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This podcast is for anyone who loves a good story. Board now for interviews and writing samples from talented authors!
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Every story is a ticket to somewhere extraordinary. No need to pack a bag, just settle in and let the words transport you. Now boarding: an insight to an author's mind. This is The Story Station.
Emma: What if the fairy tale characters you know are simply rewoven versions of who they once were? Nikki Crown, author of The Truth in the Tale, is here to talk about retelling fairy tales. First off, I always like to ask, why do you write?
Nikki: I am first and foremost a reader. I've been a reader my whole life, and I've actually spent the last... about seven years as a bookstagrammer, as a book reviewer and promoter on Instagram and social media. And I kept coming across the phrase, if you can't find the story you want to read, write it. And I had all these ideas in my head, and I thought, you know what? I think that maybe I could do that. And I met some amazing authors through social media that gave me the courage to do it. They believed in me, and they helped me see that I could. So now I do.
Emma: I haven't read your book yet, but I've been, you know, looking up a lot of stuff on Amazon. I read the reviews. I've read a lot about it, and I'm really excited to read it. I love fairy tale retellings, and it just... I don't know, something... it looks really compelling and good. So I'm happy that you decided to write. How do you choose which elements and which fairy tales to include in your story?
Nikki: I do a lot of digging into where the fairy tales came from originally. And even more past their, like, Hans Christian Andersen origins, back even further than that, there are a lot of stories that have common themes to them that all gave us the fairy tales that we know today. So I love to find the common themes that are woven out, the things that are the same and the things that are different.
And I like to blend the iconic things in there too. I mean, not all versions of Cinderella have a glass slipper, and not all versions of Snow White have a poison apple. Not all Sleeping Beauty has a spinning wheel. But in our world today, those things have become iconic. You know? And they're fun to play with, and they're fun to use. And so I like to blend a mix of the iconic things that people know belong to that story and new things that they maybe weren't aware of were in the original stories and kind of create, like, a treasure hunt for my readers to find the Easter eggs in the middle of the story.
Emma: That is an exciting feeling when you recognize something like, "Oh!" And especially if you can do it in a way that's new and a different take on it.
Nikki: I've had a lot of readers say that was one of their favorite parts of The Truth in the Tale is finding all the little hidden Easter eggs.
Emma: Do you have any advice for how to come up with twists that feel new? Because fairy tales, like you talked about, even the older versions have older versions, and there's so many different retellings of them. So how do you keep it fresh and exciting?
Nikki: For me, it's kind of... have you ever sat through a movie and you're like, "What would happen if..." or, like, "That doesn't really make sense. I wonder..." So that's pretty much where it happened for me. For instance, as I was doing a lot of digging, I found that, like, at its core, Snow White and Sleeping Beauty is the same story. I'm like, "This is the same story." So what would it look like if it was? What would it look like if Snow White and Sleeping Beauty were the same person? How would that look? And then, like, I was doing a lot of research into Peter Pan, and I thought, what if Peter Pan and Captain Hook was the same person, just told from a different perspective?
Or, like, Cinderella, for instance, it never made sense to me that Cinderella was treated like a servant. She is the original daughter of the lord of the manor. It makes sense to me that the stepmother would, that makes sense to me, in her bid for control. But toward the rest of society, to see her as a servant didn't ever make sense to me because she's the person who should be inheriting all of his wealth and all of his manor. And so that part never made sense to me. So I was like, "Well, what would that look like? What would that look like if she was actually supposed to inherit all this stuff, and the stepmother was trying to prevent—" and anyway, so all of that, all of those twists, I've incorporated in my stories. And so that's kind of where it comes from, just intrusive thoughts in my head.
Emma: That never made sense to me either. But that's cool because just asking questions can lead to so much inspiration, I guess. Do you have a favorite fairy tale?
Nikki: Whatever one I'm currently writing. Just because I become so immersed in that world that it becomes my favorite. So right now, I'm currently writing a Peter Pan retelling, and I've loved digging into all of the backstory. J. M. Barrie actually has a whole lot of information that didn't end up in Peter Pan and Wendy that has a whole background on Captain Hook, all of this information of Wendy that has been really, really fun. So currently, Peter Pan is my favorite.
Emma: That is so cool. So with your book, it's a series, right?
Nikki: Yes.
Emma: So does each book feature different characters, or does it kind of have a continuation of the same characters but with new ones added in?
Nikki: Yes.
Emma: Yes. That's so fun. Is there a fairytale that you haven't retold yet, but you would like to?
Nikki: I would actually love to do the Swan Princess. When I was a little girl, well, eleven, twelve, I saw the animated version that came out in the nineties. And I loved the concept, but I did not love some of their execution. And I would love to see a little bit more of the dynamic between Derek and Odette in that story. Going from enemies to friends to more, I think, could be built really, really well. And the whole... I don't know if you've ever seen it, but the whole "What else is there?" comment.
Emma: Yeah.
Nikki: I'm like, that could be done really well too. Like, there could be a lot of things, if you had more time than an hour and twenty minutes in an animated video, there could be a lot that could be played with with that. So that's coming, but it's quite a few books away.
Emma: That must be frustrating waiting for that next part.
Nikki: Yeah.
Emma: But I guess there's always more to focus on in the current fairy tales like you've been talking about.
Nikki: Yeah.
Emma: Tell me a little bit about your writing process.
Nikki: It actually took me a really long time to find my writing process. I did not get a degree in creative writing or English, but I did take a lot of those kind of classes when I was at school. But I... It had been a really long time since I had graduated from college when I decided to start writing. And so it took me a while to figure out what worked for me. I went to a lot of writing conferences and talked to a lot of authors to try and figure out what works for me and what doesn't. And I found out that on the scale from, like, plotter to pantser, I'm, like, dead center.
Emma: Mhmm.
Nikki: Like, right in the middle. I love a lot of the background research. I love figuring out my characters and what they need and what they want and their weaknesses and their strengths and their physical attributes, even going far as, like, finding images online that might reflect what I think they are.
But then I do a very basic outline as far as what my plot will entail. It's very, very basic. I took a class from Lisa Mangum where she talked about the anatomy of a story, and that, like, finally clicked things for me where my outline's just like, here's the inciting incident. Here's my first plot point. Here's my midpoint. Here's my second plot turn. Here's my climax and my resolution. And a few, like, very basic scenes that would reflect that, but, like, two or three sentences at most.
And then I just write. So my actual outline is not very detailed, but I do a lot of background work before I get to that point.
Emma: You mentioned researching the different fairy tales and doing some character research. Is there any historical research you do as well to reflect maybe where the fairy tales came from?
Nikki: Yes. So much. So much. Even though even though my story is a fantasy, it's not really a mystical, magical, epic fantasy. And so I wanted it to be set in, like, a recognizable time and place. And since most fairy tales have kings and queens, I needed some kind of time where those were prevalent. And so I chose to base my stories in the 1600s off the coast of France, the little island off the coast of France.
So a lot of my world building is constantly fact checking. Would they have used that word then? How would they have cleansed a wound? What was proper for relationships? What were inheritance laws like? But I'm a bit of a nerd, so that kind of stuff is fascinating to me. So it's just as fun as writing. But I have to be careful not to get distracted by the research rabbit holes that I find.
Emma: That can be so hard. It's like I sit down to write and then I'm just researching and soon, like, two hours later, I'm like, "Woah! I should have been writing." But it all helps, right?
Nikki: Yeah. Yeah.
Emma: How do you approach writing the villains in your fairy tales?
Nikki: I took an amazing class from Jennifer Nielsen where she said your story is only as intellectually fascinating and emotionally compelling as your villain, and I loved that. So the creation of villain has always kind of fascinated me. I love villains that are complex but that have, like, empathetic backstories. So that's what I strive for. I also love it when there's, like, more than one villain, and the actual antagonist is hiding in plain sight. So take that for what it's worth in my coming books.
Emma: I think that's tricky because especially in fairy tales, it seems like there's just good and evil a lot. Like, there's kind of a common trope that's like, why are they so bad? They're just bad. So that even adds a different layer on top of the fairy tales that we all know. On the flip side of that, how do you approach writing your heroes?
Nikki: I love flawed heroes. I think we're all very imperfect people, and we make mistakes every day. So if people are going to connect to the hero, then they have to be the same way. They need to be flawed and imperfect.
So book one that came out in January of the Fairy Tales Rewoven series has four main characters, and each of them has something that they see is a weakness, that through the course of their journey, that fatal flaw is going to become their biggest strength. I think things that we face every day—anxiety, shyness, ADHD, PTSD—those are all part of us, but they don't define who we are. That's not who you are as a person. So for me as a hero doesn't overcome their struggles, but they use those things that others or themselves see as weaknesses to become stronger, to become better, and to make the lives of those around them better. I think a hero takes their weaknesses and improves their life and the lives of those around them.
Emma: I like that. That's really powerful. Do you have a snippet that you would like to read today?
Nikki: I do. So my snippet is actually from my current work in progress. I thought that would be really fun to just have a little sneak peek into book two. So book one is about a core group of friends. I love stories that are interconnected by friendship and by that found family kind of feel. And so there are a group of four friends, and then they add one more to this collection. James and Reagan and Xander, our three best friends, and then Xander's sister, Emberly, is part of their little group. And we get a lot from Xander and Emberly and Reagan in book one, but we don't hear or see very much about James, only little bits. So book two is actually all about James, and it is my Peter Pan retelling. And my books all start with a prologue. I know you're not supposed to do that, but it works. And the identity of the person in the prologue is yet unknown. So here we go.
Prologue, Kingdom of Renovare, four years post insurrection.
"Tonight, we're going to visit Everland." I had already made myself comfortable on the edge of Moira's bed, the ties of my satin dressing gown pulled tight in my waist, my bare feet tucked under my hem. We were snuggled in for the story to come.
Moira's response was as predictable as my sister's sarcasm.
"You promised we'd pick up right where we left off." She was lying propped on her pillow, her arms crossed, and her face crunched adorably. Shuffling ever closer, I pulled her leg snug against my hip and gave it a squeeze.
"And we are."
Moira's indignation didn't retreat as she countered, "But you said there was a true story. Everland is pirates and mermaids and magical islands and the stars." Moira's face had turned a little dreamy as she finished her sentence, and the same stars were shining from her eyes. She hadn't outgrown fairy tales as much as she liked to assert.
I rubbed my hand up and down her legs in reassurance. "Do you remember how I also told you that every myth, every legend carries in it a grain of truth?"
Moira simply nodded her head in reply. I let a full smile pull the edge of my lips as I tucked my feet in closer to my body.
"Everland is located by charting the second star north of Polaris," I let the sentence dangle.
Moira didn't disappoint as her soft voice finished, "And heading toward heaven."
I gave her an encouraging nod of my head and waited to see if she would continue. She sat up, placing her arms on her knees.
"The island is covered in stunning waterfalls, clear blue pools of water, and hills covered in lush free fountains of all kind."
When she paused, I added a few sentences of my own. "Everland is a safe haven for all the lost, a place of refuge. The first boy to ever find his way to Everland was a young boy named James. James wasn't always lost. He had a mother and a father just like we all do, and he had three best friends that meant the world to him... until his mother took them away."
Chapter one, four years earlier.
Jameson had been helping in the local apothecary since he was twelve. He started his apprenticeship two years later, and now at twenty, he was rarely in the shop. The red rash had hit their town like shadows of the night. It crept through each house, hitting those under the age of twenty the hardest.
The Haversham home was his first stop that morning. Neglect clung to every space of the small cluttered room, as if its occupants had been called away unexpectedly and not returned. Mrs. Haversham was wringing her hands as she led him over to the bed in the corner. The child in it shrank back at his approach.
The odd mask tied firmly to Jameson's face often caused such a reaction in his young patients. Adopting his silliest pirate voice, Jameson swung his arms wide, and then with an exaggerated arc, he framed his masked face with his two hands.
"I know my mask looks scary, but that's because it belonged to a pirate. I just defeated the dread pirate, Silver Toes. I stole his enchanted mask so I could come visit you and not get sick. Let me tell you how I bested him."
Jameson spun his tail for the girl, his knees bouncing and his arms swinging. He created daring sword fights in high seas spaces. Fifteen minutes of storytelling later, he finally paused.
"Do you want to see what else I stole from the vile pirate?"
The little girl's head bobbed up and down a few times. Jameson slowly pulled out one of his apothecary powders. He had placed them in pretty perfume bottles with swirling designs on the side, switching out the pump on top for a simple metal cap. This particular one was pink, a little stout, with crawling rose vines. Even to him, it looked a little mythical, but all it held inside was a simple fever powder.
"Pixie dust," Jameson told the little girl as he presented the bottle to her. The little girl's eyes grew even larger on her already gaunt face as she turned the bottle around in her delicate hands. "I've been looking for this particular thing since people started getting sick. It's supposed to help those who are ailing. Legend says all we need to do is sprinkle a little bit of dust in your tea, and you'll feel better in no time."
He gently took the bottle as he asked, "should we try it?"
The little girl nodded again. Jamieson turned to see Mrs. Haversham, already bringing over a small teacup filled with the previously instructed ingredients. The little girl watched as he generously sprinkled some dixie dust on top, then stirred it around.
"It will only work if you drink it all. Promise me you'll drink it all?"
The little girl dipped her head a final time and took the small cup in her little hands. Jameson stepped back from the bed and walked with the mother a few steps away.
"That one's for the fever. She seems at the early stages, and we might get lucky. Make sure you do as I instructed; keep her as clean as possible, and continue to keep the other children away from her. Send for me if she gets worse, and I'll be back tomorrow sometime to check on her."
Mrs. Haversham nodded, looking like an older version of her daughter. The look of hope had not completely gone from her eyes, and he prayed nothing happened to distinguish it.
The little girl at his next stop reminded him a lot of Emberly. Her hair wasn't quite as black, but it was close. Her eyes were now muted green, and the illness had made them lose a lot of the wonder that Emberly's always had. She was a spitfire, though, and he wasn't sure if he could handle if the fire had gone out of her when he arrived. Taking a deep breath, he softly knocked at the well-worn door.
An answering "come" from inside had him pushing the door open. Both parents were sitting next to the little girl's bed in the two room home. One was holding her hand and the other was slowly wiping her forehead with a damp towel. Neither of them had moved as he entered more fully into the house, but Mrs. Barnett spoke.
"We've done everything you've asked. She's not getting worse, but she's not getting better."
Jameson walked over to the bed on the opposite side of the room and directed his words to the little girl. "Stella, do you promise me that you drank every last bit of your pixie dust?"
Stella opened her eyes and turned her head in his direction. The fire in her eyes was on full display and Jameson sent a prayer of gratitude to the sky.
"That gross, non-magic concoction you gave me last time? I drank what I could of it."
Stella's mother had started to stand, but paused at the statement. "You told us you drank it all."
Stella just turned her head back to the wall.
Sitting next to the bed, Jameson did something he'd never yet done. He took off his mask and held it in his hands, pulling the ribbons in and out of his fingers. "Stella, look at me."
Stella half turned in his direction, but kept her eyes on the ceiling. He stayed silent until her eyes finally flicked in his direction. She steeled when she noticed he'd taken his mask off.
"I'm not going to sugarcoat things. I'm not going to play pretend with you, but I'm also going to be real with you. I've been treating people with this illness for going on two weeks now, and I've only noticed one difference between those that get well and those that don't."
"They drink all their pixie dust?" Stella interrupted him, her words dripping with disdain, her eyes stuck on the ceiling above her.
Jameson put his elbows on his knees and leaned forward, invading her space only slightly to get her to listen. "No, Stella. They believe."
Stella turned fully in his direction at that statement. "They believe in pixie dust?" Her words were incredulous.
"No, Stella," he repeated. "They believe they'll get better." Jameson sat back, crossing one leg over the other and held it still. "Whether that's due to believing pixie dust or just sheer grit and determination doesn't really matter, but I've seen it too many times to doubt it now. The people who believe they'll get better, do. The people who've given up before I even come, there's nothing else I can do for them." Jameson shrugged one shoulder, one arm resting casually across the side of his chair, the other across his bent knee, perpetuating a casual air. "The only thing I can do for those who don't believe is ease their pain as they give up life altogether."
Stella looked at him for a long time, her shallow breaths moving the quilt up and down in even succession. Jameson watched as the fire in Stella's eyes turned from spite to determination before he leaned forward once more.
"I don't think you're ready to give up, Stella, but you've got to believe." At the roll of Stella's eyes as they returned once more to the ceiling, Jameson pushed on. "I don't need you to believe in my stories, but promise me you'll start believing you'll get better and start doing everything in your power to make it happen. If you do those two things, I can probably save you a trip to Everland."
Jameson gave her a crooked smile and a wink. The more he talked, the more Stella turned her head in his direction. At the wink, a slight blush dusted the tops of her sunken cheeks.
"Can you believe for me, Stella?"
Stella was quiet again before she whispered out, "Believe in my ability to get better?"
Jameson nodded, but didn't move the rest of himself. It took all of his concentration to hold everything, including his breath, perfectly still waiting for her answer.
"Yeah," Stella finally breathed out.
Jameson let a full smile spread across his face. "Good. Now let's get you some gross-tasting medicine."
Emma: That was so cool. I love how you revealed his character through just kind of going about his everyday life, and you there's so much that we learned about him.
Nikki: He's been a really fun character to write.
Emma: Is there anything else that you would like to share about your books or about writing?
Nikki: I guess if you've ever wanted to write yourself or if you've ever had ideas in your head that you're like, "but I don't I'm not good enough" or "I don't think I could do it," my advice would be to don't listen to that voice. Don't listen to that voice inside that says you're not good enough, that says you could never do it. Just ignore that voice and do it anyway. Do it anyway and just start. I feel like... Writing is hard. It is hard. It's super hard. And putting yourself out there, creating something that's close to your heart, and then giving it to the world is a really hard thing to do. But I've found that the writing community is an amazing community. They're a community that supports each other and motivates each other, and it's a beautiful place to be a part of.
Emma: That is great advice. Because you're right. It takes a lot of perseverance to write. I don't know. There's some good writing days where you just feel like, "Yes. I am getting things done! I'm writing!" And then there's other days where you might feel like, "Oh my gosh. I should just give up. It's too hard." And it's hard to find the motivation sometimes, so I love that. If you want to write, you just have to write.
Nikki: Just do it. Nike hit it on the head. Just do it. I've talked to a lot of authors who have been doing this for a really long time, and even they say that sometimes imposter syndrome sets in. Sometimes they aren't motivated to write, so it doesn't matter how far you are along your journey. You're gonna have ups and downs continue for the rest of your career. So just embrace it.
Thank you for traveling with us. Next stop, your work of art. Poetry, fiction, creative nonfiction, you name it. Email us at storystation@riverbendmediagroup.com. Submission guidelines are not shy; they can be found in the podcast description. The Story Station, hosted by Emma, is a production of Riverbend Media Group.