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The Smoke Trail, hosted by Smoke Wallin, is a journey into awakening consciousness, weaving authentic stories and deep discussions with inspiring guests to unlock high performance and perfect health. Each episode delves into spirituality, leadership, and transformation, offering tools to transcend trauma and find your bliss along the way. It’s a reflective space for achieving peak potential and inner peace in a distraction-filled world.
Welcome to the Smoke Trail hosted by Smoke Wallin. Join Smoke on a unique journey of awakening consciousness, sharing authentic stories and deep discussions with inspiring guests. Explore spirituality, leadership, and transformation, tools to elevate your path.
Smoke:Well, is a good way to start because by the way, laughter, we have to remember to not take ourselves too seriously, Justin.
Justin:Well, not only laughter, but I was somebody posted somewhere on social media about what crying actually does in such a great way. It's really good for the body to cry.
Smoke:Okay, we'll see if we can get there in this discussion, but I'm happy to start with laughter.
Justin:Great, fine, great.
Smoke:All right, well, because you're a quick start like I am. Yeah. And we we and and so just for the record, we had zero conversation before I start recording here. And but what I what I like to do so with some guests, I they like to talk a little before and get comfortable with things. And with Justin, I know that that will just dissipate his energy.
Smoke:My strategy here is do not waste any time on preliminary stuff, just let's get into it. But I always like to state the intention of what I'm doing here and what we're doing here. I'll let Justin speak for himself, but you know, my intention with the Smoke Trail is simply this. I have been on my own journey. I'm calling it, dubbing it the Smoke Trail because I did.
Smoke:Along the way, have learned so many different things from so many people, from so many great sources, texts, things, and most importantly, by my own direct experience. And in so doing, I have picked up things that would have helped me along the way had it been organized or been presented in a little different way than what's out there. So my intention is simply to share what I'm learning along the way, invite people who are on their own paths to share things that I think can be also useful to people and people can take what they take out of it. And you know, if you're watching this, you're here, you're on your own path and there's a reason you're listening. So I assume it's a self selecting audience who are interested in enlightenment, what an awakening, what a spiritual path of some sort means in the modern era combined with what does it mean if you're in a leadership position, if you're in a position where you influence others just by where you are, what you do.
Smoke:And what I see is this convergence that the challenge of our era, Justin, in my view, is not to become enlightened and awakened and then go off on a mountain like the one behind me, although it's very attractive and not talk to anybody again. How do we integrate that with our day to day lives? And then if we're in a position where our path has led us to leadership and to influence others, like how do we integrate what we're learning and embody an enlightened way in the modern era. That's my intention.
Justin:Doctor. It's beautiful. Man, that's, so laughter and crying and leadership and paths and smoke. Let me, I'll simplify that. Well, that was great.
Justin:Great start. So, before, big speeches or interviews like this, Doctor. Wayne Dyer, he would read the following quote to himself. Great.
Smoke:You love Wayne Dyer.
Justin:Yeah, of course, right. If you knew who walked beside you at all times on this path that you have chosen, you could never experience fear or doubt again. These kind of things, I like to start it like that because like we've been given some type of gift and then we're using it. So we're given a gift from some type of higher power and then like, oh, well, here's the gift. Well, let's make the most of it.
Justin:And then, I guess my gift that was given, able to simplify life's complexities into patterns and then to your earlier point, what's the point of, like, becoming a a monk or a recluse or whatever? You you need to share it. You know? So I'm I'm informing people, either through books. Very grateful, doctor Deepak Chopra is doing the intro for next book, or movies apparently.
Justin:Very grateful Gary Sinise has agreed to, narrate a documentary, that apparently I'll be starring in, which is, I guess, you know, that's part of informing people, but it's about my dad who
Smoke:was- Yeah, that's exciting. It's really exciting.
Justin:Right, so don't go away on the mountaintop, inform pew started two new music companies that have AI incorporated into them. I haven't been able to announce it public yet publicly yet, but the partner for the second company is a very well known figure in the actual music industry, which I know nothing about, so that'll be exciting to announce that. And then literally within the last couple days and should be able to announce it more today, starting a leadership company, a leadership company incorporating the four elements of life. So that would be fire, earth, wind, and water, And, we're gonna be creating some type of assessment with that to basically show people what type of leader they are.
Smoke:I love, you know what I love? One of the things I love about Justin too is is you're you have zero zero fear of jumping into things that you are unfamiliar with and just going with what your gut Heart. Heart and gut.
Justin:Yeah. Heart and
Smoke:gut. And and and like the music thing like that just came out of conversations and you know manifested and then I know you you had an opportunity to start like you know socializing it last week or with me at the at the the IPI Camden Wealth family office event and start talking to people. But, you know, so we're going to get into some of those things that I think that they're really cool. And one of the things that I like to say at the start and what I intend here is that we try to break as much ground as we can. In other words, not for the sake of breaking ground, but if there's something that they can find on your website, my website, a talk we gave, that's great.
Smoke:We can point to it. And let's share it more deeply. Know, what I find in our conversations that, you know, frankly, any one of which could have been an episode, frankly, just naturally, is that there's just, we go deep pretty fast. There's no holding back. It's not like, you know, hey, here's a book report on something.
Smoke:It's really about like, you know, what's the 5% up or down? The things that are really, really, really meaningful. And one of the things that you talked about in the pre work that we'll publish alongside this episode, one of the questions was, what's the most significant lesson you've learned from failure or challenging period, darkest moments, whatever. You went to your story about your dad, being hit by the drunk driver, I think dying on the spot and then your mom, it was his nurse and is that how they met?
Justin:That's how they met. Yeah, that's how they met and My dad was 61 when I was born. His 100 birthday was February 8,
Smoke:a
Justin:couple days ago. Mean, he's obviously not alive still. Doctor.
Smoke:Yeah, but talk about spanning the generations. You were born to someone who was born in, you know- 1916,
Justin:yeah, 1916. Yeah, 1916, wow. Yeah, so I don't like using the word should, but I should be like 80 years old and then I'm 47 in human form and then I have like the childlike mindset, heartset of like a five year old or a six year old, although I'm like a little kid. Know, I'll talk about my dad in a second but like so when you lead with your you're just purely vulnerable, lead with your heart like my dad always did. He died when I was 13, but when you do that, it can be very difficult at times.
Justin:Meaning, like if you really love someone, just tell them. Some people aren't necessarily ready to hear things like that or feel things like that. In human design, I'm a manifester. I would not be surprised if you're a manifester as well, but manifestors have to tell people how they feel no matter what, and it's not to create problems or anything, it's to create peace. So all these things that have been started or launched, they're just pure products of leading with heart, gut intuition and then informing people about them.
Justin:And most of the world, in fact, the overwhelming majority of the world, even in entrepreneur world, overwhelming majority of the world, they don't function like that, which is totally fine. So to be like this, it takes a long time to find the right people. A long time. Sometimes,
Smoke:a Doctor. Justin, you create resistance, right? Like if you're, you could call it blunt but if you are as blunt as one can be, which is truthful, that can feel offensive, that can feel like an affront to someone, you can create a lot of resistance. So, finding your people, I think that's one of the great lessons certainly I've learned is that, you know, hey, you know what, this is a big world. There's what, 8,000,000,000 plus people today.
Smoke:They're not all for each other. They're not, they didn't, first of all, we didn't come in at the same consciousness level as infants, which by the way, we all have a kind of starting point and we don't have the same mission or dharma or what karma will work through. And not everybody's for everybody. As I've gone through this process and I've become, I don't wanna say I don't care, but it is that in some ways. It's really a falling away of, it's not even a not caring, it's an automatic falling away of the people who don't resonate with where I'm resonating and an automatic attraction with the who are resonating along the same lines.
Smoke:Again, you and I have connected instantly. We got introduced. I think Ned introduced us. We talked instantly. We're like, okay, we're fast friends, like that first call.
Smoke:And then it just kind of manifested from there. And it didn't take us very long to do that and that was an energetic resonance. It wasn't because we had a long deep to become friends.
Justin:Don't need to.
Smoke:No.
Justin:Well Juan thanks for saying that just to in some way humanize this, if it's helpful because in form, right, in numerology and I never even, I didn't even know what numerology was six months ago, but in numerology, I'm an 11 life path, which is very rare, it's called the master number and then it's essentially two people in one. So the first half of life is a one, which is leadership, ego, achievement, leadership, ego, achievement, leadership, ego, achievement. And then around the 45 year old Mark, I'm 47, 40 seven and a half, you become a two which is deeply, deeply spiritual, deeply emotional, incredibly sensitive, rise of the divine feminine, which I mean again if you would have told me I'd be talking about that six months ago, wouldn't wouldn't have believed it and then 11s, most 11s really struggle because it's such a big purpose and you're two people in one person. They retreat into a life of solitude, the monk life, they will literally retreat into the abyss, a simple quiet life. I am the exact opposite of that.
Justin:I will just plow through, no matter what and then obviously we'll have to see about that, but apparently master numbers, which are 112233, they're supposedly in their last incarnation on this planet or at least one of the last ones. So hopefully I've learned enough lessons at this point. That's what my book's about, epic journey books. So hopefully I've learned enough lessons where I finally passed that test. We'll have to wait and see, but I hope that's the case.
Smoke:When is your expect, do you know when it's coming out yet?
Justin:I would say within a few months. I just received the parts of the final manuscript and let's see what can I say, so the publishing team for this is one, I mean they just are, they're one of the top publishing teams in the world, this was purely manifested to have Deepak Chopra do the intro, I'm very grateful for that, but the actual book manuscript was written in like a couple weeks, just completely followed my heart to this town in France that I had never heard of in my life, was following my dad's World War II? My dad was a World War II hero who fought in the battle of the Hurkin Forest toward the end of World War II and then after he died, I found this diary of his from the battle and that's what the this documentary is going to be about as well. Gary Sinise is, you know, big into World War II and veterans.
Smoke:He's
Justin:narrating it and then, it's, going to be me going back to the Herken Forest area, to follow-up.
Smoke:Was that the one was that where the Bannon Brothers thing was or is
Justin:that a different Parts of it, but that's so that's a good point. So the Hurricane Forest is like it's not this, but I think of this as the movie Fury with Brad Pitt. It was that horrific. Was that was not filmed in Hurricane Forest, but you know I have the diary, there's multiple parts of it in the epic journey book, but like there's no way my dad should have survived that. He was one of the few out of hundreds of people in his unit to survive and then people like us, you know, the true visionaries were the ones that for some reason we have the EQ and IQ or the gift from the higher power.
Justin:I was last year I was on Necker Island where Sir Richard Branson lives and spent five days with him and he almost died right in front of me on a bike crash like literally bicycle, bicycle and I go, are you not dead? And he's like, I've always had he said he's always had a North Star protecting him, which I feel like people like us, we've, there's some type of North Star protecting us. Then even since childhood, we felt like we were different and didn't necessarily belong in human world. So I think everyone has that. It's just they're not necessarily aware of it.
Justin:They're not aware it.
Smoke:You know, I think everyone has their guardians, angels or whatever, North Star, whatever you want to call it. Good point. And you know what's fascinating to me in the of your dad and just thought of war, you know, we get a lot of questions around why would God allow war? Why would there be so much suffering in the world? You know, you come to realize and my current understanding is that you can't really ask why, but what we can observe is, you can ask why, but you're not going get an answer.
Smoke:But what you can observe is that we are in a perfect world where we have literally every gamut of experience from the lowest of the low, you know, and survival to the highest of high enlightenment and everything in between. You know, it's up to each individual to glean what they can from their circumstances. So, I think about like that generation, your dad's generation that fought in World War II and survived and came out of horrific experiences that, you couldn't even imagine. You know, I think about like, well, he came out with a purpose. He came out with a knowingness that like, hey, I got spared, my buddies didn't, and I'm gonna live my life.
Smoke:And, you know, there's a value to that. And, it's not that like no one should say, oh, we should have war because of that. But, it is a fact of humanity that they, humanity, I say they, I reveal myself if I say that. But humanity continues to repeat the same ego mind problems and ending up in these cycles of conflict and violence. But there is good things that can come out of those things.
Smoke:Think of Viktor Frankl and his whole philosophy and what came out of him suffering in the concentration camp. It's extraordinary.
Justin:Well, Man's Search for Meaning definitely is a number one favorite book. I don't think that'll ever be topped, boy if that if something tops that. By the way, the book I just read from Doctor. Wayne Dyer's book, it's I Can See Clearly Now, that's his memoir. So that's number two.
Smoke:Thank you.
Justin:You're welcome, that's second favorite. Second favorite book, but just because of, you know, my father and how my parents met, like my litmus test is my father, like, in terms of and I don't believe in excuses. I literally don't understand them. It's like I I I just it's like speaking another language for me that I I don't know. But so he was shot down multiple times in combat, many times without a parachute.
Justin:He wrote about that. I have I have it right in the other room here, and then he would just get back into another plane. So that's my litmus test for anything. So when I hear people, and there's no right or wrong or judgment, but when I hear people complaining about trivial things, I literally don't understand it and the people I really, really, really, really care about the most or love the most are the bravest, they're the bravest ones. They have this somehow this ability to not make excuses no matter what and when I and I can feel it 11 life paths are the most intuitive.
Justin:They can just feel things. They're the most sensitive. So, when I can feel that immediately, it's the greatest magnet and I have the most respect and appreciation for people like that. It's very rare, very rare and I can like someone's honor. Can see.
Smoke:Well, let's I love that and I I couldn't couldn't agree more and let's dig into that a little bit just to kind of flush it out
Justin:for maybe people who are
Smoke:on their own path there. You know, we might be talking to some youngsters who are like aspiring to leadership, who are also interested in this discussion. And, you know, what do we mean by that? It isn't that, and I'll define it from my side, and you tell me if you agree with this or if you think differently. There's no excuses.
Smoke:In other words, we control our own destiny. That doesn't mean we control every outcome. It means we control our It's
Justin:the exact opposite of Yeah.
Smoke:What we bring to the table, we control how we how we show up. How we show up for an opportunity, a challenge, situation. We give it our all, we give it our full Everything. Embodiment, our full presence. There's no distract.
Smoke:It is we are doing whatever we're doing. If it's cleaning the kitchen or if it's training the new puppy, which I've been doing lately, or if it's which I hope I'm living up to that.
Justin:Dog is great.
Smoke:Oh my god. Or or if if it's doing a giant deal or putting a book together or speaking to on stage to to a big audience, Whatever it is, whatever level, it doesn't matter what what it is. Are we giving it our all? Are we fully present in the moment and giving it? And that's what you mean by no excuses.
Smoke:Like, there's no like, I'm not gonna leave anything on the table. You are Everything. Everything. Yeah. We were at the I think, like, I gave some fireside chats, and I had it with different guests, and you saw, like, I think some of them I'm being respectful, and I'm but I'm trying to bring out things that are not not in their bio, not in the book that they publish, not in, like, the thing you read.
Smoke:I'm trying to get them to share something more deeply that might connect with the other people in the audience. But to do that, I'm showing up. I'm there. I'm fully present. And I'm not trying to be super blunt or making them uncomfortable, but I'm also trying to bring them into the present moment as much as I can.
Smoke:I think because of that, we had some great real essence shared there.
Justin:Yeah. Well, one, thanks for saying that. And if it's I'm not big into context, but if it's I'm a relator, so if it's helpful for context. I was a journalist for twenty years, so interviewed tens of thousands of people and then simplified into patterns, And for people like us, a great way for them to open up blank name, insert, visionary, whatever, and then they talk about all the great things that she or he is up to. And then, not counting silver spoons, I know a lot of silver spoons.
Justin:I just introduced a Rockefeller to a DuPont. I thought that was there are four things, four things that separate people like us from people who aren't. So four things, so one is bankruptcy or potential bankruptcy, two, depression, three, highest level of anxiety you can imagine, four, trauma as a child or young adult. So bankruptcy, potential bankruptcy, depression, anxiety, trauma as a child or young adult. So, not counting the silver spoons, I think I've talked to eight or nine folks who are less than three of those four things.
Justin:Less. Most of the people I talk to are all four. I'm three of the four, knock on wood, haven't had to worry about bankruptcy or potential bankruptcy. However, I would bankrupt myself, not family, but I would bankrupt myself to do this book and all this other stuff, like I would gladly do that. But most of the people I talk to are all four now and then most of what they've built is a mask to cover those four things.
Smoke:Sure, that makes sense to me. I spent a lot of years running from childhood trauma that I didn't remember and then sorted that out. I definitely have at least three of the four and I say had because while it's always a part of one, my history, each of our experience is always kind of a part of us. Once you transcend that pain and go through this alchemy, alchemic process of embodying the trauma with the learning lessons, with forgiveness, with all the different pieces that cause alchemy to happen,
Justin:Yeah.
Smoke:You're no longer in that state and you can look at it non attachment a way that is very helpful and it creates an incredible ability to hold space for others who are suffering, others who are going through these things. I find that I now get coming to me people who have or are suffering for some one hundred Justin, before, I be looking while you're telling me some trauma you have, I'd be looking at where's the closest bar that we could go get a drink and lighten this conversation. That was the old smoke. Now I'm like, okay, tell me more. Tell me more.
Smoke:What does that really mean to you, So it's like, I'm in a different ability to hold space, I guess. Doctor.
Justin:Yes. Yeah, it's called evolution. It's called evolution. I liken it to a caterpillar, well, an egg and then a caterpillar, and then the caterpillar, goes into a cocoon, a chrysalis, and then it literally disintegrates. So it's called positive disintegration.
Justin:The caterpillar melts, it becomes an ooze and then the body shifts around like only it's very little, like last little bit of essential life, most important body parts. It just melts and then it becomes a butterfly and then the butterfly comes out of the cocoon, the chrysalis. I would describe, if it's helpful, I would say you're fully out. It's interesting that we're doing this interview. I would say all these things that I guess I'm doing, I would say they're the butterfly about to come out.
Justin:I would say I'm like right the part where I've disintegrated for sure, whether you call that dark night of the soul or whatever spiritual awakening, whatever that is coming out as a butterfly very soon or maybe already have come out and then like the wings are drying, but I love talking to people like you, one, because it's very rare, two, I would say you're more evolved than I am, which is I'd rather be in that situation. I really like helping people and being a space for them. It's very rare for me to talk to people who are more evolved, so I'm grateful for that because you're further along on this journey than I am.
Smoke:Well, yeah, thank you. It's funny, as soon as you think you're really evolved, go spend a week with your family and see what pops up, right? And so I had opportunities last year to kinda spend a good amount of quality time with various constituents of family members. And it was a good it was a really good, like like, litmus test of where where am I? Where do I think I am versus where where am I?
Smoke:And Ken Wilbur talks about, like, ground zero, which I I like. But but one of his things is where are you at ground zero? As we transcend levels of awareness, consciousness, and become more aware of things, you get a bigger contextualization view of everything be below that level, but you can't see above it. You can't see above it. So as we train as we keep going so all I know is, like, I don't know what I don't know, Justin.
Smoke:Like, I I'm I know less now than I knew before, but the things that bothered me before don't bother me whatsoever.
Justin:That's the evolution. That's the evolution and again, thanks for saying that. The last little maybe this answers it but like the last little bit, I think, before the butterfly fully comes out is the ego. The ego is very tricky, very manipulative and so that's one. And then because you've mentioned this a couple times which is I don't believe in randomness but it's letting go of attachment to any outcome, to any outcome.
Justin:Very difficult, that's very difficult, very, very difficult and then people cite like the surrender experiment or the word surrender. Me personally, I do not like that word, one because I come from a long line of war heroes that if you say the word surrender, that is not that you end up in POW camp or dead. So I don't like I just don't like don't like that word, it doesn't resonate with me. So the word that I was reading a spiritual article on Medium and the word they used, instead of surrender was relaxing.
Smoke:Relaxing, yep, I could see that. And letting go is another look at that. You know, surrender, I had some resistance to that too. And my only comment on that is for me, surrendering to divinity, to a higher power, to cosmic heart, to infinite consciousness, to God is a different thing than, surrendering to anything else. So, yeah, you know, it's just it's just a a lens of of of that word, which, you know, I don't I don't bow my head to any human, any natural situation.
Smoke:And I don't view anyone as above anyone else. I think there are certainly people who are more conscious and more aware. Everybody has this divine light inside and it's just how much of it is covered up in your unconsciousness.
Justin:The tar?
Smoke:Yep, the tar analogy we talked about. I think that really feels good to me because we had that conversation over lunch where we were talking about spiritual ego, right? Like creeping in, which is, that can happen in this process as you drop your human ego mind and you get, you feel like, one feels like they are progressing and becoming much more conscious and aware, it's easy to creep back in through like, Oh, I'm at a higher level, I'm special, I'm this, I'm that. What keeps me grounded is the humility of knowing that every single living entity, human and non entity, like that rock behind me and those plants by everything, only there, is only manifest because of divine energy, divine light, and they all, they're, they exist in all of us and so, it's more a matter of, doesn't mean I don't have discernment. That's it.
Smoke:I'd love to talk about that because that's I'm happy to. That's extremely important. But- Yeah. You could have discernment and you can avoid quote evil or things that are ignorance with discernment without judging or feeling like someone or something is below you. It's not that, it's that they are less evolved.
Justin:They're on their own journey. The first thing I do every day when I wake up, it's from a book, called The Prayer of Jabez, J A B E Z, but
Smoke:here's I read it because you recommended it.
Justin:Oh, great. Oh, that you would bless me indeed and enlarge my territory, that your hand would be with me and that you would keep me from evil. It's the first thing I'd say it's done. You know, I've been reading that for over a year now, so I'd say it's pretty good. And then discernment.
Justin:So discernment, again, for a tactical, so it actually can help people. There's a great assessment called working genius. Workinggenius.com.
Smoke:And most
Justin:of the people I, not all, but most of the people I talk to are like wonder inventors, so they're ideators and then they have a mix of either discernment or galvanize and so I'm actually, it's called discernment galvanize, so that's the intuitive activator. So I can hear blah blah blah blah blah blah blah or or meet you know a thousand people and then there's one idea or there's one of those thousand that either they just come to me like I'm guessing happens to you all the time, that's just a magnet or I can just feel it, I can sense it and then galvanize oh, blah blah blah blah blah. Oh, there's a great idea. Okay. Do it.
Justin:Oh, blah blah blah blah blah Oh, start a music company. Okay. Do it. Blah blah blah. Oh, look.
Justin:Deepak Chopra just walked in while when I was I was ringing the Nasdaq bell. I'm not I don't I don't know when IPOs or anything financial. Was ringing the Nasdaq Bell ringing the Nasdaq Bell in February of twenty twenty four, and then Deepak Chopra walks in. I go, oh, oh, it'd be great if you did intro for next book. So that was before I'd even started writing the book.
Justin:So then
Smoke:That's awesome. Okay. Great.
Justin:So that's discernment galvanize the
Smoke:You had you Deepak. I I went to I did an interview on the New York Stock Exchange for years back and in the elevator with some guy, obviously felt like he was really important. And I was just, like, going in for my interview. I was, you know, I wasn't really paying much attention. And he, you know, we said hello to each other and he was going on the same show I was going on.
Smoke:You know, I said, I'm Spoky. And he's like, I'm Craig. I'm like, oh, Craig, whatever. And he's like, you know, from the list. Oh, Craig.
Smoke:You mean Craig's list? Oh, that's cool. Nice to meet you, Craig. But he was like, like, why he thought I would ever know who he looks like? Because I I think he's been pretty much, you know, behind the scenes.
Smoke:But anyway, he was it was very funny. Anyway, that was just made me think of you ringing the bell, made me think of that.
Justin:Of course because and then oh so great point. Oh man, okay. So that's serendipity. So like serendipity means like you're going somewhere or looking for something but it's worth what you weren't looking for.
Smoke:Oh yeah.
Justin:So like going to speak at the event which you chaired which was it was an amazing opportunity, I'm endlessly grateful for it and then I met someone there who were starting a company based on, I didn't expect to start another company about leadership like, but that's what and that's just kind of what when you float around and lead with your heart and then have that discernment and then the ability to mechanize, galvanize it and then just for any age leader or whoever it is, I'm really good at like starting it, but I the backstage people to like run the company to understand the finances part. That is not my it's never going to be my expertise. I don't want it to be. There's a spiritual test. If you Google free spiritual test, there's many of them, but I'm what's called an ascetic or an ascetic.
Justin:A S C E T I C. Greatest fear for an ascetic is useless materialism. So a lot of money doing all this, like that is like literally an aesthetics greatest fear. Famous aesthetics or aesthetics, Jesus and Francis Assisi's. That's kind of how I live my life.
Justin:So I don't really like materialistic things, but I need to be around people who can generate revenue and income because one, they're much better at it than I am, but two, having that allows me to fulfill my purpose. It allows me to have freedom. It's realizing that.
Smoke:Yeah, know. It's realizing it and being okay with it. Know, it's fine if someone wants to renounce the world and give up all things and live in a monastery. Frankly, monks living in the monasteries help hold the world together with their consciousness. I mean, field they hold is very important.
Smoke:Absolutely. That's great. And it's fine to manifest abundance and to be around abundance. Don't, it's the attachment to it. It's the, it's the- 100%.
Smoke:Well, I think one way in retrospect, right, in context, one reason I was always willing to, you know, talk about your four, your four things or, you know, the trauma thing, you know, the bankruptcy thing for me. Someone once told me, Mike Colby is you make you got you make rags to riches a round trip. So, you'll appreciate that, but, like, it's the pure quick start entrepreneur, big game hunter.
Justin:Me too.
Smoke:And and part of part of the the the, you know, my in retrospective, you know, looking back is like, never it's not that I didn't care. Not that I didn't get anxious or upset when I was running into an issue. I I did. I'm human. But it was like, I never cared enough to not be with be unwilling to take the risk to lose it all again.
Smoke:And I did that. I did that a bunch of times on paper, ten, fifty, or more hundred million on paper was there, and then it was gone. I did it a few times. But it's not and I'm not saying that's great. Like, it would be a lot smarter to take some off the table and not, like, go to zero or negative, which I did do a couple times.
Justin:Of course.
Smoke:Also, I just never cared that much. I was never worried as much about that. And my idea was always like, Oh, I'll just do it again. I'll do something else. I never worried about it.
Smoke:So, I was willing to take some risks that I think, you know, felt unusual to a lot of people.
Justin:So to operate and function like that is one, it's very rare. Again, even for a true visionary, it's very rare. And then two, my favorite quote is from Ralph Waldo Emerson, he wrote it in the mid-1800s, to be great is to be misunderstood, to be great is to be misunderstood. And the word average comes from the French word aviary, a v e r I e, it means damage to a ship or cargo. That's what it means.
Smoke:I love that actually, it makes sense.
Justin:Yeah, makes, I mean that's what it means and the word business by the way comes from bisingus which means anxiety. I had never understood wanting to be average and again it's not being, it's not above or it's not, it's just like to me baseline is great.
Smoke:But you know so let's, but that Emerson quote is great. I love that because you know what does that imply? That means what it implies to me if you take the and you and your definition of average and put them together, what that implies to me is that going with the if you go with the flow with with the the paradigm of society that is put on you, you will be understood and average. And if you are willing to break that paradigm, go against the flow, people will not understand you, you will not be average. And it's actually our innate purpose here is to be our own person, not to go with the flow, not to just be a good, good citizen this way or that.
Smoke:And it doesn't mean everyone needs to break the glass and everyone needs to go do something that is out of the realm. If, you define yourself by whatever the paradigm is that's been put on you by society, you're average, you're understood. And, and to me, like that's not a good thing.
Justin:I would, I would agree. The, I do a lot of, learning and reading, one because it helps me, but also if, if I can learn something that can help others, then that's, that's good because like, again, it's not a solitary confinement, it's learning something and then informing people but That's
Smoke:why we're here.
Justin:Right, agree. So, Carl Young, Doctor. Carl Young, he was great, most people know him or have heard of him. He had a disciple named Robert Johnson who did a lot of like grail work. So most people think the holy grail is like this outward search for something material, holy grail, it's actually an inner search for your own heart, inner search.
Justin:But so my favorite quote from Robert Johnson, which dovetails what you're talking about, and this is paraphrasing, for a select few, for a select few, there is a determination to seek liberation from social hypnosis or social conditioning. So for a select few, there is a determination to seek liberation from social conditioning, social hypnosis. So essentially what that means is, and again, being aware of this is the most, you know, it's the first step, it's the first step and then and then being an observer for it and then informing people. So awareness observing, informing, but you see the world's just this giant mask essentially, it's a giant human construct of anxiety or religion means to bind. The word family, which I did not put in the book, although I'll reveal it now, the word family actually is referring to household slaves, household staff.
Justin:That's what family actually means.
Smoke:I tried to make my children that for a little while, but they they revolted.
Justin:Well, that's
Smoke:good. They overthrew they overthrew their
Justin:chains and but but that's what
Smoke:it literally They made me the slave.
Justin:Well, and and so, like, it's kind of funny, but that's like, you go out to, if you just go out to a restaurant and watch a, just watch a family how they communicate. Most families, not all, there's certainly some but that's what it means. And then so being aware of this, it's great, observing it is great, but what are you going to do about it? Are you going to sit back and not do anything about it or are you going to seek liberation from it and then make others aware of that or at least explain it in a way that might get them to think or feel differently about what's going on in their hearts and heads.
Smoke:Your relationships change, Justin,
Justin:Oh, yes they do.
Smoke:And when you're, when you come at things from They do. Not from lack, When you come at things with that conscious awareness that you're saying, you're aware of all of the things or as many of the things that you're aware of is whatever they are. Because you're never aware of all the things. You're aware of things and you are in a relationship because it's productive, it's useful, it's friendly, it's loving, it's caring. We are humans, we are naturally drawn to that.
Smoke:But you're not in it from lack. You're not in it because you need something from that person. You're in it because we are all one part of humanity and we're helping each other in some way, shape or form. But it's a very different feeling to come at things from that perspective. I think it's not coming at any of this stuff as wanting or needing something.
Smoke:I had that, you know, as I've gone through this process, I clearly had lack in my youth and then it drove my entrepreneurial ambitions and the things that I was focused on. And I was about how do I accumulate? How do I do these things? How do I And actually, was always more than accumulate. It was more, how do I get notoriety?
Smoke:How do I get How do I break from the clutter? Because that was in a way, and it was important, was protection for me. I came press, the notoriety, being a part of some bigger society thing was actually protection from me, from what I was escaping.
Justin:Of course.
Smoke:But today I come at it and I don't care. I had the benefit of Fast Money on CNBC. I've done these shows on TV. I've done all this. I've been in tons and tons of articles.
Smoke:And I, you know, I know I know all about that. I'm glad I did it. It was great for my learning and my experience, but I I don't I don't really care now. Like, if I do it, it's it's because because it's supposed to happen and it makes sense, and I it's a way it's a it's a platform to get the word out and help more people in some way, shape or form. That need to hear my message or for whatever reason, they'll hear it because of that and they wouldn't have heard it otherwise.
Smoke:But it isn't for the other reasons anymore.
Justin:Well, thanks for saying that. Then as someone who's I was a journalist for twenty years and who started a global PR firm, doing all that stuff. That stuff's fine, it's great, but I completely resonate with what you're saying. And then, about a week ago from today, I wrote out, I'll text you this afterwards, but it's five things that we want, five things that we want and then I'll just read them. One, purpose that brings peace and joy to the world.
Justin:Two, true this talks about the partnership, but true love and understanding from the partner who enhances that peace and joy and sharing mutual harmony. So, you don't need something to complete you, want to be and need to be with someone who enhances that, who understands it and it's Okay. Three, the ability to see obstacles as the greatest formulas for true greatness. Four, did this was a triangle shape I did but inner love creates more attracting perfect match which creates more divine union, which creates more inner love and then it's a distraction. And then the fifth one which is really, you know, this is an example of that but where the world's really heading, maybe this is the most valuable one but embrace technology as the ultimate soul collaborator which leads to healing yourselfhealing collective consciousness.
Justin:That's what I've really learned about technology, specifically AI, ChatGPT, and then making these songs. I guess one of the companies I started is teaching people how to make songs through AI, which is
Smoke:And what's what do you guys what is that one called?
Justin:That one's called that's what corvia dot ai. C o r v I a dot ai.
Smoke:Well, me I wanna comment two things on that. First of all, I really really like that. I like the third the fourth one which is self love. What I now know with deep knowing is you really can't give love if you don't have love yourself. It's hypocrisy.
Smoke:It's hypocrisy. Yes. There's a lot of people out there pushing do gooderism or It's mass. It's immense. It's usually projection.
Smoke:It's usually some mass because it's something else. It doesn't mean that it's everyone, but virtual signaling, as defined by taking a position so that people will think something that you are some kind of person is that. It is it is making up for a lack of self love and and and discovery that that you have. And I've I've always had little or no tolerance for it and living through the last decade of silliness in our society. Honestly, I kept my head down more than I didn't because it just wasn't worth the fights.
Smoke:But I also held firm on, like, I'm not gonna say something because everyone thinks it's the right thing to say. Like, this is silliness. And it it feels like a a big weight has been lifted off society with with what's happening. You know, we don't need to get into politics here because I don't care, but I do care about that. I care about if you have a cause that you care about, you have something that is important to you, whatever it is, the Palestinians, Jews state, the homeless, know, sexually abused children, you name it, whatever it is, like things, you know, all these things that are, they're all part of society, they're all important.
Smoke:And if you believe in something and you wanna make a contribution to it and by your being, are supporting that thing, great. But if you're on your soapbox just yelling out at other people and you haven't looked in the mirror and dealt with your own stuff, like that's hypocrisy. At
Justin:the highest level. I guess to simplify that, if you're not a litmus test for people you serve, it's hypocrisy. So, okay. So I'm from a, two things from that. Again, hopefully to help or inform.
Justin:Okay, so I'll do it from a firsthand experience and then a lot of what I see. A lot. Okay? And this is just to make people aware, hopefully. So one, my purpose in life is connecting visionaries to serve humanity.
Justin:So visionaries, so if you're so I'm a visionary serving humanity. That's a litmus test. So I talk to visionaries who are serving humanity. They have the capital. Most of them have the capital to do it.
Justin:If they don't have the capital to do it, they'll find a way to do it. They're not making an excuse. Okay? No, no, no, no excuses. We have to be able to mechanize.
Justin:And then what I do see quite a bit is, and it's a really fascinating thing, I don't understand it but I see it, is you have a massive part of the population that asks people to invest in them, whether that's time or capital, connections, etc. And then they don't have the connections, they don't have the capital and then they're not, most importantly, they're not investing in themselves. So it's this fascinating dynamic of people asking to invest, others to invest in what they're doing or saying and then they don't have the capital to actually invest in themselves in what they're doing or saying. And I've never understood, I just literally don't understand it, but there's this massive part of the population. Maybe in, quote, in our world, there's more of it, not in the employee world, but in this world where they're on a soapbox talking about this, but not actually doing anything about it, if that makes sense.
Smoke:The reality is the essence of ourselves is actually quite transparent once you're aware. Once you're at a certain level of consciousness, you can basically sense or see the essence of people. And we are like the beingness of ourselves is a manifestation of everything that's come before and all the potential meeting the the other potential that's around you. So we think, oh, I have these I'm out here being really happy and everything, but I have these negative self talk. I'm having these horrible thoughts about myself or, you know, I'm get I'm I had I had a a CEO, recently who I know she has a lot of negative self talk.
Smoke:And so and then she gets up and talks in front of a group and she get she's very self deprecating. It kinda is funny, but I I I took her aside and I said, listen. You're the CEO of this now and you are a great leader and you've earned this and stop with the negative. I knew that self deprecating mannerisms and talk was a manifestation of her negative self talk. And it was her way of like making light of her nervousness front of the group.
Smoke:I was like, listen, you belong here. And you need to just take hold of the situation and quit the negative self talk. I don't shit on people, but in this case, she asked. And I was like, okay, well, here's what I see. Stop shitting on yourself.
Smoke:Get rid of the negative self talk and own it. Just get up and own it. Own it outright. Don't don't I'm happy to talk to her, by the way.
Justin:That'd a
Smoke:good Yeah. But but I mean that and so but we think these internal dialogues, you have a negative thought about somebody or you judge somebody. You think it's your own thing. But actually, if they're if they're at a certain level, they they they know it. They they absolutely know it.
Smoke:Like, it's not it's it it everything everyone thinks, feels, or does is recorded by the universe and is available if you're at a certain level of consciousness to see. So there's no, we're all an open book even if you don't think you are.
Justin:Great. Yeah, an unconscious open book. That's an interesting, if it's helpful as a relator, I just messaged you by the way, because one of us has to have follow through, so I just sent you a reminder to introduce me then and so most people think that's rude, but people like us like, oh, that's just good multitasking, but the
Smoke:Yeah, no, you are actually really good at like doing it on the spot and my only criticism, it's not really criticism, is what the heck is the introduction is like, Mo, meet Mark, go. So there's no background.
Justin:No cotton, no cotton.
Smoke:It's like, all right. So we have to just assume there's something here and like we should have a conversation. Yes. So I just go with it, but it's funny.
Justin:Yes, thank you. I'll try to do, I'll try to do one sentence of context for the next.
Smoke:Even like a couple clues, like a couple words like I'm
Justin:gonna it. Gonna remember you said that. Yeah. So I, from her perspective, I really appreciate her being vulnerable because if she's vulnerable that allows other people to be vulnerable and then she has very high level self awareness because she asked for your, she respected your opinion.
Smoke:Yeah.
Justin:And then I'm guessing that she'll take what you said and actually do something about it. So that's a very evolved leader who's looking into herself or himself to make themselves a better leader so they can attract better leaders and help others become better leaders. So that's a very profound thing, very profound anecdote you shared because that's what a true leader really does. One, they're very self aware. Two, they have an ability to be vulnerable, to help others.
Justin:And then three, they will take, I don't like the word advice, but they'll take, they'll take criticism or not criticism, but they'll take feedback not as a criticisms at all, but they'll to get better. And so that's
Smoke:It's really a superpower Justin. And I think again, on your theme of helping people on the path, the ability to acknowledge your lack of, you know, I don't have all the answers. I have some experiences that I can contribute to this situation, but that may be different than what I know. And there may be different things that I don't understand about it that, I'm not I'm not aware of. So I'm gonna walk into every situation with a with a bit a lot of humility and a lot of I have my tool set up the things I know how to react to, but let's make sure that it's the right like, I'm understanding everything.
Smoke:And just by going in with that open minded stance, things become evident that would not otherwise become evident. Like, if they if I came in and I said, oh, Justin, I know exactly your problem. I've seen it before. Here's the solution. I can help you.
Smoke:Da da da da da. As opposed to really, like, holding judgment and just being like, alright, what is this situation really? What am I not seeing? And just being aware of like asking that question, things become evident that would not otherwise show up. Oh, it's actually a different thing altogether.
Justin:Well, you've come you come at it with the right, well maybe right's not the right word, but the framework. It's a containment framework meaning active listening, active listening and then if it doesn't fit the formula that you've already created, well then you just create a new formula or you learn a new formula and then conscious conversations convert to capital, community and collaboration, so that's a lot of alliteration and a lot of C words, but bringing these type of conversations into the conscious collective, it leads to those type of collaborations and learning. So like on a strategic structural standpoint or whatever procedural, my whole day is having conversations like, I guess in human terms, through Friday, Monday through Friday is having conversations like this, whether they're one on one, whether they're recorded or not, whether they're in a group mastermind forum that I'm either leading or participating in. And most of them are done, not all, but most of them are done virtually with technology. Very few one on one in person meetings anymore, Because technology is a better way of to me a better way of enhancing your soul without having to go anywhere.
Justin:But the main thing to your point is being the observer, a critical observer, and then learning something from it. And then if you have something that might be beneficial, then share it. And if you learn something that can be beneficial in active time, then learn it and then share it. So that's, I think this conversation for me personally is a combination of that. So like I have some things to share and then I'm learning a lot from you that I can process immediately and then share right now or share later.
Justin:Thank you for that.
Smoke:Well, yeah, thank you. We are where we spend our energy. Our energy is where you put your time, thought, it's all those things. And every experience we have is becoming part of us. We are changed by every conversation.
Smoke:So I am blessed to have this conversation with you, Justin, and to be changed by our dialogue. There's several things I need to run down that you mentioned that I now wanna look at and see how they reflect on things I'm thinking about. And if people wanna reach you, I know you spend most of your time with a very select group of visionaries, but if they want to reach your work, they want to understand more about some of the things you've mentioned, what's the best site, place, location? How how how do you how do you interact?
Justin:Sure, if it's okay, I'll provide two, but I guess currently the main company, it's called theepicfit.com, theepicfit Com. It's a global, I guess, mastermind where we talk about things like this. And then most of our members, not all, but most of them are fairly wealthy. So they have the capital to actually impact humanity very quickly. So theepicfit.com and then I'm on LinkedIn, Justin Breen, you can reach out to me there as well.
Smoke:Awesome. Well, really appreciate this and I hope you'll join me for further conversations because I think we just scratched the surface on a couple of things and I think we have lots more
Justin:to get into. We could do once a month, if not twice a month. That would be a good show for sure.