Positive Youth Sport Environment Episode 3: The Game Belongs to the Players

In this episode, Dr. Peter McGahey talks with Scott Snyder - the Senior Director of Sport Development for AYSO - American Youth Soccer Organization. Scott shares the importance of an athlete or child-centered approach to grassroots sports - the games belong to them. Scott discusses some of the challenges that the professionalization of grassroots youth sport poses and some strategies he’s implementing to positively focus this professionalism and lower barriers to access and participation.  

What is Time Out?

Time Out is a podcast focused on current issues in sport leadership, performance, and health with a wide range of experts and industry leaders. This podcast is offered by the School of Sport Sciences in West Virginia University’s College of Applied Human Sciences.

We've got so many great aspects of youth sport, but we certainly got some obstacles, especially in the soccer space, as most sports do. But I tend to go back to this need for organic, truly player centered environments, where the athlete or the child or the player is genuinely, and I say genuinely with strong emphasis, the most important aspect.

Not the club, not the team, the coach, the parent. We talk in our industry, as you know, let's give the game back to the players. You know, we need to consider the masses, but we're applying performance elite methodology and creating those environments for participation in social sport, and they don't match.

Welcome to Time Out with the School of Sport Sciences and the WVU College of Applied Human Sciences. My name is Dr. Peter McGahee and I'm pleased to be our host today. I'm joined today by Scott Snyder. Scott is the Senior Director of Sport Development for the American Youth Soccer Organization, otherwise known as AYSO.

I'm looking forward to our conversation today centered around creating a positive youth sport environment. Welcome, Scott. Let's go. All right, Scott. So welcome to our podcast. We really appreciate you joining us today. Thanks for having us, Peter. It's good to see you. So for everyone's welcome, as I said before, Scott is the Senior Director of Sport Development for AYSO, the American Youth Soccer Organization.

Scott, can you share with our audience a little bit what you do for AYSO? Sure. So we have approximately 70, 000 coaches and about 400, 000 players across the country. And we provide content, curriculum, education for all of our membership. And I'm in charge of that process. We all, in addition to coaches, we have a referee program and a management program for administration.

So it's very heavily based on training and education support for What is primarily a volunteer membership? So we're at the, uh, one end of the spectrum of kind of coaching because it's all parent coaches for the most part. So a different audience, but in a different approach, but we make sure we're very thorough in our methodology and our support so that it's current and applicable, uh, for specifically a parent coach.

Now we have. Other coaches in the organization, but it's predominantly parent coach led. Yeah, that's great. And again, it hits right with our topic here today about creating that positive youth sport environment within this, within this grassroots context. So Scott, can you share a little bit about how did you fall in love with soccer?

Maybe being poor helped. Um, not as poor, just we didn't have a lot of cash at the time, but, uh, growing up in Scotland, you know, soccer was really the, not the only option, Peter, but it was the most affordable option for the masses. Uh, we had other sports, but they tended to be quite expensive. So thinking about today's climate with exclusivity and, uh, and barrier to entry, tennis was expensive.

Golf was expensive. Um, Rugby was available, but being a few inches taller than a Hobbit, it wasn't really the sport for me. Uh, so, Stalker became the natural fit, as it did for, for most of the population. The beauty of it for me, in terms of falling in love with it, was the, the freedom and the independence that, that I had.

Because all I needed was, where we lived in the street, there was a wall in front of my house. There was, that was a play area. There was a park at the end of the street. That became a more formal play area. But it was that type of, uh, one on one freedom, independence that really, uh, kind of created this love and passion for the relationship with the ball.

I almost absorbed the sphere shaped object, so it became really interesting, but that's how I developed a love for the sport overall. I love that. And again, it's just a place about sometimes just the, the player in their backyard with their, with their sport, bouncing the ball, kicking the ball, hitting the ball, throwing the ball up to themselves.

We, we certainly forget the, the, the love starts early and this love of soccer took you on quite a journey, didn't it? It did. Yeah. I mean, I, I was very blessed to have a, a, a, a kind of long career, both in the, in the UK, uh, and the U S. Um, all founded on that kind of relationship with the ball and the love for independence and freedom and creativity.

Um, which sometimes as a young professional, that's not quite, uh, what they're looking for. And that changed my perspective a little bit, but certainly was, was very fortunate in, in the career that I was given by playing. That's fantastic. Do you have like in those formative years, do you have a memorable coach or a story that really influenced you when you were in that in the grassroots pathway as a youngster?

So interestingly enough, I don't recall having a formal team coach environment until probably 11 or 12.

In terms of formal play. There was teams and I played on teams, but I don't recall it being formally run or led by a coach. The memories that I have in those days really involved that street play and playing in the pickup games at the local park, which really became a life of its own. We had kids from all over every neighborhood in the town, and it would end up being this very, very.

Organic, player centered, player led. We played on a, a, a hockey field, field hockey. So it was small sided games with small numbers before there was small sided games. Older players, younger players, skilled, non skilled. Uh, it just became this colorful animated environment for, for play that, it's strange, Peter, that to this day, I'll occasionally Google Earth that park just to rekindle the memory.

Because it was so, it was so vibrant, um, and really thinking about the development part of that and what it was, you know, it's okay to have fun and enjoy it, which is fundamental, but the idea of was I learning the things you learn by playing with older and different skilled players and that diversity and the talent is huge.

We don't, you know, we immediately start separating everybody here, um, which could be a different topic altogether. Learning from older players and larger players and having to develop skill and balance to avoid it. And other, you know, again, being smaller in stature. At the time it was, uh, it, it, I learned so much and that type of play stayed with me throughout my whole career.

It wasn't as if I, I adapted and I became this other type of player. The type of player that I was, I developed in this, in the park, in pickup games was the same player I was when I finished the. So it works if you just allow it to be as organic and free and I, and again, I hope that everybody can hear the, the, the enjoyment and the thrill that is, that is in your voice about the freedom that you had that you got to have experimenting and playing and growing and growing with the game.

I think of the challenges we face today. And we've got so many great aspects of youth sport, but we certainly got some obstacles, especially in the soccer space, as most sports do. But I tend to go back to this need for organic, truly player centered environments. Where the, the athlete or the child or the player is genuinely, and I say genuinely with strong emphasis, the most important aspect, not the club, uh, not the team, the coach, the parent.

It's the child. We, we, we, we talk in our industry, as you know, let's give the game back to the players. Well, we don't, and we haven't, we've literally taken it away from them and it's our game and they're just. Participants in the game. Um, so it's, I think in order for us to really start to hit some of the, the, the, the, the targets and the, and the potential that we have, we need to rethink the environments that we're asking players to play in or from my developmental stage and cultural.

So Scott, I wanna hone in on this idea about player centered giving the game. To the players, right? Like this youth sport environment being about and for the players. I'm sure we're going to cover a little bit about sort of how it's moved away from it. How do we, how do we move back towards it? Or for you and for a Y.

So how, how does that vision of being player centered manifest? Well, that's, it's, well, not just in AY, so I, I think I personally through my experience in the industry and considering some of the data points that we have to look at in terms of participation, or are we adding players that we lose, you know, regardless of where you, you, you, you know, you take your data from, there's been a steady decline in participation.

So something's not quite right. And we can argue and debate what that might be. We might have opinions. But I think one of the main threads that would be consistent is that we have, especially, probably more so in youth soccer than any other sports, really professionalized. The whole business and I use business carefully because it is very much a business and the idea of what is appropriate developmentally and culturally for a child to play in is now mismatched, I'm working on a whole process of and my of kind of simplifying.

and trying to reclaim the game a little bit for the players. And I just think how complicated everything has become over coaching, over organizing, you know, over training, uh, why behind all of that isn't just professionalization. It can be the popularity and coach education, which has flourished in the past 15 years, which has created great opportunities.

But there's other sides to every, every benefit really. So I think we need to be careful that we don't cross that line and I feel we're quite close to that of really forgetting what who the game is for. Um, the type of players that we're creating, the type of players that we're, we're expecting to play.

Um, the, I, I, I think the, one of the cornerstones to the, 2011 zone one rollout for six through 12, I believe it was that called your arena champion was development over winning, and that's a term that's often misused. I don't think it's really. I think it's got to the point where the quest for winning, which is a positive aspect.

If it's done properly is actually devouring development. I think it's gotten to that point where the winning aspect is really hindering Development and winnings connected to, uh, the club, you know, the super club model that the need for registrations to fuel the business again. It's a different.

It's because even in the past five years, um, pre covid, it's really starting to show. It's the kind of concerns with that idea. Yeah. So Scott, the answer about like the idea about winning and the devouring is a very powerful reference with that. And I want to talk a little bit about, you said a couple of things that I want to come back and revisit this idea about professionalization and Mitch mismatched.

But I do want to hone into this idea about winning. And I really want to go back to the Scott playing in the street, playing in the spark park as a youngster, because I think there's a place of where society as a whole has The idea about winning isn't winning is something, but it doesn't have to be everything like so for those for youngsters when they're playing, talk about where this where this mismatch of winning has gone in our culture in the place of where it's gone from sort of what the kids want to do well to how it sort of has become again the mainstream of winning.

Yeah, let me clarify my position on that. It's organizational and personal. Everybody plays to, we should play to win. It's the purpose of the competitive environment and that should be encouraged. What I'm trying to emphasize is the method behind that is relevant. And how do we obtain the victory? Is it by design or is it by luck?

Is it by only playing the best strongest players? In which case, three, four, five players don't get to play at all, which is common practice. Doesn't matter what people say, that's common practice. One of the reasons that I joined AYXL when I did was the philosophy of 50% playing time. Every level, every field, even our new club program, which is Going very, very well.

He was so United, uh, who are completely us club. They, they compete in most during the, the, the, uh, the leap 64 for us. Why 50% playing time for every player in the club. Love it. Now what's the other side of that Peter is. Could that result in potentially losing the cup final? Yeah, it could. And that's the arrangement that we make in order for that, the other group of players to actually get the chance.

There's no development taking place if you're not playing. That's a place I think that sometimes is lost, you know, lost at times on folks is, can you speak about that? How important at the grassroots and youth level, the concept of playing time is, because we are the grassroots coaches, the novice coaches, they watch professional sports, they see how playing time works.

And then we bring those things back into the youth context. Can you share about how important playing time is? Yeah. Well, you you're touching upon what I think is a really is part of the issue that we're referring to. What's the real? What's happening? Why? Why do we have issues right now within the game?

And we talked about professionalization, but the mismatch of expectations and environments to younger levels based on whether they've seen it, the pros or a club level is part of the issue because it's not conducive to a healthy environment. Um, I think the idea of I think at minimum Okay, Or what organizations are charging to play.

You should at least get 50% playing time at a minimum. We try and get three quarters play, but sometimes it doesn't work out depending on the size of the roster. But I think there's a place for that. Our kind of agreement within our model at the club level, which is tryout based, all our program is open registration.

The idea behind it is that don't recruit the player. Through tryouts, if you don't feel they can play it, right, it's not, but we're not, we're not, we're not motive or reason for putting a club program together wasn't revenue. It was to create the opportunity for players to continue to play at a higher, at a more competitive level and in an external gaming circuit, which is what they do.

But the idea is don't put, don't, don't recruit the player to take the. Space if you don't feel you can put them on at a specific, specific time. So I think at the minimum level of sports arrangement, a player and athlete should get the opportunity to play. And we get, we hear, you know, it's where we, a lot of our players come from that environment where they just didn't get to play.

Um, and I, I don't think it's a fair exchange. Now, once you get to a certain level, I'm talking about starting to identify Peter, the, the differences in. In environments from a participation in social environment, which is what I'm talking about here and what I would generally term grassroots for performance elite pathway, you know, which is different.

And the approach to it can be similar, but there can be some nuances are different. I live within the participation in social model, which in its own way here has been looked down upon. You know, I want, I carefully didn't say the word wreck, which has become a negative connotation. I think what we need now is wreck.

Coming out of COVID, the benefits I think were highlighted for just participation in social play and the strengths of that arguably would outweigh it. The numbers related to an elite part of the, of the pyramid, you know, we need to consider the masses, but we're applying performance elite methodology and creating those environments for participation in social sport, and they don't match.

There's a reason we burn out losing participation numbers over use injuries is because we're applying a philosophy and methodology to an environment that is. Much more organic and needs less, less is more. So we're just trying to re balance the equation a little bit and try and make sure that the environment that we offer for, you know, that grassroots participation social player that just wants to be with their buddies and play, is appropriate.

It's not complicated, Peter. It's just that's... a commitment you are trying to make. We're just an organization that's based on that. And Scott, I think the challenge that sometimes is, is that folks feel like that community based program, the social program that you mentioned somehow has less inherent value than the tryout team or those things, as opposed to recognize that everyone comes as a grassroots player.

Everyone begins there. Everyone begins their sports career within the grassroots. You mentioned this concept of playing time. What's the connection between playing time? And development and fun for the grassroots, for the grassroots player. Why is that such a paramount, paramount? Well, if you consider the rationale for playing as participation, right?

I want to participate. I want to be out there then being physically on the field, not just in a practice environment, but physically participating during the competitive event. Is a cornerstone and we're just seeing too many kids that are just not getting to play at all because we they come to us. So there's a fundamental mismatch and what I think parents should be aware of and look for today based on the needs of the child.

I'm not saying that education or development can't take place if you're sitting on the bench, if it's, if you're analyzing and you're getting good guided questions from your coach and it's interactive and I get that you can do that, but for the majority of the 12 players that are sitting on the bench, they're not getting anything from it.

So I just think we need to provide a fairer and more reasonable exchange for our families today, especially considering what. The pain, correct, and it's becoming quite significant in terms of cost and the cost and the cost expense that's there, I think, is quite challenging with. You're talking about like a novice coach because you talked about before that again in this grassroots environment, novice coaches are predominantly the coaching workforce when they get into this place.

When they go out and they're going to coach their, their teams, and they're going to work with their folks in these community programs, what are some of the biggest challenges that these novice coaches have? Nowadays, Peter, I think it's, and again, it's similar to what you were saying earlier, but I think it's keeping the game in perspective.

Keeping the methodology and the expectations and perspective for what it is, once you start the coaching journey, it's easy to mismatch your approach to the true needs of the children or the environment you're coaching in because you, we have this natural alignment to what's on TV, whether it's a professional game or what the paid coaches are doing with their club teams, because that's obviously quite prominent in a community, um, which is often mismatched to the players needs Anyway, in order to justify revenue and salaries.

So it's really just trying to stay within the genuine parameters of their environment. And if it is a grassroots participation, social recreational model. Fun is the most important thing. Are they enjoying it? Have we made it fun? Have they felt inspired to continue to play? The goals now for young, even with wire, so the goals have kind of are starting to change, uh, in what we really want to do here.

This idea of making Soccer, the preeminent sport, it's a bold statement, and we'll do our best to make that happen. We really just want to keep kids in the game now. This isn't, because what we're noticing in an industry space, youth soccer players aren't Leaving the participation pyramid and going to the level below or just playing record co ed there.

They're leaving the Elvis has left the building and they're not coming back in the difference. They're just staying within the numbers and just moving different levels. Whatever experience they've had has caused for the most part and generalizing here has often caused them to leave the sport completely, which isn't helping anybody.

So something's a mismatch somewhere in that space. So keeping things. Genuinely, you know, age and developmentally appropriate for the players you're working with is the biggest challenge. And you had mentioned this idea about less is more before, you've spoken to this idea about the needs of the grassroots player.

What are, like, from your perspective, what are some of those critical ingredients? Of the grass of the grassroots environment. So this is changing. Uh, covert as well. Uh, coveted is terrible. It was became a really interesting catalyst for changing perspective and thought leadership. And we certainly went through a lot of that and.

The work that we did with the Aspen Institute and a variety of other organizations, but so we can, we can, uh, went from being a youth soccer organization to a youth sports environment experience and really know that that approach has led us to actually rewriting most of our material from three through eight to.

Really develop to be to become a lot more holistic in its value to a parent or a player. So all of the material now is going to be from 3 through 8. This is predominantly Peter, which is large percent of our population player population is going to be very heavily. FMS based fundamental motor skill development and now social emotional learning activities throughout because.

The opportunity to. improve players only, um, is just limited. The opportunities to help children is much more, um, potentially beneficial for, for, for families and what they're, what they're getting from a youth sports experience. So we also, we didn't just come up with this. This was part of some research that we were doing.

We're noticing that we, especially with the younger players, that the lack of FMS development coming from the lack of free play was becoming a significant barrier to technical development. And without that lens, we were starting to find people were looking at players, or players were experiencing things, and we were considering lack of technical ability, when really it was lack of physical literacy, because they had missed the FMS development window.

Which is a completely di and I just started to we started to panic a little bit, thinking, How many players have we lost? Because they felt discouraged, or coaches have felt discouraged because they couldn't help develop a child based on technical or soccer aspects when it was all FMS. Scott, when you say FMS, just so that I can hear and the listeners can hear the idea.

Fundamental movement skills. Motor skills. Fundamental motor skills. Okay, I appreciate, I appreciate that clarification. Balancing, balancing. Running walk all of the things Peter that we all develop naturally for the most part through outdoor free play. And again, I'm generalizing here isn't as prevalent today as it was 20 years ago.

Lack of physical education in schools. There's so many different aspects that's contributed to this, and it's not the, you know, the end all and be all to fixing the game, but in terms of what we feel we've got an obligation to introduce and make sure there's awareness to, it's one of the two major components that have been social and emotional learning.

And I know, you know, the simple example is there's a hierarchy to FMS development. Thank you. You know, that's why we get the, you've got to walk before you can run. I appreciate that. Yeah. You need, you need to go to balance on one leg before you can strike a soccer ball. Correct. You don't have the core strength to do those things, Peter, or you're off balance.

What is that going to look like technically as they get, as you progress and the other, the, the, the, again, the research that we did in this, there's a small, relatively small window to develop this. And if you miss it, it's very hard to regain it later in life. And I'm a perfect example of that, growing up in Scotland, ball at my feet, great eye foot coordination, did nothing with my hands in terms of sporting, tennis, golf, basketball, hockey, none of that.

Everything was eye foot. I have zero eye hand coordination. And I'm, I can't throw. So thank the Lord, I had two daughters and I didn't, they didn't play baseball, but I'm this guy. I can't, I can't throw. Um, you know, if, if we were prepped, if we were together and this was going well and we want, you wanted a high five on the way out, 50% chance of getting punched in the face.

Hey, I, I appreciate, I appreciate that we're doing this, doing this virtually, Scott, because that's hard, and I will also say that I'm safe from your golf game, apparently, that we'll have to, we'll have to, look to get out there with the golf. So with this idea about fundamental moral skills and some of this social, emotional learning.

Yep. How does, how did the grassroots coaches then bring those concepts? Like how do they, how does, how do those concepts show up in their practice? So it takes a commitment and it takes a commitment from the organization to, to maintain educational integrity. Because it's not easy, Peter, when we did the research to what a three and four year old program should look like, we went to child psychologists, child development specialists, curriculum, everything came back the same.

Beanbags, hula hoops, parachutes, lily pads. No sport, no soccer ball, but we're kind of soccer organization. This is what we do. Um, but that was the, when that was what we get told, the easy thing to do would be to have created curriculum based on the cutest soccer game in the world, which is out there.

There's a lot of organizations making a lot of money doing this. The cutest soccer games in the world, right? Just let them play. 3v3 Thunderdome for Hobbits, right? I mean, it's just, it's cute. And it sells. Consider the fundamental motor skill aspect, you're developing one coordinated piece, which is eye/foot coordination.

It's limiting. So it actually is, is, is contradictory. So what we did is when we developed the program, we wrote curriculum based on FMS. They're all, they've all got, you know, they've all got an FMS theme to it. So three activities, one is FMS, one is a game like, and then there's a bit of a soccer game at the end.

And it progresses up through eight, through eight years. Um, so. Our coaches who we train, and we've still one of the only programs in America that that requires coach certification, it's all based on providing the foundation to FMS, the foundation to SEL and a full season of detailed curriculum. And lesson plans.

Um, so that's how we do it. And all of our training is related to that. Um, and now when we're getting back into this and adding SEL, we've done the same thing. We've laid the foundation and where we talk more about that. educational aspect than the X's and O's. It's easier, Peter, for a parent to understand that than worry about the technical aspects of a side foot pass.

That's all in there as well, but it's prioritized in our curriculum. And our curriculum, by the way, has been accredited by the United States Center for Coaching Excellence. One of the only soccer organizations that's had that done three times now. Again, if you do the right thing for what's best for that child at the right age.

It will work, but it might not be as socially, you know, marketable if you like. Um, so it's a balance, but we're committed to making sure that we provide a more holistic experience through our youth soccer program. And Scott, with the idea about the U. C. C. U. S. C. C. E. And the right age and right stage again, that there's such, there's so much power in that with this idea about coaching at the right age and right stage.

How do you see this impact the long term participation, participation in sport and then the long term development of these youngsters as. Human beings. Yeah. Yeah. Well, again, it's not overly complex. There's a lot of people will try and certainly make it complicated. But if we can, we can keep the players children playing the game.

Here's the kind of the vision that we have if we can keep them. In the environment that's appropriate for them, which hopefully we make them stay in that environment through the age of eight and develop them into kids who are really like soccer. It's cool where they go on to from that point is gravy.

It doesn't. We're excited if they progress to wherever they progress, but the new goal is to keep them participating. But the more we start to apply. High level, four nights a week, traveling here and, you know, all over the state in order to play, because that's what's being presented as the way forward. Um, they're not, again, burnout, overuse, injuries, people leaving the sport is not coincidence.

There's a reason for that. So it's genuinely a commitment to try and provide the right environment for the age. We'll keep Children playing if it's not fun, Peter, or it's too much for them or too much for the family. They just won't do it. Another thing that, you know, the pandemic kind of put on as a priority is the amount of money we're spending on youth sports and what it should provide and BMWs, you know, level payments for youth soccer is a lot to ask today.

So a more realistic exchange will keep more players participating. And at that age of 8 or 10 or whatever it is, whenever they decide to make that next stage to whatever environment they feel, there'll be more to play, more to pick from. I mean, if you look at it as a filter going all the way up to the top of the apex, and the amount of resources we spend up there versus down here at the grassroots base, it's flipped.

The more we have at the base, the more we'll filter up and the more we'll get to develop. Um, but we're concerned that, that, you know, the base isn't getting the appropriate attention that it deserves at this time in order to have more players to filter through the system. I want all, everybody to go, go pro, go, go the whole way, get the scholars, college scholarship.

But it's a numbers game. And what we're seeing is that if it's not the, if it's not a, an appropriate environment and it's mismatched from whatever reason, They're not going to stay in it. It doesn't, it's not complicated. I think Scott, the challenge that I would say about this mismatch that we have with the, the mismatch that we have with the youth as it relates to some of the structural components of higher level sport.

Can you speak to this idea about early selection, talent identification, The rush that the coaches and parents feel within the youth sport context that impact this, this player centered environment. And again, having someone that's come through that system, I'm all for it. And I believe in elite youth sport development.

I want players to progress through it. But. Again, I'll reiterate the, the, and it could come from, it can be, there's a new element of concern, which is, and we have it all over in different pockets, different, but some of them organizational and this, uh, nationwide. But this kind of super club domination of the grassroots is becoming.

Part of the challenge. Um, the need, the need from a business standpoint, Peter, to recruit younger and younger players and their parents, of course, and I don't even know if it's a matter of convincing them, but presenting them with more training, more time commitment. More uniforms, more warmups, more bumper stickers is best for their child, you know, which may be true for a select few, but the majority should just be left to play in a fun and be able to fall in love with the sport.

Um, so we've got a few challenges that I think if we, if we rebalance.

Those players that are going to progress into that elite talent ID will, there'll be fewer of them. And the other thing that I would argue having, again, coming up through this from a player standpoint is those, that talent. We'll find a way, Peter. We don't need to have 25 different acronym leagues to find 10.

Those players are going to come through because they're good. Um, can they get better through development and training? Yeah, of course, but more than likely they're naturally talented and we'll find a way. I think the upper part of the kind of competitive play apex, we can't deny that there's a lot of revenue related to it.

There's a lot of revenue, so I would just like it to be, have a little bit more of a conscious and separation, and certainly do what's needed at the higher levels to progress the players, but be careful when we come into the... The kind of lower age groups and what we apply, and I'm again, Peter, please forgive me.

I'm general. There's some wonderful organizations doing the right thing all the time, but there's some that does a percentage aren't and it's not helping. And my role now is really to try and help increase the player population at the grassroots level, whether it's with a YS over essay, why are you triple essay or, you know, whoever it might be when they misapply these.

Adult, like the concepts of early talent identification, rushing the kids to tryouts, making superstar teams. What's the, what's the, what's the impact with that for the grassroots player? Too much, too soon, too much time commitment, too much money. We saw advertised recently here, Peter, in California, you, uh, tryouts for U6 Elite Academy.

Tryout based U6 elite academy by a club that will go nameless. So the, the, what's going to happen, some parents will pay the money to participate and be selected. Um, but the percentage of people will be turned away by it. They'll, they'll put the, uh, the players, they'll be training too much. The demand will be too much.

The, the, the, the fees that will be, you know, significant to And we'll just, we will get the players today, Peter. Maybe for a short time and we'll lose them tomorrow. That's the kind of the nuts and bolts of it. So, you know, again, we'll, if any of the, in the, in, in our industry, anywhere in the world could tell me that a six year player is going to make it to the pros and should be put into a higher level of training, then I'd love to sit and chat with them.

I would, I would love to be that kind of a fortune teller and magician myself, myself, my friend. Absolutely. So the idea about, again, the idea about as many as possible, as long as possible in the best environment possible. So for you, this idea, and again, with, with AYSO, some of the programs and some of the elements of the organization that you all are rewriting.

Again, I've seen some of those things and they're really, really powerful because they're centered on, they're, they're yeah. Bringing this back to be a player centered environment. Can you speak to some of the things that again, a YSO is looking to implement as best practice for a player centered environment?

Yeah. So again, the idea of, of keeping the players play not, not overly complicated again. Keeping the younger players in the most age and developmentally appropriate playing environments as possible is the commitment and having that discipline to make sure that that environment is correct. Um, again, I mentioned it earlier, this, it sounds easy to really prioritize Cornerstones as FMS.

Yeah, it sounds it's actually not. It's, it's, it's complex to do it in a simple way that is applicable by a parent coach or a young coach, however it might be. But that's where our priorities lie right now. Again, we're started to narrow the current focus. We've got an accredited program that's going fine.

The new focus is, and again, you could argue, why would you go back into a program that's already accredited and rewrite material? Well, it's because of the recent learnings and to try and keep players in the game. This three through eight age group, um, is really, it's the commitment to Making it more holistic, trying to add more value to today's parent due to what's happened in the past number of years, um, and to make it more valuable, you have to make it more holistic.

And to do that, we talk about developing the whole child in the sport, Peter. Most groups do. I don't see much of that actually taking place. So we're really committed. And, and one of the things that drew our attention to this is we had presented the concept of integrating SEL, social emotional learning skills, into our curriculum to the Aspen Institute, who were pretty excited by that idea and again said, well, it's, it's quite an undertaking, but we have a lot of material and you'd be willing to share it if you're willing to do the work and put it in.

And because of that commitment, among a few other aspects, they recognized AYSO as a project play champion, right? And because of that, they also provided us a lot of insight to the educators for SEL and, and we took a lot of that material, modified it, did more research, and then integrated it in a way that's.

Use a friendly and simple for that age group and for our parent coaches. So we've laid it out on a, on a really simple template for people to integrate. And again, it's very, very easy to do once you have a little bit of the foundation, which we've provided. Scott, this is fantastic. I think I'm sure you you've piqued my interest.

I'm sure you've piqued our audience interest. Can you summarize what is social emotional learning? Where is, what is that? What does that look like? So we're looking at cognitive lessons, social and interpersonal, right? And really in simple terms, Peter, we're starting to integrate and recognize life skills throughout the practice.

And they're, they're there, but we just, as coaches, we don't naturally focus on them. But when you take the, the, the, the kind of lenses off a little bit or open the shutters, they, they, they're blatant, they, they shout out at us, and it's very, very easy, whether it's leadership, friendship, appreciation, um, goal setting.

If we actually just start to recognize the things that sport naturally presents, It becomes a much more educationally rich environment, so there's a lot more learning can take place, um, and it's staggered, it's a hierarchy, so the 3 to 4 year olds get introduced to X, and then the 5 and 6, and then the 7 and 8, and it's a progressive program, but, uh, you know, self management, self awareness, all of the things that we'd like to put, have our children do, you know.

We tend to think it happens naturally through sport, and sometimes it does. We've just been a lot more intentional with highlighting this opportunity, and so, and, and, and also sharing that with the parents, because the beauty of the ultimate transition of social emotional learning is having the lesson then.

be applicable with the child in another environment, whether that's home or school. So it's, it's not just that we do it in practice and then it's, it's over. They then apply that. So one of the guided questions, for example, in, um, helping others would be how, you know, Peter, how do you give me an example, give me an example of, uh, how we help at home?

Well, I, I help with the dishes. Great, you know, what other examples? So again, being in taking time out with the practice to actually add these elements in like coaching points, though, in the new in the new process, for example, Peter, in the past, we had, you know, the curriculum set with lesson plans with coaching points in there for the soccer.

Yes, those, those soccer, those coaching points have been replaced by Guided questions and development for SEL. That's the, that's the difference in the commitment of what we're trying to do now. So soccer's still there. It's the golden thread through all of it. We're just using soccer to be a lot more impactful in its reach.

And moving beyond the X's and O's and focusing on the human beings that are in front of you because their sports career, Scott. Are going to last whatever they last again. I use the analogy. The sun is going to shine on their sports career for however long it shines, but they're going to be human beings for a lifetime.

Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, it's, it's something that again, every organization I've. I speak with talks about the child and developing the person, but then when you say, okay, well, how are you actually, how are you doing that? There isn't much application. It's a nice theory, but I think if we actually had more applicable efforts.

The environment that we create for the children to participate in would be much richer. And again if I'm getting more from it, Peter, I'm happier. My mom's happier. So, I'm staying with this because it's pretty cool. And that's what we're trying to do is just add some different dimensions to it. Not random.

These are elements that are, I feel, very valuable. In particular, you know, the FMS is equally as invaluable today. Um, but the influx of technology and other aspects to social change has, you know, we've got different things that we need to address nowadays. We're just trying to do that within our youth soccer space.

And I admire very much about AYSO taking on such of these holistic and developmental places. Within the grassroots context, we would be remiss. And again, you've mentioned it a couple of times. Parents. Where, how do we as coaches and as organizations build this part again, you, you've mentioned it several times, but build this partnership and collaboration with, with the parents and caregivers of our players.

We will, it's, it's, it's kind of natural for a while. So, because we base their whole organization on. Parental involvement and volunteerism. Again, you may not plan a business on that today, but it's, it's our wheelhouse. And I think when I look outside of the, our space, and we think about the parental piece, it's, and you think of the numbers involved in it and their influence, Peter, I start to think of the words underutilized and undervalued, to a certain extent, under respected.

Um, you know, because they're volunteer parent coaches, but what we found with appropriate support training resources, you know, timely resources and creative resources, because time is a factor that very often, um, the parental knowledge. And care and rapport with Children is, you know, equal to or so often better than many of the professional coaches that we work with.

Um, so I think we need to start to be a little bit more customized in our, in our delivery. And our involvement of parents from education to engagement, um, but we, I think it's the one of the, and I'm concerned because I certainly know within the industry and I'm talking generally here that, you know, it's.

That's not the way to go. It's, we got to, if you want a really good youth experience, you got to have professional coaches. And that's an argument some people could make. I just don't agree with it. Um, I think there's a place for professional coaches for sure. Um, but just because you're a professional coach doesn't mean to say that you're better than a volunteer, well trained, passionate.

Volunteer parent coach. So, I think the parent aspect is huge. Um, and I think the, the need for, for realistic engagement, um, is vital. And I think if you start to talk beyond the X's and O's, we'll get a lot more parents genuinely engaged and interested and ideally involved, which I think is a healthy need, um, to compliment the professional ranks.

And I say compliment because there's a space for both. Absolutely. And I think it's got within the professional ranks. We cannot confuse being a professional and having professionalism and being and being and being where you're appropriate and your ethics and your communication are have professional qualities.

And that can be a volunteer coach. That can be a paid coach. Yeah, I don't think that that's just unique because somebody writes me a check again. Somebody who volunteers their time can certainly have some of those behaviors. The piece I think with the parents that you really speak to is this idea about timely quality education.

How do you how do you support that? How do you support that parental development within your organization? So we have I have to share with you offline some of the quantity of CEUs and certification classes that are available to AYSO volunteer parents or coaches. You don't have to be a coach, you can access this material.

But we went from kind of lengthy certification processes in person to blended to, you know, uh, Really creative, innovative ways to deliver material and we're doing it today. I was working on it before I came here. Different software programs that allow for more really user friendly mobile access, not to compromise the educational quality to it, but just make it more convenient vignettes versus, you know.

To our videos are to our presentations. Uh, we've put a lot of commitment and energy into training and, um, certification of our of our volunteers. And we've probably got like, we'll run local. Workshops throughout the country now Peter from January through the summer. Each section that we have will have one of these work.

They call them expose the library for the sections to pick from that. We just created has got 140. different workshops they can choose from and make up an agenda for themselves. And these are written from all over the place. I mean, we have Chicago Fire produced material, Kerlin Jobe Institute, all bite sized packets of content and also available delivered in person that speaks to today's parents needs.

So, I mean, it's not, It's not randomly put together. It's very carefully curated, but you've got to be constant and innovative and make sure everything's current, but we have a very extensive library of content that's available to both in person and online. That's fantastic. Again, getting education, getting these wonderful messages out to into the communities to build these community programs is incredibly powerful.

If somebody in the audience was interested in finding you or finding some of this information from a Y. So where would they find it? What's the best? What's the best avenues? The general web page. It leads to everywhere, including myself. We're all on there. It's www dot a y s o dot org. Um, and then from there, you can link over to the volunteer site where you get access to all the materials, but that would give someone a good starting point.

Peter, that's fantastic. We'll certainly reference some of that in the, in the show notes. And again, we've touched on many topics. Scott, I know that we're going to have to have you back on this podcast at another time to continue our conversation. But I wanted to give you, I have 1 last final question for you.

Budget is no object. And you can place a billboard or a sign on fields all across the country for players, parents, coaches to see what would your, what would your message be? No budget, just being Scottish there. Um, I appreciate that. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that's, that's pretty clear to me that it would be let them play.

I appreciate that. Let them play. I think if we could all just step back and let the kids play more, so let them play. There you go. And we will, and we will, we will end on that. Scott Snyder, thank you very much for joining this, and we will all work to let them play. Thank you, Peter. Catch up with you. I appreciate it.

Thank you.