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Work like you’re not a parent.
Parent like you don’t work.
What if that whole system is wrong?
This is Full Stack Moms, and we are Mallory Lee and Shannon Curran, two working moms navigating tech careers, parenting, and everything in between. We talk about why the traditional rules of work don’t fit modern parents and how women in tech are doing things differently. Through honest conversations and behind-the-scenes stories, this show explores careers, caregiving, ambition, and the messy reality of having it all, just not all at once.
Connect with Mallory: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mallorylee/
Connect with Shannon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannon-sweeny-curran/
Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius
www.shareyourgenius.com
[00:00:00] Rebecca Grimes: I've had folks that made seven figures, way more than I make under me. Like that is by design. Like my job is to make sure that I'm setting my team up for success. But having to have that conversation with the women and tell them why I'm adjusting their base salaries was an important milestone as well because It's those kind of reminders of like the way that we can show up in the roles that we have to make sure that we're part of the solution and not continuing to perpetuate the problem.
[00:00:26] Mallory Lee: This is Full Stack Moms.
[00:00:28] Shannon Curran: This is not a parenting podcast nor a business podcast, but a place where we talk building careers in tech, raising kids at home, and making it work in public.
[00:00:38] Mallory Lee: Rebecca Grimes, welcome to Full Stack Moms.
[00:00:41] Rebecca Grimes: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here today. I think I commented on your post, and I was like, "Me, me, me, I wanna be here." So, uh, so excited that we got me on the calendar.
[00:00:51] Mallory Lee: I love it. And we just wanna start off getting to know you. So what can you tell us about your family?
[00:00:58] Rebecca Grimes: Well, I currently live in my childhood home with, uh, my husband, um, Shawn, my two kids, Olivia, who is eleven, my son George is ten. We have an eighteen-month-old rescue that is a combination of a pit bull and a golden retriever, so that is a fun combination of never-ending chaos. I also have an eighteen-year-old dog that, um, when we got the foster, that was gonna be our transition dog.
[00:01:29] Rebecca Grimes: And it's been eighteen months, and we're still Buster's still kicking. Bust-Buster's still kicking. my mother lives with me. That's how I ended up in my childhood home, um, after my father passed away. we moved in temporarily, and then it became clear that she was gonna need more full-time help.
[00:01:45] Rebecca Grimes: and my brother actually lives with us as well. And, um, so I have, I have, uh, an in-house ecosystem of support.
[00:01:54] Shannon Curran: Love a full house.
[00:01:56] Rebecca Grimes: It's a full
[00:01:56] Shannon Curran: Multigenerational. I love
[00:01:58] Rebecca Grimes: Yes. And that's why I built out the backyard with my shazebo so that when I needed to get out of the house, I could go to my fully decorated backyard. It has a TV in it, a fan, bug zapper, screened-in netting, comfy couches.
[00:02:17] Rebecca Grimes: So that's, that's my little, "I gotta get outside. Um, you guys stay inside. I'll go outside." It's my escape,
[00:02:26] Mallory Lee: Mommy's
[00:02:26] Shannon Curran: you based, Rebecca?
[00:02:28] Rebecca Grimes: I am based in a suburb of Chicago, and, uh, I've, I've been here for most of my life, so.
[00:02:36] Shannon Curran: Love it.
[00:02:38] Mallory Lee: And what's the latest on Shawn? I haven't talked to you for a while, so I'm,
[00:02:42] Rebecca Grimes: Yeah, I know.
[00:02:43] Mallory Lee: same time as everyone else.
[00:02:44] Rebecca Grimes: it's, fantastic. He was actually just recently promoted. he works for, um, a hospital system. He's one of their system analysts, and he just completed a really big migration project, um, for them across all of their hospital systems here in Chicago. So we're really excited about him.
[00:03:00] Rebecca Grimes: But the, the great part about his work and my work is that he has a clock in and a clock out. And so I can confidently rely on him to pick the kids up from jujitsu or theater, even if my evenings, are busy and filled working,
[00:03:15] Mallory Lee: And your evenings often are because you have a huge job. You're a CRO. Tell us about that.
[00:03:22] Rebecca Grimes: so I work for a Portland-based company, ShareID. Um, this is everything that combines my value ecosystem, the culture, as well as, um, doing great work with great people. Uh, we are the back-end verification solution for many of the world's most admired brands. What that means is when you see an offer for a student discount program or a, um, hometown heroes honoring program, uh, we, uh, we-- we're the back end for that.
[00:03:55] Rebecca Grimes: And so I just was on site with one of my favorite retailers this week for a full six-hour workshop, thinking about the, the year ahead and how we could support their growth. And they own the data, and that's one of the best parts. I-- You know, Mallory, you and I met working at Cheetah Digital together, and, you know, i-in all of that ecosystem, I've been talking to the world's largest brands, but what we get the opportunity to do is, is work with them on how to, how to curate the data that empowers them to drive these deeper emotional loyalty connections with their consumers.
[00:04:26] Rebecca Grimes: And that is right up my alley. I get thousands of emails a week from brands that I maybe shopped with once or never even shopped with. And, this work that we do is really about connecting those two folks, the brand to a new, um, a new customer, and then working through lifecycle marketing on how we take the data that we acquire and marry that with their purchase behavior to really drive, a long time relationship with that consumer.
[00:04:53] Rebecca Grimes: And it's evidenced by, um, all of the brands that we work with that this is something that works really well. So before I go on, though, my role as CRO is a bit different than traditional CRO. So I actually own all of the revenue team. So I own sales, customer success, marketing, and revenue operations. And, I sign up for the hard.
[00:05:12] Rebecca Grimes: This is my third role in this capacity of leading all of these accountable functions. The buck ultimately stops with me, but I wouldn't have it any other way. and we can get into the why behind that. But, um, for me, just the idea that we just align without finger-pointing around, you did this. We s-- You know, we shouldn't have closed this deal.
[00:05:34] Rebecca Grimes: This was bad revenue. Like, we have zero tolerance for that in my organization. And what we have done over the last two years has just really, like unlocked the potential of this team to do great work together. And so we're one revenue team. Um, and that actually extends beyond just the eighty folks that I'm responsible for, but into the rest of the organization, um, as we operate as one revenue team.
[00:05:55] Rebecca Grimes: And it's my, my dream job working for a female CR-- a CEO that I've had the honor and privilege of working with before. Um, and I, I've never been happier with, uh, with the way that I have to show up every day, and spend ten, twelve, fourteen hours, however long it takes to do the work that I do.
[00:06:13] Mallory Lee: I love your story of evolving from CMO to CRO and truly being accountable for all of the revenue. I think that, uh, that's like the definition of what a CRO should be. I don't think that we always find that to be the case. And so you're one of my favorite case studies of making that come true.
[00:06:33] Mallory Lee: And it's even better because I know you love it. You know, it's not that you're, you're not like reluctant to manage CS. You're like, "Yeah, bring it to me. I want it to all flow
[00:06:44] Mallory Lee: and work
[00:06:45] Rebecca Grimes: get my hands on it. Like, I wanna understand the account strategy and, and how we're working alongside them to define success criteria. And I think, you know, for me to have stepped into this job, it was really important for me to do these jobs separately before I assumed responsibility.
[00:07:01] Rebecca Grimes: And I think that that's where some companies just, just put marketing under the sales head or put, you know, sales under the marketing head. And then there's this CX island over here that's like, "We need love, too. We, we wanna make sure you close good revenue that's gonna be sticky and supports our GRR and NRR targets."
[00:07:18] Rebecca Grimes: And so for me, um, I can put any hat on at any given moment of time. I mean, my RevOps hat, like I've gotten a little further. I've got a fantastic RevOps partner that I've
[00:07:29] Shannon Curran: That's hard to keep that hat fresh, you know? That's a
[00:07:31] Rebecca Grimes: I, I-- every time I get a, I get an email or, or somebody catches me on an inbound call, I'm like, "I don't actually make any of those decisions.
[00:07:41] Rebecca Grimes: You wanna talk to Kara on my team because I literally don't make any decisions. I just approve the decisions at the end. Um, and I trust my team explicitly to make the right decisions." So,
[00:07:52] Shannon Curran: That's awesome. Rebecca, it's so interesting 'cause I often am ... So I'm a fractional CMO, um, and I'm often hired by a CRO that is really just a salesperson, like every time. And I do solve some of the issue of, like, they don't have marketing acumen, so they bring me in to, like, help them sh- show them, like, what marketing should look like and how to build it out and to be the coach for the team and all this stuff.
[00:08:14] Shannon Curran: But it's interesting. Number one, you very rare you see a CRO that's a woman. Number two, very rare, rare you see the CMO to CRO transition. So this is like, is this something you always knew you wanted? Like, is
[00:08:25] Rebecca Grimes: isn't. No. Ugh.
[00:08:29] Shannon Curran: to hear how you got here.
[00:08:30] Rebecca Grimes: So I, I started, uh, at a company, and they were going through this massive transformation of redefining, um, the move from being, servicing one industry and needing to reinvent the entire company because it had become commoditized. And so I rebuilt the go-to-market strategy, the ICP, the target account list.
[00:08:50] Rebecca Grimes: You know, I did all of that in my capacity of, you know, of leading marketing. And then I saw this sales team, um, not quite click, and we were cycling through AEs and leaders. And so about halfway through my five years with them, I said, "I, I want to go figure this out. Like, I really want to go figure this out."
[00:09:10] Rebecca Grimes: I talked to the newly hired, um, sales leader, Jim, and we sat down over lunch, and I was like, "I want to figure this out with you. I, I think that there's a bigger opportunity for us to grow faster, and I think my work is better done, you know, sitting with you and learning the ropes, but also, you know, just thinking about the messaging and how it resonates."
[00:09:29] Rebecca Grimes: And I got over there, and I had this like, oh, no moment right at the beginning where I'm like looking at the leads that are MQL, that are sales ready, and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, this is an intern at one of the brands that we're targeting. Like, this isn't an MQL. Like, they're just trying to become smarter."
[00:09:50] Rebecca Grimes: And so I just had this moment where I'm like, our scoring model is wrong. our level of the buyers that we've identified just are not the right ones. And we needed to put more, more emphasis on the working relationship between our two teams and focus on quality over quantity. Because back then, we're talking, you know, almost fifteen years ago, that's when everybody was like, "Let me see the board metrics in a scorecard of like MQLs and vi-- website visitors and how many Twitter followers, uh, we've grown
[00:10:18] Shannon Curran: my favorite. That's my favorite one. How many eyeballs?
[00:10:21] Rebecca Grimes: and, and, and I was just like, oh my gosh, like, there's so much noise that we're distracting the sales team with, and I was part of that problem. Like, it, it wasn't
[00:10:29] Rebecca Grimes: until, until I moved into that capacity. And then I also had this very real realization that the way that we market ourselves externally is not the way that we talk to prospects.
[00:10:40] Rebecca Grimes: And that, that light bulb moment just really-- like, I was a PMM, you know, originally, like creating the content to go engage with these customers and buyers, and I wasn't close enough to the customer to really understand their language, the nuances, the different buyer personas, and the way that we needed to be thoughtful about engaging with them.
[00:10:58] Rebecca Grimes: So for me, I I just fell in love with the, uh, the challenge of taking somebody through the funnel and even pushing them into the funnel that I built out my own BDR team, I had solutions consulting. I was just like, "We are gonna figure this out." And we started landing some of the world's fan- most fantastic brands, and I was like, "We got this figured out."
[00:11:21] Rebecca Grimes: And, uh, and then I got pregnant. And, um, you know, things were right, starting to
[00:11:27] Rebecca Grimes: click and, you know, I, I am a cancer survivor. I had cancer when I was 30, non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. I am 19 years, uh, coming up on 19 years in remission. So for me, like, my 30s were spent, like, fighting for my life, and my friends were getting married and having kids.
[00:11:45] Rebecca Grimes: And so, um, so, you know, I, I didn't meet my, my partner until I was, you know, mid-30s, my husband Shawn. And then we always knew that it was gonna be challenging to have kids, so we immediately started IVF after we got married, and it was a difficult process. And, the funny thing is, I, I remember after, uh, a, a chemical pregnancy, which, as you know, is like you're pregnant for a minute, but it doesn't really, like, stick.
[00:12:11] Rebecca Grimes: And so your HCG shows, like, you might be pregnant, and then it, like, immediately drops off and, um... And so after that, like, I was just devastated, and I was talking to my doctor, and he was a very, like, matter-of-fact doctor, which is why I liked him. He was like, "I'm gonna tell you like it is." And he's like, "I have one frozen embryo from all the attempts that we've done.
[00:12:29] Rebecca Grimes: That could be your baby. Why, why don't we just put that in you?" And I'm like, "Oh, because, like, I'm f- you know, they're frozen in time, and I might save that one, so I could have more children." He's like, "Can we just get you one baby first? Like, let's just focus on the first baby." And that was my daughter, Olivia, um, that was in his freezer at Northwestern Downtown.
[00:12:48] Rebecca Grimes: And, um, I d- I have the funniest story. Um, so, like, you're not supposed to... Uh, when you go through IVF, you're not supposed to, like, test at home. Um, you're supposed to wait patiently
[00:12:58] Shannon Curran: Everyone does.
[00:12:59] Rebecca Grimes: the blood tests. And so I'm like, "I have no patience." Like, I just have no patience. And so I took, you know, I took the at-home pregnancy test.
[00:13:07] Rebecca Grimes: didn't see anything. I, like, threw it across the room and started crying. My husband's like, "It's, it's not positive. You're testing too early. Like, they told you not to test at home." And, um, and he went and retrieved it, and it had, like, the slightest little line in it. And I was like, " that's the meanest thing you're doing to me right now." And he's like, "Come look at this again." And I was like... Then obsessively like, "Okay, now let's go get all the tests." Like all the women who go through this is. Like, we're gonna go get the digital and all the things and Um, you know, and then like, well, it's not real because I had this before, but then it turned into not be a, you know.
[00:13:42] Rebecca Grimes: And so anyway, we got through that pregnancy. It was amazing. Um, my daughter was stubborn and breech, and so I ended up in a C-section. and I was working all through my IVF, so I was going on the road talking to brands and doing shots. And because when you do also-- when you do a frozen transfer, you also got to do these progesterone shots in your butt, and they are painful.
[00:14:06] Rebecca Grimes: And I'm on the road without my husband helping, and so I'm, like, stabbing myself every day for four months while I'm on the road until, you know, until, uh, we got into the safe zone, and I could announce that I was pregnant. it was this, like, fantastic moment, and then I was like, "I am always going to be a leader inside an organization."
[00:14:25] Rebecca Grimes: And so, like, my husband and I, I always talk that, like, his job is massively important, as is mine, but if push came to shove and we needed, you know, a parent to be at home, it would be him. And I love that we had that conversation early on because he is not any less ambitious than me. But for me, this was really important.
[00:14:45] Rebecca Grimes: I never saw myself as a full-time stay-at-home mom. As much as I loved my children, there is this piece of me that needs to show up every day. I've never done fractional work. Like, I want the team. I want to sit here with a team and create future leaders in other organizations and watch them grow and get promoted and things like that.
[00:15:03] Rebecca Grimes: And so, um, so I had my, I had my daughter and, um, unfortunately at the time, the company only, offered six weeks of sixty percent first week unpaid, like traditional. Um, but I had a cesarean, and my doctor's like, "You're not..." Yeah, my doctor's like, "You're not going back to work after, after six weeks."
[00:15:21] Rebecca Grimes: Like, "I won't even clear you till eight weeks." and so I took those last two weeks as unpaid, um, like, as the original of the conversation, and then it got to a point where I'm like, "I just got to go back to work." So I went back to work at six months or six weeks, and I started commuting downtown again on a train and pumping and doing all of the things that, like, um, there wasn't space where I literally jumped right in.
[00:15:41] Rebecca Grimes: There was really no transition for me. And, um, and that came with a lot of guilt, quite honestly. Like, those, those moments were so precious, and looking back, I probably would have done things differently. I probably would have taken the full twelve weeks, even if they were unpaid, and figured out how to, how to do that.
[00:15:58] Rebecca Grimes: And, you know, the, the, the pumping put so much stress on me of trying to figure out how to work that in, too. And we didn't have, like, a real place at my job, and so it was, like, a closet in the beginning. And I'm like
[00:16:09] Rebecca Grimes: People are next, like there was no bath. Like, thankfully, I didn't have to do that, but, like, people go to the fridge to, like, grab a soda, and I'm in, like, the closet right next to it with the noise.
[00:16:18] Rebecca Grimes: And, and so anyway, I had my daughter and went back to work. We then closed the largest deal the company had ever seen, and, and I just was so conflicted 'cause I'm like, "I love this work that I do, but also I love being a mom, a new mom, and, um, but I also want another baby." Like, there were all of these emotions that were going through my head.
[00:16:34] Rebecca Grimes: and so as soon as I got cleared, I showed up at the doctor's office with my daughter in tow, and I'm like, "Look what you did. I want another one." And he was like,
[00:16:43] Rebecca Grimes: can we just, like, let your body heal and relax?" I'm like, "No. Like, the clock is ticking. I'm about to turn 40. My eggs are just getting older by the second.
[00:16:51] Rebecca Grimes: Like, we have to do this."
[00:16:52] Rebecca Grimes: And,
[00:16:53] Shannon Curran: say.
[00:16:55] Rebecca Grimes: I know, like, right? Like, I'm losing them by the minute. Like, help me.
[00:17:00] Shannon Curran: There's a finite amount of eggs. I feel like it's this crazy thing that like you're born with all of them and you don't get more. I'm like, "I hate this."
[00:17:07] Rebecca Grimes: I know. I know. I know. And, like, we used the one that I had on ice. And so for me, I was like, it took so long to have my daughter. I'm like, we gotta, we gotta get going again because, you know, I, I don't have time. And so, like, you know, there was this race again and, I don't know what happened with that next cycle that I did, but I had 10 embryos that made it to day three, and I'd never had any embryos that, like, felt like they were gonna make it to day five, and they were always, like, day three transfers because they weren't great eggs and, uh, uh, embryos.
[00:17:37] Rebecca Grimes: And so when we got to day f- five, they were like, "We've still got eight." And I'm like, "What?"
[00:17:44] Shannon Curran: Your daughter gave them a pep talk
[00:17:46] Shannon Curran: while she was in there. She's like, "Hey guys,
[00:17:47] Rebecca Grimes: need a sibling. Get it going." Um, but, uh, but then it took on the first try, and we had my son George, and I had two 14 months apart in diapers. And I was like, " Okay, I'm now 40. We're done."
[00:18:02] Rebecca Grimes: Like, I, I would, you know, I would love another one, but man, those two with a full-time job and traveling, they kept me on my toes. But that is the moment that I realized I need to have a community. And so we, you know, my in-laws, we moved them, retired my, um, my mother-in-law, and she took care of the kids, and then we eventually retired my mom, and she took care of the kids.
[00:18:23] Rebecca Grimes: We alternated between the houses. And then I was like, I need to create some friends so, like, they could get them to school and pick up from school. And then I found this amazing woman, Sarah, and her son and my kids are best friends. They're like siblings. And Sarah, to this day, is still the person I rely on that picks my kids up and takes them to school when I'm traveling, and they're in theater together.
[00:18:44] Rebecca Grimes: So she's like, "I got theater this week just to, you know, to take care of one less thing off my plate." And it's been, like, such a reminder that I can't do it all I wish I could. I'd like to think that I can, but I physically can't. And I need to rely on people, and I need to be vulnerable with them and ask for help, and that's such a hard thing for me to do.
[00:19:04] Rebecca Grimes: Um, because I think just naturally, I would imagine both of you are, like, overachievers. Like, " I got this. I can fig- I, I can be five places at once. That's not a
[00:19:13] Rebecca Grimes: problem." Nah.
[00:19:15] Shannon Curran: us.
[00:19:17] Rebecca Grimes: But for me, like, you know, I just, I just had to take that step back and be like, "I need help, and who are gonna be my people that are gonna help me?"
[00:19:24] Rebecca Grimes: And I was so fortunate to find them,
[00:19:26] Mallory Lee: we say a lot that you can have it all, but maybe just not all at once.
[00:19:32] Mallory Lee: the other thing that you're making me think about is like, maybe you can have it all, but you can't do it all, period. And so you have to figure out who is gonna help here. It's, it's your partner, it's your parents, it's your neighbor.
[00:19:46] Mallory Lee: Like, you have to have that sort of village around you. And, um, a couple years ago, I actually wrote down every single person that was like in our village who like helped to take care of the boys, and it was 21 people
[00:20:02] Mallory Lee: on a regular
[00:20:03] Rebecca Grimes: basis I could probably write out that, that same amount of humans that have helped me
[00:20:08] Mallory Lee: Yeah, that's so cool to just think it through. But I mean, I noticed that, Rebecca, from the moment that I met you, which is probably what? 10... Not 10 years ago,
[00:20:21] Rebecca Grimes: Probably like
[00:20:21] Mallory Lee: 10 years
[00:20:22] Rebecca Grimes: Eight, eight, nine, something like that, yeah.
[00:20:25] Mallory Lee: Yeah, it just stood out to me that you had two kids and you were taking care of way more than just your two kids.
[00:20:35] Mallory Lee: Like, your parents have supported you and helped with the childcare and stuff, but you have also been such a huge support for your parents and Shawn's parents. And so that has stood out to me a lot as well. It's like she's not just a mom, she's like taking care of everybody. And, and the way that you manage your team, you're taking care of them too.
[00:20:58] Mallory Lee: So I've just always like, that stuck with me the way that I, I've seen you take care of just everybody that's in your circle. So
[00:21:06] Mallory Lee: you
[00:21:06] Mallory Lee: do a, a great job.
[00:21:08] Rebecca Grimes: Thank you. It's also, um, it's also one of the reasons why I, I work so hard, is because I, I had children later in life. The idea that, I might be retiring when they're graduating from college is like, what? And, uh, and then the idea that they might have to support me financially, which is, you know, is just...
[00:21:28] Rebecca Grimes: It's a different, it's a different animal, right? Like, I was able to buy a home when I was twenty-one, twenty-two, and so, like, I, I'm just intentional about the way that we think about retirement, and it's, it's very different than I think- my parents and even, you know, my in-laws had opportunities to even think about retirement.
[00:21:45] Rebecca Grimes: And so for me, I just don't want there to be any burden on, on my children, and I wanna make sure that they also have something, We own two homes, and so, like, I have two kids. One of you will each get a home, and if you wanna live there, you can, or if you wanna sell it, you can, or keep it as investment property.
[00:22:01] Rebecca Grimes: But, like, those things are just different, um, priorities than I envisioned having to deal with at this chapter of my life and, you know, the full circle moment of taking care of your parents. Um, none of my, you know, my in-laws and my mother, my, um, my dad's passed, but my mother, you know, they're, they're not driving.
[00:22:21] Rebecca Grimes: They're, they're, you know, they're completely dependent on us for groceries and prescriptions and, and everything. And it just really taught me that, like, I don't want to do this. Not that, like, I don't enjoy and, and have any regrets for the way that I need to show up, but I just... It's hard, and I wanna make the future generations have it easier, at least with my kids,
[00:22:47] Mallory Lee: Yeah.
[00:22:49] Shannon Curran: up to them. I, I don't want to be, it's not that, like, I don't support it and having it be through regrets. Mm-hmm. But I think the more it is Yeah. It's so interesting. My parents are pretty young, and so I actually have, like, an interesting... People often ask me, they're like, "Oh, does your par- do your parents watch the kids?"
[00:23:03] Shannon Curran: I'm like, "My parents still work they, and my dad is, like... And it's funny, 61 is ver- now is, like, f- or 62. Sorry, guys, if you're listening. my dad told me he stopped listening just in case I wanted to fabricate stories, I, so that I could be able to.
[00:23:17] Rebecca Grimes: Oh my gosh.
[00:23:18] Shannon Curran: He goes, he goes, "For storytelling capabilities." He's like, "'Cause, you know, the best podcasters, you know they embellish." And he's like, "I didn't want you to feel like I..." I'm sorry.
[00:23:27] Shannon Curran: And
[00:23:27] Rebecca Grimes: Oh, that's amazing.
[00:23:29] Rebecca Grimes: Oh my
[00:23:30] Shannon Curran: and he's like, "But
[00:23:31] Shannon Curran: then I listened to a few episodes." He's like, "You really do tell the truth, huh?"
[00:23:34] Shannon Curran: I'm like, "I do, Dad. Yeah. There's enough going on that I, that you don't need to listen to me lie." I was like, "Yeah, I tell the truth." It was so funny. I was so funny. shout-out, Dad, if you've made it back. But I, uh, it's very interesting 'cause my dad's, like, you know, 61 now, too, is like, you know, you hope that, like, people are living into their 80s and 90s, you hope, right?
[00:23:53] Shannon Curran: Like, none of my grandparents made it to 80. and my dad's like, "I kind of feel like I need to work for at least 10 years." He's like, "What else would I do?" And I'm like, "I don't know." Like, it j- he feels very young still, right? Like, that's an interesting, like, and they're, they've had their own health things.
[00:24:06] Shannon Curran: They're doing really well now. But I think it's, like, an interesting, scenarios, right? Where if you are taking care of your parents while you're taking care of your kids, or your parents are not at a place to be able to help take care of your kids. Like, my mom was working 4/10s so that she could take one day off a week to watch my nieces.
[00:24:22] Shannon Curran: Those are, that's long days. and Like, for my mom to, and she was using all her vacation time to be able to watch the kids. And, but she loves it, and she doesn't wanna miss it, right? Like, my mom had her last day, her last Thursday with my daughter this week because my daughter starts daycare on Monday. And she's like, she was like, "I wouldn't ever wanna miss this," right?
[00:24:45] Shannon Curran: Like, "I want to do this." But she didn't have the capacity to do it full time, right? Like, there's no, and I never would ever expect that, right? And everyone just has such different circumstances coming into being a parent. too. Like, I think often, like, I wanted to have kids a little earlier than I did, and we struggled for a little while to have them.
[00:25:02] Shannon Curran: And, but I think I'm like, financially, I was like, in a way better spot when I ended up having them, right? Than I- if I had had them at 30, which is what I wanted, right? 29, 30. and so benefits to that, right? So it's like, I don't know. It's like you kind of just have to trust the timing, 'cause it's what you got.
[00:25:19] Shannon Curran: It's what was given to you, you know?
[00:25:20] Rebecca Grimes: And as much as we wanna, like, control the circumstances and the situation, like it, it never works the way that we expect it to work. And, you know, Mal, I remember you g-going and like, "I've hired an au pair. Um, she's gonna come live with us." And I was like, "Tell me more. What does that mean? Do I need an au pair?"
[00:25:40] Rebecca Grimes: and then I started researching it, and I was like, well, how, how would the two parent-- the two grandmothers fit into the picture if I brought in an au pair? And, I appreciated, um, you know, Mallory, just like the way that you thought about like your different life chapters of like, I, I wanna be a stay-at-home mom, but I also, I also draw into like doing the work and, and so what is my, what is my circumstances need, need to be in order for me to have it all and do all the things?
[00:26:07] Rebecca Grimes: And it's not ever what you expect it to be at the beginning when you're like, "This is what it's gonna look like." But I do wanna share something because,
[00:26:14] Rebecca Grimes: Margaret's episode. she had mentioned and then said, "Fact check me on this." And of course, I was like, "I'm gonna go fact check you because if this is real,
[00:26:21] Rebecca Grimes: I'm even more pissed." Um, and so she had talked about that the wage gap, is punitive to women who have children and not for men.
[00:26:32] Rebecca Grimes: And in fact, men actually like benefit from becoming a parent, um, financially. And I was like, "That cannot be true." It is. So let me tell you what I found. So, um, there is something called the motherhood penalty, and it says, uh, according to a US Census Bureau, so this isn't like-- this is real stats. Mothers' earnings fall by an average of twelve percent in the two years surrounding a baby's birth. Other research suggests it drops by roughly seventeen percent in the birth year, with first-time mothers experiencing a thirty percent drop in pay that can take up to seven to ten years to recover from.
[00:27:13] Shannon Curran: point, that one. Because you can understand that it would be, if just in the year you're having a baby, you make less money. Okay. Like, I could be like, "All right, that makes sense." But the fact of how long it takes to recover that setback is so pain... Like, the amount of women that probably would take the year off that they had a baby if they didn't take 10 years to get back to where they were.
[00:27:38] Rebecca Grimes: conversely, becoming a father often has a positive impact on a man's earning potential, with data suggesting that the average man earns a pay bump of six to twenty percent when he becomes a father.
[00:27:54] Mallory Lee: Wow.
[00:27:55] Rebecca Grimes: Keep--
[00:27:56] Shannon Curran: Rebecca.
[00:27:57] Rebecca Grimes: Let's keep going.
[00:28:00] Rebecca Grimes: So
[00:28:01] Shannon Curran: Sorry, I had to, had to.
[00:28:03] Rebecca Grimes: mean, that, that must be it. Like, how, how else would that explain that you get a bonus and, and, and more favorable wage adjustments after becoming a father? But then the last thing was, there is no wage penalty. In fact, working fathers tend to take substantially more than men with no children under eighteen.
[00:28:23] Rebecca Grimes: So it is actually financially advantageous to have a family because the workplace will pay you more as a man and punitive for women. you know, I wanted to mention that because, A, it's just disappointing. Like, clearly it starts with women doing better in positions of authority and, and influence and, and leadership.
[00:28:46] Rebecca Grimes: Um, I was fortunate that this, this did not impact me in that way. But it doesn't surprise me now that I've read the data and done more research on it that why this is real. There-- You know, we've got to Be the one that like when there's a sick child, we've got to leave work early, and so we're seen as less reliable.
[00:29:03] Rebecca Grimes: And we're ones by default where we've got to like go, do the extra things, doctor's appointments, you know, just school registrations, parent-teacher conferences. Like, there's this natural assumption that women are gonna do all of those things, and they're gonna be less reliable, and we're gonna get less productivity out of them and, But the inverse is, is, is seen for men, that they're like, "Good job, you're creating a family. Let me give you more money to make sure that your family is taken care of." Like the... And, and with the number of single mothers that are also then punitively affected by this without a partner who could counterbalance the, th-the, the penalty that mothers feel financially, like the single mothers that, that get hit on both angles.
[00:29:45] Rebecca Grimes: I don't have a partner to replace some of that income, and it falls squarely on me to, to do all the work, and I'm getting lower pay at the same time than my male counterparts, um, who have children. Like the, the whole thing just really surprised me, um, but reminded me of the work that is still to be done.
[00:30:03] Rebecca Grimes: And it honestly starts with all of us, in positions of influence to say, "This is not okay." I can share a story of when I started at an organization and I looked at the sales compensation of the folks on the team. And,
[00:30:20] Mallory Lee: little disparity going on
[00:30:22] Rebecca Grimes: was. There was not a single female on the team that made the same as a male on the team with the same quota.
[00:30:29] Rebecca Grimes: And I was like, "How does this happen?" Well, men negotiate more frequently than women. And also,
[00:30:36] Rebecca Grimes: you know, depending on if you're hiring somebody you've worked for before, and I'm gonna be more favorable as part of that, whatever that looks like. And so right or wrong, I've adopted a everybody gets paid the same.
[00:30:48] Rebecca Grimes: I don't care. You cannot negotiate this. When we're hiring a new salesperson, it's very clear this is the f- this is the base, this is the on tar-target earnings, these are the accelerators. The way that you get rewarded for over-performance is through things like me sponsoring you to go to an event, me investing in additional coaching to accelerate your growth and development.
[00:31:07] Rebecca Grimes: And so like,
[00:31:08] Rebecca Grimes: I, you
[00:31:08] Shannon Curran: Sell more stuff, make more
[00:31:09] Rebecca Grimes: yes, sell
[00:31:10] Rebecca Grimes: more stuff, also build the accelerators, endless accelerators. I've had folks that made seven figures, way more than I make under me. Like that is by design. Like my job is to make sure that I'm setting my team up for success. But I also, like having to have that conversation with the women and tell them why I'm adjusting their base salaries was an important milestone as well because I was like, "You need to ask these questions the next time you join an organization.
[00:31:38] Rebecca Grimes: Tell me about your compensation strategy." You know? And so it's, it's those kind of reminders of like the way that we can show up in the roles that we have to make sure that we're part of the solution and not continuing to perpetuate the problem.
[00:31:51] Mallory Lee: Yeah, I love that you did that. Shannon, you made the joke of like, "I have more mouths to feed," but I think that comes from a place of reality. And, you know, I've, I've seen just like little movies and stuff where the man walks into the boss's office and he's like, "I've got a kid coming. I've got more mouths to feed," like, "I need a raise."
[00:32:14] Mallory Lee: And, you know, I do think that it is also somewhat well-known that men are more comfortable coming forward and asking for a raise, and women are more reactive and we're like hoping. We sit and wait and hope that we're gonna get a raise. And I think that that's gotta play a part in the way that this motherhood penalty and fatherhood bonus work together.
[00:32:41] Mallory Lee: And so it's not just informing people of the problem, and it's not just doing our part to equalize it where we can, but I think it's also trying to find ways to give women the confidence to do something and speak up and ask for things. And I, you know, I'm not great at it either, but I think that that has to be part of the solution to get past the trend of where we are.
[00:33:08] Shannon Curran: I want to read you something that was sent to me today, May 1st. So I have someone that works for me now, So that means they know how much money I make, they know how much I close on my deals. They know, like, you know, whatever. My business coaches are really big on, like, "Shannon, this is your market value."
[00:33:24] Shannon Curran: Like, and also when you work as fractional, you are a salesperson. That's what I am now. Like, I sell, right? Like, I have a sales process, I have all those things. I have a product I sell. It just happens to be me. the person that works for me has been, like, kind of watching my business for the last little bit, and she's been trying to solve, like, a an operational issue I have, which is, like, everything, 'cause I'm a disaster.
[00:33:43] Shannon Curran: Um, and so, which is why I need someone to work for me. And she sent me a Slack this morning that said, uh, she was, like, in a community trying to, like, figure out something and no one could figure it out, so she figured something out. It's, like, something operational. And she goes, "You know what? I got all ballsy and asked for a raise."
[00:34:01] Shannon Curran: She, like, went to her boss and was like ... 'Cause they, she gets paid through, like, an agency, right? So I don't, I'm not the one that pays her. She goes, "And I got it." She goes, "Way to be a, way to be a badass influence to me. I've never had the courage before until I worked with you."
[00:34:15] Shannon Curran: and I think that sometimes it's hard to see your influence. Like, Rebecca, you have 80 people that work directly for you right now. Like, that's not even the people that see you lead, that are w- that you've managed before. And I think everyday about how grateful I am to have gotten to this point in my career where I have real influence on the way that people are going to build their lives.
[00:34:38] Shannon Curran: Like, whether I like it or not, like, you can't ignore it, right? Like, it is true.
[00:34:42] Mallory Lee: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:44] Shannon Curran: I think Margaret said this in our last episode. You can't ... It's really hard to do something until you can s- until you see it,
[00:34:50] Shannon Curran: right? And I've actually been in organizations where I was open about how much money I made, and found out that someone else with the same title as me made $60,000 less than me because I negotiated on my way in and they did not.
[00:35:05] Shannon Curran: And that told me a lot about the values of the organization. I was like, "You didn't right-size that when I came in and reset the market?" Like, what I did is I reset the market, right? I said, like, "Now directors are worth X," right? Because that's what it took to get me. So she should also be paid that, right?
[00:35:21] Shannon Curran: And I think there's something where I would like to say I'm not good at it. I'm actually a pain in the ass about it. I am, like, very
[00:35:30] Rebecca Grimes: Yes.
[00:35:31] Mallory Lee: okay to
[00:35:31] Shannon Curran: on y-
[00:35:31] Mallory Lee: you're good at things.
[00:35:33] Shannon Curran: I don't ... I'm a brat. I'm a brat about it because I think there is ... And it's not for me. It's like, but also sometimes there's this thing where people want to negotiate forever, and it's like, "Guys, this is the market rate for this role."
[00:35:43] Shannon Curran: Like, we pay this role this because that's what the market has established. Like, you know, it is what it is, right? Like, if you're paid differently, it's a different job, right? That's probably what you'd have to say, Rebecca. If, like, the comp structure's different, then it's ... then you're not an AE anymore.
[00:35:55] Shannon Curran: You're a, I don't know, an AM, or you're a senior AE. Like, and this is what that job comes with, right? And trying to take the emotion out of it of, like, not just 'cause you asked, but because this is the market rate for what this job is, right?
[00:36:08] Shannon Curran: Like you were saying, Rebecca, about your retirement. Like, you take 10 years to make back what you were making at 10 years ago. That's 10 years of compound interest you don't have, right? So it's a system that needs yelling at, which is what I, you know, my what I do all the time. Oh.
[00:36:25] Rebecca Grimes: Well, I mean, it isn't just about like the package, like it's the total package. Like I left an organization and, um, one of my peers left a-around the same time as me, and he's like: "What are you doing with your options?" And I was like: "Well, uh, you know, I'm unclear." He had way more options than me, and I was hired before him.
[00:36:44] Rebecca Grimes: And I was like: "Ooh! How did I
[00:36:49] Mallory Lee: Don't you just sometimes... Wouldn't you sometimes rather not know?
[00:36:54] Rebecca Grimes: A, a, a hundred percent. Like I a hundred percent would have rather not know in that very moment where I was like: "What?" Because we had
[00:37:01] Rebecca Grimes: both
[00:37:02] Rebecca Grimes: been promoted we had been promoted and so I was like, well surely that would have been the time that they would have equalized this, and the answer was no.
[00:37:09] Rebecca Grimes: And I was just like, "Ugh!" And, um, and again, like it just, you know, it just reminds me and I, I recently was, um, was working with somebody on, uh, just a colleague, not even a colleague 'cause I didn't work together with Thorpe. A, a, a, a professional networking thing that turned into the beginnings of a friendship.
[00:37:27] Rebecca Grimes: She was like, "Can you help me figure out how to negotiate this job?" And I was like, "Let me have it. What do you got? What's on the table?" And I helped her write the email back to them and, uh, and she got everything she asked for. And I was like, they always were gonna do that if you asked for it. And you're in sales and they're expecting you to negotiate.
[00:37:50] Rebecca Grimes: And so when you don't, that's actually their, their first impression of you is that you don't know how to negotiate and th- like it's almost a bit of a test, which is why I'm a big believer in transparency. We're not playing games here. Like I don't wanna do any of that. Like here's what's available to you.
[00:38:04] Rebecca Grimes: Do you wanna join
[00:38:05] Rebecca Grimes: the team? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like here's, here's, this is what we're offering you. Um, but, but you know, it just, it's, it's again a, a good reminder that like it takes a village, and I've now taught her, and now she's gonna go teach ten people. And there's this ripple effect when we put in the time.
[00:38:22] Rebecca Grimes: And it maybe took me like, I don't know, a couple of calls, email draft. Like maybe I invested like a whole hour in helping and supporting her. This woman that I just met like three weeks, four weeks earlier, something like that.
[00:38:34] Mallory Lee: Yeah.
[00:38:35] Rebecca Grimes: But I was like, now she's empowered to go do that again. And like that is, that is the work that also we have to carry around as part of our mental load is-- well, at least I do because I just-- I wanna change this dynamic for when my daughter's out there, that this isn't a thing that we're talking about anymore.
[00:38:52] Mallory Lee: Yeah,
[00:38:53] Mallory Lee: that's so great. I'm super grateful. I don't talk about my employer that often, but I work at Zipline, and we recently went through a bit of the, like, annual review process. And as part of that, our team does analyze every single person's comp and their comp band and the trends and what is the market rate for the people who work here.
[00:39:18] Mallory Lee: And so they've got like a desired place where they want everybody to be within the band, and then they update the band every single year. And this is a tangent, but this is the first time we've seen some of the bands come down this year. And so it's, you know, AI related of course, and all kinds of crazy, crazy situations going on in the world.
[00:39:45] Mallory Lee: But I am just very grateful that they take the time to do that because, A, some employers literally never do, and it could be a tiny bit of ignorance or something. But then there are some employers who they do know the market rates and they're not going to change things to match them. And that's intentional.
[00:40:06] Mallory Lee: And, um, you know, it's just so important to figure out who you're signing up to work for. So important.
[00:40:12] Rebecca Grimes: We are literally in that exact same process. We do, compa-ratio as our, as our benchmark, and we've got targets for our folks, and we do job classification. We take it very seriously here. Again, top down, HR down, like this is, this is what we do. And like, there are several, several individuals on my team that are getting market adjustments in addition to merit because the market's shifted, and I would rather retain them now than desperation at the tail end of like, what, what was the, what was the offer?
[00:40:43] Rebecca Grimes: What if, what if I counter that for you? When people feel seen and, uh, valued, they're loyal forever. And, you know, I am very blessed that I have individuals that I have worked with two, three, four times at different companies. Um, there's eight folks at my current company that I had worked with before.
[00:41:02] Rebecca Grimes: and like, I think that like when you, when you think about what that means when you show up in that way, there is a loyalty that is-- isn't even about like, I like you as a human. It is that I trust that you will do right by me as an individual inside your organization. And, not a lot of companies do this.
[00:41:22] Rebecca Grimes: I can tell you, I've worked in dozens of companies where basically it was like, you get a three percent pool, figure it out for your team. I don't care who's above and below. I'm not gonna give you that research. Like, I have everything about my entire team, and we talk about equitable, if you're in the same job role, how do we close those gaps if, if there are any gaps?
[00:41:42] Rebecca Grimes: And, um, and it is, in fact, um, every company I've worked at, like new people come in at the market rate, and your legacy folks stay at the rate that they were at when they joined the organization. And that-- those are the ones that leave because they're going to find somebody who's gonna pay them current market rate instead of you just doing the work and paying them current market rate within your organization.
[00:42:02] Rebecca Grimes: And if that means somebody's getting a fifteen percent raise, they're getting a fifteen percent raise because better for that than the opportunity cost of replacing them and losing a fantastic employee. Like there's-- I'm very fortunate that I work with a, with a fantastic leader who sets the tone for that.
[00:42:19] Rebecca Grimes: And, um, you know, I think that's why, that's why we follow people is 'cause they align on values that matter to you.
[00:42:27] Mallory Lee: And you are a person that people
[00:42:31] Rebecca Grimes: Aw.
[00:42:31] Mallory Lee: great. Says a lot about you.
[00:42:33] Shannon Curran: That means a lot. It says a lot about you that people wanna continue working for you.
[00:42:37] Rebecca Grimes: I'm-- I, I, I, am very fortunate that with every, uh, with every organization, I am introduced to fantastic new talent that become part of my community, my, my professional community. And I don't, I don't hire them by design. Like, I-- if there is an opportunity and, a-and they are qualified, I encourage them to be considered as part of this process.
[00:42:57] Rebecca Grimes: And my referrals don't actually get any preferential treatment. I empower my hiring managers. Um, you know, we recently, last year, um, hired, Lance, uh, our, our North America head of sales, and, uh, we had worked together, uh, at a company before, and I was like, "Someday I wanna work with him again." And when the opportunity opened up on the team, I was like, "You should toss your hat in the ring."
[00:43:19] Rebecca Grimes: And he was like, "Okay." And then I stayed out of it. Wasn't my decision. I needed the entire company to say he was the right hire. I neutrally stayed out of it because I was like, " you get a leg up because I've opened a door for you. but that doesn't guarantee that you're gonna have a place on the team.
[00:43:32] Rebecca Grimes: You need to demonstrate that this is the right role for you." And I've loved working with him and it's our next chapter together, so.
[00:43:39] Mallory Lee: this conversation flew by.
[00:43:42] Mallory Lee: Um,
[00:43:42] Rebecca Grimes: Oh my gosh.
[00:43:43] Mallory Lee: I know. We gotta do, we gotta do our save of the week. Yeah. Rebecca, you listened already, so you're probably familiar with this part, right?
[00:43:54] Rebecca Grimes: I am.
[00:43:55] Mallory Lee: Okay, wonderful. Um, Shannon, do you have something you wanna go first?
[00:44:00] Shannon Curran: Um, sure. So my save of the week is, we are going through a lot of transitions in the current house- in the current household. My two-year-old went from toddler to preschool yester- two days ago. Uh, and my youngest is starting daycare on Monday.
[00:44:17] Shannon Curran: my save of the week actually is kind of silly. I... So my son is moving from one classroom to another. Um, and they've been doing a really good job at his daycare of, like, taking him in for an hour each day, or, like, having him do snack in there, having him play outside.
[00:44:30] Shannon Curran: It's been, like, a four or five-week process. But yesterday was his first, like, real full day. Yeah, they're doing an excellent job. The save of the week is that I gave him a backpack for the first time. So he doesn't usually have a backpack at school, at daycare, 'cause they just, like, leave their stuff there.
[00:44:44] Shannon Curran: but I was like, "I feel like this is kind of a big day. I want him to feel like there's some transition happening." Like, not to scare him, but to feel. And so I said, "I can carry your backpack." He goes, "I'm gonna carry it." Like, "I wanna carry it." And, uh, if you saw, Mallory saw my Instagram story, but he's carrying this ginormous backpack.
[00:45:00] Shannon Curran: Like, it's the size of his entire body. And it has, like, four things in it. It has, like, clothes in it, because you have to bring clothes 'cause they'll get, get messy. And he carried it in and put it in his cubby. And he looked at me and he said, "Bye, Mommy."
[00:45:13] Shannon Curran: And he, like, ran over to have breakfast. And it was, uh- I, yeah, it was just like a moment where I was like really proud to be his mom.
[00:45:20] Shannon Curran: You know? I was like, "This kid is really... I'm, he's building the skills. He is like resilient, and he is navigating change, and he carried a backpack for the first time today," and it felt very, uh... His dinosaur backpack. So that was our little save, uh, of the week, was the dinosaur backpack that is far too large for my
[00:45:39] Rebecca Grimes: So Shannon, that must be you and your husband just setting him up for transitions and life changes because it is a constant world of change. Like, how fantastic that is. I mean, I was the one that was crying. Like, when my daughters went to school, I was like, "Bye," and she just ran off, and I was like, "What? No, not even a final hug right now.
[00:46:00] Shannon Curran: Yeah, it... Transitions have been hard for him, and we, we've been hot and cold on like drop off, depending on the time of d- but he's been in pre- in, uh, daycare since he was five months old, so like it's not new, but this was h- not easy,
[00:46:11] Shannon Curran: right? Like, so I think, uh, yeah, I was very, very proud, and I'm hopeful that the backpacks saved him.
[00:46:16] Shannon Curran: So.
[00:46:18] Mallory Lee: What good little guy.
[00:46:20] Shannon Curran: I know.
[00:46:21] Mallory Lee: All right, Rebecca, what saved you this week?
[00:46:24] Rebecca Grimes: uh, I've been busy traveling. I have pretty much a lot of... Like, I had a lull between Christmas and the beginning of the year, and we have a board meeting coming up in May later this month, and we always turn it into, like, an extended executive team meeting. It also happens to be the last day, like, days of school at, um, at my daughter's final fifth grade year.
[00:46:49] Rebecca Grimes: And so I had already made an accommodation with the team, and I said, "Can we come in on Sunday night so we can get a full day in on Monday, so I can leave midday on Wednesday, um, and be back in time for field day on Thursday?" 'Cause I've done it every year and prioritize it as a thing I have to do. I've got to go be the crazy mom jumping in and doing the rope pull with the kids.
[00:47:07] Rebecca Grimes: Like, that is me. Water balloon toss, who wants to be with me? 'Cause I'm actually gonna hit you with a water balloon. I'm not gonna try to catch it. Like, that is me. Every-- My, my son goes to the same school, so I run back and forth between their two classrooms I-- And then the calendar came out, and it's Wednesday this year instead of Thursday.
[00:47:21] Rebecca Grimes: And I texted my boss, and I was like, "I know you've already been more than accommodating for this week, and I-- the answer can be no, um, but I, I want to come home on the, on the red-eye on Tuesday night, which means I'll miss Wednesday's half day. I can do it remotely after I'm done at, um, at..." And they're two hours behind me.
[00:47:41] Rebecca Grimes: So I'm like, "You know, I'll probably wrap up around eleven, which is nine your time. I, I'll join in as soon as I can." She goes, "You're gonna be at field day. Go change your flight." And like it wasn't even a question, and I was prepared for a no. and then I told my daughter, and she's like, "You're messing with me."
[00:47:56] Rebecca Grimes: I'm like, "No, I'm gonna be there for field day this year, so buckle up. It's your last year with me. I can't wait to embarrass the crap out of you in front of everybody." I genuinely think that like you, embody the people that you work around, and it's so fantastic 'cause if I were in her shoes, that would have been my exact same response if an employee came to me with that same ask.
[00:48:16] Rebecca Grimes: And so my save of the week. going to field day.
[00:48:20] Mallory Lee: Hey,
[00:48:22] Mallory Lee: we love a
[00:48:22] Shannon Curran: You should get a dinosaur backpack. There's...
[00:48:26] Rebecca Grimes: up as an inflatable dinosaur, and that's how I show up.
[00:48:30] Mallory Lee: Wow. You have plenty of time to order
[00:48:33] Rebecca Grimes: I have plenty of time to order that.
[00:48:36] Mallory Lee: Okay, my save this week, having all boys, it's been a busy week. Brian was traveling. This time of year is insane. Um, and this weekend is Bennett's first communion. And so we were driving home this weekend, Brian and I in the car, actually from Chicago, Rebecca.
[00:48:54] Mallory Lee: I should've knocked on your door. Um, anyway, this weekend we were looking ahead at the calendar. I'm seeing the communion on the calendar, and, you know, they have to wear a suit. And I was like, "Okay, uh, do we have a suit?" And we had Grayson's from his communion,
[00:49:10] Mallory Lee: I was like, "Okay, here's to hoping that the hand-me-down suit fits," right? And so he tried it on a couple days ago. Sure enough, fits just fine. And I
[00:49:20] Mallory Lee: was like, "We are locked and loaded. We are prepared." I did not have to scramble and buy him a suit. Thank God for hand-me-downs from big brother.
[00:49:30] Mallory Lee: So boy mom, boy mom is tough, but today, you know, delivered.
[00:49:36] Rebecca Grimes: I love that. I love that.
[00:49:38] Shannon Curran: Valuable.
[00:49:39] Rebecca Grimes: like the one less thing on your mental load to have to worry about is like it's so valuable to get those wins, so I'm
[00:49:48] Mallory Lee: Yeah.
[00:49:48] Rebecca Grimes: the suit fit.
[00:49:50] Mallory Lee: Me too.
[00:49:52] Shannon Curran: I can't wait to see the pictures. It's gonna be so cute. I can't wait to
[00:49:54] Shannon Curran: see it.
[00:49:55] Mallory Lee: I know. But now I gotta do the haircut.
[00:49:57] Shannon Curran: Oh yeah, we mentioned the last one. All three of her kids need a haircut by tomorrow.
[00:50:04] Rebecca Grimes: You
[00:50:05] Shannon Curran: you have clippers?
[00:50:06] Rebecca Grimes: You'll
[00:50:07] Shannon Curran: how to do it yourself? Like...
[00:50:09] Mallory Lee: We can. We can and we have, but, I mean, this is, like, a special occasion. I don't know. We might have to go see Miss Tara tonight. She's our barber.
[00:50:18] Shannon Curran: Oh, it sounds like she might be your save of next week, so I can't wait to hear about Miss Tara.
[00:50:23] Mallory Lee: Yeah, preemptive. That's, that's a good call.
[00:50:26] Rebecca Grimes: Uh-oh.
[00:50:27] Shannon Curran: it.
[00:50:28] Mallory Lee: right. Well, this has been so amazing. And, um, Rebecca, next time you do some research and you find some stats that are compelling, please come back and tell us more, and, uh, look forward to it.
[00:50:40] Rebecca Grimes: Oh, this is amazing. Thank you for, thank you for having me today.
[00:50:43] Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to Full Stack Moms,
[00:50:45] Speaker: We'll be back with more episodes that help you see you're not crazy and you're not alone. If we might be your people, please make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:50:57] Shannon Curran: I had the same shirt on I had on earlier, Mallory, so I had to run upstairs and change it. Sorry.
[00:51:02] Mallory Lee: I did that
[00:51:03] Shannon Curran: twice today, Rebecca.
[00:51:04] Rebecca Grimes: Oh. Um, okay, Shannon. So this is the year of not apologizing. And so, um, thank you for your patience while I got myself ready to join is the reframe, and I literally am correcting every woman I see 'cause I'm sick of apologizing for sh*t that doesn't war-- deserve an apology. So
[00:51:21] Shannon Curran: Love that.