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We are a podcast that aims to provide raw, real conversations about deep topics that concern a Christ-centered lifestyle.
We want to go where no one else wants to go, and we want to showcase conversations and topics that are not easily discussed. We do this by going in depth and providing a well thought and expressed conversation about these topics.
Jhon
Welcome to supernatural breakthroughs, where we have real, raw and unfiltered conversations about our Christ centered spiritual journeys. Discover mystical stories told by truth seekers on their many spiritual quests. We trust that these stories will help you on your own personal journey of discovery.
00:26
Jhon
The doctrines that we believe, they affect what we perceive. So let's begin with, what's a doctrine to start with? So what are doctrines?
00:35
Joao
A doctrine is a set of beliefs, perceptions, ideals, and let's say destinations.
00:42
Jhon
Destinations. And they would have within it assumptions of reality that are plausible, that make sense to us. And then ultimately a doctrine acts like a filter or a window that we perceive reality out of. And we grow within that doctrine. And that's why it affects what we perceive.
00:57
Hanka
Give you a limitation on your belief systems as well. So put you going in some way according to what you believe.
01:06
Jhon
So it affects the path and trajectory of where you're going and what you.
01:09
Hanka
Perceive and what you live.
01:11
Jhon
And what you live.
01:12
Hanka
Yes.
01:12
Jhon
Okay, so let's unpack a few very popular doctrines that we learn coming out of the new age. Personal development. There's a lot of them. So we'll kind of move through a few of these. And perhaps those of you listening can relate to this, that you kind of go, oh, yeah, I definitely believe that. Or my goodness, I have that assumption. Because a lot of times these become unconscious. We just assume them, we absorb them, and then they become part of the filters that we perceive through. So let's unpack a few for those familiar with NLP neuro linguistic programming or people like Doctor John Demartini. Beautiful stuff, great stuff. Very valuable.
01:43
Jhon
So definitely not dismissing it, but there is an assumption that the mind generates reality so that the reality is created from your interpretations of reality that happens through your mind and that impacts your emotions and that obviously shapes and affects your experience. But the presupposition there is that I am a mind, predominantly. And a lot of these people in those spaces are highly cerebral. If you have the ability to perceive energy, you'll see that there's a lot of mental activity. And so that's one doctrine that affects you in that particular way. Then we go to something like karma. We've all heard about karma, dharma. So if anyone wants to speak about that's one that kind of seen and heard and affects the way that you go. That's your karma. That's come back to you, that's happening to you because you deserve it.
02:30
Hanka
It's like how people are treating you. It's because of the way you were in the past. Now it comes back to you.
02:36
Jhon
Comes back to you as a lack of compassion. Must have kicked the kitten in your past life. So now you're having this experience. So that there's karma. And very logical as well. Like, I mean, a lot of these are highly plausible, you know. And they also have helpfulness to them in some respects, in some regards. So again, we're just unpacking this manifestation doctrines. They can also be crossovers with some of these doctrines. So manifestation that the movie the secret came out super popular. And, you know, manifestation. Can you guys relate to that one trying to manifest?
03:09
Hanka
Absolutely. I can actually share my friend's story. She was manifesting that she wants to become a millionaire. But she wasn't specific enough. And she ended up in Bali, indonesia. And she opened her bank account and she saw millions there. She's like, finally my wish came through. I manifested it, but I wasn't specific enough.
03:27
Hanka
In what currency?
03:29
Jhon
Right? What currency?
03:31
Hanka
So she really believed in manifestation? Yeah, because in the soulish realm, you.
03:36
Jhon
Can very boxed well, again, also, like, we're looking at the downside of some of these doctrines. So the downside, if you're a mind, you become very cerebral. If you believe in karma and Dharma all the time. Well, it's all about you having to burn it off, balance it off. You can be less empathetic because that person's suffering there. It's probably his karma and dharma. So nothing to do with me. So I'm just filtering that suffering through that. So why would I want to necessarily get myself involved? So that could be a downside to that particular doctrine. The manifestation doctrine. Well, there's many downsides to that. A lot of times, people become very cold. And they only want to be around people. High vibration, manifesting the same things. And anyone doing philanthropy work. Must have been really terrible in their past life.
04:18
Jhon
And they're just trying to. And they're manifesting that dharma. That vibrational resonance that is coming out of their own soul. And that's why they're doing that particular work. Which means. Well, hang on a second. Can't we be in a high vibrational state. Powerful people. And choose to go and love and help people suffering in third world countries, vulnerable children. Can't we just do that? Because love would do that? So it kind of starts to mess with your willingness to go into other realms of paradigms or countries where people are suffering. And just out of the. Isn't love wanting to do and help. So it can kind of block your love flowing out of your being. Exactly as can relate to that. You guys listening can also perhaps see that past lives. Hunker, I know you were a past life addict.
04:59
Jhon
I can use that word.
05:00
Hanka
Absolutely.
05:01
Hanka
I always found reason why people respond or contact me and what's the reason behind that step and the walk that I'm making the next in my life? But the interesting was when I was in a magic mushroom, I also heard that people are going through lots of purging because of their past lives. And they have to vomit a lot and suffer a lot. But for me, it didn't resonate with me. And I was, huh, what's going on in here? I thought, I'm into the past lives, and something is wrong in here that people keep purging and being in agony. And then I had this moment when I received the wisdom. Back then, I didn't know what's happening with me because I. Back then, I looked at my friend and I said to my friend, there are no past life.
05:45
Hanka
And it just came through me, this sentence. And I could not even believe myself what I'm just saying right now. Because I realized, oh, it's a prison. It's been my prison. I prisoned myself into that belief and carrying with myself, finding always the reasons and meanings in my life which didn't. Whose reality is that?
06:02
Jhon
Wow. So it's like this doctrine of past lives. And it was like a paradigm where you're filtering everything through that.
06:07
Hanka
Yes.
06:08
Jhon
I had a friend, let's call her Claire. And she was always going back through past life. I'm purging. I'm cleaning. I'm removing. I'm cleaning my dharma. This went on for years and years of suffering, suffering. This is strange. You're like in a paradigm of suffering, but you're justifying it, reconciling it, appeasing it, giving meaning to it. On the premise of the doctrine of this is my past life karma. Endlessly trying to balance that is really.
06:33
Hanka
Deep because at the end is a trap. We start to live in our own metric as well inside of our mind according to what we believe as being a reality. So basically, what we believe becomes our reality according to a belief system that is a lie. Because you have some kind of concepts that you put like almost gods in your own mind that give you this prison break. Because of that, you miss completely the gold of being present in the moment to really being free and to live a life without paranoia, without fear, without limitations. All these kind of concepts are prisons, and deception is deception, always.
07:15
Joao
But I do understand also why some people get into it, because if you look at objectively into reality, everything is cause and effect. You know, like, if you plant a seed, you will get a flower, this is for sure. But so you do see cause and effect playing out. And in a way, karma is basically cause and effect. But I think it's the enmeshment within the enamorment of you getting out of that cause and effect or purifying it. That's the loop. You get stuck into that place. Again, it's kind of like, yeah, again, I'm in another podcast. We talked about the ping pong game. It's just the ping pong game of the cause and effect. But you can actually, what Mariana is saying is that there's a higher place of grace, and grace completely breaks that.
07:52
Jhon
Box will definitely segue into grace and the difference of these doctrines. But yes, it's a great point. There's a lot of logic to it. Cause and effect. It's logical. This is happening for a reason. There has to be a reason. So I can also appreciate the logic behind karma manifestations. We've looked at that energy. So part of some of these doctrines is energy is all that matters. Hank and I, we worked with a guru where it was all about energy. Everything's about energy. Shigong, cultivating chi, holding chi, being able to build it up, store it. What I found happened in that doctrine for me is I became less kind. Why? Because I was obsessed with energy cultivation. Just building, absorb, watching who takes my energy, you know, which people have high energy, what atmospheres and places have high vibration.
08:38
Jhon
So it becomes this obsessive filter by which you're navigating, orientating constantly, looking for where is the highest energy. You know, who's giving me energy? What place is energy, what high vibrational food can I consume? Now, I'm not saying that's not good. It's nice to go to a beautiful beach in a forest and some places. So there's a truth within that. When that filter becomes an absolute doctrine that dominates you, what I lost is something I highly value, which is kindness and service and compassion.
09:07
Hanka
Yeah. Because you are so self centered in yourself and all these trying to figure out more and more that you lose your human way of behaving with others that are surrounding you. You can have somebody suffering at your side, that you are so focused on your own questions, on your mind, on your belief systems, that you are completely failing, that this person needs something, and it's just there for you. But you cannot realize. So that take out your clarity as well.
09:34
Joao
And so what I'm hearing you both say is also reminding me of when Jesus says, you will know them by their fruits. So I'm understanding all these doctrines we're talking about. They bear certain fruits, and fruits are like results or expressions. And so if we're growing in love and kindness, it does feel like we're on a good track. But if we're losing them, then I think that's like a warning sign as.
09:53
Jhon
A benchmark, an indicator I'm losing love and kindness because of a doctor. It's a good point. It's a good point. Let's take a look at another one. This one's to do with superstitions. For those out there listening to this that are familiar with spiral dynamics, I think it's developed by clare Graves. It has a number of levels of consciousness. And on the second level, there's, it's a tribal level. And so within the tribe, we go back in time, you'd have a chief of a tribe who governs, you know, a group of people. Of course, we still have that today. Certain countries, nations have a lot more fragmentation and tribes within them, for example, Africa, India, there's a lot of tribal mechanisms within. That doesn't mean there's not higher ones. But predominantly that does exist within a tribal dynamic.
10:35
Jhon
You have a lot of superstition, and this could be signs, different things. Maybe you want to talk about this a little bit. Hanke?
10:41
Hanka
Yeah. From my background and knowledge, living in Barney so long, it was a daily thing. They really believed if they don't sacrifice daily for their gods, for their spirits, they will be in a really bad luck. And something bad is going to happen with them or with their family. And I never forget there was a taxi driver who came to pick me up, and he was in fear death. Fear of death because of what happened. He saw someone dead. And it was really a bad luck for him and for his whole family. And he really believed that it's going to be something really bad now coming on his way. And we had to work with my friend on him before he was able to actually drive us to the airport.
11:23
Hanka
And it was really energy draining as well, because he really believed, because it's been coming from ancestors to ancestors, that wisdom passing.
11:32
Jhon
Yeah. And when we believe something, it actually affects us. When we actually step inside these doctrines and we consume them, it does manifest as real. That's the irony, because as you think you are, and so if I'm. When I was listening to you, I was thinking, what's the primary emotion behind that doctrine. Surely it's a lot of fear, a lot of superstition. There's a lot of fear there. If I don't appease the spirits and the gods through these sacrifices all the time, or if I look at this particular person or for which doctor points a bone at me, oh, my gosh, I'm finished. So I'm submit under something. Under something. Thank you. That governs me, that affects me. It becomes real. So you could almost objectively go, well, it's real then. Wait a second. The doctrines you believe affect what you perceive.
12:15
Jhon
So let's look at another one. Cleaning your aura, you know, with sage crystals. So that's also perhaps could be linked to the superstition. Maybe this has got its own category and sometimes it can help. You can do feel better with certain things, but then again, but it can.
12:30
Hanka
Become very dysfunctional energy and time consuming because you have to carry so many things with you and always clean yourself and cleanse yourself. You went to the wrong corner in the shop and there and wrong man approached you, wrong woman approached you and like, oh, something is wrong with my aura, you know, and it's never ending. If we would think that we need to use some objects as well to protect ourselves. And thinking that we have the control and power in the spirit realm depending on these physical objects, that's also sad.
13:03
Joao
Reality, sadly, like spiritual OCD kind of. You can.
13:07
Hanka
Yeah, OCD. How do you call this?
13:09
Joao
Spiritual OCD?
13:10
Jhon
Yeah, OC I'm trying to bring circumflex and the sense of well being through this obsessive cleaning my aura, all these Yddev particular things. There's definitely a doctrine. And again, there's going to be overlays. You're coming out of the new age. You're going to have a whole mixture of these things, you know, when you're unconscious that you've absorbed that you still perhaps believe to some degree. So again, we're just making that aware. The next one is ascension via self effort. For me, this is kind of like the unifying doctrine or the kind of umbrella doctrine that a lot of other sub doctrines live underneath because the presupposition is you've got to do all the work. Now, there is a truth to this. You do have to take your self responsibility. You can't just lie in bed and, you know, think it's all going to happen.
13:51
Jhon
But then this doctrine takes it to the extremity where it's all about you burning off the karma, manifesting the right way fasting in a specific way, whatever it is. Insert yogic practices, all these psychic practices, developing all this. Why? Because you're going to ascend to the third dimension, fourth dimension, fifth dimension, six, 7th dimension where your vibrational state's so super, super high. That's a doctrine. Yeah, but behind it is what's driving it. Self, self, self. That's theme here with a lot of these so far. And we're going to transition to the doctrine of Jesus in a moment and how uniquely different it is and the effects of it. But here we're looking at self, another one we're talking about is projection, reflection. So you're talking about this.
14:33
Hanka
Yeah, what you see in others is in you with my experience of when I did my build up the coaching hours and there were, you know, women who got raped and tremendous times and it doesn't mean that what they see in others, you know, it's in them, you know, and they know some of the truths and it's.
14:51
Jhon
You mean the trigger, they don't. Yeah, they can trigger by it emotionally it doesn't mean that.
14:55
Hanka
Or something bad in someone else and they know about it but doesn't mean that it's in them.
15:01
Jhon
Yeah, but yet the irony is there is some truth to this and one of the sayings in this is the seer. The seeing and the seen are the same. The seer, the seeing and the seen, the same projection is reflection. So in essence the presupposition behind this doctrine is that you're meeting yourself everywhere you go, which is a form of solipsism that the self is the only thing that exists and that if I'm meeting you and I'm feeling something with you, well that's because it's in me. And the benefit of this is you take self responsibility, that's the benefit. That's the beauty of this, that you don't start victimizing and blaming others. You bring what we used to call in the coaching industry the locus of control back to you. So it's really useful and helpful. But is it absolute truth?
15:48
Hanka
Yeah, that is the thing but.
15:49
Jhon
But the thing I found with this is it's useful to a point, but when it becomes an absolute doctrine you are then imprisoned inside yourself, you are imprisoned within the self and wouldn't you.
16:00
Joao
Also limit others based on your own? So let's say you're going through something and then you constantly see the other person in the lens of what you're going through and then you're actually putting that on them.
16:10
Jhon
There's a loss of freedom actually, because if you're doing what you're saying, you're actually projecting and there's less of a freedom, there's more of an enmeshment and entanglement with each other, imprisoning the other.
16:20
Hanka
Person and the spirit kind as well, not willing to see who they truly are.
16:24
Jhon
So again, when we're going through these, there are some benefits to some of these doctrines. There surely is in some levels. The problem is they become absolutes. In this last case, you become a prisoner of your own self. So let's transition to why did your doctrines change when you guys met Jesus? So what changed for you? Why did you can relate to a lot of these previous doctrines, right? We believed a lot of these, but it shifted.
16:50
Hanka
Why once more the importance of all this experience and living duality so we can relate and understand and go further on what is right, what is true, what is really giving the fruits that Juan was speaking about. So when in my personal experience, when Jesus came into my life, some kind of veil came out of me, some kind of hypnosis that this kind of doctrines, yeah, because it seems like we became searching for the truth, but we became slaves of these doctrines somehow. So when we receive the Holy Spirit, when we have this divine experience and our spirit is aligned with the spirit of the living God, then the shift that comes in the beginning, he's so strong on giving us this aishtas, this perception, this ultimate thing that we are going to.
17:44
Hanka
He gives us this in the beginning so we can know that this is true. And this is difficult to put in words because only by experience we can really say this is true. And then he's so generous, he's so kind that he gives us this bliss in the beginning so we can go further on the path, on the process to achieve this that he's giving us. And by daily process and research and surrendering more into him, then we can go further on the taking out the layers of the mistakes of the lies, of the darkness. And so basically it's a transformation that gives us a permanent feeling of being free even during the path, even during the dark moments because it's so you.
18:33
Jhon
Got the humanity and then under there's this feeling of freedom as well.
18:37
Hanka
Exactly. And not only that, but also in terms of the deep transformation that really starts occurring in terms of some kind of anxieties or doubts or fears or whatever is really being melt and disappear for complete, even healing taking place in our body and whatever, love it. Yes, absolutely true. Absolutely.
19:00
Joao
Okay.
19:01
Jhon
So what I'm hearing to summarize for me is that there's a can of Jesus. You get this dose of something far beyond, and then over time, these false doctrines or bullet failures or different thinkings.
19:11
Hanka
They just melt away by revelation, transformation, understanding, growing in the spirit, maturation, etcetera. And knowing the scriptures, knowing who he is, knowing who I am in his own identity.
19:24
Jhon
Would you ever go back to the old dog?
19:26
Hanka
Are you kidding? Go there. But just to give some of his love to others. Not a choice for me too.
19:33
Jhon
It's interesting, though. It's like you tasted a food so delicious, you can't go back and eat impossible. You know, some cat food or something. Yeah, it's like that. No? Yep. How was it for you, Joelle?
19:42
Joao
I think when Marina was speaking, she said a key word, it's experience when you experience. And that was for me, what happened is that I experienced in my innermost being, or what we can call the spirit, a touch of Christ's light. The thing about these doctrines we're talking about is they exist on like, a more conceptual level. It's concepts, it's ideas, it's constructs. But when Christ touched me, he touched me at a profoundly deeper level. It's a place beyond words. But from that place that he touched me, then that touch flowed out into all parts of my being and gave me new thoughts, renewed my mind.
20:14
Jhon
When you say the other doctrines that come more conceptual, but you can actually manifest things. You can have Qi, energy. So there is a realness to it.
20:22
Joao
Yeah.
20:22
Jhon
And you did experience a lot of that.
20:24
Joao
I did experience.
20:24
Jhon
But you still call that by comparison to your experience with Jesus, just impotent.
20:30
Joao
Yes. But let me explain. Why put it really shortly is that when I first met Christ, I was on mushrooms one night meditating. Very deep. And my whole practice was to go into the depth of my being. And so I was going to this tunnel. Deep, deep. And I actually arrived at a door, like a block, and I knew that I could not access this. It's like, I don't know, you think of these high security military bases you just can't go through. I had that within me. And then Christ appeared, and he opened what was inside that place. And I knew that only he had the authority to open that innermost place. And when I accessed that place, I realized that everything else was just like an outer shell, even though before I thought it was the core.
21:12
Jhon
Deep, deep. I love it. Thank you.
21:14
Hanka
Also, if I can add, all these experiences are much more about our soul realm. About emotions, what we feel, what we think. Oh, this is so good.
21:24
Jhon
So it's feeling the doctrines you're talking about.
21:25
Hanka
Yes, the doctrines. And when we experience Christ, it comes into the spirit. And that is another level.
21:33
Jhon
Joao, you were telling me a scripture that links to what Mariana just said about Jesus, the father doctrine.
21:38
Joao
So Jesus is talking to the people and he's saying, the doctrines that I'm sharing with you, they're not my own, but they're from he who sent me. So he meaning the father in the.
21:48
Jhon
Eternal realm, in the high places, different frequency, at different far different dimensions. Yep. Yeah, I love it.
21:55
Joao
And then he would always criticize the people who had the doctrines of men. So he said, you have the doctrines of Mendez, but I have the heavenly doctrine.
22:02
Jhon
Yes. And then the Bible also talks about doctrines of devils as well. I'm certainly equated with a lot of those. Hunka, how was it for you when you met Jesus? Your doctrines changed like what was going on? I know there's a few of you guys have actually encountered Jesus on magic mushrooms. Now we're not advocating that, but Jesus comes wherever he comes and he does whatever he does. So we're not going to limit God. And that's just the reality. Jesus does appear to people in all kinds of places, dimensions and realms because he can, he's goddesse. So anyone thinking, hey, that can't happen, sit down, he can do what he wants. So hunk up.
22:37
Hanka
Well, this is a huge question. I just literally saw my whole life from the beginning until the end, all this time. I met Jesus when I was a little girl. And since the beginning I've been actually not allowed to go to church. And my mom was very strict about it. Over my dead body you go to church again. Things that started to take away my identity when I realized that who God is, when I met him when I was three years old. Since then I've always noticed that something starts to suppress me. Like the country, the systems in the country. I had to leave, I had to escape from it before I completely lose my identity. And when I was in Bali, I was searching for my identity. And that's when I met him.
23:17
Hanka
Through magic mushrooms, I really realized the freedom from everything, from the whole world, from the old systems, from all doctrines. I finally found him.
23:26
Jhon
Was it him or just a psychedelic experience? It was him, the being spirit. Because your doctrine has changed. I remember because I was aware of your experience at the time. And you immediately, instantly stopped believing in past lives, just instantly no one told you. No one convinced you. It's gone.
23:42
Hanka
It was gone without even questioning.
23:44
Jhon
And you're obsessed with them.
23:46
Hanka
I was so obsessed and I could not understand what happened with me. But I knew that's it. It is finished. And I could not even understand what that means. I did not even understand what means to ask forgiveness. For what am I asking forgiveness? But that was the journey for getting out of the toktrins, the start, the beginning of my journey, of the beginning of renewing my mind.
24:09
Jhon
So in him, through him, super deep. Super deep. I mean, look, there's a lot we can share about our transitions. You know, like, for me, I'll try to keep mine as simple as I can. It was a massive paradigm shift from self, the self acquiring knowledge, wisdom, esoteric knowledge, powers. I have to always get results from my clients. I had a whole range of clients, from elite athletes on the world stages to professional speakers, mystics, so forth. And so I had a whole plethora there. And so I'm always knowledge, wisdom, how to learn how to help people. Behind it all was this kind of infatuation with knowledge and self.
24:45
Jhon
At the end of the day, I didn't know that I was inside a bubble as, even though my bubble was pretty big and expansive and had a lot of capacity, it was a bubble of self to some degree. And then one day, Jesus popped the bubble in a very unique way, in a way that I did not see coming, humbled me completely. And I began to realize, my gosh, this Jesus is real. It's real. Now, my mind was hostile against this, I'll be honest, but my spirit couldn't argue. I understand authority. I understand real energy, power, real dominion of spiritual capacity was with Jesus. So when that started to happen, love, it's a love story. At the end of the day, I started to realize I'm actually in.
25:22
Jhon
I'm needing love from a spiritual being that has the capacity to deconstruct all the doctrines that I had been enmeshed within through a love so penetrating and a power so strong that it just completely unshackles me. Almost like the matrix unplugs me from that matrix of prolific amount of different doctrines. And all of a sudden now it's like, well, hang on a second. What's going on? It's like I'm literally like, I'm unplugged. And now what? I have to learn to walk again and think again inside his grace. And it's grace that sustains me just like oxygen. Each of us listening to this are breathing in oxygen unconsciously. That's grace just holding us up, giving us the ability to have life. And so I start to grow in grace, grow in love. And it's a completely different doctrine.
26:10
Jhon
It's a doctrine that actually dissolves the self into a union and oneness with him. As Jesus prayed, father, make them one with you as I am one with you. And he says, I am in you're in me. And there's this deep, beautiful union. And it's actually, it's happened inside my spirit and it's working itself out through my soul and my body into this dimension. And it's the singular biggest thing I can say was complete and prolific freedom from the self. Oh, my gosh. To be free from the self was the sweetest thing. The sweetest, sweetest thing. It doesn't mean I don't have a self. I have a sense of self. I like certain foods, I do certain things. But my goodness, that is to me, the doctrinal shift and the joy that comes from that is something else.
26:55
Jhon
So I believe that's kind of where it's all kind of going. We're all on this journey together. Those of you tuning in, you're here for a reason. You're attracted to this moment for a reason. And, you know, oneness and unity with God, with Jesus at the end of the day is a very sweet thing.
27:09
Joao
Hallelujah.
27:10
Jhon
Thanks, guys.
27:11
Hanka
Thank you.
27:14
Jhon
Thank you for joining us on supernatural breakthroughs. We trust that today's conversation ignited something within you. If you found this valuable, please subscribe. And we invite you to leave a review and share this episode with someone who you believe needs to hear it.