The Mindset Law Firms Owners Need for the Next Decade

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Are you a law firm owner looking for ways to integrate AI into your firm? In this episode of the Maximum Lawyer Podcast, Tyson interviews Billie, a law firm owner and legal tech entrepreneur, about the rapid changes in the legal industry. They discuss the challenges of managing law firm operations, experimenting with side projects like the Modern Divorce Navigator, and the impact of AI and venture capital on legal services.

Billie shares how AI can increase efficiency in the legal space. There is a current shortage of lawyers and because of this, many people are unrepresented or are having a hard time finding a lawyer. AI has the ability to transform the legal practice and allow lawyers to represent more people and cut down their processes and systems to provide them the time to do it.

Billie and Tyson chat about how AI can handle client communications. It can really change the intake system and do tasks like handling client calls. Training AI to handle client inquiries can make things easier for lawyers who might not have the time to respond to clients when needed. It would be great for AI to read client files and provide updates. Though this could be very intrusive and take tasks away from admin staff or paralegals, it is a great way to cut down on firms that are extremely overwhelmed.

Listen in to learn more!

• 2:17 Modern Divorce Navigator: Concept & Failure 
• 5:01 Recognizing When to Quit
• 5:37 Law Firm Owners & Side Projects 
• 9:30 AI’s Role in Access to Justice
• 10:19 AI, Fees, and the Legal Market 
• 16:27 Challenges of Law Firm Acquisitions
• 18:44 Legal Tech Investment & AI Tools
• 21:05 Building vs. Buying Legal Tech
• 23:31 Rapid AI Advancements & Future Predictions 
• 30:40 Staffing Adjustments & Role Evolution
• 37:34 AI for Current Clients & Future Potential 
• 42:30 Hiring a House Manager: Challenges & Tips
  
  

Tune in to today’s episode and checkout the full show notes here. 


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Creators and Guests

Host

Tyson Mutrux

Tyson is the founder of Mutrux Firm Injury Lawyers and the co-founder of Maximum Lawyer.

What is Maximum Lawyer?

Maximum Lawyer is the podcast for law firm owners who want to scale with intention and build a business that works for their life.

Hosted by Tyson Mutrux, each weekly episode features candid conversations with law firm owners, business experts, and industry leaders sharing real strategies and lessons learned in the trenches.

If you're ready to grow your firm with less stress and more support, this is your next must listen. Subscribe today.

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:02 This is maximum lawyer with your host, Tyson Matrix.

Tyson Mutrux 00:00:11 All right, Billy, we were just talking about focusing on the right things and letting things go. And you've sort of been going through that in your life recently. So we talked to me a little bit about that.

Billie Tarascio 00:00:21 Yeah, absolutely. So things have begun changing very, very, very, very quickly. And maybe three months ago was when I first started realizing just how quickly and a few things happened. One, I got an offer from a venture capital firm to buy modern law. Next, I implemented an incredible AI software that started replacing people in my intake department. And third, I went to Cleo Khan and they rolled out how their technology is just completely different than it was four months ago. And so my head has been swimming with. What do we do? What direction do we go in? What do we? And I read a book on scaling and the most important thing that came out of that book. But really, what's necessary for every single business owner right now, there are so many things that need our attention.

Billie Tarascio 00:01:15 What can we let go so that we can be paying attention to the things that are most important?

Tyson Mutrux 00:01:20 All right. So I want to ask you about Modern Divorce Navigator because of this, because this is something that you're letting go. But yeah, now I don't think a lot of law firm owners or lawyers, they know what the hell sunk cost me or anything. But I do wonder, are you viewing it more as a sunk cost where this is, this is a cost. I know we put a bunch of time and effort into this thing. We're just going to let it go. I do wonder how you're viewing it, because I can't imagine it's the easiest thing to let go. This isn't a small thing that you're letting go know.

Billie Tarascio 00:01:49 So a huge part of my mission for the last 15 years has been access to justice. And I've been playing with access to justice projects and businesses that kind of have been alongside the law firm because a low cost access to justice law firm didn't work. And so immediately that had to pivot to we're gonna be profitable, but how can I make sure that I'm still taking care of this other portion of the population that I really care about, that I think we can serve in some way.

Billie Tarascio 00:02:17 And the latest version of that is so cool, and it's called the Modern Divorce Navigator. And it's awesome. So it's courses, it's an online community, and it's office hours with lawyers five days a week, where lawyers would be available to members who could come on and ask their questions from anywhere in the country. And it's not legal advice and it's not confidential and it's not privileged and it's just troubleshooting. And like, you're going to tell me your problem and I'm going to be like, hey, have you tried this? Or look up XYZ statute that would in Arizona. This is how we'd handle it. Go look at it here. And it's so cool. But you know what? People did not sign up.

Tyson Mutrux 00:02:56 So I mean we've got the guild and I, I it is one of those things where I can take things very personally, where let's say if someone were to quit the guild, it I take it very personally. And it's one of those things where in any membership site of any kind, any membership group of any kind, people come, people go, you know, we have our core people that have been around for years and years.

Tyson Mutrux 00:03:21 So you have like your base, but you do have people that sort of come and go. And I do wonder, like, how personally do you take that?

Billie Tarascio 00:03:29 Well, I mean, we iterate quickly. So first this was I was approached by a different lawyer in Arizona who wanted to do this together, and I was like, yeah, I'm down. I have a huge national audience. I will point my national audience to this thing. And she did most of the courses and most of the office hours. And about a year in, she's like, this is not making enough money. It was making like 5 or $6000 a month. And she's like, it's just not making enough money, you know, Do you want it? And I'm like, yeah, I want it. I think me and my team can take it. And I used my marketing team. So we spent 2025 really focused on promoting the Modern Divorce Navigator. And we dropped the price way down. 29 bucks a month is where this started out.

Billie Tarascio 00:04:10 And we weren't really getting a lot of people and people were canceling, like, how are you going to cancel? Like, but they were. And then we raised the prices and people still kept signing up, but we were still having the same problems. So we started making more money. But I got to and it was all my team. So because it was all my team and I own modern Law and I own this, I wasn't really accounting for the true costs of this product, which is a problem. Like, I would highly recommend that even if it's all you, even if you're sharing resources like figure out how much of my XYZ person's time is spent on this project, and let me take the cost of that and allocate it over here. It took me a long time, but finally I did, and I was like, you know Caitlin, who runs my books, can you take you know, this vendors cost and this vendors cost in this and put it in the books over here and tell me what we're doing.

Billie Tarascio 00:05:01 And we were like 12 grand in the whole. And that wasn't even accounting for everything. And I'm like, what are we doing? This product is taking resources away from my law firm, which pays all of us. It's not bringing in clients, and the public doesn't even want it. So here we are doing this great service, and we've got 100 members, you know, and half of them are canceling. Like, this is not a product that people want. And that became abundantly clear to me when I started working with this other tech. And it was super, super cool. And I was like, I may want to maybe invest in that or get involved in that. And I'm like, I can't, we can't do it all. So what are we going to drop?

Tyson Mutrux 00:05:37 Right. That's really interesting. I how often do you think this is something that law firm owners go through? Like, is this a do you think this is a common thing?

Billie Tarascio 00:05:45 I don't think most law firms experiment as aggressively as I do.

Tyson Mutrux 00:05:50 Interesting. So you think it's on average, less likely. So people are less likely to be like you and me where we have this side company that. That's interesting. I thought completely differently. I thought that you would say that there are a lot of law firm owners there tinkering with other things that are distracting them, and so they need to be more focused. So like what percentage than of law firm owners do you think are tinkering with other sort of companies that are just a waste of time?

Billie Tarascio 00:06:18 Well, that's a good question. Every law firm owner is tinkering with something, right? It might be a certain practice area, a certain offering within their law firm, a side hustle, right. So everybody's tinkering with something that is not a good use of your time. Employees that you know shouldn't be there, that are not like in line with your values or your culture. Right? We all do that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:06:45 I think it's funny because I can tell how much you really thought about this? Because I know we were talking about it a little bit beforehand, but you're thinking about it, and in ways I never really thought about things that you should be cutting loose.

Tyson Mutrux 00:06:57 But here's the other thing. Here's the rub. Like Max law has grown into this thing where it's it's much bigger than what it was. And I think early on I could have viewed it that way and said, this is probably not worth the time. We can cut it loose. But if I had done that, I never would have grown into what it's become. So do you ever view? I mean, like we just look at the modern divorce navigator? I mean, do you ever think about it? Maybe it could grow into this thing. And. Yeah, it's not worth your time right now, but maybe it could.

Billie Tarascio 00:07:23 Be the whole thing when you launch something is what is the potential of this? But I also think we need to be realistic with ourselves. And when I'm trying harder than the customers who want to join, like, and I've done this, I've served this population like first the thing I did was I built with a developer, forward facing documents that I would sell to people that they could use on their own.

Billie Tarascio 00:07:45 I spent like 100 grand like years. And guess what? People didn't want that. What they wanted. They wanted a human. So then I opened up a dock prep company where I could allow people to hire a human to help them with document prep. That was very successful. People want 1 to 1. They want humans. They want a service. They don't want a DIY. And so I knew this before I did the Modern Divorce Navigator. So the modern Divorce Navigator was a lesson I've already learned that just did that just played out the exact same way.

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:13 This question I don't mean it in an insulting way, I promise. Why do you think you are the way you are when it comes to the like, tinkering with these other companies then?

Billie Tarascio 00:08:23 Oh, because I'm really emotionally connected to this concept of access to justice and increasing access to justice. Like when I came out of law school, like the first thing that was so abundantly clear to me is there's all these people with legal needs, and they would pay to talk to a lawyer.

Billie Tarascio 00:08:40 They just can't pay what lawyers are charging. And so I opened up the law firm and the concept was $99 an hour. Pay as you go. Limited scope only. Like, let's reject the law firm business model. No retainers, no billable hours. So that's like my starting point. And I still like somewhere believe that, but it just doesn't work.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:01 Where does that belief come from? Like what? I mean, is this something where you encountered when you were younger? And so now you're out there fighting for like, why? Why is that? Why do you have that axe to grind?

Billie Tarascio 00:09:10 I know it's true. Like, I know that it is true that people need lawyers because I'm a family law attorney, like everybody. Like, you know, 80% of family law petitions and people are representing themselves. They want a lawyer. So there's this massive business potential there.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:30 Do you think AI is filling that, fulfilling that purpose?

Billie Tarascio 00:09:32 I think that's our next best possible place. I think that law firms have the potential to become so much more efficient that each lawyer is going to be able to help so many more people, because why do we have this supply demand issue? It's because we don't have enough lawyers.

Billie Tarascio 00:09:52 If we had enough people who could provide services, 80% of people wouldn't be unrepresented. They would have, you know, less qualified lawyers, less valuable, less in-demand lawyers that served them for cheaper. And so if AI can transform our practice and make it so that I can serve 100 clients for flat fees, I'm going to make more money and I'm going to be able to help more people.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:19 Okay. So that's a good transition because I want to ask you about that. Do you think because there is currently still still the transition is not fully happened yet because of AI, but you can use it to look at any niche and you have the volume people who I'm going to call some of them out a little bit, their quality of services are not as good. They're just not. And they're charging less, so they're doing volume work. I just kind of think of like the criminal defense area. I know there's a lot of these attorneys that they just handled a ton of cases, charged a lot less money so they can get those cases, but they're they just couldn't offer as much.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:58 There's just it's impossible to. And then you also have this other on the very other end of the spectrum where there's the attorneys that take far less clients, but their fees are insanely high. Right. Where you've got attorneys charging like 20 grand for a DWI, you know, things like that. And so do you think because of AI and I'll call it the leveling of justice? Right. So the playing field is getting more level. Do you think that the fees are going to go up? Do you think they're going to go down like what do you think is going to happen with the actual fees? And do you think you said that you you think that we're all going to make more money? Like, do you I mean, do you actually think that that's true? Yes. Okay. Do you think so? Does that mean the average fee is going to go up? Going down. How? Tell me how you think that's going to happen.

Billie Tarascio 00:11:43 I think we can do both. I think that I will be able to sell, let's say, $10,000 flat fee divorces with parameters, and I'm going to be able to sell a ton of them, and I'm going to be able to do more of them in less time.

Tyson Mutrux 00:11:59 Okay. Let me give you I'm not going to say pushback, but I do I think that there's another I think there's another reality that's possible where you have the haves and the have nots, where the haves are the ones with all like, like I guarantee your firm is going to be this way. My firm's going to be this way where we have all the AI tools, we have all the agents doing these different things, and you're going to have the ones that aren't and they're they're not going to have the the resources. They're going to be trying to do things the old way, and they're not going to be able to do as much. And their quality of service is going to go down because they're not using those tools, and then you're going to have ours where our quality service is going to go way up because our costs have gone way down. And so Aye aye. Aye. What do you think about that thought 100% true.

Billie Tarascio 00:12:41 And we're going to end up swallowing them up. Consolidation is happening and that's part of that.

Billie Tarascio 00:12:47 You know private equity is circling law. But whether it's outside money or whether it's lawyers ourselves doing it, we're going to swallow our competition.

Tyson Mutrux 00:12:58 Do you think private equity is going to be good for the legal space? Because I definitely wanted to get into this with you. Like, what are your. Is that something that is going to help fulfill that goal, the goal that you have when it comes to giving equal access to justice to everybody?

Speaker 4 00:13:11 I don't know. I don't know. I mean.

Billie Tarascio 00:13:14 Right now it seems like the best that the big money can do is to provide us tools like AI tools to make our practice work better, and they can make a lot of money doing.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:27 That. I agree, I, I do think, I think they can contribute to the haves and the have nots, which I'm not so sure it's great for the legal profession having a bunch of haves and have nots, because to me that serves the opposite purpose. And I'm not against private equity, by the way.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:42 But I do think when it comes to that, I think it it could have the opposite effect of maybe what you want.

Billie Tarascio 00:13:48 Well, I mean, that's where we're at now, right? I think we're at the haves and have nots right now, don't you think?

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:52 I do, I do think presently we are definitely at that point. We are at the because you have the people that are not using AI at all and and I and I'd say even before that there's the haves and the have nots. You've got the big mega firms that have come. And I want to I want to ask you about your firm being approached in a second, too. But you have the big mega firms like Morgan and Morgan coming in to Saint Louis and absorbing injury firms like that's how their their expanding their footprint is absorbing firm by firm by firm. And you were approached not by Morgan and Morgan obviously because they don't do family law. But I do wonder what it was like whenever someone comes to you and approaches you about maybe taking on your law firm.

Billie Tarascio 00:14:35 Yeah. So the Morgan and Morgan model makes sense to me. Morgan and Morgan knows how to practice personal injury law. They've got systems, they've got processes. They've got trainers. They've got. They know what they're doing. They know how to process intake. They they know what they're doing. I'm sure that everybody who's listening and you and me get a ton of emails saying, we want to buy your firm, right. You get a ton of those, right?

Tyson Mutrux 00:14:59 Oh, yeah. Yeah. From from a different sources to, from a variety of different sources. Yeah.

Billie Tarascio 00:15:03 Right. And so I've always wanted to like, know what that means. So every once in a while I'll just respond to some of them and be like, yeah, tell me what's up. And up until this, this group that I talked to, they were all brokers. I'm an M&A. I'm I've got my eye on the industry like that's where we were. But then this particular group introduced themselves specifically as a venture capital firm that wanted to buy firms, and that had purchased other service based businesses and wanted to get into law.

Billie Tarascio 00:15:39 So I wanted to have that conversation and it went pretty quick. You know, I gave them my financials. I talked about my business model. They gave me an offer. The offer wasn't enough, like at all. And they needed me to run it because they don't know how to run it. They don't have a business model. So that's the thing with venture capital is they're not well positioned to come in and scoop up and run law firms because they don't know how to do that. They don't know that business model. So they need law firm owners to do it for them. So unless they're going to pay a lot of money, a lot of money, it's not going to be in our best interest to do that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:14 I do think that there's a lot of firms and I agree. Do you agree with you to a certain extent about Morgan and Morgan and their model being the right way? Because I'm convinced there's a lot of law firm owners out there that are sort of accidental law firm owners.

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:27 Yeah. And from the variety of sort of recessions that have happened over the last two decades where they sort of they, they kind of accidentally became this law firm owner and they stayed in it and they've, they've got this drawer of files that they would much, much be they'd be much happier if they just said, hey, become my boss, take on all these files. I need this staff. And but they don't they don't have like this exit plan and they don't they don't really feel like they have anywhere to go. So I do think that there is a way that you could go out and you could find those types of firms and take on those firms. The only rub would be, is that they probably those law firm owners that are these accidental law firm owners are probably have terrible habits at this point. They're not they don't know how to become an employee. They've got all this freedom of being a law firm owner. And that's where there is this. Like, I think there's a market for it, but there's also there's yeah, there has to be very clear expectations going into a relationship like that.

Billie Tarascio 00:17:22 Oh yeah. I mean I've certainly hired those let's call them duds. I mean, they can't fit into the system and just do the thing. And like, our expectations are real reasonable and real clear. And not everybody can do that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:17:34 Yeah, and I don't. I mean, if I'm being really fair, like, I don't think it would be really hard for me to become an employee if someone were to hire me. Let's say they took on my firm. I don't know if I could do it. I really don't know if I could become an employee. I might be able to I might be able to do it for a little bit.

Billie Tarascio 00:17:50 I bet you could. I bet you could. Under the right circumstances, which is you have the freedom to do anything you want to do communicate, get your job done well, take care of your clients. That's essentially our model. Like, yes, we have all the ways to do it. But you can you make your own schedule. You you know, we're not going to tell you how to do the job, but you have to do it well.

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:09 Very true. And that's I mean, kind of get back to the focus thing. That's I mean, figuring out what the right focus is. That's, that's that's a really important part. I want to ask you about there's a ton of money. There's hundreds of millions of there are maybe billions at this point flooding into legal tech. I don't understand it. It doesn't make sense to me. I understand if it were if it were flooding into like legal AI stuff, but it's just legal tech in general. Like, can you make any sense of that? Whenever you can go and create a freaking website, you can create your own case management system, doing vibe coding in a matter of a couple hours and like, does it make any sense to you?

Billie Tarascio 00:18:44 Well, what companies are you seeing the money flow into?

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:48 Many of the like I think File Vein got a big round fairly recently. I mean, I'm talking there are several of them. There was I covered a couple stories on the Guild live show over the last six months or so, where there's just massive amounts.

Tyson Mutrux 00:19:02 I'm talking hundreds of millions of dollars going into several different companies in the amount going into the legal space to the legal tech space keeps going up. It's not going down, it's going up. And that just doesn't make sense to me.

Billie Tarascio 00:19:14 Okay. So I think this is a really important conversation. So have you heard about Cleo's big updates and announcements?

Tyson Mutrux 00:19:22 No, but I wanted to ask you about it because it's a fairly recent thing and I don't I don't I'm not Cleo user and I know that you were there, so I would love to hear about it.

Billie Tarascio 00:19:29 Yeah. So they got their last round, or in total, I think they have gotten about $1 billion in venture capital over 11 rounds since their companies inception. They recently purchased Velux and Velux, had already merged with Fast Case and was a database of law.

Tyson Mutrux 00:19:54 And I was aware that because I, I that's something I covered. It was like a month or two or maybe a few months ago. I'm aware of that, yes.

Billie Tarascio 00:20:01 So what they did is they then incorporated AI into their software so that you can now go into Clio work and it will look at your file, your file on your whatever you're looking at and all the law that could possibly be applicable.

Billie Tarascio 00:20:21 And you can ask it to you can say, here's the pleading draft me a pre-trial or here's the issues. Write me the deposition questions or et cetera, etc., etc.. Here's the my opposing parties brief. Tell me all the everything that's wrong. And because it's a closed system, it can't hallucinate. It can't make up cases. It's only looking at the relevant legal documents. And if it can do that and it can, it already started to like it. It can look at a minute entry from a judge and pull out all the deadlines and put them on the calendar for you. If it can eliminate 80% of the time that we have to spend, if we're just directing AI, it's going to be a really valuable tool.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:05 100%. But I also think you could build that same thing with I don't like how much is it? How much is it for Clio? Let's say you have give me a ballpark. Let's say you have 20 employees. Like what? Like what if we.

Billie Tarascio 00:21:17 Couldn't get, though, is the data that is essentially owned by Westlaw, Your Lexus necklace.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:25 Oh, I think I think you could. I think you can. And you could build agents that even though you. It would, it would be access in a different way. I totally I know you can access it in a different route. Probably. You'd have to it would require a some sort of plan with one of those major companies. But you could still you could still totally do it.

Billie Tarascio 00:21:49 You mean sold by them like a tool sold. Well, yeah, they're selling it to.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:53 Oh no, no, no, actually, I mean like a tool you create that goes and accesses it. So you let's say you have a legal, a subscription through one of those companies like LexisNexis or Westlaw. I see you're saying, so you could build your own thing that goes and accesses those, those subscriptions. And then so you have the same thing, right? You have the access to the same thing. And that's where that's why to me, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. And maybe it's just the fact that a whole lot of people don't know, you can go and build those things now, like you can.

Tyson Mutrux 00:22:22 I could go right now. There's a there's multiple platforms now where you can actually vibe code audit AI agents and automations like you just say, hey, here's what I want this to. I want this to go axilla. Access West laws website. Here's the login information. I want you to build me this thing, the same thing that Cleo has. And it could go out and build that thing. And that's where that's where it's going to get out. Where is it gonna get out? You can go do that. And next thing you know, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to pay, I don't know, thousands of dollars per month paying for something like Cleo. It just won't make that much sense.

Billie Tarascio 00:23:02 I think that your view of what agents can do right now is not the same as mine. Because we're building agents, we're using agents. They are not they. The potential of what you're talking about is promised. But I haven't seen anything do that. And when we build this stuff there, you know, it's clunky.

Billie Tarascio 00:23:26 You gotta go fix it. Like, it's not as easy as just saying build me x, y, z and do it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:23:31 I can tell you that I doubt it can do the things I'm saying.

Billie Tarascio 00:23:35 You've got magical people.

Tyson Mutrux 00:23:37 There are, but there are also. I do think the earlier versions were way worse and the earlier versions were way clunkier. They're getting way better. They're getting way easier to use. And it's something else we've been we were talking about before we were recording too. It was like how quickly things are changing. That is part of the problem too, is that things are changing so quickly. Like, you just go month by month and the way things have changed within what, the last three months, you've had Atlas come out from OpenAI. You've had complexity or comment come out, come out with perplexity. Those two are massive shifts in how people can use AI agents where if you're just chatting with it, those aren't even those are more like real world now, today. Types of things Google just released this week in their AI view.

Tyson Mutrux 00:24:32 It's funny because I don't use as Chrome as much as I used to, but in there in Chrome, when you Google something, you know in the overview AI overview, it'll actually let you like book appointments and book flights and book, you know, lots of multiple other things. Let's say you want to go to a concert or a movie or whatever it would be. The agent will book it for you now. So there's all these things that are changing on a regular basis, which does shift how your processes will work. But as of right now, you can you can completely build the platform that you're wanting and it will work pretty well. There is. We built something, so we built Becca's list so people could rate vendors. That's a really big thing that we did because in the legal space, it's hard to figure out which of the good vendors, which were the bad vendors? How much are they charging all that? So we built this, you know, a rating platform. We actually vibe coded it, but we built it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:24 We started about, I don't know, eight months ago. It did require humans to to finalize it because there are many things I there's a horror story that I saw on X a couple months ago where someone had built out a similar platform and not it wasn't a rating platform, but it was a it was a some sort of platform where they had user data and when they coded it, there was something in the vibe coding platform that they used where all the user logins and passwords were showing. If you if you were a developer and you went in and looked at the code, it showed all their user data. So that's that's something that terrifies me. So we'll always have like a developer development team that comes in and looks at things. But all the all I have to say is I it can do lots and lots of things, as all I can say is much, much better than it could months ago.

Billie Tarascio 00:26:10 Yes. No, you're entirely right. And there will be some firms that say I don't want to purchase XYZ tool, I'm going to build it.

Billie Tarascio 00:26:18 And then there'll be a large amount of firms who say, I don't want to build it. I want to use the tool because it makes me more profitable.

Tyson Mutrux 00:26:26 Don't you think, though, we're going to get to a point where you just chat into a window and you say, hey, I want to do this thing, and it goes and does it.

Billie Tarascio 00:26:35 I mean, it's possible.

Tyson Mutrux 00:26:36 Let's say you just had all your files in Google. Let's just we'll just I'll make up a scenario. So all your files and everything is just in Google. It's using Google Drive or whatever. I think we're very close to a world where I'm in like OpenAI's Atlas browser, and I say I need to draft a brief in response to this motion to dismiss. And it just does it for you. And there's you're not doing it. You're not going to 12 different platforms and you're just doing it like Elon Musk was. I don't know if you listen to Joe Rogan, but he was on Joe Rogan this week and he was talking about he said in five years, and I think he's got a pretty good track record of predicting things like this.

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:12 So I actually take this with with the I. I'm taking this pretty seriously. He's pretty interesting. There's. Yeah, he's done pretty well. You know, I think if he just he said if you you're just going to be basically it's going to be in a chat window and the AI is just going to be feeding you the things that it thinks that you're going to want, or you'll be doing everything in like a chat window and it's all going to be right there. There's not going to be you going to like 20 different apps to do things. It's just going to be right there in front of you. Yeah. And I do find that very interesting. And I kind of think that we're pretty close to that.

Billie Tarascio 00:27:41 I mean, if that happens, everybody's going to turn off their subscriptions, right? Their expensive subscriptions and just be like, okay, right.

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:50 Isn't that a scary world to think about, though?

Billie Tarascio 00:27:52 I mean, the whole thing right now is overwhelming. Yeah, change is happening too fast.

Billie Tarascio 00:28:00 There's too many opportunities. There's too many tools to vet. There's too many ways you can go. So I feel like you just gotta pick something and be adaptable.

Tyson Mutrux 00:28:12 Okay. So let's let's kind of go full circle here. Then with all of this happening, how were you able to pare things down and focus only on what's important.

Billie Tarascio 00:28:22 You know you make a decision, you go with it. So after I came out of Clio Con and saw what that tech could do, that nothing else at this moment can do except for that tech. I was like, we got to do that. That means a lot of changes. I got to get all my documents out of box. I got to get them into Clio. We got to stop using all these other softwares that we use, because I didn't love Clio the best for whatever. And we have to we have to do this. We have to commit to this so we can use the best tool available on the market. Now team, you're either in or out.

Billie Tarascio 00:28:54 That's what's got to happen. Right?

Tyson Mutrux 00:28:55 Are they in are the team is the team in?

Billie Tarascio 00:28:57 I think most of them are in certainly like you know it's only been three weeks. So yeah. And so we've got town halls that are happening every single week. Where we go over here are all the updates. Nobody has to make any changes now. But here's coming. Here's how. Here's this feature. Here's how this works. You know, just and then we've got a lot of people internally who are like, I'm going to be the boss of X, I'm going to be the boss Y. We've got all these leaders internally who are training and championing. So I think it's going really well. And I do want to talk about intake, because two months ago I put this intake software in that is AI intake, and it's allowed me to reduce my intake headcount by one and a half people. And so the intake experiment has been, I think, very instructive to what is going to happen in the other departments.

Billie Tarascio 00:29:53 So this was the first department where I actually put in tech that could actually take over people's jobs. And it changed the role of the humans because the humans don't need to do everything they were doing before, because the tech can do a lot of it. So this is the first time that I've actually seen this theoretically in action. And it it has revealed certain things. You need fewer people, but you need better people. They have to be adaptable. They have to have excellent people skills. They have to have excellent judgment because the value of execution is going down and the value of creativity and judgment way up.

Tyson Mutrux 00:30:29 Okay. That's interesting. So how how are you going through this, this cycle with your firm then? Because I'm guessing that all of your people fit that mold.

Billie Tarascio 00:30:40 No. Well, I mean, one got fired because he should have been fired. He was, you know, behaving unprofessionally and, like, vaped in the middle of a meeting and like, you know, made it easy, right? If we got to get rid of people and you act like a jerk, you're going to be gone.

Tyson Mutrux 00:30:55 Yeah, that's an easy one.

Billie Tarascio 00:30:56 Right? And then one person promoted out like she had been in there a long time, and she kind of didn't want to. And now we didn't have the same volume of tasks. So we could give her other work that she wanted to do. But, you know, that particular team is struggling. You know, they weren't hired for the same purpose and they are struggling to understand, like the new role and to use great judgment and to, you know, to maximize the value of the tech to make your job easier. But that's not true for everybody. I mean, the intake manager the other day was like, I'm having better, higher quality conversations because I now have information that I wouldn't have had going into this. We're booking more people. It's making my life easier. And that's what you want.

Tyson Mutrux 00:31:36 What do you think of it is about AI or intake that made it so easy to replace the people you did when it comes with with AI. Because to me that seems like a really hard one to to replace people, replace people in.

Billie Tarascio 00:31:49 So the software that I'm using, it's called Lexi Desk AI and they start. They started it in the UK in 2022, and they built a platform where users, they were selling leads. So they had a whole lot of people from a lots of different areas of law training this AI intake bot. And then they were selling it off to different lawyers. So the software has been having these discussions for four years and has been trained on exactly what to ask, how to make sure that, you know, you validate every person's you know, if they tell you something uncomfortable that you, you, you make sure to let them know. Oh, that must be really hard. Like, it's so good. And so it collects, you know, name, email, phone, what's going on in your case, how many dollars are we talking about? Where's your county? And all the while giving it reassurance. And then it will say the best lawyer, based on what I've heard from you, is an she's in your area.

Billie Tarascio 00:32:48 She has ten years experience. I'm going to send you a link so you can book with her right now. So I'm getting I'm capturing all the leads that I was using before, and the whole reason I found this software was because I had this crappy marketing company and they're like, it's not us, it's you. You don't answer your phone. and people would be shocked to know how many phone calls get dropped. And they just, you know, people are on lunch or they're sick or they're in meetings or they're in our town hall and they're not answering the phone. So just capturing everything is amazing. And then having all of that information in advance so that my intake people can call back and know exactly what this case is about is great.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:21 All right. So quit hiding the goods. What's the what's the what is this platform? What are we talking about? Well, Lexi, I spell Lexi.

Billie Tarascio 00:33:29 Lexi.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:30 Lexi. Dex. Desk. Desk. AI.

Billie Tarascio 00:33:33 Yeah. So go to the website.

Billie Tarascio 00:33:35 They have a widget on the front, and you can just talk to it. So that's how I stumbled upon it. ChatGPT told me about it. I went to the website. We can try it now. We can demo it now.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:44 Yeah, let's do that. Let me, find it. There we go. Lexi. Desk. It's interesting how many other ads there were. I just searched, I didn't I didn't put in the. I'll actually I'm gonna go back for a second so people can see this because this is really interesting. Let me share my screen. So people that are if you're listening, we'll try to kind of walk you through this. But it's interesting because at the very top I just searched in Lexi desk AI and I don't know if you can see it very well on your screen, so I'll zoom in a little bit, but it's interesting. So you have Eve, you have Thomson Reuters and you have a call id usa.com, which I don't even know if these are.

Tyson Mutrux 00:34:25 Yeah. These are sponsored results. So 1234 that are that are running ads off of Lexi desk. That's interesting. And then and it takes up a big part of the screen. So if I just kind of zoom out to regular size, you don't even see in the opening window Lexi desk, and then you finally get down to it and then you click on it.

Billie Tarascio 00:34:45 Now we're on the UK version, but it doesn't matter. Just click on Emma right there. Yeah, click on her. Because if we want to go to the US version it's Lexi Desk dot AI us because it was originally a UK company it just got to the US.

Tyson Mutrux 00:34:58 Yeah I've got a question about a case. So is she. Cut me off. I didn't like that. I didn't appreciate it.

Speaker 5 00:35:04 No, no, you didn't appreciate that at all.

Tyson Mutrux 00:35:06 Okay, so this is. Oh, sure. She's still here? Yeah. Are you still there? Yeah. I need to have a will drafted. Yeah, I have lots of things, but I'm not real comfortable talking about it because there's a lot of people listening to me right now, so I'd rather not say those things.

Tyson Mutrux 00:35:20 Yeah, I'd rather talk to the attorney about that. Can you tell me, is this covered by attorney client privilege? All right. So that's I'm going to back out of that because I that was interesting. What was interesting to me is that and I don't know if this is how it's going to work on like your side or whatever, but it disappeared. Like I didn't know who I was talking to. And but there's like the screen it had like the information where I'd put in my information. But does it just keep talking to you while you're on the site?

Billie Tarascio 00:35:47 Well, so I don't have that on my site. I only have you can call and talk to her on the phone.

Tyson Mutrux 00:35:53 So it's just on the phone. Okay. Got it.

Billie Tarascio 00:35:55 All right. And then there's a there's a chat that is the same programming.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:00 Is the chat audio dino or is it? Is it text or both?

Billie Tarascio 00:36:03 It's not.

Speaker 5 00:36:03 So the audio.

Billie Tarascio 00:36:05 Chat is only, I think, on their website. But I think, you know, after doing that demo, I think I might want to update it so that it says in the beginning, let's make sure we don't talk over each other.

Billie Tarascio 00:36:16 So if you could please wait until I'm done. That would really help our conversation. I think that that would be important.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:22 Yeah, I do, because I was there were times where you could tell I didn't know when to talk or when when it was going to talk. That was.

Billie Tarascio 00:36:29 Right.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:30 That's interesting.

Billie Tarascio 00:36:30 Yeah. I mean, this is not like perfect, right? But it's like an 85%, 100% of the time. And that's been a real game changer.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:44 What do you think a human is on average?

Billie Tarascio 00:36:46 Not that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:47 Less than 85%.

Billie Tarascio 00:36:48 I.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:48 Do. Do you think? Well, I mean, I guess your numbers show that it's doing better than humans.

Billie Tarascio 00:36:54 It is.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:55 Because I want to say, like, my. My thought would be that people would prefer a human and not an AI.

Billie Tarascio 00:37:02 If they ask a human, they get transferred to human. But yeah. No, I think most people would prefer to talk to a human. The thing in family law is that intake people burn out so quickly.

Billie Tarascio 00:37:14 Like months, really, maybe six months. So you have all the time to train them, which takes a lot longer than training a bot. And then you might get six months of empathy and focus. But the job takes so much empathy and focus and attention to detail that people really struggle with it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:37:34 Do current clients call the AI and talk to the AI?

Billie Tarascio 00:37:38 It's not as good with current clients, so the way that we have it set up is you call and you first get to a phone tree. If you know your party's extension, enter it. If you're not sure what that is, dial by name and find it. If you're a new client, press one.

Tyson Mutrux 00:37:52 Because it seems to me like it could do a lot to help with with your employees and like taking a lot of stress off of them. If you could find a way for it to handle current clients and. Right. You know what I mean? Like, because like, like a lot of times the yeah, they're all pissed off.

Tyson Mutrux 00:38:07 You know, their ex has, you know, done something to make them mad. So they're calling in all angry and taking it out on your staff. That would be a huge stress relief.

Billie Tarascio 00:38:15 Oh, absolutely. That's the next version. Right. So if this version got trained to do intake, like the next version will be able to read client files and say, oh, well, the last thing we got said, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. Let me make sure I understand exactly what happened so I can tell your attorney, Heather, all about that. I'll get it over to her right now. You know it's going to happen. Paralegals may be in trouble.

Tyson Mutrux 00:38:35 They might be. And they they gotta stop. They're gonna have to stop BS in clients. That's something I've had a problem with in the past, where they're BS ING clients about things, and the AI is not going to lie to them. The AI is going to say, here's what's going on with your file.

Tyson Mutrux 00:38:48 No one's looked at your file in three weeks, and I'll make sure that an attorney looks at it, gets back to you. Kind of a thing. You're like you, right? That's one of those ones where you, you know, there's no no sorry. There's no recent activity. What do you mean, there's no recent activity? I just got a bill. You know.

Speaker 5 00:39:04 That would be bad.

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:05 That's one of those. One of those things where this goes back to the I wouldn't say necessarily equal access to justice, but it's more the transparency and justice. I think that's a good thing.

Billie Tarascio 00:39:13 Me too. Clients having immediate access to their files, to correspondence, to what's going on in their case, real time, not having to wait for their lawyer to interpret it and tell them about it is a good thing.

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:23 Yeah, I do agree with that. That's something where the proactive updates using AI. Super awesome. There's something we're building out that we're a ways away from getting it done.

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:33 But it's I, I'm kind of envisioning this thing where you have like, we have people like humans doing manual file reviews where they're going through just reviewing files. And I would love for the AI to do the same thing going through. And as opposed to doing like one monthly, you know, file review, it's a you could do a daily file review if you wanted to. That way you're like for us, like it's speed. Like injury cases. It's speed. Getting cases moving. Boom boom boom boom boom. Keeping them, pushing them down the line. And if you can do like these daily file reviews, that's incredible. I mean, you're going to be now I don't know if I'm going to do that like that often because that's a lot of tokens. You're going to be you're going to be burning through. But you know what I mean? It's one of those things where if you could do them weekly, that's a you're talking about increasing things by 44X. That's pretty awesome.

Billie Tarascio 00:40:20 Exactly.

Billie Tarascio 00:40:20 It can give clients updates. It can tell you, hey, I think you should send out a demand or have you thought about blah blah, blah, blah, blah. You may have missed XYZ.

Tyson Mutrux 00:40:27 Yeah. And then next.

Speaker 5 00:40:28 It's going to be so cool.

Tyson Mutrux 00:40:30 Oh, that part's really cool. I think that that part is, I think you're missing these things. You need to send an investigator out. At some point, it's going to be able to send out the investigator to do things. It's going to send that demand. I think there's a lot that's going to happen that there's just a lot of potential. Is there anything that that you worry about, anything that you're fearful of when it comes to the AI?

Billie Tarascio 00:40:49 No, no. I think if you are adaptable, if you are creative, if you are willing to work with whatever the right reality is, everything will be fine. But if you try to like control what's coming or what's going to happen. Like, let's be clear.

Billie Tarascio 00:41:04 Nobody knows. We're just on the right.

Tyson Mutrux 00:41:06 Totally. I do want to ask you. We thought we started by talking about things like that. You were kind of like letting go and all that from a personal standpoint. Like, have you. Is there anything that you've done from a personal standpoint where you're like, I'm not doing this anymore? Is it like. Could it be social media? It could be watching movies. I do wonder, like, have you gone that deep and started to jettison things from your personal life that you were no longer doing, so you could be more focused?

Billie Tarascio 00:41:31 That's a good question. I haven't, but I was already pretty ruthless about that. Like, I have a house manager that comes every day, every day, because I want my house to be clean and organized and I want errands taken care of. And I never want to have to think about laundry. Like, I want to be able to work and spend time with my kids. Like, those are those are the two things.

Billie Tarascio 00:41:53 That's it. Like, if it's not one of those two things, I don't really want to do it. I don't have time to do it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:41:59 I do want to say, damn you, because the whole I got in this house manager kick years ago, because of you, we tried to hire people. Couldn't find anybody to do it. And so tell me the way. Teach us the way. I even created a guide, a home manual for people to use. It's like it's all of our SOPs. And I blame you for all of this. And so how do I how do I find someone to do this? Because I think it's a brilliant idea. It's just finding someone to do it. It's been really difficult.

Billie Tarascio 00:42:30 Yeah. It hasn't been easy. Like we had one for four years. Who we really, really, really, really liked. But then she kept kind of like, I think she might have been a hypochondriac, so she kind of always thought she was dying. And then she would leave and go to Brazil for extended periods of time and like, you know, it got to the point where it's like, are we We're losing this person who has been so essential.

Billie Tarascio 00:42:50 And it took us like four tries to replace her. So I think you just got to keep trying until you find somebody, the current person.

Tyson Mutrux 00:42:57 And this is the person who doesn't live with you, right? They're just they. Yeah, they they show up like a job every day, right?

Billie Tarascio 00:43:02 Exactly. They show up like a job every day. And I hired them through the law firm. And the current person, you know, used to clean houses for Airbnb. She's great. She shows up. She does what she's supposed to like. You have to put in some time and train. But honestly, like any help is great. So I also don't expect like perfection.

Tyson Mutrux 00:43:22 So you because because of where you live your like the salary ranges and I hate I hate the salary range question because it's different based on where you live. So if you like were to classify. So instead of like asking amounts that you pay a house manager, I want to put like in categories. So you have like let's say like C-suite level, like ownership level.

Tyson Mutrux 00:43:44 And then you maybe under that, maybe you have like senior managers. Then maybe you have junior managers and then you have like maybe senior senior litigation attorneys, junior litigation attorneys, case managers, litigation assistance, you know, all the way down to like, receptionist or whatever. Like, what level are you paying a house manager at?

Billie Tarascio 00:44:03 Not a high level. This is a job where you come and you clean and you run errands. And this is not a high skilled job. Yeah. I just need you to show up every day and make sure everything that is pretty basic is taken care of. So I'm not trying to get somebody who can make high level decisions.

Tyson Mutrux 00:44:23 Do you personally personality test these people?

Billie Tarascio 00:44:25 I haven't.

Tyson Mutrux 00:44:26 I'm just curious because I was hoping you were going to say yes, because I could figure out what they what their scores are or what to look for. That's that's what I was. That's why I was asking. Because I was.

Speaker 5 00:44:35 What.

Billie Tarascio 00:44:35 Didn't work out.

Tyson Mutrux 00:44:36 We couldn't find anybody that won.

Tyson Mutrux 00:44:38 The number of people that applied very low was super low. I mean, we got like five people that applied, And and I said, well, maybe we just didn't. Maybe we didn't do a very good job of defining the role. But or maybe it was just too detailed because it was a very detailed job description. And I was like, well, maybe I'm just not offering enough money. And increasing the salary didn't make a difference. And we were. So I was kind of taking the same view that, you know, it was sort of a lower level position. So we weren't we weren't offering a ton of money, but it wasn't nothing. Right? It was it was actually decent. And I was like, you're showing up to our house and like, you're basically just taking care of the house. It's like it wasn't super complicated. It makes me think that because we kind of given up on it. It's been a few years since I've even put up a job at about it, so I maybe I should go back to it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:45:23 Maybe it's something where it was. This was also during that we were coming out of Covid kind of a thing. And I do wonder if maybe the world has changed quite a bit in the last few years. And so maybe going back to what might make sense.

Billie Tarascio 00:45:36 Yeah. Did you did you post on rt.com. Because I think you have like two categories mostly you have a mostly child care category or a mostly cleaning category, and I think you kind of have to pick one. Like, which way are they going?

Tyson Mutrux 00:45:49 I don't remember, I know at some point we were on care. And I do know that I know for a fact we were posting at one point on indeed. But and I think we might have on care, but I don't remember it. Maybe. So you think care is the way to go?

Billie Tarascio 00:46:04 Okay, so I'm glad we were talking about this because to jog my memory, I was using Caricom and striking out the way that this round worked was I went on a local Facebook group, Go Gilbert.

Billie Tarascio 00:46:14 And I said, here's what I want. That worked great. I got tons of people. This is perfect for me because these people may not even know they're looking right. The people with our the skill set that we're looking for. They may not even like be looking for a job or know that this is a job that they could do.

Tyson Mutrux 00:46:28 Interesting. Go. Gilbert. I've never even heard of. Go, Gilbert.

Billie Tarascio 00:46:31 Well, do you have something like that? Like, do you have do you have a like where do you live? Which city?

Tyson Mutrux 00:46:36 So we're in Columbia. So we moved from Saint Louis to Columbia a few years back.

Billie Tarascio 00:46:39 So is there like Columbia Community or Columbia Neighbors? Is there like a big Facebook group where people just talk about like local issues? Yeah. Try that.

Tyson Mutrux 00:46:47 Okay. You are I did I did see a, a video of you like doing something about Gilbert and I thought it was kind of interesting. I don't remember what the video was about. I remember thinking, why am I still watching this video? Because I was, like, sucked into it and there was some drama going on in Gilbert, I can't remember.

Speaker 5 00:47:05 What was it, the Gilbert goons.

Tyson Mutrux 00:47:06 I don't remember, I don't.

Speaker 5 00:47:08 Okay.

Tyson Mutrux 00:47:08 It was fairly recent and I'm like, I was several minutes into it thinking like, why am I still watching this? This makes no sense. I don't live in Gilbert. I know who Billy is, but I'm not. I don't have zero idea why. I'm still watching it to the point where I said, okay, I'm done and I turned it off. I don't even know how it ended. Nothing. But it was a it was. You were sitting outside.

Speaker 5 00:47:28 Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about.

Tyson Mutrux 00:47:30 I don't know, I don't know what it was, but it was it was interesting. But we are going to wrap things up. And what is your advice to people that we're in this very turbulent time where things are changing rapidly. Do you have any advice to people to kind of in the show?

Billie Tarascio 00:47:44 I mean, can I ask you, like, how are you staying sane with all these options and all this change?

Tyson Mutrux 00:47:50 I don't have a good answer for it, because I do feel like over the last year, things have become more chaotic for me in that I've been less.

Tyson Mutrux 00:48:01 Luckily I am. I've already got my very, fairly rigid schedule, and I've got enough people around me to help, you know, get things done and sort of pad me from. I don't check my emails and I, you know, I really take a phone call, those kinds of things. But I, I do feel that my unease has increased over the last year. I think that what's kept me saying, though, is the fact that I do have a lot of buffers. I have so many buffers around me that really protect my time. And so it's I think it really just comes out of time management. But my discomfort comes now from though having too much time on my hands where Are things. This is. I had this conversation with Jason Silk a few weeks ago, where I had a trial that continued abruptly at the last minute, and I had all of a sudden had a few days on my hands, and I was kind of like, what do I do with this? This is a weird thing.

Tyson Mutrux 00:48:52 So that that was a very uncomfortable thing for me. So I think my issue probably is more of because things are changing so quickly. And if I've got extra time, I am. It's the it's the following, that shiny object. And I'm not normally like that, but I think it's because things are changing, changing so rapidly because of that. So I don't have a great answer other than just creating a bunch of buffers, like not checking your own email, making sure people are managing your calendar, having a good executive assistant, all the same things that you're probably doing.

Billie Tarascio 00:49:22 I think my advice to people would be like, if you haven't already done like an annual plan for next year, where am I at today? Where do I want to be in a year? And what would I need to do to get there? Like if you haven't already done that, Maybe do that and then maybe resist the shiny because you have a plan.

Tyson Mutrux 00:49:42 Yeah, I would edge that onto that. Just like if you don't have a coach, I have a coach too, because that's something we're like Jason or real me on to where I'm, you know, he'll ask me like, you know, you know, on a scale of 1 to 10, where are you on these things? And if I'm at like a five, he's like, what's going on? Like, what's what are we doing here? And then we'll kind of dissect my week and my day and okay, what are you? And that having something like that that holds you accountable is pretty important.

Tyson Mutrux 00:50:04 I don't know if you have a coach or not, but I don't. Yeah. For me it's really important.

Billie Tarascio 00:50:07 Sounds like a good idea though.

Tyson Mutrux 00:50:09 Yeah, I highly recommend it. Yeah.

Billie Tarascio 00:50:10 Do you have one? You like that you'll send my way?

Tyson Mutrux 00:50:13 Yeah. I'll send you Jason's information because I think Jason is really. I mean, I've recommended him so many different people. He's he's someone that's it's it's and it's here's the thing. I'm not spending hours and hours. I spend 15 minutes a week or a month with him. It's. So it's one of those things where we jump on a call for 15 minutes. We talk about things he does offer longer ones if you need it, but I've been working with them for so long that I went from like 45 minutes. I needed 30 minutes to 15 minutes. So now we're down to 15 minutes a month. And if I need it, if I ever need something, I can always reach out to them. But it's we get on a call for 15 minutes, we check in on it like it's boom, it's quick, it's razor focused, and then we move on.

Tyson Mutrux 00:50:52 It's it's pretty nice.

Billie Tarascio 00:50:53 I like it, I like it a lot. It was so good to talk to you.

Tyson Mutrux 00:50:56 Likewise as usual. And so I can't wait to talk in another year. I know not that you and I won't talk another year, but I'm actually on the show to see how things have changed so we can compare. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go to the very first episode you did compare it to this one and see how much things have changed. That'll be a very interesting comparison.

Speaker 6 00:51:16 I bet it's a lot, but it's so good to talk to you and we'll talk again soon.

Tyson Mutrux 00:51:19 Absolutely. Thank you Billy. Appreciate it.