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Welcome to Late Boomers, the podcast that is your guide to creating a third act with style, power and impact! Join your hosts, Cathy Worthington and Merry Elkins, as they bring you conversations with successful artists, entrepreneurs and entertainers who have set themselves up for an amazing third act. Everyone has a story, and Cathy and Merry take you along for the ride on each interview, recounting the journey each guest has taken to get where they are, and inspiring you to create a path to success as you look toward your own third act!
This is the EWN podcast network.
Cathy:Welcome to Late Boomers, our podcast guide to creating your 3rd act with style, power, and impact. Hi. I'm Kathy Worthington.
Merry:And I'm Merry Elkins. Join us as we bring you conversations with successful entrepreneurs, entertainers, and people with vision who are making a difference in the world.
Cathy:Everyone has a story and we'll take you along for the ride on each interview, recounting the journey our guests have taken to get where they are, inspiring you to create your own path to success. Let's get started. Hello. I'm Kathy Worthington. Welcome to our 5th season of late boomers.
Cathy:Today, we are excited to introduce you to our special guest, Ken Kunkin. He has 4 college degrees, is a lawyer who spent 40 years with the Nassau County Long Island DA's office, a motivational speaker who has influenced the lives of people with disabilities, and the father of 3 boys who are triplets. Recently, he became an author, publishing his memoir, I dream of things that never were, the Ken Cuggan story.
Merry:And Ken is the 1st quadriplegic to have graduated from Cornell University and the first to earn a, graduate degree there. While still a student, he testified before a United States subcommittee on health care ched chaired by then senator Edward Kennedy. His life's accomplishments and accolades are many, including the Kenneth j Kunkin award presented to a Nassau County assistant DA who personifies Ken's commitment, spirit, and love of trial work. Welcome to Late Boomers, Ken. We wanna hear about your journey and how you defied the overwhelming odds.
Ken Kunken:Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for having me as a guest, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to tell my story.
Merry:Perfect. Are excited to hear about it.
Cathy:Please tell us about your early life and about what led you to the path you're on today.
Ken Kunken:Okay. Well, I think what might be most relevant is that in 1970, at the beginning of my junior year in college at Cornell University, I was playing on their lightweight football team. In a in a game against Columbia University, I broke my neck and severely damaged my spinal cord, making a tackle on a kickoff in a game against Columbia University. And as a result, I'm almost completely paralyzed below the shoulders. I have a little movement in my left arm, but nothing in my fingers or wrist.
Ken Kunken:And on the right side of my body, I can just shrug my shoulder a bit. So I spent the next 9 months 20 days in various hospitals and rehabilitation centers before I returned to Cornell to continue my education. Wow.
Merry:Yeah. Well, that that must have made you a little bit depressed. And and Very much so. Yeah. I mean, your life certainly didn't go as you planned, whatever it was you were planning.
Merry:I know that you studied engineering, but I have to ask you, what kept you going after your injury and and also what keeps you going now?
Ken Kunken:Well, without a doubt, family. Family, family, family. When I got hurt, my family just really came together and helped me in every possible way they could. And when I say family, I'm not just talking about, you know, my father, brother, or sister. I'm talking about aunts, uncles, cousins.
Ken Kunken:The extended family all were incredibly helpful to me. And they basically assured me, without saying the exact words, that they would act as my arms and legs to make sure I could do everything I wanted to do, and they've done just that. So without a doubt, early in my early early after my injury, it was the family I just mentioned. And now more recently, not only that family, but my incredible wife, Anna, and my triplet sons.
Cathy:Mhmm. So beautiful.
Merry:Wow. Well, I do have to ask, how did did you battle depression to for those people listening who may have similar problems or are are in bed and can't get up, and perhaps they need a dose of inspiration?
Ken Kunken:You know, it it was a lengthy process. I can't say I snapped out of my depression at any particular time. It took quite a while. But during the time that I was in rehab, my family was constantly visiting, constantly by my side, and constantly assuring me that there was still a lot I could do with my life. And they motive they motivated me, they kept my spirits up, and they helped in every way they could.
Ken Kunken:And, you know, after a while, it was clear to me they were doing so much on my behalf to help me that it was almost as if I felt like I would let them down if I didn't keep my spirits up and tried to do as much with my life as I possibly could. So, it definitely is all attributable to them, and I can never thank them enough for all they've done.
Cathy:Wow. You were inducted into the Susan m Daniels Disability Mentoring Hall of Fame. So how important is it to you to give back and mentor others, and how has that actually helped you?
Ken Kunken:You know, it's really, really important. And I might add that before I was inducted, I worked for a couple of years as a vocational rehabilitation counselor at Abilities Incorporated on Long Island, which at the time was part of the Human Resources Center, and it's now called the Viscardi Center. And I worked there as a vocational rehabilitation counselor for a little over 2 years, and I just loved the work, and I just found a new way that I could help people and serve the community. And that did wonders for me as well personally because after being the recipient of so much help for years, now I was able to provide help. And that made an enormous difference.
Ken Kunken:And I'm so proud to say that when I left there, 30 years after I left, the president of abilities incorporated called me on the telephone and asked me to be a member of their board of directors. So I so happily accept that I've been so honored to serve on the abilities and, first, on their board of directors and then more recently, on their parent company, the Viscardi Center's board of directors. And I have to add that when I say how helpful and supportive my family's been my whole life, my cousin, Roy Danis, who was one of the people that has always been so helpful to me, is now chairman of the Board of Directors at the Viscardi Center. He's taken such an interest, not only in me, but helping others with disabilities, and it's so gratifying to see.
Cathy:That's so beautiful. Were you ever able to meet other quadriplegic people who were very young as you were when it happened to you?
Ken Kunken:Mhmm. Yeah. I met people, well, first at the Viscardi Center, but also when I was undergoing rehabilitation. I was at the Rusk Institute, and I met a number of individuals who were injured early in their life, usually late teens, early twenties. So I got to meet, interact, and speak with quite a number of people who were injured similar to me.
Ken Kunken:Although, quite frankly, most of them had more movement than I did. It was very rare that I met somebody with as little movement as I had.
Merry:You must have been very inspiring to them. And and talk a little more about your work with, people with disabilities of all ages. And, I understand that you're also a motivational speaker. Do they coincide, or is that a separate thing that you're working on?
Ken Kunken:Well, I worked for a little more than 2 years as a vocational rehabilitation counselor. In fact, I passed an exam where I was working as a certified rehabilitation counselor. And I did that at the Viscardi Center where I would help people who either had severe disabilities or were dealing with life altering diseases or just basically facing a lot of challenges in their life. And I helped provide them with not only vocational and placement counseling, but personal adjustment counseling as well. And I found that very rewarding, and I enjoyed it very much.
Ken Kunken:And one of the things that I did on behalf of the center was I spoke to groups before groups and organizations on affirmative action and nondiscrimination concerning people with disabilities. And often after my talks, I would be asked questions about the topics. And while I'd certainly do my best to respond appropriately, I was always really careful to caution the questioners. They should really speak with a lawyer about their concern. And I guess it wasn't long before I started to think, you know, there's no reason why I couldn't become that lawyer.
Ken Kunken:So I left the center after a little more than 2 years and went to Hofstra University School of Law. And I might add that the head of the Viscardi Center, doctor Henry Viscardi junior himself personally wrote a letter recommendation for me because he appreciated what I did at the center, and he felt there was still more that I could do to help others. So I've always been very grateful to him for that as well.
Merry:Do you have any stories you can tell us, about somebody that you worked with who who perhaps might have been battling depression as you were and came out of it because of your work with him or her?
Ken Kunken:Well, there are quite a number of people that I worked with over the years who told me that as a result of things that I was doing, it motivated them to do more with their lives. And I might add that that didn't just apply to people with disabilities. You know, when I was working at the district attorney's office, I was often told when people went through their exit interviews where they were asked what did they like best about the job, what did they feel could be improved about the job, that many of them mentioned meeting, getting to know, and working with me. And now, I don't say that to boast or to brag. I I know they weren't talking about meeting and getting to know Ken Kum Kim.
Ken Kunken:They were talking about meeting and getting to know a person with a significant disability because they, unless they had a close relative with a disability, usually didn't come in contact with somebody on a daily basis with a disability. And I think it was a revelation for them that, at least for the most part, I had a positive attitude and a pleasant disposition and that it did not mean any additional work for them. They saw I was a hard worker and was often more productive than many of the people in the office. But if you wanna mention one person, I would mention a fellow by the name of Robert Papia who went to the Henry Viscardi School. He was born, and early on developed muscular dystrophy.
Ken Kunken:He also uses an electric wheelchair. And he credits me, he said a number of times, that I was his inspiration to eventually go to law school. And after he graduated law school, he worked for the town of Hempstead for a while, and then he became a Nassau County District Court Judge.
Merry:Oh. And Oh my goodness.
Ken Kunken:Bench now for more than more than 8 years now. And he has said many times that he's credited me with inspiring him to do what he's doing. So I'm very proud of that. And in fact, Rob and I now both serve on the Viscardi Center board of directors.
Cathy:Great. That leads me to my next question, which is a perfect lead in because I want to ask you to tell us your thoughts on having high expectations for yourself and for others.
Ken Kunken:You know, that's a great question because when I was in the rehab center, it seemed like everybody's expectations were so low for somebody with a disability.
Cathy:It
Ken Kunken:seemed like almost any disability. Mhmm. And I was able to get a hold of a pamphlet that was put out by the rehab center, and they talked about what type of careers somebody in my condition could eventually do. And the only career I saw for somebody who was as quadriplegic at my level would be to someday sell magazine subscriptions over the telephone. That seemed to be the best they thought I would ever be able to do.
Ken Kunken:And while at that time, I couldn't even dial a telephone, they were rotary telephones, would take notes or write anything, I was determined to do more than that. And with my family's help and help from personal care attendants and fellow classmates, I was able to continue my education. And I not only got my undergraduate degree in engineering, I I decided that what I really wanted to do was to work with and help others who were dealing with either, you know, life altering diseases or significant challenges in their life. So, I stayed at Cornell, and I got a master's in counseling and student personnel administration. And then I increased my counseling credentials.
Ken Kunken:I went to Columbia University where I got a master's degree in psychological counseling and rehabilitation. And that's where I decided that I wanted to work with people doing rehabilitation counseling and helping others who were dealing with these such significant physical disabilities. And I really, really enjoyed working there for a number of years before I decided that there was still more I wanted to do, and that's when I went to law school.
Cathy:But kind kind of along those lines, somewhere in that training was when you adjusted your your own viewpoint and said, I'm going to have higher expectations for the people around me?
Ken Kunken:You know, absolutely. You know, as I was going through the schooling and, you know, internships and the work at the Viscardi Center, there were times it was almost as if I was looking in the mirror and counseling myself since I saw so many people with the same needs, concerns, wants, and desires that I had. And it just made me feel better about myself that I could help them. But I have to say before I was hired, I had to look for a job for a year. And I sent out more than 200 resumes because everybody seemed to feel I was just too disabled to work.
Ken Kunken:And I was even turned down when I left to volunteer my services back there, but I knew I could work. And all I was looking for was the opportunity to show that I could work. And that holds true for so many people with disabilities. We just want the opportunity to show what we can do. And I believe once we're given that opportunity, employers find that people with disabilities are some of the hardest working, most loyal, and dedicated employees an employer can ever hope to find.
Ken Kunken:Yeah.
Cathy:And how did you meet your wife? I have to ask.
Ken Kunken:Actually, my wife is from Poland. And when I was looking for a personal care attendant to help me on the weekends, I put an ad in the Polish daily news, which is published here in the States. And my wife was here for a while trying to improve her ling English speaking skills, and she saw the ad and responded to help me on weekends because she felt that would help her learn English better by spending time with somebody who was English speaking, who could speak to her on a daily basis in English. So, you know, she applied to work as my weekend attendant, and the more we got to know each other
Merry:The longer she stayed.
Ken Kunken:Developed and improved. And lo and behold, we got married in 2,003. And in 2,005, we became the father of triplet boys.
Merry:Oh, I have chills and goosebumps. That's one what a great story. I love that for all of our people that that listening and watching out there. Even if you if you haven't met anybody that you want to marry or be with, here's a great story for you, an inspiration. So you you mentioned that, you when you you you thought about being a lawyer, which you did become, And now you've received a lot of, honors from the legal profession, including the honorable Thomas E.
Merry:Ryan junior award for outstanding service. And you were named one of the Long Island Business News' influencers in law. So I know that you loved counseling. What is it that you love about the law and about your work as an assistant DA?
Ken Kunken:Well, you know, I have to add that when I went to law school, one of the influences, in addition to my work as a rehab counselor, is my older brother, Steve, who has basically been my best friend all my life, continues to be my best friend, and in fact, is on his way to join me for dinner tonight. Steve's a lawyer, and he was a trial lawyer. He worked in the public defender's office. And I used to watch Steve in court. And not only did it look exciting to me, but it looked like something I could do because I saw it was mostly at least waiting in the courtroom speaking.
Ken Kunken:And since, I guess, other than my Long Island accent, I'm not handicapped at you know, with respect to speaking. I felt being a trial attorney was something I can do. So I did an internship at the Nassau County District Attorney's Office, and I found a new way that I could help people and serve the community. So I decided that that's where I wanted to work. And at the time, I didn't know of any other quadriplegics who were trial attorneys.
Ken Kunken:I certainly didn't know of any assistant district attorneys who were quadriplegics, but I was fortunate that when I applied, the district attorney at the time, Dennis Dillon, was a very progressive, forward thinking, self confident, not only district attorney, but employer who decided to base his hiring decision on my ability rather than my disability. And I'll always be grateful to Dennis Dillon for that.
Merry:That's beautiful. Yeah.
Cathy:Can you tell us a little bit about your book, I Dream of Things That Never Were, and why did you write it?
Ken Kunken:Okay. Well, first, let me just tell you where I got the title for my book. When I was still in the rehab facility, I was asked to testify before United States Senate Health Subcommittee chaired by senator Kennedy, which you mentioned in your introduction. And 8 days after my testimony, senator Kennedy sent me a glass paperweight in the mail that had an inscription on it that the senator said his late brother, Robert Kennedy, liked very much. And that inscription was the quotation, some men see things as they are and say why.
Ken Kunken:I dream of things that never were and say why not. That's where I got the title of my book, I dream of things that never were. And you asked about being depressed. I was very depressed while I was in the rehab center. And one of my aunt's friends, a person by the name of Albert Meglin, who had done some writing on his own, came to the rehab center to visit me, and he suggested writing a book where I would dictate to him initially.
Ken Kunken:And he thought, one, that would help me deal with my depression by talking about it, and also that it would be informative to other people because most people didn't know what you went through when you're in a rehab facility trying to rehabilitate yourself, particularly after an injury such as mine. So, initially, he would come once a week where I would start dictating to him about what I was experiencing and going through. And then, you know, we would start and stop and pick up the book. And then when I got out of the rehab facility, went back to Cornell, I met with them a few times on vacations. And then I stopped for a while, and the book just sat.
Ken Kunken:Mhmm. And after I got married to my wife and our children were born, my wife suggested that we pick up the book again and start writing it, 1, so that it could be informative to help other people who are either dealing with this type of injury or any disability for that matter, but also for their relatives, their parents, their friends, their possible employers, right, to educate them on what it's like to have a disability. And then later, of course, we said, and it would also be great for our triplets to read so that they would know a little bit more about not only what I went through, but how helpful my family has been every step of the way. And we finally completed the book after working on it. I was working on it for more than 50 years,
Cathy:and it
Ken Kunken:was it was finally completed last year. And I've been so thankful to Steve Eric, the head of 12 Tables Publishing, for publishing my book, and we we've been so pleased with the comments that I've gotten ever since. I've gotten a lot of comments from people who have read it, from all different walks of life who said that it has helped and inspired them to do more with their lives. So I I just wanna make sure I said the publishing company correctly. It's 12 Tables Press, and I'm so thankful for them for publishing my book.
Cathy:Great.
Merry:You for saying that. Yeah. In along the lines of what, Robert Kennedy said, you've, you have said, just because it has not been done before does not mean you cannot do it now. Talk about that.
Ken Kunken:Well, you know, that was my feeling. When I went back to Cornell, they never had a quadriplegic student there before. In fact, I think they had only one other student who was ever in a wheelchair there, and and he was also injured while he was a student up there, doing something unrelated to football. But he was a paraplegic, and he had the use of his arms. So I decided that wasn't gonna deter me from going back there and doing my best to complete my degree.
Ken Kunken:And I might tell you, when I went back there, this was 20 years before the Americans with Disabilities Act took effect. And there was not one ramp or curb cut on the entire campus. On my first day of classes, had to be either pulled up or bounced down close to 100 steps Oh. Just to attend my first day.
Merry:Painful.
Ken Kunken:Yes. But with a lot of help from a lot of people, I was able to do it. And I decided there's no reason why I can't stay there for graduate work and become the 1st quadriplegic to earn a graduate degree. And as I said, when I went into law, I didn't know any other quadriplegics who were trial attorneys. So why not be the first?
Ken Kunken:So I decided to do that. And, now I knew there were some other quadriplegics who had gotten married, but with respect to me, I had been paralyzed for more than 30 years when my wife and I looked into in vitro fertilization. And while it looked like a long shot, we decided we pursued in vitro fertilization. And through the miracle of science, my wife, Anna, became pregnant. And then I was actually in the delivery room.
Ken Kunken:I was present in the delivery room when my wife, Anna, gave birth to triplets.
Cathy:Oh, beautiful.
Ken Kunken:Than that.
Merry:That is so ask you.
Cathy:What's it like to be the father of 3 boys? 3 triplet. I actually know somebody that had triplet boys.
Ken Kunken:It's the greatest experience in the world. It has changed my outlook on life a hundredfold. I mean, I love seeing the excitement, the boys' eyes, and everything that they do. And I I've so enjoyed watching them grow and helping them, trying to guide them, at least by talking with them and trying to instill the proper values in them and perhaps even helping them with their homework occasionally. And And how
Cathy:old are they now? How old are they?
Ken Kunken:Now, they're gonna be 20 in January, and they're all sophomores at 3 different colleges in upstate New York. They're all pursuing different majors. And over the years, while they've been home, they've helped me in so many ways. There were many times when they would feed me or, you know, turn on the light or, you know, help me with reading something or any way they could. They've been so helpful.
Ken Kunken:They'd go out somewhere and come back and say, dad, you could go there. There's a ramp. Right? They would notice all these things. And just the most incredible three sons that I could ever imagine that anybody could have.
Merry:So tell us about what they're studying.
Ken Kunken:Well, my son, Joseph, is actually going to Cornell University. He started at Cornell 50 years after I left there. 50 years after I graduated. I mean, 50 years after I graduated my undergraduate degree in 1973. He started 50 years later, and now he's gonna be pursuing a major in mechanical engineering.
Ken Kunken:My son, James, is a sophomore at the State University of New York at Morrisville where he's studying renewable energy.
Merry:Oh, we need that.
Ken Kunken:Timothy is pursuing a dual major at the SI Newhouse School of Communications and the Maxwell School of Public Affairs at Syracuse University, and he's interested in pursuing a career in journalism.
Cathy:My goodness.
Merry:About in these 3 months. Going to write about you. Well Mhmm.
Ken Kunken:Whatever he decides to write about, he's gonna do great. I'm absolutely sure about that.
Merry:Oh, see. Yeah. It's it's
Ken Kunken:In fact, he's been helping me with trying to do an audio version of my book as well. And Timmy has helped me with that as well when he was home on vacations.
Cathy:Well, you have such a melodious voice.
Merry:You should
Cathy:do you should do the the reading yourself. That'd be great.
Merry:Thank you.
Ken Kunken:I did. I I actually
Cathy:Oh, you've already recorded it?
Ken Kunken:Yeah. We already recorded it. It just needs to be edited and put together.
Merry:Yeah. So, tell us what motivates you now. What's the future like? And if you have any stress at all these days, talk about that. How do you deal with it?
Ken Kunken:Okay. Well, what motivates me is trying to help others to do more with their lives. I've done a good amount of motivational speaking, including yesterday, where I was the keynote speaker at a job fair for people with cognitive disabilities. What causes me stress? Every time I appear before a large group and give a talk, I feel the stress.
Ken Kunken:I mean, I've done it a lot. Mhmm. But I never enjoyed being in front of a large group and doing public speaking. I know a lot of people share that.
Cathy:Yeah. But you had your training in the courtroom.
Ken Kunken:Yeah. I had a lot of training
Cathy:in
Merry:the courtroom. And, and actors are supposed to get nervous before they go out on stage.
Ken Kunken:Yeah. Yeah. I found, you know, when I was in the courtroom, I relied a lot on my memory, so I do that with my public speaking as well. And I always worry a little bit before each speech, am I gonna remember what to say? Because I've relied mostly on my memory, but, fortunately, the words always seem to flow, and I've gotten very positive feedback with each of my talks.
Cathy:That sounds exciting.
Ken Kunken:But what motivates me there, I wanna see if I could help as many people as I can. So if my book helps, that's great. If my experiences and motivational thoughts help, that's great. But just being out in public and showing people there's an awful lot you could do with a disability, including being a husband and a father. I wanna spread the word to as many people as I can.
Cathy:Beautiful. And going along with that, what would you like our audience to have as a takeaway today?
Ken Kunken:Well, one of the things we mentioned is not setting limited expectations for people because a person's performance often rises and falls based upon what others expect of them. So it's so important to keep your expectations high for others as well as for yourself. That makes a huge difference. Don't be satisfied with anything less than the best. You have to challenge yourself and always try to improve and do as much with your life as you can.
Ken Kunken:And whatever you do, find time to help others. Mhmm. Years from now, be able to say you did everything you possibly could to make not only your life, but the lives of others as well better as well. And it's so important to participate. It's so tempting just to sit home and not do anything productive.
Ken Kunken:And by getting out, being in public, and helping others, you'll feel better, and it makes a tremendous difference in other people's lives as well.
Cathy:Mhmm. Thank you.
Merry:Thank you. You are such a joy to talk to. Thank you so much for the work that you do and for inspiring us to be the best we can be no matter what the odds are. Our guest today on late boomers has been Ken Kunkin. You are a true hero, and he's a motivational speaker, a highly respected and honored lawyer and assistant DA and author of I Dream of Things That Never Were, the Ken Kunkin story.
Merry:You can reach Ken through his website, kenkunkindot com. Thank you.
Ken Kunken:Thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to tell my story.
Cathy:It's beautiful, and we wanna thank our listeners also for subscribing to our podcast and for checking us out on YouTube and recommending us to your friends. We appreciate you. We'd love to have you give us a 5 star review, and we wanna hear about your experiences with late boomers and what gets you inspired. We are on Instagram at I am Cathy Worthington and at I am Mary Elkins and at late boomers. Thank you for listening, and thanks again so much, Ken, for being with us today.
Ken Kunken:Thank you as well. Thank you.
Cathy:Thank you for joining us on Late Boomers. The podcast that is your guide to creating a 3rd act with style, power, and impact. Please visit our website and get in touch with us at lateboomers.biz. If you would like to listen to or download other episodes of Late Boomers, go to ewnpodcastnetwork.com.
Merry:This podcast is also available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and most other major podcast sites. We hope you make use of the wisdom you've gained here and that you enjoy a successful third act with your own style, power, and impact.