262: From Permalance to Premium: How Niching Down Landed Martha 5-Figure Freelance Projects

Tired of saying yes to everything—and still not getting paid what you’re worth? Martha Fogarty was, too. After years of permalance gigs, unpaid invoices, and murky job titles, she drew a line in the sand. In this episode, Martha shares how getting hyper-clear on her niche and offer flipped the power dynamic, brought in multiple five-figure clients, and helped her build a freelance business that’s finally on her terms. If you’ve ever felt like clarity could change everything—this one proves it can.

About Martha:
Martha is the founder of LIFTOFF — fashion’s ultimate brand launch lab. Part design school, part business bootcamp, it’s where early-stage founders learn how to build labels that don’t just look good but become successful, profitable companies. She’s spent 25+ years helping companies go from scrappy idea to runway darlings with record-breaking revenues, including Chris Benz and Brandon Maxwell. Along the way, she’s picked up CFDA awards, launched, scaled and sold two brands of her own, and guided dozens of founders from "I think I want to do this" to 7-figure business owners. Her mission? Demystify the fashion industry, skip the gatekeeping, and equip and empower future founders to lead like both the Creative Director and the CEO of their future.

Connect with Martha:
Email her at [e-mail]
Check out her website

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Connect on LinkedIn

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Creators and Guests

Host

Heidi Weinberg {Sew Heidi}

Heidi (aka Sew Heidi) is a self-taught freelance fashion designer who built a six-figure business without a degree, portfolio, or industry connections. After years of burnout in the fashion industry, she went freelance—and never looked back. Now, she helps other designers ditch toxic jobs, land better clients, and build flexible careers they love. Through her podcast, courses, and resources, Heidi has helped thousands of designers take control of their fashion path and finally get paid what they’re worth.

What is Fashion Designers Get Paid: Build Your Fashion Career On Your Own Terms?

This is a show for burnt-out fashion designers (and TDs, PDs, patternmakers, textile designer and beyond) who want more flexibility in their career while still doing work they love.

You'll learn how to build a freelance fashion business, so you can do the work you love on your own terms. Freelancing in fashion is the only way to get freedom in your day (instead of being tied to a desk).

Whether you want to earn extra money on the side, fund your fashion brand, or replace your salary, the FDGP podcast will help you get there. Listen in for actionable tips and strategies to kickstart or grow your career as a freelance fashion designer, build your confidence, and create the life you want.

Hosted by $100k+ fashion freelancer Sew Heidi, the show features interviews and strategy sessions with successful freelance fashion designers from around the world who've ditched toxic fashion jobs and taken control of their own destinies. This is the only place to get REAL insights from REAL freelancers who have built REAL careers on their own terms. (Formerly the Successful Fashion Freelancer podcast.)

Martha Fogarty and [e-mail] - July 21
VIEW RECORDING - 61 mins (No highlights): https://fathom.video/share/a-MnQ2fzFRztCP5krVeExjg8whzmsRCP

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0:02 - martha
Hello. how are you?

0:05 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
I'm good. How are you?

0:07 - martha
I'm good.

0:08 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
You're so put together.

0:10 - martha
Look at you. Well, because I saw the LinkedIn video of me where I was like, well, if you ever wanted to see the real deal. Okay.

0:21 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
So I normally don't, I know it says in all the onboarding that we're, we sometimes share the video and I normally hardly ever don't. Um, but I mean, honestly, that's what I look like.

0:34 - martha
So like, same, same, same.

0:38 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
I'm like someday I actually did kind of do my hair today. Cause I gave a little presentation earlier. And then I was like, I gotta, I gotta get this up. I can't having it down is like crazy for me. I'm like, I need this up. But, uh, at some point I'm like, this is what I look like. I work from home. I don't give a . Yeah. This is, this is it.

0:59 - martha
This is what you get. Hello. Have you seen the, it's like going around now, it's gone viral. It's this woman, she's like the I Don't Care Club. She's all like, now that we're in perimenopause and menopause, here are the things that we don't care about. And she's like, we don't care if you've lost a shoe, you're going to school with one shoe, your problem, not mine. And she's like, it's like, the way it's, it's so lo-fi. Send this to me, because it sounds amazing.

1:35 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Yeah, it is. My feeds are just full of, you know, the, the Coldplay scandal. And I won't lie, I can't get enough of it. I'm like, I love it. I can't, I keep clicking through and reading . It's such garbage and I can't get enough.

1:51 - martha
I know, but it's like something, there's something about it that is so like, yes, yes. Yes. This is the kind of news we need right now. Like, all the news has been so bad, so contemptuous, so much conflict, like, all the world. We need two people who have made really bad decisions to make them juicy life gossip. On the kiss cam at Coldplay. Yeah.

2:22 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
I mean, to be honest, if you really think about how traumatizing it probably is for them and their families, that sounds so intense. But also, I'm like, who does that? How stupid are you?

2:36 - martha
You're at a concert.

2:38 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Yeah.

2:38 - martha
Yeah. You and the head of HR of your company.

2:42 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Like, get a hotel room and go in at separate times. Yeah. Yeah.

2:50 - martha
Oh, gosh.

2:52 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Not to mention that, yeah.

2:53 - martha
I mean, I think, yeah, he's had to resign. I I think she had to resign. They're both getting divorces. Yeah. Bad news. Bad news. Bad.

3:03 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Yeah.

3:04 - martha
And here's Chris Martin just like, I'm just singing here. I'm just singing here.

3:11 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
No, you'll have to send me the don't give a meme because I haven't seen it.

3:16 - martha
And it feels just my vibe.

3:18 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
It's brilliant.

3:19 - martha
I love everything about it.

3:21 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
There's a book by who is it by called The Subtle Art of Not Giving a . Oh, yeah.

3:35 - martha
Mark. Mark Manson. Mark Manson. Is it Mark Manson? Yeah.

3:38 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
I think so.

3:40 - martha
Something like that. Yeah. I've I've done the audio book and it's real good.

3:44 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
It's real good. Real good.

3:46 - martha
And I that book found or I found it or it found me at like just the right moment in time. And I still it's on my bookshelf. Yeah.

3:58 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
I like easily.

4:00 - martha
I still go back and kind of reference it when I'm, like, struggling, like, should I care? Should I not care? Like, what is the, yeah, that's great. That's a good one. He has a weekly newsletter, too.

4:15 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Yeah, I have, I, I, I'm, I'm very mindful of what newsletters I get on. But, not that his is going to be bad, but, like, I can only take so much. Yeah, and I, I don't think I've ever really followed him much other than that one book. I don't even know, what does he even talk about?

4:39 - martha
Now, he still kind of talks about the same thing, but in his newsletters, it's sort of about, like, now he's kind of shifted into, like, okay, like, you say that you want ultimate freedom, but without a little bit of effort and struggle, like, you don't. don't know when you're happy. Like, you wouldn't happy all of the time, every day, all day long.

5:07 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
And it's good.

5:08 - martha
Like, the way he's talked about it and weaved into it. Yeah. I only subscribe to, like, three weekly newsletters, and his is one. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That does sound kind of interesting.

5:18 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
I might have to check it out. Yeah. And they're quick. I there's a couple I can, like, unsubscribe from and kind of clean up. Yeah.

5:23 - martha
They're quick, too. Okay. Because it's like a novel. I'm not reading it. Yeah. So you probably don't read a lot of my emails because I'm really good at writing novels. No, I do check your emails. No hard feelings if you don't.

5:35 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Well, now I have a robot that summarizes.

5:39 - martha
Yes.

5:40 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Right, right, right, right, right, right, right. Yes.

5:45 - martha
All right.

5:47 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Okay. I want to talk about – well, do you have any questions before we just, like, jump in? Or I think you kind of know – you've listened to the podcast, I imagine. Yeah. Yeah, I have. Yeah. right.

5:59 - martha
Yeah. next A couple of times, but yeah. few times here and there, here and there.

6:04 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Anything you want to go through beforehand? I don't think so.

6:08 - martha
Okay. I mean, I didn't get any notes or talking. Nope.

6:12 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
You don't need any. We're just going to gab.

6:14 - martha
We're just going to gab.

6:14 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Um, I want to talk first about like how getting clear on your niche and your offer and your customer. Like you, you told me in a conversation a few weeks ago that because you got hyper clear on these things, you are in the works of, or I think you closed a five figure contract because of word of mouth, but only because you had gotten really clear on your offer and your niche. That's kind of the foundation of where I want to kickstart. And then we can talk about so many things because you've kind of productized your offer. And I want to talk about that. Um, but first, like, tell us about how this.

7:01 - martha
Well, it was, you know, I would love to say it was like, oh, okay, like, I worked with you. And then like, the very next day, I was like, I do this, and it's so clear. But it was actually a little bit more of an evolution of, okay, here are all the things that I'm now, like, cleaving off. I am not doing this and doing this and doing this. And this and this and this and this. What are the core things that I'm offering? And that, much thanks to you, actually, you were the one who was like, this is what you do, by the way, launch women's wear brands. It's what I've done professionally. I've almost exclusively worked in Upstarts. And then launched my own brands and all these other things. Here's the thing. Every Everyone that knows me knows that I've done those things. So yet somehow what I was conveying that I was doing and what I had done were like ships in the night. They just like never the two were meeting on a landing client trajectory. And it wasn't until I got really clear about, okay, I am no longer going to offer whatever it is that they're needing. So that I fit what they're looking for. It's like, here's what I offer. It just flipped the power dynamic and my value to people. You know, because the truth is, is like if you're constantly just trying to fill, you know, plug holes, you know, you don't have enough fingers. But if you are like, oh, okay, I do this one thing and my peg fits in that slot. Oh, and it also fits in this slot. And it's like. All of a sudden, then those holes start coming towards you. So that was really what was amazing is that I got really clear about what it was that I was doing, not just to others, but to myself. And I think just the talking about it, talking about what I was doing with clients, the way that I was talking about it must have been much different and much more clear. Because all of the new clients that I've gotten are actually from referrals from people that I know. Who you knew before as well. knew before, who I've known for five years, 10 years, 20 years. And so, but they weren't thinking about me in that way that like when someone said that one thing, I was the person that they thought of. They might have been like, oh, my friend Martha works in fashion. Maybe ask her a question or two. It wasn't, that's what my friend Martha does. You need Martha.

9:58 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Yeah. And that.

10:00 - martha
has been the biggest, the biggest shift. And it's also made things a lot more clear. You know, I'm getting a lot of like infield sort of, you know, queries from LinkedIn or even from my website. My website's not even great, but now when I respond, it's not, oh, well, and I can do this, and I can do that, and I can do this. It's, here's what I can do. It will be tailored to you and your needs. But in essence, these are, this is the framework. And it has, my level of call conversion has gone way up. My level of landing deals has gone way up. And just across the board, it's made everything, I don't want to say easier. Like it has.

10:53 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Yeah. So if you could. Could you, if this is possible, explain to us, like, right, you said you've got these people who know you, 5, 10, however many years, and now when they hear someone maybe talk about a need, they're like, oh, Martha's the one versus, oh, Martha works in fashion, she does some stuff in fashion, who kind of knows what she does, this vague thing, it's now like, oh, no, she's the one. Like, how, how were you communicating with these people before about who you are in the fashion world and what you do in the fashion world versus how are you communicating with them now that they now think of you as the one to send these people to? And then when these people come to you, they're like, oh, I just have to talk to Martha. Like, they're almost sold before they get to you, I would argue.

11:46 - martha
Yeah, yeah, I, I, I agree with that. I, I think that they're already, they're already three or four steps into whatever, how many steps of the decision-making process of who they're going to work with.

11:59 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
There are.

12:00 - martha
They like, ripper steps into it by the time that I talk to them, which is a great place to work from. It's hard to know. I can't really put my, was thinking about this, actually, since the last time we talked, but, like, what is it exactly that I've been saying differently or doing differently? But I do think it's talking about exactly what it is that I'm doing for my clients as opposed to, and this is the big shift that I think happened, is that, you know, it wasn't that I wasn't doing this before. I was just doing it in a freelance capacity where I wasn't necessarily the one putting together the scope, and I wasn't necessarily the one out. Finding what my job responsibilities were going to be, they would sort of have a job posted, I would respond, whether it actually was freelance or not freelance at times. But, you know, because freelance is like, you scope, you price, you, you know, cut and set all the terms. And also, they can't necessarily, they tell you sort of what they need done, but they can't tell you necessarily how to do it. That was not what was the freelance that I was doing before. You live in New York City, just to clarify.

13:36 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
So permalance is a really big thing. It's a real thing.

13:40 - martha
Like if you Google freelance designer or freelance tech designer or freelance anything in New York City, you're going to get pages and pages and pages of permalance, which is a full-time job plus where they often pay you a weekly rate because you're going to be. Working way over 40 hours. And also, it's just a full-time job and they just don't want to pay benefits and, you know, all that. So, prevalent. So, anyway, so I was running into that a lot. And what I found is that I was working with people and I was, you know, I would come in to do this one thing. You know, whether it was launch their brand or if it was just to, you know, kind of revamp and reposition their brand on like a big scale or whatever. And then it would be like, oh, but you're so good at this. Do this, too. Oh, you're so good at this. Do this, too. Or I'd be like, hey, guys, why is it working like this? Here, I came up with this whole plan, you know, for like how your business can work better, faster, smarter, and a whole hell of a lot better for everybody involved. And they'd be like, great. Okay, put it in. But like, I wasn't getting paid more. And I was constantly sort of then pulled over here and pulled over there and doing this and doing that. You know, I'd have like, six titles, you know, and it'd be like, yeah, they were all great director level titles, or like head of design, head of atelier, head of whatever. But it wasn't that I was, you know, kind of if you're focused everywhere, you're focused nowhere. And I think that not only was did that not set me up for success, although I was successful in the roles, but I didn't feel successful in those roles. It also didn't set me up for when I was communicating to other people outside those companies, what I was doing for those companies, to be really clear, because I was everywhere. You know, and so when I took a step back, and I was like, I got got to shift this. And it's no longer like, okay, you're We're telling me sort of what we're doing. I'm now telling you what I can do for you, how I'm going to do it, and how I'm going to deliver. One, people are a lot nicer to me, like, remarkably. Two, when I set a boundary, people listen. Maybe not the first time, but the second time, they do, which is not something I do easily. As you know, boundaries are very hard.

16:31 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Yeah, you and I worked very hard on boundaries.

16:33 - martha
But, like, but I think what that did is also when I would be talking to people that I knew, I could say, oh, I am doing this, and wow, this happened because of this. And so it started to convey not only that, like, one, I am offering something that I'm delivering on, and I'm able to show results, but it was, like, Oh. I took myself, although I wasn't, it wasn't that I wasn't an expert over here, I just made myself in the position, it's sort of like, which angle of the telescope are you looking at? And I was, you know, I'm now the one sort of pointing the view. And that, I think that is the difference, more so than maybe, because these are people I know, so I wasn't like, I do this, and I'm, here's my pitch talk. I think it was how I was coming at just telling them about what I was doing that made it cool for them in, like, big ways. And, like, somehow internationally, where, like, my friend, I told you who does, like, she does, like, costume in experimental theater, right? So, yeah, so he was, he was in London working on a show, and then the guy who was the choreographer, his... The sister came to see the show, so they're talking afterwards, and she wanted to start a fashion brand, and he was like, oh, you should talk to Martha. That's what she does. She'll do this for you. So now, here we are, and we're working together, and I'm thrilled, and she's thrilled, and everybody's thrilled. Um, yeah, so it's, I think sometimes all of the clarity and, like, the way and the words that you use to, like, pitch can come from the clarity of, like, who you are in your dynamic of offer. Yeah.

18:38 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
That's so fascinating to me, because it's not like you were explicitly saying, oh, I'm a freelance fashion designer, and then you all of a sudden started saying, oh, I'm a freelance fashion designer who does this. It wasn't even that simple or arguably even that intentional. It was more. a product of, if I'm interpreting correctly what you said here, a product of your work that you're doing for these brands changed. It went from going in-house and doing eight different titles, because I know some brands were pulling you into like, and you have an amazing track record and you've worked with some amazing brands to get really big results. I'm aware of some of these. And then they would bring you in for that, but then they're also like, oh, wait, you know how to do tech packs and fittings? Like you're all of a sudden they're the, you're the TD. And so it shifted from that to working with brands very intentionally of like, here's what I do. I'm going to help you start your brand and just a product of your workload shifting casually or naturally translated into these, what I'm assuming are casual conversations you have with friends when you're just hanging out, like for a happy hour or like whatever. Yeah. All of sudden, they see you in this different lens, and it's more clear, like, oh, that's what she does, and then they come across somebody who needs a brand, and then they're like, oh, talk to Martha, that's exactly what she does. I mean, is that kind of it?

20:15 - martha
I think that is it. And I think it's, you know, it's something that I couldn't have anticipated that that would have been the avenue from where a lot of opportunity would have come from. I thought it was going to be, okay, now I'm going to have to, like, you know, do a lot of, you know, customer research and be reaching out and, like, you know, a lot of advertising. I've done no advertising. And, you know, I've booked consistent clients, simply because, one, you know, as you have, like, make sure there's a demand, like, step one, make sure somebody wants what you do. Like, yes, there was a demand. But, like, I thought that I was going to have to, like, meet demand with, like, advertising. So that people could, like, find me. And ultimately, yes, I will have to do that. But right now, I've had enough work coming in just because the people that I know are, like, connecting the dots for me. I think because I connected the dots for them without realizing it. Oh, so, okay.

21:21 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
I love the way you just said that. Without even realizing it, too. It wasn't intentional. It was just an organic byproduct of how your work structure changed as a freelancer. Changed the way you then talked about it. Yeah.

21:36 - martha
Oh, that's so cool. And it's made it really, really, it's made it really great to work with my clients, too, because, you know, they know what to expect. And, you know, I'm delivering against those expectations and then some, you know, that's the goal across the board. But, like, also then... you know, when I say, oh, hey, I think we can further this, you know, it paves the way for, like, you're both, you're, like, proving what you can do and then paves the way to, like, build on that more. You know, if, you know, is it, you know, great, we've gotten this far, that's the end of our road together. Do you want to continue on for, like, the next phase? They do because, you know, we, it's been a good working relationship because it's just changed everything about how I'm interacting with clients. I'm definitely being less, like, knee-jerk reaction to, like, something needs to get done, so I'm just going to be the one to do it. That's not always the right answer. Yeah. You know, and sometimes that thing that needs to get done is actually outside of your scope, so, like, if you are the one to do it, you're just giving your time and skill away for free, which I was doing a lot. And I know a lot of people do, a lot. Yeah.

23:06 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Okay, so can you talk a little bit about your offer? Because I really appreciate what you said earlier of like, I'm not finding all these holes to be plugged and then like running out of fingers to actually plug them. I'm saying like, no, this is the hole that I plug and then all these plugs are, all these holes are coming at me and need this exact plug that I have. And so can you talk a little bit about what is that plug? Like what is the offer? Because you, in a way, you, I mentioned this earlier, you've productized your offer to some extent in a way that some freelancers maybe will get there, some maybe won't because of a long list of reasons. And I, I don't think you have to get to this stage, but I, I think people find it interesting to hear about how you have your offer set up. Almost like as these three tiers, and it's like, you're starting a brand, these are the three tiers I have to work with me, and it might be personalized a little bit, but it's kind of set of like, these are the three ways to work with me. Which one would you like?

24:16 - martha
Yeah, yeah, I think that it's, yeah, so I have three tiers, and they obviously sort of all build on each other. So like, if you get the premium tier, which now I've kind of just started to refer to as like the ghost design package, like, like sort of ghost writer, you know, kind of idea where like, okay, you want to start a fashion brand? Great. Like, you don't really want to, you know, kind of learn the ins and outs, you know, you know what your role is going to be, which is just like kind of owner manage the process, maybe they don't want to be super involved. You know, it's sort of I will deliver you. I will deliver you. So a successful, sellable, most likely sellout, get press, like, business, full, up and running, great, good. And I go from, like, day zero to sample collection delivery. And then, obviously, if we want to continue on, that might look a little bit different. But right now, that's the area and, like, the scope that I'm working on. The tier sort of below that is for people who want to be a little bit more hands-on. And they want to actually know more about the business. And they want to know more about, like, how to design, what is designing. I think a lot of people, I've realized, once you're in it for so long, you realize that people outside don't actually understand, like, what is design. It is not sitting down and drawing a bunch of, like, pretty pictures. It's not. not. Thank That is part of it, and I think everyone will agree, it's the most fun part of it, but it is a very small part of it, and it's like, okay, so how do you, you know, this is where I can, like, pull from a lot of, like, my education background, you know, design thinking, fashion design, kind of all that, and people that don't come from design background or manufacturing background or business ownership background. And kind of being and knitting together, like, design, business, entrepreneurship, like, the business of fashion and what that entails. And also sort of, you know, like, the ways that you and anyone who's had a fashion brand will tell you, like, it's all of the things that you have to do that, like, perfectly tie up in a little bow to, like, deliver the product. The client, or to the customer, for them to believe that they are the ones who have discovered you and are making, like, their, they ascribe their affinity to your, you can tell them all you want, who you are, but if they don't believe it, they won't buy it. So that's where, like, a lot of fun and, like, bold, really comes into play. Okay, so it's sort of, like, if we have, like, strong arm emoji, it would be, like, me strong arm and you strong arm, but I do more of the execution. So, like, they learn, and we're talking, like, everything from, like, yes to them, but it's also, like, cash flow planning, who the people are that you're going to be meeting, how to interact with them, how to, a lot of people haven't run a business before, so they don't even know how to manage, like, people or, like, timelines and communications. And it sounds a lot easier than it is, especially once you're up and running and you've got three seasons. easier than it is. So I do most of the execution there too, but it's much more of, I also sort of guide and equip you with the knowledge and know-how so that like next season, theoretically, you could go and do it all yourself. Or no, I want to do this, and I know I'm going to hire somebody for this, and I know I need to have this amount budgeted to do that. Um, and then my lowest tier, uh, which has actually been pretty successful. I've had, you know, several people go through it, you know, not every client, you know, you get, you get what you put in, like everything, you know, like if you don't go to class in college, you're probably not going to get an A. Um, so, but this is where like, again, strong arm emoji, like I definitely have like my teacher hat on, and they have the strong arm. They are doing all of the execution, but I'm giving them, like, all the tools, framework, and knowledge to do that. And that is the only package tier that only goes up to the point at which they then would go into product development. Because I'm not hands-on, I don't manage their product development, they go and handle that. I have kind of woven in a little add-on package that, like, if they want to continue on, I will help them with the product development. But, yeah, I mean, I think just sort of knowing, like, here are the options, you know? Like, you get this, you get this, and you get this. Here's where this takes you, here's where this takes you, and here's where this takes you. So, you know, and, like, the premium tier is popular for a lot of reasons because, you know, a lot of people, they want to just be the business owner, and they don't want to actually sort of. They know how to do everything because they know that their model for their business is I am going to employ people to do this. Great. Great. The middle tier I really love because it gives people the power to, you know, it's really empowering to be like, okay, I mean, we all wish that we ran successful businesses every day, all year, every year. But there are going to be lean times and there are going to be fat times. And in the lean times, being able to be like, okay, I don't have enough money for a tech designer for these last three styles or whatever, but I know how to do a tech designer. I can do it. Like that is a pretty amazing thing as a business owner to be like, I'm not relying on constantly having to, you know, keep throwing cash into the machines, make this engine go. Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah. It's been really good, and I think it's been really valuable to everybody kind of across the board, what they've gotten out of it. And it's also been really interesting, I think, especially working in the industry for so long, you don't realize, like, how much value you can give and how much, like, knowledge you can give, you know? I mean, I've worked with, like, a bunch of institutions, you know, so, like, I was thinking, like, oh, college level. Oh, yeah, but, like, for people who didn't go to design school, that are adults, you know, it's no, the knowledge is no different, you know? It just, maybe how you teach it is a little different. Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, so those are, those are the structures of how I work, and actually, people love seeing that structure of, like, it's this, it's this, and it's this. Like, where can I meet you at where you're at right now? Yeah. And I think that. That is actually one of the biggest selling points is that I am meeting them where they're at. I'm not saying, okay, I only do this. So either like get on board or, you know, you know, it's like we can, we can work with you. Yeah.

32:15 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Can I, um, I, I think my understanding of tier, the first tier is enough that I, I want to give a couple more details about how you work with people and where I see it in my head on that tier. It's like, cause you said it's them, you, you're guiding them and they're doing more of the execution. And it's because I know we've talked about this. It's like, they have this idea, they want to start a brand. So you have to come up with all the designs and all the styles. And to do that requires some research and arguably a certain design aesthetic. And so you kind of guide them through, you're like, go shop your closet, go shop at these stores, go look at these websites, gather up these Pieces of air quote trend or inspiration and you guide them through that process all the way from the initial design through some of the construction details if you're like okay now we need to figure out this pocket and so like okay great now the client is going to go source some pockets and start taking pictures and then comes back to you with all this air quote homework that you give on a weekly basis as you guys are going through this process together and then you ultimately build out these designs. Design boards that you've helped guide them to make and also you've helped lend your expertise as to what is going to work or maybe not work for a long list of reasons and then you take those and you teach them but you also do I think the execution on the tech packs and then they are done with finished design boards, finished tech packs for x number of styles for their collection and that's kind of phase one.

33:53 - martha
that's phase one yeah okay so I want to explain that to give people a really specific idea of

34:00 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
What, um, you know, versus the premium tier is you, Martha, the freelancer, the consultant are going out, you're doing the shopping, you're taking the pictures, you're pulling all the stuff, you're putting it together, you're presenting it to them, then you're doing some of execution, then you're also bringing in some of your trusted partners and your network to do more nuanced things, maybe like pattern making, and you're helping introduce to factories and suppliers and more robust beyond here's the tech packs. And, you know, that's kind of the stopping point. And so it's, and then there's a middle tier in there. But I just, I want to explain the differential between them doing parts of the process and what that actually looks like in those two different tiers. Did I get that kind of accurate?

34:44 - martha
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and actually all of the like homework in that, in that lower tier, um, which I call boarding pass. It's, you know, it's, it's twofold. It like serves two purposes, you know, it's like one, yes, it's fun. And, you know, all of a sudden, you know, like, theoretically, every single person has a shirt dress in their closet, right? But 99.9% of the population hasn't thought about, like, what kind of color if I'm going to make a shirt dress? Like, they've never thought about all the colors that they've ever seen. They've never thought about all the color stands that they've seen. They never thought about all the plackets that they've seen. They never thought about the pockets. So it's this, like, epiphany kind of homework where, like, it's also fun, right? Like, you go to a store, you go to your closet, like, you know, take pictures, you know, Google Pockets, you know, all of a sudden, you realize that there's so much about pockets out there. But also, it's not unlimited. You know, it's like, you know, there's a finite number of ways to finish a pocket. So, like, you have a lot to choose from, but it's not overwhelming. So I feel like that's one element. of the homework, which is like, oh, you start to really see that there's all these options for all the different elements of a garment. And also, just by virtue of opening up and looking around, they start to understand how things are sewn together. They don't need to know, you know, this is, you know, you know, double face, you know, construction, you know, that's where I come in. Because as we're going back and forth about all the elements that they want to put in into each of their designs, you know, they'll send me, like, you know, pictures of plackets that they found that they might want to use. And they'll have questions, how's this? How's that? How would it work? You know, is this fabric going to work for them? By the time that we start with this project, and by the time that sort of we end with this project, which is where I then go and do the tech packs, and I treat them like the creative director, you have to tell me what you want, the same way. Because, like, when I'm not there, next season, you're going to have to be very specific with whoever you work with to tell them what you want. The time from, like, a start to the finish, at that finish point, they're using, like, so much terminology. They're able to recognize, like, the learning curve is very steep, but it's very effective. Um, and, like, more so, and I even used this, you know, when I was teaching at the college level, because, you know, before it would be, like, okay, take these two pieces of muslin, and now, you know, put the wrong side together and put it through the machine, you know. Now, sir, okay, this is an overlock scene. And they're, like, okay. Like, why? Where? How? Um, it didn't give enough. I started using this when I was teaching, because it, all of a sudden, the kids were, like, I understand. I not only what the stitch is useful for, I understand what kind of fabrics it's used on, I loved how the row finished this jacket, I want to do that, okay, that is this, like, and these things are actually toolkits that they can take forward into all of their seasons and all collections forward, of pictures of how they want to have things finished, because when they take those tech packs, one, having these detailed design sheets in this way, one, they understand what actually is in their tech packs. Most people do not understand what is in their tech packs, so they don't know if they're getting the right or wrong or somewhere in between. They also wouldn't know if they have no idea what, like, an overlock scene looks like. So now that they have a picture of it, when they actually get their sample back from the factory or their prototype, they can say, well, this doesn't look like this. What went wrong here? So it's all these checks and balances that actually moves that. I don't Significantly faster through the process than if they didn't have that. And obviously sets them up for like a huge knowledge base really quickly.

39:10 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Yeah, it's very empowering to give them that foundation. Yeah, yeah.

39:15 - martha
I mean, they're able to, you know, they're able to speak about what they want their clothes to be. Yeah. But one of the things that's actually in all tier, you know, is like streamlining what your brand is, like figuring out those brand pillars, finding out your brand mission, aligning that, not just with who you think your customer is, but like who is the actual customer and how do you reach them? And that's not just like, oh, I know that my customer, you know, I mean, because everybody's like, oh, well, my customer makes, you know, $150,000 a year. And she always, you know, goes to vacation, you know, it stands for pay. It's Like, yes, that is a person that exists, but you need to sell more than one dress. So, you know, who is your customer really as a group? And, like, how does, you know, and then, you know, it's, okay, so what are the shared attributes of those people? Where are they shopping? You know, what, you know, what products are they buying from those places? You know, and what is the price point? What are the fabrics? What are the color palettes? Are they trend-driven? Are they heritage-driven? Like, so we really dive in deep, and that's really where I get to the point where it's, like, when I say, like, you will be handed, like, the tools to be able to go sell, and I, you know, never 100% guarantee that you're going to be able to sell, you know, but, like, 99.99%. If somebody's not buying it, you're, you either haven't. MCCORPELL Tried to sell it, or, you know, you haven't, like, one of the levers that we ascribe to your brand is, like, way off. Either your prices are too high or, you know, anything else. So, yeah, so it's pretty in-depth and it's pretty comprehensive, but how that is finalized and the point at which it sort of wraps up with each client is a little different. Yeah, yeah, that's amazing.

41:26 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Would you be open to sharing some of the price points of these packages?

41:30 - martha
Yeah. You probably knew I was going to ask that because I always ask about money.

41:35 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
I know, yeah.

41:36 - martha
But honestly, I feel like people should be a lot more transparent about it across the board.

41:40 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Right? Yeah.

41:41 - martha
You know, so my, what I call the boarding pass, that's $18,000. Okay. Which, when you think about it, typically we're looking at about 15 styles because it's in the women's wear, you know, for kind of advanced contemporary to luxury, that's how, if you're going to be going. Going into a showroom, they need to see enough to get an idea of the collection. Also, if you're going to have, you know, your e-com, that can then be divided into several drops over season. So you're not having to then quickly go into redevelopment. So that's $18,000. And again, that includes my tech packs, which basically you kind of get the tech packs and then you get this whole course for like a couple hundred dollars, even though really the value is a little bit the other way in my mind. So the middle tier, which is kind of the strong arm, strong arm that we call control tower, that is $45,000. And with that, I don't think I mentioned, but like I set you up with like my whole network, you know, and that's, you know, or if you're looking for somebody who like I've never worked with before, I'm going to go vet them, find you the right person, you're going to work with them. And I get. And I get. Setup across the board there. That's $45,000. And then the top tier package, which is, you know, what we call co-pilot, that is $75,000. I love it. So, which, I mean, when you think about it, and I actually have done like a little price comparison thing, which is like, okay, if you are, like, one, I would charge more than $75,000 for just product development for a year. Working with somebody.

43:32 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
And it's a year-long program, right? It's a year-long to get your brand up and launched.

43:37 - martha
And, like, you absolutely would pay more than $75,000 to have, like, you know, a CFO to come in and, like, give you your business plan. So I've actually been thinking about raising my prices. Good. Because I think, well, they might, although they seem very high, I think they are very low for what the delivery is. Um, but yeah, so yeah, I'm proud of, you know, but right now I know that they are priced as such that people are willing to invest to that degree to get what they are. Um, yeah, yeah.

44:18 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Yeah. And I, I think it's hard to, I've seen all the packages. I've seen them on paper. I understand the value because you and I have worked very closely on communicating the value in the proposals in these tiers, what you actually send over to prospects on paper. And I think it's hard to communicate that in a 45 minute podcast in it verbally. Um, but I do agree that they're very fairly priced and for what the clients walk away with at the lower middle and top tier is, is, uh, extremely valuable. And yeah, the prices prices can definitely go up. You know, I'm a big proponent. Okay, so word of mouth is, and the clarity of how you talk about what you do, just by sheer nature of getting more clear on what you do, get a little meta here on this, but like that has been fueling your business this year. You mentioned you think at some point needing to do advertising. What makes you say that, and why advertising specifically, or do you mean just marketing in general?

45:28 - martha
I think maybe just marketing in general, well, because, so, okay, so I, you know, I've been like, you know, using LinkedIn to kind of, you know, like spread the word, but there too, the irony is the people that are reaching out that want to work with me, I already know them. They already know that I do this, but it isn't until they see it in like some LinkedIn post, they're like, oh, yeah, let's get together and talk, and like, there's been a lot of businesses coming that way, and I'm like, but I'm like, not reaching anyone I don't know. don't And the thing is, is that part of the reason that I actually sort of disaligned sort of with my core ethos, because I think of myself as like an artist and an educator kind of first. Um, I know there are people in like Wichita, Kansas, you know, somewhere in Idaho, you know, rural Texas, who are like creative geniuses who have this idea that they want to start a fashion company and don't know how to do it and don't have the resources like outside the front door to do it. And, and those are the people I also want to reach. Yeah. You know, because I feel like they are the ones who often struggle to, one, find anyone to work with who can actually deliver what they need. But two. And struggle to make that step over like, okay, great. Like, why can't there be a giant fashion company that comes out of like, rural Texas, you know, like, why not? Yeah, mean, Tom Ford came out of Texas. So, you know, like, that's so and also, you know, I know that there's people all over pockets of the world who want to do this. Um, and I would like to be able to reach those people and help those. I mean, at the end of the day, I'm a girl from St. Louis, Missouri, you know, like, who moved to New York and, you know, ended up working at a, like, the highest levels of fashion. And, you know, it can be done. You know, why not do it for yourself? Yeah.

47:47 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Um, I just lost my train of thought. I had a great question queued up there. Um, oh, the people that, like, I know you told the story earlier of your friend who does costumes for experimental dance and the choreographer's sister like it was a person of a person of a person, a of a friend, someone's cousin, right? And arguably someone who's doing experimental costume dance or costumes for experimental dance is in the air quote fashion space to some extent, right? Are the other leads and connections that you're getting, either if it's from that person or a person that they know that might need your services, are they all somehow connected to fashion or is it sometimes just people that you just know in general?

48:37 - martha
Well, it's a little bit of both. You know, so actually, so the choreographer's sister, she's doing her residency in like pediatric emergency room services and she loves it, believes in it, but wants to do this. Wants to start a fashion brand. It's really what she wanted to do and instead went to medical school where her brother went and did, like, all the artsy stuff. And now I think she's, you know, how the timeline there will, like, you know, you know, be telling. But, like, you know, so, like, she does not come from a fashion background at all. But just by virtue of, like, you know, who her brother was is, like, the six degrees of separation. Yeah. And then, you know, I've had people who are, you know, have worked in marketing, but, like, on the tech side, but have never worked in fashion. And I'll tell you, the one thing is, like, I'm less concerned if people haven't worked in fashion. And where I think the biggest heavy lifting is, is if they have never worked anywhere where they were, like, in manufacturing of anything. Like, all of the design stuff can kind of be taught, but a lot of the nuance of your, yes, you are a fashion designer, but to have a fashion design business, you have to manufacture a product. And that melding those two ideas together is very, very difficult. And I think teaching the ins and outs of, like, manufacturing a product is the heavier lifting for people who want to have a business. So that's, I'm like, oh, I don't care if he didn't come from a fashion background. Like, no problem. We'll get you up to speed there.

50:43 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Yeah. There's where you're going to have to do a lot of work.

50:46 - martha
It's like understanding, you know, global logistics and, you know, duties in Paris and all the fun stuff. Yeah.

50:56 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
So, um, I don't. don't think I was clear on my question, not if the client is not from a fashion background, but the people in your network and your friends who are now thinking of you as saying, oh, Martha's the one. Are they all kind of in fashion or are they sometimes just random friends who don't happen to work in fashion but now still think of you as the one if you want to start a woman's, you know, advanced contemporary luxury brand, go talk to Martha. Yeah, no, no, like none of them. None of them work in fashion. Okay, so it's not, that was kind of, because I think that, and I wasn't sure the answer, because it could have been that they do all work in fashion in that case. I'm like, okay, great, you have a great network in fashion and that's really proving valuable for you. But I also am glad that it's not because I think for people listening, it doesn't, you know, the person who wants to start a fashion brand arguably is not also tied into the fashion industry, this random person in Wichita or Texas. And so even getting clear with who you are and what you do in a freelance capacity with people outside of the fashion world, they're the ones, my, you know, my very first client came from the bank teller because I was opening up a bank account for my freelance business and she was like, oh, this, and she goes, I just had someone come in who wants to start a fashion brand and it was opening their account, let me connect you. And I was like, shut the front door. And so I think that like, it's sometimes these everyday people, not these fashion people per se.

52:38 - martha
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I ever told you this story, but I, yeah, I mean, I, I think that more business comes from odd coincidences and just like, you know, I don't want to say like being in the right place, it's a great time, but like in a little bit. You know, when I was, you know, freelancing before, you know, my clients hardly ever paid me in time. And I was always chasing money. And so I and I think I told you this. I used to like wait tables, bartend a couple shifts a week because I couldn't rely on. I didn't I knew that they wouldn't pay me on time and I didn't want to be strapped with cash. This is your like more permalance type of work in New York City. exactly. Yeah. So here I am permalancing and still not getting paid.

53:37 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
You know, so it's like, OK, double stab. Yeah.

53:41 - martha
So but it was, you know, and it happens to everyone all the time. shouldn't, but it does. Anyway, so the number of people that I met working at the bar, working at the restaurant that then have put me in touch with, you know, or they would. Come in and they're the textile agent for, you know, some brand I've never heard of or whatever, but don't you know they just had a designer walk in and who's looking to start a brand and, hey, maybe you guys should meet. I mean, that was a huge wealth of meeting tons of people and putting out the word in, like, weird little minions, like, go out into the world, you know, your behalf, you know, that, like, I would have never met any of those people. And it was great. It was great for business. It's been great for, you know, making long-term connections. I still have meetings with people that, you know, you know, from that. Yeah. So you just never know. You never know where it's going to come from. Yeah. And it's often not where you think it will. You know, you friend started a vegan cookie company, you know, like, years ago. And, um. I think it was Vegan and Lactose-Free Cookie Company or whatever. And I had my brand at the time. And we kind of had this saying, which was like, I'll edit it for, but like, do weird stuff. Like, do weird stuff to get your message out there. Like, you know, like the weird, like she was doing cookies for, I think, like some Uber or something. Like back, well, turns out, you know, like there were, it became like a big thing and helped like book a huge event for her. You just never know where the business is going to come from. And I think if you think you know where it's coming from, you're closing yourself off to all the ways it can come to you. Yeah. And sometimes it boils down to just getting clear about what you do, doing that, and then communicating that to people that you are just hanging out with. Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking about, there's like some movie. Or something. I know what I'm thinking of, but you know in Ghostbusters when he's like, I'm the key master, do you have the key? And he's like running around all of like New York City or whatever.

56:11 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
I don't remember it that well.

56:14 - martha
Perhaps you didn't watch Ghostbusters as much as I did growing up, but it's a little bit like that. Like, I am looking, I do this one thing. Do you fit? Like, do you fit? Do you fit? Yeah, it's made all the difference. I love it. I love it, Martha.

56:31 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Where can people connect with you and find you online?

56:34 - martha
Well, you can find me on LinkedIn, Martha Fogarty, or just marthaleefogarty.com. Okay, I love it. Yeah. So, yeah. And to end, I'll ask you the question I ask everybody at the very end is, what is one thing about being a freelance fashion designer that you wish people would ask you about, but they never do? Is it hard to work from home? don't love love Like, everyone just thinks that it's going to be, like, once you don't get, like, the first day of, like, structuring your new life as, like, a real freelancer, that it's like, oh, I've got this down, you know? There's an adjustment period, you know? Like, there's an adjustment period of, like, looking around the apartment for too long. Like, kind of, what am I, like, I know what I need to be doing, but, like, what, you, because you're so used to sort of, you know, taking, like, you know, input, you know, and then realizing that, like, oh, actually, now I'm just totally output-driven, you know? Like, it's a, it's an adjustment, and I wish that more people asked about that and talked about it, that, like, it can be, it can be a transition, you know? Like, you have to, you know, be concerted of, like, making efforts. to like get out of the house. Yeah. Cause your clients have not been in New York.

58:06 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
I mean, you're permanently on stuff. You were very used to like spending a lot of time in house and going on site, but your, your, your real freelance work that you're now doing is not that.

58:18 - martha
Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Totally remote.

58:21 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Um, and then obviously for some of them, like I go to factories that they want to produce and like sample domestically or anything.

58:27 - martha
Um, but you know, yeah, with them, it's all zoom, you know, zoom email. No. Yeah. I love it.

58:37 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Well, congrats. I'm so proud of what you've built. Uh, started working to it's July, 2025. You and I worked together last year in 2024 and we've done a few strategy sessions since then, but it's been such a trajectory the last 18 months, what you've built and how you've grown. And I, I, I can't.

59:00 - martha
Can't to see what the next 18 months brings for you, Martha. It's really exciting. Yeah. I mean, can you believe? I can. I can. You were an immense help, and I really just would not have happened if we hadn't worked together. I just know that. Well, you've put in a lot of the hard work, but I'm glad to help nudge you along. Thank you. Thank you.

59:26 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Okay.

59:27 - martha
There we go.

59:28 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Great. Yeah.

59:30 - martha
We're good.

59:31 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
We're good. I can tell you when it's going to air.

59:34 - martha
Oh, great. Let's see.
ACTION ITEM: Email Martha podcast link when live (Sept 1)
- WATCH: https://fathom.video/share/a-MnQ2fzFRztCP5krVeExjg8whzmsRCP?timestamp=3586.9999
ACTION ITEM: Post & tag Martha on LinkedIn re: podcast (Sept 1)
- WATCH: https://fathom.video/share/a-MnQ2fzFRztCP5krVeExjg8whzmsRCP?timestamp=3589.9999

59:42 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
It will air. 9-1. What's 9? August. September. September 1. September 1.

59:54 - martha
Yeah. Yay. So, my team will email you once this live with a link and all that stuff.

1:00:00 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
And I'll definitely post and tag you on LinkedIn. And, um, yeah, I'm stoked. Thanks so much for fun.

1:00:08 - martha
It was so fun. Yeah.

1:00:09 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
I hope I didn't ramble too much.

1:00:11 - martha
I have a tendency, you know, to really. Okay.

1:00:14 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
Let's don't, don't tell me about being verbose. Cause I am like the queen of verbosity. So, well, this is fun. thank you.

1:00:25 - martha
Seriously, Heidi, I mean, you've changed the whole trajectory of my life. Oh, I'm so glad to hear that.

1:00:32 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
I'm really glad it's been a big turnaround and I'm, um, I truly am excited to see where the next 18 months take you. You're smart. You keep refining. You're being really intentional. It's, it's very cool. Awesome. Yeah. All right. Yeah.

1:00:50 - martha
Thank you, Martha. Have a great rest of your day.

1:00:52 - Successful Fashion Designer (Heidi {Sew Heidi})
I'll talk to you soon. You too.

1:00:54 - martha
Bye.