The Garage Podcast from Sonatus brings you conversations with thought leaders from around the vehicle technology space discussing far-reaching topics about software innovation in vehicles.
These episodes will include industry experts, whether from Sonatus, or from our amazing partners across the industry, all of whom will share their Ideas and their outlook for the most important topics in vehicle technology. Episodes span from more technical topics, to business evolution, and market trends. Join us and learn about the future of vehicle in The Garage.
Today in The Garage, our
guest is a Ajit Chander,
who's associate partner and
mobility practice leader for
Frost and Sullivan.
Today's conversation,
we talk about a recent analysis
report from Frost and Sullivan
that was partially
sponsored by Sonatus,
where we looked at cloud and
edge AI and the impact and
benefits of those incredible
innovations in the mobility
space in automotive.
It's a very detailed report where
we looked at a number of different,
application and use cases that
provide tangible benefits.
And in today's podcast,
we talk through that report
and hear from Ajit who has
incredible background in
automotive and mobility.
Let's go.
Today in The Garage, our guest
is Ajit Chander from Frost and
Sullivan. Ajit,
welcome to The Garage.
Thanks for having me.
We're so excited to
have you join us today.
Start by telling us a
little bit about yourself.
All right. Well,
I am an engineer.
I was born and raised in India.
And I actually joined Frost
and Sullivan in India before I
moved to North America.
It was primarily to Toronto.
Been with the company a
little over seventeen years.
Seventeen years,
that's a long time.
That's a longer time
I care to admit, yeah.
And I worked across
multiple industries on the
IT services sector.
I worked in the manufacturing
sector before that.
So I bring that cross
industry experience.
Primarily all these years
with Frost and Sullivan,
I've been in the
automotive and transportation industry working
across the different
players in the
ecosystem from OEMs to
suppliers to the finance
of institutions to
the oil and gas companies
to the energy players.
So a pretty broad ...
Very diverse background.
That's great.
So you got to start with
a fun fact about you.
Well, so my daughter,
so I have two daughters.
My younger daughter, she
picked up playing volleyball,
a sport that I've never played.
I played other sports.
I've been decent at
some of the sports,
but never played volleyball.
But, you know, when
when when your kids,
they get get started and start
involving the games, know,
as a dad, you start
to get involved in it.
So I decided to train her.
So I started learning the sport
and then we hired a personal
gym and started training
her on a weekly basis.
And we started seeing
some results in the games,
so did her friends.
So they wanted to also you know
once they realized that you
know the parent parents started
asking me what's going on,
I mean what's the change?
So we had to tell them what
we are doing so they started
bringing their children then.
In no time, I started
managing a teen girls team,
the snacks, the drama,
and the group chats.
Also survived a
lot of eye rolls,
but still had them
run all the drills.
Well, that's fantastic that you're
getting so involved in your in
your family and your
and your daughter.
My fun fact, I always like to
have a fun fact back to our guest.
My daughter was in some many
years ago when she was in
fourth grade, a
science competition.
I'm on a board of a science
center in in San Jose,
and they joined the science
competition for kids, you know,
fourth through twelfth grade.
And so I was a coach for
a team of fourth grade girls doing the
science competition.
So it was so exciting to teach
them about how to use tools
safely and how to build things because
they didn't know much about that.
And so it was good fun.
So there's my my fun
fact back to you.
Nice. Okay. Okay. Nice.
So tell us about
Frost and Sullivan.
Frost and Sullivan is a is a famous
consultancy and analyst firm.
Tell us about your your role
and and what are the scope of
Frost and Sullivan they do?
So I am a associate partner
and I lead the mobility
practice at Frost and Sullivan.
I've been with the company
seventeen years, like I said.
I decide the business
strategy for mid to long term.
At Frost and Sullivan,
we look at disruptive
forces and how it
reshapes the industry.
We are looking at technology
that impacts our clients.
We are actually in the right in
the middle of the forefront of
technology integration.
We're bringing together OEMs
and suppliers and the tech
integration partners.
And as part of this,
we do publish a lot
of research studies.
We engage on strategic projects.
We also publish a lot of
industry wide papers looking at
emerging opportunities.
That's what we do at
Frost and Sullivan.
Well, and that's quite a good
transition that you were the
lead author on a report we were
involved with you recently on
cloud and edge AI.
Looking at how AI has potential
to really transform vehicles
and add value.
It was so great to work with
you and so thank you for your
partnership on that.
And it was also an
incredible work product.
I'd love it if you start with
an introduction of what were
some of the key conclusions and
takeaways you saw in doing that work?
Sure.
So let me start with what are
the impending challenges in the
industry to achieving
the SDV objective?
So there are the fragmented
ML Ops framework.
The data required to train these
models comes from
different ECUs that run on
different models,
more different models
use different frameworks like
PyTorch, TensorFlow and
the validation, testing,
deployment and management of
these different workflows are
handled differently in terms
of tool chains and teams.
So this causes
significant silos,
and there is the disparate
hardware and software.
That's such an important
conclusion because, you know,
as we're working to
deploy AI into vehicles,
one of the things we want to
empower OEMs is to use the
diverse hardware they have.
We shouldn't be
thinking that, well,
we can't do AI until
there's central compute,
or we can't do AI until there's
a giant optimized AI accelerator.
The reality is, and I think this was
a conclusion borne out in your report,
is there's so many use cases
across the vehicle that can be
much more modest performance
requirements and can get
deployed on today's hardware.
And that's one of the things
that Sonatus is trying to do
and it was exciting to see that I
think your report bore that out.
Yeah. You're right.
Mean, so to continue, the
data is coming from different
ECUs and ECUs run
on their own RTOS
and operating system
and middle west stack.
And
that comes with data
access and lifetime OTA
management challenges.
Right.
Now look at what are the
key enablers of SDV, right?
The decoupling of application
software from hardware with
middleware stack and
operating system,
standardizing interfaces,
creating modular designs,
continuous updatability
and upgradability
with integration.
Right.
And then creating
SDV ready hardware.
Yeah, exactly. Absolutely.
And your report said this
was quite a sizable market.
I mean, what's the outlook on
the potential for AI in vehicles
and AI in automotive?
Alright.
I mean, we estimate
the SDV spend by
2030 to be upwards
of $500 billion.
And then we and we analyze
the different use cases.
There's a current impact in
2025 of about $48 billion
that grows up to $238 billion by
2030.
This includes includes several
interesting emerging use cases
like prognostics,
usage based insurance.
So this is the AI part.
So the AI portion of SDV
spend going from 2025 to
two hundred and what in 2030?
From $48 billion to
$238 billion.
So this is real money.
This is not a niche application
and it's also you were starting
to say...I'd love to understand some
of the use cases you found
were the most maybe compelling
or value generating.
There are there are quite a few.
I mean, I would like to just
cover one more point before that.
I mean, we looked at what
are the challenges in the journey
to SDV objectives.
We looked at what are the,
you know, SDV enablers.
So we also now look at what
are the OEMs doing. Right.
I mean, as you looked at General
Motors announcement of central
compute architecture.
And then that increases their
AI compute capabilities by
35 times and their OTA
capabilities by ten times.
Now OEMs are trying to convert
these assets to
monetizable opportunities.
Frost and Sullivan research
shows that ten other OEMs or
ten plus more OEMs are moving
towards a central compute
architecture with middleware
stacks with, you know,
ethernet backbones and OTA
for their DevOps transition
To secure a five-plus year
window for continuous upgrades.
When look at what Tesla did
in just in 2025, They sent, know,
to eight OTA updates,
made approximately,
I think, about forty two
feature updates just in
2025.
Significant. Yeah.
I think there is an opportunity
to deploy AI models existing
hardware in the current
generation silicon.
So no advanced NPUs or high
performance SoCs are required.
And then this has immediate
impact in terms of the use
cases that we have analyzed
as part of the white paper.
That's great. Your
report was so impressive.
You've done and we'll put a
link to the report in the show
notes so people can can look it up
and find out and find out about it.
You put a lot of numbers
behind the impacts and the
the potential benefit of
some of these use cases.
Now here at the at the
show at CES, just outside,
we can just outside where
we're we're sitting here,
we can see our AI Director,
Sonatus AI Director examples
where we're showing many
different use cases.
I'm wondering which are some of
the use cases that stood out to
you as particularly impactful,
particularly valuable?
I think there are several
emerging use cases that we
analyzed as part of
this white paper.
I mean, a lot of them on the
ADAS and cockpit use
cases are well documented.
They're well known, yeah.
Yeah, so, but we looked at several
other emerging use cases that has an
immediate impact.
We looked at prognostics,
usage-based insurance,
sensor virtualization,
edge cybersecurity,
in-cabin sensing.
And we thought a lot of these
have a significant revenue
opportunity, monetization
opportunity for OEMs.
And things that actually stood out
for us in terms of higher impact
are sensor virtualization.
And I can give you a couple of
use cases that we looked at.
And in fact, you
have some real world
partnerships on those
with COMPREDICT.
We've been working
with COMPREDICT,
it's a fantastic partner that
shows how something that would
have normally be done
with an IMU, know,
a motion sensor that
detects angle of vehicle and
accelerometers and so on.
They can remove the IMU,
save twenty dollars
in vehicle BOM costs.
And twenty dollars may
not seem like a lot,
but it's a colossal important
cost savings as OEMs are trying
to squeeze cost
out of the vehicle.
And that's just one use
case. That's correct.
There's many other use cases for things
virtual sensors just in your example.
Yeah.
And then the EU is mandating
it from 2027 That's right.
For headlight leveling sensors
to go on all the vehicles,
and it's going to add
BOM costs for OEMs.
And of course, there
is the indirect TPMS
that can infer tire
pressure from antilock
braking, inertial measurement
units, speed sensors,
visual input.
And it can
detect leaks,
deflation, and efficient
tire management
solution overall.
It's true.
What struck me, and we've
been visiting with many,
many customers throughout
the show here this week,
and I've been explaining and talking
through these different technologies.
The thing that struck me from
the report and from these many
meetings is it's not only that we're
adding some new feature to the IVI.
It's not only that we're adding
a thing that's driver visible.
Some things, driver visible.
You might provide a usage-based
insurance that lets the driver
see feedback to help them be
a safer driver and then by
extension get lower
insurance rates.
That might be driver visible.
Then you might have something
that's slightly less visible
like tire wear,
where you're monitoring the
tire wear and maybe talking to
ADAS system to say, hey, the
tread's getting a little low,
you better increase
the braking distance,
you better be a little bit
more conservative with the
acceleration you permit.
And then later, sometimes
you warn the driver, hey,
by the way, your
tires are getting low,
you should replace the tires
and here's a great way to get
OEM brand tires there.
We know we're gonna
work for your vehicle.
So that's sort of like
semi driver visible,
sometimes visible, maybe
sometimes invisible.
And then you have something
like the virtual sensors you
mentioned, which might be
completely driver invisible.
Driver never knows,
but that we're able to drive
BOM cost out of the vehicle,
which maybe allows the OEM to
have maybe better margins or
maybe be more cost competitive
with their their vehicle or
perhaps combination.
So I think there's a spectrum
of things that are very visible
to not visible at all.
And I think that's a for
me, it's a key observation,
and I think for the industry,
not many people appreciate that
it can be very diverse like that.
Absolutely.
And in fact, I think when I
when we saw this analysis,
we kind of looked
at three buckets.
One is directly impacting the
bill of materials for OEMs.
And then one increases the
operational efficiency and then
gives them the ability to
continuously monetize it over
the life cycle of the
vehicle and then creates this
personalized experience
for the users, end users.
So that I believe is a
significant opportunity and
that accelerates OEMs
towards the SDV objective.
That's I love the way you've
broken that into a slightly
different taxonomy than I did.
But it's interesting because in some
cases, like, example, the BOM cost.
If you're able to take
costs out of the BOM,
it's immediate revenue
or cost benefit,
immediate top line or
bottom line margin benefits.
And then if there but there's
ongoing benefits, well,
that's also useful and it
may provide some ongoing services
revenue or ongoing
parts sales revenue,
which OEMs are
always looking for.
But in a way that possibly
drivers may find attractive.
Because there's we
always talk about this.
We've talked about this many
times on the podcast is that
people say, "Oh, well,
getting getting money,
getting subscription
from drivers is tough".
But the reality is it's not
tough if you deliver them
something value
creating for them.
If you you deliver them
a feature they want,
they'll be happy
to subscribe to it.
It's when they feel that
they're pushing something on
them that they don't want or
they feel like they should be
getting for free.
You know, we have conducted several
research talking to end users,
understanding what are they
willing to pay in vehicle.
You know, looked at
features on demand,
looked at safety and
security, vehicle performance.
So anything that can enhance
their in car experience
and create a more
personalized experience.
If you look at why
Xiaomi is doing so well.
Now they have this
connected ecosystem, right?
They have appliances in the
house that are connected.
Right.
And then you get in a car and they
see all these as connected entities.
It's a continuum of
your digital life.
Right.
Mean, see the appliances are robots
inside your house and the car
is a robot that's
outside your house.
And then, you know, you add
to this concept, the humanoid,
then that becomes a
connected ecosystem, right?
I mean,
again, the ability
for OEMs to make
the life seamlessly
connected for the end
user is what the end
user is looking for.
That's really exciting
examples you mentioned.
And you also made me
think about something,
your last point that
we as an industry,
we don't know what
algorithms are coming next.
We don't know the kinds of
compute requirements coming next.
And so I think it behooves
us and I think it's what Sonatus
is trying to do,
but I think the industry
collectively is trying to do is
we have to provide the infrastructure
for things that are coming next.
So that OEM doesn't ship a vehicle
and the moment they ship it,
they're they have some sort
of handcuffs that prevent them
from delivering the next
exciting innovation,
but that they come with some
flexibility, some headroom,
but not necessarily
only headroom,
but especially flexibility
to deploy things.
And or even models
that are already there,
realizing the models
are going to improve,
the models can be refined.
How can we make sure
they're upgradable
both through OTA but
even through other means.
Our Sonatus AI Director
product, for example,
AI Director, is designed to
allow deployment of models very
easily in a very lightweight
fashion that's easy to do
without the kind of the
heavyweightness that you might
associate with a full OTA.
Because AI models, we
expect and I believe,
could evolve more rapidly,
could evolve more frequently as
data tuning exists.
You're seeing that with
autonomous driving.
You know, autonomous
driving cars,
imagine you consider Tesla or
Riviera or something like that.
Yes.
They have feature updates.
You talked about that earlier.
But they're also doing
continuous updates to the
driving algorithms.
Continuously.
And not only when you
request some update,
rather they're continuously
tuning the parameters.
I believe that from many of these
AI models that will be like that,
where there's continuous
improvements in AI to make them
smarter and make the
models more accurate.
Instead of only relying on
heavier OTAs that maybe happen
every month or every two
months or every six months.
I agree.
And in fact, I'll bring up two
points to your first point.
The high-power SoCs
on ADAS and cockpit,
the growth of high power
SoCs has been significant.
From Qualcomm to NVIDIA
to Horizon Robotics, AMD,
if you look at ten percent
of the Chinese vehicles that get
manufactured today have high
performing associates from
Qualcomm and NVIDIA.
Right.
The NPU engines
compute-intensive AI
workloads are increasing.
And this is key to seeing
agentic AI models use cases
within vehicle like the
virtual personal assistant.
Now you need a single
orchestration AI model
that manages the end
to end life cycle
of AI in cars and this is key
to acceleration towards the
SDV objective like we discussed
at the start of this conversation.
The solutions from Sonatus is critical
to achieving the SDV objective.
The Collector AI,
the AI Director,
Automator AI and
the AI Technician.
It's end to end
lifecycle AI management
tool chain and runtime
environment that provides
secure containerized
runtime environment
for a lot of these deployments.
Yeah. Thank you for saying that.
And we're we've been showing so
many different ways that that
all those products you
mentioned work together.
You know, in some cases,
OEMs may have the data they
need to manage their models and
then we can use our AI Director
product to deploy them.
In other cases, some of our
model vendors are saying,
you know, actually,
I really would love to be able
to use your data to tune the
model on the vehicle.
In some cases, you
know, in some models,
you actually need to optimize
it for the specific vehicle's
weights and tires
and things like that.
So actually,
some of our partners are
wanting to use Collector AI to
gather in-vehicle data for this
specific vehicle to adjust its
parameters to make
it the most accurate.
So So that kind of continuum is
exciting for us and we've had
great response here at the show.
The interesting part about some
of those when we analyzed a
little bit more about
the different solutions,
it's end to end, right?
I mean manages the entire
lifecycle, which is key,
which gives the
ability for OEMs to
collect, analyze,
deploy, train
and you know, monitor,
optimize, and automate.
That's right.
This idea of a closed loop,
it's not like fire and forget.
It's not like you ship
the vehicle and that's it.
The reality is that
understanding it, tuning it,
continuously optimizing it is
going to be a requirement I
think going forward.
And so we're excited to be
able to participate in that.
And I think it's it seems
like the sky's the limit.
The the number of different
applications people keep
suggesting seem seem significant.
Yeah.
So look, we're so excited to have
worked with you on this report.
We highly recommend
people take a look.
It's it's like, is it
forty, fifty pages?
It's some it's very long report,
but really documents the
value proposition and the
potential revenue impact.
There's lots of
dollars... That's correct.
Lots of numerical breakdown that
we couldn't possibly cover here.
So encourage people
to check that out.
I'm so excited to have
you on the the show.
You have such an incredible
wealth of background over your
seventeen years at
Frost and Sullivan.
So really, you for joining us.
Yeah. Thank you for having me.
It was an absolute pleasure.
We had a a lot of fun
doing this white paper with
your team and you're right.
I mean, there are a lot of revenue
impact that we couldn't cover
in this conversation.
It's a very quantitative report.
I mean, looked at
real world use cases.
I mean, it's time to go
beyond pilot cases to to
actual real time implementation
for OEMs to see this value
at an enterprise level.
And that's where we are getting
at with this white paper,
and we want everyone to read it.
It's impactful. I
strongly recommend it.
Look for the show notes.
Take a look at it, and thank
you for coming on the show.
Oh, thanks for having me.
If you like what you're seeing
in today's episode of The
Garage, please like and subscribe
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And we look forward to seeing
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Garage very soon.