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USDN Podcast is a cinematic indie comics interview series hosted by the USDN_Chairman and the Council of Nerds spotlighting the creators, storytellers, and worldbuilders shaping the future of independent comics.
Each episode dives beyond headlines into the real journeys behind the books from Kickstarter launches and creative struggles to the philosophies driving today’s indie storytelling movement.
This isn’t about rumors or recycled news.
It’s about the people creating the worlds.
Through in-depth conversations, creator spotlights, and crowdfunding discussions, USDN explores:
• The rise of indie comics
• The business of crowdfunding
• The art of worldbuilding
• The realities of independent storytelling
USDN is where indie comics come to life for the fans, by the creators, and powered by the community.
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Thanks for watching!
What is up, everybody?
And welcome to a bright early Saturday
morning edition of the USDM podcast.
And as always, I am the chairman.
But what happens when you take one of
the greatest stories ever told and
reimagine it for a universe that no longer
fears the ocean?
but the void.
Today we're diving into a project that
transforms the Odyssey into a sci-fi epic
where gods are replaced by systems and
distance is measured in light years.
The Council of Nerds is now in session.
In returning,
because he's a glutton for punishment,
is Bruno Caterino.
Welcome back, buddy.
Hello.
How are you?
We're doing good over here.
Happy to always have you on.
I know we just missed a Kickstarter with
you two of them, actually,
because we have been that busy.
And that's a good thing, right?
We were just talking about that.
But let's dive into this and why the
Odyssey and why now?
Oof.
So I just have to say before going
into that,
that the thing that you wrote and the
way you wrote it,
I think you wrote that even better than
I would write to promote my own book.
I'm just saying that.
I'll send it your way.
Yeah.
I mean, that, that was, that was great.
Really.
It was a great intro.
Uh, why the Odyssey and why now?
I mean, very much kind of like, uh,
in a way what you said,
but I can expand on that.
But it's I think I mean,
we have the Christopher Nolan movie coming
up, so it's like, you know,
We don't need another Odyssey, do we?
And the thing is,
I think we still do because it's a
timeless story that has been told
countless times anyway.
It has even been told as sci-fi,
which I didn't know,
but of course it has.
Yeah, there's like a cartoon called,
I don't know, Ulysses something,
or whatever.
I didn't know it.
I haven't watched it yet.
I kind of want to,
but I still haven't watched that.
But it has to be told many times.
But I think the reason why I wanted
to tell it was I wanted to make
it for current audiences.
And like you said in the beginning,
right now, the ocean,
at least at the surface level,
doesn't have any more mysteries, right?
We know...
we have the world mapped out.
We know what is everything we have
explanation for pretty much everything
that happens.
That's weird.
So it doesn't have that mystery that the
oceans had in ancient times.
And that's why space,
I think it makes sense to tell this
story in space because that still has
plenty of mysteries.
There's still a lot of phenomenon that we
don't know.
And there's yeah.
So that's kind of the reason.
Also, you know,
because the gods of the Olympus,
it kind of makes sense to...
I don't know, for me,
they were oligarchs of that era, right?
They were the people who made all the
decisions.
And yes,
technically they had powers or sort of
because they were gods, but...
I feel like nowadays,
like the rich and powerful, you know,
I mean,
we call them rich and powerful for a
reason, right?
They have power over the world.
And that's kind of what I wanted to
get into.
I want to tell this story in this
world, if that makes sense.
No, I like that, dude.
That's a great explanation.
So what do you think the Odyssey
represents to a modern audience?
I don't know.
I mean...
I think we talked about this before.
I mean,
I like to tell stories for myself,
you know,
stories that I think I will enjoy to
write.
And then hopefully the audience will come.
What does it represent?
I mean, for me...
It represents... No, I mean,
I'll start with that.
For me,
it represents that when I was a kid,
I saw a cartoon about the Odyssey and
I loved it at the time.
I think it was the first VHS that
I saw in my life was the Odyssey.
Yeah.
This was, you know, I was really small.
And ever since, I really like the story.
And I think that's kind of what it
means to me is that that has that
connection to, I don't know,
childhood and, you know,
the first let's put it movie that i
saw you know outside of cinema and outside
of tv just normal tv i think it
was probably the odyssey for modern
audiences i i mean i i don't know
i think that the the movie now uh
the nolan movie is probably going to get
a lot of attention from people it's going
to make a lot of people
enjoy the story again,
but I'm guessing that a lot of people
probably don't know the story outside of,
you know, the myths.
You know,
there were several movies that already
kind of did the movie,
but I don't think modern audiences right
now are like, you know,
we really love the Odyssey.
The Odyssey is like the best IP ever,
you know.
It's not like it's... You know,
it's not like it was...
I'm dating myself, but it's not like,
you know, Twilight several years ago,
right?
It's not that big that everybody...
Probably not the best example to use on
that one.
Hey, people loved it.
I was not one of them,
but people loved it.
I'm going to have to add the sparkler
fit behind you now.
Go for it.
But do you think myths are meant to
evolve over time, such as space?
What do you mean?
Sorry?
Are myths meant to evolve over time?
I mean,
the Odyssey is based on a myth of
these gods.
Are those meant to evolve over time,
you think?
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I think the myths are...
how much in trouble do i want to
get but you know if we think about
you know even religions all religions
we're talking about you know uh greek uh
you know later the the romans was it
later or was it yeah it was like
i don't remember that timeline so romans
they pretty much had the same gods right
so the myths were kind of the same
they just gave them different names you
know uh
christianity or uh you know um every every
religion has their own myths and they are
a product of time they are a product
of there are stories people tell based on
you know the values of the time and
then that kind of you know reaches through
time and you know gets to you know
our generations and further and
And, but we still try to, I guess,
I guess when,
We see it from a different prism,
if that makes sense, right?
Not making any sense with this
explanation.
But yeah, the myth is even the Odyssey,
when it was originally written,
or the Odyssey is said to not have
been originally written,
it was verbally passed on.
So by the time that it was written
by Homer,
or
People don't even agree if it was Homer
or not.
But by the time it was written by
Homer, it was not the original version,
probably.
And all the translations we got, you know,
this is not the original, right?
This is a translation.
And I have another translation over there.
So, you know,
it's still not the exact thing.
And you kind of reinterpret it.
through your goggles, if that makes sense.
I did not respond to your question.
No, no, you answered the question twice,
actually, just two different ways.
There you go.
I always give more than...
You gave the Bruno answer.
That's what that's going to become.
When you answer the questions in different
ways, it becomes the Bruno answer.
It's going to become a verb.
You're Bruno-ing the answer.
Exactly.
It's already a verb now.
It's done.
Are we replacing mythology or revealing
what mythology looks like today in this
story?
A little bit, yeah.
I think, you know,
the whole thing about the gods being
holigarchs, that's definitely, you know,
different.
I kind of still want to stay truthful
to what each character is.
So, you know,
their personalities and all of that,
I kind of want to stay true.
And that's, you know,
the reason why I showed you the book
is that I'm rereading it because I want
to make sure that, you know,
I'm accurate enough to change it or that
I remember it well enough to change it
in a way that makes sense for people
and that people are not like, oh,
you ruined it.
This is not like the original.
What do you do with the Nolan movie?
We still don't really know.
We know it's the Odyssey,
but we don't know the themes and the
concepts and that kind of stuff in the
story yet.
That is true.
What version is Christopher Nolan going to
give us of the Odyssey?
Yeah, I guess that is true.
I guess, yeah,
we didn't get much about the story.
Yeah.
We got this, what, ten,
fifteen second teaser that kind of showed
the major stars in the movie.
But we still don't really know a whole
lot about it.
I mean, yeah,
we can sit here and say, yeah,
we know what the Odyssey is meant to
be.
But what is it meant to be to
Christopher Nolan?
Yeah, I think that I think you're right.
I think that makes sense.
Yeah.
And, yeah, I mean, picking up on that,
for me, yeah, I mean,
it's meant to be a story where,
you know,
one man kind of has to go through
insurmountable odds to kind of just,
you know, return home.
One thing that I kind of try not
to do is to,
and this will come up,
is that Odysseus is not a good man,
in a way.
He's always portrayed as a good man and
he's, you know,
he's
He's better than most during his time,
but he was still very kind of a
violent person.
He was smart in war,
but he would still waging war.
And it's very much about, I guess,
going back to the myths question,
it's kind of how we make something a
myth, but in reality,
it's a little bit different.
It's a little bit darker underneath.
And I think...
that's one thing that i want to get
out of the story is that odysseus even
though he's a hero is not flawless he
does have his flaws uh yeah same for
other characters so yeah that's kind of
how I would like to,
or how I'm tackling the story,
if that makes sense.
And that's what we're getting into right
now.
I'm glad you brought that up.
So when you started building Space
Odyssey,
what was the first visual or idea that
kind of clicked for you when you were
preparing this?
Oh,
it may have been the Wall of Troy.
May have been.
Such a beautiful visual.
Even in the movie and everything else,
that is just such a beautiful visual to
have.
Yeah.
And I think in the book especially,
I always had this idea of a planet.
So Troy being a planet.
And so this image is public.
It's actually the main Kickstarter image.
So you can check.
If you check in the Kickstarter,
you'll see the image that I'm talking
about.
And it was that...
invisible sort of energy wall around the
planet and that's kind of what made me
think what made me start writing this was
having like this visual of what if right
what if troy was a planet what if
there was a wall
around the planet that's just energy.
And, you know,
there's like this huge armada going
against the planet, you know,
everything thrown at it and it doesn't
make any dent in it.
So that was kind of the initial image
and then everything came after that.
And Erwin,
who is the artist who I'm really lucky
to be able to work with in interior
because he's a really hard guy to get
to do interiors.
He did it brilliantly.
That image is gorgeous.
I mean, the whole book is gorgeous.
And we're going to talk about them here
in a little bit,
but let's focus on the world building
right now.
How did you approach transforming Troy
into a planet?
And you just touched on it a little
bit.
What makes it feel unique instead of
just...
earth in space so to speak even though
earth is in space but what was the
beginning of the question sorry i missed
that um how did you approach transforming
troy into a planet okay okay um i
mean i i i don't know i think
that was kind of
the genesis of it, right?
I think it's just, you know,
I don't know how it is for you,
but for me, ideas just pop in.
I mean,
just the other day I woke up with
an idea for one of the superheroes in
the world of Flame Vault.
And I just spent that day writing like
an outline for that story because it just
popped into my head and just wouldn't
leave me alone.
And I put it down on paper or,
you know,
digitally, whatever.
But if I put it down,
if I write it down,
it kind of leaves me alone and I
know I'm not going to forget it.
And I think Troy was like that.
It was like this thing in my head
that I took notes on and I was
like, okay,
I can probably use this someday on
something.
But I probably didn't even think it was
The Odyssey.
I don't know.
I think originally I didn't think of...
I'm going to adapt this because of that
reason, right?
It had been adapted so many times.
Why would people want to see a version
of the Odyssey written by me?
And it was just when I had other
elements, Athena being an AI, for example,
that sort of thing.
After having all these other elements that
I thought, okay, you know what?
I feel like I actually have something
to say here different from what has been
done before.
So yeah,
it's sci-fi and this going back to the
second part of your question.
So yes, it's sci-fi.
Yes, it's in space, but then there's,
you know, thematically,
I also want to bring it to today's
audiences.
I want to, yeah, I mean,
going back to the whole, you know,
oligarchy of things and all of that, it's,
I don't want to make it easy.
I don't want to make it like, oh,
it's the gods,
the gods do this and all of that.
It's like, no, there's a reason.
There's dark intentions in the characters
for things to happen.
Odysseus doesn't go home because someone
has a grudge against him and does
everything to stop it.
And Odysseus does make some mistakes as
well that kind of backfire on him.
That sort of thing.
Yes.
It's nobody's perfect.
Unlike in myths where you have like
perfect hero,
nobody's perfect in this story.
And that was just a really good segue
because the Odyssey,
the original Odyssey is about a journey
home.
How does that emotional core translate
when the distance is light years instead
of oceans?
I mean,
it's still very much a journey home.
So that part is not going to change.
I mean,
adapting a story and removing some of the
core elements, that's not going to work,
in my opinion.
But yeah, being light years, I guess...
You know, they have the technology,
the ships, they have technology to travel.
There's stuff coming up on future issues
that I cannot talk about that goes beyond
just using the usual trope of hyperspace.
So there's, you know,
how they get through long distances.
But yeah, I mean, again,
it's going back to making the technology
they have in this world as advanced as
it is.
It's the equivalent to in ancient times,
someone having a boat.
That's kind of it.
The speed that the boat would allow them
to reach and how long it would take
them to go from point A to B.
is usually how long they would take from
point a to b in light years but
with the technology they have so that that
doesn't really change everything changes
but the distance the scale is just yeah
if that makes sense
No, it makes a hundred percent sense.
So how do you balance staying?
Oh, let me rephrase.
That's the next question.
But what were the biggest challenge in
adapting something so well known into
something that still feels fresh?
Oof.
I don't know.
I mean,
we'll know after we know how it's
received, right?
Exactly.
But how's the pre-launch going right now?
Sorry, what's that?
How's the pre-launch?
That would give me some indications.
Yeah, I mean,
I think we are on something followers,
which is pretty good.
It's not bad.
I mean,
I had it up for a while,
so it's been, you know,
several weeks of people finding it.
But still, it's really good.
I pushed for it initially,
but I haven't pushed ever since Family and
Honor.
So my previous,
a different project has been,
I've been focusing on that.
So I haven't been pushing the Odyssey,
and still the numbers have been growing a
little bit.
So yeah, that's been good.
Good.
So how do you balance staying true to
Homer's themes while still making this
your own story?
I mean, outside of the sci-fi elements,
of course.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, there's a funny thing from –
i went on reddit and asked you know
some questions in literature groups groups
and stuff like that uh for example
dangerous place dangerous place dangerous
place so for example one of the things
is i want to read the odyssey again
because i so i wrote the first issue
without uh almost from memory and without
you know going too much into the actual
literature i want to
do that for the further issues but for
issue one i kind of just wanted to
have like a clear mind
So I went to the Reddit groups to
ask what is the best or what is
a good translation to read for a modern
audience?
And I specifically said I'm not looking
for accuracy because I'm adapting it in
space.
So I'm not looking for accuracy.
I'm looking for it's easy and nice to
read multiple times because I'm going to
have to read it multiple times.
And
the answer was often, well,
if you're not making it accurate,
then what's the point?
Which is like...
You just completely missed the point,
person.
Yeah, it's not an adaptation.
In an adaptation, you actually change it.
Especially if you're doing it as an
entirely different genre.
So yeah, I mean,
Actually answering your question,
I'm Bruno-ing again.
It would be an episode of Bruno Caterino
if there was no Bruno-ing.
There you go.
Yeah, I mean,
what was your question again?
How do you balance staying true to Homer's
themes while still making this your own
story?
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
Yeah, thank you.
I completely went on a tangent.
Yeah, I mean, that's it.
I mean,
I am trying to go through the books
again,
make sure that I get fully the message.
But in terms of the teams,
I'm trying to not be too constrained by
the books.
I definitely want it to be about the
journey.
I definitely want it to be about...
um you know uh a man against the
odds if that makes sense about you know
in this case not gods but pretty much
gods because it's you know men who control
the galaxy uh
But yeah, but I want to,
I definitely want to make it my own.
I don't want to be constrained by what
came before because otherwise, I mean,
we're going back to the same, right?
What is the point, right?
If I'm telling the story in a way
somebody else has, what is the point?
And I think with this,
it's one of those things where as long
as you hit the big themes from the
Odyssey, you've done it right.
Yeah, I mean,
if you hit the heart of the story
and that's it, I mean, it's a man,
it's about, you know,
it's a man who wants to return home.
That's it.
You kind of like, you know,
the whole home is where the heart is,
that sort of thing.
It's kind of that it's like making.
as long as that part stays,
I think everything else is fair game.
I mean, I can have space pirates,
for example, and I'm going to, uh,
you know, kind of got to, I mean,
if you're going to be in outer space,
you have to have space pirates.
Of course.
Um, so yeah, it's, you know,
you're going to have, uh,
Yeah, I mean, you don't have magic,
you have science.
So, you know, there's all these things.
But it's still about the man trying to
get home to his wife and to his
kid.
And it's still about a kid trying to
look for his father and making sure that,
you know,
his homeland is safe from men who want
to destroy it.
So it's still about those things.
Mm-hmm.
So is there a specific scene or a
moment from within the original Odyssey
that you were most excited to reinterpret
in a sci-fi setting?
Unless it's going to give away the story,
then don't do that.
I mean, we know the story, right?
Yeah, I mean, the story is the story.
But I don't know.
I don't know.
I remember from the cartoon,
from the original cartoon that I watched,
the sirens scene,
where he's kind of tied to the mast.
Yeah.
I am trying to,
I have some very strong ideas how to
do that scene.
Yeah.
But I'm still very undecided.
So we'll see.
But that's one that I'm really excited
about.
So what kind of tone are you aiming
for with Space Odyssey?
Is it gonna be more grounded sci-fi?
Is it gonna be an epic space opera?
Or is you going for something kind of
like in between the two?
Yeah, probably more in between,
but depending to the serious side.
So I pitch it as the Odyssey in
space in a galaxy far, far away.
It's a clear reference to Star Wars,
but it's probably closer to Star Trek,
if that makes sense.
It's a little bit more... Yeah,
it's a little bit more mature sci-fi.
And like I said, there are serious themes.
You know, Odysseus is not... It's not a...
good man on today's standards is just
better than everyone else,
if that makes sense.
No, a hundred percent.
So when readers pick this up and read
it,
what do you want them to feel when
they finish issue number one?
Where's issue number two?
I always hit you with that one.
You can't use my answer.
Okay.
No, but I think it's...
I think they...
So issue one is very much about Odysseus'
son Telemachus kind of just going to...
Basically meet Nestor, I forgot, Pylos.
He's going to Pylos to try to figure
out where his father is.
And very much it finishes with... Well,
I'm not spoiling it, but yeah.
It's...
It starts at the beginning of the journey,
and I want people to feel like that.
I want people to feel like, oh,
this issue was good,
but I can't wait for what's coming next.
Not necessarily issue two,
but this is the beginning of a journey.
Let's see where that journey takes us.
And there are some pretty big surprises
that are deviations from the original.
I'll say this.
And I think you have to have some
deviations,
because if you try to do it word
by word, you're looking at, you know,
a hundred issues, kind of a comic book.
Yeah.
And that was the other thing.
My original intention was to do it as
sixteen issues,
which first was an odd number to do
as comics,
because when you want to collect it, it's,
you know, five, five, six.
It's weird.
But also,
even when you look at titles from,
you know, Image, Boom, etc.,
All over the place.
You don't see a lot of series going
beyond the ten issues.
So it's like, you know what,
let's be more realistic.
Let's maybe aim for ten issues.
And when you pick up their trade
paperbacks now,
it feels like trade paperback number one
will have three issues and some bonus
material.
Trade paperback number two may have five
issues and some bonus materials.
and you're like where's the consistency
with this because there's not any anymore
it feels like trade paper bats are all
over the place so like are we just
doing this all willy-nilly now and just
not finding a balance are they just
rushing um to get the trade paper back
out you know yeah yeah yeah so it's
kind of wild it's been really wild in
that perspective because i've seen so many
of them do it currently
Yeah, I mean,
I do plan to be consistent.
So, you know, five-five.
But yeah,
I do feel the need to reduce it
and to... Yeah,
it's going to be a much shorter story
to, you know, I'm sure that my...
I'm just going to say the word,
my fans in the literature groups,
that I'm sure there are many in the
classic literature groups,
are not going to enjoy it because I'm
going to change words.
Yeah, no, I mean...
It's kind of wild in that respect, right?
That you're trying to do an interpretation
of a story in comic book format,
but yet they're going to get all,
you know, tussy, if you will,
over the fact that you cut out elements
of the story.
Well, yeah, you kind of have to.
Yeah,
and there are things that I'm changing the
order.
For example, the Lotus Eaters.
going to put that much later in the
story because it doesn't make sense
narratively uh where issue two goes it
makes sense to go directly to i'm not
spoiling it but but uh it makes sense
to go to jump lotus eaters it makes
sense to go to
something else later on also because you
know the i think the problem with the
odyssey and i can't believe i'm saying
this but you know the problem is that
it's audiences today are very used to a
certain kind of narrative that you know
has a beginning middle and end and you
should have an inciting incident by a
certain point right yeah and i feel like
the inciting incident of the odyssey is
when he blinds uh the cyclops you know
that is kind of the inciting incident that
makes Poseidon be against him and all of
that.
I can have that happening three or four
issues in.
So it makes sense to move things around
to make sure that I'm telling the story
as close to the original as I want
to,
but also in a format that people will
appreciate.
it doesn't feel like it's you know uh
meandering and rambling like i am right
now ah you're good man let's talk about
the creative team a little bit on this
and so you're working again with erwin and
matthias how has that collaboration
evolved as this is you know they've worked
with you on several projects now terrible
people such such terrible people
No, they are amazing.
And yeah, Erwin,
we did Cinematic Figments,
one of the stories.
And Matthias,
he's done several of my books as well.
But it works really well with Erwin.
His letters look gorgeous in his artwork.
So it makes sense to keep them together.
Yeah, and this book, I mean,
I always imagined Irwin doing it.
That was the dream.
And I'm including, you know,
top artists from, you know, Marvel, DC.
I would still choose Irwin, seriously.
His style is just perfect for this.
Yeah,
but he was not doing a lot of...
sequential work he usually does mostly
covers and stuff like that so i was
like i'm not gonna get him i'm not
gonna get him and then i asked he
said yes and i'm like oh okay uh
so yeah um but yeah it's it's it's
wonderful to work with them they i think
we got to a point where they really
understand where i'm going for uh and
whenever they make changes it's you know
always to improve they they yeah
So it's, I don't know,
I think it just got natural to the
point where we work really well together.
And I think it shows in the book.
I think, I mean,
I think even Erwin said something about
how proud he was about the work he
did.
And he should,
because the book looks amazing,
beginning to end.
I mean.
So what were some of the, dude,
that's freaking amazing.
Dude, I love the colors on that.
And so y'all worked together on Cinematic
Figments.
What did you learn from that book that
you kind of brought over into this project
with him?
I don't know.
I mean,
because Cinematic Figments was the first
book that I started working on,
I feel like I learned a lot about
how to make comics.
And I released books before Cinematic
Figments that I actually learned how to do
those books from Cinematic Figments,
if that makes sense.
Yeah.
No, no, a hundred percent.
But I mean,
I don't think I learned anything specific
for the case of working with Erwin and
Mathias.
I think it was more in, you know,
how do you make comics, really?
I think for the sake of this,
trying to keep,
because of Aaron's artwork,
trying to keep panels or a number of
panels,
a reduced number of panels per page works
really well with him.
Doing double page spreads, you know,
I wanted to do it anyway because this
is a epic and in an epic you
want to have, you know,
art shine and come true and all of
that.
But I think
his artwork it works really well to to
give him space to you know to do
his thing and I try to do that
in this book so what makes this project
more ambitious than what you've done
before what makes this project more
ambitious well
Oh man, do we want to go there?
So the thing is I'm,
so I'm getting to a point where keep
making more.
So making a book is expensive and I
want to keep making books,
which is expensive.
Uh, so I dunno,
I feel like I need to start pushing
for making more money back from stuff.
So it's ambitious in terms of goals that
I'm going to set in terms of the
Kickstarter.
I'm aiming...
I don't know how to put this,
but I'm aiming for failure.
As in, not expecting to fail,
but I am setting myself a goal where
failure is possible.
I think that's...
It's more ambitious in that case.
In terms of story,
it's ambitious as any series.
It's...
it's much easier to do a one shot
or an ontology.
It's much harder when you do like a
longer series.
And, you know,
especially when you're doing a series like
the Odyssey, which, you know,
is gigantic and has been told several
times,
you kind of want to make something
different.
So all of those are challenges,
but I think, you know,
I don't want to put it like this,
but I think I've been doing it for
long enough and I've been working with
wonderful people who have been doing it
for long enough that I think the work
we can deliver,
we can put the stuff out there.
It really is, you know,
can we make enough back to make,
you know,
issue two and issue three and issue four
and, you know,
go all the way to issue ten.
Which we can.
It's just how long it will take.
So that's the biggest challenge.
So this book is done.
Issue one is ready to go.
I know you haven't launched it yet simply
because you still have Family in Honor
that is live right now.
So...
While Space Odyssey is building momentum,
you literally have a whole other book at
Kickstarter right now that is live.
What's that core behind family and honor?
And that's honor, y'all,
with the U because he's from the UK.
They have to add those extra vowels in
there.
You know,
I read somewhere that the original version
actually didn't have the U's.
And it's later on that it was added
by the British.
So you guys are actually the ones who
are right, which is surprising.
No, I'm kidding.
But yeah,
so Family and Honor is a completely
different story.
It's much more...
Yeah, no fi.
So it's not sci-fi, it's no fi.
It's more of a historical drama.
And it's about a man during a conflict
between...
So there was this thing in England where
the children of the king kind of rebelled
against him because they wanted more
power.
They wanted more, you know... Yeah,
they wanted more power, basically.
And that rebellion lasted for maybe a
couple of years.
It was not a big period in history.
But I wanted to write a story that
was about dilemmas and impossible
dilemmas.
And it's very much about a baron that's
loyal to the king.
who is betrayed by one of his own.
And because of that,
he has to make a decision to punish
that person in, you know,
the way that hurts the most.
And is he capable of doing that or
not?
So it's a very because who suffers is
not the person is punishing.
It's actually innocents are the ones who
suffer.
Oh, yeah.
I know this is kind of like a
Game of Thrones-esque themed book,
but how does that project and Space
Odyssey, how are those different?
Because it's along the same themes as a
historical piece, right?
but could you just kind of like give
us a little bit of a,
what in your head,
what's the difference between these two?
I mean,
other than ones in outer space and ones
in, you know, the UK.
You just removed my answer.
You just removed the,
you just took away my answer.
That was my answer.
Hey, we'll skip that one then.
No, no, no, it's fine.
Um, no, I, I think it's, uh,
it's a much more personal story,
family and honor, right?
So it's very much about, uh,
know this baron it's about the
relationship with um uh with the the
people in his life with his nephews uh
who are main characters in the story and
with this unseen character who is you know
the person who betrayed them who we don't
see in the story but uh he's you
know let's consider it the big antagonist
of of the story
And of course there's the king who is
also an unseen figure and it's someone
that the main character does not want to
disappoint.
So it's like he's an authority figure that
he wants to stay loyal to.
And Space Odyssey is much, you know,
there's still the personal stakes.
they're still the whole teams of family in
that case they are actually kind of
similar but you know it's also a space
opera it's like big you know uh bad
space battles and uh there's lots lots of
action there's lots of fantasy and sci-fi
and in family and honor no it's very
much um
I don't want to use the term talking
heads, but it's very much talking heads.
And it was a challenge to find interesting
ways to show the action happening that was
not talking heads.
So it's not just talking heads,
but it's very much that Game of Thrones,
like you said,
kind of political intrigue set in medieval
times.
I like it.
So let's talk a little bit more about
Kickstarter in general.
So how important is pre-launch momentum?
own Kickstarter?
Because I mean,
you're literally going to be Family and
Honor is going to basically finish and
then Space Odyssey is going to start.
Not immediately because there's going to
be like,
I have to fulfill Family and Honor first.
But I can do that in about a
month, so that's fine.
But yeah, one month later,
the Odyssey is going to launch.
and i will be you know promoting the
pre-launch page during that period heavily
yeah and yeah it's i don't understand the
kickstarter algorithm but the pre-launch
is really important because the number of
followers uh you get before a project
launches gets the more they push actors
yeah it gets you basically the first
hackers and the more backers you get in
the first you know day
the better your campaign is going to do
because it just, I don't know,
it just sets the algorithm for success.
Yeah,
and I think the way Kickstarter does it
is the more notified me's you have on
your pre-launch,
the more they push it to the front
of the page.
It's how I think they do it.
I'm not a hundred percent sure.
I've never had an opportunity to talk to
anybody from Kickstarter to really...
understand how they do things but
kickstarter if you're listening hit me up
let's solve some business and do some
other things but if you find out if
you find out do tell me i mean
kickstarter and that's one of those things
where like a partnership between or an
affiliation between me and them is
beneficial in a bunch of different ways
because i literally talk to people on a
weekly basis that use their platform
to produce their books, you know,
and to get the funds to produce the
creator's books.
So to me, in my head,
it makes sense.
It may not make sense for them because
they've probably never heard of me,
even though the USDN is a super backer.
You would think that would mean something,
but no.
Now, again,
it's one of those where it makes sense
in my head to be a partner or
an affiliate with them.
And there's a few others.
I'm working other stuff behind the scenes,
but Kickstarter is definitely one of those
top threes for me that makes sense from
a partnership perspective.
Because I literally promote them.
You send a lot of people to them,
basically.
Yeah.
Yeah, I promote them weekly, basically.
Like,
ninety percent of my content is
Kickstarter content.
Maybe I just need to start adding them
every single time.
Tagging them, collaborating.
Until they go, okay, hey, dude,
we got it.
We'll send you an email.
I mean, to be fair,
a lot of pros say that that's how
they start, is that they start, you know,
not adding them, but actually showing up,
right?
You know, the
older pros that you know were before the
internet they were just showing up it's
like well can you just stop show up
if you give you a job so you
know exactly exactly I don't think
Kickstarter has a podcast per se that
helps them do launches they just kind of
like people launch and just kind of kick
it into the blue and hope it stits
you know and hope it gets traction
That's interesting.
I don't know.
Does Kickstarter have a podcast?
I don't think they do.
I don't know.
Yeah.
So again, Kickstarter, get at me.
That would be a very good idea.
Damn.
You have a lot of good ideas.
I always do.
I always do.
I'm working on another one.
May first.
Stay tuned.
Okay.
There you go, folks.
New information coming up and great ideas.
The Great Idea Fairy visits me every now
and then.
No,
I say this because every time I talk
to you,
I come out with some idea that I'm
like, oh,
how did I not think about that?
That's actually great.
I know.
I take so much credit for your work.
I just don't say it out loud.
You should take more.
I'm like, oh,
you know that really cool cover that Bruno
did?
Yeah, that was my idea.
That one I did do.
That one I did say.
I did take that one.
The Virgin Covers thing, I mean,
that was like, I've been doing it since,
right?
I know.
Yeah.
I've done it for Flame Vault.
I've done it for Family of Honor.
I got the Flame Vault.
Like, that was the one cover.
I was just like,
that cover was too clean.
I had to have that one.
If I got any other covers...
It really did.
It did.
I was so impressed with it.
And you used good quality...
you know paper for it it just came
out so good yeah the the print i
i did not expect it to print so
well it just looks gorgeous that was one
of the things i'm worried about was
because it was being the way it was
going to be printed like how's the way
it split into you know the different
segments or whatever i was like that could
have went really bad but it thankfully it
didn't it looks so good yeah i i
was impressed yeah yeah
A hundred percent, but your idea.
So y'all heard it here.
You need good ideas.
Hit me up.
Business email is in the description,
but where were we?
So what should creators do before
theoretically hitting launch on their
project?
I mean,
you are a pro at this point.
You are a vet of Kickstarter.
Whether you look it or act it or
not, you are.
I mean,
you've been here like five times to
discuss books.
I know you've launched others.
I think you're on what, number ten?
No,
I think ten is because it counts the
pre-launches as well.
Okay.
That's why my Kickstarter shows ten,
but I think this is my seventh.
Okay.
Odyssey is going to be the eighth.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean...
Pre-launch, I would say that prepare.
What I try to do,
and I didn't do enough for Family and
Honor, is have a schedule already ready.
Using stuff like Publer,
we were talking before, you mentioned,
what's the one you use?
Buffer.
Buffer, yeah.
So having something like Buffer or Publer
to schedule your social media posts.
it's great schedule a few uh before you
even launch for if you can do it
for the entire campaign great if not you
know doing like twice a week for you
know the rest of the week uh that's
what i usually do is i schedule for
like three or four days at a time
and yeah but definitely
Now that I found one that I kind
of want to use,
I can't wait to start using it just
because the simplification of my life and
giving time back to myself at the end
of a project.
You know what I'm saying?
Because normally I post a video,
I schedule the shorts,
and then on top of all that,
I still go back through and I do
all the social media stuff.
as well i i kind of think of
it as a um a cradle to grave
from the for the project on my end
because it's literally i have to edit if
if it needs editing i don't do a
lot of editing i do like
the concept of it just being this raw
video where if there's mistakes,
if there's flaws,
that's a part of human nature.
Why cut that out?
Especially if it's something just like
funny as hell.
Well,
I'm not going to cut out a blooper
that, that means that adds to it.
But, um, and then the clipping,
like I have to clip,
I have to write captions for the clip,
I have to title the clip.
some instances depending on the clip I'll
even make a thumbnail for that clip and
keep in mind that is a vertical clip
so I have to do a vertical thumbnail
not a landscape thumbnail for that not
always the easiest things to do that's why
I don't do so many of them that's
why when I do the clips I do
use the covers from
the uh story in the beginning that way
it comes through as a thumbnail so it's
making use of that kind of stuff that
makes life easier on my end of it
but again i'm still writing the captions
i'm still clipping everything i'm still
feeding everything into social media
myself right now
and um it is a lot of work
it is daily work may not be like
all day every day but it's still i
get off work i come home if i
launched a video earlier in the day which
in about sixty seconds or less a video
will launch a new one will launch
i now after this video once i get
it download just video download it i do
the social media now for that video so
it's a never-ending you know train of work
to be done when it comes to that
and it's all done by me manually that's
why i'm using going to start using
something like buffer that way i can just
pre-load everything into buffer and just
schedule it out for
week or two weeks that way you know
that video that come out last week we'll
get one more or two more clips a
week from now that will hopefully draw
people back to that video so it can
repop into the algorithm again yeah place
and it's just researching man tons and
tons of just
figuring out what the algorithm or trying
to figure out what the algorithm is doing.
Did you get to the algorithm in time
before it changes again?
It's a lot of work.
I don't think a lot of people realize
how much work actually goes into any of
that.
So.
Yeah.
I mean, I,
I have no idea in terms of,
you know, um,
doing a YouTube show,
but in terms of promoting a Kickstarter,
it's very much the same.
Yeah, exactly.
The social media part is probably very
much the same.
And I cannot figure out YouTube.
I mean,
I was telling you before we joined in,
I can't figure it out.
At some point,
I just gave up because I was wasting
time for, you know, nothing.
But yeah, it's, yeah, I mean,
I would say, sorry,
going back to your original question,
I would say,
make sure that you have a good list
of followers before you launch.
I mean,
A lot of people mentioned the hundreds,
so anything in that ballpark is probably
good.
Make sure that have someone check your
page.
Send your Kickstarter page to someone to
kind of have a general look and see.
I always say that, always.
Because if I land on your launch page
and it looks like a hot mess of
garbage, I am not notifying on launch.
I'm not even going to waste time on
it.
If I get there and it just looks
like unorganized or messy profile as a
creator isn't in order and kind of tells
me who you are,
then I'm more than likely not even going
to want to work with you.
When I get requests to come on the
podcast, I literally like, hey,
let me get your social media and let
me have a look at what's going on.
and you know if you're launching a
kickstarter and i go to that pre-launch
and it just looks like a hot jumbled
mess more than likely i'm not going to
want to work with you until you get
that part of it figured out yeah yeah
yeah but yeah that kind of stuff i
think it's worth doing before launching i
like it man so you work across multiple
genres man like on a constant basis it's
like
like to play i call it bruno roulette
what kind of story is he going to
drop so because you do sci-fi historical
drama you got martial arts do you do
that all intentionally or i know you like
to say you just kind of write what
comes to you in the moment so how
like do you see yourself as like a
genre creator or are you a story first
type of creator
Yeah, I mean, I'm not drawn by genre.
I'm more drawn by the themes.
And sometimes you tell a story better as
a martial arts action.
And sometimes you tell the story better
with a sci-fi space epic.
it's just, it's just how it is.
I mean, it's how my, and the thing,
I think that the, you know,
putting something into a box,
it's something that we kind of created as
a society.
It's not really the way stories work.
It's just easier to promote it.
I mean, I do it myself.
I mean, I will say, you know,
family and honor is an historical drama
just because it's easier to say what it
is.
But, you know, it's more than that, right?
There's a lot more going on and there's
the teams.
So it's, I don't know,
I don't write what comes to my mind,
but there's still a lot of work that
goes into it.
There's still a lot of outlining.
I mean, I spent, you know,
an entire day, well, not an entire day,
but several hours of the day,
a couple of days ago,
outlining issues three and four of crimson
bay and this is not the first draft
let's just say that i was halfway through
the script for issue three when i realized
this is not working let me start over
So, you know, there's a lot of,
there's a lot going on that it's not
just what comes to my mind because what
comes to my mind sometimes is crap.
Sometimes it takes putting it in paper,
on paper or on the screen and actually
looking at it and then reading it out
loud for you to realize like, shit,
maybe I didn't do that one right.
Let me start going back through and you
read yourself, you know,
you bleed on your own work and you're
like, okay.
And here's the thing.
You ask me a question and I'm rambling
a lot and going tangents and stuff like
that, right?
Here is fine-ish.
In a story, nobody wants that, right?
You want the story to read like a
story.
Exactly.
So I need to catch myself for that.
I need to make sure that the story
makes sense as I'm telling it.
So it's what comes to my mind.
Make sure what's up here actually goes
right there and not the ramblings inside
there.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I'm guilty of that.
I like to write in my notebook,
transfer it to the electronic side.
And then sometimes I will be typing out
my notes from my notebook onto the screen.
And in my head,
I'll start talking or thinking about other
things.
And then I'll type it.
And then as I'm reviewing later, I'm like,
oh, damn, that came out.
Let me delete that.
That ain't supposed to be there.
you know, yeah.
As I'm trying to, you know,
I have characters for the book I'm wanting
to do,
and I'm trying to think of good names
for them to kind of match who they
are, what they are, what they represent.
And it's like,
so I'm making lists of these, you know,
my, I got my,
my character and then the names of those
characters underneath.
And I'm like, you know,
and then like random stuff will just come
in there.
I'm just like,
what the hell was I thinking with that
one?
Get that out of there.
Like, what in the hell?
Like,
why would that be this character's name?
Yeah.
Been there, done that.
I completely understand.
Exactly.
Or like a theme, you know,
you're working on a theme and it's like,
oh, wow, I really wrote in there.
I need to buy more shampoo.
Like, what the hell?
Because in my head,
I'm thinking about like, okay,
I need to go to the store.
What do I need?
I need more shampoo.
Yeah, it happens, man.
At least it didn't make it to the
final cut, right?
The next thing is how do you use
that in the story?
That's the next.
Exactly.
Taking your ramblings and your notes that
you're making on a story that you're
wanting to write and then eventually
making that into something legible or a
comic book that you're going to then hand
off to an artist
for them to interpret,
and hopefully you've done well enough that
the artist doesn't catch you back with,
like, the fuck is this?
I will say this.
That was infinite in Cinematic Figments.
That was a rambling.
Really?
I woke up with some weird ramblings.
I wrote the captions.
Yeah.
and then figure out the story around it.
So that was a rambling.
That story was actually good, though.
No, no, but here's the thing.
That was... Okay, thank you.
That was infinite, right?
So the artist came back,
and I'm working with him on the Odyssey.
So probably the rambling...
Couldn't have been that bad, right?
Couldn't have been that bad.
Bring it back.
Bring it back to the beginning.
But...
What's next, Bruno?
I know you got the Space Odyssey after
Family and Honor.
You're working on Crimson Bay again.
What else you got going on, Bruno?
Oh, well,
I'm looking for a job because I need
money.
So if you know anyone in the tech
industry was hiring in the UK.
No, but other than that,
I'm I'm working on Cinematic Frequency
three and four.
So those are in the works.
And I am thinking about an anthology.
about mental health and about
neurodivergence and it's very much about
the stigmas and the misunderstandings of
you know society on these subjects and how
it makes life more difficult so I'm kind
of starting to work on that very early
stages I'm running a Kickstarter so I
don't have a lot of time to
yeah focus on it yet but it's something
that's been in my mind a lot for
the last you know couple of weeks i
like it bruno it's time to wrap it
up and bring it home where can people
follow you at bruno
Well, Blue Sky is the best place.
I think it's Bruno Caterino, I believe.
And yeah,
you can still find me on Facebook.
I pretty much only use Facebook nowadays
for my business accounts.
But yeah,
those are probably the two best places.
And yeah, that's it.
Or Substack.
Follow me on Substack.
That's the absolute best place if you
want.
the, the juicy bits.
And I like your sub stack.
You get,
you give a lot of good stuff in
there,
especially when you come back from a con
or something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I like to write about the challenges of
cons and how some cons are like cons.
If that makes sense.
No, no.
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
They're all getting to, well,
I'll say this.
There are,
there are some cons that are awesome,
but some cons feel like a con.
Yeah.
No, a hundred percent.
But that is it.
Everyone make sure you follow this
campaign.
Both campaigns are listed down in the
description,
support indie creators and keep your eyes
on Kickstarter.
Make sure you hit notify own launch
because the space I see will be here
before you know it.
And if you just want to pick up
something else,
you can always just hit on over to
Kickstarter, search in family and honor.
That's honor with a U.
and support that one as well but ladies
and gentlemen this has been the usdm
podcast where indie comments come to life
ladies and gentlemen the council of nerds
is now adjourned y'all be safe out there
thank you
Hey Bruno,