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Presented by the American Bar Association’s Law Student Division, the ABA Law Student Podcast covers issues that affect law students, law schools, and recent grads. From finals and graduation to the bar exam and finding a job, this show is your trusted resource for the next big step.
Todd Berger (00:00):
Law school teaches us about the US Constitution, federal statutes and state laws. But with over 575 federally recognized tribes, each with the right to make their own laws and govern themselves, there's a huge body of law that many students might not even be aware of. Tribal law. On today's show, we'll talk with an attorney who has worked both in a law firm serving tribes and as in-house counsel for a tribe offering a unique perspective on the differences between federal Indian law and tribal law and how the two interact. She'll also share her experiences as a Native American lawyer and explain why a foundational understanding of tribal sovereignty is essential for every legal professional, no matter their field. This is the ABA Law student podcast. Hi, Nayeli. Hi, Eve. How are you doing?
Eve Albert (01:02):
We're doing well. How are you, Todd?
Todd Berger (01:04):
I'm good. This semester is, it's moving. It's always that busy point, but it's nice to get a break from everything and it's be here with the two of you and your great interview you have for this podcast. I'm really excited for what we got on store. So how are you doing Nayeli?
Nayeli Diaz (01:21):
I'm doing really well, thank you.
Todd Berger (01:23):
Yeah, well, you were the person who did the interview this week. Super excited to hear what we have in store. I know what the topic is, but our listeners do not. So why don't you let us all in on who we're going to hear from
Nayeli Diaz (01:36):
Today. We're going to hear from Leah Jurss. She was a attorney in-house currently at the Bay Mills Indian community working for the Bay Mills tribe. Before that, she worked in a firm also practicing tribal Indian law, and so today she's going to talk to us a little bit about the differences between tribal law in-house and federal Indian law and hopefully dispel a few myths that people might have about Indian law or any questions so that everybody can hopefully go forth into their career being a little bit more aware and educated of something that is a huge part of the legal community, but rarely I think it's the attention that it deserves.
Todd Berger (02:15):
Absolutely. What interested you in this topic and what interested you in the person you ultimately chose to interview?
Nayeli Diaz (02:24):
Yeah, as I think I've mentioned before, I'm originally from California in Texas and I didn't have a lot of interaction with tribes or native communities while I was there. And when I came to Michigan, I realized how big it was here and I had the opportunity to participate in the Indian Law Clinic that is offered at my school last year. And I found it so fascinating to learn about the differences in the different kinds of law, the breadth of practice that happens in tribes and in relation to tribes. And so when I was thinking about this episode, I really wanted to impart that onto anybody who would be listening because the more that I've learned about it, more fascinating it is. And I get to have conversations with my friends or other attorneys where it kind of comes up in a way that you might not think it does, and you get to educate these people and tell them a little bit more about it. And I think that as a community, me as a Mexican American, I'm like, we always got to look out for each other and make sure that everybody is educated so that we can go forth with that awareness. So for instance, the biggest question is why is it called Indian law? And so I think she gives us a really good answer to that.
Todd Berger (03:29):
Terrific. Well, I found that as well as many other parts of the whole discussion really interesting. So let's get into it.
Nayeli Diaz (03:38):
Thank you for joining us today, Leah. I'm very excited to have you talk a little bit about Indian law today. Can you explain a little bit about why the term Indian law is still used? I think maybe some people might not be aware of that, or even if that is still the correct term terminology.
Leah Jurss (03:53):
So we use the term federal Indian law when we're generally talking about this area of law. It has a long history. It's most concrete to point to Title 25 of the US code, which is where a lot of the laws that Congress passes about native people go. And that title is simply called Indians. And so a lot of the nomenclature of federal Indian law is referring directly to that term. Of course, when you're talking about indigenous people talking about a native person rule of thumb is it's always best to directly identify which tribe they're from first, if possible. But that does lead towards tribal law, which is something different from federal Indian law.
Nayeli Diaz (04:34):
Well, that leads into my next question, which was if you could explain a little bit the difference between federal Indian law and tribal law.
Leah Jurss (04:40):
Sure. So federal Indian law is really about the relationship between tribes in this country and the federal government, and it's governed in a large part by that chapter 25 of the US Code. It also has to do with the treaties that tribes signed, other executive orders policies. It's really focused on the federal government and its relationships with tribes. Now, contrast that with tribal law. Tribal law is the law that each individual tribe is using to govern themselves, their community members, how they're portraying their government to the rest of the country and internationally. And with I think the number is 575, at least federally recognized tribes right now, there's a huge variation in tribal law.
Nayeli Diaz (05:27):
Yeah, that's something that I found really interesting when I did the Indian Law Clinic at my school, was about the differences in how to navigate those laws because I think in law school we are learning mostly about federal law for the most part. And then when I was doing the Indian Law Clinic, you have to essentially learn, each tribe has their own separate rules, their own codes, and so you have to be really specific when you're doing that in researching that you're using the right ones for the right tribe that you're interacting with. And I think that this is important because there are so many tribes as you mentioned. So I feel that it is really common that at some point a lot of people will have to interact with tribes and their laws at some point, whether it's through the federal side or through the tribal side. And so as someone who's worked in a firm and in house for a tribe a little bit, can you tell us about the differences between working for a tribe directly and working outside of one?
Leah Jurss (06:19):
Absolutely. So the issues that are encountered on a daily basis, whether you're working for a law firm that works with Indian tribes, whether you're working in-house for a tribe, which is what my current job is, or really any of the other paths in this Indian law field, so the federal government, state government, national organizations that serve tribes and tribal people, the issues that you might encounter are going to be very much the same, but the way that you help your client resolve those issues is one of the bigger differences between specifically working in a law firm and then working in-house for a tribe. So when I was working, I spent about eight years in a boutique law firm that focused on federal Indian law, focused on tribal law and serving tribes. A lot of my contact on a daily basis was with whichever specific tribe was my client, it was with their in-house legal counsel. And so I developed relationships, strong relationships with the tribes as lawyers converse that with now when I'm working in-house for a tribe, I spend most of my day working with the elected leaders of the tribe, the tribal council, and with the department managers, the heads of various projects and developments that we're working on. And so it's a very wide net of people that I have relationships with in addition to having relationships with the outside legal counsel that I'm hiring to help me on projects and also partners in federal, state and other local governments. Yeah,
Nayeli Diaz (07:56):
That's really interesting. You are dealing with kind of the same people, but in different manners sort of in the experiences that you've had. I think a big question that a lot of non-native people have is what is it like to be a non-native in Indian law or how do you perceive non-natives who are working in Indian law?
Leah Jurss (08:14):
I think to start that question, I just will introduce that I am native, I'm a descendant of the White Earth Tribe, which is a Ojibwe tribe in northern Michigan, but going to law school, completing my undergraduate education, taking some legal courses, and then law school specializing in a native focused law program. And now over a decade into practice, I have come across people from every single background who are effective advocates for Indian country and some of the best advocates that I know are not native, but they have really taken time to learn about not just this area of law, federal Indian law, and have a really good handle on the cases and the laws that apply, but they also take the time to get to know the individual tribal community that they're working with. And so they're not applying this broad background of any other knowledge.
(09:18):
They're really looking to what does this tribal community need from me as a lawyer at this point in time, and how can I go about providing that? And that's exactly the same thing that I do, right? I'm not currently a lawyer for my own tribe, and I have worked for many different tribes, some of which have similar cultural traditions and practices to my tribe, but many that are completely different. And in each case I approach it with what does my tribal client need from me at this time, and what is their cultural background expectations for how I can provide that legal service
Nayeli Diaz (10:00):
As a non-native students or people, attorneys shouldn't be afraid to venture into it. You need all kinds of lawyers and every aspect of the law, something I'm a big proponent of, and obviously we should have more native lawyers in law schools and going out to help their tribe, but we still need all kinds of people helping out.
Leah Jurss (10:20):
Absolutely. Yeah. I'm a very big proponent of getting more native students into law school and working in Indian country, but that is absolutely paired with just wanting more lawyers and more law students to have a baseline understanding of federal Indian law, of tribal sovereignty, of the concept that each of those hundreds and hundreds of tribes have the right to make their own laws and be governed by them. And that's applicable to every single law student sitting in their one L chairs.
Nayeli Diaz (10:56):
Yeah, I didn't realize when I came to Michigan that it was such a big part of Michigan State University College of Law, or really Michigan in general. I wasn't aware of it. And when I did the Indian Law Clinic, that was something that was really interesting to learn and really amazing because I'm a Mexican American and I see a lot of parallels, and I think that it's something that as you're saying, a lot of law students should know about because they're probably going to be interacting with it. And so just to pivot to that a little bit, there are lots of different areas of law that touch federal Indian law and tribal Indian law. For instance, we know iqua is a very big thing in family law, and so anybody who wants to practice family law even outside of a tribe should be aware of Iqua. Correct?
Leah Jurss (11:37):
Yeah, absolutely. The Indian Child Welfare Act, that's kind of situated in that federal Indian law realm. So it is about the relationship between the tribe and the federal government. And no matter where you're practicing in family law, that's going to be something that comes up at some point. And that's sort of something else that made me think of that when you're asking this question. I have practiced for a while, not a long time at this point, but a while, and it is so refreshing when I have either opposing counsel or a judge on the bench that I'm arguing in front of, or even those situations where it's not opposing counsel, but it's another lawyer I'm working with. It is so refreshing when they have some understanding of tribes and federal Indian law, and I don't have to spend 80, 80% of my time getting this very educated, intelligent lawyer up to speed about tribes before we can then even get into, let's talk about this contract, let's talk about this child placement. Let's talk about this land easement issue. So that's the reason I really think federal Indian law, a base level of understanding of tribes is so important for every single law student
Nayeli Diaz (12:50):
And whether it's family law or environmental law or any kind of law, what do you think some classes or some ways that a law student might start to learn about these things, not every school is going to offer everything, but what are some resources that people can look up to turn their head to start becoming aware of Indian law and federal Indian law in all areas of the law?
Leah Jurss (13:12):
So I'm going to start by answering this with the hopes that there are a few college students who are interested in going to law school, listening to this, and to them I'll say, look into your college's, American Indian Studies department or history department and see if you can take a class focused on Native American history. Because so many of the fundamental concepts of federal Indian law and the reason that the world of federal Indian law is the way it is are rooted in history. They're rooted in the treaties that were signed by Native Nations. And so having a base understanding of that does get to a leg up in law school. Now, if we're just in law school, of course, if your school offers a federal Indian law class, which quite a few do offer that one course in federal Indian law, that would be an important one to take if they don't.
(14:01):
And beyond that, some of the other core classes to help you learn about both tribes and many of the legal issues that tribes encounter regularly would be property law because land, land ownership, the status of lands that's held by Indian tribes, you can learn a lot about that in property law. Same goes for family law courses. If you have a great family law instructor, they will hopefully have a unit on the Indian Child Welfare Act. So those would be the two that stick out to me in my mind, beyond just taking courses in law school. However, I would also recommend law students that are interested in either pursuing a career in Indian country or that just understand it's going to be best for them to have a baseline level of understanding of this field would be to look in to see if their law school has a chapter of nsa, the Native American Law Students Association, because attending those meetings and just workshopping and being in conversation with other students that are both interested in Indian law or are indigenous themselves offers a really good level of learning and understanding for law students. Once you get a little bit further in your law school career, you can also look at things like the tribal in-house council has a really good set of resources. Most states have a chapter of a Native American Bar Association that usually welcome law students to participate and start to learn about this field.
Nayeli Diaz (15:44):
Going off of that a little bit, I know that there is a NSA moot court competition that I know not every school is able to do that, but if you're able to look into that at your school, I know some people from my school that did the NSA team a few years ago and they knew nothing about Indian law before doing the competition. They just really like moot court and in it, they kind of fell in love with Indian law. So you never know what's going to spark within you because there's so many parts of it that you could find interesting.
Todd Berger (16:12):
We'll be right back.
Nayeli Diaz (16:22):
Just to go back a little bit for you, did you always know that you wanted to practice Indian law when you went into law school?
Leah Jurss (16:28):
By the time I got to law school, yes, I knew that I wanted to practice Indian law. I did not grow up wanting to be a lawyer, so that was its own whole set of jumps. But once I decided to go to law school, I was specifically looking for schools that could help me learn more about Indian law, and that was the reason that I was in law school and I had the opportunity to receive a bunch of wonderful training, not just in law school, but also the internships and jobs that I sought out during my law school summer. So I spent one summer of law school serving as a court clerk for a tribal court, and I got to see that area of law. And then I spent another summer of law school in Washington DC at one of the large law firms that has a sizable Indian law practice. And I got to see almost a complete flip, another way of practicing Indian law. And that's just sort of continued throughout my career. I've been able to dabble and sample in all of these different spaces, and in each of them, Indian law has been a focus.
Nayeli Diaz (17:34):
I also didn't really know that I wanted to go to law school until a few years before, and I just kind of stumbled into it, and it worked out great seemingly for us, so that's always nice. Have you seen other people throughout your career fall in and out of Indy law? Maybe people you went to law school with who weren't interested in it to begin with, and you saw them gain interest or as with every career, I'm sure people kind of make their way through it a bit.
Leah Jurss (18:00):
Oh, absolutely. Specifically in law school, it seemed like the moment that a student took a chance and decided to enroll in that federal Indian LA course, which as I mentioned at most law schools, it's a one semester course often only offered every other year. So you really have to make an effort in your two L or three L years to enroll in that course. But what I saw was the students who really knew nothing about Indian law or often even tribes before then enrolled in that federal Indian law course and their eyes were opened to how many different areas Indian law touches from family law to construction law to property law, to healthcare law to legislation, and working with political entities and working with local partners. So it's really been fun to watch people who knew nothing all of a sudden fall in love with the area because they see how wide and how many different places there are that touch on Indian law.
Nayeli Diaz (19:00):
Yeah, I think just general advice for any law students is that I know a lot of people come in with very specific ideas of what they want to do, and sometimes that works out, and sometimes you never know what is going to spark an interest and change your path and be something that ends up bringing you a lot of joy. So I always encourage people to take risks and take those classes because I found it so interesting and so rewarding. And so while we're talking about the possible careers that people could find in Indian and Indian country, can you tell us a little bit about what your day-to-day or a day in your life looks like right now in your current job?
Leah Jurss (19:35):
Yeah, absolutely. So one of my favorite parts about working in Indian country is that no day is ever the same, and I generally have absolutely no idea what's about to come into my email inbox or what's going to come on the phone call. So over the course of a day, I can be connecting with international human rights organizations and partners about how to make sure that the rights of the tribe that I'm working for are protected on a global scale. And then the very next moment I'm getting a call from our tribe's chief of police because he wants to get a new canine dog to help the officers and improve community relations. So do you think you could write up some policies to make sure that our dog that we want to have is trained and safe, and then a few minutes later, I'm sitting in a meeting with a huge development corporation working on a multimillion dollar project and needing to make sure that the tax credits are going to go through properly because of our unique nature as an Indian tribe?
(20:45):
It's very hard to what's coming next. And so that's why I've been talking so much in this meeting about every single area of law that you can think of. It's going to intersect at some way with Indian country. And one of the more fun things I've been able to experience as I go along in my career is getting emails and phone calls from my law school classmates who maybe they took the federal Indian law course or maybe they didn't, but I'm now interacting with them as a lawyer for tribe in whichever career path they've chosen, whether that's a criminal defense attorney, whether that's a major corporate transactional attorney. It's so much fun to get to see familiar names and where they're popping up and I'm still interacting with them even though our fields that we've chosen are completely different.
Nayeli Diaz (21:35):
That's really cool that you are the place people know to come to when they need to get more information about this. So it sounds like you do touch criminal and civil law on the daily, right.
Leah Jurss (21:47):
In my current job, don't do a ton of criminal work. And that goes back to some of these really unique cases and precedents in Indian country about how much and when tribes have criminal jurisdiction over individuals. So each tribe that you might encounter is going to have a different calculus and nature of how much criminal law they interact with. However, I have worked for tribes in the past where they do assert criminal jurisdiction and they have a tribal prosecutor's office, they have a tribal defense attorney's office. So you can absolutely encounter both aspects of the law in a daily work.
Nayeli Diaz (22:32):
Certainly sounds like a job that you get easily bored of. You're moving around a lot. And I think that especially as a lot of us are looking for what we want to do after it seems like a job in which if you are always wanting to switch things up and you're always not wanting to stay in the same kind of thing every single day and you can't decide if you want to do real estate or family or whatever, this might be a good option to look into something like this where you can kind of touch all of these things or get familiar with a lot of them all at the same time.
Leah Jurss (23:02):
Absolutely. And if that's how you are feeling as a law student, I would recommend getting more familiar with Indian law and Indian country and seeking out those internships either with a tribe and a tribe's legal department or with a law firm that does a lot of work in Indian country because through those internships or those summer jobs, you're going to start to get a sense of all of the different kinds of work that you can do. As you mentioned, property, law, family law, I even do trademark law because tribal businesses have brands that need to be protected like any other. So I would definitely encourage students to reach out to their networks, to their career services and see if this is a path that might be right for them.
Nayeli Diaz (23:45):
We've talked a little bit about the parts of your job that you really love, but do you have anything in particular that stands out to you throughout your career, a moment that was really interesting, a case that you really enjoyed working on?
Leah Jurss (23:57):
One of my favorite parts of my job has always been working on code drafting and ordinance legislation. In particular, when you work for an Indian tribe, you really get a wider set of creative freedoms when you're drafting a lot because of tribal sovereignty, they have the ability to craft laws to fit their community. And so you get to be so much more creative when you're crafting tribal laws because you can really do exactly what the community needs you to do without some of the constraints that Congress has or that your state legislature might have when they're drafting laws. And so from that, one of my favorite moments, I was in law school when I was working for a tribal court and I was asked to start to draft and come up with a theory of a judicial ethics code, but have it be paired with some of the tribes cultural norms and responsibilities.
(25:01):
And so as part of this, I was able to draw from federal and state judicial codes, but then I was able to also talk to community members, to elders, to people who live here and work here and have been here for a long time to find out what do you want to see in your judicial ethics code? What particular cultural traditions, cultural teachings are relevant for the judges that are sitting on your bench in your tribal court? And so that was just a fantastic pairing of really getting that in depth community knowledge with the more traditional code or rule drafting to make sure things are running smoothly and as they should.
Nayeli Diaz (25:43):
That's really interesting. I know so many people that I'm classmates with who I think would love to get to draft something like that. I have always thought that it's so fascinating the amount of stuff you get to do and that taking into consideration the cultural norms around you is so important and so nice that that's something that in other kinds of law you wouldn't really get to do is look at it in that kind of way. So as we're coming to the end here, is there anything that you would like to leave our listeners with, whether they are a native prospective law student, a native law student, or a non-native student thinking about this? Or maybe this piqued their interest a little bit. What do you want to leave them with?
Leah Jurss (26:22):
I think the biggest thing that I want to leave nearly everyone that I talk with about these types of issues is really understanding that tribes are sovereign governments and tribal members elect their leaders and those leaders get to decide the law for that tribe. And coming to federal Indian law with a respect for those basic principles will go really far. Even if you never take a federal Indian law course, you don't decide to pursue a path in Indian country when you get an email later on in your career from an in-house lawyer with a tribe or from a lawyer that's representing a tribe at a firm, just sort of pausing and remembering that this might not have to follow the guidelines that the state law has set out, or there might be some quirky things that I'm about to learn in this conversation. And just being open to the fact that there are other laws and other ways of doing things, and you're probably going to encounter them when you work with the tribe,
Todd Berger (27:33):
They'll be right back. So I'm excited to get to hear everyone's thoughts about this interview. This is an awesome interview. I learned a tremendous amount. So you had said you had done an Indian law clinic, you in interviewing the professor, what did you learn that you maybe not have known before?
Nayeli Diaz (28:03):
Yeah, I had a really wonderful time talking to Leah. She was so knowledgeable and I think particularly interesting is that breadth of knowledge that we as attorneys maybe should have. I think the law has become really specialized and more than it has been in the past, and people often focus on their one area, but the way in which this kind of law touches on so many other kinds of law I think is something that people should be aware of. Is that something you thought about Eve?
Eve Albert (28:30):
Yeah, absolutely. And that's the main reason I'm glad that you picked this topic. I think that it's something that unless it directly affects you or it is affecting your loved ones, it's not something you think about on the daily. But what I took away most from Leah's interview is how applicable Indian law is, how prevalent it is in the legal field. And it's our job as attorneys and future attorneys to familiarize ourselves with a plethora of different cultures, different areas of law, and do our best to help our clients. And I think this is a perfect example of where that really comes in, making sure that you're doing your homework outside of the normal range of things you practice and approach and doing your due diligence for your client.
Todd Berger (29:19):
Yeah, I was struck honestly by how much I learned as part of it. Now, as the faculty member expert, I know about everything that you guys talk about beforehand, but no, I do learn in every interview for sure. But I really, to be candid with you, I knew very little about the topic even though I've been practicing for a while. And so I thought it was super informative initially, honestly, when I first heard the term Indian law, I was kind of taken aback a little bit, and I knew that the way it was used in the context that I'm sure was professionally, socially, and culturally acceptable, but I was a little bit surprised that we still use that phraseology. So I thought that was really interesting that we still use it and it seems to be kind of broadly accepted within the legal profession as sort of almost like a term of art.
(30:10):
And I thought the distinction between Indian law and tribal law was also incredibly interesting. So I would think that there are a lot of people out there who heard this interview nayeli and just didn't realize the prominence of this area of law and the sheer number of tribes in the United States and the sheer number of issues that come up legally in terms of the tribes in the country, from everything from family law through to different property issues, through criminal law issues, sovereignty issues. So I thought it was just so incredibly informative, and I think both of you probably had a similar experience.
Eve Albert (30:49):
Yeah. I think that I want to, secondly, you just said Todd, I think that the sheer amount of tribes, Leah said 570 something that really goes to show how applicable having this knowledge is because no matter where you're practicing, assuming you're practicing in the us, although other countries have indigenous tribes as well, but assuming you're practicing in the us, there's a good chance that in your years of practice you're going to encounter native people and their issues particular to their tribes. And it is to your advantage and their advantage to have this information, to educate yourself and to really put your best effort forward.
Nayeli Diaz (31:31):
And like you mentioned, Eve, that large amount of tribes that she pointed out, I believe that's just tribes that are federally recognized. There are a lot of tribes that don't have federal recognition, that have the same issues and maybe even have a different set of issues because they're just working in their state and their state acknowledgements. And even I would challenge everybody maybe to look up what the nearest tribe to you is. I'm sure that there are at least one, if not several federally or state recognized tribes that are present around you. And even just if you're somebody who likes looking into how these things come into existence, tribes when they get federal recognition often have to do a lot of produce, a lot of evidence to prove that they have been here for a certain amount of time or that they have existed in a certain kind of way.
(32:14):
And it's interesting to think about the kinds of barriers that creates for these tribes. And then in the laws themselves, we said that the way that the reason that the term Indian laws used is because baked into those very first documents of our nation, and we can't change those unfortunately, maybe. And so it's just kind of how we have to go along. I always have found that very interesting. And I'm curious Eve, because I know that you like the more technical stuff, if you were intrigued by the aspect of getting to draft codes in these tribes, because when I was thinking about that, I thought about you immediately.
Eve Albert (32:48):
First of all, every week I come on this podcast and somebody calls me a nerd in the nicest way possible, and it's enough. No, I'm just kidding. I appreciate you looking out for me. Yeah, I think that that's
Eve Albert (33:02):
A really interesting part of it. I think that a lot of what we encounter in law school is litigation based or trial based, but there are, as a lot of law students know, there are lots of opportunities for people that don't like to public speak for people don't like that, prefer to do the technical work behind it. So I think that when you hear Indian law and you hear something that pertains to interacting with other people, you might immediately be like, well, I know that this isn't of interest to me, but there is a space for every skillset. There's a space for every advantage and disadvantage in not disadvantage every advantage in this area. So I think that I can't think of a single person that wouldn't benefit from having this information based on what we just said.
Todd Berger (33:51):
Yeah, I think one of the things for me, I would think about students was one, the possible jobs in this area, and with as many tribes as there were, I think that it was a possible area for employment that maybe people hadn't really thought about. But at the same time, it seems like you can do some really cool stuff like talking about the drafting and they're not bound by the same sort of requirements under the law that you might be if you were drafting a code in another setting because of sovereignty issues. But just a broad range of practice areas available to somebody who might be practicing in this space, I think could be really interesting for students. Nail, you used a phrase a few times in the interview Indian country, and I thought that was interesting. It's where tribes are. And it kind of ties into something we've talked about earlier in podcast about maybe people move so they can find really meaningful work and that there is sometimes a reason to go to a place you haven't been before to explore new opportunities.
(34:50):
So I thought that is sort of an area of law that offers a lot of opportunities. People may have to move depending on where they are. These tribes are everywhere. But I guess it depends on where the jobs might be. You might have to move to pursue one of them, but for students who are interested in a really unique but diverse area of law that might require that they see a part of the country and go to a place they haven't been before, it's a really great opportunity for students. And one that for the interview, I don't think many people were aware of now, maybe at your school at Michigan State, you have that clinic, which is terrific, but I know a lot of other schools do not. And so this is an opportunity to be exposed to an area of law jobs, future employment, a really fulfilling part of your career that you wouldn't have known about. So this was awesome. Natalie, thanks so much.
Eve Albert (35:36):
And I do want to say one more thing. Remarking what Leah talked about in the interview. She talked about how her native identity played a role in her decision to go to law school, to practice law, and in her current career. And I think that that's something that's a really important takeaway for current law students. I think that a lot of law school is a lot of structure, a lot of learning rules, a lot of learning procedures, but there is still a place for you to embrace your culture. There's still a place for you to educate others and create an environment where you can really use your culture to form what your legal practice is going to look like and form what your career is going to look like. So I think that that extends to natives and non-natives alike. I think that you can use your culture and your background to your advantage, and I think that you'll be helping others by kind of setting your legal career up in that way.
Nayeli Diaz (36:36):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And to go a little bit into what I have experience with is I have had experiences in internships that I've done where I was the only person in the office who spoke another language and who was a different culture. And that, like I said, from where I'm originally from, that's not usually the case. And so when that happens, I got to be the one to say, Hey, this client might seem like they speak English, but they still need the translator because that's not their default. I know as someone who's, my grandparents experience that and they have to go about it in a different way when she's talking about being the one in those spaces to advocate for, not even all the time, just your community. This person that I was interacting with was not a Latino. He was of a completely different background.
(37:25):
But the similarities are always there, and we can be the ones to advocate for each other and for others who have similar experiences, or just to be the first one to speak up and say like, Hey, maybe we should look into that a little bit more. Maybe there's another reason why this is being approached in this way, or why this client may feel that way. So especially, especially we're looking at native and Indian law, there's a lot of history there. And so it's important for those kinds of people to be the attorneys in the room. But there's also importance in having allies and having people who at least have some understanding of it to raise their hand, raise their voice, and say, hold on, let's think about this for a second. Let's look at this from a different perspective. Let's gather some more information. So I think that's really important across the board. I think that's a really wonderful point that you brought out. Absolutely.
Todd Berger (38:13):
Thanks to our guest, Leah Jurss, tribal attorney at Bay Mills Indian community for sharing your experience with all of us today. If you have questions or comments, make sure to share your thoughts with us on the A law student division, socials or thorough a review on Apple or Spotify. And make sure you subscribe to our feed to hear our feature episodes or dig into our back catalog. If you're looking for even more content curated just for you, head over to the a a Law Student division website and become a member. And before we go, we'd like to thank our production partners at Moraine Media and thank you to the ABA law student division for making this show a reality. We'll be back next month with another episode. See then.