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Host Scott Lollar is a 35-year veteran of the painting industry and founder of Consulting4Contractors. The 'Success Beyond The Brush' Podcast serves as a touchpoint to painting contractors who have hustled, sacrificed, and worked hard to get their business to where it is today. Now, you need the guidance, expertise, experience, and team to make it into the multi-million-dollar company of your dreams. You'll hear stories and interviews from "Brothers of the Brush" and "Sisters of the Sprayer" who have been where you are and are charting a new course for their company's success. Listen in and go beyond $1,000,000!
SBTB Ep. 7 | Executing The Gameplan - Stay in Your Lane: How Contractors Lose Money by Doing ‘A Little Bit of Everything’
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[00:00:00]
Introduction: The Eternal Optimist's Dilemma
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Mark: It's really a problem being an eternal optimist and really confident in yourself. It's a bad mixture. Let me put the question back to you. I'm an entrepreneur with a scaling business. I've got opportunities and, of course, I could be anyone listening to this podcast.
How would you, as a business coach from the commercial and residential background, recommend that we dip our toe into maybe a new area of business. How would you like to see that happen?
The Passion and Proficiency Debate
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Scott: Listen to a bit of your heart, I guess I would call it because I think just because we can do it doesn't mean we should do it because we don't have passion around it. So the last thing you want to do is lock yourself down to overseeing and driving a new initiative when you don't want to. Right? So that's the passion part.
If you can't drive this, make this a significant division, a significant service, then I would just take a pass on it and focus on your core competencies.
The other thing that I think I would say is check your head trash. A lot of things [00:01:00] that we do because we think we have to, and it's a conversation we have a lot when we talk about minimum job size for residential repaint contractors, like I have to do the small ones. No, you don't. You simply don't.
Well, then I might miss out on some other things. I guarantee that the amount of money you miss out on by not doing small jobs is never going to surpass the amount of money, time you waste on this small job, right? So this idea of going, Hey, it's okay for me to say no to this stuff because I'm not going to stall out the rest of my business just to do this drywall repair or just to do this carpentry thing, or just to do this, install some baseboard or whatever it is, right? You name it. And it goes on and on. And I think knowing who you are and who you aren't is going to give you tremendous freedom.
Welcome to Success Beyond the Brush
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Welcome back to Success Beyond the Brush, the podcast powered by Consulting4Contractors dedicated to helping painting and home service business owners build systems, scale with confidence and run companies [00:02:00] that actually make money. Today, Mark and Scott dive into one of the biggest traps contractors fall into: saying Yes to too many different kinds of work, and the hidden way is it kills your profitability.
Let's dive into an episode that might be hard for some of us to hear, but that a lot of us need to.
Mark: Welcome back, everybody. Another podcast here with Scott Lollar from C4C.
Scott: Yeah. We're going talk. Yeah, thanks. And we're going to talk about something that's probably going to make you feel pretty uncomfortable,
maybe.
Mark: I hate this subject. Actually, I don't want to talk about this at all because I'm on the hot seat. I'm being grilled because this is a topic I really struggle with in my own business.
Scott: Yeah. Because you love squirrels.
Mark: I do, but I have ADHD, I'm easily distracted. I know not every business owner out there suffers from maybe that particular complex.
But I would say that a lot of business owners who are entrepreneurs by nature struggle with the idea of diversity, [00:03:00] or saying yes to way too much or way too many different things.
The Struggle of Saying No
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Mark: I guess the topic is exactly how to focus in on highly profitable work that our teams can produce repetitively, and we know that we're going to make money.
And then of course, you get the customers that well, while you're here, do you think you could. And it's hard for me to say no, because I've already got that customer. I really want to go the extra mile. I want to impress them, and so I say yes. And you know why I say yes?
Why do I say yes?
Scott: No, you tell me. No, you tell me.
Mark: Well, I, on a psychological level, obviously, I do think there's a need to be liked and appreciated. I don't like to say no, especially when I'm already working for this customer. We have a relationship. Could you rehang the shutters that are falling down? Yeah. Well, while you've got them down, could you rebuild them for me?
Scott: Mm-hmm.
Mark: Yeah. Yeah, we could. But the other reason I say yes is because I've got a guy on my crew who 13 years ago was a carpenter. [00:04:00] And so I'm thinking to myself, I have the skill level in my team, and I know this is resounding with somebody out there listening because they're thinking the same thing. Yeah. I've got this guy on my team who used to do tile, so guess what?
Now our company does backsplash tile work like. It fits. I have the skill. Why would I not say yes? How about you answer that question? Why would we not say yes? Scott Lollar?
The Superman Complex
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Scott: Well, I think one of the reasons why you say "Yes" is a Superman complex, right? It's like, it's about, I can do everything and What's the big deal? So we say yes to things that we think we can do, but really, should we, because first of all, are we experts, right? So I'm not saying you're not, but if you have someone that's painting for you right now, but also does tile, are they a tile person? Are they a painter or are they neither, right? Jack of all trades, master of none. But I think that we also say yes because we are fearful that if we say no, then they're going to say no to everything. And we don't think that we [00:05:00] can say no to say, carpentry or hanging the shutters or, I don't know if this is too soon, but maybe installing a, door Mark Black that you swear up and down is going to just be a slam bam.
But it wasn't. So I think that what happens is we really get stuck into saying yes to things that we shouldn't say yes to just because, mm-hmm. The Superman complex right there. Someone wrote a book about it. That's crazy.
Mark: Yeah, you should check that book out.
Determining Your Core Competencies
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Scott: The question is how do you determine what you are and are not going to do?
And I think it's a fair question. I don't think it's a question that's simple and says you are this, so you're not that. But I think as we're speaking to painting contractors but other contractors as well is, how do you determine what you're going to do and what you're not going to do?
So Mark, I'll ask you.
Mark: Well, and drawing from my own experience, I know a lot of other owners out there came up through the [00:06:00] trade. We, worked with the tools, we worked on the tools on the ladders. And then we graduated into owning a business, which is a completely different job description, by the way. But we never lose that part of us that went through the Great Depression like our grandparents, and it's like I still remember the days when it was tight. So it's hard for us to say no to work. And I'm just talking about in general, it is work. It is a good customer who's willing to pay my prices. There's a little bit of, I don't know what that complex is, like, why would I say no to work ever?
And then there's, like you said, there's that part of wanting to be accepted and liked and it's already a customer. I don't want to do 80% of the job, but tell them no for that other 20% that maybe isn't quite as good for me. We almost use them as loss leaders. It's worth it. because it's part of a big job.
So we take it on the chin. But I think that one of the dangers in that I have found that I have overloaded my team, where it's like, well we don't really do tile. And [00:07:00] I'm trying to talk them into it. Ah, it's just a small bathroom, it's no big deal, we can do that. It's just, 20 pieces of tile,
let's lay it. You're frustrating your team because, you brought it up earlier, are we professional painters or are we tile installers? And, I have found that my team prefers to be professionals, experts in their field, and they do not want to be looked at as the handyman, the jack of all trades. We're here to do really high quality finish work and then we're leaving.
We're not pouring your concrete, we're not fixing your deck. That's somebody else. And I don't want to frustrate my team.
Scott: Right. I heard a story of someone last year that the customer literally, I think, cried that she couldn't get anyone help her paint. I think it was some kind of a log cabin or something like that.
And I think there was some stripping of coating involved, and then somebody said yes to that, and then it turns out the employees were not capable of doing it. So somebody got stuck going a long distance to fix something for a [00:08:00] long time. Is that story sounding like something you know of that? Does
Mark: I,
That's really why I don't like doing this podcast with you, because you know all the behind the scenes stories. Yes, that exactly happened to me just last year.
Scott: Yeah. So she got you to do something but it cost you guys a lot of money, right? Literally, yeah, like cash money. I think.
Mark: Yeah. We paid thousands of dollars to have that job done.
Scott: Yeah.
The Pitfalls of Diversification
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Scott: The question I would say is when do you know that an ancillary service is a good fit for you? So it's very natural for us to go well, carpentry, right? and a lot of people have gone into floor coatings, right? Epoxy and a lot of people go into light remodeling like we've been talking about.
Mark: Sure.
Scott: I don't think any of those things are problematic in and of themselves. And none of those are bad things. Right? And you could obviously make money doing all sorts of those things. People do.
The question comes back to, do we know why we're in business, why we're doing this? [00:09:00] And I would imagine most people will say there's some profit motive, right? None of us are nonprofits, I don't think. So, the question would be what are your profit centers and what do you do well and how do you make money?
Would you agree with that?
Tracking Profitability and Data
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Mark: Sure, but in order to understand your profit center, you'd have to be doing some pretty good data tracking.
Scott: Exactly, and we've talked about this before. You can go back in some of the previous podcasts, but if you're not tracking your profitability of projects by kind of project, first of all, then you're going to struggle to know where you should be putting your time, if you have limited time, and we all do, right?
None of us say, Hey, we simply have way too many people, let's just go into carpentry now. None. Nobody's saying that, right? It's a shocking how many times we hear people say, look yeah, I do great in, in that thing, right? Log cabin homes or replacing a door, we do great. And then when you really niche down on the data, they're shocked to [00:10:00] go, wow. In fact, it was not too long ago, I was talking with a client and he was talking about this epoxy floor that he, had done for his alma mater, right? He would, he had given him a good prize because of the things we're talking about, but he's like, we did good. And we did really drill down on the numbers and in fact he had really taken it on the chin and he emotionally thought we're okay on this.
And the truth is, they weren't.
So I think the first step is before you make emotional decisions about, Hey, let's add this service, or that, I think it should be clear, what do you do well and where are your profit centers? And then, think about the risk involved if you're going to add something and can you add enough of it to staff it appropriately?
If I was going to go into carpentry, I could see tons of examples of residential contractors, repaint contractors doing nicely adding that, doing some bookshelves and some crown molding; do you have enough demand to employ a full-time carpenter as opposed [00:11:00] to getting one of your painters to be a carpenter hack, right?
Mark: Yeah, or what happens often in my case and some friends of mine is, we run across a good potential employee who wants to leave. He's building houses for a living and he is like, Hey, I'd love to come work for you. And you know what I get thinking as an owner? Well, he's got a lot of carpentry experience.
Instead of me teaching him how to be a professional painter, why don't I just add a new service you know, line item to my trucks and say, we now do carpentry and we can do your remodel because I've got Jim, and Jim's a great builder, and he builds custom cabinetry, and now all of a sudden we're really good at that.
And maybe that's technically true, if you hired Jim. The problem is that entire line item of your business depends on Jim.
Scott: Right. And the other thing, going back to your example of can you rebuild a shutter, for example, the answer is, well, very likely, but it's going to take us [00:12:00] five hours per shutter, and that's going to be $300. It might be cost prohibitive, and the customer, when you tell them that, they're going to be like, well no, let's just go buy something different or whatever. There's some questions that can be asked, but just because we can do something doesn't mean we should do something.
And we've seen lots of people, get involved with epoxy floors, right? And epoxy floors are very risky. There's challenges. So again, that's another area where I think, what's the risk and are you going to dabble in epoxy floors, or are you going to be a full-blown epoxy installer where you have the right tools?
Couple technicians that are highly trained and doing it 40 hours a week every week? Or are you like the weekend warrior, going to Home Depot and getting the kit where they swear up and down it can't fail, but of course it does, right?
You know these things about adding services as it makes sense versus just on a whim, you know?
Mark: I would think there is also a component [00:13:00] outside of the profitability, which we need to talk more about tracking that data and knowing the profitability. But I think there's also an aspect of like trainability. How quickly could I train a new employee to either assist Jim or replace Jim? Jim may be excellent at the thing, epoxy floors or carpentry or whatever it may be, but could I replace him?
Could I hire more people to do that? And I think, often we don't really get into that, because Jim's not going to retire for 30 years, so let's just run with it. Right, but what if something happens to Jim? And we've made commitments, and I think that's a hard part is how quickly could I train up a new crew to be able to do this or expand the service?
Scott: You were talking earlier about the depression concept, and I think that's a scarcity mindset is, in today's age, we're like, well, if I need to, and you were talking about when we were young and, getting started and trying to feed our families, we, would say yes to all sorts of crazy things that immediately we knew, I can't believe I just said yes to that, but it [00:14:00] was money, right? It was something. And we had a scarcity mindset and I think that, what happens is when we say yes to the wrong things, then we can't say yes to the right things.
And, so I think just getting clear about what we're going to do and what we're not going to do, but also possibly getting some referral partners people that are really good at drywall or really good at carpentry where, we can refer them.
I know it's sometimes hard to own them as far as, oh, I can't get them to show up on time. But I think you could find some people that can supplement and so you don't have to say yes, but you can say, but I do have a resource.
But I think that a lot of times people think that if they don't say yes to all these components, then they'll lose the job.
You hear this a lot like, well, clients really like a one-stop shop, right? Well, I guess I think that probably sounds nice, but I don't think just because they asked you a question of, Hey, can you do this? I don't think they're saying, if you say no, you're not going to get this job. I think [00:15:00] that's your head trash.
And so what you do is you say yes to things that you shouldn't because that's what you think you have to do. And in fact, if you're not profitable, then you should have said no and gone and get a different job, a different paint job where you know you could make money.
Hey everyone, if you're listening to this and realizing you might be doing too much or offering too many services, or struggling to understand which parts of your business actually make money, this is exactly what Scott helps contractors fix every day with their businesses. You can book a free discovery call with him at the link in the description.
It's completely complimentary, and it's the fastest way to get clarity on your next step. So go ahead and click that link in the show notes, or if you're watching this on YouTube, in the link in the description. Let's jump back into the rest of this extremely helpful discussion.
Mark: It is a good point. And, you ended that with making money. So going back to the data for a minute. I'm blessed to have a wife who as usual is quite [00:16:00] opposite of me, and she is a systems person. She is a data tracker. She loves her hashtags in, we used to use Estimate Rocket and then we switched over to Paint Scout.
But in both ways, we can track service line items with hashtags. And so even on a large project where we may be doing the exterior of a house, she'll track the painting separate from the carpentry and she'll track the deck staining aside from the house so that she knows, do we do well on decks? Do we do well on carpentry?
You can't just look at the Smith job and say, well, we came out at 46%. It's an okay job, right? She wants to know even more than that. Where do we lose money? Are we losing money on carpentry? Should we hire that out? And, she wants to know. And, if you don't have that kind of data, if you're just either relying on emotional feel good, or you're just willing to use it as a loss leader, you may be losing some real potential profit in your company.
Scott: Yeah. Now in hindsight, we both have [00:17:00] someone that we know that is processing right now who they are as a company because painting is a significant component of what they do, but they actually self-perform several things within a commercial construction category, and those are fitting very well, but they have determined which ones they don't fit into, right?
So they don't do everything, but they do four things or so, and they do all four of those really well. And now the conversation with that client is, boy, if you're not careful, you can look an awful lot like a GC, but you're not, you're a carpenter contractor that self performs this and this, and each one of them they do very well and are experts in each one.
Now that's a different conversation, but the conversation still was who are we? Who are we not, right? But they're not a GC, they're not doing full blown construction. They're doing several components of construction for someone else. So even in that [00:18:00] context, it was beneficial to go, Hey, who are we and who aren't we?
And then they could go in confidence down that lane and stay in that lane because when they go outside of that lane, you know, you get hurt and sometimes get hurt badly.
Mark: Right.
Scalability and Trainability
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Mark: with that particular contractor that we were talking about, one of his key things is scalability. If he continues to diversify and does lots of different things, yeah, he might have one guy that can perform the task, but what if you need four guys to do that task? He doesn't have that. He has one.
And so that scalability factor, the trainability is a real hindrance to him. It's worked up to this point, but he is going to have to make a decision both in his training and his recruitment efforts, what do I want to do? And then I would think there's a marketing part of, as you're trying to let customers know what you do, you mentioned the one stop shop earlier, and we've all had that experience where a customer was happy to find that, oh, I can just hire you and you could do everything.
Of course, a customer's going to love the [00:19:00] convenience factor of that. But I would submit, in this day and age, people are so tired of being snookered.
It sounds good. The brochure looked good, your truck looked good, your card looked good. But then when they find out, oh, you're the landscaper, and you install water irrigation, and you do pressure washing, and you can pave my
Scott: Yeah.
Mark: like, you're going to suck at one or more of those.
Scott: all them actually.
Mark: Well, I think customers' eyes are being opened just in like people are diversifying to the point of ridiculousness.
You cannot be everything, and we really just want to hire somebody, at least the customers that we're searching for as we look at our ideal customer, they want somebody who wants really high quality painting and drywall work, which is what we're good at.
Scott: Yeah. Now we also see this when, people get the opportunity, which are mostly fake opportunities, but they think they get a big fish, which is commercial construction, and they go, Hey, I got a big one and they want me, this is a [00:20:00] big job and I don't know how to bid it. And I never did it before, and gosh, I don't have any money to afford to wait 90 days or 60 days or whatever, but gosh, it's a big fish and I'd love a big fish.
And so it's the same type of thing where it's like there's nothing wrong with getting into commercial work, which I'm a big fan of and an expert in, of course. But when is the right time and what's the right project? You know, So understanding when's the right time and getting some history in that I think is just so valuable.
And if it can ruin you, like seriously ruin you, you should stay away because there's no reason to do that. Go start places that it doesn't hurt you. So even if you want to do some of these ancillary things, I would say there's a couple of things I would be thinking about if as you're processing it.
One thing is there some sufficient demand? To have at least one or two full-time people to do it, or can you grow it into that? So if it's not sufficient demand, then it's [00:21:00] really a distraction, right? And, so I would first of all look at the amount of work that you think you would naturally get or could introduce.
Then I would look at the manpower needed, and the accessibility. A lot of people, as we've been talking, take one of their existing people and then give them dual roles. Well, you didn't really increase your business. You actually just, you, just diluted an employee and you just said, okay, you're going to do a little, this little that you did not grow your business.
You, you stayed the same. So that's not growing. That's just adding more chaos to an already existing team. So I think understanding, do you have the manpower to grow that division? And then I think I would set some targets and say, does this make sense? Is this worth it? One of the things we do at C4C is we're working with growth contractors, right?
So people that are heading into the millions and they don't necessarily have to be millions today, [00:22:00] but I think what sometimes you forget is when you start talking about doing two, three, $400,000 every single month, the $2,000 carpentry project all of a sudden becomes a complete thorn in your side.
And I think in your world, and you've experienced that a little bit too, where there's a lot of things that you've said yes to in your area which have become problematic. Because now you have 10 or 20 little things that only Mark can do, and you're the owner, you're the CEO, and you're sometimes relegated to running out, solving some of these problems that you created yourself.
And it's a bottleneck. Customers actually in fact, aren't happy necessarily because they had to wait all this time for whatever it is. And so what we thought was critical, required, is really not great.
Mark: You make some excellent points. A year ago, almost a year and a half ago, we had considered diversing into really bathroom remodels. We had lots of customers ask. We were already [00:23:00] doing significant components of that with the drywall work and the painting. And it's like, if all we have to do is pull some fixtures, put in a new shower and install some tile, why don't we just do all of this? Well, the problem was at the time I had three crew members who all had remodel experience and they were excited about it and wanted to go for it. We started selling some of those. We actually sold several, and then through various means, over a period of four months, I lost all three of those guys.
They left our company for one reason or another, or got fired. Which left us with a whole lot of work that only I was skilled enough to be able to do, and I had no help in my team. We had overinvested in something that I couldn't back up because it was so heavily dependent on just a few team members and that put us behind for months, probably four months of me slogging through just trying to keep up with the commitments that we had made, but terrible business practice.
Scott: Yeah. And as I recall, your wife/CFO was [00:24:00] pretty happy about all that, is that what I remember?
Mark: There were a few, I-told-you-so's, "why in the world are we doing this?" Yeah, there were a few of those.
Scott: Yeah. So as I recall, there was a statement of, well, how, what could go wrong? Like it's easy, like, no problem. And then it was a big problem.
Mark: It's really a problem being an eternal optimist and really confident in yourself. It's a bad mixture.
Final Thoughts and Advice
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Mark: How would you then, Scott, let me put the question back to you. I'm an entrepreneur with a scaling business. I've got opportunities and, of course I could be anyone listening to this podcast.
How would you, as a business coach from the commercial and residential background recommend that we dip our toe into maybe a new area of business? How would you like to see that happen? You've already mentioned the one, have the demand where maybe a few technicians that could go full-time. What are some other key components to growing into a new area of business?
Scott: I think I would, listen to a bit of your heart, I guess I [00:25:00] would call it. So Michael Hyatt, "Free To Focus," that book. There's a concept in there that is maybe the concept, is passion and proficiency, right? So you have that book there too, huh? It's got dust on it? There you go. That's it. You know, I think I would as an owner, if you're, as a business owner I would listen to, do you have passion? Because I think just because we can do it doesn't mean we should do it because we don't have passion around it. So this idea of, is this something I get excited about, right? And then I, think that I would be looking at the demand. And can I build this into some number? I mean, a million dollars. I think that we talk a lot about strategy and around planning. Like where are you headed? And we are the first to admit millions shouldn't be everyone's goal, it really doesn't matter.
Success looks different to a lot [00:26:00] of people, but we all have the same amount of time. And I'm assuming most people want quality of life. Maybe some travel, some flexibility. So the last thing you want to do is lock yourself down to overseeing a new initiative when you don't want to, right? So that's the passion part.
So I would think that if this is something that has legs and can grow into, say, whatever, a million dollars, half a million in a fairly predictable and organic way, or with a little investment in some marketing like you talked about, I think I would really consider taking a pass.
Some of you would be familiar with the name Derek Seavers.
The concept is if it's not a hell yeah, then it's a no, right? So it's again, if we're stuck doing stuff we shouldn't be doing, we can't do the thing. If you can't drive this, make this a significant division, a significant service, then I would just take a pass on it and focus on your core competencies.
The other thing [00:27:00] that I think I would say is check your head trash, and it's a conversation we have a lot when we talk about minimum job size for residential repaint contractors, like I have to do the small ones. No, you don't. You simply don't.
Well, then I might miss out on some other things. I guarantee that the amount of money you miss out on by not doing small jobs is never going to surpass the amount of money, time you waste on this small job, right? So this idea of going, Hey, it's okay for me to say no to this stuff because I'm not going to stall out the rest of my business just to do this drywall repair or just to do this carpentry thing, or just to do this, install some baseboard or whatever it is, right? You name it. And it goes on and on. And I think knowing who you are and who you aren't is going to give you tremendous freedom.
And there's no disrespect, there's no conflict. It's just like, I'd love to help you, but I just can't. Because we don't do that. And when we found that we've gotten talked into it, we let people [00:28:00] down and we don't want to let you down, right? So don't get strong armed in doing things and just remember, what's your purpose?
And if this activity doesn't align with your purpose, then you really should say no, and you should say no ruthlessly. And so I think just knowing who you are and what you are and what you're not, and don't dabble in things. If you're going to do it, jump in both feet and go.
The other thing that I will say, and I had this conversation just today, is sometimes we invest in a lot of equipment and then we don't work that equipment.
You know, we buy big floor machines, or we buy chop saws and miter boxes and all this stuff, right? And then for one or two jobs and, then it just sits in our shops. Think about if you're going to invest in equipment, maybe even vehicles or trailers, to port some of this stuff around.
If you're going in, you better go all the way in and it better be something that has legs to develop into, whatever, half a million or a million dollars in a short order, or else I think I would just take a [00:29:00] pass and focus on. What you really do. And that takes courage because going back to what you said, we have this scarcity mindset.
Like I, I don't know, economy's rough. I just don't know if I say no, what's going to happen? But I think, you're going to be better served to really understand who you are, be clear about that, say no to the things that you're not, and just move on.
Mark: It is great advice, and I, want to say I, I don't always operate from a scarcity mindset. Sometimes I operate the opposite. I'm operating from an optimist standpoint, after a quick mental check, it's like, yeah. How could we possibly lose? That sounds great. We have the skill, we have a customer willing to pay for it.
I have the tools that can do that. It's going to go great and, I don't often either consider the emotional cost to my team because they don't enjoy doing that particular task and they hate it when they're diversifying into something else. And then I don't often always know the data, and my wife loves to remind me, Hey, that job that you thought was going to go great, we made 10%.
Or negative [00:30:00] 10%.
Scott: Yeah, and the problem with you is that you've, already made all these commitments before we could talk you off the ledge, but maybe some of you, when you hear the inner dialogue that Mark just said was, sure we can do that, maybe that's your trigger to say, but let's not, and bring it back to your team and let them talk you off the ledge before you do it.
Sometimes we just need a babysitter or someone to make sure that we don't hurt ourselves or others, right Mark?
Mark: It's a great subject for entrepreneurs, because I think this subject, the diversification, chasing the shiny object is always going to be a part of, especially the trades and business trade business owners. Of course, we're hardwired to go after things. I want to chase the things. We're just reminding people that needs to be done with data.
It needs to be done non emotionally, and then it has to be systematized, which is what C4C is great at.
Scott: Great conversation, Mark. Good to be with you as always.
Mark: Guys, thanks for listening and we'll talk to you next time.
Conclusion: Wrapping Up
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Well, that wraps up another episode of Success [00:31:00] Beyond the Brush. We appreciate you spending this time with us and hope today's conversation gave you some clarity, confidence, maybe even a push you need to start saying no to some of that work that is not serving your business. And if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.
If you're ready to get serious about tightening up your operations, improving your profitability, or building a business that runs with less stress and more intention, check out the links in the description. There's everything from free resources to booking a discovery call with Scott. Thanks again for listening.
We'll see you in the next one.