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Chats with law enforcement experts and leaders
Hi. This is Sergeant Betsy Brander Smith at the National Police Association, and this is the National Police Association Podcast. I have a, gosh. This guy is so busy. He's crazy.
Betsy Smith:He does so much. But I knew you needed to meet him because he is a fellow board member, with me and a bunch of other great people on the Wounded Blue board, and he's also the owner of, I gotta get this right, Bator Training and Consulting. But he's an author. He's an MBA. He's a podcaster.
Betsy Smith:He's a financial guy. He just wears, so many hats. And, so I thought we could have a really terrific conversation. So, Ken Bator, welcome to the show.
Ken Bator:Oh, thank you so much. It's I feel privileged to be able to be on your show and to talk to you, Betsy.
Betsy Smith:Well, I so so let's start out. I wanna talk about how you got involved with an organization like the Wounded Blue and how you got so law enforcement adjacent. Talk about that.
Ken Bator:Well, I'll try to make a long story fairly short, but, you you mentioned that my original career was in banking and working with credit unions and started my own business and doing consulting back in 2001. And around that time, one of my first clients was Chicago Patrolman's Federal Credit Union. And for anybody that understands the credit union industry at all, it's very insular and has their little clicks. And at the time, there was a air airplane credit union group, and there was a firefighters credit union association. Our postal workers credit union association was nothing for police.
Ken Bator:And, you know, I developed a friendship with Scott Arnie. He's still the CEO of what's now the National Police Federal Credit Union, not Chicago Patrolman's anymore today. And I said, do we have anything like that for police credit unions? And he said, no. I says, well, do you wanna do that?
Ken Bator:And so, entrepreneurially, we created the Police Officers Credit Union Association. And so I got to meet a lot of great active police officers, retired police officers that were involved in these credit unions. And then fast forward to 2014 when Ferguson happened. And, yeah, I was, you know, I was always appreciative and had a lot of respect for law enforcement. But when I was sitting there watching Ferguson burn and watching police basically get vilified for what I in my opinion, was exactly the right thing to do, yeah, that's where, you know, my appreciation and support of law enforcement, you know, went way up.
Ken Bator:And that eventually led me to to do public safety talk radio, which it was part of the POC way. And eventually got me to introduce to to Randy Sutton, who's the founder of the Wounded Blue. And a couple years ago or actually a year ago, he asked me to be on the board as the treasurer because of going back full circle to my banking days way way back when.
Betsy Smith:Well, you know, the National Police Association, you know, we too support the American law enforcement officer through all kinds of different advocacy than what the Wounded Blue does. You know? We get really involved in the legal side and the media side. And and as you were as you were outlining all that, I I was thinking back to when I was a 21 year old police rookie in the Chicago area going to the academy in Cook County. And one of the things that and, again, I was a couple weeks out of college.
Betsy Smith:You know, I was raised on the farm, and all of a sudden, everybody in the world wanted to give me a credit card. And, you know, and I remember thinking, I'm not sure this is such a great idea, but because and then throughout the years, I saw a lot of police officers didn't really handle their money very well. We don't make a lot of money, but we do make some money. And but, you know, everybody wanted to be involved with us financially, I guess, because they know we're gonna get paid. Talk talk about that.
Ken Bator:You know, I yeah. I can't speak for the banks that wanted to throw credit cards your way. Although, you know, I remember back in the day, you know, being, you know, a senior in college in DePaul University in Chicago in the early nineties, really early nineties, and, you know, getting all of these offers from Chase and Citibank and so on and so forth. And I think that that banking mentality, especially back at the time, is, okay. They're building their career.
Ken Bator:We want we want ours to be their number one card, so they they wanna get them early. You know, I've always said that, you know, when it comes to, you know, helping law enforcement right at the beginning when they're in the academy, just starting the job, the vast majority, almost all police credit unions out there, whether they're a big one like the National Police Federal Credit Union or some of the small boutique ones like Alabama law enforcement or Police Federal Credit Union of Omaha, do an excellent job of getting in to the academies and trying to teach people good money management so that, you know, when they put in, you know, hopefully, a great twenty five, thirty years that they can retire comfortably and they, you know, could have the life that they want because, you know, I found vicariously, you know, that when your finances aren't in order, it affects your physical nature, it affects your profession, and so forth. It's all it's all a domino effect, Betsy.
Betsy Smith:It it really is. And and law enforcement officers already have, you know, issues with physical well-being, physical health, mental well-being, things like that. And and you're a guy, and you're really open about this, who who had some of your own demons. You had some of your own struggles, and and you're you're a really resilient guy. So here you are in this industry.
Betsy Smith:You're trying to support the American law enforcement officer. You're doing media, all that, but you had some of your own struggles, didn't you?
Ken Bator:Yeah. Yeah. I in in my own show, you know, public safety talk radio, I'm not shy about talking about my alcoholism. I actually surprisingly, you know, began getting sober right before I started that show. So, you know, I drank heavily for about thirty years and, you know, certainly have a a ton of interesting stories that have to do with that.
Ken Bator:But once once I I finally kinda hit bottom and and got myself right, ironically, going back to your original question or is that, yeah, I I wanted to get control back. You know? I was out of control. You know? My credit card balances were out of control.
Ken Bator:My my business was out of control. My home life was out of control, and it was all because of alcohol. And then, you know, fortunately, something clicked and said, you know, I I I need to get control back. And the best best way for me to do that is is to get sober, and I've never looked back.
Betsy Smith:So what have you learned in in your advocacy for law enforcement? And it you know, this has been going on a long time, that you want other citizens to know.
Ken Bator:Yeah. Get to know the person. I think a lot of the attacks are on the the badge and not the individual. Yeah. I I think almost always and there are a few exceptions.
Ken Bator:You know, you would know this better than I do. There are some, you know, gals and guys that, you know, because of their attitude just shouldn't be cops. But those are few and far between. Every conversation with the exception of one or two that I've had over twenty five years has been positive, whether it's been, you know, with a cup of coffee or whether it's been at a restaurant. And a great example is I was just going through Houston Intercontinental last month and got to speak to a number of ICE agents.
Ken Bator:And they're good people that just simply want to to clean up our country. And, you know, some of them, you know, are are sons and daughters of immigrants themselves, but they were legal immigrants that did it the right way, you know, that went through the process. And and they're not gonna let anybody cut the line. You know, they wanna keep their country safe. So, you know, if there's anything that I could tell anybody out there that, you know, may, you know, be somewhere in the gray area, you know, go go get to, you know, coffee with a cop.
Ken Bator:You know? Go and, you know, talk to your neighbor that happens to be a police officer. You know, they're they're a mother, they're a father, they're a brother, they're a sister. You know, they they just wanna do a job and do it well.
Betsy Smith:That is so well said. Yeah. I saw, and chatted with a bunch of ICE agents in the, Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport here a few weeks ago with my, 13 year old grandson, and they were so nice to him. They're fist bumping him and because I had him go and tell all of them thank you for what they're doing and and things like that. And they were so gracious and so happy to be there, and the line moved so quickly with them there.
Betsy Smith:I was I was really appreciative of of that and what they're doing. And that's the thing. You know? You saw as a citizen, you saw Ferguson, then, you know, you saw George Floyd in that whole situation because things were starting to kinda calm down. Right?
Betsy Smith:And and then the death of George Floyd happened, and and we saw, jeez, really, over two years of of riots, you know, 260 violent riots, so many police officers injured, and that continued vilification. And now this ridiculous, unhinged vilification of federal law enforcement officers. It is wildly frustrating, isn't it?
Ken Bator:It is. You know, you you mentioned George Floyd, and there's a very short interesting story. I've I've been blessed to talk to a lot of people like you that are doing great things for for law enforcement out there, and and one of those other folks is Vicky Newman who runs How to Love Our Cops. Mhmm. And I remember I literally, just weeks before that George Floyd incident, was talking to Vicky on the phone and talking about some of the things that she was doing and some of the things that I was doing for the POCUA at the time.
Ken Bator:And I said, you know, you know, maybe this COVID thing, you know, has a small silver lining because for a while, and you may remember this, you know, everybody that was in public safety was kind of lumped into this hero bubble. Whether you're a firefighter, EMT, emergency room, professional, police officer, and so forth, that they were all kinda grouped together as look at these heroes that are out there doing their job, and they could get COVID, and they could die and everything. And I remember telling Vicky, says, you know, maybe this is the turning point. You know, maybe maybe this is what we can leverage for law enforcement, you know, after that crap in in Ferguson and after, you know, some of the other incidents. And she and she was very, very poignant.
Ken Bator:She said, you know, it's nice to have it right now, but I think we're just a hair away from one other incident happening, and this all turns, you know, the other way again. And I'm like, well, you know, I hope it doesn't happen. And then, you know, literally, like, weeks later, I'm like, son of a bitch. She was right.
Betsy Smith:Yeah. She's been a she's been a guest on the show.
Ken Bator:I'm
Betsy Smith:sure. And as I always like to say, the only thing more cynical than a veteran cop is a cynical police wife.
Ken Bator:Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, I've met a I've met a lot of of spouses of of police officers, you know, a lot of, you know, your your typical traditional marriages where the, you know, the wife is is not a police officer and the and the husband is. And I gotta tell you, the wives scare me. Yeah.
Ken Bator:Not, you know, not you know, just in a kind of a joking way. You know, I would I would rather be putting head cuffs on. You know, these women are tough in a good way, and they and they have to be. But it's like, yeah, put me in the back of a squad car before I've got, like, two or three of these women chasing me, man.
Betsy Smith:That is that is so true, and they're proud of it too.
Ken Bator:Oh, yeah. As they should be.
Betsy Smith:Absolutely. So so tell me about you know? Because you were doing radio for quite a while, and then you got you got into podcasting. Talk about that that whole thing and what you've been trying to you there's, you know, there's so many different things that you have been trying to get the word out about.
Ken Bator:Yeah. You know, I think the the best way to kinda capsulize it is, you know, I I kinda fell into banking, back after I got out of college in the early nineties. It wasn't really what I wanted to do. It just happened to be convenient at the time. And and then when I went on on my own in 2001, I made kind of the conscious decision to just, you know, to to be like water and where where there's an opportunity and not only just an opportunity, but something that I really wanna do, I'm gonna do it.
Ken Bator:And so, you know, things morphed from banking and consulting to the Police Officers Credit Union Association to you know, in the mid two thousand tens, you know, I came across a guy that taught me podcasting. I did a little bit of radio, but it it quickly segued into podcasting, and I loved it. And then, you know, fast forward to 2020 and COVID hit, and I wanted to keep the Police Officers Credit Union Association alive. So I started Public Safety Talk Radio to to use that as a promotion tool for the POCUA. Now the irony the irony is is the POCUA is no more, but public safety talk radio is still going strong.
Ken Bator:So, you know, I yeah. I probably dabbled in a lot of things. Some of them, I just dabbled in for a few months and said, well, this sucks. I'm not gonna do this anymore. And others, the podcasting and my consulting and the work that that I do with and for law enforcement, you know, is not only, you know, in one way, shape, or form, pay some of the bills, but, you know, is a real passion of mine.
Ken Bator:And I I really love what I'm doing today.
Betsy Smith:Talk about some of that that you're doing for the Public Safety Talk Radio and and and what kind of what are you seeing that people are interested in?
Ken Bator:Well, you know, when it comes to to to podcasting, you know, one of the other offshoots that I did when I started podcasting is I had the opportunity to write for Podcast Magazine. It was around for three years. It's no longer around. But given some of my background with working with police, they asked me to cover true crime. And so when it comes to that, you know, people love true crime.
Ken Bator:You know, we used to joke about it on Podcast Magazine because everybody had a category. Mines was mine was true crime, and mine was always easy. I always had too many stories, you know, to talk about. We used to joke and say, you know, true crime to podcasting is like pornography to the Internet. I mean, it just you know, you you all you gotta do is click a couple things and you'll find it.
Ken Bator:But true crime is is really popular out there. I think that the most of those folks, you know, are are interested in the puzzle solving. You know, some probably are freaks, but the vast majority, I would say, you know, 90% or more, you know, enjoy true crime, you know, not from the crime aspect or the gore, but the forensic and the the work that detectives do to solve these cases that that is is really the the motivation or attraction. So, you know, we you know, I mentioned earlier that, you know, probably the proudest thing that I'm doing right now is working with National Police Federal Credit Union. We launched the National Police Podcast Network.
Ken Bator:You know, we have a true crime podcast in that network. It's facing evil. There is one other that we're looking at, and, you know, one that you will probably well know about. You know, we're in the process of making rescuing nine one one into a podcast. If everything goes right, that'll be going live police week.
Betsy Smith:So let's talk about rescuing nine one one. Randy Sutton, lieutenant Randy Sutton, founder of the Woundaboo, big friend of the National Police Association, big friend of the show, and my partner on the Nancy Guthrie coverage.
Ken Bator:And you and and neither one of you solved it. You know? I just wanna tell you. I I I gave Randy a bunch of crap about that. Now it's my turn.
Ken Bator:You know? It's like, it's not solved. Okay? You know? You know, you guys were on top
Betsy Smith:of it. Totally joking obviously. Every day when I talk to Randy, I'm like, she's still missing. You know? And oh, boy.
Betsy Smith:But but, you know, Randy's got such a storied career. And and the book, rescuing nine one one, which I highly recommend to everyone, it'll I mean, it'll warm your heart. It'll break your heart. And and I love what you guys are doing with the book, bringing it basically, bringing it to the podcast format. Right?
Ken Bator:Yeah. Yeah. It, you know, it it has been and continues to be a lot of fun. You know, the backstory is we started this National Police Podcast Network and really appreciate that Randy wanted to be a part of it. And, you know, he certainly done a lot of podcasts and everything.
Ken Bator:And to make a long story short, the easiest way to get Randy involved was to start a new podcast. And I said, well, I said, you know, you've got this great new book, Rescuing nine one one. And given, you know, my podcast producing days, I said, you know, the the book actually lends itself really, really well to a limited series podcast. You know, not where we're doing this every day, but we act actually made a podcast where it's not just an audiobook. It's an accompaniment where, you know, we there's there's a number of things that are extras that he doesn't mention in the book that we talk about in the podcast.
Ken Bator:Now for unfortunately, for Randy, he had to spend practically two full days with me in a hotel room recording. And, you know, if if I'm so inclined if I'm if I'm so inclined, there there's at least about a half a dozen really, really good bloopers that are on video and audio. One in particular I'll share is we we finished it on the second day, and I said, that's a wrap. And he said something like, thank god. Yeah.
Ken Bator:And I said, you know, you wanna start over just in case we miss something, do it all over again. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do that for sure as he's taking off the mic and getting ready to walk out the door.
Betsy Smith:Right? Exactly. Well and that's the thing. The the the stories in that book are, again, the you know, it's a lot, and I I really I appreciate the kind of the audio component to that. And especially, I'm kind of of that age where I'd rather listen to a book anyway than than read it, or I like to listen to it and then go back and, you know, read and highlight things that, you know, I wanna look more into, things like that.
Betsy Smith:And that's why I appreciate what you guys what you guys did. And, it's it's gonna be released police week. Right? You said?
Ken Bator:That is the plan right now. Barring anything unforeseen, what, what we're working on in the vaccines, I've got all of the episodes edited and ready to go. So what we really wanna do is maybe there's eight episodes from the book. And what we think we're going to do is release one episode as kind of a teaser episode one. And then every day during police week, do two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight from Saturday or excuse me, from Sunday to Saturday.
Ken Bator:That's the way we released Facing Evil
Betsy Smith:Mhmm.
Ken Bator:Back two years ago. And it's I I think it's appropriate for police week. The National Police Federal Credit Union and Police Mortgage that helped us do this, They're very respectful for Police Week. You know, they're they're obviously big supporters of what goes on in DC. And I remember two years ago, they're like, you know, we don't wanna be, you know, pushing mortgages and selling checking accounts.
Ken Bator:We wanna be respectful that week.
Betsy Smith:Right.
Ken Bator:And so it was so appropriate and so well aligned to roll out facing evil a couple years ago during that week, you know, where it's just information. You know, we're gonna do the same thing with with rescuing 911. And one last point on that, you know, you said, you know, sometimes it's great to hear it. Yeah. I I I've been very adamant that the podcast is not a replacement or just an audiobook version.
Ken Bator:It's an accompaniment. There are things in the book that you won't hear about in the podcast just for simply it didn't come up or didn't go with the flow. Same thing. There are things that we that Randy and I talk about. Like, we have a practically a whole episode on him being a field training officer.
Ken Bator:You know? And it was great content. That isn't in the book. Right. So, you know, much like, you know, back in the day in in the nineties when I was so, you know, big on building a career and learning.
Ken Bator:You know? I I read the seven habits of highly effective people. Then I went and got the audiobook, and I would listen to it in the car. And I found, you know, I I I found things in the audio that I didn't find in the book and vice versa Mhmm. Whether it was just not there or it was just a different way of learning.
Betsy Smith:Yeah. Ab absolutely. I let me ask you this. Do you feel like we're turning the corner again in this country that we're we're leaving 2020 behind as far as demonizing law enforcement and we're moving back to, to seeing cops for the heroes they are? What do you see as a as a normal person out in society?
Ken Bator:Yeah. It's it's a great question, Betsy. You know, one that I I posed to Randy too. I would say that that Randy is probably a little bit more optimistic and positive about it than I am. Yeah.
Ken Bator:I I think that, yeah, we really need to reach that gray area. I am a believer that that most people fall into one of three buckets. Either the bucket like you and I where we staunchly, not blindly, but staunchly support law enforcement. We'll we'll call out the wrong when it truly is wrong, but we're supporters of law enforcement. And then you have the other group, you know, that, you know, will always hate police officers, will always hate law enforcement for whatever reason, and you're just not going to reach them.
Ken Bator:But there's a big group of a gray area that there you know, maybe, you know, people like I was before Ferguson where I certainly, you know, had an appreciation for law enforcement but wasn't so staunchly supported. You know, those are the people that we need to reach. You know, those are the people, you know, that we we need to, you know, create some common sense with. You know, okay. You know, maybe maybe you didn't like the fact that, you know, you got pulled over when you were 18 and, you know, the cop was a bad cop and he was rude to you, you know, but that's not everybody.
Ken Bator:You know, they they they do a tough job. Certainly, there's things that need to be changed, But but to answer your question, you know, I would like to be optimistic, but one of the things that I've seen since this current administration took over or took over again, however you wanna look at it, is whatever you wanna call it, that 20% or 15% or 25 is just, you know, biting so hard without logic, just with blind, ridiculous emotion.
Betsy Smith:Mhmm.
Ken Bator:Yeah. And and and some of them are smart. You know? Randy mentioned this in the podcast, and it was very poignant, is, you know, most people realize that the the fund the police phrase just isn't the winner. Right.
Ken Bator:Even even the people that hate police realize the stupidity in in that phrase. So, yeah, they they change it to, well, law enforcement reform or or they tack on the politically correct for some, the abolish ICE, which is just another version of defund the police.
Betsy Smith:So Right.
Ken Bator:I would I would love to to say that the that we're turning to the different side of the coin for more support for law enforcement, but I think that that, you know, that radical portion of our country is just going to be loud and fight tooth and nail for years to come. I hate to say that, but that that's that's what I'm seeing.
Betsy Smith:Well and I think that's why we have to get louder.
Ken Bator:Yeah.
Betsy Smith:And, you know, the people who support us, We've gotta be out there. We've gotta be loud. We've gotta be factual, not emotional, but factual and passionate about
Ken Bator:Yeah.
Betsy Smith:Our support for law enforcement, you know, not just, you know, rah rah the police, but but how law enforcement positively affects our entire society. You can't have a constitutional republic without good quality law enforcement. And, you know, so I think that's that's why I appreciate what you're doing so much because, you know, there's those of us that were on the job, and we can, you know, cheerlead the cops all we want. But to have somebody like you who who really came to this as a just a citizen who loves his country and and understands how society works. You know?
Betsy Smith:We just we just appreciate you so much. Can where can people find you? Where can they get the book too? And where can they find you, your company, the podcast? Give it to me.
Betsy Smith:Give it give me all Sure.
Ken Bator:Sure. Well, rescuing nine one one, I as I am doing in the podcast, I am strongly suggesting that people go to the Wounded Blue, website and join the nine one one club. If you do that, you'll get a copy of rescuing nine one one. You'll even get a signature of Randy Sutton on there. You probably won't get the nice message that he put for me on this particular copy, but you'll get Randy Sutton's signature if you're you're one of the first thousand.
Ken Bator:So that's you could certainly get it on Amazon, but I encourage people to to do it through the nine one one club on the Wounded Blue. Me, I'm pretty easy to find. My website is btcin.net. That's basinboy,tasintom,casincat,inc.net. You can connect with me there.
Ken Bator:I would say that the best social media to find me is on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn all the time. You know, unless you're a radical liberal, I'll answer your messages on LinkedIn. So LinkedIn is probably the best social media. And last, NPPN live or nppn.live, I should say, is the National Police Podcast Network.
Ken Bator:That's where you'll find rescuing nine one one, you'll find facing evil, you'll find public safety talk radio, and a number of other great podcasts that are first rep first responder related.
Betsy Smith:That is fantastic. Well, Ken, I can't thank you enough for doing this. I will see you soon. And, if you'd like more information about the National Police Association, you can visit us at nationalpolice.org.
NPA:Every day, the brave men and women of law enforcement put their lives on the line to keep us safe. But they need our help to continue their mission. Activist politicians, progressive prosecutors, the ACLU and the rest of the anti police forces receive millions in donations from extremist pro criminal elements like George Soros and woke corporations. The National Police Association is fighting them in courts around the country including the United States Supreme Court defending officers who are being attacked for doing their jobs. Additionally, the National Police Association works year round to pass tough on crime legislation to put and keep criminals behind bars.
NPA:Consider going to nationalpolice.org and donating to keep us in the fight. Together, we can win. That is nationalpolice.org.