

Lucas Ciscato 38:17
I don't know if this is necessarily something I'm thinking about implementing, but a value or, I guess, more of a, yeah, something that Dutch people tend to do, or be like, is they're very pragmatic and very efficient. And, yeah, I feel like that's something that I really do too, like I'm very quick to the point when I'm doing something, and sometimes when there's someone else who's taking more of a roundabout way, it's like, sometimes I'm just sitting there, like, okay, there's an easier way, but I'll just let you figure this out. And like, I can think of a more efficient way that we could do this.

Veronika Becher 38:59
More efficient way I'm thinking. I don't know if Germans, well, we are trying to be efficient, let's say that, and we are, but it kind of sometimes has a downside. I feel like you see it in companies. When you're like in the corporate world, where you try to be really efficient, you don't connect with the people much. Yeah, that's true. There's efficiency can be negative, too. It takes away the human, human aspect in certain conversations that you might have. And that's something that I feel like I enjoyed the United States a lot, but it does keep you from, like, getting work done. It does keep you from getting other things done, yeah,

Lucas Ciscato 39:39
but at the same time, I feel like that inefficiency sometimes does lead to connection, and it's really cool. But for example, I don't know a big cultural difference, which a lot of people debate on whether they like it or not, and I'm interested to see what you say. But is that is the. Politeness in the US, then the apparent niceness that you don't have in Europe. In Europe, everyone's quick to the

Veronika Becher 40:08
point, no, I feel like we come up as rude. Sometimes Exactly.

Lucas Ciscato 40:13
So someone goes to Europe and they're like, wow, people are so rude. But I feel like when Europeans come to to the US, they often think like, oh, wow, everyone's so nice. They keep asking me how I'm doing, how life is, like, how the how all these things are. But then after two weeks, they're like, These people don't care about

Veronika Becher 40:30
actually care. It's like, you know, when you say, how are you? And then you don't always get an answer. You don't even have to sometimes give an answer. It's like, you just say to say it. It's a routine, and it's really funny, because when I lived in Germany, I would ask my roommates how they are, and I'm like, How are you guys? And they will be like, good. I'm like, no, no, no. How are you really Germans don't tend to like over do it sometimes, because they like, Tell me your deepest secrets and how you feel, and what are the emotional like, like, they just jump into a deep conversation with a stranger sometimes, and it can be quite intimidating or like, also invasive. Honestly, I totally get that, don't get me wrong, but I do miss it sometimes. Although we have small talk in Germany, people just they don't really analyze it properly. Probably, I don't know, we

Lucas Ciscato 41:24
talk about weather, about the weather, about sports.

Veronika Becher 41:27
It's a weather specifically sports. Sports is not a small talk, because sports people know what soccer team you're voting for, and if your soccer team is not the one on the list, it's bad for you, because Jordan versus little turdon, oh my gosh. I know I was not even thinking about that. I'm like, thinking about shulker and like buying and it's just we had this one kid in high school that was a shulker fan, and he just was the only kid in my class that loved shalka, and everyone was just like making fun of him for several years, because how dare you like a different soccer team? So sorry, soccer fans. I'm sorry. I just that I haven't mentioned your soccer team yet on this podcast, but basically, I totally get that, and we talk about the weather. It's like you complain about the weather and the Deutsche Bahn

Lucas Ciscato 42:21
in if you complete Japan is pretty bad. The

Veronika Becher 42:25
train system, well, it's not bad. It's not China, but it's, I know it's late and sometimes it's not there, but have you ever flown like just from New York to North Carolina.

Lucas Ciscato 42:41
I mean, that's even that's so much worse is the airports here you are

Veronika Becher 42:45
trying to just go down the east coast for two hours. And it always, I never had even once a normal flight home or there. It takes me double the time. And I'm not even gonna get into the details of how lordano is trying to get to Washington, DC. And it was just like the worst trip ever. So, yeah, I don't know I would say sometimes we complain about a lot of things, but it connects people and the culture difference is, like my Irish professor in Germany would tell us this big difference between Irish or like, English people from the UK specifically, and German people. You sit on a bus, it's really hot and humid. You people from the UK, they have like this, like, stiff upper lip. This is like, like mentality. It's like when you don't say anything as a whole, like, background, it's like, I don't know if you want to hear the background, but I can, like, give you, like, a rundown, if you want to.

Lucas Ciscato 43:48
I'd be interested in hearing like, I don't want to talk about that.

Veronika Becher 43:52
Basically, it comes back from the French Revolution. And people considered when the French Revolution happened, a lot of people, and please correct me if it's wrong, but that's what I've learned in school. At least, consider it or combine emotions, associated emotions with the French Revolution. And so a lot of people in the cave were like, we're not gonna do this, because a French Revolution helped, because we showed emotions. So they developed a sense of stiff upper lip, meaning you don't say anything, no matter what happens. So there are occasions when you drink alcohol, when you like, Let down your hair, and you can do anything you want, and no one will judge you. And even if you're the boss of a huge company, and you will drink so much and fall and pass out, no one will even comment on that in the next day, because alcohol gives you an excuse. But then once, I think Princess Diana, Diana was like the first person where people start showing emotions, and was like the first breakdown in like, UK history. Was like, oh, Great Britain specifically, maybe to like. I put in more parts of the of Great Britain into the whole story, that it's okay to show emotions, but people still have this mentality of not showing emotions because it leads to bad things. And basically, if you drive in a bus, no one would even mention it, but Germans, the first five minutes you're in the bus, they would like, shout and be like, we need to open the windows. We need to do that. We need to change this whole thing. We need to fix it. So that's like, the culture difference, and you need to be cultural aware. I think of these differences when you travel and try to understand it. But yeah, French Revolution, fun fact,

Lucas Ciscato 45:40
yeah, I wonder if that's where pardon my French comes from. Oh, because, like, you kind of say it when you show too much emotion by cursing. Say, pardon my French.

Veronika Becher 45:51
I was thinking, I don't know when I hear that, I felt more like pardon my French in a way of like, when people used to speak French, and that was like, one of the most like, the languages that a lot of people that come from good families would speak. Well, I feel like when your French isn't good enough, you might be like, I'm so sorry for my French. It's not as good. It's the same as people say, Oh, my English is not as good. I kind

Lucas Ciscato 46:19
of want to look it up. Not now, obviously, but oh, that's

Veronika Becher 46:24
gonna be follow up thing I'm gonna in the next episode. You gotta get the follow up. Why part of my French? Uh, what's the thing? But that's interesting. I don't know. Yeah,

Lucas Ciscato 46:32
now that, now that you mentioned that, I actually feel like I've heard that it was because English speaking people would see French as, like, a lower level language, and I might be wrong about that, so don't quote me on that. Let's look it up. But they considered it as a lower level speaking language. So like, lower class I guess so if they would speak in French, it was like, pardon my French, like, but I don't know about that. Maybe you're right, actually, that it was the opposite, that it's like they French was a higher level language to where, if they didn't speak it, well, they would be like part of my French.

Veronika Becher 47:08
I don't know if I can even start this debate, because my only thought is like Italian French opera singers and how literature and a lot of things worked only in French, mostly. And you had the the whole like French, like your people used to speak French if they were like in the higher up like classes and had more money and were more influential, and it was almost like a world language. And I think when I got voted into what language to speak English just won over, like French and some other languages, and that's why people switched over.

Lucas Ciscato 47:48
Fun fact, in the US, it actually was two votes that decided English over Dutch as the main language.

Veronika Becher 47:59
There's like, that's crazy. Yeah, I feel like everyone has this, like debate what language to use. There's a huge debate also, like, in certain parts about Russian, because a lot of papers, especially scientific papers, were written also in Russian, what's kind of like a weird, strange thought to have, but yeah, and maybe, like, the other thing with alcohol and like, in bars. Have you ever heard about you know, when you go to a bar and you want to know where the person is standing in the bar and who's who? Like, who's from what country? Well, I'm curious, where would you put the Dutch person in the room full of people and the Italian.

Lucas Ciscato 48:42
See, the hard thing is, I'm not a I'm not the I'm not a big drinker. I'm not a drinker at all, actually. So I don't necessarily have experience with it to where I would have a an educated guess, but I can, I'm gonna say, like Dutch people would probably be with their own group, doing their thing. Italians would probably be very like, open, open, big, expressive, trying to get to know new people. But I might be completely wrong with that. My parents might listen to this and be like, you got that completely wrong. You don't know your cultures.

Veronika Becher 49:23
Yeah, I feel like Germans tend to also be by themselves. But alcohol can bring people together. But I don't think that should be an excuse. Um, and I was joke, because, like, sometimes you find people from the UK at the bar, and you're like, because it's like, alcohol gives you a sense of, you can talk about anything you want. Irish people do that too. Sometimes, not everyone. I'm not trying to journalize, but it's the thing that you see. It's like, once you leave the bar, you're kind of like, you don't talk about these really critical, controversial opinions. Yeah, I. Maybe, like, um, one last like question, do you have a favorite place that you feel like that's where you want to live later on in life?

Lucas Ciscato 50:10
So I feel like I still just like I said before with the rose colored glasses, I look at the Netherlands as, like, a really nice place, because I genuinely do really like when I'm there, because of the infrastructure and stuff, but I fear that the more like sticking to the people you know, kind of mentality would not be for me. So that's why, like visiting there, going to my family, I always feel like the Netherlands is such a nice place. The infrastructure is amazing. I love my family there, and the fries are good, for sure. I I really like Dutch breakfast, and I know it's very controversial. A lot of people are like, Oh, Dutch breakfast is terrible. What do you eat for breakfast? Dutch people have like slices of bread, like and on the bread, they'll usually put, like butter and cheese, Dutch cheese or but not like a whole sandwich, so it's just like the cheese. Or we also have like this kind of, like sprinkles that you put on top of a cake. But we call it hachlach,

Veronika Becher 51:22
the chocolate one. Oh my gosh. I know these are, these are, like, they look a little bit. They longer, and then you I've seen that, and they're

Lucas Ciscato 51:32
softer. Like the sprinkles you buy at a store for cake are very hard, so you can't really replace it, like, chocolate, yeah, sprinkles. And they also have different ones. They have, like, I don't know, fruit flavored ones, things like that. So I really like that breakfast. I don't know if it's just a nostalgia of like, every time I'd go back to to the Netherlands be with my family, I'd be like, Oh, we get to eat this again. But I think it's really good.

Veronika Becher 52:00
Do you do? What do you drink to that?

Lucas Ciscato 52:04
Um, I would say typical thing would be, like, the Dutch people have a brand of chocolate milk. That's, that's very popular there. That's like, called Shoko Mao. And you could either warm that up or drink that cold. I mean, in the US, when you get hot chocolate, you always get water based chocolate drinks. But in the Netherlands, it's milk based. And so I'd say that's pretty normal. There's, like, specific Dutch drinks that I don't really know how to like. There's a specific orange kind of like Fanta, I guess. And

Veronika Becher 52:36
what's the name you can you can mention it.

Lucas Ciscato 52:39
I think it's siski, but I haven't. I whatever. Think it's siski, but siskiy, I think, is, I don't know if that's the orange, that would be strawberry flavored milk is also a thing. I think I'm not. I've never been a drinker of it, so I'm not like confident. What

Veronika Becher 52:55
I miss about the Netherlands, because we'll go there quite often with my parents, since my mom loves the like the we'll go to denhag a lot if we pronounce it wrong. I'm so sorry. I apologize. And there are some other places, but it just by the coast, and we would like rent out a little like apartment or like, by the beach, or maybe even a hotel that doesn't have really, like, it doesn't serve food, it's just more like to sleep there, and then maybe breakfast. And so I was just curious if that's what I've experienced. Was the thing, and I miss, oh my gosh, I miss going to, um, first of all, I love the seven up there. This is really random, but seven up and the Netherlands tastes so much better than anything else, anywhere

Lucas Ciscato 53:44
for a second, I thought you said 711 but no, seven up, yes, for

Veronika Becher 53:48
sure, seven up just as bad. And sprite in this specifically, only there better. And the other thing is the chicken, the chicken like, actually, well, for Americans, is not a big thing, but Germans don't really have it in their grocery stores. Like, it's like, ready, pre cooked chicken that you can eat. It tastes really good with some like, potato salad. Yeah, I don't know. It's not probably typical Dutch but there's a specific Dutch supermarket that would like jumbo

Lucas Ciscato 54:20
or Albertine blue, or is it yellow? Those are, like the two big ones.

Veronika Becher 54:26
I saw both.

Lucas Ciscato 54:28
They're both everywhere. I think it's a yellow one.

Veronika Becher 54:32
And then, and then the soft the soft serve ice cream, for some reason, some nice that was and, of course, fries. And I always like joke when people visit me in Dusseldorf that we have the how do you say it the special? The special? Yeah, so it's fries with some mayonnaise. Please don't judge me here, because everyone apparently judges me with eating fries with mayonnaise. It's normal in Europe, yes. And then you have kind of like a barbecue sauce, but it's not the same as here. And then onion pieces on top. The onion is like, not sweet, but because of the sweet sauce, it's just perfect,

Lucas Ciscato 55:21
yeah, and it's not the only thing you can, like, have space out, like, you can get free Condell special, which is a type of meat that they sell at, like, fries places like space Al, is just that type of mixture with with the onion, and

Veronika Becher 55:35
that's so crazy. And then people look at me like, You're crazy. I'm like, try it, and then you will complain about it in Yeah,

Lucas Ciscato 55:43
another thing that I really miss from the grocery stores in the Netherlands is they all have like, this fresh orange juice making,

Veronika Becher 55:52
oh my gosh, yeah. It's like, that is like, you see the orange? Yes,

Lucas Ciscato 55:57
I miss that so much. It's so good.

Veronika Becher 56:00
I only saw it once. Where did I see it? In New York, somewhere, in a small, like grocery store, in like a Hispanic grocery store. Don't even ask me how this machine came there. I got there, but oh my gosh, yes. It's been a while. It's been a while. But the thing that I'm not missing is the rain in the weather, sometimes, because it's super windy, it's cold during vlog, it gets also warm, but it's cold and it's like gray, and I feel like it just gives me winter depression all year long.

Lucas Ciscato 56:31
See, I haven't been to Europe in the in the winter in a long time, like over well, actually, in 2018 I thought over 10 years, but it's not that long, with six years ago, so I don't actually really remember the winter depression, the winter depression, the

Veronika Becher 56:48
winter depression is real. I came back home after, like, last Christmas, I decided to travel back home, and I was like, Mom, why is your weather so bad? Like, I traveled here over 13 hours, just so the weather is so bad that I can't leave the house, and then I get sick too. It was not really fun, but I'm like, North Carolina has better weather than we do in Germany right now. It's every single day. It's just gray, no sun,

Lucas Ciscato 57:12
yeah, should we talk about the way we met? Okay, sure, I should go ahead. So basically, we were both finalists for Caldwell fellows here at NC State, and Veronica walks up in her winter jacket.

Veronika Becher 57:32
It was cold, okay. We had this to give her a rundown. It was February, okay. And no matter who tells me it's not cold in North Carolina, and I see you, I see you have these shorts and slippers every single day. I get it, but I'm freezing. Okay? I'm freezing, seriously.

Lucas Ciscato 57:50
And everyone else was dressed up, and no one else had a coat except the two of us. And I was just like, that's such a European thing, like actually dressing for the weather, even if you're going inside in like, 10 minutes.

Veronika Becher 58:04
And then he was like, Are you from Europe? And I was like, I'm Jim. I'm like, why are you wearing a jacket? Though he's like, I'm half Dutch and half Italian. And I was like, this is this explains everything. We were the only team with jackets. Literally, the the whole event was not even set up to have jackets, because we had to carry them the whole time. And I just had this huge green jacket. I didn't even know what to put it for all the interviews. And I'm like, This is crazy. Should I just wear it with my suit on? It's like a second suit that you put on and then you sink in, because he's, this is, like, my marshmallow code. That is so huge that you just dive into it, is the thing. It's like, it's the same effect when you see Slavic person, probably not relatable to you, Lucas, unless you want to out yourself as a Slavic person, that someone in your family has some Slavic roots, that'll be funny. After this episode, your mom will come out like,

Lucas Ciscato 59:08
you're, you have part you're part German, part Russian, and part of bald open, exactly.

Veronika Becher 59:15
And the guy that was like, I don't know, fixing lodana's foot up, you know, buof is actually your uncle story, no, but basically, who was I? Oh my gosh, yeah, basically, when you have so many backgrounds and stories to tell, but I just lost my thought for the first time alive,

Lucas Ciscato 59:43
you're talking about being Slavic. Oh, yes, uh,

Veronika Becher 59:47
yeah, that would be really funny. But Slavic people would probably also dress, uh, really warm, and they would lecture you like, all the time if you don't wear anything warm. And my mom would like. If you do, don't do that, if you sit on this cold stone, you will probably get, you know, an infection, and then you will die soon, slowly. And Italians

Lucas Ciscato 1:00:08
are the same way, very superstitious, and very much like, oh, like the cold will do this or that. You know, if you go into the water after you eat, you've eaten things like that that scientifically are now kind of like, I mean, maybe questionable, yeah, but that's definitely an Italian culture kind of thing is also just being very superstitious about things.

Veronika Becher 1:00:29
Well, we realized that the Italian roots in you are, like, screaming, give me good coffee in the United States. Um, do would you say? Would you say Italian coffee is superior to any other coffee.

Lucas Ciscato 1:00:42
I have heard that apparently Australian coffee, specifically in like Melbourne, is better than Italian coffee, because they have all the Italian immigrants, and apparently they've learned to do it better.

Veronika Becher 1:00:55
Do you know why I feel like so many stories just correlate with my stock. Do you know the story of Starbucks failing in Australia? I didn't hide it. Starbucks was trying to establish their whole like program system and a franchise chain in Australia, and they failed because they realized that the culture of drinking coffee is so different while here, it's like a lot on the go. It's like, hey, coffee, and then I drink it while walking somewhere, well in Australia, and prove me like you can correct me if I'm wrong, but Italians probably also a sit down culture, yes, and it's a thing of you value small coffee shops that are family owned over big franchise chains.

Lucas Ciscato 1:01:43
Yeah, that's why it Starbucks hadn't made like coffee and or Starbucks didn't start a franchise in Italy for a long time because of that. But now you know, Tiktok and things like that have really hyped up Starbucks for the younger generation in Italy. So it's actually has become a thing, and it's slowly like they're starting to get Starbucks is everywhere. But for the longest time, they wouldn't do it, because, one, the coffee isn't as good. But two, there is not that culture of, like, get to go coffee. No, you you really sit down. You might even know the owner of the shop. And you'll talk, and you'll be like, oh, like, how are things? How have things been? And you might know, the people who regularly come or go there,

Veronika Becher 1:02:27
I miss that. I really want coffee shops like that. Jubal. I cannot do everything for my European Heart, because I feel like just sitting down and having good chat over coffee. And also, I don't know, maybe just me, but I feel like getting coffee with someone here is different than getting coffee in Europe, if it's specifically when we're talking about genders and things like that. Like if I ask a guy, Hey, you want to get coffee with me. It's a different connotation than this in Europe, for sure, like, just me, I don't know.

Lucas Ciscato 1:03:08
I do think that's the case. I mean, I don't. I'm not necessarily, like, I didn't grow up in Europe as, like, a person of youth. I don't know how to say that. Like,

Veronika Becher 1:03:21
crazy, like, okay, so, so and the lady of the hour, okay, it's okay.

Lucas Ciscato 1:03:30
Because, like, I have all my cultural things for my parents, more than anything, because I only, besides that, one year in the Netherlands and, like, five months or six months in Italy. Like, I never really grew up around other people who are Dutch or Italian that are my same age, so I don't know if that culture has changed and that now the connotation is the same as in the US, but I do feel like there's a different connotation based on my experience.

Veronika Becher 1:03:56
Yeah, it's just, I feel like in Germany, if you ask someone for coffee, it doesn't have to be romantic, like if I if someone sees me in a cafe with Lucas, please, please, my dear listeners, whoever's listening, don't assume right away that we're dating. It's crazy the amount of times where you explain to people that friendships exist, and that's a different debate for a day. And I know people disagree with me there. I think, especially in college, I do think that you can be friends with guys, and it's just,

Lucas Ciscato 1:04:32
I almost feel like it's something that you gain perspective on with a more multicultural background. Is kind of like becoming friends with people, with anyone like, it doesn't there's no like, oh, set rules of like, oh, I can only be friends with guys, or I can be friends with I can't be friends with girls, or even just being more accepting in general, because you just kind of learn to see everyone as people. And I feel like you get you learn how to connect to. Someone more. But at least that's my experience. I feel like

Veronika Becher 1:05:04
maybe just a comment, like, by the side, I feel like it's also difficult nowadays to distinguish and be like, Oh my gosh, I can't be with this person drinking coffee, because this person is a girl, and then this girl is not even into guys, and you're a guy asking her out, like there are so many, like, gender specific situations, and I don't know, like people identify themselves as so different that you can't, you can't just make an assumption based on what you see right away. And it shouldn't be someone's business, honestly, but it's okay. This is how you start a list of people that potentially are dating you and you like, congratulations. I'm looking forward to see what happens next.

Lucas Ciscato 1:05:50
Yeah, one thing that's funny is, in my room at home, I have like, a huge wall of pictures from high school, and some of the kids that my mom teaches has have seen that wall, and they'll be like, because I always ask me, like, Do you have a girlfriend? Do you have a girlfriend? I was like, no, no. And they'll see that wall and they're like, You lied. You had six girlfriends. I see them. You're hugging them into pictures.

Veronika Becher 1:06:18
It's the same as like, we had this conversation yesterday. Some people, they hug each other, and others don't culturally. And so it's always like, Oh my gosh. You're like, touching someone's hand. That means you're like, now together, they're gonna marry each other in a month. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, chill out. I touched someone's hand. You know, there is like, a difference? Okay, no, but that's crazy. And I never, never had this culture. I never had this thought it's a really interesting thing to share, that maybe it's a culture thing to the more cultures you know, the least you think about. You can't be friends with girls, but also maybe depends on what type of cultures you saw, right? For

Lucas Ciscato 1:07:00
sure, there's definitely cultural differences in that kind of aspect. But I feel like if you have a multifaceted experience, where you kind of experience both sides, both cultures, you kind of learn like, you know what I mean? It depends on the person, of course, in their own values.

Veronika Becher 1:07:16
I think it's about boundaries, too, if you clarify from the beginning on, hey, I'm just meeting up with you as a friend. I'm not trying to get anything from you that is a big like. It makes a big difference. For sure, it's clear communication that makes a difference. And I think in a country where people are not clear communicator and they rather slide everything under the rug and they just try to, like, not address the elephant in the room. Well, I feel like it's difficult to be just open and say to someone, oh, I'm actually not interested in you. I just want to get coffee with you. It's the same thing as I just experienced just recently, where I explain to a guy that I'm not, like, interested in the person, but I ask him if he has a girlfriend, and it's super I just never know how to approach this. I realize Americans sometimes mention it in the beginning when they talk and they mention some fun fact, like, Oh, my girlfriend likes that too. That's how you know that someone is dating. But I just don't want to, like, have like, it's almost a protection of myself to know not that I don't trust you, but I just don't want to encounter the situation where I'm like, I'm like, hanging out with a guy who's like, married next three kids. Shout out to Mario for being, you don't know, for being married, and it's just and also to, like, avoid issues, especially if you get along with guys. And I just want to be friends, and I do enjoy, like, meeting people. I don't want people to always misunderstand. Think, oh my gosh, she's probably trying to get something out of me. I don't know if you ever experienced that with you approaching girls and then they're like,

Lucas Ciscato 1:09:07
I I've always been wary of it. Like, I've always been careful, because especially I feel like there's a fear of especially when a guy approaches a girl like, what exactly that could lead to. So I've always been very careful when you know, but I also feel like I get along more with girls. So in general, I just try to make it very like, I don't know when it comes to friendships. I just think one thing is, like you said, is very much the boundaries is very important, is just being very clear in communication. But I also believe that, I mean, the way I've approached it is always like trying to, if we vibe in a very like, I don't know, school setting, or something like that, if they kind of initiate things and I feel more comfortable making sure that they're okay with it. Yeah. That's

Veronika Becher 1:10:00
good. I think that's good. And that's also like maybe spinning down the whole topic of identity and coming back to the whole culture difference. It's important to understand from what culture the person is coming from, and maybe also doing some research. Honestly, this sounds a little crazy, but ask if the person doesn't provide you with enough background, maybe also understanding how culture works and it's complex. And I think for you, growing up, and like so many different cultures impacted your views on a lot of like things like friendships and relationships and like gender. So my dear my dear friend, do you want to leave something with a fun fact? What is the Fun Fact of the Day? Do you have a fun fact? Um,

Lucas Ciscato 1:10:47
okay, so fun fact about the Netherlands. Because we talked about this earlier, and it popped in my head, there are more bicycles in the Netherlands than there are people. Whoa. Is

Veronika Becher 1:10:59
this is good for our environment, especially for the water and, like, all the oceans. Okay, I'm joking. I'm joking, but yeah, that's crazy. But yeah, yeah, I'm gonna run down, run down, round

Lucas Ciscato 1:11:17
up. Second time, we're both like, No,

Veronika Becher 1:11:22
this is wrong. We're going up, not down. We are in the middle, ends. We don't have any obstacles down, unless you just jump into the water. That's why you don't swim in certain places, because they're bikes left at you. They will, you know, when you have these like movies, when you, like cross the path between life and death, and they're like some monsters under the water trying to pull you down. I don't even know this is the thought. Don't ask me where it's coming from. I don't even know what movies I'm watching to have these thoughts. But apparently, like in a Dutch like horror movie, it's probably just the bike that is pulling you down, instead of having like a no face first, like a monster. So it's like the invasion. So if you ever so, if Lucas ever decides to start a movie, you know, because he likes, you know, teaching kids about different cultures and and creating videos. And it's going to be named the bike,

Lucas Ciscato 1:12:31
the haunting bike, okay,

Veronika Becher 1:12:38
yeah, I hope this, this whole story sprinkled out your life a little bit. And you could put next time when you eat some bread with cheese and you probably want, but put some sprinkles on top of it so you sprinkle up your life so you don't get, you know, season, seasonal depression over the bad weather we have today. So thank you so much for being on my podcast.

Lucas Ciscato 1:13:01
Thank you for inviting me. This has been a lot of fun. Yeah, sorry for

Veronika Becher 1:13:05
I feel like you. I'm gonna invite you over and over again. I feel like there's so much to cover, but I appreciated your time, and I hope any one of the listeners enjoyed this whole strange conversation that was all over the

Lucas Ciscato 1:13:21
place. It literally was all over the place, like some unfinished story, some it's okay, open ended things, it's

Veronika Becher 1:13:28
okay, it's okay, yeah, but, um, thank you so much for listening, and I really hope that you have a wonderful day and see you soon. Bye. Bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai