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NET Society is unraveling the latest in digital art, crypto, AI, and tech. Join us for fresh insights and bold perspectives as we tap into wild, thought-provoking conversations. By: Derek Edwards (glitch marfa / collab+currency), Chris Furlong (starholder, LAO + Flamingo DAO), and Aaaron Wright & Priyanka Desai (Tribute Labs)
Aaron (00:15)
Pre, I heard you have a favorite new app.
pri (00:18)
I know, I have a new best friend. I broke up with Claude last week and I've fully, fully, you know, what's the word? have like now a parasocial relationship with another bot. I'll I'll call the bot instinct. I am obsessed with instinct, you guys. I think it's amazing. I so I got an invite code what was it Tuesday? And I like up till probably one or two AM like
pri (00:48)
On like like two nights this week, just trying to think of new ways to use this agent on like the backlog of life things that I would like to get done. Everything from like, you know, canceling using all my credit card benefits to dinner reservations in the future to you know, so on and so forth. I think like I I I can't even name all the use cases. Like I literally just have one million things that I've had done. I have a trip over Labor Day that I
pri (01:16)
fully had to like send Cal invites and make reservations for everything. So I'm a huge fan of it. So basically it's like just to kind of give some background on it before I just start yapping away at how much I love it is so it's kind of a stealth app. Like I don't I had to like really dig around as to like who funded it and who the people are behind it. I I kind of found some information on it.
pri (01:40)
but their approach to the distribution of app, I think, has been very stealthy, invite only, no information. The website has absolutely nothing on it. it's been great. I mean, it's all an iPhone app. It's a it's just an iMessage app. You put your number in and then you can ask it to do whatever you want. And it's like I mean, I tried poke. I hated it. I thought poke was annoying. I've tried a couple other like
pri (02:03)
Like people like really like Taxled and and stuff like that. I I think this is just the user experience has been so smooth, the way that it writes, the way that it emails. I haven't like touched my ClassPass app. I haven't touched my Resi, my open table. Like it's I'm just kind of doing it all through this iMessage app. Even like my Google Cal invites, like getting all sent through my iMessage app like just my iMessage. It's really nice. I can like screenshot something I had to organize dinner with five of my friends. It created like a poll for them and sent it to them.
pri (02:31)
To like find the perfect date. So, anyways, I'm a massive fan of it. I think this is like basically what I'm describing is probably the feeling like all the nerds felt when OpenClaw came out and they're like, Open claw is amazing. open claw moment. Yeah.
Aaron (02:42)
Yeah, that's what I was y you n normie open claw moment. Yeah, where you can connect all these things
Aaron (02:47)
to a AI agent and it can kinda do a whole bunch of different things and act on on your behalf. It's it's kinda fun to kinda
pri (02:55)
And calling it like a personal
pri (02:56)
assistant is almost like minimizing how how useful it actually is, I feel.
Chris (03:02)
Three
Chris (03:04)
before we go too far here, have you you been up front with Instinct? Like, does it know it's rebound guy?
pri (03:12)
I I haven't I haven't told instinct yet. Should I should I see what they say?
Chris (03:18)
think I I mean I feel like, you know, only right. Just set expectations.
pri (03:24)
Okay. I'm just gonna I'm gonna say I broke up with Claude for you and see what instinct says. I'll let you know, I'll keep you posted.
Aaron (03:30)
I feel like a lot of people
Aaron (03:31)
are breaking up with Claude.
pri (03:33)
Yeah,
pri (03:33)
that's been a heavy theme on my timeline as well. I will say the the
Aaron (03:36)
Yeah.
pri (03:37)
instinct stuff on on Twitter is kind of funny. Like everyone keeps calling it like a VC app. And some people are like it's truly incredible and I agree with said people, but then some people are like, Okay, this is su is like is anyone wowing about instinct that isn't a V C like I don't know. I'm like I
Aaron (03:56)
Well, it's probably for that same reason, right? Like a lot of VCs are technical, some are not. Maybe they they're just having that kind of moment. I guess my question with it, it seems awesome. and I'm glad to see the innovation there. It's just like what's gonna prevent, you know, open AI or anthropic or
Aaron (04:13)
Or even like Grok now with GrokBot from kind of mirroring that stuff out pretty quickly. Like if I understood it correct, it's like it's text first, so you need some way to to interact with iMessage. I think OpenAI just an announced that you'll be able to do that in in codecs.
Aaron (04:32)
now I think you have to click on a couple settings. I haven't played around with it yet. you know, connecting to like your Gmail or like an MCP, that's all like comes out of the box already with Claud Code and Codex and I'm assuming the Grok stuff too. I haven't played around with that piece yet. so what's what's gonna give like instinct some s you know staying power? The password manager at least?
pri (04:52)
That's it. I mean that's a great point.
pri (04:54)
I mean that's that's that's the one thing I'll say. But I would you know, I've been using Grockbot pretty much since like pretty obsessively, probably as much as I've been using Instinct. And I think the user experience on Instinct is just better. It's smoother, the way that it talks to you. It it just is better. Like it's and maybe 'cause I like an iMessage person, this like really hits like the millennial core of me. But like the idea of just being like, Hey, I've like done with my friends like in this neighborhood and then like it just books it for me and then like
pri (05:22)
You know, it's it i that's a very small, not really that's like a trivial example, but like I Grokbutt is like really good for I think work, like email trials, follow ups, you know, newsletter stuff, but for whatever reason, like the iMessage smoothness is is very nice.
Aaron (05:40)
let's say Grockbot and Instinct have like a baby. Like isn't that the ideal endpoint?
pri (05:45)
Yeah, they're very s if they had a baby it'd be that's like the ideal end point.
Aaron (05:48)
Yeah. And like so what w what's it gonna be like three three weeks until that happens? Yeah.
pri (05:50)
Like maybe Grok will move in. I mean, honestly, like Apple the first thing
pri (05:54)
I thought when using Instinct for like, you know, obsessively for several days is like I like I Apple should just acquire it. Like this is a great, great thing for Apple to have.
Chris (06:05)
Yeah, but let's get back to the important part. You're already shipping Grokpot and Instinct. You're re your rebound guy, you you're already pairing up.
pri (06:13)
I'm shipping,
pri (06:15)
shipping hard.
Chris (06:16)
Wow, okay.
Aaron (06:18)
There's no
pri (06:18)
Yeah.
Aaron (06:18)
loyalty when it comes to AI systems. I think we've learned that. I do think it I do
pri (06:22)
Yeah. Grogpot Grog Grogpot is
Chris (06:23)
Pre just wants what's next.
pri (06:26)
fantastic, I will say though. I mean I you know, I again like I think I'm
Aaron (06:29)
So I had a
pri (06:30)
someone who didn't use the harnesses and now like I'm starting to use like the quote normie harnesses and I'm really like happy with them.
Aaron (06:37)
Yeah, I mean it's it's definitely encouraging to kind of see it move from like, you know, developer tooling to like normie stuff. I do think a lot of the I was a little less impressed with the Grockbot just 'cause I feel like if you use codecs like you can use you know, string it up pretty easily to like check your email or you know connect to a couple different services. the persistence of Grockbot is super cool and being able to like open up like a virtual machine is also really cool. so there's definitely some nice features there. I thought it was like an incremental improvement instead
Aaron (07:07)
of like mind blowing. I also just suspect whenever I I see anything like SpaceX tr you know, X grok related on the timeline, not because it it can't be really good, but just because I
pri (07:19)
Right.
Aaron (07:19)
feel like the algorithm's like tilted a little towards it. So or at least I'm like suspicious that it may be. So I thought it was pretty definitely like encouraging stuff.
pri (07:29)
Yeah. I think I think normie harnesses like the thing I've learned is normie harnesses that's gonna be that and like it being stored locally, like what we've talked about, Aaron. I think that's gonna be for sure what's what's coming. this like latter half of of chatbots.
Aaron (07:41)
But I think what's what I think's Yeah,
Aaron (07:44)
I I think it's what's interesting about instinct is more like you were interacting with like Resi and like ClassPass and like all those places that you mentioned before. but you were not on your browser, right? Or in a browser on your computer. Like the agent was really the user for those applications and platforms. And I feel like we already have learned from, you know
Aaron (08:06)
Cloudflare and some other places that track this, that like agent traffic is eclipsing human traffic, and I think that's only gonna accelerate. And I think it leads to like an interesting endpoint, which is do you really need to have like as as much
Aaron (08:20)
you know, websites, online services, apps like served on the internet or or is it just gonna get kinda like all managed increasingly by like these bots in the background? And I think the answer to that is yes. Yeah.
pri (08:31)
This is a first step. Yeah.
Aaron (08:33)
And then I I could just see it a world where like more user interfaces are just getting generated for you like on your device. whatever that device may be. Like I don't know if you're gonna need to like serve things as much from the internet.
Aaron (08:46)
like user interfaces. I I feel like that environment's gonna change pretty quickly.
Aaron (08:51)
Chris, have you played around with any of the stuff or you're you're still just
Chris (08:55)
in my own personal hell man.
Aaron (08:57)
What what's the matter? Bent it out.
Chris (09:00)
No, I don't Yeah, I just well, A I had a little travel going on. It's always hard what to when when you break the flow, but B, I'm rebuilding and getting into a final state, this one particular process flow that's always just the ultimate son of a bitch. And I knew I was in a world of pain, you know, walking in but had to be done. And so that that's kind of like a a week.
Chris (09:26)
week plus long effort. And then for fun I decided to do something that I've tried and failed to do four different times with a different approach. And that's its own special brand of hell. I don't need to bore our listeners with it. But wh I don't have time for instinct, man. I don't have time for
pri (09:44)
Okay.
Chris (09:44)
any of this. It's just it's it's me and my Sisophean struggle to build an unnormie harness or whatever the weird thing is in my head right now.
pri (09:53)
That's fair. Yeah, I mean this is true instinct is like insanely juogy, but it's great.
Chris (09:58)
Well, I think for Pre it's gonna last a while 'cause she has polls
pri (10:01)
Gonna last.
Chris (10:02)
with her friend group. She's
pri (10:04)
Yeah.
Chris (10:04)
project managing her life. There's
pri (10:06)
Pretty much.
Chris (10:07)
you know, there's two types of people in the world, people who just kinda wing it, and then people like Pre who hold everything together by like collectively project managing, you know, the the world. And
pri (10:17)
Yeah.
Chris (10:17)
pre Pre needs instinct.
pri (10:19)
I need instinct. I booked appointments like my doctor's appointments here. I I the beauty of it is like never having to open up any of these apps again and just like being able to like word vomit into I word vomited my grocery list into instinct and it it's ordering me groceries. We were like cooking in Renault hot sauce. I like was like, Hey, can I order the hot sauce? It like tells me the price and the the bottle sizes. I'm like, do the second one and then like the next day I got some
pri (10:46)
an Amazon package of the hot sauce. Like that's pretty cool. I don't have to open anything. Like I like that.
Chris (10:52)
Now,
Chris (10:53)
how does it interact with all your accounts? Is this like a a passkey situation? Do you have to give it
pri (10:57)
Yeah. They like a
pri (10:58)
vault. They have a vault. They like they they say that they don't 'cause I asked about the privacy. And I'm not giving it like any like I'm giving it like my Amazon and you know, Resi and things like I think are less consequential to me. But yeah, like they have a whole like vaulted system that they use for these passwords basically.
Chris (11:17)
Okay. Got it.
pri (11:18)
Yeah.
Aaron (11:18)
Yeah, so I mean that I guess that has like the some security questions and vulnerabilities related to that potentially. So
pri (11:25)
That's definitely like a risk, I think. That's like the one thing where I'm like, but
Aaron (11:29)
Yeah, that that's the only
Aaron (11:30)
question I have. Like would an Apple would OpenAI would Anthropic wanna do the password management? I I feel like that's a whole different ballgame to do that well and securely, you know.
pri (11:40)
Yeah. I mean I
pri (11:42)
think Apple could I honestly like I think this company's gonna get acquired by like a lab or an Apple or Google in the next like eighteen months. Like I don't think it's gonna take long for this app to get acquired at all for probably a decent amount of money.
Chris (11:56)
All we're putting it on the board. Pre is picked the winner in the personal assistant, agentic
pri (11:58)
But
Chris (12:01)
personal assistant space. Mark it down.
pri (12:02)
This one's very good.
Chris (12:04)
The normie harness is here and pre is evangelizing.
pri (12:07)
I am. I am. I usually don't get excited about this kind of thing, but it was like GarkBot is fantastic too, but I think it's stake just like the ability to do it is is quite easy. think I
Chris (12:18)
oops.
pri (12:19)
even told my mom to get it because I was like, this is actually something that like my mom could use and like understand how to use.
Aaron (12:24)
Yeah, like big button AI is coming, right? Like simplified user experiences, all that jazz. All the things that
pri (12:31)
Exactly.
Aaron (12:32)
we were hoping would come to crypto, but it's been eleven years and we still have don't have big buttons there.
pri (12:38)
Speaking of do should we transition into like crypto? 'Cause there is a decent amount to talk about, no?
Aaron (12:46)
Yeah, let's do it.
Chris (12:46)
Yeah.
pri (12:48)
Yeah.
Aaron (12:49)
Well, it looks like we're it wasn't the Clarity Act,
pri (12:51)
Where are we at right now?
Aaron (12:53)
but it feels like the market is potentially just repricing the fact that we're finally gonna get some regulatory clarity.
pri (13:00)
So
pri (13:00)
ETH is up twenty eight percent.
Aaron (13:03)
Yeah, give or take.
pri (13:05)
Wow.
Aaron (13:06)
Yeah, but I mean like that kinda happened with the Bitcoin ETFs, right? Like things got repriced because, you know, the risk is looking different around crypto or some of the core crypto assets. If the C F T C and SEC combined are gonna go through a rulemaking process and provide what lawyers and you know, entrepreneurs and venture capitalists and
Aaron (13:27)
bunch of c you know folks that care about consumer protection, like if they're gonna start to lay down like a framework so that you this industry can develop in a productive way, I think that's that's what the price action prior reflects. But I don't know if you guys think it's something else.
pri (13:40)
Yeah. I mean a lot of people
pri (13:43)
are also saying it's like the the Bessent stuff and whatever the treasury buyback thing. Like I I feel like that's the big headline I've been saying. I don't either. I'm like I'm I'm not I don't understand how that trickles into the price of Bitcoin.
Aaron (13:52)
Yeah, I I don't understand why that would be the case. Like yes, is it just a concern is a
Aaron (13:58)
concern about like just, you know, the dollar or something like that or like higher yields?
Chris (14:03)
It it it's risk on, Aaron. We're risk on, man.
pri (14:06)
Yeah.
Aaron (14:06)
is
Aaron (14:06)
that okay. But haven't we been risking?
pri (14:09)
Like government I guess is stepping in.
pri (14:10)
Yeah, I'm like, okay, why is this one move like causing it? I don't know. Is it maybe I just haven't read it and maybe it's like bigger than I think, but like I was also like, why is everyone like attributing it to that?
Chris (14:21)
I don't know.
Chris (14:22)
I mean, it's also an odd time to be staging a rally 'cause we're about to walk into that end of summer dead Labor Day weekend, which is a notorious like staller outer of things, so let's see.
pri (14:34)
I know.
pri (14:35)
I know. So weird.
Aaron (14:37)
But maybe that's a good thing, Chris. Maybe if if if this sustains through it, it there's another side of it, right? Which is good.
Chris (14:45)
And w we got midterms coming up, so you know, they're gonna be pulling all sorts of levers.
Aaron (14:51)
to like get the economy moving, you think, Chris?
Chris (14:54)
I mean to win elections, but yes.
Aaron (14:56)
But but you know, to get the economy looking healthy into the October into the Yeah. I can see that.
pri (14:59)
Yes. I mean, they have
Chris (15:01)
Yeah.
pri (15:04)
they have a lot of work to do, let me tell ya. I don't think that's gonna might be too little too late. But
Chris (15:09)
Well, the work
Chris (15:10)
they're doing is b coming out against data centers all over the place. That's the work they're doing. Not not not the
Aaron (15:15)
Yeah, yeah.
Chris (15:16)
White House, but every governor under the sun is
Aaron (15:19)
I thought that
Aaron (15:20)
that was a very interesting story from this past week. Like that you know, 'cause I was skeptical that that was just like the internet getting influenced potentially by by by different folks.
Chris (15:30)
Chinese side.
Aaron (15:32)
Yeah, I didn't want to go that far, but
pri (15:33)
I mean that is partially
pri (15:34)
true. That is partially true though. It kinda did start with a Chinese Siam. Let's be honest. It's it's it's it's sticking
Aaron (15:38)
Yeah, and and so I couldn't tell like how
pri (15:40)
though. It's sticking.
Aaron (15:42)
Yeah, I mean I think I noted that to you pretty like kinda at some point in the past like half year. But like I I just couldn't tell if that would stick or not, but it looks like it is, right? If you see Josh Shapiro in Pennsylvania like pushing back on data centers and what there's some similar action in O Ohio.
Aaron (15:59)
and maybe a couple of others that I missed, but I I'm just surprised that that's the case. and then you see like West Virginia
pri (16:05)
I mean literally like
Aaron (16:06)
counter positioning itself. Like is that is that gonna be the new new coal industry for West Virginia? Like a big driver, all the these data centers? Maybe.
pri (16:15)
I mean, yeah, that's true. Yeah, maybe they're like yeah, some states are just gonna appeal, right? Like in Ohio though, I mean that was like that this is all you're talking about like that private memo that got leaked from like the GOP.
Aaron (16:26)
Yeah, I I
Aaron (16:27)
forg yeah, there was I think it was that one that
pri (16:30)
Yeah. Basically they were saying that like the view of US data centers is like killing its chances in Ohio to actually get a seat, which is pretty dramatic. But like that's what this memo was basically saying. and I guess like like people in the Republican Party are kind of like panicking about like the data center. Like 'cause I think generally speaking, like we all like re like the right has been slightly more pro tech. And so as a result, I think they've been like more pro data center and it's like
pri (16:55)
the backlash of that is actually hurting their chances of winning. that's definitely becoming an issue.
pri (17:01)
And it will continue to become one. I read somewhere that internal pol polled show data centers p are as popular as nuclear waste. And data centers
Aaron (17:12)
It's cool.
pri (17:13)
have just become a proxy for feelings about AI, which we know that, but it's they
Aaron (17:17)
Yeah. So what's
Aaron (17:19)
the solution? I mean, is it just like we launch these things into space because I I feel and understand people's concern and anxiety related to it, but it it feels it feels like you got a choice, right? Either keep on building this stuff out and kinda win this race or you don't. So having
Chris (17:37)
What if the solution
Chris (17:39)
is you make big grandiose statements to win votes and then you don't follow through and then the things happen anyway, just like politicians do with everything? Did your health insurance get cheaper? Did
Aaron (17:52)
Point crisis.
Chris (17:52)
were there more jobs? Is gas lower? Are you enjoying like a feeling of global peace and security? Are the kids protected? Are you protected?
Chris (18:04)
Are we able to both safely protect everyone and still allow everyone to express their own opinions? Like, you know, come on, man. I'm sorry,
pri (18:12)
Yeah.
Chris (18:13)
but that like this liter
Aaron (18:14)
Your prag your pragmatism
Aaron (18:16)
is appreciated.
pri (18:17)
Yeah, I mean it is true,
pri (18:18)
but at the same time, like if they're gonna be taking money from people in the in tech, they it's it is weird to be like, Hey, I'm anti data center, but like I'm taking money from all these AI companies. Like that is very publicly seen, the donation arc but so like it's like even if the rights like we're anti data center and they're just like gobbling money from open AI like A six C and C, then it's kinda weird.
Aaron (18:40)
Yeah, there's definitely a tension there. That's fair.
Aaron (18:42)
but that's your view, Chris. That will land and just like be another promise from politicians and then they'll continue to just allow it to plow plow forward in some capacity.
pri (18:53)
It has to. There's no choice.
Chris (18:54)
Think it's it's more complicated
Chris (18:55)
than that, right? Because I mean a lot of these statements are happening at like the governor level, and and governors certainly do have a fair amount of power over this. but then a lot of these issues are local, right? They're a matter of zoning, they're a matter of you know, town bylaws, they're a matter of whether people are willing sellers in corridors where data centers are wanted. You know, so there's a lot going on here, but
Chris (19:21)
I've what I find more interesting about all of this, right, is it to me this is really like a transference of anxiety around AI, which is abstract, into physical concrete things and domains in which people are familiar. And, you know, that that to me is it's like a very boomer-oriented mindset of
Chris (19:44)
Well, we don't really understand what a transformer is. We don't know where a transformer lives. Does a transformer even live anywhere? well, transformers apparently live in data centers. Data centers are big physical things. Data centers have to go somewhere. And why on earth are they trying to turn that family farm that I drive by, you know, once a month that I think is kind of pretty into a giant hulking box hosting Skynet?
Chris (20:09)
I know how to show up and yell at my local town officials when they have meetings, right? Like that to me is right, kind of another facet of this is like no one really knew how to approach and attack or even express their concerns about AI other than the creative class, you know, around design work, around, you know, writing, around like those sort of things.
Chris (20:35)
This is like a a much more like concrete everyday set of issues that people can get their heads around and they can get worked up about. You know, like you have a playbook for this. they wanted to put Costco in on this intersection and destroy Main Street forty years ago. Well, they did put Costco in. They did destroy Main Street. You know, now now we can just kind of replay this whole thing, I think around data centers.
Aaron (21:01)
So just the American public working through some some trauma from like the first China shock.
pri (21:06)
I mean that that kinda happens with most new technologies. Yeah.
Chris (21:09)
think one of the ironic things about all of this, right, is there's an idealized form of what people want and people want jobs. They want you know industry to return to America. They, you know, they they want all of these things and yet they fail to see that this is this is what they want because it's packaged different. No one was really consulted about it. The speed at which it it came on.
Chris (21:37)
But if you take a step back and you really do kind of like look at this in another light, I mean someone has to build these data centers, someone has to operate these data centers. Like this is what new industrialization looks like. And so, you know, if you wanted to be very sneaky about it, you could ask a whole set of loaded questions in a poll, right? Around like, do you want to see your you know, your county, your region?
Chris (22:06)
become a center for growth? Do you want to see jobs outside of like service and retail return to where you live? You know, right? Like you could walk someone down through all of this and at the very end, you know, you pull the trap out and say, okay, well we're talking about data centers here. And then, you know, they can do a complete 180 because data centers are bad. But at the same time, like, you know, we had these concerns about any number of other industries. And it's just
Chris (22:35)
This really strange moment in time in which we pine for things in the past so deeply and in such a certain like fixed set of packaging that when they appear again in the present in a different form, like people want to reject it because it's new and it's strange, you know. Like we have a very, very heady collision of like accelerationism and like cultural and economic conservatism, and like a notion, you know, of
Chris (23:03)
what the world ought to be. you know, it's almost like we as a a people have frozen ourselves back in the nineties and are capable of, you know, confronting what the world is today.
pri (23:15)
But isn't what you're describing human nature? Like I feel like I felt I remember feeling this with crypto early on, like you felt just reluctance because of a lack of understanding and like it's yeah it becomes culturally unpopular, so it's easy to hate something new. Like that's like very normal. You could even say that across like new art forms. You could say like any sort of new innovation kind of feels that, no. Like I don't know if I think that's like new idea. Maybe I'm missing the nuance of what
Chris (23:39)
Yes and no. Yes and no.
pri (23:41)
you're saying.
Chris (23:41)
I guess what I'm trying to say.
pri (23:42)
Like people hated the railroads,
pri (23:43)
probably. Like if we went back to railroads, I'm sure people hated it. And then they got wrecked on it in the bond market too. I'm reading that book by the way, so that's why it's, you know, top of mind. But yeah.
Chris (23:52)
Your your deep eighteen seventy-three. Pri, what
Aaron (23:52)
I just Yeah.
Chris (23:54)
I'm trying to say
Chris (23:55)
is at the standard of living and the stakes at which people are trying to protect right now are far greater in their personal lives than when they were when these other things happened. Like who in Appalachia living in a dirt shack was against the Tennessee Valley Authority? You know? Like and so I I think there's there's slightly different
Chris (24:18)
environments in which people have more that they want to hold on to or people who've made investments in themselves. You know, if you're still paying off your college loan that you had to get to get a, you know, a job in in a professional service, you know, or in the intellectual economy. And now all these machines are coming in that could potentially upend that.
Chris (24:43)
Right. Like it's just it's a far different mindset. And that mindset is gonna breed conservatism because your instinct and it's natural and it's correct, right, is you have to protect your lifestyle. And you know, so like I think there's a an internal calculus going on where at this moment in time our standard of living and what we as a culture have as our own set of expectations has resulted in a very like deeply conservative mindset.
Chris (25:11)
you know, like New England, right? New England is a super liberal place politically, but they're very deeply conservative in the idea that they want to protect like, you know, this idea of a middle class economy and a standard of living that existed back in the nineties.
Aaron (25:31)
Yeah, it's like a loss aversion, Chris. Like people clinging to what they have, which is completely normal and a standard psychological response instead of understanding that the future may be brighter. And I I think that's been kinda reinforced, at least with like, you know, different elite colleges, etcetera, over the past twenty years. Like this kind of like anti tech deceleration type approach, which is
pri (26:02)
It doesn't help that the tech oligarchs are kind of annoying too though.
Aaron (26:06)
Yeah, it's it's the whole the whole nine yards, right? But you know, I think every time it's
pri (26:09)
Like did people hate
pri (26:10)
Rockefeller? Like people find Rockefeller cringe and annoying? Like I kind of feel like no. Like people don't like
Aaron (26:15)
They didn't
pri (26:15)
necessarily find Jamie Diamond cringe and annoying.
Aaron (26:18)
Well, 'cause they don't have these like parasocial relationships with or visibility into like these these these folks.
pri (26:22)
That's true. I guess now you do. Yeah.
Aaron (26:24)
Now you do. And that just adds like more complexity in this puzzle. But I think, you know,
pri (26:28)
Yeah, it's true.
Aaron (26:29)
ev every like big swing of things always has its detractors, just 'cause you mentioned the Tennessee Tennessee Valley Water Authority, Chris. I I just was reading a bit about
Aaron (26:43)
like Thomas Jefferson and his purchase the Louisiana purchase, which I think most people would think was good for the United States. and there was detractors even then, right? So there's always gonna be like a a group of people that thinks you know, something's horrible or, you know, misguided at the time. So it to me it's kinda
Chris (27:00)
Well, we were we
Chris (27:01)
were massively in debt at the time. We had all this other area to fill in. There was this giant frontier between us and this Louisiana purchase. And let's not forget, Aaron, Thomas Jefferson was only trying to buy the port of New Orleans. And Napoleon turned around and said, How about you take the whole damn lot?
Aaron (27:21)
Yeah.
Aaron (27:22)
Which was you know, obviously has definitely issues for like the native populations that were here and all like that, all that jazz, which is obviously important. But, you know, I think for the United States as like a nation that was a a s a seminal event or one of the seminal events, you know, probably outside of the the revolution, right? So I just think you're always gonna have detractors. I just think that the upside here is so high that the rational minds will push it forward, maybe in the way that you kind of desire.
Aaron (27:51)
described. and I do I do wonder if there is like a pivot more towards you know making this stuff more palatable. I know it didn't exactly come from AI, but I felt like that those announcements related to potentially curing parts of can of or certain cancers was
pri (28:08)
Yeah.
Aaron (28:09)
awesome. And I wonder if like more of those stories begin to show people well like, hey, well everybody you know, I know people in my family that have been impacted by by cancer.
Aaron (28:21)
you know, I'm I'm, you know, getting on with with my life and worried that that may happen to me at some point. Well now I don't have to worry about that as much. Like things are getting better. like on those frames. Like I wonder if that if those conversations keep on picking up. Or maybe it's demystifying it by creating big big button AI and you realize like it's super cool and useful but
pri (28:41)
That's what I was thinking. I was like, if more
pri (28:43)
people can get their hand on this, I think that they would really like it. actually. Yeah. The big case.
Aaron (28:47)
Well so that that's what's like interesting. I mean that that'd be
Chris (28:48)
The big cancer button. That's what we
Aaron (28:52)
amazing. I I well I was thinking, you know, like they've done these studies where they ask people like their opinions about like AI.
Aaron (28:59)
data centers and they're super negative, but if you ask about like Chat GPT, you know, or just chat, people are super positive on it. So I I think a lot of
pri (29:06)
It it's really weird.
Aaron (29:07)
this stuff is also like, you know, framing and and questions and and kind of you know maybe maybe more effort will be put into that as opposed to like the doomsday scenario marketing that I think anthropic was you know either intentionally or just because that's their their their belief like promoting over the past couple years. I feel
Aaron (29:29)
that's toned down a bit though. It it feels like would you describe it Chris? Like the the meeting of the bosses
pri (29:34)
I I think I think they have to tone it down because it's
Aaron (29:36)
kind of got Dario in check. It feels like he's been a lot a lot less
pri (29:39)
Well, also like they're
pri (29:40)
going public. Like it looks crazy to be like anti you know, AI when you're like literally about to go public. Like it just it's it's like really bad messaging.
Chris (29:49)
No one has ever accused tech of being good at messaging.
Aaron (29:52)
when we were growing up,
Chris (29:52)
it's
Aaron (29:53)
like it was I was excited, like when you'd get the internet it'd be like super exciting or like some gadget that came out, right? like people were excited about stuff. I feel like that excitement's not there to the same degree anymore. Maybe outside of like the venture capital class for for cool products. Like instant
pri (30:11)
Yeah,
pri (30:11)
pretty much.
Chris (30:13)
Yeah, well we had this like middle generation of you know, the web two and the mobile app like founder archetype, I think that just kinda distorted things and then, you know, just I think it gave way to the same way in that like politics has gotten you know, more and more extreme in terms of like who's able to to win office. I do think like your tech founder archetype, you know, has has drifted further and further out and
Chris (30:43)
Maybe it's been allowable, right? Because that entire generation like just shipped like lifestyle enhancements. That's all they did. They did nothing of real consequence. And in
Aaron (30:54)
Think it.
Chris (30:54)
that now that something consequential is like coming to market and you have got this group of founders that, you know, are just like a little too far outside of mainstream and almost alien in some ways. You know, people are looking up and going, Hold on a second, this is
Chris (31:13)
You know, the I don't know, the dissonance, the whatever it is, like this is just striking me in the wrong the wrong place.
Aaron (31:21)
Yeah. I think it's all you know, Meta's their lawsuit against Meta for all the harm purportedly caused by s social media. I mean, that's kicking off to I do wonder
pri (31:27)
The social media. Yeah. And like all the bans, like
pri (31:32)
the global bans on like social media being banned. I mean, that's that's for you know young people in certain jurisdictions, like that has to, you know, that trickles into the perception of tech technology, I'm sure. It's like all this stuff we thought was great
Aaron (31:40)
I think that factors in yeah, exactly. That was kind of my point for what I was trying to make.
pri (31:47)
is maybe not so great. And like, what about AI? Like, we think that's great. Maybe it's not going to be so great.
Aaron (31:53)
Well, I wonder
Aaron (31:54)
as we begin to like kind of re harmonize things, if it's like three things need to get primarily addressed. One is, you know, like social media it it is corrosive if you've got kids like you constantly are fighting with them about
Aaron (32:07)
being on the phone, getting off the phone, it's it's like exhausting. And like you're doing that as much as the time you may be spending on it. so I do wonder if like that gets reined in a little bit. that would be helpful for like tech across the board. I do think if we can build more housing so it's more affordable, that would also do a lot to like you've to relieve
pri (32:27)
That's huge. Yeah.
Aaron (32:29)
like political pressures, which I also think get like kind of manifested into this. and then I I do think
Aaron (32:36)
I I do think those two things would probably go a long way to allev alleviate some of the the stress that people are feeling. Ma maybe I'm wrong, maybe maybe not being right.
Chris (32:45)
Well no, I
pri (32:46)
Also calling it
Chris (32:46)
don't
pri (32:46)
a data
pri (32:47)
center. Data center just sounds gross. Like it just sounds like a bl like no one understands GPUs, CPUs, chips, like like they're just seeing like ugly brick architecture, like ugly blobs of architecture getting plopped on like their town. I don't know. Like maybe we should think about the aesthetics a little bit too.
Aaron (33:05)
Yeah. the last
Chris (33:06)
The aesthetics of data centers.
pri (33:08)
Yeah, I'm not even joking.
Aaron (33:08)
I was gonna mention one
Aaron (33:10)
one third thing, which is just like the student debt, right? Like harmonizing the cost of education with like the value that you can extract from like a liberal arts degree. I think if that got like more harmonized, I think that would go a long way to like calming down the the elites from those institutions. I think those were like the three problems.
Chris (33:27)
Yeah, there there's
Chris (33:29)
there's one easy answer for this. And it's not like easy, but our economy, you know, for the last couple of decades has really been like an economy of scarcity, in which the easy positive play of your corporation is to engage in extraction and for diminishing returns. Right? Like we're we as a consumer have d been like just under attack.
Chris (33:52)
For a good 20 years now, like from the global financial crisis on, it's just take and take and take from us. And, you know, corporations are doing great, like the stock market's at all-time highs. But if we're really entering into this age of accelerationism and this unlocking of, you know, all these new potentialities, which in economic terms are markets, right? We
Chris (34:18)
Then the mindset needs to become about abundance. I can make more money by being abundant and providing things. Right? Because for the last 20 years, and it's especially accelerated, I think, you know, since COVID, the mindset really has been I can make more money by taking things away.
pri (34:37)
Yeah.
Chris (34:38)
Like, hey look, I'm a company, I make things and A, the things I make, you make and you get a paycheck for, but B you also like these things and they're good things and they're value products. Like just you know, provide value and everyone's attitude's gonna change.
Aaron (34:54)
Yeah, I agree. And I I think the value propositions are just become w I think they were less clear in web by the end of web two, right? Like what do we get at the end of web two primarily? We got, you know, TVs in every pocket where you could rapidly flip channels.
Aaron (35:12)
But and it's like fine tuned like a slot machine to get you hooked and addicted and expand your time related to it due to like the like the innovations related to like A B testing. and so it's completely understandable that people be skeptical that like, you know, on demand intelligence, i.e. AI, would follow like a similar path, like a similar endpoint. So I d I don't know, I think I think like kind of reining in some of the like
Aaron (35:41)
like excesses of social media probably would go a long way to to solve some of the stuff. and you know, I don't know how you s how you like get
Aaron (35:49)
over educated elites comfortable with AI. Like I even have seen some like math professors like beginning to like push back on using like AI to find like math advancements. Like yeah, they're worried, right? Like and you know they're very
pri (35:58)
Like panic. Yeah. I will say
Aaron (36:03)
very bright people and like they're influential like as a group and they're panicked, right? They're panicked because they're in debt. They're panicked because their value of their degree may not be worth as much as it was advertised off the bat and now it's potentially worth even less now that there's on demand intelligence. So there's just a lot
pri (36:19)
It's true. I mean it's like a self preservation thing too. I mean, I will say though, there has been a hu I've I've noticed like the last week especially, but a huge C change on AI text and writing. People do not wanna read machine writing like at all. And I think that's just gonna be more and more like there's gonna be like the panagram, you know.
pri (36:43)
Substack put in the pantogram thing, like I I don't think people like if people find out if something was written by AI, they just immediately stop reading. And I think that will probably continue.
Aaron (36:53)
Yeah, I think that that's like a a moment in time. I I don't see why you can't
pri (36:58)
I I do
Aaron (36:59)
improve the system such that a like those types of checks are are not very useful.
Aaron (37:06)
y you know, so I I don't know, I just feel like there's nothing wrong with using these types of systems to develop a a first draft. And if you use these types of systems to do like any form of long form writing, it's not like you get anything that serviceable like on the first swipe. Like it's a dance back and forth with it. It's a lot like software development. Like I d this like notion that everything is like one shotted is is just kind of like great for social media clicks but not doesn't really like graft onto how
Aaron (37:36)
At least I under at least how I use these things. maybe that changes over time per I think that's like another ex expression of the anxiety.
pri (37:44)
Yeah. yeah, there's definitely like a lot I don't know if you guys follow like any of like the Taylor's stuff, but she like talks about how she uses AI tools and stuff and her number of followers have dropped. Like the comments around her posts are like really aggressive. They're like, I can't like I used to like you. You're like it's like crazy. It's worth just going on her Instagram or something and like seeing how what people are commenting. It's like pretty aggressive. people hate this stuff. And I get why.
Aaron (38:11)
Do you think that do
Aaron (38:11)
you think that's bots
pri (38:12)
But
Aaron (38:12)
or do think that's real?
pri (38:13)
no, I think it's real. I mean she's losing followers, like
Aaron (38:17)
But like how many?
pri (38:18)
I think she like wrote one post and like lost a couple hundred or something.
pri (38:23)
So anyways, I mean it's not a big deal. It's just like it's it's it's definitely like polarizing.
pri (38:29)
I also just think like you can hate it, but these people are still using it. Like I what I thought was kind of amusing is like Rokana is writing his tweets using AI. Like all the panagrams were showing that his his repries and tweets were AI generated, but he's like talking about, you know, not wanting data centers and has been pretty anti tech. It's just like the irony of that is is cannot be missed.
Aaron (38:52)
Yeah. I'm I'm kinda looking for like where what are like the levers that resolve a lot of these types of conflicts? 'Cause I feel like they they will be resolved. So it's like what what's the pathway to get to like a like the right answer? 'Cause eventually we'll get to the the right answer here. Like even in crypto, yes it took a decade, but we're finally getting to like the right answers. So like what
Chris (39:13)
Yeah, Aaron, you're
Chris (39:14)
gonna you're gonna hate the answer because it's time. And no and no one likes to
pri (39:17)
Yeah.
Chris (39:18)
hear that.
Aaron (39:19)
You know, and and maybe maybe actually this these like frictions are what, you know, get this technology to diffuse against s or across society like in a healthy way. So that it can, you know, actually like improve things.
pri (39:34)
Yeah, like if
pri (39:35)
we went for a full accelerationist, like the vision of Sam and Dario and Elon, like that's also a little terrifying too. Like I don't know if I fully want that that they're it you know, particular vision diffuse into society super quickly. Like they're a little weird. So I mean, you have to be like it's probably good that there's like a little bit of friction, but I think it it to the point made earlier, I think, by Chris too, or maybe Aaron, it's just like it almost doesn't matter like
pri (40:03)
this stuff is probably gonna diffuse anyway. Like people can stop it, but it's it's like it's too imp it's just too important. Like I I don't think that there's gonna be like people will protest, but even if politicians are like, yeah no, you know, we don't support this, like in inevitably like it it just gonna ha it has way more leverage than the other side, I think. so it almost doesn't matter not to be like a nihilist.
Chris (40:31)
They believe in nothing, Prie.
Aaron (40:33)
Who believes in nothing? The
pri (40:33)
That's true. Politicians.
Chris (40:36)
No, nihilist,
Chris (40:36)
sorry. That was a big Lebowski joke that
Chris (40:39)
clearly didn't land. But there's also going to be disillusionment on the tech side as well, right? Like, what if we get RSI and we get AGI and we get the singularity and the changes that happen aren't as sleeping. You know, that like, my God, I just delivered God in a box and
Chris (41:03)
No one really cares because they're out in the burbs at their big box store shopping. Right? Like it's going to take like 'cause we've we've all spoken with people out there who are like true believers. And it really is like speaking with someone from another country, another moment in time, another like, you know, it's just it's a little hard to even if you technologically believe most of the points they're making.
Chris (41:28)
That the societal impact is actually going to be like I think that's where like the disconnect is. I actually think that AI can probably deliver 80% of the promise. And yet at the same time, I can fully believe that, you know, the whole world is is not changing in five years, you know, where there's a lot of people out there who are like, well, why would I be concerned with that problem? AI is gonna solve.
Chris (41:55)
And it's like, well, what happens when AI doesn't solve it? And then you wake up and you realize you and you've just been walking around with this like attitude of everything's magically gonna work out because of like the big the big machine god and then it doesn't, right? That's gonna require like a resetting of your expectations and it's gonna change who you are as well. Hopefully it normalizes them some and you know, we can bridge this gulf a little bit.
Aaron (42:20)
I think the the gulf will get bridged. I think we'll get there.
Aaron (42:25)
It's gonna like a bumpy ride, I feel like, t till we get there, but it feels like 'cause I think we do have RSI, right? Like the the labs are all but indicating that. Like expressly at this point. Like ha how's Groc four point s whatever seven six w what's the next version? Seven? Isn't that coming out like
pri (42:43)
No.
Aaron (42:44)
tomorrow or in the next week or so? Like after four point six got released like this week? Like I it feels like things are getting closer to like that RSI level. I guess there's maybe some definitional challenge.
Aaron (42:55)
like what's RSI. But
pri (42:57)
Yeah.
Aaron (42:57)
I I don't know. It's like it's gonna happen. So we're gonna have to deal with
pri (43:01)
I know, now that we have like harnesses that are usable by normies, I'm like, what does the end of the year look like? Like I I I actually I don't think we're far away from like four day work weeks, like literally probably like a year away from that.
Aaron (43:14)
Honestly that if AI got tied to shorter work weeks, that's why I think it's gonna be like a two day work week. Like that.
pri (43:19)
Yeah, like well I don't two day work week, that's too little.
Chris (43:22)
Sorry, are guys
Aaron (43:22)
Why?
Chris (43:23)
living in capitalism like I am?
pri (43:25)
Okay,
Aaron (43:25)
Yeah.
pri (43:26)
it's no should people are gonna do more. I I find myself doing more.
Aaron (43:28)
No, I think
Chris (43:28)
Like you're you're gonna get
Chris (43:29)
a four day work week when you get a sixty percent reduction in pay. You're gonna get a two day work week when you're gonna get a thirty percent you know, your pay reduced seventy five percent. Like y no
pri (43:40)
That's fair.
Chris (43:40)
no one gives up labor for free.
Aaron (43:43)
We did we've done in the past, Chris. Like the forty hour work week was mandated. I don't I don't know the research and maybe it's something worth researching, but like did pay go down then? I don't know if it did.
Chris (43:55)
No, it it right. Okay, so we did get these things. You guys are saying we're gonna get it in the next year, right? Like Labor
Aaron (44:03)
I th I think that year.
pri (44:04)
Hello.
Chris (44:05)
was like a multi-decade
pri (44:05)
People.
Chris (44:06)
movement, Aaron, in which we had like strikes, we had violent confrontations, we had like a whole schmorgesborg of things going on. We also had two great like two literal world wars happen during that window, right? And at the end of it
Chris (44:23)
We had the threat of Tanyanism and you know, s to some degree like what we got,
Aaron (44:29)
Yeah.
Chris (44:30)
you know, in terms of
Aaron (44:30)
The chessboard setup
Aaron (44:31)
again, Chris. It's the same chessboard, just for the social media era. Like that's the benefit of social media. I think it it surfaces up like simmering issues so that they can get addressed instead of like exploding into like a violent conflict of some sort. So maybe that's what we're wa watching and it's just not pretty. And this is kind of like the echo of a similar movement, right? Like instead of like the data centers getting burnt down, they're just a bunch of people that like ratio t like Taylor Lorenz and she loses some.
Aaron (45:00)
followers and maybe that's we get to the same endpoint which is shorter work weeks
pri (45:05)
I speaking of just I guess labor in general, I came across this article. It was like a book review of this book called like disposable workers by Paul Osterman. But basically his whole his research found that like thirty five percent of US employees are basically disposable. And by that he means like there's like no they they don't necessarily need to be at the organization. So there's no intention to keep them there. or like, you know, chance of progression in a specific
Aaron (45:35)
Yeah,
Aaron (45:35)
I saw that. That was
pri (45:35)
organization. So it's not even like it's not even
pri (45:38)
like it's like they're not like disposable present. They're just like they're just kind of flat. Like there's no advancement. It's just kind of yeah, disposal I guess is the right word. But I thought that was kind of that was way higher than I thought. I mean I'm sure we have to go into the details of like his research there, but feels pretty high.
Aaron (45:55)
Yeah, I saw that too pretty I I thought it was like
pri (45:57)
Yeah.
Aaron (45:57)
a I mean, I think you really have to dig in, like how did how did they calculate all that stuff, etcetera? But
pri (46:03)
I know. I think he really needed
pri (46:05)
to get to it, but I like kind of just read the article on it.
Aaron (46:08)
I don't know, I just look a lot of like routine tasks are gonna get easier to do, right? That's like the end point of like big button AI. as it gets like disseminated. That's gonna definitely happen in the next couple of years. hopefully that means people
Aaron (46:20)
We can get the same aggregate output from society, make people's lives better and not have to work as much. So if you did have like a four a four day work week or three day or two day, I mean it'd be wildly popular. I mean much more popular than like setting up something like like a grocery store. and I think it would change the conversation around AI like overnight, and probably is where it's gonna land at some point anyway. Might as well avoid the like massive labor strikes and
Aaron (46:50)
friction related to it to begin with.
pri (46:53)
Yeah, getting to that point's gonna take a while and probably unlikely, but yes, agreed.
Chris (46:59)
Do you think Strauss and Howe, when they were writing the fourth turning that we're now in, do you think they thought the normie harness
pri (47:03)
I thank you.
Chris (47:07)
the normie harness would be the accessory of the fourth turning?
pri (47:10)
I I bet I beat some port of that part of that. I think once you once you realize we're in the fourth turning and you zoom out and you're like we're in a transition period and w the world's gonna probably look different around like let's call it twenty thirty two and it's gonna stabilize, then yeah, I think are people are normies gonna have harnesses in twenty thirty two? Probably.
Aaron (47:29)
Wait, is that
Aaron (47:30)
is that when things stabilize? Is that what they project projected? okay.
pri (47:32)
No, I I I made that date date up. I think it's probably
pri (47:35)
like twenty thirty to twenty thirty two though.
Aaron (47:37)
I still love people calling the fourth turning astrology for for like tech tech dorques. So I Yeah. Well
pri (47:44)
is do people say that?
Chris (47:45)
Astrology for men. It's
Chris (47:48)
well, I mean, think about it this way. If we like had gotten on board with the fourth turning as instead of saying like Stripe in their letter, what we believe we're in the singularity now, and everyone's like, my god,
pri (47:58)
Yeah.
Chris (47:59)
Stripe said we're in the singularity, you know, it's like, okay, well, Rick Hurtswell scares the shit out of most normies. Like, the fourth turning is heroic. It's relatable.
Chris (48:12)
it draws deeply on our shared cultural history and shows our evolution and progression as a people, right? It's an incredibly grounding and relatable, like, you know, abstract manifesto to to kind of go towards.
pri (48:26)
I agree. Actually I haven't read the striped letter
pri (48:28)
thing yet, but people were like, Wow, they said that. They really did say that.
Aaron (48:32)
I I mean,
Aaron (48:33)
it feels like we are. Yeah, I don't know if you need to read all the way.
Chris (48:34)
Life's too short for you. Life's too short to read letters from companies,
Chris (48:38)
VCs.
pri (48:39)
I did read the Josh
pri (48:40)
I did read the Josh Kushner letter though, I'll say.
Chris (48:43)
I bought the Lakers
Aaron (48:44)
I didn't do that.
Chris (48:44)
because they were hunting a fraudster. What was the letter?
Aaron (48:48)
Yeah, what the letter sign?
Chris (48:49)
Which Krishna? Which letter?
pri (48:51)
Yeah, yeah, fair enough. no, it was Josh Kushner, it was like his letter to LPs, I think, because obviously they've raised a ton, so I think he wanted to like yeah, you guys know, like as these funds get bigger, you know, there becomes there's just like a risk of them being able to like deploy as effectively and like operate as effectively. So I think he wanted to come out and address a lot of that. And I mean he did so in a nice way. It was mostly just like
pri (49:19)
Talking about the unique opportunity of where we are in the world with AI, which I like largely agreed with. And you know, he talks a little bit about like them getting into sports and then he said some other good things too. I'm like I had it at the beginning of of what what I was gonna say and then I went on this like diatribe and I can't remember, but can't remember anything I read.
pri (49:41)
But it was it was it was basically just talking about the like unique moment that we're in and like he's confident he he basically is raising a lot because of the unique moment that we're in. blah blah blah, same old
Aaron (49:51)
That some makes a lot of sense.
Aaron (49:53)
Yeah, same old stuff. I do think the Stripe acquisition of Open Router was interesting and I still don't fully understand it, like why like the payment layer wants like the AI router of some sort. Like I I know open router is like a like has done a nice job. It's like becoming increasingly important over the past couple of years. Like that routing layer
Aaron (50:15)
makes sense that there could be some value capture there. I just don't see why you'd want to append that to like a like a a payment processor.
Aaron (50:22)
To make it easier to like pay for the
pri (50:23)
We actually we
pri (50:23)
actually talked about it a little bit actually on the Aiden Scout Scout call. And I mean a bunch of people were saying that they're just gonna try to an integrate MPP, like the Stripes X four two into it. 'cause like they have the tempo thing and it's really about like maybe like agentic payments. and I think there was like a Stripe letter to investors explaining the acquisition of open router. I haven't read it yet, but I'll send it to you guys.
pri (50:49)
But i it's more or less like getting to this idea. Maybe they do want to have some AI exposure. Like they're not gonna be building their own models, but it's probably good to to have like some level of I mean, they are like the financial rails of of everything and like including everything on the internet. And they wanna be of digital payments and like between that and PayPal.
pri (51:12)
And if we think payments are gonna get more agentic, like it makes sense that they would want a router for that.
Aaron (51:17)
Yeah, it seems like it makes more sense for I guess the models can't rip the the like hyperscaled models can't really buy that type of stuff. But it would make more sense for like a Google or I guess Google has model maybe like Cloudflare, like one of the cloud providers to have that. It feels more like Cloud Infra to me than like payment infra. I think maybe that's the tension I have in my mind.
pri (51:37)
I'm not sure. I'm kinda bullish on Stripe though. If you had to guess when they're gonna go public, what would you think?
Aaron (51:44)
I would have thought a couple of years ago. So like your
pri (51:46)
I know. I mean
Aaron (51:47)
your guess is as good as mine at this point.
pri (51:49)
Yeah.
Aaron (51:50)
They're not gonna go public pre, they're gonna it release the tempo token and that that will be its
pri (51:54)
That's true.
Aaron (51:55)
public exposure. I mean that's not I'm saying that slightly tongue in cheek, but I I do wonder if maybe that's their like a better approach for them. They have like some
pri (52:03)
Yeah.
Aaron (52:04)
like private they're like a private company for governance and all these other points and then there's like some public exposure that's available via tempo.
pri (52:11)
I don't know, I think stripe is too big to take
pri (52:13)
that kind of risk on.
Aaron (52:15)
In terms of the size, is it bigger than Fidelity?
pri (52:15)
But yeah.
Aaron (52:17)
Isn't Fidelity one of the largest private like organizations?
pri (52:21)
stripe let's see. much is stripe worth?
Aaron (52:26)
mean it's a lot, but I'd imagine Fidel would be worth a lot too.
Aaron (52:29)
I mean, you could you could see just 'cause they you know, the the Colson twins seem to have such a unique perspective that they may want the flexibility to Yeah, so like
pri (52:39)
Fidelity's worth a lot more. Wait, hold on.
Aaron (52:42)
I I think it's it's feasible for them to stay private for quite quite some time.
pri (52:47)
Yeah. Hm, okay.
Aaron (52:48)
I just don't know what their
Aaron (52:49)
their investors want, like they have to somehow satisfy them.
pri (52:52)
Yeah.
Aaron (52:53)
they
Aaron (52:53)
maybe they buy them out over time, you know, at a multiple.
pri (52:55)
It's probably not a bad idea
pri (52:56)
for them, like if there is a crypto bull run to like kind of go public during that. Especially as like tempo and stuff gets bigger.
Aaron (53:04)
Well, it feels like that's happening, right? Like you know, maybe there's a pullback like like Chris said before, but it feels like it feels like things are moving again in crypto. which is exciting.
pri (53:13)
XRP is up forty percent.
Aaron (53:15)
Great. didn't even notice that.
pri (53:18)
I
pri (53:18)
just did. I went to look. I was like, God damn it.
Aaron (53:21)
Yeah. I mean to me I just hope that and I saw like DC investor and some other folks saying this, like that we finally get like the useful applications. Like I'd I really would love to see like some applied cryptography like and
Aaron (53:35)
being used with blockchains or you know, really like building out like the useful tech part of it, like the truth machine parts of it, the shared state parts of it, and much less like the gambling side. Like some of the early stuff that we're seeing come back, it still feels like a little too gambly for me to be s like sustainable. I want like sustainable crypto.
pri (53:53)
Yeah.
pri (53:54)
Me too. I don't though I don't think I have like the mental bandwidth for unsustainable crypto anymore. Like I'm just kinda like I like know enough now where I'm like I'm not investing the time.
Aaron (54:04)
Yeah, I c I can see that. And I think you're seeing some people like
pri (54:06)
Just like there's too much other stuff.
Aaron (54:07)
pushing back on that, you know, like you know, some people are like, Well that's really all this technology's good for and I I just think that that's really forgetting like a long
pri (54:15)
I don't think that's true.
Aaron (54:16)
history of like the stuff that we can begin to build, you know, for financial markets, for agentic markets, you know, there's a lot of useful technology. And you know, weirdly I feel like if if the move is more towards agents, some of the usability questions around crypto like actually become easier.
Aaron (54:34)
Right? Like the agent's not gonna care if it needs to like do three things to like sign a transaction the way like me or you may care about that. And
pri (54:42)
Yeah.
Aaron (54:42)
and maybe they could even have better like, you know, controls in place to like verify the complicated transactional information you need to like avoid like, you know, all the different attacks that hackers and other folks you know, have. So I I I do wonder if like
Aaron (55:00)
If we start seeing more useful stuff out of crypto, feels like we should be.
pri (55:04)
I'm waiting. Waiting with bated breath.
Aaron (55:07)
Well maybe we don't need to wait anymore. Which is great. Yeah.
pri (55:07)
Haven't seen it. Yeah.
pri (55:09)
Yeah.
Chris (55:09)
Let's end
Chris (55:10)
with with this pre. I want you to find your MetaMask seed phrase, I message it to instinct and let us know where you're at next week.
Aaron (55:17)
Yeah.
pri (55:17)
Yeah. Like
pri (55:18)
a maybe I mean honestly
Aaron (55:21)
Good point, Chris. Good point.
pri (55:23)
it's not a bad idea though if I gave it like my s gave it a seed phrase of just like a random wallet and like gave it, I don't know, like point to ETH and I'm just like, Hey hey, instincts like go crazy with it and like see what happens.
Chris (55:36)
You should totally do this with Robin Hood Chain. You should be like, hey, I miss stonk brokers, but I'm so bullish on Robinhood Chain. Here's my seed phrase. It's got 0.5 ETH in it. Let's get to 50.
pri (55:49)
Yeah, why not? You can do it. Make no mistakes.
Chris (55:52)
Make no mistakes.
pri (55:56)
where what how much are our song poker is actually?
Aaron (55:58)
I just checked 6.6 ETH, so pull back a little bit. Yeah,
pri (56:01)
Ooh, fall from grace. Yeah.
Aaron (56:03)
I mean that was inevitable, right? but st still impressive
pri (56:05)
Yeah. Is
Aaron (56:08)
at
pri (56:10)
Crypto punks are pretty flat, but it's been like two days of a bulk.
Aaron (56:12)
Yeah, I don't think I don't think
Aaron (56:14)
there's been like enough price movement for like those
pri (56:16)
No, you
pri (56:17)
need like a sustained bowl run for that kind of thing.
Aaron (56:19)
Yeah, I would think so. But I think, you know, like having better rules is good. I think it takes a lot of pressure off of some of the systemic risks in Bitcoin, right, with Sailor. If if there's a a bit a bit more movement when it comes to the Bitcoin price. So I don't
Aaron (56:38)
I I th I just think like we could get set up for more sustained bits.
pri (56:45)
Fair enough.
pri (56:46)
Hey everyone, it's Net Society. It's me, Aaron, Chris today talking all things tech, AI, crypto culture, and more. just as a quick reminder, these thoughts and opinion are our own and not of our employer, and none of this is financial advice.