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I cannot overstate the importance of Cece Bell's EL DEAFO. For both us, as a society, and for the prestige that it brought to graphic novels with the citation of that Newbery Honor, the first graphic novel to earn that shiny silver sticker! Get to know how Cece Bell came to be in her Origin Story!
Every hero has an origin story—even the graphic novelists who create them!
Jarrett: Hello everyone. My name is Jarrett Krosoczka and I wanna say hello to my friend, Cece Bell.
Cece: Hi everybody. Hi Jarrett. It's so nice to see you.
Jarrett: Oh, it's nice to see you. You're I miss you. I haven't seen you in so long. Even... Before the pandemic, we hadn't run into each other on book tour.
Cece: It had been a long time, I guess we probably haven't seen each other for four years. Maybe.
Jarrett: It might be. Yeah, it might be. I always see your silly and goofy posts on Instagram. So I really feel like we, we haven't missed a beat because I've been following along, you made a beautiful drawing for your mom on her birthday.
Cece: Oh, yes. I did. Yeah. I, yeah, we, I've actually been off of Instagram for a little while because I was finding that it was too much of a pull away from, my productivity. So I'm allowed to look at it every Sunday.
Jarrett: Ah!
Cece: Nothing for the rest of the week. It's hard.
Jarrett: I feel like if I did that, my thumb would always be like, ah, I need to look and scroll and see things. That is some amazing willpower, Cece Bell. So I, we know your story somewhat from your book, El Deafo, and as a person who's also written a graphic memoir, you decide like what you're gonna put on the page, what doesn't make it to the page.
And I've said this to you a bunch, and you've heard this a million times, but El Deafo is... Such a powerful book and it's a pillar in graphic novel history because your book was the very first one ever to get a Newberry silver sticker like that really pushed the whole medium of graphic novels forward.
And of course, when you sat down to make that book, that was nowhere near in your head. And we'll get to that. But before we do, I'm interested in how Cece Bell became Cece Bell, the graphic novelist, the cartoonist, the author. What are your earliest memories of drawing and making and reading comics tell us a little bit more about what your house was like growing up in regards to like the creative sources you consumed and created.
Cece: Okay. Wow. Let's see. I think I always like drawing and mark making and that kind of thing. And let's see. I do remember when I got very sick in 1975 when I was about four and a half which is where the book El Deafo starts, that I did a lot of drawing there in the hospital. And my parents think that I drew probably 100 drawings of the same thing over and over again.
It was just a little girl with a green face underneath the rainbow. Her body was shaped like a triangle and I just drew that repeatedly over and over. And that was probably an early experience of drawing being therapy in a way. But I always drew that was basically the only book that I would check out of my school library every Friday, the same Ed Emberly book; Make a World. And I really wasn't interested in reading that much. I could read, I didn't have trouble with it, but I just wasn't interested. I wanted to be making things. so Ed Emberly was a major part of my life.
And gosh, my... My home life, I was really lucky. My father was a doctor and my mother was a nurse. And I wasn't limited financially, basically. And it was a very supportive household, but in the book, there's this feeling that that my parents are fairly normal people and my siblings are fairly normal people.
And if I had focused on my family instead of on just the story of me coping with my deafness in school and at home it would've been much, much stranger. My family is bonkers weird and they are very funny. Oh, my goodness. They are just so weird. My mom is so weird. My dad is... We're just weird.
And so I, I tamped that down a lot because... The focus wasn't on that. It was on deafness and feeling isolated. So anyway, but my family was, yeah, there was my mom. There was a picture of my mom. Nuts, very dramatic and funny. And I think I get a lot of my storytelling abilities from my mom's side of the family and word play and nicknames and all that stuff comes into play.
And then my father's side is very really talented with hand skills. My grandmother was an amazing seamstress and my great grandmother was an amazing seamstress, but she was also a sign painter. I always found that really cool. A sign painter. Wow. I think that sort of some of the mix of who I was growing up and a huge focus on weird and probably Ed Eberly and the fact that my father got weekly issues of the New Yorker were major influences the New Yorker cover and then the New Yorker cartoon in the inside.
That's a little bit of, a little bit of what was going on around me.
Jarrett: Okay. So I want to meet these people who are more cuckoo bananas than Cece Bell, because you are so wonderfully and beautifully... Goofy and fun. And you might be the only person I know who consistently uses the hot dog emoji in text messages, so...
Cece: That's the best one ever!
Jarrett: I imagine that must have been, yeah, I guess that makes such sense. What - may I ask? What did your siblings grow up to do?
Cece: My siblings they struggled more than I did in terms of - this is gonna sound strange, but in a lot of ways, my hearing loss ended up being a real gift and the main way that it did that is I ended up getting attention from our parents.
That... More attention from our parents than my older siblings did, which was extremely unfair, but that's just how it happened, how it played out. And so they really struggled. They struggled with that lack of attention and just, they are my sister is five years older and my brother is seven years older and they're growing up was very different from mine, even that slight not generational, but time period was different.
And so they, they are probably the funniest, most creative people that I know, but neither one of them has found that lifelong dream career, which is something I struggle with them. That sense of guilt, even though what happened, wasn't my fault. I'm deeply aware of how much it changed things for them.
And it's a, it's an interesting thing, but they are so funny. If you think I'm funny, spend time with them and you'll just think that I'm as dull as a brick because those two and when we all three get together, it is just, it's pretty magical. And I'm so grateful that we get along and that we're as close as we are.
They're terrific siblings. Yeah.
Jarrett: Wow. What that is a, what a beautiful testament of your love for them. And their love for you comes across so clearly in the book, in regards to you, the baby of the family and they're concerned for your health that's, and I connect to that as well, because I too was, the baby of the family, and there was a lot of trauma going on.
And with that, I got a lot of attention. And I loved drawing as a form of escape. And I'm so touched to hear that your time in the hospital was spent drawing because that is a testament to the power of creating in the arts to get you through some hard times. Did you ever have an epiphany along the lines where you realized this thing could be a career for you?
Like this drawing thing?
Cece: That took a while. I was in school, in high school and the first part of college I was really super academic. And some of that was pressure from my own self, but also pressure from my dad. I think my dad wanted me to be a doctor like him, and I've have found that's a theme among a lot of cartoonists and illustrators that there was this parent who pushed, but pushed them to be something that they didn't want to be.
And that child like me in my case I think [inaudible] has a similar thing. And the name is leaving me... American born Chinese?
Jarrett: Oh, Jean Yang.
Cece: Helped me. Yeah. Yeah. Just that, that pressure. And There was that, but in school I was really academic trying to fulfill this thing for myself and for my father and overcompensating for the deafness.
I didn't want people to think of me as "that deaf kid". I wanted them to think of me, " that smart kid". And so I worked really hard and I never considered art as a career because it didn't seem like it was even doable. It wasn't doable. So when I got to college, I was an English major and I hated it.
I hated it. I don't know what I was doing. Having to write papers and read books and but while I was in college, I met Tom Angelberger, who ended up becoming my husband and he was an art major and I did take some art classes. There he is! There he is. He's so smart. And we started hanging out and I think he recognized that I was pretty good at it.
And I think he also recognized that I was unhappy as an English major. And so it was Tom who encouraged me to switch majors and just go for it. And I did, and suddenly I was happy and it was the best move I ever made, but it took a while longer to figure out what I was going to do with it.
Jarrett: Wow. You know... I obviously I know that you and Tom really support one, one another artistically, but I didn't realize he was really such an integral part of your origin story of you becoming the Cece Bell that we all know, that we know is the name on the spine of the book, the name on the front cover with all of those shiny stickers.
And, yeah. And so you were college sweethearts, and then you both got catapulted out into the real world. And so what happened from there? Did you graduate with an English degree?
Cece: We, no, no. I got out of that as quick as I could. I keep saying I don't like reading and I do, but the book has to get me.
Or it has to interest me from chapter one. And if it doesn't, I throw it out. So there were a lot of books that didn't interest me in chapter one in the English department, but I was out of there, but no, we I ended up getting a degree in fine arts and Tom did two, and we went to the college of William and Mary, which is in Williamsburg, Virginia, and which isn't really known for art. It's known for like business and physics and science. But we finished school and then we took a trip around the country together in an old Volkswagen van. And then we decided, because we survived that we could get married and survived that too. So we got married and I decided to go to graduate school at in Ohio. And so we got married right before that. And so at this point we were just 22. We were super, super young. And I decided I needed to, I wanted to become an illustrator. That I wouldn't have fit in with the whole fine arts crowd. I had this vision that I would have to go to New York city and drink champagne and talk about art and that just founded atrocious.
So I thought; "Illustration!" And so I decided to go to a graduate degree in design and illustration, and Tom went with me and basically... He worked in a factory and juggled on the weekend, and that... And he paid for all of the time I was in graduate school. And then and then I finished and then we moved back to Virginia.
He learned a lot from what I was learning. So it was neat. I would share my projects with him and talk about everything with him. And I think he picked it up through osmosis, but he actually, his path was really different. He was working in a factory, but then eventually ended up becoming a newspaper reporter, both in Ohio and then back in Virginia.
And he was really good at it. And I think that's how he became a writer, was through newspaper writing. And his first book, which was about a group of kids exploring the local sewage department. That was based on a story that he wrote for the newspaper. Anyway he's a huge - Tom Angelberger is probably the reason I'm talking to you right now is because he put me through school.
He was the one that, I think he understood me before. I understood me in a lot of ways.
Jarrett: Wow. Wow. Wow. I, that's beautiful. I feel like that story you just told us could be... Like a limited series on a streaming service. That is just such a beautiful, that could be a romantic comedy or something, Cece, that's amazing. Wow. So you landed back in Virginia, you got hitched you got hitched and smart to travel across country together to see if you could survive that your relationship could survive that before marriage that's smart. That should be a requirement. So why, so he was writing for the newspaper.
And were you like what were you hoping to do with your illustrations? Did you have books for kids in mind? Did you like what were you thinking?
Cece: Gosh, when we moved back to Virginia, I was, we were both 25 and we moved back mostly because Tom was homesick for the mountains. I would've stayed in Ohio.
And I actually applied for a job at American Greeting, which was, or I think it's still in Cleveland and did not get that job. What were they thinking? But I didn't get hired by American Greeting. And I was bummed cuz it was in a, that the office space was just beautiful and the employees would get these like every other year sabbaticals and it was beautiful.
So I was pretty sad, but Tom wanted to go back to Virginia and I did. And so we did, and when we first came back Tom had trouble finding a newspaper job, but I got a job as an illustrator and designer for a small company. That made exotic pet supplies.
So for three years I was making packaging and writing copy and doing all this stuff for this little company in Virginia. And the work was really great because it forced me to learn how to use Photoshop. And at the time it was called Freehand, like illustrator. You may remember Freehand.
Jarrett: Yeah.
Cece: And it forced me to learn to use the computer. I, my time in graduate school, the computer stuff was just starting. It was more, we were using a Xerox machine and cutting and pasting and using all that old, Ruby list kind of stuff. So the computer was still really new. So that job was good because it forced me to learn those things.
But I was working for the devil. Satan himself was my boss and I had to get outta there. And so I don't know if you've ever seen this show, The Prisoner, the it's that British show and the beginning, the introduction has the prisoner is an FBI - not FBI, Secret Service agent. And he he quits his job and he like throws his keys down and storms out.
I had visions that, that, that was how I was going to quit. But instead I got up like at 5:30 in the morning and I wrote a note and I put it in an envelope with the key. And I crept into my boss's office and put the envelope on his desk and it basically said I quit and don't contact me ever. And then I snuck out and I was at no two weeks notice.
Ugh, I was pretty shabby, but I was so glad to get out in there. And then from that, I started freelancing at this crazy local paper... Paper product place that licensed stuff. Like I got to make folders that featured N-Sync and the, whatever those boys are called, those boy bands. Yes, I Want it That Way.
And I got to make all these school supplies for N-Sync and with the Crayola stuff on there, and it was this crazy hodgepodge. It was the best job. And so when I was doing that, it freed me up to start thinking about kids books and my graduate thesis had been this wackadoodle children's book that will never is the light of day, but the illustrations are great.
And the story's not so good, but I thought the illustrations were great, but anyway So then I started to think; "Maybe I can do this." And I finally had an idea that I felt like it was good enough to pursue, and I pursued it and I made this really polished dummy that I could that I could send out.
And at the time Candlewick Press was accepting ,accepting work without an agent, unsolicited stuff. So I sent it to Candlewick and like three months later there was a message on the answering machine. Which of course I didn't understand because I don't understand that. I don't understand answering machine messages, but Tom was there once again, Tom did a rescue and he is; "Oh my gosh, it's Candlewick Press!".
And So I didn't, I, that was it. That was my end. And the rest is history .
Jarrett: And what book was that?
Cece: That book was "Sock Monkey goes to Hollywood."
Jarrett: Oh, yes. I remember the Sock Monkey books and, wow. That's right. Wow. So what and what year was that?
Cece: Oh, my gosh, that came out.
Oh yeah. So the, that was the year 2000 was when I got the message from Candlewick, but it didn't come out until 2003 because I didn't have an agent. And I had to get a lawyer to help me read the contract as those contracts are... It wasn't until later that I got an agent, and God bless agents because I never wanna read another contract ever again. But it just took a long time because it was my first and I didn't have representation at the time. So that came out in 2003.
Jarrett: Yeah.
Cece: Yeah.
Jarrett: Yeah. And because now I'm connecting all of the dots, because then... It was maybe a few years after that is when I first met you and Tom at, we were in a gallery show together and I had just thought; "That's the famous Cece Bell, she's been around.
"These books have been out for years now. And I don't know if I'm allowed to talk to the famous Cece Bell who makes the Sock Monkey books." And there, you were just getting started.
Cece: Yeah. Oh, I really was just getting started and I wasn't famous at all. I remember Ashley Bryan was there and Grace Lynn was there.
Jarrett: Yeah.
Cece: And at the time I was a huge Grace Lynn fan, still am, but I think, I still think of her as this icon. She already felt iconic that all the way back then. And I was so in awe of her and that sensation that I had, then it's still there. Anytime I see her, I just turn a jelly like; "Oh, it's Grace Lynn! Baah!"
And so she was there and I remember the book that you were talking about was the the animal punk rock band.
Jarrett: Yeah.
Cece: Book. Yeah.
Jarrett: Yeah. Punk Farm!
Cece: And you already had the JJK thing going on. You were like Mr. PR and...
Jarrett: No, but I was only a few years in then too, that my first book was 2001 and Punk Farm was 2005, I think.
Cece: Punk Farm.
Jarrett: Still trying to get my stuff out there, and learning how to be on stage. Cause I used to have incredible stage fright. I hated performing. I hated going on stage. And then that became part of the job that I have. So I'm curious and because I know for me, I had been working on Lunch Lady that whole time.
But the world wasn't quite ready for kids graphic novel. So you're plugging away on these picture books. How does El Deafo thread into that? I'm assuming that was something that was knocking around your head for, so for some years, right?
Cece: It, in fact it was not knocking around my head at all.
And honestly I was purposefully not writing about my experience on purpose and it's much like how I was in school. I don't want anybody to know this thing about me. And I want everybody to think I'm smart. And I had the same feeling about my picture books and early reader books. I just wasn't ready to talk about it in any way, not just in books, but in any and every way.
There was an event that happened in which I had this really difficult interaction with a grocery store cashier. And she made me feel like the lowest person on earth. And it was all because I couldn't understand her. And I was so upset by that interaction and the person I was most upset at with myself, because at no point during that interaction, did I ever say; "I'm deaf!" Or; "I have trouble hearing." Or; "Could you please repeat that?"
Because I had so much trouble saying those things. I still had not come to grips with a lot of it. And at that point I was 40 years old. 40! And I was so mad... At everything. And I was mad at hearing people for not understanding and just frustrated and mad at me. And so I started a website and the website was called, eldeafo.com.
And El Deafo really was the nickname that I called myself, as a kid, but only to myself, nobody else knew about it. And I just started writing about it. And my post were more about more directed at hearing people like; "This is what you should do if you're talking to a lip reader." That kind of thing.
But then I wrote a little, my, my origin story. I wrote that up and a friend of mine who was a wonderful writer named Madeline Rosenberg. She was reading it and she said; "Oh my goodness, you have got to turn this into something. Please turn this into something, please turn it into a graphic novel." And so we have Madeline Rosenberg to thank for this.
And so it was her encouragement and I had just read Raina Telgemeier's Smile, and that thing's a masterpiece. And I could see, I could tell that Raina's methods would really work for a story like this. And I was really excited about it because from the word go, I knew that they were gonna be rabbits.
And I knew that the speech bubbles were going to be... The most important part of telling the story of my experience with deafness. So that's how that all came to me. And I was ready. I was ready. I felt like this book is going to be my calling card. This book is going to tell the world for me that I'm deaf.
And then sure enough, after the book came out, I was finally able to talk about it. It was like, it worked. Yay.
Jarrett: Yeah.
Cece: And it was such relief.
Jarrett: And I, and again, I could understand that journey. So earlier when I was talking about I, I was making Lunch Lady I probably should have compared it more to Hey Kiddo in that for me too.
When I was first getting published and news reporters would wanna ask, they ask; "Why were you being raised by your grandparents?"" And I thought, I don't want that to be, I don't wanna be labeled as the child of an addict. I wanna be the Jarrett, who's making the books and I wanna be the Punk Farm guy or the Lunch Lady guy.
And, but then there's this thing that you've lived and you're processing it and it's trauma and you're an adult, but you're still dealing with it. And then suddenly this thing that you've wanted to put inside a box your whole life, you're gonna put in a graphic memoir, like a hundreds of pages for everyone to see what was the creative process like for you?
And I love that you made them rabbits. That's it's so perfect cuz of the ears, but also because you're Cece Bell, it's just so silly. Like they could have been talking hot dogs and it's still would've worked, but could you tell us a little bit about... The creative process and how that intersected with the emotional journey you had.
Cece: Wow. I was, when I decided to commit to it, I was really excited about it. And I think because I didn't have any experience with graphic novels. I knew that I had to do a little bit of studying up and probably like a lot of folks who were in this business. I started with Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics, which is, probably the most important book about comics I've ever seen.
And I read it three times. I was just amazed by the whole thing. I read it three times. Once I, after the third time I thought to myself, I'm ready. I'm ready to go. And the process was just, I basically did a a notebook dump. I just wrote down everything I could remember, but I limited myself to the moment that I lost my hearing to fifth grade, and I just wrote all my memories down all my experiences and then tightened that up into an outline.
And it was the outline and a a chapter. I drew out a chapter and that's what I sent to Susan Van Metre at Abrams Books. She was at Abrams at the time and she was Tom's editor for the Origami Yoda series. And I was really impressed with her. I had met her a couple of times and something told me she was the right person for it.
That's what I sent to her, but the process was just a lot of back and forth between doing just these little sketches for each page kind of blocking out what's supposed to happen and then writing out what people are supposed to say, and then just mushing it together. And the process felt very organic compared to picture books, the picture books, I always feel like you've gotta get the text absolutely perfect. And there was a lot less of that for me, with the graphic novel, it was so much looser and more fun, I think. And that's all I can, that's all I can say. It was just, it was a really good experience.
Jarrett: That's and that, that book is such a gift. I still have. The advanced reader's copy that they handed out to promote the book.
I'll never, that's maybe in 50 years, I'll sell it on eBay to get me through . But I think it's only with the medium of comics, like a prose novel would not have worked to tell this story as effectively, because with your visuals, you are able to play with the word balloons and the size of the text to really help me and hearing people understand your journey and, and that obviously that's a help to us with hearing, but for, the whole generation of kids who are growing up with hearing loss and who are deaf.
Have you - that - I can't even imagine what this book has meant to them. And I'm assuming you hear from readers with hearing loss and deafness could you share a few stories like that must get emotionally overwhelming at times?
Cece: Sure. There have been, the response was just so positive.
The kids that I've heard from who have had experiences like mine, they just get so excited to see their story and to see something that's familiar to them. It's not exactly their story maybe, but they get it. And they're really happy to have something to show their families and their friends. "This is what it's like!"
And... Also just a lot of kids have had the experience of hearing their teacher in the bathroom. And it's great to have that validated. "Yeah. I've been there too. Yay." That's probably, everybody's favorite part in the book. That's my favorite part in the book. That was the chapter that I submitted to Susan that yeah. Hearing teacher.
Jarrett: That's perfect.
Cece: Yeah. So the kids have been great. And, but somehow the more affecting stories for me were the adults who had grown up in a very similar way that I had with the same equipment, even the phonic ear and the microphone and many of them said; "This is the first time I have ever seen anything remotely, like my story in a book."
And I ended up making friends with a lot of adults with hearing loss, which wasn't something I had a lot of, I'm very much in the hearing world because my family is all hearing. And I think for so long, I thought of myself as a hearing person. I am, I'm a hearing person when I stick my hearing aids in and I'm a deaf person when they're out, but I'm both of those things all the time I'm in between all the time.
And so it was just really cool to get this new group of people who completely understood and just... Those are the ones that get me. But then in terms of the kids, probably my favorite story ever was a little girl who was struggling with having to get hearing aids. And she was very afraid of it all.
And so she found my book and read it, and that helped her be less afraid. And she was at the audiologist office. And at that point she was very comfortable and okay with everything she was going through. But there was a little boy at the office who was crying and she happened to have her copy of El Deafo and she gave him her copy. Ugh. And that was just that really got me so...
Jarrett: Wow!
Cece: It was just neat. It's neat that it's being used in a helpful way. And I never thought that I would ever create a book that would help people, my other books that are just silly and funny and goofy. Sometimes I feel guilty for those books. I'm like; "Sure, maybe they help kids read, but what good are they doing?" So it's really nice to have this one book that I know helps people,
Jarrett: Yeah. Yeah. And, that's something that I struggled to... Especially when we're seeing every awful, horrific headline in the news. And there have been times where I've worried; "But what does this silly story matter?"
But they do, those silly stories do matter. I under- I understand that inner struggle because you have made something that connects with readers on this whole other level. So I'm curious, I'd like to know a little bit more about this Apple TV+ limited series of El Deafo. It, my kids requested to watch it because they had read the book and what you did with the visuals in El Deafo, the book to help hearing people understand your deaf experience.
The sound scape in the TV show helped me understand on a, on an entirely different level. And it, I had to say Cece, it felt like a animated special we've had for decades. It felt like a Charles Schulz, Peanuts, Charlie Brown, Snoopy, special. Like it was that level of just beauty and taking the time to tell the story.
How did that come about?
Cece: Wow Jarrett. You just said the magic words to me. That was what I wanted. I wanted that peanut feel that Christmas special Peanuts feel. Where it's not exactly perfect, but the imperfections or what make it interesting, there's something really unusual about that Charlie Brown, Christmas special that on paper, it shouldn't work at all. It's a mess. Even some of the story doesn't make sense and yet you stick it all together and yay. It works. But so thank you for that. That means a lot. So that television show came about a he's my friend now, but back then, he wasn't my friend.
He was somebody. Greatly admired and still admired, Will McRob who is one of the co-creators of one of my favorite TV shows of all time, the Adventures of Pete and Pete, which was on Nickelodeon in the 90s, he, out of the blue sent me an email and said; "I like your book. Let's turn it into a show!"
And so that was how it got started, but it took him a long time to convince me because I felt like the book was I don't know, to me, at least it felt sacred and I didn't wanna mess that up. And I knew that there were a lot of fans of the book who also felt that love for it. And I didn't wanna mess that up, but I started to think, there's not many, if any characters on TV who are like me in that we are deaf people who have chosen or because of our circumstances, we have gotten through life with hearing aids, not without, but with, and you don't see very much of that on TV and in a movie. And in fact, when there are deaf characters in movies, at least, like back in the 70s and 80s, when we grew up not only was the deaf character made fun of, but the equipment was too, the actual hearing aid was somehow part of the... Was being made fun of, and, hearing aids are not perfect and they're greatly flawed little things, but they've really helped me and the phonic ear from the book I'm in... Once again, I would not be here talking to you without that piece of equipment. I don't think maybe I would've, but I don't think so, but anyway I just started to think, this kind of needs to be this could be really good for deaf kids and hearing kids to have a show like this. So that's how it came about.
And I signed on once I I was very demanding. I had to put on those big girl pants and be like; "Ra ra ra!" Which is not my usual way. But anyway I said it can't be just a series that, goes on a, goes off on its own. It needs to be based on the book. And I want it to look like the book and it can't be 3D animation.
I was like; "Absolutely no 3D, has to be 2D." And my other thing was; "We have to mess with the audio. The audio has to reflect the book in some way." So those were some of my demands. Also the main character had to be played by someone, a kid who also has hearing loss, but is using adaptive equipment to help her.
And in that case, we got a lovely young lady, Lexi Finigan who uses cochlear implants a little bit different from what I do. But she was just fantastic. So I was very demanding.
Jarrett: I I'm so glad that you were because, so often these animated adaptations of work the author of the underlying material is the last person they wanna work with. And I think that the work suffers from that cuz so it really, you went in there with, a limited amount of things that would really like you're quote-unquote "demands". And I, and I get it cuz you have to be assertive in these situations. To say; "Here's what's really important to me." And understanding like a book is a book and a and a TV show is a TV show. Like you're telling story with anything that's animated or film. You're telling stories with visuals and sounds, and time, which is different than a book. And you all just hit it right out of the park.
I, when it comes to the Emmys, I hope you win all of the awards for this piece. It's an instant classic. It's just so perfect. And you narrat I could, I didn't know that. So I put it on and I, and my wife, Gina was in the other room she came and went; "Is that Cece? Cece's voice is coming from the TV?"
Cece: Yeah, that was pretty neat. At first the director who is. From Lighthouse Studios in Ireland, a woman named Gilly Fogg, who was absolutely terrific, when she first heard that I wanted to narrate it. Oh, not that I wanted to narrate it, but just the idea of a narrator. She said; "Oh no, we don't want that. That's, no thank you." But Will, and I, when we were writing the script together, we realized that if we were going to mess with the audio, that it was going to be confusing and that we needed there to be a voice ex- kind of just explaining, giving kids a few clues that no, your TV isn't broken because the narrator's voice would come on and it would be clear.
And and like I think every now and then the narrator says something like, everything was quiet and I think the audience needs that. Otherwise they're gonna be, hitting their TV. "What's wrong?" She did not like that idea. The director said; "No, no narrator." And so Will said; "What if Cece narrates it?"
And then she just lit up and she said; "Aha, yes, that's what we need to do." Because it did need to be my voice. You've probably heard people talking about the deaf accent, where there are certain sounds that I don't hear very well. And so my voice is a little different and that was important.
People need to hear what that voice sounds like, which is why one of the reasons why we cast a deaf actress, because we need to have that specific sound. And I used to be very ashamed of that deaf accent, but not anymore. I don't really, that's just how I talk. So that is how that came to be, but I had to take acting classes, Jarrett, I am now... That's the end. And the woman - I know I am acting.
And she was fantastic. I think I had about three or four sessions with her and it was almost more like therapy. I don't know she was magical and she's a lovely woman. And just, it actually really helped just, it was more about "here's how to take direction and then use that direction and go with it."
And this all happened during COVID. And so I recorded all of my lines in my bedroom. They sent me all this equipment and Tom and I set it up and I was pretty much in my closet. And that it was pretty neat. It was pretty neat getting to do the whole thing from home.
Jarrett: You, but, okay. But you do deserve the limo.
That's gonna bring you to the studio. So I hope that we get something more so that you can have a personal assistant that you throw your phone to, and if you don't like the food, they prepared, you just throw it against the wall in a fit of rage. I guess you could do that for Tom.
I guess you could like Tom, could, he would do that for you. If that's gonna make you happy, like he would totally be game for that
Cece: It was frustrating that I didn't get to have some of the experiences, like I was supposed to be able to go to Ireland and hang out with the animation studio for a couple weeks.
Wow. So that got canned. And I was supposed to go out to LA to to work with the audio team. That didn't work. But the funny thing is that because we had all of our meetings on zoom, it was actually better because when I'm in a meeting, oh, like around a table in real life, I miss probably 70 or 80% of what's being said, because I lose the thread.
If that makes sense. I can't, I can only do, one or two people. And then I'm lost because of their lip reading. But with everybody's face right in front of me, everybody's facing me, look at me, , they're all facing me. That makes me sound like they're looking at me, we have to look at our computers, right?
You have to look at our computers when we do them. And so I didn't miss anything. And... That gave me a lot more confidence to help run the show. Oh yeah. So it was actually a benefit in a weird way that we were all stuck at home
Jarrett: A as well. You should run the show Cece, wow. That all of your hard work as a team made for a beautiful animated program, and there's, as I said, it so reminded me of the Charlie Brown specials, cause it also took its time. There was moments of silence. There, there were moments where it wasn't just a lot of fast cuts and my five year old son who... Has a very short tension span. Loves video games. Like it, it actually was very calming to him. We'd watch it at the end of the day, as a treat, as a family watch and he would ask for Cece, he wouldn't call it El Deafo, he'd say, could we watch Cece?
And so they all connected with you on this whole other level. So we're gonna wrap things up in a bit be before we do in the chat. So what I'll give you one audience question, cuz I don't wanna keep you too much longer. What are you working on Cece? Is there anything you can tell us about? What do we have to look forward to?
Cece: Oh so I am working on of all things, an alphabet book. That's crazy, but so I love music and that's something that a lot of hearing folks are surprised by that.
Deaf people can love music and my hearing aids are pretty good. And I grew up with my older siblings bringing in all this great music usually from thrift stores. And we had this fantastic turntable, that we used at home. That is mine now. Thank goodness. Great speakers. And so I really love music and I especially love the visuals that went with the music, the album covers.
So this is an alphabet book of fake album covers that are animals playing different genres. And and all I'm making memorabilia and writing songs and smushing it all together in this book. So part of it is hopefully it'll be fun, but it's a very personal project because as I've gotten older, I am losing more hearing.
And now it's a genetic hearing loss because my father and his grandfather and father, on down the line, they all had pretty significant hearing loss. So I'm starting to lose. My ability to appreciate music, which sucks in a big way. So this is my my outpouring of love visually for music.
And it's been so much fun. I'm doing all the hand lettering. I'm doing weird paintings and it's been a lot of fun so far, but a lot of work because it's so personal, I'm taking my time with it. And my editor is Susan Van Metre, the same one who is working, who worked on El Deafo with me.
And I just got an extension, Jarrett. Yay! The best thing ever to happen is when you tell your editor, "I need more time" and they give it to you. So that's what I'm...
Jarrett: Awesome.
Cece: Very personal and I just wanted to do something that didn't have so much of a story, just fun. And there's thought of a story that the story of my own personal relationship with music, but but that's what I've been working on.
Jarrett: Oh we will be patient Cece Bell! It has been very challenging, challenging times and concepts lately, cuz of the pandemic deadlines have seemed like wonderful suggestions. I know my editors won't want to hear that, but it's been, to get that art out of you also need to be in a pretty decent enough Headspace.
So I'm glad to know that. Yes, you're getting more time and we are gonna get more Cece Bell and the world and we're also, we're lucky to have you in this world. We're lucky that you make art. We're lucky that Tom Angelberger supported you and took you off that track and put you on a different track that you wanted to be on.
And what a beautiful thing to have anyone in this world who would love you so much to show you your true self and what an amazing story from the exotic pet packaging to N-Sync. I did not think I would be able to run a thread between Cece Bell and N-Sync in this interview, but wow. Wow.
That's very cool. I will think of you whenever I see an N-Sync lunch box at a thrift store or something like that. .
Cece: Oh, please. Yeah. If you ever find school supplies like a notebook and folders, I should have sent you pictures. They're they're just I know everything about Justin Timberlake.
Let me tell you, I know everything about, the way he looked and his signature, we got to use all this stuff that they sent us. It was great.
Jarrett: Ah I'm gonna make...
Cece: I would say a lot of the same things about you. Your work has been so important and inspiring and funny and and your support of other authors and illustrators is amazing. I think I'm a little bit more self-centered honestly, you're just like "everybody else is fantastic!" And I really appreciate that. You're really good about doing that. So thank you.
Jarrett: I appreciate that your kind words, but in a way, what we all do is self-centered because we're scratching that creative itch we've always had.
And, we're lucky enough that we love to make books and we didn't forget who we were as kids and kids find those really funny or entertaining, or they get to see themselves reflected in that true life experience. I...
Cece: Yes.
Jarrett: ... Cannot pass up a chance to make a really bad pun in this moment.
Cece, I'm gonna sign off by saying... Bye bye bye. It was so bad, right? That was so stupid. That was such a bad joke.
Ain't no bad joke.
Ain't no lie. I say it. It might sound crazy, but it ain't no lie. Cece I appreciate you. And thanks for taking the time to chat with us today.
Cece: Absolutely. Thank you, Jarrett.