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Welcome to 'Living in Tulsa Oklahoma,' the podcast that dives deep into the heartbeat of Tulsa Oklahoma! Whether you're a long-time Tulsan, a new resident, or just Tulsa-curious, join us as we explore the hidden gems, cultural hotspots, and community dialogues that make this city unique. In each episode, we'll feature interviews with locals and transplants who share their stories, experiences, and perspectives on life in the former Oil Capital of the World. From historical insights to modern-day musings, 'Living in Tulsa Oklahoma' is your guide to living and thriving in Tulsa Oklahoma. Tune in, engage, and celebrate this vibrant community with us.
Why Tulsa Surprised Mark Radcliffe
And I just I was looking around. I was like, there's art, there's music, there's there's murals, creatives are
embraced. It's a gay friendly town. It's got business. It's got water. It's got the river. It's got cycling. It's got
athletic people. It's got food. It's got barbecue. It's got passion. It's got authenticity. It's got character. I was
like, how have I not heard more about Tulsa before? You can have a city that's got great industry and great um career
options and all that, but if you don't have the arts, if you don't have a some sort of creative soul to your city, it's
not going to really catch fire and grow.
[Music] Okay, so we all have that one cool friend. And Mark, I don't know if you
know this, but you're actually my coolest friend ever. I surely am not your only one cool
friend. No, I have cool friends, but you take cool to like a completely different
level. So, we're talking about house concerts and you're a musician and do
improv and a big New York City marketing guy in Tulsa now. So, the cool factor
just went way up. Ah, guilty is charged. Yes. Somewhat. I don't I don't know how cool that makes me. Might just make mean I'm
really restless. Like that's really the heart of it. Well, let's let's unpack a couple of
things and start with your how you felt the first time you even
thought about Oklahoma. Yes. Your reaction. Right. So, I'll give a little context.
So, I grew up in New England. I grew up in Maine and Vermont. Small towns, towns of 20,000, 30,000 people. Never thought
I'd leave New England. And I've now lived in 26 cities. 2 26 places uh
including Sydney, Australia, New York City, Boston, Portland, Oregon, Seattle, Atlanta, LA, New York City twice. Uh so
I've lived in a lot of places. Um but my first 25 years are really in New England and small towns. And it wasn't I it took
From New York to Tulsa Remote
I think going to Australia for my junior year abroad awakened me to the idea of like, oh, not just other places, but oh,
I think I'm a city guy. And so I I didn't I didn't know that about myself. And so I bounced around. I work in
advertising as a creative director and a writer. I'm also a musician. My bank account will tell you an I'm I'm an
advertising creative director. Uh I do a lot of writing in a lot of different ways, but I was in New York and having a
a very good run of it. And and then uh right before the pandemic uh settled in
in early 2020, I was like, I think it's time for me to take a take a little journey. I don't know if I'm leaving New
York forever or coming back, but I'm going to take a break. And then once the pandemic happened, I was like, well, I'm not staying in this town while it's
closed down for a year or two. And so I started looking around at options and where am I going to go?
Shouldn't I be in the wilderness? And then I found out about this program called Tulsa Remote through an article in the New York Times. And my first
reaction was, well, that's, you know, Tulsa Remote, for those who don't know, is a a city enrichment program by the
George B. Kaiser Foundation that brings remote digital talent in general from other cities, other places to Tulsa. if
you can do your job from anywhere, come do it from Tulsa. Um, there's a there's a move package involved which helps. Um,
when I first heard about I was like, well, that's cool. I mean, I don't I don't think I'd move to Tulsa, but uh,
good for Tulsa. And then I was like, the curiosity crept in and I was like, well,
how are they what is like Tulsa like? I don't think I've even driven through. And I basically lived on both coasts,
you know, 20 different ways. And so, finally, I started doing a lot of Googling, went to the Tulsa remote website and then talked to my musician
friends. And so I was like, "What do you know about Tulsa?" And they were all like, "Do not sleep on Tulsa, man. That's one of our favorite cities in the
country. We go there. We always try to stay two or three days. It's unbelievable. We don't know why more people don't know about it."
So I was like, "All right, I'm intrigued." And then um I eventually applied to Tulsa Remote and and got in
and uh and moved here in September 2020. But to to your point, my first reaction was middle of the country. Is that is
that me? I've never done it, but I've lived in small towns. I've lived in the biggest towns. Maybe this
is the right time to try something in between. And I'm clearly I'm like up for change. I'm up for trying something new.
And and I ever since I got here, it's just gone amazingly. So, well, I think that in one of our
conversations before you said that, you know, when you go to cities, you pick the cities and they're usually booming
and you feel like you got Tulsa like right before the boom. Yeah. So, it's I was in uh I was on a
vacation with a friend of mine for his 40th birthday party right before the pandemic in early 2020 in Tulum. I don't
know if you've been to Tulum, but it's this unbelievable, you know, on the ocean in Mexico. And
and uh and I asked the guy who owned the house we were renting. I was like, "When did you get this when he's like he's
like, you know, man, I was in the 60s and 70s. I was going to Key West and all these places and I was too late." And I
Discovering Tulsa’s Creative Soul
found out about Tulum in 1981 and like or whatever the year was and he came here. I was like, "Oh, I'm going to get
here right before this blows up." And he bought and he bought a house for like 150 grand that's worth 6 million
now. Something insane. And that's how I felt when I got to Tulsa. I got here and I looked I I was
just in my interview weekend for Tulsa Remote back back when it was smaller numbers. That was in year two. First
year was 2019. I was part of 2020. They used to fly you in for if you've never been to Tulsa, we're going to fly you
in, make sure you like it, which I think is really smart. It's sort of a, you know, let's date before we get married kind of polish. Come for a four
or five day trip and we'll we'll put you up. We'll we'll whine and dine you. We'll show you around. Just make sure you know what you're getting into so you
don't move here and then decide you hate it. It wasn't what you expected and then you leave. So, uh, and I came for for
that for that four or five days. And I just I was looking around. I was like, there's art, there's music,
there's there's murals, creatives are embraced, it's a gay friendly town, it's got business, it's got the water, it's
got the river, it's got cycling, it's got athletic people, it's got food, it's got barbecue, it's got passion, it's got
authenticity, it's got character. I was like, how have I not heard more about Tulsa before?
So, I was like, and I was I actually spent the summer in Park City, Utah. When I left New York, I didn't get into
to Tulsa remote right away. I hadn't heard about it. So, I I spent the summer in Park City where I ski a lot and hung out with some friends and did some
mountain biking, but it was a pretty quiet town. It was kind of locked down. People weren't being that social. And I
got to Tulsa. I was like, "No, this is what I'm doing. This is this has got the energy and the heart and the character."
And I went to like the Mercury Lounge and I saw live music and I was like, "This just has authenticity for days." I
was like, "I'm moving to Tulsa, Oklahoma." Now, from that's such a neat story and I love it. I really love your story,
especially since you've been to lived in so many places, you know, coast to coast and Australia and you've been to all the
places. So, I love that. From 2020 till now, do you feel like there's been a lot
of change or do you feel like it's still the same? How I think it's I think it's growing. I
don't I don't know that um it's been a seismic change, but I I I I will say
there's there's an ongoing evolution that I like and and I'm I'm I'm excited about and you know there's new building.
I mean I think for you know a while the world you know there's really it's hard to say how long the pandemic was but
sort of two and a half years for some things that were closed down and I'm still a remote worker. I still work
remotely for New York City ad agencies for the most part. So, you know, we've we're still kind of getting back to that
pre- pandemic level of everything is in person, everything's in the building, everyone's going out to eat all the
time. And I've So, for a little while, you know, there wasn't much building development going on, but house there were people
like me moving from all over. People from Dallas, Houston, Austin, even Denver, a lot of people were moving to
town. San Francisco had a lot lot of Tulsa Motors from the Bay Area. And so, houses were selling. And then there was
development. But I feel like every every month there's a cool new restaurant, there's another music venue or there's
Life During the Move & Finding Community
another artist. You too is coming to Tulsa within the week. They're being honored for the Woody Guthrie Award this
year and they'll be at Kane's Ballroom. Two of the four members of you two. So every month I feel like there's just
another amazing signpost that cool things are happening in Tulsa. We've got film making happening here. Martin
Scorsesei shot Killers of the Flower Moon. Ethan Hawk was here last year shooting this amazing TV show called
Lowdown. Everybody should be watching it. Um, and it's they're going to find out soon if it gets renewed for season
two. I'm optimistic. Uh, there's six or seven movies she's shooting in Tulsa this summer. Stallone shot Tulsa King
here. Um, and I just feel like we're getting so many encouraging signposts that the momentum is swinging to Tulsa.
Um, it's things are growing, things are moving, things are evolving. Uh there's
new buildings going on downtown. I lived at the Mayo Hotel my first year and there's this really cool empty building up the street called the Sinclair
and I was like somebody's got to take this. What is this is a this if this building were in Tribeca, New York City,
this would be filled with $10 million apartments. This has got great bones. And finally that building got developed last year. It's
called the Exchange Apartments in Sinclair. So I feel like I'm, you know, I'm always
I'm, you know, on Instagram and I'm always curious. I'm looking around and every week I feel like it's still
happening. It's growing. It's getting better. It's moving in the right direction. Uh a friend of mine in my
neighborhood when I first was looking around my neighborhood and we we'll talk about where I live now. Uh I was like, "How long you been here
and how do you like Tulsa?" He's like, "I've been here 30 years, but Tulsa has changed more in the last 5 years than in the previous 25." And he said that five
years ago. So I think I think that sort of progression is still happening and uh I'm very excited about it. Well,
I find so much stuff the cool things to do from not the locals, but from people that really come from Tulsa remote,
people like you, um that are like, "No, you've got to check out this place or you've got to check out this place." When I was in high school, downtown
Tulsa was dead and it was, you know, it was kind of scary. You didn't want to be there. I've heard people like, "You live
there?" Yeah. Yeah. So, let's talk about your neighborhood that you live in and how
kind of how you discovered it. And you've I think you told me it kind of reminds you of Holiday Hills.
Is that correct or not? Uh yeah, it it reminded me of a couple things. Uh uh a little bit Yeah. of the
Hollywood Hills and a little bit of Maine where I grew up. The kind of windy twisting neighborhoody roads with trees
everywhere. Um so yeah, I I'd moved to Tulsa and I' I'd been living in cities for 20 years.
I've had onebedroom apartments for 20 years. And my last one one-bedroom
apartment in New York cost $4,000 a month and it was $480 ft. And people thought I had a pretty good deal.
Wow. So, and it was in a great neighborhood. It was in the West Village. And I had a great life. And you're in New York City,
you're never at your apartment. You you you live in the city. You sleep at your apartment. You shower there. You change
clothes there. You live in the city. Uh, and so but I I I yeah I had never owned a house and all that, but I I in the
back of my head I've always been like one day I'm going to own a I'm going to own a house. And I've been for those of you are architecture fans or modern
architecture. I've been subscribing to Dwell magazine for 22 years. Okay. And it's basically it's sort of like an
architectural digest with a little more of a modern twist, a little more into minimalism, a little less classical
classically focused than architectural digest. And I've been seeing these homes in great parts of the country, usually
California or Austin with wherever there's a modern aesthetic. And I was like, one day I will own or build a
house like this. And then I got to Tulsa and I was like, "All right, I'm here for a year. Maybe I'll stay a little longer, but I'm
I'll write out the pandemic while I'm here and I'll have an adventure and maybe I'll stay." And very quickly I was like, "I think
I'm staying. This is going great. The energies here is fantastic. I'm playing live music
once a week. my career is still going well. Everyone is so warm and friendly. People are funny. They're open-minded.
Creating the Tulsa Treehouse in Reservoir Hill
There's it's conversational. It's social. And so, at some point, I was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna buy a house. And then I was like, I'm going to build
a house. I'm going to build a modern prefab, some kind of modern house on my own. All this reading of Dwell magazine
is finally going to pay off and I'm going to build something here in Tulsa. And so, I started look I was living at the Mayo Hotel my first year
and I I almost bought a house my interview weekend. It was like $220,000 house. The neighborhood's called the
Heights now north of Tulsa. And I was like, how is this all this like in Portland, Oregon? This would be
an $800,000 house. This is a brand new, newly run. It's it's an older house was renovated Craftsman style. And I was
like, should I just buy this tomorrow? And I was like, "All right, slow down. Live in live in an apartment building
for a year." Like, there's a lot of change. The pandemic is a big change. Leaving New York for Tulsa is a big change.
Working remotely, like working from home all day is a big change. So, don't also leave apartment living for a house.
You'll probably explode. So, I I stayed at the I lived at the Mayo Hotel for my first year for those
who don't know. It's half hotel, half residences. And they hired me as their weekly musician to play in their penthouse bar
cuz I played the piano every night in their lobby. And they're like, "Hey, we're reopening our our penthouse bar.
We need musicians. Do you want to play?" I was like, "Sign me up." So, I just went from the elevator, the 13th floor to the 18th floor. She didn't know that story.
It was great. So, everything went my way. my first I just I felt like everything
this town is on my side and it wants me to stay and I want to stay and let's keep it going. So, I'm going to buy a
house. And I started looking around and I had a great uh realtor named Libby Bobian.
And she had already shown me probably 20 homes around town. I thought I wanted to live in uh Lortonale, buy a mid-century
modern home. I always love the designs. It was a little sleepy at the time. It's much younger now. I remember thinking
it's kind of an older crowd, but maybe I'll be part of the next generation. And I went back and sure enough, all the homes have been flipped and it's all 35y
olds now. Um, but so I was like, you know what, show me some empty lots around town with
some cool features. So she sent me to a neighborhood I hadn't heard of called Reservoir Hill, which is in North Tulsa. It's about a
mile and a half north of downtown. And it's up a hill as you go through the heights and up Denver. You you wouldn't
know it's there. A lot of Tulsans who've lived here 40 years have never been there, never heard of it. My Uber drivers all the time like, "Where are we
going?" I'm like, "You're we're going to Reservoir Hill, baby. You're going to like it." And they get up there and they're like, "What is this? We've got views. We're up
on a hill. It's cool architecture." And to me, it felt like a little bit of like the Hollywood Hills, but kind of hidden
away. If you know LA really well, there's a there's a part of of sort of the North Hollywood area called Laurel
Canyon. It's where like all these iconic bands like Tom Petty and Fleetwood Mack recorded. It has this artistic vibe.
It's kind of hidden away in the woods and the houses are a little concealed by trees, but they're modern. It's chill
and you just get this artistic vibe. And I was like, Reservoir Hill is the Laurel Canyon of Tulsa and I'm going to live
here. And so she sent me to an empty lot um which was four lots combined as one.
And I was like, I don't need four lots. It was it was $250,000. I was like, I don't need to spend that much money.
And and I didn't end up buying. Also, it was 2021, so the construction costs were out of control. Uh, and I I had a couple
of architect friends who are like, "You do not want to build right now. You're going to spend a million dollars building a $500,000 house, and you
should just wait." And luckily, a friend of mine, I was like, "Well, I love this hill. How hard is it to buy houses up
here?" And he said, "Oh, it's impossible." Mhm. I was like, "Because he's like, they don't go to market. They just get sold to friends."
And I was like, "Okay, I don't have many friends up here yet. How am I going to get in there?" She goes, "Well, you know
me." and his name is Casey Stowe and he's like stay in touch and uh you know I know everyone on the hill and
if somebody's trying to sell maybe I can sneak you in there and sure enough three months later his neighbor an local architect named Dwayne and his wife
Robin were selling their house to build another one two doors down and Casey's like I got your buyer you
got to meet this guy and I I met with them and I apparently passed the interview test I said this kind of reminds me of I don't know
if you've been there but this reminds me of Laurel Canyon of of Tulsa and I remember his Dwayne's wife Robin goes he
gets it I'm good with and and she walked off and I moved into our house a few months later. It's this
it's not quite as modern as I would have built in my head, but I'm glad I didn't get what I wanted
cuz it's it's actually this really cool split level home with a lot of different rooms. I wanted this big open floor plan
and no walls and it's all modern and flowing and instead I got something that's flowing but it's interconnected
and you've been there and it's I I now I've nick it's up on the trees it's on a hill so half the house one floor is is
sort of here and the lower floor is below but it's all above grade and it's nestled in the trees and my deck is 30
ft above the the ground and there's trees you can reach out and touch the leaves and I've nicknamed it the Tulsa
treehouse and I've now thrown over 100 parties or or house concerts or brunches
or dinner parties or whatever. And that's what's so cool and that is not a Tulsa thing. Yeah. So,
it's a New York thing. We throw a lot of parties. We Yeah. That was not something that we, you know, that we really do here. So,
Hosting House Concerts & Brunches
you having the brunches, having the house concerts, bringing that alive to Tulsa and your
that view from your patio that is insane. Yeah, that is
gorgeous. No, I think I mean I've been I'm the oldest of three boys and uh and
I've moved around a lot so and my dad wasn't that talkative and I didn't have
so I didn't have an older brother to talk to. So I think at a young age I got used to like well no one's going to
introduce me to anyone. I got to go out there and introduce myself to people and make friends. And I think so at a very young age I got used to like we you know
moved to a new neighborhood like hey I'm Mark I don't know anyone here. What's your name? And I've now done that 24
other times or whatever the number is now. But yeah, so my my career in advertising kept me moving around so
much that I was always chasing the next best job usually wasn't in the town I was living in. It was in Boston this time or Atlanta or Portland or New York
or now it's in LA. And most of the times I moved there and I didn't know anyone. But I and a lot of
people are like especially when I moved here they're like I didn't realize you knew a bunch of people in Tulsa. I was like I didn't know anyone here. Mhm.
And I I view it as, you know, strangers are just friends we haven't met yet. And
um you know, you just kind of like, we just got to talk a little bit. They'll I'll win them over or they we'll we'll
get along just fine. And so I'm also I'm pretty social and I work at home alone all day. And so, you know, now that I'm
a remote worker, I'm just sitting there me and my laptop in a 2500 foot house and I get lonely. And so I'm like, I'm
throwing another big brunch bash, you know, this Sunday. Hey everyone, brunch is on. Uh, Sunday
from 10:00 to 3. And so I So that's how it started is you were just like, I am by myself. I want to
meet people. I've done this I've done versions of this in almost every city. But like I'll I'll say like when I lived in Seattle
for almost two years, I probably threw four or five parties, you know, one every four months. New
York, I threw them a little more often. And then and I and I kind of when I got
here to Tulsa, so many of us were were we're we're when you move in through Tulsa Remote, you're kind of connected with the other Tulsa Motors, but you're
also encouraged like don't just hang out with Tulsa Motors. That's not the idea here. Like become a part of Tulsa. I re
I will say Tulsa Remote really reinforces that value. And I think most of us who were here for a while, we've we've tried to follow that. And that's
how you really, you know, get the richest life possible in Tulsa. You've got to meet, you know, meet the locals. Don't just hang out
with other people from other from the other coastal elite cities that maybe you move from and you know go to the
music venues become with the music friends with the musicians become friends with the artists become friends with you know
all the restaurant owners and like become a Tulsen and uh but since so many of us were new
and didn't know anybody I started throwing parties right away. I'm like well I know you 20 guys but everybody
has to bring a non Tulsa remote person to the party. That was one of my rules for one of my parties. So that started
happening and then once I got the house I'm like I'm just one dude living here alone with 2500 square feet and like
it's a party house. So I started I started throwing a few a few cocktail parties, dinner parties, a holiday
party. I'm also a musician. I've I've been a performing musician for about 25 years as a singer songwriter mostly on
guitar but a little bit on piano. Acoustic rock kind of world and I performed you know a couple times a
month in LA and New York all the years there. I've got six albums out and I
still perform music a lot. But my favorite venue, my favorite sort of way to perform live is in something called
house concerts, which if you've ever been to like a coffee house concert that's chill and like a listening room vibe, like not in a bar where everyone's
shooting pool and doing shots and it's noisy and they're talking. It's a listening room environment like everyone
people this this whole religion of house concerts where touring artists will
cross the country in between playing at bigger venues. They'll need to fill a date here and there and a fan will will
put up a house concert at their place. Come to my house. I'll bring 30 40 50 people out. You'll play in our living
room. We'll clear the furniture out. We'll put seats up. I've got a piano. You bring your acoustic guitar. And it's this really intimate kind of like a
chill quiet cocktail hour, but you're listening to like a nationally touring musician and you're 10 feet from them.
Sometimes there's not even amplification. Uh and you're having this authentic connection with the music.
It's hard. You can't get in a bar, you know. So I It was really cool. I've been to one and it was amazing.
Got another tomorrow night. Yeah, it was it was super. Now, how do you get on the list to get invited to
the house concert? It's it's um we usually we either have to have met or uh
or or friend invites, but it's it's um I'm not exclusionary about it because I'm always kind of like, you know, more
the marrier. And like, you know, I if I need to, you know, get 50 people out all making a donation to the artist,
um I've got to I usually I have to I have to message 250 to get 50 people to come out.
That's Yeah, kind of the rule. So, uh you know, that's usually about what the number is. So yeah, if you don't if you only know 50 people,
you're not getting all 50 to come out to your house concert. So um we're we're at least at 40 people for
tomorrow. I have a house concert tomorrow night for a nationally touring singer songwriter named Ellis Paul I've been following for 25 years and I've seen him
at house concerts and I was like one day I'm going to get this guy at whatever house I eventually own and finally it's
happening tomorrow night. So it's kind of a dream come true. I've been I've been I loved playing house concerts. I
did a house concert tour 10 12 years ago myself. I was I was doing live shows at
bigger venues, but I I really love the house concerts most and now I get to host them and they're a fair bit of
work, but they're just so beautiful. Like it's it's if you haven't done one, go to one. There's there's five or six venues in Tulsa that are hosting them.
Most towns in America have them. They're a little harder to find. and you got to do some googling and social media searching, but they are
this it's kind of this backdoor kind of sneak, you know, hidden door into a
really intimate experience with your favorite artist that you can't get at a larger venue. How often do you say that those happen
in So, you said there's five or six different houses. Yeah, it's just there's there's kind of a new, you know, there's somebody like
Tulsa’s Music Scene: The Next Nashville?
me. There's a guy named Scott AOK hosts them. There's a there was a house called Vox by a guy name I think Chris McCabe,
but he's now runs something I believe called Bellafonte. Uh I just heard there's another one the
other day called like Tulsa House, not the Tulsa Tree House. Let's move on a little bit from that
from the brunches and the house concerts to more of the music scene. And you've
talked about it, you know, you talked about it and touched on it a little bit. Um, I was actually
with you at the art crawl and you were with, you know, several of your friends
and they were saying that, you know, Tulsa is like Nashville before it is the Nashville now. So, tell me a little bit
about the music scene, a little bit more about the music scene here. So, you know, I've lived in a lot of a lot of kind of what a lot of people call
bigger music cities in America. New York, uh, LA, Boston, Portland, Seattle,
uh, Atlanta. Atlanta's got a great music scene. I've visited all most of the other ones. I've I've spent three or
four weeks in in Nashville. I performed there once or twice. Uh and I feel like Tulsa is America's next best great music
city. It's not obviously it's not as big as Austin or Nashville yet, but I I
think it's kind of getting there, but I think it's it's growing in the right way because it's really it supports artists. It's got, you know,
there's there's venues, you know, from the Mercury Lounge. And if anyone hasn't been to the Mercury Lounge if you want to see a really authentic, gritty, un,
you know, filtered musical experience, go to the Mercury Lounge. It's kind of Americana. It's a little rock. It's a
little country. It's a little bluegrass. Every Sunday there's an amazing artist named Johnny Mullenax who does this thing called the bluegrass brunch. And
it's a little more rockabilly than bluegrass, but it's it's bluegrass, too. and he'll bring out three or 4 hundred
people flowing out into the streets and just rocks the house and he's now a
nationally touring artist. And so I I just got here and I just kind of right away felt like this is a creative city
like creatives plural. Like it's for it's for everybody but it's if you are there's a lot of cities that aren't
really here for you as a creative and even New York City is kind of getting to be that kind of place. It's like it's ostensibly
uh a city with an artistic and entrepreneurial heart, but it's so expensive to to live in New York City
now. If you're not making at least 100 grand a year, if you have if you make 100 grand a year in New York, you've got roommates. You can't you can't afford a
place on your own. So, not a lot of musicians make that. Uh you're a pretty successful musician if
you're making 100 grand a year. So, it's it's I look at a city like Tulsa and I feel like this is a new way
to make it work as a musician. Come here. You don't have to go to N. Nashville's getting pretty crowded now.
Austin's pretty crowded. I got a lot of friends who moved to Austin 10 years ago and they're like, "It's not Austin anymore. It's LA now."
And you know, and they also sort of hear me talking about Tulsa and they're like they're like, "Careful what you wish for. You want
Tulsa get a little bigger, but not too much bigger. Don't don't hope that Tulsa becomes Austin. You don't want what we
have now. You don't" And my friends in Nashville say the same. Like, you don't want to be like I've said like, "I think we're the next
Nashville." And they're like, "Careful. you want to be the Nashville we were, not the Nashville we are now. So, I I've
seen it a little bit. I went to Nashville a year year and a half ago. And as you perhaps know, it's sort of
like the bachelorette party headquarters of America now. And like the scene downtown on a Friday or Saturday night,
it's it's like you're in the middle of like the Thanksgiving Macy days parade. Uh it's very busy and it's probably lost
a little of its authenticity. I mean, real estate properties are going up there. If you bought a house, you're probably happy. But if you bought there,
if you move there for something authentic and pure and simple, I think it's lost that a bit. But Tulsa still has it. Um, yes, my friends in Nashville
feel like, eh, it's not the Nashville I moved here for. And Tulsa still is. It's still got a heart, still got
authenticity. You can still get in. You don't have to, you pay a hundred bucks to see your favorite artist. Even at
Kane's Ballroom, like you can see like Jack White for like $48, you know, paying what you'd pay in New York or
Boston or or Nashville. And you can just walk into a small place like the Colony
and see someone like Michaela Young who like I'm like how is this woman not playing to 20,000 like I've been in New
York for 12 years like she's better than 90% of the artists I've seen. So you can still find diamonds in the rough here
and I I don't want them to stay performing only 100. I hope they do get national careers and all but you will
you can get access. It's nice to be in a smaller pond. You know, you can, you
know, in New York you've got a pony up for Madison Square Garden or Broadway to go out. You know, there's there's there
are smaller venues, but not as many of them. But here, that's kind of what we got. We're we've got the Shrine, we've got the Colony, we've got Mercury
Lounge, we've got these small little venues, Bellafonte, we've got house concerts, and you can still experience
great music with 50 to 100 people, and you don't have to be lost in the sea of
a thousand. So, yeah, that's pretty amazing. I don't know if I I answered everything
there you did. Okay, let's take um let's talk a little bit uh go back a little bit
Neighborhoods, Lifestyle & Local Energy
about the neighborhoods and you love your neighborhood, love where you're at,
but if you could wave a magic wand and live in any neighborhood in Tulsa, would you
would you stay? Would you move? Yeah, I I think the one amazing thing about Tulsus is every week I feel like I
hear there's another neighborhood I didn't know about. Renaissance Park. What? And I've known about that one for a while, but
every I I mean, we must have 150 and and I, as you know, I don't get down south
terribly often. I make it to 51st once in a while. I don't get to Broken Arrow too much unless I'm getting my car
fixed. Uh I live north of Tulsa and I have a rich life downtown and in, you
know, the TU neighborhood I go to a fair bit. Kendall Whittier, I go to the the farmers market every Saturday. I play
music there sometimes. Um, I love the Heights neighborhood. Reservoir Hill
where I live is just north of the Heights. And that's it's it's a really rich it's small it's a small community of I think 85 homes. And we're up on top
of this hill. We've got a reservoir at the top. We've got wild peacocks roaming the streets. Everyone's got a guitar or a piano or an art easel in their corner.
Everyone's got some connection to the arts. People farm up there. But um, one neighborhood I really love is Owen Park.
And I didn't really I sort of knew of it, but I hadn't I didn't explore it much when I bought a house. And now I've
got probably 10 or 12 friends there. And I've rented there once in a while. When I when my house is being rented out, I'll stay with a friend in Owen Park.
And that's a great neighborhood. It's it's just off the beaten path. It's a little west of downtown. It's got
Craftsman houses. Got character. It's quiet, but it's but it's social. The
neighbor neighbors say hi to each other. And I will say that like there's just a contagious welcoming energy in Tulsa.
Everyone's saying hi to each other. My most my friends on the hill have a a a holiday party once in a while.
They'll have a holiday party once a year. They'll have a barbecue. They'll have a pizza party. Everyone's pretty welcoming. And that's what um I would I
would say I lived in Portland, Oregon for four years. And Tulsa reminds me of Portland, Oregon. Um I call I've called
it the Portland of the Midwest a few times. It's sort of, you know, It's a it's a it's a it's a city.
They're both cities that have a DIY culture, a do-it-yourself. They're artistically minded, but there's there's
commerce and there's industry there. It's a little politically mixed. Portland's a little more blue than than Tulsa is probably, but there's Oregon is
very red in a lot of ways. So I think I think you know I like what I like about Tulsa is I'm in a I'm in a pretty mixed
political you know part of the country whereas I've mostly lived in these you know very sort of blue uh coastal elites
town most of my life. Maine was pretty red growing up. Maine's pretty uh mixed. We did vote for V uh Maine voted for
Ross Perau in 1992 for president. We were the only state in the country that voted for him over over the two other
candidates. Uh so Maine's kind of independent at heart and I feel like Tulsa is as well. Portland certainly is,
but I I think um of all the neighborhoods, I loved I loved Owen Park. I like um I mean I just I kind of
like the districts. I like uh I love the arts district and like I almost I almost lived there my first
year. I lived in the Mayo Hotel instead because there's more restaurants in the arts district. I'm like if you live
here, you are going to be spending $100 a night in restaurants every night and you're going to be broke. And so then
now I live up on the hill and I do cook for myself a lot more often now that I'm
up in the hill, but I still I get lonely and need to go out on the town, but other neighborhoods. Um I love I love
Riverside. I love I love Brookside. Um and I did want to live there for a while. I I'm a cyclist. I'm a runner. I
love that whole stretch on Poria with all the restaurants and Ben 35 and Arbar
and um that's in a lot of ways a lot of people are surprised I don't live there. like you you you you run, you're
athletic, you're a cyclist, you like restaurants and coffee shops, you're single, like why aren't you living on Poria?
And I liked it. I didn't love the houses there. Uh and I and I realized as much as I
love the river, I love being on the hill. And I grew up on hill. I grew up ski racing and bike racing in New
England. And I just I like being on tops of hills. Something about it just makes feels like home to me. So I I'm not I
can't walk to a restaurant in Reservoir Hill. I can I can drive I can bike to it. 1.3 miles away. Got a great
restaurant called Prism Cafe. But yeah, I can't I can't walk to a coffee shop where I live. Um but I can
drive to everything in this town within seven or eight minutes. So So you need a vehicle really. Yeah, where I live. Yeah, at least a
motorbike. Um and you know I I there is a side of me that kind of wishes I were
in a more I'm in a very walkable neighborhood. like everyone walks and you know, but it's more for um to clear
your head and you know, and get out and breathe the fresh air than you're not walking to a restaurant or to
uh a coffee shop. The way when I lived downtown at the Mayo, you know, I just w I think my first year in Tulsa, I put
Tulsa’s Food Scene & Hidden Gems
1,000 miles on my car. I was during the pandemic, there wasn't much open, but I I just walked everywhere or I or or lime
scooters. I like the Lime scooters, but yeah, I didn't uh now now I have to drive more, but I also I have people up
to my house a lot. Uh I'm hosting this big house concert tomorrow night. And so, but other neighborhoods, I'm trying
to give you better answers. Um uh Maple Ridge, I got a few friends
there. Big lawns, big big properties. I like I like neighborhoods that are a
little quirky. Mhm. I don't like I think what I I didn't love about Brookside is it's on a grid, you know,
which is New York City is a most of it's a grid and it makes sense in a city, but I feel like in a town like this, it feels a little
it's a little boring. I like it when there's twisty, windy roads like sw what's the neighborhood that has Swan Swan Lake? Swan Lake Swan Lake
neighborhood. Yeah. So, like that's quirky, fun, cool, and it's not cheap, I've learned. But like that's interesting.
Like it's it's it's it's you know it's an anomaly. It's a little different. And I like things that are like, "This is
not like the rest." Like, "Let's live here." And I think Tulsa's got a lot of neighborhoods that are not like the rest. I think it's got a lot of people
that are not like the rest. It's got a lot of restaurants. It's It's got an independent heart. It's quirky. It
believes in authenticity, you know, like I don't see chain restaurants that much in Tulsa. Maybe if I
If you Yes. If you went outside the suburbs. So that's what's so funny talking to you is you're in true like
Midtown downtown people they think 51st is far and definitely the suburbs like
guilty. Yes. 71st once in a while like I said I'm a cyclist so I go down to 71st uh street
bridge all the time but I don't end up inland a whole lot. Um you know I'm not married. I don't
have kids. I feel like it's a little more families down there. Most of the single people a little further north. So I end up hanging out with them. Now, let
me ask you, go back. You were talking about restaurants and saying, you know, talking about the food scene a little bit, getting to know the restaurant
owners. How do you feel about the food scene in Tulsa compared to the places
that you've been? Yeah. So, a lot of, you know, I get a lot of questions from my New Yorker friends who knew me well and knew me for
12 years. I was in New York and, you know, on the one level like, "So, Tulsa? Really?" And I'm like, "Come to Tulsa. I
will make you a believer. Fly out. I got a three-bedroom house. You spend one weekend in Tulsa and you will not walk
away without being a fan. And I've got another friend visiting this weekend from Atlanta who's currently going
through it. He's like, he's like, "Yep, you told me it was cool. This is pretty cool." But uh but the more specific
question I get from my New York friends is like, "Bro, you're you don't have the restaurants in New York anymore." I'm like, "We have New York quality food in
Tulsa. I really believe the bar that the chefs and the and the designers and the restaurant tours here set I do believe
is as high in general as New York. I'm not saying Tulsa restaurants are better than any in
New York. I'm not quite saying that. But I'm saying if you're a New Yorker and you're worried you're going to, you know, oh, what will I do without the
restaurants in New York? I'm doing just fine. I got more than enough. Do I have like 3,500 restaurants that are a
certain bar? I know, but I got 64 and that's a lot and I don't need to be
going to more than 64 restaurants a year. Uh, I feel like I have not had to sacrifice restaurant quality and I'm
very encouraged that most of the places I go to are really uniquely designed and
they're they're born of a single ideology and like the rest, you know, whether it's Prism Cafe in the Heights,
my friend Amy Hunter, like she's lived in Dallas and Jackson Hole and Portland and New York and she's, you know,
borrowed from all these other cities and made this little 26 seat cafe sing like
a New York City cafe, but It's got Tulsa vibes. She's she's sourcing food from local farmers. Um my friend Noah Bush
who he and his partner Chip started Hodgeesbend and Lowwood and a number of other Topekca coffee. They've just
opened Ava June and Loi Pizza and these are you walk into these places and they don't remind you of anything else. It's
not a Chili's where it's the same design stamped and you know exported and copied and pasted around
the country. It's it's they sweated every detail and every restaurant here whether it's Amelia's Boston title and
abstract um you know even uh I'm trying to you know trenchers
delicatess and there's a there's a sense of authenticity and like a uniqueness that you feel like I feel like every
restaurant I walk into um vintage wine bar on first it has Monday night jazz
nights like every Monday night the one of the best sax players I've ever seen Mike Cameron's in there leading a quartet of like four or five musicians
And it's amazing. The wines are great. Like people people, you know, you don't have to live in New York City to have
New York level tastes and and sort of standards. And I think a lot of I think
we're now at the part where a lot of cities in the country have big city
level caliber restaurants. Portland, Maine, where I grew up, Portland's Maine's won, I think, restaurant city of the year like three
Must-See Spots for Visitors
or four times now. And so I think I feel like that's on the way for Tulsa. Um um
you know Tulsa just won a James Beard award with Cat Cox of Country Bird Bakery. Um so like we're we're on the
map. We're getting there. And uh Lisa and Linda of Farm Bar and Living Kitchen. I think they were nominated as
well. I think we've had four or five restaurants nominated for James Beard Awards. You know, we got some Michelin stars.
We're we're we're coming for you, New York City. We're hot on your tail. So
Okay. Okay. Well, let's switch a little bit from food scene to so when you have friends that come up, what are the five
things that you're telling them they must do? Like if you have if you're in Tulsa for, you know, 3 or 4 days, like what has to
be on the list? Yeah. So, so I'm kind of doing that right now. I've got a friend named Steven visiting from Atlanta. It's his
first time visiting and he's a music friend. He's going to be attending the house concert I'm hosting tomorrow night and he knows the musician I have coming.
He's seen him as well. Partially why Steve and I are good friends. We we both have pretty identical tastes in music.
But anyway, so Steven is new to Tulsa this weekend. So he's staying in a hotel downtown, the Tulsa Club Hotel. And uh
first thing I did, I picked him up and I drove him to the Brute Hotel, which is a new hotel kind of Riversideish south of
downtown that has a rooftop bar called S. And we we had lunch and a glass of
wine on the rooftop of Tulsa and looked out at the river and I showed him around. you could see the whole lay of
the land and there's the fresh air and the breeze and it's and he's like this is modern. There's a pool. I was like
look at the pool down here. He's like this is like the Soho House of Tulsa. And so right away he kind of got a sense
of like the caliber and the standards and like the aesthetics. Like I will say like Tulsa's appreciation for a designer
sense of aesthetics are are are supreme. Like it's there's a there's an artistic
sensibility here to how buildings are designed. We've got all these art deco buildings downtown, but every restaurant
like there's nothing really cookie cutter here. Some maybe some of the houses, but like even the majority of our houses are like
craftsman houses from the 20s with like sturdy bones and character and authenticity and you know, you don't see
that many McMah McMansions like you would in Atlanta. So uh so so I took him
to the to the to the to the Soma to the Brute Hotel to the rooftop bar at Soma and then I took him on a I just did a
loop around the IDL interdiscary loop just so we could see the city. We'll go to the Mayo Hotel rooftop
tonight. We're going to go to Boston Title and Abstract this great kind of speak easy dinner downtown under
underground um one of the buildings in downtown. I I I describe it as Batman's
It's like if Batman had a private restaurant below his mansion, it would be Boston title and abstract.
Uh so we'll go there and then I showed them I I take them to the arts district. I show them
uh the Woody Guthrie mural. I show them the Bob Dylan Museum. I show them um
Guthrie Green. I show them living arts. I show them the stadium. I take them up to the the vast bank building the um in
the RAW sushi restaurant and look have them look at the view of the uh the baseball stadium, soccer stadium. I take
them on on Riverside. We if uh if I have time with them tomorrow we will walk across the Williams Crossing Bridge,
which is the new bridge above the new dam by the Gathering Place. I would take him to the Gathering Place if we had a
little more time. I'm not sure he'll get to that. Uh we will go to a restaurant called Bull in the Alley for Last Call tonight
where my friend John will be playing piano at uh 9 to midnight and but I'll
I'll I'll try to you know there's you know you go to the center of the universe and you know you ring the bell and
there's just kind of all these little quirky little only in Tulsa moments you know
kind of kind of thing. I I I'll share another story. Like when I first when I first got to Tulsa, having lived in all
these other cities, I did all these fake social media posts for a little while where I took a a photo of part of Tulsa
that I thought reminded me of another town. Mh. Uh like I would be downtown and in these art deco buildings reminded me of the
financial district in New York City. And I would do a post swing. So cool to be back in the financial district again with all these great, you know, 1920s
buildings from the best architects of the 20th century. Oh wait, this is Tulsa. And I did that kind of misdirect
thing. I'm an ad guy at heart. And I did it for so cool to be back in Williamsburg again. Oh, wait. This is Tulsa. So cool to be back in Nashville
this weekend. It's going to be the best barbecue. Oh, wait. This is Tulsa. And I everywhere I went, I kind of was like,
this is the best of that city and that city and that city all rolled into one. And you can still afford it and you can
and there's no traffic and you can still make a nice life here. So I, you know, I
hope it stay. I want Tulsa to get bigger, but not too much bigger, but I want more of the world to find out how
great Tulsa is. Let's talk about Okay, so it's funny. I was like, so tell is it I was like, is this is this a friend of
mine I've forgotten about? Uh, so one of the one of the many uh creative exploits
I indulge in is the craft of storytelling, which is somewhat people think it's sort of like standup comedy,
Creativity, Storytelling & The Tulsa Mindset
but it's you're on stage and it's just you and a microphone for five, six, seven minutes, but it's a singular story
you're telling. And the goal isn't just to make people laugh. It's to make people feel and to to really take them
on a journey storytelling. And so when living in New York City, there's a big uh storytelling series called The Moth,
which is not just in New York, it's national. And it's often regarded as kind of the sort of highest tier, highest quality
storytellers in America. All participate in the Moth storytelling series. And Tulsa has a version of that uh called
Okay. So, and it's a bit of a play on Okay. Oklahoma, but also the other night. Okay. So, the other night I was
out and my friends in the bar. You wouldn't believe what happened. This crazy guy walked in. And so, it's kind of a nod to how we often start off
stories, you know. Okay. So, I got to break this down. You won't believe what happened the other night. So, I've been
doing that for about two years. It's this great series started by u my friends Michelle Bias and Brandon Jean Pearson.
And they uh host these the storytelling series once a month, second Friday of every month called Okay. So, story slams
at the Living Arts Center in general. And there's a different theme each month. And it could be fear or it could
be confessions or I think next month is holiday disasters or blessing in disguise or moment of truth. There's a
different theme. And so all this the wannabe or or actually practicing
storytellers of Tulsa hear about the theme. They start thinking start you know writing and you putting notes in
your phone. What's a story I could tell when do I have anything for this? Oh I this could be something. Let me rehearse that. Let me work through this through.
and you rehearse ideally and you prepare it and you fine-tune it and then you get up on stage and there's there's 10
storytellers every every every event they do they pull names out of a hat so you could walk up throw your name in the
hat you may not get called sometimes they have 25 people put a name in the hat and they can only pick 10 or 11
spots so uh you hope if you spent 20 hours rehearsing your story you get
called and I've I've been on stage probably 13 times one two or three and then if you win one of them you get you
get called to the grand slam at the end of the year which is usually in Kane's ballroom. So I've I've performed on the
main stage in Kane's ballroom twice, not as a musician but as a u as a storyteller. Actually one story I
brought out my guitar and um so I can say I was like I've performed music on the Kane's uh stage.
I cheated my way into that that claim. But it's a beautiful beautiful uh
tradition uh being honored here in Tulsa. Craft of storytelling. So there's about 300 people that show up and
listen. judges are pulled out of the audience and um and you really it's a
great way to kind of keep your finger on the creative pulse of Tulsa and sort of see what you know the kind of next
generation of Tulsa storytellers are are speaking about and what they feel is worthy of you know an audience hearing.
And uh I uh I I I make I make about se I make about eight or nine of them a year
out of the 12 or so. I'm going to miss next month because I'm hosting another house concert. But it's beautiful and
it's just one of many things where many examples where I feel like Tulsa is committed to embracing and supporting
and lifting up the creative arts. And I think you can have a city that's got great industry and great um career
options and all that, but if you don't have the arts, if you don't have a some sort of creative soul to your city, it's
not going to really catch fire and grow. like Austin didn't grow just because it had
you know I mean Tesla came after Austin cemented itself as an arts center
and you know all these other there's b you know I think Dallas and Houston I I like I love the cities as well but I I
do I'm more drawn to a city like Austin or like I think like Tulsa I think it just has even even compared to Oklahoma
City I think we've got a little more of a passion for the arts here and I think we have a little more character and authenticity we may not have as much
commerce and industry but I think and get there. Yeah, I think so. Okay, last question
for you. Yeah. Out and this could be somebody that you know or somebody that you don't know,
but out of all the Tulsans that you've met or you're aware of, who is the one
that you most admire? Wow. Um, who do I most admire in Tulsa?
So many amazing uh people here. uh
you know there's whether it's a restaurant owner like Amy Hunter who moved here from Dallas I think four
years ago and and had to work her ass off for two years to get permits through and get a building and get it renovated
and start this great restaurant in Prism Cafe or my artists my musician friends like Johnny Mullenax who's been bringing
three or 400 people out at the at the Bluegrass um brunch in the Mercury Lounge each week or Casey Stefen another
musician in Tulsa who's performed at my house before. She's performing again in December.
um or Johnny Mural or um uh artists like
Rebecca Da um who's they're showing their work on first Fridays every Friday night or whether it's um you know film
directors um or whether it's film director Sterland Harjo uh director of Reservation Dogs and now the Lowdown the
amazing show starring Ethan Hawk. I mean, the vision it's it's it's taken
for him and his crew to make this brave, authentic, gritty, funny, happy, sad,
wonderful, unlike anything else show called The Lowdown happen here in Tulsa. Like, that's that's someone with a lot
of vision and passion and commitment. And you you can't make that happen overnight. you know, he's he you know, he was he was part of the Sundance um
festival many years ago and he he he worked under Robert Redford or met him and and was kind of nurtured and
encouraged by Robert Redford and you know, I think he's our he's maybe our next Robert Redford. Um I think he's
really doing that kind of beautiful work. Um I've been lucky enough to meet Monroe Nichols, our mayor, a couple times. I had a few events for him at my
house. Uh he's our first black mayor of Tulsa. I mean, that's there's just a lot
of people, brave, courageous souls here doing brave, unique, interesting things,
you know, whether it's a new restaurant or a tattoo shop or the architects here. There's a lot of architects in Tulsa.
Uh, I bought my house from architect Dwayne Mass. And, you know, he's he's the he's the director. He's the um
architect behind the the the capital building in Oklahoma City, but he's built five or six houses here in Tulsa.
Uh, I I have just as many people to admire and respect and look up to here in Tulsa that I than I ever did in New
York City or any other city I've lived in. Okay. Do you have anything that was amazing?
Um, I'm sure all those people I'm sure there's going to be plenty more. You're like, man, I wish I didn't mention this
person. There's so many more. Um, but is there anything else you want to add about living in Tulsa? About your
experience? anything we didn't touch on that you think people would, you know, would be helpful to people?
Yeah, I would say um the one thing I end up saying to a lot of people who have known me a long time and kind of know me
in my life in New York or my life in LA or on the coast and all that and they find out I'm in Tulsa and they usually have a bit of a folded arm, suspicious
kind of like, so I remember one friend of mine when I first got here, he was watching a lot of my posts. He goes,
"So, are you really liking it or are you just Facebook liking it?" um to to to to like you know brand and cheer on you and
I was like I was like I'm telling you man come out here I will make you a believer of this town like I'm as I'm
I'm as surprised as anyone but at least I was open to it and a lot of people aren't open to it and I I say to people
you'd be surprised where you can be happy and I think we all I've learned I've lived in so many different cities
and obviously I was in New York City for 12 years was the longest and I I believed I was a New Yorker and like
this is this is the town for me. I didn't necessarily believe this is the only town for me, but I was like, I'm a New Yorker now. Like, and I didn't I
didn't know I was a New Yorker. I thought I was I thought I was a Los Angelino. I was living in LA and I thought I'd never leave.
And the pandemic, sorry, not the pandemic, the uh financial crisis of08 forced me to to move to New York. And
then I found out like, oh, I'm actually a New Yorker. I didn't know that. And now I'm like, oh, maybe I'm a Tulsa. Uh
so I think you if you you know any town you come to and I've seen a few people come to this town uh from other cities
and if they don't have a completely open heart and they're a little bit they've got a little bit of a guard up and you
don't really embrace this town and you wait you wait to be invited to the town and you don't go out and make things happen like yeah maybe you won't fall in
love with Tulsa but that's a little bit on you like I I tell people like don't wait to be invited to the party you're the party
you start the party you host the parties Mark you host the brunch parties, you host the house concerts and and then,
you know, and the more I do that, the more I invite people, the more I get invited to the the larger world of
Tulsa, the more I end up, you know, going to the amazing film premiere
release, the more I end up finding out about a cool stand-up comedy show that So, I think you're um wherever you go in
life, you know, practice. Try to see life through a lens of abundance, not scarcity. Don't sit there resenting why
you haven't been invited or or welcomed into something. Ask ask you know not what your town can do for you. What can
you do for your town and what maybe you need to have you oh you lived in your house for a year? Have you had a housewarming party yet? You haven't had
a housewarming party. Welcome people into your world. Show up. Be proud of who you are in your life. And I think if
you you know but if you come to Tulsa I I will say this of all the towns I've lived in. I've done this a lot where I
open my house up or my apartment or whatever and invite people. And as an example, like I lived in Seattle for two
years. Seattle's there's a nickname for Seattle of a there's a concept you can
uh experience in Seattle called the Seattle freeze. It's more of a it's like a social phenomenon where it's it's a
little cold. It's not it's not rude. It's not mean. It's just it's not as warm. And when and when I moved to
Tulsa, I started inviting opening my doors up and inviting people. And the percentage of people who just came and
showed up and brought a bottle of wine or a guitar and their good energy and their sense of humor and their
openheartedness, I think has exceeded any other city I've ever lived in. That's amazing. I love it.
So, yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah. Go Tulsa. Thank you for Yeah. opening up and
sharing your story. And there there's so much I know that there's so much more, but that was excellent. I think
you're stuck with me. You're stuck with me for now. I don't I don't know where else I'm going from here, guys. It's uh I've got a house. I've got a nice life.
I've got friends and community and restaurants and house concerts and musical opportunities and standup comedy and
film making friends and it's kind of it's everything that I kind of uh was looking for in big cities I've been able
to find here. Right. You're living the good life. Yep. You as well. All right. Thank you.
All right. Thank you, Sabrina. It's great to be here.