Debt to Financial Freedom Podcast Episode 3 with Dr. Dionne Payn

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Join Victor and Dr. Dionne Payn, Founder and CEO of High Impact Property Investments, for an insightful discussion on investing. https://hipi.global/

 Dr. Payn is a leading expert in her field, sharing her valuable experiences and expert advice on how to achieve double-digit returns through affordable and sustainable housing projects. Her expertise is reflected in her #1 best-selling book, E.T.H.I.C.A.L Property Investing, and she also serves as a board advisor for a not-for-profit organization that helps women access affordable housing. 

For anybody that wants to receive a copy of the book, you can use discount code LagosFinancial23 and get the book for free, you just pay $12 for Postage.

Link to order the book:

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Victor Lagos, a seasoned financial expert with years of experience working with clients to build wealth, shares his invaluable insights and strategies to help investors avoid common pitfalls that can kill their borrowing capacity. He draws from his own vast experience in the financial industry to provide practical advice and actionable tips.

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What is Debt to Financial Freedom?

Welcome to the Debt Financial Freedom Podcast. Everyone loves the benefits of money, but so many of us avoid the hard truths about saving and investing. We wrongly assume we don’t have enough time, capital or knowledge to be able to get to the point of having passive income streams, savings, or investments.The things we really need to know about money aren’t taught in schools. Spending less than you earn, maximising your income, budgeting, taxes, mortgages, investments and passive income - if you didn’t learn these things from your family, then you’re probably like most people who rely on credit cards, buy now, pay later and overdrafts. And then when you want to invest or buy property you will be wondering why you can’t get approval.But there is no judgment from me here - I was in exactly the same situation! Huge debt, poor financial habits and no assets to my name. Step by step I turned my situation around and now, as a certified mortgage broker for 16 years with several investment properties in my name, I’m here to help you go from debt to financial freedom. Because if I can do it, you can too.In this podcast, I will share tips, insights and strategies from my own journey and experience, as well as my clients and guest experts, who share my values and mission to help others create financial freedom. My goal in this podcast is to share raw, honest, transparent, and helpful stories that you can relate to, and that will inspire you to take control of your finances. The only ‘good’ debt is debt that brings you closer to financial freedom and I will show you exactly how to achieve this. Everything shared by me and my guests in this podcast is general in nature, and for education purposes only. None of your personal objectives, financial situation, or needs have been taken into consideration. I highly recommend you seek personal, financial, legal, taxation, and credit advice before you take action on what you heard on this podcast.

Victor Lagos: Welcome to the
debt to financial freedom

podcast. I'm your host Victor
Lagos, and the founder of Lagos

Financial. I've been in the
finance and lending industry for

16 years, and I've personally
made financial mistakes and

learn from them. I started this
podcast to share stories and

lessons on my own journey, and
to share insights that may help

others on their journey. And I
interviewed people that I've

connected with that share the
same values and mission to help

others create financial freedom.

My goal this podcast is to share
raw, honest, transparent and

helpful stories that you can
relate to, and inspires you to

take control of your finances
and only have debt that brings

you closer to financial freedom.

Everything on this podcast is
general in nature, and for

education purposes only. None of
your personal objectives,

financial situation or needs has
been taken into consideration. I

highly recommend you seek
personal financial, legal

taxation and credit advice
before you take any action on

what has been heard on this
podcast. Welcome to episode

three of the debt to financial
freedom podcast. I'm your host,

Victor Lagos. Today I've got a
special guest, a friend of mine,

actually we we met a couple of
years ago and we've had a lot of

conversations and I'm really
glad to meet you face to face in

person here. Dr. Dionne Payne,
welcome.

Dr Dionne Payn: Thank you. It
was good to pinch you this

morning and make sure you were

Victor Lagos: on camera. But I
want to give a quick short

intro. That's right. So Dr. The
unpinch is a founder and CEO of

high impact property investments
for short hippie. The company

specializes in partnering
investors seeking double digit

returns with projects that
provide affordable and

sustainable homes. Dan is the
author of the number one best

selling book ethical property
investing, and is a board

advisor to a non for profit
organization that helps women

into affordable homes. How was
that?

Dr Dionne Payn: That was
awesome. Awesome.

Victor Lagos: Well, can you
share your story, like what led

to what led you here to where
you are now? And I really want

to understand like, what is your
big mission and vision? I'm

aware of it but the audience
don't know.

Dr Dionne Payn: Okay, cool. All
right. I think really, then I

have to start with my mum and my
Nan. So my nan moved a both sets

of grandparents actually moved
from Jamaica, to the UK, back in

the 60s. And it was part of a
big effort to repair Britain

after the war. And as Jamaicans
that they think they thought

that it was the promised land.

And then when they got there,
the reality was, it was cold,

gray miserable. And they faced a
lot of discrimination. So, you

know, from that they my nan
always had the belief, which she

shared with with us as kids was
that we had to work harder than

everybody else to be able to get
ahead. So I'm like, Thanks, man.

I'm now really driven. So nice.

Yeah, it is. I mean, you know,
obviously, there's there's times

and places where you need to be
driven. But the other great gift

that I believe my dad gave me
was the gift of wanting to be in

service. And that just being a
very natural part of my life. My

my Nan, my granddad and that
side of the family were very

religious, Pentecostal
Christians had some interesting

sides to it. But the two things
that I really got from it were

number one, that being in
service and whatever we had been

able to share that with other
people to help them to ease

their suffering. And the other
thing was this sense of

community. And I realized that
when I did leave the church

community when I was in my late
teens, I'd always been seeking

that community until I moved to
the Byron Shire, which gave me

that sense of community that I
was looking for. But

specifically, I left the UK in
2004 2005, I moved to Australia

and did a PhD at Southern Cross
University in chemistry, which

is so different to what I'm
doing now. Dr. Title, I got my

doctor title from that. Yeah.

And yeah, well, what that meant
for me was that I had enough

points to stay in Australia, but
also being in the Bible shadow.

I was like, Well, I can't afford
to buy a home here on one income

I after I finished my PhD. I
decided to have children with my

husband. He was working I wasn't
working because I wanted to stay

home and be home with the kids.

And I just, yeah, just the one
income it was already

unaffordable like it's gone up a
lot since then, but it was

unaffordable then. So, for me
property was a way of finding,

finding a creative way to
basically understanding the game

of property. So if I could
understand how to how it worked,

then I might be able to find a
creative way to get into it. And

so I started off, I did a
mentoring course my husband and

I did that together, we found a
joint venture partner, our very

first project was actually an
affordable housing project,

although I didn't realize it.

There was a house and a studio
that was attached, we detach the

studio, renovated both
properties subdivided and sold

them separately. And that studio
was a one bedroom Studio on a

quite a large block of land. And
we sold that for under $300,000.

So in that sense, that was my
first affordable housing

project.

Victor Lagos: Awesome. man gave
me the capital to really start

the next one.

Dr Dionne Payn: Well, yeah, it
gave a guy for capital. And but

it also gave confidence in, you
know, we didn't start with

money, we had some money, which
was what we used for mentoring,

but we didn't have enough for a
deposit. But what that meant was

are we can work with other
people to achieve a goal. The

joint venture partner that we
had was great. He had lots of he

had money, but no time. And we
had lots of time, but no money.

So it was a it was a good
partnership. And so it was a

really good illustration to me
of how we could collectively

pool the resources that we had
to get an outcome that worked

for us both. And from then I did
more projects, some smaller

projects. I saw after about
doing three or four of those, I

saw a piece of vacant land,
which had development approval

for 14 one bedroom townhouses in
ocean shores. And I was a bit

gung ho to be honest with you,
in terms of I looked at, and I

was like, Well, I know how to do
feasibilities. I, I know how to

bring people together to make
this work. But it was quite a

big jump from what I've done
before to doing that. But what

actually happened was that I
found joint venture partners, we

built the 14 townhouses. Three
of them were affordable rental

housing, which meant that they
were managed by a community

housing provider, who had them
for a period of 10 years, and

the, the tenants would pay 80%
of the market rent. And then the

rest of them because they were
so small, I mean, there were one

bedroom, there were 60 square
meters. But that was an

affordable, that was an entry
price for that location. So I

actually had friends that were
able to buy into that

development, who may not have
been able to buy anything in the

area had that not been there. So
the benefit that I saw from that

was the number one I could meet
all my service needs, you know,

doing something for the
community. But also I got well

rewarded for it, we walked away
with a 25% per annum return on

investment. And look, it was a
it was a big thing. It was a big

risk, we did work to de risk it
as much as possible. But things

went wrong, the building went
broke and things like that. So

but even despite all of that, we
had something that had this

massive community benefit. And
so since then, I just thought I

can't do property any other way,
if there's not a bigger benefit

to just making money. It's not
that's why

Victor Lagos: you're not
connected. And when I heard you

the first time talking about
this, I wanted to reach out to

you because this space, and a
lot of people know this that in

property development, there's a
lot of people that are doing it

for the money. They're doing it
for themselves. They're doing it

for obviously future projects,
but they're not thinking about

the larger community and what
impact isn't making. So yeah, I

love that. And your big mission.

I mean, I don't want to spoil
it, but it is, It's big. It's

pretty

Dr Dionne Payn: hairy. Yeah.

I'll explain where that came
from. So after that particular

project, like I said, I had
bitten off quite a lot and burnt

myself out. So it took me a
little bit of time to just, you

know, sort of recoup and bring
myself together. As part of that

recuperation pro process, I
decided to do personal

development. And so for the
couple of years after that, I

did a number of personal
development courses. And there

was one where we had a task to
do, there was a group of us, I

think five of us, we had a task
to do that everybody in the

course was set the task, we were
the ones that achieve that task.

And it was it was really
beautiful because what I

recognized from that was the
power of collaboration up until

then I'd been doing things
alone, but with this group of

women, and we were able to
collaborate and what that meant

was in the times that they were
down, I was there to rally

around and cheer them up. And in
the times that I was down, they

rallied around and cheered me up
as well. So having that sort of

mutual support network was
fantastic. And from that I Yeah,

just having that power of
collaboration was really

important. And for me, that's
just the way that I wanted to

move forwards and do all of my,
all of my projects. So I ended

up meeting a developer who had a
lot of experience. And I think

that was the person that you
met, or that you heard on the

podcast initially. And we ended
up working together

collaborating together. And I
just saw that there was such a

bigger, a bigger player at hand.

And as part of this, sort of
moving from this personal

development course, where I've
met these wonderful group of

women, to meeting the developer,
I figured out that my role with

the developer was going to be
raising capital, his role was

going to be doing the
developments. But when I was

speaking to my friend, Joanna,
she said, Well, there's

something that's not you know,
that there's something that

you're not speaking what is
that? And I was like, Well, you

know, it just irks me to see
that there's so many companies

that are doing things that are
destructive for the environment

and destructive for people. And
there's so much money that gets

thrown into that arena, because
it does make money. What if I

was to divert some of that
money? Like, what if I was to

raise a billion dollars for
ethical property projects, and

it was one of those moments
where the words flew out of my

mouth? I didn't think about it.

And I was like, Can I retract
that? But you know, it's I spoke

it into existence. And, you
know, spoken to my friend,

Joanna, I spoke to my developer
colleague at the time, I was

like, We can do this. And over
time, what I found is that the

more I speak it, I've got a
book, I have put it in a book.

I've got it on my website, I've
got it in my social media posts.

The more I speak it, the more
it's actually coming to

fruition. Yeah, well,

Victor Lagos: so when is the
timeframe to hit the billion

dollar mark? December 2026,
December 2026. So you've got

just under four years?

Dr Dionne Payn: Yeah. Yeah,

Victor Lagos: I think it's
doable. Well, it's

Dr Dionne Payn: totally doable.

And one of the things that I'm
working on at the moment is

putting together a portfolio of
developers and their particular

projects in the specialist
disability accommodation in the

sustainable housing space, and
also in the affordable housing

space. And with that coalition
of projects, or curating those

projects, that's $160 million
worth of capital that's needed

to make those projects happen.

And they're all they're all
fantastic products, and they're

all going to have such a big
impact in the spaces that

they're in. And that's what
we're going to do this year. So.

So that's exciting. It is.

Victor Lagos: And I wanted to
set the audience who don't know

what affordable housing is,
could you explain what is

affordable housing? And why is
it becoming a bigger problem in

Australia?

Dr Dionne Payn: Let's start with
the problem. There's been, okay,

two things that I see. One is
that as Australians, and it's

not just an Australian issue,
but certainly here we view

property as a vehicle to
creating wealth. Fantastic. What

that means, though, is that
people that aren't in on that

secret to creating wealth
through property, don't get left

behind, because everything's
done at their expense. So as an

example, and I'm not bagging
Airbnb, per se, I stayed in an

Airbnb property last week, it
was fantastic. But when you've

got people that accumulate
properties, and then you've got

supply and demand issues, one of
the things that happened during

the pandemic was because we
realized that we could work from

anywhere. And it meant that
people in the capital cities

that were earning capital, city
money, were able to go to the

regions and then purchase
properties for the great value

for them. But then it just meant
that prices went up because the

the demand went up and the
supply didn't. So that has meant

that a lot of people either in
renting or in purchasing haven't

been able to purchase. So we're
talking about people that may

have been may have lived in that
community for a long time. And

they are now out priced. So
that's one aspect. And then

you've got the Airbnb aspect
where landlords realize, yeah,

we can make a lot of money
through renting our properties

through Airbnb, but then that's
at the expense of the community

that live homes. And so then
you've got this challenge

because the people who are
making the coffee's who are

doing the childcare who are
working in the retail shops,

they can't live in the locations
in which they work. And so even

though you get a lot of tourism
and a lot of tourism dollars,

there's actually nobody to
Really service that tourism

industry. So it's just out of
balance at the moment. And I

think that we can bring that
into balance. And I know that

there's definitely moves to
doing that. I think that the

government is starting to
recognize the scale of the

problem. And they're doing some
things about that, then they're

definitely putting more money
into creating affordable

housing, and working with
industry and super funds to make

that flow of capital more
available. But essentially, what

I see is the problem is if you
don't have a safe, secure and

affordable home, and you're
spending more than 30% of your

income on rent, and that's the,
that's the kind of benchmark for

affordable housing, then you're
in housing stress, then you're

in survival mode, then you can't
think creatively. And the

implication of that on the
society in which we live, we

then ended up with a lot of
stressed people that are not at

their best with children who
were in an environment where

parents are squabbling about
money, where there's separation,

where there's divorce, where
there's mental health issues,

this is not healthy for us as a
society. So this is the reason

that we need to change it.

Victor Lagos: Yeah, that's
powerful. And it's one of the

reasons why I started this
podcast, because, you know, it's

called that to financial
freedom. And there's many people

that have very, very low on that
spectrum. They've got that they

can't even afford their rent. So
financial freedom is, is a pipe

dream for them. They don't even
know what it is. They're just

like you said, they're in
survival. So what you're doing

is obviously, really powerful.

Because you're, you're not
thinking about how much can I

earn by accumulating more
property? It's how many people

can I serve? How many tenants
that really need homes that can

afford to live in these areas
can I provide for, and you're

collaborating with a larger
network that shares that vision

that shares that mission, and
you can make a larger impact and

you're waiting for government?

No government are helping, but
this just allows you to, to

reach more and do more.

Dr Dionne Payn: Yeah, that's
been 2%, I think it's worth

making the distinction between
different income levels. So

you've got people that are on
very low incomes. And that would

the housing requirements for
them are typically social

housing. And that's an area
where government should really

be stepping up into, then you've
got affordable housing, which is

for people that like your
essential workers, for example,

like your childcare workers,
your ambulance drivers, your

nurses, your police, that sort
of thing. So these are people

that have got really good jobs
and a decent incomes and stable,

but they're still being priced
out of the market. So one of the

they're not a developer, they're
actually a fund manager, they're

putting together a Shared Equity
scheme to help people. So

essentially, a police person
could be working in Sydney,

property prices in Sydney start
off at 1,000,001 Point 2

million, something like that. So
this farm design will look we

will chip in the 20% deposit for
you, you get your 80% loan, and

then we'll share in the capital
growth that happens over a

period of time. And so it's
taking that it's not a win lose

anymore. It's a win win. It's
like we win alongside you. And

then what that means is that
that police person can live in

the area that they work in, they
can be more present, they're not

as stressed. You know, there's
so many challenges that happen

for police, maybe sorting out
the affordable housing crisis

for police and for nurses and
what have you will lead to

better outcomes in each of those
industries and each of those

services.

Victor Lagos: Totally agree. So
that's, that's really the

solution that you're you're
working on? How can how can

people and investors get
involved in

Dr Dionne Payn: capital? There's
always a need for capital. And I

look as an example, somebody
that was looking to purchase a

home to rent out and of course,
that there is nothing wrong with

renting out property, there's
nothing wrong with purchasing an

investment property. I think the
the way that we do it now just

has to be different. The way
that we do it, rather than

squeezing every last piece of
juice out of somebody just has

to be a cable How can we do this
in a way where everybody wins.

So as an example, there are
property investments that you

can get where as an investor,
you can be earning a 10% return

per annum on your investments
and that Is that then means that

that property is cashflow
positive, it means that the

tenants are achieving an
affordable rent. And that's a

win win now that that type of
property investing, there's lots

of them that one example of them
is CO living. So that's

basically where you create a
space for create a house where

multiple people can live in that
house. And in each environment,

in each council, the rules are
going to be slightly different,

but essentially, the the amount
of money that you can get, or

the amount of rent that you can
get, because you're going to get

from four or five individual
people means that your expenses

are covered, and there's
positive cash flow there. But

each of those people are paying
an affordable rent. And I

remember the very first project
that I introduced to you,

Victor, that was the case where
though the house was being built

for four older women, each of
them were paying $250 a week, it

wasn't actually built in the
end. But the idea was, each of

them would pay $250 a week,
which meant that the cash flow

for the investor that owned that
property was was positive. So

essentially, they ended up with
more money in their pocket than

if they didn't. And in that way,
they were able to support four

people in that home. And the
impact was greater.

Victor Lagos: And yeah, I do
remember because what attracted

me was, you know, you talked
about a triple bottom line

approach. So obviously, the
financial one, that's why

investors invest, they want to
get a financial benefit. That's

the environmental. And that's
when he talked about sustainable

project, we haven't really
focused too much about that. But

obviously, everyone's aware
about using materials that are

not going to leave too much of a
carbon footprint, and, you know,

solar power and whatnot,

Dr Dionne Payn: can I just say,
I met a developer the other day,

so we're talking and I'm hoping
that they're going to be one of

my portfolio of companies.

Essentially, the homes that they
build us produce two times as

much energy as they can see. So
essentially, they could be their

parents themselves, their parent
one home, they could also power

their neighbor as well.

Victor Lagos: Wow, that's
powerful, actually. Is that

something that's already in
operation?

Dr Dionne Payn: Yeah, well
tested, already in operation all

around Australia. And the
developer, this particular

developer is in Victoria. And so
we're in talks as to how we can

scale that with them.

Victor Lagos: Yeah, there's no
real end, you can put on this.

There's so much potential you
can be I provide the materials

for other builders and, you
know, investors or homebuyers

can start to be more conscious
about who they work with, what

builders and what materials they
use. And the other part was the

social impact, right? And that's
what you talked about earlier

about community. Can you expand
on that a little bit about how

it does help a community and how
it can? how communities can work

together in these types of
projects?

Dr Dionne Payn: Okay, so I think
of the initial projects that I

spoke about the 14 townhouse
projects, and what that meant

for that particular community
were that people that had lower

incomes could actually be part
of that community, which then

means that that community is
more diverse, rather than

homogenous. In that diversity of
community, you've got people

with different skills. So you've
got artists and people that are

there to, you know, childcare
workers, for example, or care

workers for aged care, doctors
that were living by themselves

or teachers, so then it just
supports that diversity of the

community, which I just believe
is better. That's, that's a very

subjective statement. But it's,
it's like everything,

everybody's got a decent, a
different skill set. And when

you combine those different
skill sets, then so much more

can be achieved. And so I just
believe that when you provide

affordable housing for people,
and they do feel safe in those

communities, because they're not
having that stress of not being

able to pay their rent, you just
get better connections between

people. And actually what I
think is happening in the world

today, a lot of the reasons for
the issues that we have are that

there's that disconnection
between this disconnection of

ourselves, so we're not
connected with ourselves. We're

not connected with other people,
and we're not connected with the

planet. That's where I think a
lot of our problems are stemming

from so once community, or
there's a really good saying, I

can remember
Something along the lines of

community is immunity from
dysfunction.

Victor Lagos: Even that sounds
good. dysfunction. It's true.

we're social creatures, you
know, when when people were

isolated through the pandemic,
it really caused a lot of a lot

of stress and

Dr Dionne Payn: a lot of mental
health issues that I know of the

number of suicides increased.

And, and, you know, communities
were really fractured. Because

of that it became a, you know,
sort of an ash tribe and then

tribe and it just wasn't a
healthy space for us to be in.

So that's that's kind of from
the smaller level, the larger

level of the vision that I see
is in creating communities that

incorporate reforestation,
regenerative agriculture, work

home, and community right at the
center. So whether that's

community gardens, or community
centers, or food coops, that's

what I'm working towards,
because I believe that that then

does provide that reconnection
to ourselves each other.

Victor Lagos: Yeah, that's
powerful, I've recently joined a

community garden actually,
really enjoy it. Yeah, it's, you

know, you get to, you get to see
Mother Nature, again, you get to

see, contribute to something
great, it's organic garden, as

well. So got my little, my wife
and I, we've got a little plot

of land there. So we're just
going to plant some veggies and,

and some, some fruits and, and
it's, it is a community,

everybody shares with each
other.

Dr Dionne Payn: And the
beautiful thing about that is

that you plant a seed, and you
get to see how nature is so

abundant. And then you get to
share in that abundance with the

people around you as well. And I
think I'm kind of riffing here.

I don't have a formalized
thought about that. But when you

have that sense of abundance, in
a community that has that sense

of abundance, because you will
get being able to share in that

as well. I think that there's
something really magical that

happens there. And I just think
that that's what we need to

encourage that not everybody is
going to want to start a garden.

But maybe it's inviting the
neighbors in and sharing food

with them. And just having those
conversations that reaches, they

have proven that for elderly
people that are in nursing

homes, just having young people
come in and you know, sort of

sit with them, play games with
them, be with them, is really

beneficial for those older
people because they feel young,

and for the younger people
because they are able to be in

service to something bigger than
themselves. So I think it's a

good thing.

Victor Lagos: That's, that in
itself, I think needs to be

unpacked a little bit being in
service of others. It's

something that's ingrained in
all of us. But I think the way

society has been has pulled
people away from that, that, you

know, inherent want and desire
to do greater good. It's like if

if an old person fell in the
street, you would automatically

go and help them 100% There's no
part of you that says I should I

have someone look at me, like
there's no. But you know, the

way business has kind of been,
since I guess the industrial

revolution has really been about
what do they what are they call

it dog eat dog world? Or yeah,
you know, survival of the

fittest. But it's not. It's
really about how can I

contribute? How can I give more
because the more you give, the

more you receive? Yeah, that's
actually my slogan for my for my

business, or my tagline giving
is receiving, which some people

think it's strange for financial
services, business of giving his

receiving, but that's what
really changed for me, when I

started, think about that
abundance that you talked about.

It's an energy it's like, when I
when I help someone, I'm not

actually losing anything, even
if they you know, that idea that

they're taking my time or
they're taking my my energy?

Well, they will take it if you
let them by coming from a

mindset of scarcity. But if you
think no, I'm actually sharing

and I'm and I'm giving, you
know, whether it's insights, a

new connection just by
introducing them to someone,

even just listening to someone
like not listening and thinking

about what you're saying next,
but actually feeling what

they're feeling, right? Feeling
that emotion, that and that in

itself is giving. And then if
you know that the more you give,

the more you receive, then it is
abundant. Same way when you're

planting, right plants help out
other plants, right, please help

us. We help them, right. It's
like that and you just got to

tap into it and I want more
people to become aware of that.

and just practice it. Because
the more you practice it, the

easier it gets. And the more
natural it is. And all you're

doing is going back to how you
are anyway, deep down, right?

Yeah. Do you do find yourself,
you know, operating from that

every single day when you when
you get up? Do you think you

know what, how can I give to the
How can I contribute? Or do you

have to remind yourself
sometimes

Dr Dionne Payn: I have a
practice, that is when I get up

and I sort of do my meditation
practice. And I actually have to

say, I didn't expect this
conversation to go this way

today.

Victor Lagos: It's a natural
conversation.

Dr Dionne Payn: I was like,
don't be too woowoo do don't be

too Okay, so I am not some I'm
not some guru. I'm not some

spiritual side or anything like
that. I do have a practice. And

as part of that practice, it's
how can I give today? And how

can I receive today? Because
it's it's both sides of the same

coin? Yeah. And it's not natural
to me to operate this way. It's

a it's something that I'm
practicing. Yeah.

Victor Lagos: Well, yeah. So
you're training yourself to do

that every single day. And, you
know, because obviously, things

happen throughout the day,
right? Something that sort of

knocks you out, you know,
feeling the best version of

yourself. So it's good to have a
daily practice to sort of center

yourself and bring yourself back
into that into that energy.

Dr Dionne Payn: And I shared
with you, off camera, an

experience that I had recently
where I decided that I wasn't

going to work with somebody. And
it really was because they were

coming from that scarcity place.

And unwilling to look at, well,
how can we all win, it was very

much a, I'm going to win, you're
gonna lose, and that that

framework just cannot work going
forward. So I'm not just talking

about that particular potential
client. I'm just talking about

life in general.

Victor Lagos: And it is a shift
that we're going through at the

moment. Yeah, people have
thought that that's what was

required to be successful,
someone else has to lose, you

need to win, someone has to
lose. Obviously, the focus isn't

how can I make other people
lose? They're just focused on

themselves, how can I win? But
if you think how can everybody

win? Then you can say no to
people, you can say no to

opportunities, doesn't matter
how much money it's going to

bring you because it's not about
that money. Come Money comes and

goes right flows, right? It's,
they call it cash flow, not cash

accumulate and not spend. I did
want to ask you, because the

podcast is called debt to
financial freedom. And I, you

know, I have a meaning of what I
believe financial freedom is,

but I want to ask my guests
what, what is the definition of

financial freedom to you?

Dr Dionne Payn: Good question.

In the context of what we spoken
about, it is about abundance.

And it's not necessarily the
amount of money that you have.

It's just that feeling of I have
enough. Yeah. And I'm being

provided for. Yeah, yeah, it is
definitely feeling and so, you

know, from that space, you don't
have to come from bull. How do I

get get gift? It's, you know,
like I was saying before, how

can I give? How can I receive?

How do I stay open to all of
that? Yeah. So, you know, in,

in, you know, modern world, our
understanding of financial

freedom is having a decent car,
having a home, being able to go

on holidays. I'm not saying
like, I'm not a nun, I love all

of that, you know, I love my
little 2019, Toyota Corolla

hybrid. And I love the fact that
I get to spend time visiting

family visiting friends going
and seeing different places. I

love the fact that, you know, we
live in a gorgeous place in in

the Northern Rivers. But there's
a point where it's, it's, it's

not. You know, I'm not saying
that everything in my life is

sorted either. But it's, it's
how do I operate from that space

of not fear? Operation, that
space of there is enough, and

there are resources around me.

And if I don't have those
resources, I can find somebody

to collaborate that does.

Victor Lagos: Yeah, I love that.

You, you really tackling that
sort of motion or that fear

inside that I can't do it? Well,
if you can't, then do you have

the resources around you? And if
you don't, then what can you do

to find those resources? Right.

And it's always about
collaboration. Yes. It's, it's

not about doing it on your own.

Right. It's about having good
people around you. Exactly. And

it is a journey to find the
people. I mean, that's why you

and I connected because we had
so much synergy there. And I

think you actually mentioned
what the story I shared with you

in your book then. Oh, yes. Oh,
you found it. Yeah, I won't go

into too much detail. I did
share it on Episode One. Oh,

about, you know, my wire and my,
my parents and what they went

through, and I am bringing
another guest on, I can really

share a bit more details around,
you know, people losing when it

comes to property, because it is
such an emotional buy. And there

are people out there that really
take advantage of people that

that are focused on that
emotion, they want to provide

their family that for their
family, they want to set

themselves up for retirement.

But then the people that are,
you know, selling to them are

not thinking about them, they
think about themselves. And

Dr Dionne Payn: there's a level
of financial literacy that we

all need to have. And we don't
get taught that in schools. And

so then we have to take the
responsibility to find that for

ourselves. I read Rich Dad Poor
Dad a long time ago. And I was

like, Yeah, that's interesting.

It wasn't until recently where I
read it again. And I was like,

How did I miss this, you know
that his whole thing is buying

assets that generate cash flow,
exactly, my twist on that is

buying assets that have impact
and generate cash flow. And I

love

Victor Lagos: that you're not
just focused on the cash flow.

Yeah. And that's why for me,
when I talk about financial

freedom, it is about buying
assets that create cash flow,

and it's not 100% passive, but
it is reasonably passive. And

that just means that you don't
have to trade your time and

labor for the money. And like
you said earlier, when it comes

to you know, we have to survive,
a lot of people were in that

survival state. It's because
we're in a society where we have

to pay to live, like, as soon as
you're born, like, you don't

feel like because you're
dependent child, but your

parents having to work and they
have to provide, you know, the

shelter and the food. And if
your survival. Instincts are

kicked in, you're not able to be
creative. You're not thinking

about how you can give you
thinking, how can I? How can I

live and survive the next day?

Alright, so I like this, this
definition. And I heard it

recently, it's, it's a simple
way of understanding financial

freedom I heard it from from
Tony Robbins. And he said, it's

about building a money machine,
a money machine that will let

you do what you do, without
having to work. That's it. It's

not like you're not going to
work. But you don't have to

work, right? Because I used to
explain away enough passive

income to replace your living
expenses so that you can, you

know, be your best self. It's
still the same thing. But I

think it just makes sense. Like,
you don't have to sacrifice your

lifestyle, but let you do what
you do. But you don't have to

work. If you don't have to, you
can do what you do. You can have

a big mission and vision to you
know, to help the world to help

the community and collaborate
with others to think the same

way. So

Dr Dionne Payn: there's a great
quote, I can't remember who it

is, I think it might have been
Jim Collins, but it's along the

lines of the more people that
you help, the more money that

you will make. Yeah, and it
answers that.

Victor Lagos: You can have
everything you want in life, if

you help other people get what
they want. Yeah, that's it.

Yeah. Love it. So true. Well, I
want to ask you, how can people

find you?

Dr Dionne Payn: Well, I'm pretty
active on LinkedIn. So if they

do a search for me, Dr. Dione
Payn. I do also have a website,

which is hipi.global. And I know
that you're going to be placing

links into the show notes. So I
can provide some information for

you there as well. And for
anybody that is interested in

ethical property investing, I'm
very happy to share a copy of my

book. And we can make that
available through your show

notes.

Victor Lagos: Awesome. That's
very generous of you. I know you

sent me a copy, and it was
signed. So thank you for that.

So I'll put the I'll put the
notes in, in the show notes.

I'll give the link. So anyone
who wants to get a copy of

ethical property investing,
you'll be able to order that

with a specific link. Will it be
a physical copy or a PDF?

Dr Dionne Payn: It will be a
physical copy. As long as

somebody's happy to pay for the
postage, there can be a physical

copy. Awesome. Yeah, I love it.

There's something great about
holding.

Victor Lagos: I agree. Right?

Yeah. So old school, but it's,
it's powerful. And you know

exactly where you left off as
well. Exactly. Gonna get back to

it. Well, I want to say thank
you so much for coming today. I

really appreciate that you came
all the way from Byron region.

So it's a bit of a distance to
Sydney, but always lovely to see

you. Looking forward to
collaborating with you and again

in the future.

Dr Dionne Payn: Yeah. Thank you.

And thank you for all of your
belief in the work that I've

been doing. And once he
mentioned that we bonded because

of that shared vision. And I'm
really happy to have you as part

of that journey. So thank you.

Victor Lagos: Yep, Me too. I'm
really happy and this is going

to watch this space because Dion
and I are going to work on

another project, and I'll
mention in the future I'll see

you soon. All right.

Dr Dionne Payn: Thanks, Victor.

Victor Lagos: Well, if you've
enjoyed that, please like us on

our socials and stay tuned for
the next episode.