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A tragic argument in golf right now is whether the game needs to get smaller. Designer Sam Beckman has a different answer: educate.
In this episode of The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf, host Matt Considine and co-host Dr. Kevin Moore (a.k.a. "The Professor") sit down with Samuel Beckman (owner and designer behind Emergency 9 Golf) to talk about building golf courses that clubs can actually afford to keep — and about the high school coaching job that turned out to fill the void he missed from leading large teams in corporate America.
The conversation dives into:
- Why Sam came in at roughly half the master planning fee at Ridgeway, on purpose, and what "any budget" really costs the person who says it
- North Hills, where the greens had shrunk from six thousand square feet to three thousand, and every one of them is being rebuilt — from a single pin position to as many as sixteen
- The tee boxes at Port Huron that Matt couldn't stop noticing, and why Scotland taught Sam that you play through a golf course rather than over it
- Glen Flora's restoration: two bunkers a year, built in-house with a Kubota front loader straight through COVID, and a membership that went from 160 to 275
- Why the superintendent is a co-author on every project, and the day one of them answered a steep bunker face with "we're gonna buy robots"
- Twenty-nine girls on the Lake Forest team, a Coaches Cup played for an old brass flower vase, and the freshman's video that got Sam through a bad day
Connect with our guests
⛳ Samuel Beckman — https://www.emergency9golf.com — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/emergency9golf | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emergency9golf/ | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samuel-beckman-emergency9golf/
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💼 Inglewood: https://www.ingw.com/
Join the NewClub community
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💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/newclub
Listen to The Bag Drop
🎧 Online: https://thebagdrop.transistor.fm/
Connect with Matt & The Professor
🎙️ Matt Considine — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/consequential85 | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/consequence18/ | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-considine-103bb21/
📚 Dr. Kevin Moore ("The Professor") — 🐦 X/Twitter: https://x.com/kevcmoore | 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kevcmoore | 💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-moore-177b30b3/
🗣️Contribute to the show! — 📧 email: thebagdrop@newclub.golf
Chapters
00:00 Educate the game, don't shrink it
00:20 Welcome to The Bag Drop
00:32 Post-trip depression and the two Kevins
02:23 Today's guest: Sam Beckman, a.k.a. The Mule
04:39 The Port Huron tee boxes Matt couldn't stop noticing
05:37 A shout-out to Andrew Bailey's Mid-Am win
06:33 The Professor's teaching: who actually makes America's beef
08:37 Ad read: Inglewood Associates
10:29 Twenty-nine girls, and a 59 at sectionals
14:43 How an architect ended up coaching high school golf
16:16 Coaching like a caddie, not an architect
18:17 "I hate your bunkers": hosting conference at Glen Flora
19:36 Ireland and Scotland, with Dad along for the ride
22:31 Lahinch in the snow, and going back anyway
25:57 Carnoustie isn't pretty, and that's the point
28:23 You don't play over a golf course, you play through it
30:41 Twenty feet up to every tee, and what it costs your legs
32:35 Port Huron's master plan is written into the bylaws
35:16 North Hills: the greens that lost half their size
38:27 From one pin position to sixteen
40:39 The superintendent is a co-author
44:18 No offense, Bob, but you're a dentist
45:58 Stress-testing "any budget"
47:27 Glen Flora: a Kubota, a pandemic, and two bunkers a year
51:05 Ridgeway: half the fee, and crews brought in as needed
53:20 Golf needs to be affordable — pick the model that fits
55:02 Waste not, want not: what David Savic taught him
56:46 Nationwide wasn't a bad fit
59:54 What he actually missed: building people
1:02:48 The pub outside London that restarted everything
1:05:04 Why Surrey should be your first trip, not your third
1:07:11 Huntercombe and Ridgeway: weird in the coolest way
1:09:44 Does Wisconsin need to chill out? "Double down."
1:12:39 The Coaches Cup and a brass flower vase
1:16:46 Nineteen seniors at a school of twelve hundred
1:19:32 Golf's quiet shortage: coaches
1:20:52 Smile when they walk in the door
1:22:36 Thanks, Sam — and Inglewood
Creators and Guests
Host
Matt Considine
Founder of NewClub and our resident feel player. Matt’s junior golf career led him to the University of Akron where he met our co-host. During his junior year, Matt Studied abroad in Ireland and discovered golf societies. Subsequent trips to Scotland fed his passion for the history, ideals, and culture of accessible, affordable, and sustainable golf, a concept he would later bring to the U.S. with NewClub. Known for his interviewing style, quick wit, and compelling storytelling, Matt brings thoughtful, reflective conversations to The Bag Drop. His professional journey before NewClub included multiple leadership positions in growth-stage startups, where he managed teams responsible for more than $250 million in revenue. Matt actively gives back to the game as a Board Member of the First Tee of Akron and past chair of the Evans Scholar Foundation. Proudly based in his hometown of Akron, Ohio, Matt finds inspiration in family life with his wife, their three children, and their golf dog, Gypsy.
Host
The Professor
NewClub's Chief Ambassador and every golf sicko's favorite educator. Kevin is a thoughtful and deeply curious host. His studied, constructivist approach adds intellectual enrichment and balance to the show. As a professor of Math Education at the University of Georgia, Kevin's background in applied mathematics and cognitive psychology uniquely informs his insights on golf strategy and performance. Originally from Ohio, Kevin was a Division I collegiate golfer at the University of Akron, where his passion for understanding mathematical thinking began. After earning his doctorate from Arizona State University, he combined his analytical expertise with his love for golf by co-founding Golf Blueprint, an organization aimed at helping golfers optimize their games through data-driven strategies. Kevin enjoys balancing deep philosophical discussions with simple pleasures, such as indulging his sweet tooth, cheering on college football, and spending relaxed evenings with his friends, his wife, and their beloved dog, Nole.
What is The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf?
Deeply researched audio documentaries that tell the definitive stories behind golf's greatest clubs + weekly conversations with the characters and communities shaping golf today.
Samuel Beckman (00:00)
it's important to me make golf as affordable as we possibly can. I've heard a lot of people say shrink the game, this and that. It's like, well, like, how about educate the game? Educate those who can't, who are doing stupid things out there. I'd rather you educate them than just try to shrink it
Matt Considine (00:20)
Welcome
to The Bag Drop Untold Stories in Golf. I'm your host, Matt Considine here with our co-host, the Professor Solancia. Good morning, Professor.
The Professor (00:32)
Tell what man, I am first world problems, post trip, depression. Just we're in a we're in a lull. the combination of the travel stress and then just I don't know, when you get back from a trip I just settle in and just just depressed.
Matt Considine (00:45)
You know,
this is a fun run of these pods. I was actually listening to one of our episodes because we mixed up the order of how we wanted to release a couple here this fall. And it was the one right before you left for Scotland. your voice sounded much more chipper, Professor, than it
The Professor (00:59)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (01:00)
does this morning. I gotta be honest. Pre-trip, post-trip, two, two very different Kevins.
The Professor (01:06)
Yeah, I mean I think yeah. Well, and I'm tired, so apologies to the audience. If I'm not if I don't have all the energy today, I'll try to bring it up. Got a little workout this in this morning to get some endorphins going. But I gotta ask you, like, man, sometimes when I'm on vacation
Do you ever really have like a mid vacation depression? Like I was two, three days into the most recent trip, woke up, you know, got out to the golf course. and I say it's vacation, I'm I'm doing some research, you know, during the these trips, but it's one of those like I feel worthless. Like I'm three days in and I'm like I should I should be working, I shouldn't be doing this. Do you ever get that in your travels?
Matt Considine (01:40)
I think yes, definitely. a a little bit of is it you definitely have to work a little bit to separate, you know, maybe more is is what I experienced, but also it could be an indication you've had a little too much vacation. Like,
The Professor (01:53)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (01:54)
like I think humans are meant to to work and have, you know, the circadian rhythm of
of life with work and and a routine. So may maybe your body and and your head are just telling you, Yeah, we need a little more routine.
The Professor (02:07)
Yeah, I'm definitely I on this trip I said that like the third day in I'm like, but I got some real big anxiety today. I'm like, I'm just a worker. I need to work and
Matt Considine (02:15)
You are.
The Professor (02:15)
you know, it's like two days in, haven't done, you know, any work on this particular trip and I'm like three days, I'm like, I I gotta do some work at some point today.
Matt Considine (02:23)
Well, and and you know, I'm texting ya, bugging you with things for the show. I'm sure there's some stuff you know, that George is doing the same. but you know, there's speaking of work, the guy that we're having on the show today is no stranger to work. we've Samuel Beckman is coming on the show. We've talked about having Sam on for a while. He's become a friend of ours, a new club member. He's got the nickname The Mule. so I don't know if that's why you're bringing up
work, but I'm I'm sure there's a story to how he ended up with the mule, which has to have something to do with work ethic because I've seen the guy in action and he certainly isn't as scared of of a little sweat and and putting in elbow grease to get the job done. But I'm I'm really excited to have Sam on. There's there's a bunch of different ways the sh the the conversation could go today, but but we'll see where where we do and and and it'll be a fun one.
The Professor (03:12)
Yeah, I'm looking for this. I know you've talked about Sam a bunch, so it's fun to finally get him on here and for me to get to know him a little bit too. I believe he might be a fellow Buckeye, maybe, fan. So maybe we'll get into that a
little bit too.
Matt Considine (03:23)
Yeah, yeah. he's owner of Emergency Nine Golf. I should probably tell you what he does for a living. So he's the owner and designer there. we got to know him, or I got to know him from his work at Glen Flora on the north shore or north north of Chicago, near the course. Awesome hidden gem. I know like I I rarely throw around that term, but that
is a place I always classify as it because you just don't hear it that often. And it's such a great golf course, professor. It's so fun. And getting better because Sam and the superintendent there have really made it a press a passion project to improve that place and and do it kind of over time. And and it's every time I've been back, I see something cool that wasn't there before or a little feature or a little kicker or something. And so he he he's just
Really a a guy that loves the game of golf. He spent a ton of time in golf construction. He was in corporate America for a while. I'll probably have some questions about that transition in and out of corporate America. he lived outside London. He studied the courses in Ireland and Scotland. So just just one of those shows where we got a bunch of d directions we can take it.
The Professor (04:28)
Yeah, it really does seem that Glenflora project could be a great example for so many other clubs out there that, you know, if you set your mind to something and let it occur over time, you can improve in significant ways.
Matt Considine (04:39)
Yeah, and I, you know, it sometimes we we think about golf course architecture and grand grandeur, right? The the views and the distinct changes that happen when when places reopen. But I was actually at one of his places, Port Huron in Detroit last week. was there very briefly, just a quick meeting. But the thing I noticed, and I'm gonna ask today is the tea boxes. You know, that there there was definitely, I'm guessing this is one of those old, I think it was an Allison.
old courses that that had raised tea boxes in whatever decade everybody wanted to have a view of the hole and but th they look like they just they they flattened them and I've I've never asked anybody on our show like w what it takes to do that. I was thinking drainage. I was thinking, you know,
The Professor (05:20)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (05:20)
but but I was thinking walkability first and foremost, you know, just rolling right to the T. so I I had little little things like that that that I'd love to chat about today. but first
What do got for us, professor? Any teachings of the week? You've been on vacation, you probably your your brain needs this more than ours.
The Professor (05:37)
I I have been. before we jump down real quick, you know, not quite timely when this releases, but I do want to give a shout out to Andrew Bailey on Win in the Midam, friend of ours, Ohio boy. so first congratulations to Andrew whenever this releases for you know, he's been working hard. I met him in two thousand eighteen and I know he had just started working hard at, you know, grinding towards accomplishing this. So good job, Andrew.
Matt Considine (05:58)
A B, it it was, man. I was smiling ear to ear watching that. just boy is is he not just the way he competes, but the way he carries himself and being from, you know, where you and I come from, he he just represents us so well. So yeah, congrats, A B. Was texting with him this morning and hopefully that that could be a booking here going into the fall. That'd be nice to chat
The Professor (06:17)
Well I
Matt Considine (06:18)
with with him about his mid am rise.
The Professor (06:22)
You if he's got the time for us, I don't know. He's pretty big leagues now, so but we'll
Matt Considine (06:25)
He really is. The the press junket and
the media craze are are maybe gonna be tough to fight with, but but that's gets with you're t you're teaching for us.
The Professor (06:33)
Yeah. S
so on this vacation we ate a lot of a lot of beef. Way way too much beef. I'm surprised I don't have gout. I'm sure a few of us do have gout by the end of this trip. And so
Matt Considine (06:44)
The disease of kings, as my roommate used to say.
The Professor (06:47)
yeah. anyways, who do you think produces the most beef for consumption by weight in the United States? If we're going by state, you know, if you start naming off some states, w who produces the most by weight?
Matt Considine (06:59)
Mm,
I'm gonna go with boy, I'm I I there's like some obvious choices, but I'm gonna I wanna say I'll go with Wisconsin.
The Professor (07:10)
not even I don't even think that's in the top ten. You're going for the curveball
Matt Considine (07:12)
Get out of here.
The Professor (07:13)
answer. It's going with the obvious one. What do you an obvious one's gonna treat you well here?
Matt Considine (07:16)
I
thought that was kinda obvious. South Dakota?
The Professor (07:19)
No, they are up there at one, two, three, four, five. They're like seven. Seventh, I think.
Matt Considine (07:22)
Yeah, I know there's a bunch of all right, Illinois?
The Professor (07:27)
No.
Matt Considine (07:29)
Wow. All right. Indiana? Ohio? It's
The Professor (07:32)
No. No.
Matt Considine (07:35)
gotta be Midwest. What the heck is going on? This is crazy.
The Professor (07:37)
Man,
you gotta work on your your your industry in the United States here. Texas Texas man. Texas almost
Matt Considine (07:43)
Texas longhorns.
The Professor (07:45)
almost six billion pounds in in a year. That's about fourteen billion dollars worth of beef. then we go to Nebraska, which is where my Yeah. We
Matt Considine (07:51)
That's a lot of dead animals, Texas. Congratulations.
The Professor (07:54)
go to Nebraska, which is where my vacation was, five point eight two billion pounds. Kansas comes in at third. That's pr
Four point eight one billion. Here's a surprise one. California comes in at fourth at two point four two billion pounds. Now you get in Iowa, Oklahoma, s yeah,
Matt Considine (08:08)
Grass fed, baby. Grass fed wagoo.
The Professor (08:11)
South Dakota, Colorado. So all up through that, Texas, all the way up to the Dakotas. real quick countries. Brazil's actually number one, US number two. yeah,
Matt Considine (08:20)
I knew Brazil was up there, yeah.
The Professor (08:22)
China's up there, EU there. We wanna get into beef eating though, Uruguay and Argentina.
Which is no surprising fact there. And that's about a a hundred ten pounds per person annually. So a person in Argentina eats about a third of beef a third pound of beef per day on the year.
Matt Considine (08:37)
Man, I wonder what their inflammation's like. You know, I I have a cheeseburger now in my 40s, and I'm like, my gosh, I need to lay down. that's that's that's a good one. You got me. I'm learning. I'm learning with our audience. this episode of The Bag Drop Professor is brought to you by our newest partner, Inglewood Associates.
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You can start the conversation with them over at ingw.com. If you need help with that one, they gave me a trick. It's I needgoodwiskey.com. They're all big fans of Scottish golf. ingw.com and tell them that Matt and the professor sent you. All
right, professor. Let's get on to our show.
Samuel Beckman, welcome
to the bag drop
Samuel Beckman (10:27)
In front of the man.
Matt Considine (10:29)
I'm gonna start with I had no idea you're a high school golf coach. You're coaching the the Ladies Lake Forest golf team. how's the season going? We're in like the kind of the the heart of of of what playoffs, I guess you call it, or sectionals, districts, states. What how how things going for the girls?
Samuel Beckman (10:45)
So we just sectionals were yesterday. so it goes conference and then regionals, sectionals and then states. you know, it's it's been a year a little bit down in our, you know, level from where we normally are year over year, but just a little bit younger, younger class. So it's you know, I've got twenty nine girls, so I've got a ton of players on my team, which is awesome. It's awesome for the game.
That piece of it makes me the envy of a lot of a lot of teams. But yeah, we had sectionals. We had two girls get through to sectionals. neither one are gonna go to states, but again, we've got a junior and a sophomore in there, so they're gaining some experience. But I mean, I'll tell you the the level of golf in least in my section in in Illinois is unreal. Reese Wallace from Barrington shot a 59 yesterday with not a single
The Professor (11:35)
Ooh.
Samuel Beckman (11:35)
bogey on the card.
Matt Considine (11:39)
What I'm sorry, 59 in high school golf is insane to me. What we're
Samuel Beckman (11:37)
And if and if you think that's fifty-nine, it's
The Professor (11:37)
Whoa.
Matt Considine (11:43)
at? What what was the course?
Samuel Beckman (11:44)
we played Randall Oakes yesterday. Yep.
Matt Considine (11:46)
Randall Oaks, okay.
Samuel Beckman (11:48)
And so it's not really I mean, it's it's not an easy golf course. And to make it even better, if you go back to regionals, because she was in our region, she shot a twenty-nine in her back nine of
The Professor (11:58)
Whoa.
Samuel Beckman (11:59)
regionals. So she I don't I don't think she's had a bogey in the card till maybe
like the
Fifth hole that she played at Regionals. I mean, that kid just she just ate it up and she's not the only one. Madeline Gutierrez, I can't remember where Madeline's at, but she shot one, she had 64 in the round and she had one bogey. I mean, I mean, it's Stevenson, Barrington, Fremd. I mean, Barrington was two eighty-five, Stevenson two ninety-nine, fremd three twenty-seven. I mean, it it's it's wild.
Matt Considine (12:28)
my gosh. I mean there must be something it
in in the water in in Illinois 'cause I w I saw yesterday Lester Lowe of Evanston shot a sixty in his
Samuel Beckman (12:36)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (12:37)
sectional. I think that was at Heritage Gloves or something. I mean, what what is happening to to these juniors? Like
Samuel Beckman (12:44)
I I you know what? I I they some of need to come to Lake Forest 'cause I I would love to just give I love my I love
Matt Considine (12:50)
Come on, coach, you gotta recruit.
The Professor (12:48)
Ha ha ha.
Samuel Beckman (12:52)
listen, I love my girls that and I you I've got s you know, Mercedes is my number one. She's she's an awesome young lady. She she's she's a Spaniard, she's she plays in a way that like can be in can be very envious, just a different approach from the American game. But look, she's a she's a great player. And
Yeah, but there's there's a different level between, you know, even that. I mean she you know, I think she shot like I don't know, she won the Libertyville event that was at Shepherd's Crook and I think she with like a maybe three or four over, which was awesome. But at the same time it's like I you know, that next level is it's insane. I I you know, like I said, it's it's wild to see, it's great to see, it's great for the game, it's great to see that many girls out playing and you know, I I not to like go
full circle here a little bit, but I was listening to one your podcasts. You guys were talking about you know, short courses and stuff like that and and the importance of those. And you know, at Randall Oaks they've got like two different, you know, short courses inside of their eighteen holes. And then, you know, we showed up at like nine for ten o'clock or something like that. And there were two girls who were both under the age of ten out there playing the short course. Like I don't I mean, I guess they didn't go to school. I don't know what was going on there or their sister was playing. I don't I don't really know. I didn't ask, but
It's great for the game. I I think it's awesome. And so I it's a it's a passion of mine. Been doing it for four years there and like I said, I I I hope all the girls you know, stick with it regardless of w how how good they are coming out of program. You know, it's an it's a it's a great life skill. And you and I n you know, we talk about that. We talk about, you know, I mean new club in its essence is is is part of that, getting people in the game, making it comfortable for people to play and and
I hope those girls come out of our at least out of our program feeling like, Hey, I can go play golf anywhere with anyone at any time, regardless of my skill.
The Professor (14:43)
Samuel, I gotta ask, I'm glad we started here with the the coaching. What took you into coaching? You know, you have all these other things we're gonna eventually get into, but saw a sudden four years ago, you're like, Hey, you just woke up one morning, like, I wanna coach some some girls to golf.
Samuel Beckman (14:56)
No, I actually so I actually I actually also coached girls basketball there in the winter. But so the the way I the golf team came around was I I was actually I was in the you know, coaching at the high school in basketball. I had coached a couple of girls that also played golf and you know, obviously get to know parents and families and things like that. And then they they all knew what I did. They all know like my ability on the golf course.
and and my background and all those things. And so when the coach before me decided to retire, they're they didn't really give the athletic director a choice. They're like, no, you're Sam wants it, you're gonna hire Sam. And that's kind of the transition in the golf side of it. But it definitely was, you know, whether I had a choice in doing it or not, I would have chosen to do it. I love I mean I I absolutely love doing it. And like I said, I that's that's what took me there. And yeah
Like this year it's been tough because I've got a lot of hours in the car driving up to Wisconsin for projects and then back back in time for practice. a lot of four thirty wake ups. but it's been, you know, like I said, I I love teaching the game. I love being able to bring all my playing experience, all my design experience, all my, you know, the psych you know, just dealing with your own psychology and of how the game works. I love bringing all those things to him because I do feel it it translates into into your life.
Matt Considine (16:16)
You know, Sam, I the professor and I have been around a lot of golf coaches in in our lifetime. I don't think I can name one of them that was a golf course architect. So what is your d advantage? What is the thing you're saying? Like, are are you taking topo maps to the kiddos and saying, like, all right guys, listen, like did you gotta understand the elevation here? This is gonna be a two club or or what what what what are there in your brain is there to to help win coaching?
Samuel Beckman (16:41)
All right, so I've done the topo map. They kind of look at you like you're crazy when you bring that up. and we've d we have done some some work, I think it was mostly my first two years. We did some work on like, hey, this is what the golf course plays, like, this is where we should go. We did the some classroom work on that. And it didn't quite take the way I thought it would. And so we instead what I do is I I act more like a caddy than anything else when we're out there during matches, and I
I'm a big believer in being able to work the ball both directions. So like that's something we work on with our more mature players and and working through that. And so what I bring is when we're out there, when we're talking, when we're walking around, it's like, okay, talk walk me through this shot. Tell me what you're gonna what are you gonna hit here? Where's your safe side? What's the shot shape you're trying to hit? And it's just make wanting them to think about how they're gonna play the shot and kind of engage and
then I can always tell when there's something that's false out there that architect's trying to hide or or where, you know, where's where's he trying to get you or she, depending on who who did it, where are they trying to get you? Where where's where's the challenge? And the girls don't always see that. They don't always I don't go into it and be like, I'm an architect. I know this. It's just it's things I'm trying to make them aware of and thing things I'm trying to teach them so that they can read the golf course. Cause I can't be with all of them at all times.
So it is just trying to keep teach them an appreciation. it's funny because we did host conference at Glen Flora this year. And the girls were like, You I hate your bunkers. They're so hard. And I was like, Well,
The Professor (18:15)
Ha ha ha.
Samuel Beckman (18:17)
the goal here is not to hit them in the bunkers, then it doesn't have doesn't matter, right? but yeah, so it's they gave me a little bit of grief about some of those things and and the difficulty of of that and how hard I make things sit.
at certain times, but they do have an appreciation for it and they do they start to read it and and like I said, when they can see it without me there, that's that's the moment where I can feel like I can really step back and just enjoy, watch them play and then be there for whatever resource they need me as.
Matt Considine (18:45)
Yeah. Yeah. I the the the professors actually helped me with this because when I first started getting into golf course architecture, I always kinda had the impression that like, the architect's job is to convince me to play conservative or you know, to be scared or or whatever. But there there's so much more to that. And a lot of times it's the inverse, right? That the architect's actually trying to draw you in here. But that's just like understand what that means, what the risk is, to you know, hit the driver versus the layup with an iron and
yeah, there's there's a lot that can be garnered from that, I think, when it gets down to strokes gained and and stuff like that in the competitive sense.
Samuel Beckman (19:22)
I I try to I try to stay away from giving them too much of the data because it's you know, th you can their minds are only the you know, they're like, I just wanna hit the golf shot, coach. I'm like
Matt Considine (19:32)
Yeah.
Samuel Beckman (19:33)
Yes, we'll we'll get there, don't worry. So
Matt Considine (19:36)
Yeah, yeah. My Kevin's my coach here and he he hides the data from me too. I'm forty one and I still can't comprehend most of it. I'm gonna jump to Scotland and Ireland because it's the thing that I think Sam you and I connected with when we first met on as is being young, young men over there and having really impactful experiences. I think a lot of new club members, especially in our early days, had came from from that, that they just, you know, recognized a lot of the same stuff I was recognizing over there.
But I put myself in your shoes and and you'll have to tell us because I know you are a house tape butt guy. Go bucks.
The Professor (20:08)
H.
Matt Considine (20:09)
but I think you traveled with Michigan State. Did you go there with Sparty? So tell us a little bit about those travels. And I think you did a couple, if I remember correctly. And and and here's what I'm really curious about because I was an idiot kid when I was over there. I knew nothing about golf course architecture. When I got back and fell in love with golf, I saw some cool stuff.
I didn't know why I liked it. I didn't know why I wanted to play Cork Golf Club, which was a McKenzie. I didn't know why La Hynch, you know, was just blew my mind. Like but but you were there to study it. So I wanted to know if you knew why, even then when you were 20, or did it also take you decades and future trips to kind of see like maybe there's a bunch of stuff you missed as as studying it. So I I'd love to just hear about that experience from you.
Samuel Beckman (20:51)
So my undergrad is from Ohio State. It's landscape architecture. And while I was there, you know, I I got wind of Michigan State. so let me step way back. So I started this game when I was five. And by the time I was seven, I think I knew I wanted to design golf courses. I mean, it was like it was instant. And so you know, I I more or less planned my
career my life that way, right around it. we'll we can get into some of the you know the yields or the div diversions in the roads and stuff like that, but the the forks in the road there. But yeah landscape architecture I was in there for Ohio State. I I found out about Michigan State having a hey go study in and the first one we went to was in Ireland. Go study golf course design in Ireland with through their landscape architecture program. And the first year we went with Ray Hearn. And
On top of all of that and wanting to go there and learn and do all this stuff, obviously it's it's kind of like the people who go to that are some people interested in it, some people were just there to go play Irish golf and you know, whatever. a
The Professor (21:55)
Mm.
Samuel Beckman (21:55)
little bit of a mix, but I I added the fact that my my dad went with me. So, like, you know, you look back on that those tri and actually above my corner, that's he and I you know, at in in in St. Andrews, but
Yeah, so he was with me on that trip, which is which is a whole nother like playing golf there with your with your family, whatever it is, is is a different experience than than anything else. So yeah, I was there, did it one year, we we loved it. We Mm. Yep.
Matt Considine (22:22)
And so wait, were you a col you so you're a college kid and you say,
Hey dad, I'm going with school. You want to join me? What was his response?
Samuel Beckman (22:31)
It was the other way around.
Look, my parents have always been very supportive of what either myself or my sister wanted to do. And then he was like, Yeah, like why don't let's go take a look at this, right? And so he's he that's where it kind of came through, is can't kind of came from him you know wanting to support me in in as many ways as.
As he could. And so yeah, so that's how that started. So we did the first one, we went to Ireland and was great. Other than when we played Lahinch, she was miserable because it was snowing, it was raining, it was and he was just like, I don't want to do this. Because he we were in October, so you you can get yeah, you can get dicey. It's dicey, right?
Matt Considine (23:09)
What time of year? What time of year are we talking? Yeah, you can get it can get dicey. Right, we got we got a group over there right now and it's dicey in October.
Samuel Beckman (23:20)
but we still had enough fun that we went back the next year, went to went to Scotland for the same trip. And it was it was everybody's fun, everybody's cool. and at that point, I'll be honest with you, as a kid, I was terrified of flying overseas. Just absolutely like that first trip overseas was just I it was I just hated it. I hated the flight, I hated everything, and then you know, it's you know, you don't know what you don't know at that point. But
it was great. It was a great experience and wouldn't trade it for the world. And it it just solidified the second year went with Paul Albany's. He was cause he was working with Ray at the time. so Paul did that second one. and yeah, it was it was good. It was it was it was interesting to get different perspectives that at that age on golf design, from two different guys.
Who I don't know that I share the same philosophies with today as maybe like when we were there. But I do think that taking the time going over there, studying the golf courses, understanding like just even how to route a golf course is, you know, something people don't people underestimate. And I, you know, let alone like all the underground stuff that has to happen. Like I don't want to get too technical in the butt you know, you get into the drainage and
slopes and all these things, it's like it's not as easy as just like, let's put a bunker right there or, you know, let's build a pond. I could tell you stories about people telling me things that I'm just like, I that's that's a bad idea. So, you know, and and a lot of times they it comes from a good place. They they mean well, but they don't understand like the logistics and and why we don't do certain things that that it would I like to tell people like my job as a golf course architect is eliminate bias.
That anybody in the club might have and save them from making mistakes.
The Professor (25:10)
That's a that's a good philosophy. And you're speaking to my heart there. I've always I've always found routing to be just magic what you all are able to do, right? It's one thing to as you know, a pseudo golf course architecture people to look at a hole and be like, I'd maybe do this and whatever, but to see a blank canvas and route it
I've never un understood how you I mean it's just it is truly is magic to me. I wanna circle back on you took a trip to Scotland, a trip to Ireland. I think Matt and I both get the question a lot from new club guys or other people in the golf world, you know, which one should I go to? You got to go and study both.
Did you take or what did you take away from both trips? Maybe differences across the two that you you know, picked up in Ireland, then we go to Scotland and like, Wait, I didn't see that in Ireland, that's different. so what was maybe different across the two trips?
Samuel Beckman (25:57)
I would say that generally you go to Scotland and it's flat. It's a lot more flat than people think it is, right? And you know, you go to Irish courses and like Bally Bunyan, La Hinch, like Oldhead, go go just pick one. I mean, even if you go to like well, no real Port Rush has got movement th they all have movement, right? They've got movement all over the place. and they're much more dunesy. You go to Scotland, like
Carnoostie's not a pretty golf course. Like it's not like you don't go to Carnoostie and be like, look at the view. You go to Carnoostie and like, hang on, like, like cause it's hard. so the I I think that's the one thing that and and I've heard this from people who go to Scotland. They're like, well, it's not that pretty. I'm like, well, actually, Scotland's gorgeous. Like the everything about Scotland is absolutely beautiful. But they get on the golf courses and they're thinking that they're gonna see, you know, these.
great views and all this stuff. And you see out you know stand on the first hole of St. Andrews and you look out and it's you see nothing. Like there's nothing out there. and yet it's to me one of the best T shots in the world. Cause it's just like, okay, like there's people everywhere. There's people walking everywhere. There's, you know, things happening right. There's things happening left. so I I would say that the big differences that I see and one of the big things I picked up is
How you can be just as good on a flat piece of land as you can be when you get these elevated views and and wild things happening all over the place. Either one can can result in a really, really cool experience and really fun experience. And that's not to say that there aren't flat courses in Ireland. It's not to say there's not, you know, fruit and bay. I mean it's in Scotland is, you know, there's movement all over the place. but generally speaking, like that's one of the things that I really picked up there, like
that I think most people can kinda understand and and get like without getting too much into detail.
The Professor (27:51)
All right, so now help our audience out. You know, you have flat rolling, you know, subtle links in Scotland. You've got this crazy dunesy golf in Ireland.
What do you learn from that that you can actually bring back to the United States? I think there's something like again magic that you, Sam, have that others of us wanted to be to be like, yeah, I can go play Royal County Down and like see that's cool, that's cool. But if I walk over to, you know, a piece of property here in Athens, like I I'm not gonna have anything of that. So what do you bring back from both those experiences that have maybe shaped you and what you do now?
Samuel Beckman (28:23)
Well so again, like, you know, I know in the in the intro Matt in kind of teased the the whole port Huron thing, but let from Scotland, think about Scotland and you know, you don't play over that golf course. You play through it, right? Tees are teaser low to the ground for the most part. Like you you you walk up and you just find the tee and you you kinda go. And that to me, from the Scotland standpoint is is something that I really like. I like that playing through the
Through the landscape, not over, not everything has to be elevated, not every view has to be, you know, blind shots are okay. in fact, they test you mentally more than anything else. You don't have to see the ball land. those things to me are really cool. But at the same time, you flip yourself over to to to to Ireland and you're like, okay, standing on top of a T-Vox, looking across the entire landscape, the entire golf course, and you just see golf. Like,
There are a few golf courses here that I can think like Aaron Hills has kind of got that feeling. Like when you get on the backside at like what is it, 15, coming back, looking back at the clubhouse, and it's just like this vast golf, Sand Valley, same way. Like you just stand up there, vast, just golf everywhere. And yet at times when you're on like Mammoth at Sand Valley, their tea boxes are just like right in the fairway. And and you so you can kind of see how like both those styles work.
There's not a right or the wrong. There it just there's a lot of ways to create really good golf, and there's lots of ways to be very successful at it. and there's just a matter of making sure you you unlock that on the piece of property you're on in the moment. And don't subscribe to, well, it has to be this way. Every T box has to be elevated, every every landing zone has to be visual, or vice versa. Like I don't want to see any of them. It's the experience kind of un
folds itself throughout the round. And if you can take those little things from that, I think that's a that's a big win. beyond like like I guess, you know, the stack side bunkers and, you know, rolling, you know, movements and stuff like that. Like all that stuff is kind of the obvious. But I I think little things like understanding how the golf course gets played through the landscape is one of those those key things that's really, really different out there.
Matt Considine (30:41)
So you you you you mentioned it, I brought it up in our intro. The tea boxes at Fort Huron. I I find these things, and and this kind of is is my answer to the same question around Ireland, Scotland, and the differences I've seen is, you know, Ireland was just earlier and better at pandering to the American, the broad American audience. Like
Samuel Beckman (31:00)
True.
Matt Considine (31:01)
give them a view and give them a pint and and they're gonna be happy and they're gonna spend. And I just think Scotland has this little bit of curmudgeoness about them.
That they're just like, no, we're not gonna give you those things you're asking for. But you're here to play golf, you're gonna play it this way. And I I just respect the heck out of it. And I love both places, definitely, for the golf and and other things as well. But yeah, the the the subtle things that I never would have appreciated without my travels over there is like those tea boxes at Pior Port Huron. And again, I didn't I didn't play Sam, but t for for me, the way the reason I notice them now is.
I I get done with a round where I'm carrying my bag and we're walking or you know, push cart and we're talking. And and I had this at the other course we played in in Michigan, where it was a little bit of a wet day. It's where your legs are gonna be a little more tired, but every single tea box, it's a w and it was a kind of a tea to green type a golf course or a green to tea. Every single tea box, you're marching up 20 feet, man. And it does add up on the the body, right? It's like
I want to expend that energy playing the game, not you know, getting my perfect view of the the fairway. And and so those things, you know, now register with me. And that was I pull in that parking lot. I walked around where I was meeting, and I go, Well, those are those are all really low to the ground. So tell tell me, like, is it that's a thing that you obviously bring back, but the practicality of that, what what does it take? I mean, is drainage become more of an issue for a flattened T box?
Samuel Beckman (32:35)
Well, so couple of things like on part here here on too is y you gotta understand that that project started in ninety nine or two thousand. and I you know, actually so I wasn't I so David Savik, who I started with old course design, he he came back and I mean we had put the master plan together and that club like they put that master plan in the bylaws. So like they can't change it. Like they have to
Yeah, it's very, very cool how they did this. And they're I don't know, it's cost like thirty five hundred dollars a year to belong there. It's like it's it doesn't cost anything. And it's it's a great testament of how to keep your golf course protected once you get the right thing in. And so they brought then so so David, you know, we'll we can go through my history at some point, but David and I at w are still like he's still technically a consultant for me. But he he came back when he went to Nicholas and the like one of his
agreements was that he could do Port Huron however he wanted under his name and not not under the Nicholas venue. And so he's actually the one who implemented that part of the master plan of getting those teas down and low. Now on Port Huron, you know the the thing about that, well that was always the plan, but it's also a very sandy site, right? And so drainage is much, much easier on that. Part of the reason you obviously elevate teas is make sure that water's not sitting on them. But
It at Port Huron, you know, you can you got away with it. We don't have to worry about that as much. if you well, we can get to this too. Like North Hills, which I'm working on right now, there's a little bit that that I've kind of incorporated as well. And that is the most clay-based piece of property you can find. but what we've done is we've taken a lot of the elevation out of those T's just to get everything.
To fit in the landscape the way it's supposed to. And if you have an elevated T, it's because the ground is naturally elevated. Like if you walk off the back side of the fifth green now at North Hills, it's basically a zero transition into the next T. And Shore Acres has that. Like if you think of Shore Acres, that same thing. You go off of two, two to three, right? Like there's a zero, you just walk right off the back of it. So the practicality of doing it is understanding the the site, making sure that
You know, you're not gonna have a a water table that sits there and then, you know, when when you can do it, you do it. And when you can't do it, you're making use of natural elevations to make sure that you know, the at least the tea box feels like it just is part of the landscape. It's not some additional thing that you've pushed up and just designed for the sake of height. So
The Professor (35:16)
Samuel, I just I heard a little excitement in your voice there when you brought up North Hills. Tell tell me about the project. I'm pretty ignorant on it. So, you know, talk to me like I'm a fifth grader, because I've heard it, you know, Matt's mentioned it. He sa he's mentioned that you're excited about it. I just heard it in your voice. So I think we gotta we gotta dive into that one.
Samuel Beckman (35:36)
Yeah. So it's one of two well, I guess Glenflora's technically still got active projects going on, but it's one of three active projects that I've got going on right now where we're actually getting where we're in dirt. but North Hills has been three years of planning. And it is it's a golf course right outside of Milwaukee, it's a monotomy falls. and it's just one of those golf courses that you get on the property, you're like, How is this golf course not better?
Do you know what mean? It's like
The Professor (36:05)
yeah.
Samuel Beckman (36:05)
this piece, this place is so cool. It used to host Milwaukee Opens and all this other thing. And it it got bit by the nineties golf course design bug where you get big flowery bunkers and raised tees and all of a sudden the greens went from original sizes of six thousand square feet to three thousand or thirty five hundred square feet.
And they have one pin placement on them. And it's just, I mean, you could you could write this story, you know, over tree planted, like in just about any golf course that was built in the twenties or before this has happened, right? And so it is it's it's cool. It's so cool. So we it's taken a lot of work to get to this. but we we basically went through the master plan and said, Hey, I know you wanted us to look at bunkers.
But we're gonna look at the master plan in in totality and so that we do this right. And so we got in and immediately went through old aerials and we're like, hey, you it's your your green sizes are way too small. They need to be bigger. you got one pin placement on these things. So, you know, step one was identifying that and showing how they could enlarge all the greens back to the original size. and we were gonna do this on a budget. We're gonna do this, you know.
By coring out the surrounds and all these other things. And that was the process that was gonna happen. And then, you know, they hired Matt Schaefer as their sh superintendent who Matt is just you know he so he's ca coming from Steven's point, he is awesome. He is so good at what he does.
And Matt's just like, no, no, no. If we're gonna rebuild these things, get more pin placements, do that, we're gonna rebuild all of them. So it was like, okay. Yeah, well, this was two years ago, or maybe, yeah, something like that. Maybe no, a year and a half, maybe a year and a half. He hasn't been there that long. But he's like, no, let's rebuild them all. Let's rebuild them completely and do all the bunkers and do all this stuff. And so he's he's like, no, so that's what we did. So we've, you know, ripped them all out. And so now we went from
Just doing the core outsides to making this whole thing a bigger, you know, bigger project and and redoing all the greens. And and now, you know, one of the things the members were like, Well, what's gonna happen to the greens? Are we gonna have the same, you know, slope? Like they're like, make sure it's hard. You know the number of times I've been told, make sure it's hard. It's hard. It's gonna be hard.
The Professor (38:25)
Ha ha ha ha
Samuel Beckman (38:27)
but what we did
Matt Considine (38:27)
Check.
Samuel Beckman (38:27)
on the gr what we did on the greens were we're we're basically trying to keep
them familiar with what people had before in that like they could recognize that certain greens are going to slope certain ways. But then we really kind of dove deep into like how can we how can these things go back to something that reflects the golf course and the difficulty and still give you, I mean now they probably have four to five like pin areas and within those pin areas they're going to have
another four to five pin locations in those areas. So they're going from one pin location to, you know, whatever. I not doing the math on that one, whatever that turns into 12, right? 12 to 16 different places they could place the pin. And Matt's gonna be able to dial this thing up like as difficult or as easy as he kind of wants it to be on any given day. and as fast as the greens he wants, as slow as the greens he wants. It really provides some variety to this golf course that
they'd l they really lost over, you know, a hundred years of, you know, decisions for lack of a better term. so yeah, it's it's awesome. I I'm I'm thrilled if you I mean I'm not trying to plug anything, but if you go look at my Instagram, you'll see, you know, there are greens that we have built and they have got grass on them and they are. I mean, if you walked on them, you're like, can I put this already? And the answer is no. So any members listening, no, you may not go on the greens and putt.
But it's it's cool. It's a cool project. It's got its own unique things happening. We've dealing with floodway issues and re we had to relocate one hole because, you know, we're trying to trying to stop. You can't you I I mean, again, I feel like I'm gonna bore people with telling them about, you know, floodways and why you can and cannot build in floodways and what you can do in them. But we're trying to protect the, you know, the assets, the greens, the bunkers, and trying to keep those things out of flood waters.
And in order to do that we had to move one of the holes out out of the floodway completely. which is gonna create its own cool, unique, now short drivable par four that is opened up a new piece of property that they didn't even really realize they had. So
Matt Considine (40:39)
Sam, there's so many of the examples you've already hit on today, and I knew I wanted to bring this up. because we've met a lot of people in your field, and when you talk about superintendents, it just is different to me than so many others. Like they are your co-author and and and
Samuel Beckman (40:56)
for sure.
Matt Considine (40:57)
almost like every project you do, like it like s when I hear other architects, and this is not not taking shot at anybody, I'm just talking about from conversations I've had.
It it's very rare, like they they probably have like one project where the the superintendent was like really involved in the the the design process. But you like the way it's just so secondary, every project you've said so far, like your super is fully a part of like your team almost. I'm just wondering, where does that come from? Is that you know the is it just the nature of the projects that you're kind of geared towards that that allow for that or
t tell me your your philosophy and and and is it bit built into the model that the the the super has to be really involved with you?
Samuel Beckman (41:41)
Yes to all of those. a I I'm I would say I would say I'm a little bit lucky. I mean even you talk port Port Huron, John Nowakowski who who's since retired, but you know, John was very much in in involved in that project in every step of the the the process. And you know, he's incredible. He he was he was great to work with. But like, you know, Ross Page at Glenflora, Brian DeGeez at at Ridgeway, you know, Nick Nate at at South Bend, like it it
I like them being involved in the process. I I will tell every membership from now until forever that I get to design it. I don't have to maintain it after I leave. And so if the superintendent isn't good and isn't involved, I don't mean like I don't mean bad, but like if they're not involved in this process, it's it's tough because they they have to own this as well. Cause they're the ones every day. They've got to be out there, they've got to motivate their crews, they've got to figure out how to
you know, get their guys when things aren't going well. We've got four days of rain and they've got, you know, a membership event, you know, on the weekend and those guys are out there busting their butt to do all this stuff. Like they have to have a ownership of it and feel like, no, this is I I was part of this process. I love this process. I love the design. I I know why the decisions were made. And that's an important it's an important piece. I like, you know, they're awesome. And and things are getting
There are things we can do today with since they have robot mowers and all these other things that we probably would have shied away from even a couple of years ago. But you know, even I use North's I mean Matt's like, Hey, can we make those bunker faces steeper? I was like, dude, you've got to maintain them. He's like, the robot can do it. We're gonna buy robots. And I was just like, Well, have you bought robots? He's like, No, but we're gonna buy robots. I'm like, All right, dude, let's do it.
I listen, if you want to push the design, you know, the the limits of design, let's do it, man. Let's let's go. But just as long as you're good with it, you can maintain it. the like that ultimately that's how the that's how the design holds for a longer period of time, then they're not redoing it again in ten years. Like that's a big thing to me is I don't want I don't want clubs to have to redo things in ten years. I want them to be able to like stand a little bit longer than probably even what the USGA says.
The Professor (44:01)
Samuel, I'm glad you just brought that up, this idea of this long term vision with the club. Is that in your experience, is that something you feel you bring to the club's table often, or do you see clubs also asking for that and wanting that?
Samuel Beckman (44:18)
I think it depends on I don't know how to say how much money the club has. I hate you know, but like I I think that's a I think that's a key factor in things.
I like clubs that will stick to a long term plan. I I would love to work with that because I don't love when clubs are like, well, you know, Bob is now the club president and Bob wants to do this. Well, I like no offense, Bob. What what do you do? You're a dentist. I I w I mean just because you play golf or just because you studied on stuff, like you don't fully understand that. Like I tell people like, Because I have teeth, can I go into your dental practice and like
you know, you know, drill a cavity? No. Like, I mean, it it doesn't quite, you know, it's not quite that way. So I like clubs that were are willing to stick to something for a long period of time. I mean, the hard thing about that is some of those things, you know, become annuities. And now of course, like I say that, but if I somebody calls me today and says, Hey, we we just redid our club five years ago, but we don't we want to redo it again, I'm probably not gonna say no.
Like, but I am gonna I am gonna look at the plan and try to figure out like, okay, what's what's good, what really do you need to do, and where do you need to spend money? Cause if this is just, you know, whatever pr club president doesn't like XYZ, like I don't know that that's the right solution. but at the same time, you know, it is a business. We're still running a business. So that that's an important thing too. But I I really try to be aware of people's capital improvement budgets and what they have and what they don't.
and what they can use and what they can't use. So so yes, it's ingrained in me, I guess is the long way of saying it.
Matt Considine (45:58)
that two kind of the same question, but two reasons I'm I wanna ask it from from that, 'cause you know, I I I know your your you you share my passion for accessibility to golf. You know, you mentioned the membership at Port Huron. The guys that I know that belong there, you know, they're they're average, you know, white collar guys, but th it's it they're not gonna have you in the budget for an Oakland Hills or the big clubs and
And they love the game and they love their course. And and I I just know that you share my passion for this. And so it's it's like the those costs are the answer to that as well, right? And I'm just curious, like s stress testing your your motto, because I think it says on your website, you know, any budget, any budget, you know, we'll work with. that's that's not an approach every design firm is gonna take. They're gonna turn down a lot of budgets. But does that what does that result in for you, Sam? Does it
Does it make, you know, going back to that long term plan or like a a a project like Glenflora where, you know, there's so many dollars that are now available for just this next twelve months that only can get these four things done and then we'll look at the ne does it force kind of that piecemeal approach with more clubs, perhaps? Or what else does it kind of change and and and maybe give me like an example of something that you just came in way lower than
You know, the club expected just to get some work done. 'Cause I I I kind of remember you sharing a few of those in the past.
Samuel Beckman (47:27)
So you know, Glenflora it's its own animal. So I it you know, it's my home course too, so I'm a member there as well. but so Glen Flora, I you know I happen to know the owner. I well, I I got I was brought in as a member somebody brought me in as a member and just was like, Hey, this is a great place. I was at Lake Bluff Golf Club and you know, whatever. They changed management and they had like carts out on a day that it was like three inches of rain. I was like, I can't do this anymore. The place is rutted up. I I just can't.
and we've been members and when we lived in England and and in Ohio of and I grew up, you know, grew up in Detroit and a member at a club there. so you know, I I told my wife, I'm like, I just can't, I I we I've tried this, like we gotta we gotta go back to a club. So I go there and I it was it was awesome. I I loved the place, it had it had a lot of good bones to it. so I joined and then you know, probably like that following May, I was playing I got paired up with the owner.
And you know, we're just talking. We're just around golf, and he's just like, Hey, well, what do you do? And I told him, and he's just like, Well, what would you do here? I was just like, Well, I mean, we can start talking about that. And, you know, I gave him I gave him friends and family discount for sure. and and this is this is right before COVID, and like I we're all set. And he's like, Well, we're gonna do in the house. Ross, our our superintendent, Ross Page is a, you know, former shaper.
We they bought a Kubota front loader and they're like, we're just gonna go do this. I'm like, this is awesome. Let's do it. This is fun. Like, we'll do a couple bunkers every year. And so he so anyway, that's that's the story how we did that. And COVID happened. I was like, there's no way we're gonna do this. Like, there's no way this guy, we have 160 members, COVID hits, nobody knows what's happening. There's no way he's gonna go out and build things. And he's just like, No, we're gonna go. And so we did. So we built those. And so that project has been this.
piecemeal, a couple of bunkers every year, you know. and we've got two more bunkers to build. They're that's what's being built this year. Those things just
We haven't we haven't really had to deal with cost on that because we do it so inexpensively, right? Because it's all in-house guys. Now now the guys that the the guys on the crew are all now, you know, seasoned four or five years later, seasoned construction guys, they know what's happening. but you want an example of a course that I just came in way under anyone else, and that's gonna be Ridgeway, which is the only other John Barr course other than North Hills that John Barr did in Wisconsin, or actually
He I guess he's got one up in Michigan, like the UP, but I I don't I don't know fully. and there were he's just a guy.
Matt Considine (50:01)
Who is John Barr? I'm not familiar with the architect.
Samuel Beckman (50:04)
He was a guy that was part of a engineering firm here in Chicago, and he, you know, got a couple of golf courses and yeah, so that like he's not well known. He's definitely not well known. And there's some good things and bad things to that. You get some freedom with design, but
You s you go back and look at the aerials and you know he's got everything that they did in golden age, you know, like they all match, right? They all all had the same strategies, all had those sort those things back in the twenties. but Ridgeway is that that course that I was and am significantly less money than the other people they were talking to. And I and I do that on I mean, I honestly I do that on purpose. I like not to undercut people.
Matt Considine (50:46)
Like are we
I I I just wanna put this in like perspective. Are we talking
Samuel Beckman (50:49)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (50:49)
about, you know, and I know you probably don't see exactly the other proposals, but you get d some sense of what is on the table. Like are we talking half of what another proposal would be? Are we talking a quarter of it? Like how how low can can you go?
Samuel Beckman (51:05)
certainly on the master planning fee, like it's pro on that one it was probably half. I I don't actually know because I did like you said, I don't actually know the the full number, but I my guess it was probably half if I had to have to guess. But it's also a golf club that doesn't have a ton of capital, right? And so I know that my approach to this in that one we're you know, the approach is like we're doing a little bit of work.
every year for the next four years. Right now we've got a shaper up there building new greens and building, you know, some new holes. And then their crew is doing a few things here and there. And then come spring we'll bring in well actually someone you're gonna might be familiar with. Kirk Speet, you know Kirk from yeah so Kirk Kirk went from bet
Matt Considine (51:49)
Sure do. Yeah. Good superintendent.
Samuel Beckman (51:52)
yeah he went from Beverly to having his own construction company and his approach is pretty cool because he prices it like
supplemental superintendent labor, basically. but his crew's awesome. They're they're good people. And they'll he's gonna he's gonna come in in the spring and do you know the sodding and bunker drainage and all these other things. So that's very different than a North Hills. It's some hybrid between North Hills, which is full libeled construction in and out in three months, versus Glenflora, which is a five year
one bunker at a time or two bunkers at a time, internal house. This is like right in the middle where we're doing a couple things every year. We're bringing in crews as necessary. And like so the whole point in this is like try to be flexible in how do I how can I best spend their capital to make the improvements, have the best return they possibly can and not break their bank, right? Because clubs like, you know, like I look, they got one shot at it at at Ridgeway.
I don't we don't get another shot at this. they don't get another shot at this. They just aren't in a market that supports it or or can. and that probably comes back to like my MBA and my days in corporate America and stuff like that. But I I that stuff matters to me. Golf needs to be affordable, and it does a private club can like can follow the Port Huron model, it could follow the Glenflora model, it can follow the North Hills model, or it could follow the
Chicago Golf Club model, the Shore Acres model, like all of those are or it could be great public. Like, don't get me wrong. Like, I mean, all of those models are super good options. You just gotta make sure you're you're when you're working with those models, you're working within that model that they are in. And you match their finances, you match that with what they can do. Otherwise, again, the project's gonna fail and they won't be able to maintain it, or they won't be able to, you know, generate members, or you know, they're
Their cost of entry is going to be too high for their market. All of those things play into this. And I it's important to me make golf as affordable as we possibly can. and you know, I've heard a lot of people say shrink the game, this and that. It's like, well, like, how about educate the game? Educate those who can't, who are doing stupid things out there. I'd rather you educate them than just try to shrink it because at some point we're at a golf high. You guys know this, you're in the business. Like, we're at a but five years ago before COVID.
It w you know, like I said, Glen Florida had a hundred and sixty members. They're two hundred and seventy-five now. The market's changed and hopefully we don't see another giant downturn in the golf business, but you gotta help those clubs survive those and if you overspend their capital, they they just won't do it. And then you'll see good golf courses close.
The Professor (54:39)
Yeah, great point there, Samuel. now relative to your mindset, especially this long term thinking and also, you know, long term planning, master plans, is that something that was always on your mind and have any disposition or bias towards wanting to do that work, or is that something you just alluded to your, you know, MBA in your experience in the business world that sort of shaped that mindset and thinking in that direction?
Samuel Beckman (55:02)
Part I might say part necessity. Like sometimes you don't get to choose your projects. You gotta find you know, you gotta find your way in the world. but it is all it's always been part of like my thought process of like how can you build golf course like less expensive but still quality. And I I think I like I I probably give David Savik a lot of credit for that. Like when I was coming out of school, you know, he was always he was always fascinated with the
How do how do I build this cheaper? And I don't know if it's because he came through you know, he came through Pete Dye and he then he came through Nicholas family. And like I I don't know if it was like I just wanna be different than just spending money or I I'm not I'm not, you know, I'm sure at some point he'll see this and he'll be like, I'll tell you why. You know what I mean? But but he, you know, he kinda ingrained that in in me, like, you know, kind of waste not want not sort of thing.
and so that's always been a part of the way I I approach things and and even when I was at at Jefferson in in Columbus, as a member, like on the on the green committee there, you know, I was just like, Well, you they're talking about why is their lawn grass or their fescue all weedy? And it was like, Well, 'cause you're throwing water out there for no reason. Like you're just blasting water and they're like, Well, well, why don't we get rid of the fescue? I was like, How about just stop it stop watering it?
Matt Considine (56:23)
Ha ha.
Samuel Beckman (56:24)
Like
you'll get less weeds and you'll find golf balls and all those things will kinda go away after that and and just turn the irrigation heads either off or turn them internally. Like you don't need to overwater that golf course. and so like that's you know, it's one of the things they did and so on and so forth. But we don't we don't wanna get too far down down in the Jefferson w world on me.
Matt Considine (56:46)
gosh, I wanna go a number of different directions. I'll take us to the corporate world. You mentioned it. Like tell us about the stint. I think it was in Columbus, you worked at nationwide. why was corporate America a bad fit for you?
Samuel Beckman (57:01)
I actually I would argue wasn't a bad fit. It was a great fit for me. but life happens. So even getting there, life happens. So I, you know, after September 11th, you know, the golf business was tough. It was tough for David and I, two man firm. And I was getting married and you know, starting my life and all these things. and so I went and I left, I went to landscape design, build construction for Brickman, which is now Brightview, one of the largest in the country. Like
And it was there where I was kinda like, well, I wanna I was a project management and salesman there. I don't like sales, I really don't. I I have to do it for the job, but I I hate it. And so I I did really well there. I was I was pretty, pretty good at it, but I liked the corporate aspect. I liked the corporate basking. I like the idea of having like understanding like what made the business run. And things there, you know.
I left sales and then the sales went a like the sales that I was having went away and they're like, we want to move you back to sales. It's like I I I don't want to do that. So I left, I got my MBA and I I got a job at nationwide in in in their FPA, so their finan financial planning and analysis area.
Did really well there. Actually, it was a little rocky at first. I I I will say the first year might have been a little rough. I I I I may have gotten close to losing my job there. But I had a really good I I Chris Blakely, she was she was a great boss to me and she pulled me aside and kind of like beat me over the head and was like, dude, you're better than this. And she, you know, it it that set me on on my way there. I had a good like almost nine-year career, eight-year career there.
Where I went from finance to I was in marketing. I jumped over their affinity marketing. and then I was in I was at I moved over at operations for them. I was a director of operations for one of their more their smaller lines of insurance, but still 250 million dollars or something like that worth of worth of insurance lines. and then life happens and my wife got transferred from from Columbus, Ohio to to just outside London.
And so I I had never I had no plans of leaving corporate America. Nothing. I d like n never I was like got that that I just enjoyed playing golf and that that aspect of my life I thought was over. as much as I love it, as much as I loved it then I I I thought it was over. And then I moved to England and I was just like, Well, now what am I gonna do? You know.
Matt Considine (59:24)
what do you miss today about corporate America? Like what what are the things
You know, you obviously were doing it for almost a decade. Are there things and sometimes days where you're like, Man, I really miss that? Cause I I think that would really surprise a lot of our listeners. So many of our listeners are in corporate America that, you know, we're like, man, I should, you know, quit and go do the thing I love, which is golf. And it sounds romantic, but give us the real. Like w when you're stuck in the mud, are you like, Man, love to be filling out a TPS report and just collecting a paycheck?
Samuel Beckman (59:54)
boy. you know what's funny and it's gonna circle back to the the beginning of this conversation is is the thing I missed the most about corporate was helping build people and helping build their careers. And that like I was good at that. I was good at the marketing, like having a younger marketer come in or having a younger finance person come in. I was really good at that piece of it, teaching them how to get through that. And so I filled it with coaching.
honestly, like that that that void that I had of you know, working with other people and helping them as a team achieve a goal, I filled it with coaching. And that that that helped me through look, we you come back to this, you try to do this business, golf course design business, nobody knows who you are, nobody's ever heard of you, they don't know your work. you have limited amount of things you can show them.
That's that there's some dark days in that, right? and and coaching filled those. Helping you know, I start like I told you, I started in basketball. I I it it helped fill that void of of helping these young kids like discover what they loved, discovered what they wanted to do. And so that's how I filled that void. and and it's I I still feel the same way. I I don't my wife asked like, Well, how long are you gonna coach for? I was like, I don't know.
Like I you know, I'm gonna keep going and probably till you retire and when we move someplace else, I'll probably try to coach down there, wherever that is. You know what I mean? I I really do love it. And I and it I love being a part of the community. I love, you know, coaching in the in the city I live in. So that's how I filled that void. But just and that's the thing I miss the most. And yeah, I'm I'm fortunate enough. Like I'm not you know, my wife's got a very good job, so I'm not sitting there going like, Well, where's our next meal coming from? So like I don't I don't have that issue. But we we
You know, that doesn't I say that my wife's gonna be I also listen to podcasts and she'd be like, Yeah, but I've gotta worry about those things, you know.
Matt Considine (1:01:48)
Yeah.
Samuel Beckman (1:01:49)
so there there it's not it's not all like sunshine and roses and like, if your wife has a good job, just stop what you're doing, do what you love. Like that's you know, a lot of family conversations happen on that too.
Matt Considine (1:02:00)
For sure. And by the way, Professor, you might not know Sam, that all that coaching, getting your fill there, he's known as a phenomenal coach within New Club. Just if you if you have the
The Professor (1:02:08)
Uh-huh.
Matt Considine (1:02:08)
match play and you know the the got team needs a little just nudge or talking to or his partner is kind of lost and needs to bring back, he's built a nice reputation for that. Gets a gets a lot of points, gets a lot of potential out of people.
The Professor (1:02:23)
Well that doesn't surprise me based on the conversation we've already had today. well, it's circle two okay, so you're moving to England. Was it like right then you're like, All right, moving to England, there's great golf courses around. Can I get back in the golf world? Or was that something that you just got there and started consuming, much like the Ireland, the Scotland trip, started consuming the brilliant architecture and that lit the fire back?
Samuel Beckman (1:02:48)
Well, actually what started the fire bank is yeah, I I assume you guys know of Metterburg Country Club in in Northville, Michigan, outside of Detroit. So they were that's where I grew up. That's the course I grew up on. And they were doing they were doing the renovation with Andy Staples. And they brought a group of them over to England to s to study Willie Park. And I thought they're coming over and that their GM sent me an email and was just like, Hey, we're coming over, let's meet up, let's
you know, I'd like let's go to a pub. And I was like, okay, first of all, you gotta go to a real pub, not like the chain pub. So I took took to a real club real real pub there in you know, kind of near where we lived. And we they're like, Hey, why don't you come play golf with us? Come come come around. Tell us what you know about, you know, Willie Park at Sunnydale or Walton He or let's go to Walton Heath. Let's go to Huntercombe. So I got to go with them on that and that was like, dude, I miss this.
I miss I miss these conversations. I miss this this activity. you know, there there's shaper out there, Scott Clem was with was with them. You know, we played golf, we chatted, we, you know, I I drank then, I don't drink now, but so we had some drinks, you know, we we had just a great time. Scott's my shaper up at at Ridgeway right now, which is kind of fun full circle as well. That was that was the catalyst of like
Okay, I I really miss this. It's it's time to do this. It's time to like write my business plan, put it back together. So when we when we're ready to move back to the States or when my wife's job moves us back to the States is probably the better way to put it, you know, I'm gonna hit the ground running with with what I wanna do. And so that was it. And you asked earlier, like, you know, should people choose Ireland or Scotland to go on their trip? Choose Surrey, England. I go there first.
Like it you it's just awesome golf. Just unbelievable. Like I I saw I know Saint George Hills is renovating Saint George Hill is renovating right now. One of my favorite golf courses in the entire world. It's it's it's right up there with Roe County down. And it's it's such a good golf course. So
Matt Considine (1:04:52)
I can't agree more. why do you say first? What what is it about the the Heathland golf that you think, you know, if if someone's really interested in this stuff that they need to see before, you know, the Scotland and Irelands?
Samuel Beckman (1:05:04)
Because it's like this blend between the two. It's blend between these amazing views and like pisk pic picturesque, sorry about that. Picturesque like colors like the the the purple in the heath or the fescue like that's sitting there growing or the the evergreens that are sit you know, that they all look like, you know, this mixture between all these different styles. you know, get a little bit of hints of pine earst there, a little bit of hints of
England or Ireland and Scotland, like they're all kind of coming together in those those spaces and the bunkering is is wild, but it's you know, it's it looks like it's so unkempt and yet you get in it and it's like it's it it's like the coolest thing. It's got like these different tufts and sedum and colors and heath and I just there's just so many cool things happening. Like your eye it's almost like it's just eye candy. You're I I can't stop looking at it.
Let alone the golf is just phenomenal. It's just such good.
Matt Considine (1:06:04)
It's so good.
Samuel Beckman (1:06:05)
It's so good. The strategy behind it's just it's it's like you can't it's almost like you can't consume it fast enough, if that makes sense.
Matt Considine (1:06:12)
Yeah. And
and just if you're a student of this stuff too, I like that answer, Sam, because you know, when I made that that trip with some new club members and you know, the thing that kinda so much so much of it is unassuming because especially if you're already used to the Lynx land and the massive dunes and and the the the Gulf there next to the shore, you you're right outside London. You know, you're walking up to clubs that just are are very unassuming.
But they play so incredibly well. And I think it's a little bit visually more synonymous to the majority of American golf, right? It's going to be Parkland golf. And you start to to to say, huh, what can be? You know, from the architecture all the way to the the social fabric and how it culturally is integrated with with everything over there. I I just I yeah, I don't I adore Surrey and the whole area around it. so many other areas I want to get to.
you you've mentioned Huntercomb a couple times. I think I heard you compare it to Ridgeway.
Samuel Beckman (1:07:11)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (1:07:11)
Right? What what do you see in those two properties that are are similar? And for those that don't know, Huntercomb for golf architecture nerds, it's like if you know you know, it's got some really cool stuff going on.
Samuel Beckman (1:07:25)
I I think that's the best way to put it. If you know, you know. And so it is so Huntercomb is that golf course that's like kinda out there and like, why are we driving out to this place that just seems like it's out in the middle of nowhere? Right? Like Ridgeway's the same way. It's like Ridgeway's got some of the coolest like movement. They it's just been all hidden. And and Huntercombe
Huntercomb's actually we sat there with like the who are we sitting I can't remember who the what the guy's name was, but he was like the captain right right there. And and he was telling all the history and and all those things and like Huntercomb's got all these little quirks to it, like you know, the chocolate drops sitting around, or you know, which in its own thing is is cool, but it's weird. It's cool, but it's weird.
Matt Considine (1:08:15)
It is weird. Yeah.
Samuel Beckman (1:08:16)
But it's it it feels very much like a you know, you compare that to like a Sunningdale. It's like a working man's club. It's just it's out there. It's very cool, it's out there, but it's you know, now also Huntercombe is famously Willie Park, if you don't know this about Huntercombe, is like he owned it. He basically went bankrupt, like being a part of it. And I he was a little bit crazy. Like like the stories about his sanity are out there. he he was he was weird.
And and the clo the course is weird because of that. But it's it's weird in the coolest way. And that I feel the same way about about Ridgeway, 'cause I think there's some cool things. There's some cool off views that just like go off into the farmland. And the and Ridgeway's or sorry, Huntercomb's very much the same thing where it just some of these views just go off and they go off forever and it's just rolling hills and you get the same thing over at Ridgway. And that those are kind of like those are the things that I see there. I wouldn't say that they're one for one the same, but
That's why I compare it to it. It's just it's it's kinda off the beaten track and and just kinda out there. But it's something people should play, especially when we're done with it. I think I'm really it's just excited about that as anything else. It's just that one's just such a slow, slow brew before we get anything back open. So
Matt Considine (1:09:31)
That's I'm excited now just cause well, one, the comp gets me I always like a good comp to places I've I've been, but Wisconsin, you know, just my goodness, Wisconsin. Like does it
Samuel Beckman (1:09:43)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (1:09:44)
was does it I'll ask you this does does does Wisconsin need to chill out on the great golf for a little bit? Like, do we have too much golf
The Professor (1:09:49)
Ha ha ha.
Matt Considine (1:09:50)
in Wisconsin? Seriously. It
Samuel Beckman (1:09:51)
No. Double down. Double down. Like
double down on that thing. I there there I think there's even more that people know. I I think there are a lot more out there that that people just haven't quite figured out.
Matt Considine (1:10:02)
Yeah, yeah. And I obviously a lot of your projects are there right now, but it's has has the destination golf boom, you your sand valleys, your Kohlers, your Aaron Hills, has that helped a lot of clubs you think consider these things more more so, Sam? or or w why why do you think I mean obviously everywhere is is maybe investing more in their course now, but I it does strike me that Wisconsin, especially at every level, municipal, public, private.
you know, destination are are doing things and and making it better.
Samuel Beckman (1:10:34)
Think they recognize the value of golf. and I think they've maybe just kind of been set aside because they I anything anybody I ever talked about was like, you know, whistling straights. You know what I mean? And then Aaron Hills came along and they, you know, talked about Aaron Hills a little bit. But I think, you know, yeah, Sand Valley probably has a has a play in it because, you know, people are starting to go up there. and it's, you know, it's an easy drive from Chicago to get there. But I think I think there's some
I'm there's probably some economic things happen up there. There's lot more, you know, people moving into the Wisconsin area. Like if you go, you know, there's some corporations who, you know, can sneak by just getting on the other side of the, you know, Illinois border and don't, you know, Illinois Wisconsin border and they, you know, probably get some tax savings from from doing that. so I think there's more people kind of go in that direction. I think it's
I yeah, I just kind of think that's kind of the boom. I d I do think it's made some people aware of that their their project, their property could be better. And I think there's a lot of people operating there too. I I think there's, you know, I'm not the only f you know, person up there trying to get business and drum a business. And I think that plays into it as well. And, you know, you got cool things up like Madison's got some cool things going on there. you know, obviously you've got you got Sand Valley, you've got
whistling yeah whistling straights and all the cohort properties up there. you got Lasogna. How how can I not mention Lasonia when you get up there. So I think that the more people write about it, the more people talk about it, more people are going that way and then more people are recognizing, well maybe we want to be a part of this and we should be a part of this. Our clubs we need to up our image a little bit. So
Matt Considine (1:12:12)
Yeah, well, thank goodness there's gu there's folks like yourself, Sam, that are are helping clubs at every level, you know, level up and and doing it the right way, the sustainable way, the the the way that's gonna, you know, allow it to be maintained, allow it to be affordable in hopefully a hundred years, you know. and so so I I just I learned a lot from you here today. I've always known you to be a a good dude, a competitor.
Samuel Beckman (1:12:38)
That's for
sure.
Matt Considine (1:12:39)
And and I learned more about your actual profession, which is which is great. I'm gonna take us out on a question reg regarding your competition in my crack research. Tell us about the coach's cup.
Samuel Beckman (1:12:52)
wow.
Matt Considine (1:12:53)
I I dug a little deep and and s found this competition you put
Samuel Beckman (1:12:55)
Wow.
Matt Considine (1:12:56)
together. It sounds like it's alternate shot, which is was right up my alley. I got a couple of those coming up here in the fall. how'd that come to be?
Samuel Beckman (1:13:03)
I w I wish I I wish you would have given me a heads up. I would have brought it in here. It's in my sitting in my car right now. no, so it's so we okay, so there's always a senior night for our for our girls. And traditionally we play a senior, you know, you play somebody else, you play another school. And it's so stressful because like from a coach standpoint, like you're like, well, you want to play all your seniors, but like you're also look, it's competitive golf. Like we're we need to we're trying to win the match.
And those two things don't always align. Nor could you get it at sometimes, like if you've got nine seniors, can't get nine girls in the match. parents can't get there. You got all these other things happening. So I decided to get rid of the typical let's have senior night and have a match. And what we decided to do was all the girls go on the course, they're playing they're playing a four person scramble against the and they're like the so there's this year we're whatever, seven teams. Yeah, seven teams.
And coaches are playing al alternate shot. Right? So we have to go and play alternate shot versus their four-ball scramble. Now, this only works in this format because I have a very low handicap. Otherwise, I don't think this quite works. and and we I can't play a scramble because it they're like, Coach, you're just you know, they're gonna like cause I have an assistant and he's yeah, he's a great dude, just not not as strong on the golf side for sure. And
Like you'll win everything because like you're you could you're gonna shoot under par on your own ball. Like it's you know. So we we do alternate shot to to keep this thing fair and competitive. we did not win this year, coaches did not win this year. th the girls won this year. but yeah, it's it's basically this it's coaches versus the kids. The kids get to play four four person teams and it's great because all everybody plays. Every t every single girl on the team gets to play. Parents get to go out.
two years ago I had like 19 seniors and some of them just came to the game like late and they and like the number of parents who came to me like I never thought I'd see my my child play a competitive round of golf. And it was so cool to go out there and see them and walk with them and you know have this experience. And and in that they're allowed to talk to the their parents and have fun with their parents. In you know, in competition, parents aren't allowed to say anything to them and things like that. So
It just turned into this really cool senior night event. And my daughter is a senior on the team this year. she she did not win it this year, but she won it last year and I won it the year before that. So we got a couple of Beckmans on the on the cup. but it was it was really cool. And especially you know, it just it it's a really nice way to to wrap the season for everybody at the same time.
even though we keep playing after that, like it's it's a nice way to kinda end and the the parents do an incredible job of setup and, you know, getting the food catered and everything they do to to make that ex that experience just just awesome for everybody involved. and the girls have a blast with it and and we have it blasted with it. And the amount of trash talking I got this year for
not winning or not or being beat by girls who not even the girls who didn't win the cup. I think I think we shot, I think we were three over, maybe four over. No, three over. I think we were three over. And the number of girls who came in all levels, right? Who are like, we're better than you coach. I was like, my God, please, please make this stop. But it's it's good. But I am competitive. So next year, we're coming. We're we're we're we're coming back for it. We're gonna we're gonna put our name back on that cup.
The Professor (1:16:42)
Wait, did did I hear you right? Did you say nineteen seniors?
Samuel Beckman (1:16:46)
Yeah. So I I I
Matt Considine (1:16:48)
Kevin, the the high schools in Chicago are not the high schools you grew up with in New Philadelphia, brother. They are huge.
The Professor (1:16:55)
Well that's I'm still that's go ahead. Go ahead, Sam.
Samuel Beckman (1:16:56)
Well mine's not though. I yeah.
Matt Considine (1:16:58)
No? At least forest is massive,
I thought.
Samuel Beckman (1:17:00)
Twelve hundred kids. We're we're tiny.
The Professor (1:17:02)
So you had n nineteen nineteen
Matt Considine (1:17:03)
I'm sorry, I'm thinking of yeah.
The Professor (1:17:04)
seniors on the girls golf team. I mean
Samuel Beckman (1:17:06)
Yeah, yeah.
The Professor (1:17:08)
we need a whole nother episode on just like like how do
Samuel Beckman (1:17:10)
We we we
The Professor (1:17:12)
you how do you grow a program? Seriously, that's a testament to you, Sam, as being a leader and like what you spoke to early in this episode and when the craft, because that's that's very impressive, the end up with not nineteen players but nineteen seniors on the team.
Samuel Beckman (1:17:24)
Well, we haven't it was it
w it was a year that I so a lot of girls came out. They they it was I think it was maybe my second year, and maybe maybe it was third year. And and what what happened was they they kinda learned that, hey, like he's interested in just teaching us how to play. and so we had a lot of girls come out their senior year, right? And so I've I've had to I've had
The Professor (1:17:45)
Brilliant.
Samuel Beckman (1:17:45)
to cur curb that a little bit though, because I like
Like two peop two coaches, we had so many girls that we like it was really hard to do. So now there's a little bit r if you come to me before as a freshman or or sophomore, you're gonna make it through all four years if you wanna be there. You come to me as a junior or senior, you probably have to score something. But I I still had twenty nine girls on the team this year, which like I said, we're for for twelve hundred kids, it's that's a lot of that's a lot of girls on on our golf team.
Matt Considine (1:18:12)
Our kids.
Samuel Beckman (1:18:13)
and it's it's allowing me to get a new coach or a third coach.
which I'm super excited to hire. I can't wait. I w I'm not sure I can probably say this, but I'm gonna say it anyway, is that you know, definitely figuring out how to hire a a a female who's who's played competitively. And we we've had at least one meeting with a girl who who's just fresh out of college. Was she was awesome. I I I really hope something works out with that person. but if not, like that's you know, I think it's as important to have full representation.
you know, especially you're working with girls, they they they gotta have somebody to relate to at the same end. And and I need somebody to tell me on the back end if I'm, you know, am I being, you know, am I approaching this different, you know, not the right way. Because like girls learn different than boys and it's it's it's right or wrong. It's there isn't one. It's just like you have to be able to navigate that and you have to have somebody be able to tell you like, hey, you need to either you need to push on this or back off on that.
Because like, you know, I have two girls myself. I have two, you know, children w well, they're adult. god. Aging myself. I got one who's
Matt Considine (1:19:14)
Hey.
Samuel Beckman (1:19:16)
turning twenty one this year, who's at Ohio State, by the way. And then I've got
The Professor (1:19:19)
Awesome.
Samuel Beckman (1:19:20)
and I've got one who's who's, you know, like I said, a senior and will be eighteen soon and and yeah, i if if that feels a little weird.
Matt Considine (1:19:25)
You know, I
I've been involved with the first T chapters in a few different places
Samuel Beckman (1:19:31)
Yeah.
Matt Considine (1:19:32)
now, and I'm involved with two currently and all your comments. I wasn't expecting to dive into coaching so much today, Sam, but all all your your comments, you know, one of the the realities to growing the game in what I call a sustainable way or the right way is having good coaches and and shepherds and people to to really get kids
To the next level or or just you know through the game. There's a shortage of it in golf. I I don't think we talk about it much in the industry a lot, but I know I've just with the first tease that I've I've run into, having you know, people that understand the game, they don't have to be PGA pros, but they have to just have had some experience in it. men and women are are right now there there's a shortage I see in mostly the places I'm looking at in the Midwest. And it's it's not just you know ex
Accessibility to the golf course is it's not just the cost, which those are barriers too. It is the number of coaches. So I'm always looking at the universe for little signs and little things. this call, man. I I I think if you're one of the people as you described it, that's sitting there and maybe you enjoyed mentorship in a role and and just course of life, things change. Go sign up and be a coach. truly. I I I I think it's a really big need that's gonna change a lot of kids' lives and and
Keep people in the game, get people in the game. and I know a lot of our listeners could could be excellent at that, just like you are.
Samuel Beckman (1:20:52)
Can I add a little bit to that? If you're gonna be a coach too, when they walk in the door, smile at Give a smile. Like just look, you there's time there's plenty of time to make it competitive and and push and teach them how to like practice for a competitive nature. But if you can make them smile on the golf course, you can make them like get hooked and get love the game, they'll put the work in, one way or the other. Like you'll get maybe, maybe not all of them, but you get 75% of them putting the work in.
you're gonna you're gonna be the you're gonna be well not only well liked, but you're gonna be viewed as a good coach. You're gonna you're gonna also walk away like going, Hey, this is this is good because I just made that kid's day and they're gonna make your day. I I I I don't wanna get too far in the story, but I was having a really tough day a couple weeks ago and sorry. My family makes fun of me. I tear up at certain things, but I was having a tough day and one of my one of my freshmen
sent me this video and it was it was basically for her new media class and was like why I love golf and I just I just was floored by it. I was like this I mean this kid just just summed it up in a minute and a half video that I was I I you know and I thanked her. I sent her an email. I said, listen, you don't understand how bad my day was going and how you know how challenging it was and you just you made my day. You like you made me smile. You made me like realize like why I'm doing this. And it was
It was awesome. And and it comes back to it comes back to in spades. A hundred percent. Every time. So
Matt Considine (1:22:23)
That's that's the job right there, Sam. Sounds like the other stuff we're talking about is a hobby. You you you're you're you're making impact, man.
Samuel Beckman (1:22:28)
I don't know about that, but yes. Yeah.
Matt Considine (1:22:34)
well, thanks for being with us. Seriously. This is so fun.
Samuel Beckman (1:22:35)
Appreciate it.
Matt Considine (1:22:36)
Well won't be the last time we'll have you back. We can talk about updates, more of your projects and everything. And the backdrop and new club are in partnership with our new partner, Inglewood Associates. If you own a business, many of you do, if you sit on a board.
And you're starting to stare at that critical turn, a crisis, a sale, a key seat that you need to fill, or maybe just a plateau. Inglewood's senior experts have been in that room since 1983. Senior people, start to finish. Start the conversation at ingw.com, I needgoodwiske.com, and tell them that the bagdrop sent you. Thanks everybody for listening. Thanks, Sam, to join in.
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