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A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.
speaker-0 (00:00.066)
For me the product is always the first important thing because the product has to deliver and it's just maybe a little kick that can give you in the marketing space when you are a football player or like actor or something but if the product is shit no one cares or buys it again or plays it again.
speaker-1 (00:25.006)
Welcome to a very special Eye Gaming Daily from the floor in Lisbon.
It is buzzing here. There is so much going on. And we have a very special edition of the iGaming Daily actually. We have football royalty, German football royalty in the house. Making the move into iGaming Daily. Talking about Bruussia Dorman, not Hoffenheim defender and obviously a Bay Munich defender. Now venturing into the world of iGaming. We're gonna go into all that, but Bursley, welcome to the show, Nicholas Sula. Thank you. How are you finding everything? How are you finding these settings?
speaker-0 (00:57.774)
As you said, it's the first time for me here in a place like this. For me, really, really enjoying the time here in Lisbon. I told you earlier, I was here, I think, the fourth or fifth time. And now with more time to explore the city also. But yeah, I'm here for a reason. I'm here to develop my gaming company also with my partner and really enjoying it.
speaker-1 (01:25.954)
Brilliant. Well, you know, we you are speaking about gains and your evolution in games. So I have to tell you Nicholas. when they said we've got Nicholas Sula on the pod, I said it has to be me that interviews it because I already have a relationship with Nicholas Sula because every FIFA career that I ever played, he signed for me and he was brilliant. So Thank you, R thank you, sir. Thank you. You did you did me very well. but from there I followed your career and yeah, you you had a fantastic career. I think plead to say it ended
a a little bit early because you know, you've ventured into business now. just yeah, talk to me about that trajectory that you that journey you've been off.
speaker-0 (02:03.474)
Yeah, I started playing professional since I when I was 17. I had my first Bundesliga game and I quit this summer when I was 30 so most of the people have this opinion obviously, but Yeah, I had an amazing career. I am so thankful for everything I could achieve and Now there's the next chapter in my life football gave me so much
Football gave me the opportunity to sit here and talk about businesses I started during my career. one of the reasons, of course, I stopped was I was a lot of injuries the last three years with a pretty bad ending, but also lucky ending in Hoffenheim. I thought it was the 30th matchday this season. already had in my mind maybe I
quit in the summer and then I had a little bit like a slide with my knee, thought it's over, third ACL and then I go to the MRI and it was luckily just a little bit stretched and in my mind there was the moment I said okay I want to play with my kids, I want to be healthy and do some sports and
I still play in the 8th 9th division in Germany with my friends now. Totally different type of football, but just from my experience to have this chance to play with friends is for me amazing because I played football since the age of 10 where it's not professional in the youth, but you have some competition. When I started in Frankfurt, Eindhoven.
So now I'm really enjoying it. It's just about football and maybe a beer on Sunday, you know, it's really nice.
speaker-1 (04:01.902)
Do you ever go up front now? You were always a defender, you ever go up front. Yeah.
speaker-0 (04:04.846)
I played striker and the last two games I played goalkeeper also. For me it's fun, it's all about fun.
speaker-1 (04:15.298)
I love that. And you know, I think you find this business stuff very fun as well because it's not a post career thing that you've gone into this. You you very much started this during your football career and you know, you've evolved for it to be your your main thing. But yeah, you you started in, you know, exploring with businesses and yeah, go going into business during your career, right?
speaker-0 (04:37.794)
My gaming company I started in, think, also five years ago. For me it's not working, you know, because it's something that you have a passion for or not. I always try to figure out what I can do after my career. Of course there are some different type of ways. Many players want to stay in football or want to become a coach or whatever, but I didn't saw this in my way.
I always wanted to be a little bit independent, working for my own company and build something where I can be proud of. And this is where I am currently in. We work really hard. But if it's, like I said, doesn't feel like work, it's the best feeling, you know.
speaker-1 (05:26.51)
A hundred percent, a hundred percent and so you started out your gaming company, which is called Games Leafs Games and Leafs, I love it, it's a great title. And you started out doing kind of mobile games and now you ventured into iGaming.
speaker-0 (05:41.454)
Yes, so we started with the idea of our first game, Go to League, which became our first title in iGaming, a little bit different way. It's now called Volissimo, but we have two or three more games in the pipeline now. We're working currently on it. We're working still on games also in the App Store and Android, where it's available. I hope we can soft launch our second game in October now.
and have a really, really nice team. Not the biggest team, but I think 15 people who work really, really hard in our company. And this makes me really proud to be like founder and have guys who work all together in my company. Sometimes it feels a little bit strange, you know, but it's a cool feeling. for me, it's the type of way I want to achieve the next things. It's nothing with sport, but I have big plans with...
with my second career life.
speaker-1 (06:42.67)
Nice, yes. Forgive me for the the cliche question as well. You know, you were always a bit of a leader on the pitch. You saw the game out in front of you, you you kind of dictated what was going on. How how many lessons from football and from just being around being around great managers as well and great leaders can you bring into your work life, into your business life?
speaker-0 (07:01.912)
That's a good question. get this question a lot. Of course, it's a different topic, but I think this word, what you said, leadership, is an important one because you have different types of segments what you have to do in companies also. It's like the marketing perspective, it's the developing perspective and all that, for sure.
and you have to combine everything, that every puzzle works in the other. for me, I'm still learning, you know, I get a lot in touch with it. We have every week our stand-ups, our calls where I'm part of it and learned the last five years of so many things, which I didn't knew before, you know. And for me, it's like a really nice thing.
speaker-1 (07:52.974)
This is so interesting because you could I'm sure retire or or y but you y you love this, right? This is very fun, this is very being part of the creative, this is something that really gives you a buzz.
speaker-0 (08:03.864)
Yeah, so of course it was really sad also when I stopped my career because I already said this, it gave me so much, it still gives me joy. I love football and the other part is what football gave me for my family, for my independence, know, to achieve things beside and this is for me.
where I will always be thankful for my first career life.
speaker-1 (08:38.232)
Yeah, yeah, but sure I'm how much do you enjoy now being part of being part of the cools and being part of the creative and being part of the development and coming up with new ideas and things like that?
speaker-0 (08:47.214)
You have to be honest. I didn't study, I didn't have the best school. In my head, was always football or nothing. I have kids of my own. Would I say to them, do the same like me? I don't know. Because I think my parents had to have some trouble with me. Because my answer was always, don't worry, I become football player.
Yeah, now I think if you're interested in something, if you have the courage to work on things or learn things that you never imagined, you can achieve a lot. It's not just in football, it's in every other job. If you have the drive for it, then it can happen. If you say, I just do this because I do like ha ha ha, you know.
Yeah, it's so difficult.
speaker-1 (09:47.578)
And you know, one thing that you did for sure learn from from football is about fan engagement and about, you know, what what fans enjoy obviously enjoy wins in football, but there's more to it than that, right? They enjoyed being engaged, they enjoy different things. your company right now that you specialise in kind of sports style games, right? How much do you did you take from fan engagement that you you learnt in football to you now?
speaker-0 (10:15.788)
You know, the gaming company was my second company. The first company is a gin. And I always had this feeling. And I'm not like a big, big, big football player, know, like a big star. I don't have Instagram, you know, I don't communicate with my fans online because it's not the type I am. I don't have LinkedIn. I don't have Instagram. I'm not that person. I love the...
face to face. I love to be part in conversation. I have the feeling every product for its own, maybe Cristiano Ronaldo is a different topic, but if you promote it for a short time it will have success because some people say I try it, I try it, maybe it's cool. But for me the product is always the first important thing because the product has to deliver.
and it's just maybe a little kick that can give you in the marketing space when you are a football player or like actor or something. But if the product is shit, no one cares, so we get or buys it again or plays it again. So that was always my my feeling and it's always, I was like this because I don't have the other things like Instagram or no.
speaker-1 (11:37.75)
Yes. Learn how Optimov's positionless marketing is changing how iGaming teams operate. Discover how operators are using Optimus positionless marketing platform to launch personalized CRM campaigns, dynamically change casino lobbies and bet slips and create engaging gamified experiences. Learn more at Optimove.com. It's a good point actually. I was in the Finland panel just now where the market is opening up for gambling. And they, you know, they're talking about marketing and marketing, the marketing regulations. But somebody said
At the end of the day, what is gonna win this race is who has the best product. And th you know, that's exactly what you're saying, right? You know, who can get at the for the the product to be good, the marketing will currently work so that's then it will kind of
speaker-0 (12:19.028)
And I was today, that's why it's so special, was in the arena where Michael Jordan had a speech and for me really surreal, know, that is crazy what I see now because I'm a big NBA fan also, you know, and saw him speaking up there and of course if you have a Michael Jordan for your iGaming product it helps, know, of course. But if two other companies work...
two years, three years or different suspects that the other company doesn't have. It's for sure that they say, this was the company where Michael Jordan make marketing for, but they will switch on the other company because they developed and they didn't say, okay, now we have Michael Jordan and that's it. And that's why I have this feeling it will be your reward if you still try to progress.
speaker-1 (13:13.378)
Yeah, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. I I like that mindset a lot. And let's talk about the product. so you know, the the games you've got, yeah, tell us about them. You've you know you've got you've got a good catalogue of games and you've got more to launch. yeah, tell us about these games, you you know, what sets them apart in the market.
speaker-0 (13:28.946)
So the first game, it's called Golden League, where I had the idea from a flick kick perspective, penalty, free kicks, but in a kind of different environment. So you have the possibility to shoot with a monkey in a Colosseum against, I don't know, know? And this was also the game which a company came to us and said, hey, this game has potential.
But more like they wanted to have it more in a football way, not so much this Fortnite-ish. And the second game where we are currently working on, which is also possible to build in an iGaming environment. It's a little bit difficult to tell you now because we are... But yeah, it makes a lot of fun. So I'm really proud on the team. They, every day they try their best. It's so much fun. I learned so many things.
New words, I... At beginning I thought, what are they talking about? But now, you know, I come in, even my English is okay, you know, but it's not my mother tongue. And even if I played with many players who were English, French, I always refreshed my English and French to speak. But this also is for me really nice to make a podcast in English and know some words from the gaming industry in English.
And so I developed myself and this is really nice for me.
speaker-1 (14:57.166)
Nice one, is it y your English is fantastic, but you'll have to get a whole new vocabulary for gaming, you're right.
speaker-0 (14:59.342)
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
speaker-0 (15:04.158)
This has nothing to do with school English or something like this, you know, and this is really nice.
speaker-1 (15:10.272)
And it sounds so fun and obviously you've you've taken two steps in your second career all already. You know, you've gone for a plot more with the gin as well, but in terms of the gaming stuff, you've gone from mobile games to iGaming. that's a challenge, right? Like that's not easy to do. It does it's not natural step over. but how how many cool things can you take from mobile gaming into iGaming you know keep it fun?
speaker-0 (15:37.358)
My point of view is like I would never say no to something and even the guys who are today on the stage with Michael Jordan I mean they were the founders of the biggest gaming companies there are and for example AI or something like this if you say no way it's not in my it doesn't come in my company I think this is not the
the way where we want to work on things. Because if you had to, if you would tell me, hey, you do an high gaming game in the next two years, I would say, I don't think so. It's not my plan, but as the games develop and it's go further and further, I'm really proud that we did this step because we are not just looking on one thing. We're looking in the gaming market has so much to offer, you know, there are web games.
Android, iPhone, PS5. There's so much more to see and to develop and to learn and we want to keep this open with our customers.
speaker-1 (16:48.114)
Yeah, I love it. And you you mentioned PS5 okay, can I ask you about GTA six actually? Are you gonna be it's a bit random, I know, but
speaker-0 (16:55.342)
I have to look with my kids and my wife but I try to play with my friends.
speaker-1 (16:59.627)
Nice, nice. Are you gonna get GTA six? Yeah. I can't wait. That's gonna just change gaming forever, right?
speaker-0 (17:05.006)
And I mean, there were some videos who came out. It's amazing. I've been a big fan of...
speaker-1 (17:09.079)
Yeah.
speaker-1 (17:13.438)
Yeah and and yeah this one looks so different. I can't wait. I can't wait. It's gonna set the bar. And Nicholas before you go actually what one more kind of business question. I want to ask you about your team real quick because you know you very much from a team sport, you're very much a team player. the team you have around you now sounds very strong. yeah, could you just tell us about it?
speaker-0 (17:32.43)
We have really placed in many places in Europe and on earth. We have some guys in Poland, Spain, Romania, whatever. this diversity and this togetherness is what sometimes makes me really proud, you know. Because this is also in football the same. It doesn't matter where you come from. It has to work together and once and then the outcome is important.
For me, I was this as a person and as a player. I'm a guy who say straight in your face if I have a problem or if I see something what you can do better or what you can, what would you see, what I can do better, please tell me. I don't like this stuff behind the back and you know. And I think the honesty, this was one of the reasons why I didn't like so much anymore in football because in football you...
They see you more and more as a product, not as a human. But behind every product or football club or player, there's a human being, you know? And of course, they pay you your money, but you can have something in your private life. You can have this. Why you just ask, hey, how are you? Is there any problem? So maybe I know why you have missed something out, you know? And this is what I expect from myself as a co-founder.
speaker-1 (19:00.652)
Yeah, it's really it's a really perfect point having your modern football where players are just seamless kind of disposable.
speaker-0 (19:07.416)
It's you know, it's not a stock of something. Yeah, it's a human being
speaker-0 (19:14.094)
That's what's important for me in my gaming company or in my 8th division football team now. That you have fun to come every day and there will be bad times but speak about with honesty. this is what the modern football is becoming a little bit less to be honest, which is sad, but maybe it goes in a better direction.
speaker-1 (19:41.715)
Why is that? Like what can we do to change that our curiosity?
speaker-0 (19:45.122)
I think there's so much money around this business that it has been seen more and more like a business. But at the end it's a sport, know. It's not even a single sport, it's a team sport. And for me, as I said earlier, you have to speak and you have to speak things in your face and not behind the back sometimes. And it's worked together on the problem. And that's what I try to do in my football team now in the eighth division, but also my company.
And it's not that everything in football is like this, but some more parts I have seen, it's becoming in a direction where I didn't commit anymore, know, where I didn't like. So this was also one of the reasons I said, okay, injuries. I'm not that typical guy anymore, maybe for this, like business. It's a business, right? And you see, I didn't stop for two years. I wanted to play on.
I go in the 8th division because I love football. And there's nothing about business. There's just come, play and go.
speaker-1 (20:50.87)
a beer after and it's all good. It's all good. Nice. And now I one more I have to ask you. you know diversity diversity of Bayern Munich is always very strong. Lots of players from different nationalities. Right now, so there is an Englishman leading the line for Bayern Munich. What a revelation he's been right Harry Kay fire and were you surprised that he did so well?
speaker-0 (21:12.844)
No, I played a lot of times against him. For sure, if not the best striker for me. Especially in the shooting around the 16 yard line, left, right foot, it's crazy.
The crazy thing about him is he goes back on the middle line and plays a better switch than me, maybe as a centre back. And for me, a big, big player. I'm happy for him that he found a match with Bayern and makes it his first title because in Tottenham, a player like him should win like 30 times.
speaker-1 (21:51.66)
needs to retire with a big trophy cabinet and is he gonna get a Champions League in that trophy cabinet at the end of the year, maybe?
speaker-0 (21:58.482)
I think Bayern has always the possibility to win the Champions League. Small things besides team chemistry, I want to help my teammates. They can play football, everyone can play football in their top teams. But the team chemistry, that was the reason why we won the Champions League 2020. Because we had the best team chemistry with Hansi Vlik.
speaker-1 (22:24.278)
Everything just flowed, everything's like Yeah, a hundred percent. And that's important in business too, and I'm really excited to see how this develops. I think you've got some fresh ideas, bringing a whole new perspective on the industry, whole new perspective on the game, and yeah, I can't wait to see the game. Thank you, thank you. And yeah, thank you ever so much for the time. It's it's been a pleasure.
speaker-0 (22:25.848)
Yeah, that's important in football also.