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A Marvel Rivals Podcast hosted by Coach Mills and CaptainCoach, two creator and educators for Marvel Rivals. We discuss all things Rivals including META, balance and the future of development. We will often debate controversial topics that surround the game and plan to bring on many exciting guests from pros to devs!!!
What's up guys and welcome to a brand new episode of clear comps.
Today we're joined by returning guest Paz.
Thanks Paz for coming back and brand new guest, the Bulgarian prince himself, Boger.
How you doing man?
Hello, I'm good.
I'm good.
I've been playing Rivals.
Unfortunately for me, and games have been very interesting recently, so I'm very excited
for this little talk we're gonna have.
If
In your tier list.
I watched the first minute of your video that's like, uh this is what's wrong with rivals
or something like that.
Someone just leaves out of nowhere.
Yeah, it's just, yeah.
bad.
I had a first game.
had Line Pro on my team and Line Pro told our JF the Lone Shark, we're in a top 500 lobby.
Please don't OAT.
You will die.
Like don't go into them.
Just go back.
He OATs, goes in, dies.
Line Pro crashed out on him.
Second game was this guy leaving.
don't know, second game, my team just decided to go for tanks again against a bunch of top
500 players.
lost.
Third game was that guy just saying, jeez, I'm bored and left after one fight.
And I was like, bro, what the fuck?
Yeah
where you tweeted about it and the guy just had left the game.
I think it was what it was.
First fight, first fight, instantly left.
What do you think that is?
Do you think that's more the player base or just like the game putting people in a
position to fail?
people are always like that.
Definitely the game isn't putting you in a position to fail because I'll be honest, that's
like uh conspiracy theories.
I don't believe it because how are you going to even execute it?
You have to have people on your payroll that you're sending out on people when they start
winning, right?
Like it just doesn't make sense.
They could be putting you in lobbies ah that are like a little bit more difficult because
you are in a winning streak and they want to balance it.
Maybe, mayhaps.
I don't really care too much.
I think.
The fact that good players always win and climb consistently every season.
Like the top players always get high rank, right?
Like, trust me and Zypé, whatever else, right?
There has to be a trick to it.
There has to be a way to climb.
think if there is consistency to it, if it's not random every season, then I believe like
the best players do prosper.
But I think it's just the sentiment of the player base.
And whenever a game does badly, the players get really...
uh
you
at everything and then they crash out a lot easier.
I've had people crash out almost every game.
yeah.
uh What do mean with balance?
like, think you're kind of, you're kind of referring more to like EOM, guess, or like the
matchmaking.
I'm talking like, uh, you're forced to play certain characters that you may not want to
play.
So you're kind of prioritizing, climbing over fun because of the meta, right?
yeah, but I don't think the meta matters too much unless you're high tier games and I've
noticed this happening in any ELO.
I've played with some friends off stream, happens in those games too.
ah My friends have told me that have been playing the game and like plat and stuff,
they're having horrible time with games, right?
So yeah, you kind of are pushed to play meta characters, but that's in every game.
And I don't think the meta characters matter.
until like Celestial and like Eternity, right?
it's just people are tired ah of the balancing of the game in the sense that yeah, you
don't have to play meta characters, but it does suck when the enemy team rolls out in
Phoenix and they're with similar skill level as you.
So they're going to win a lot more than if you're playing Mr.
Fnaster, right?
So I think people have been seeing the same thing over and over again.
They kind of tired.
There are pigs that are really broken though.
Like they're gambit like straight up that character definitely, right?
No question on every rank broken.
Well, I want to ask you, how do you feel about the state of the game?
Because you say that some people are kind of frustrated.
Do you think it's just a lot of the same stuff that's getting old because it's the same
meta over and over again?
Or do you just think like the actual meta of the game, the balance of the game is just
wrong?
Like they need to do some dramatic steps to kind of bring that in line.
There is no right or wrong meta.
Everybody is going to have their own idea of what's supposed to be.
ah But um I think there's characters that are too strong.
And I think we've had Gambit be too strong for too long.
And it's forcing people to ban him every game because otherwise the game becomes really
unplayable.
I think definitely that character needs to be hard nerfed.
I don't know why they're scared to nerf him because I talked about it in a different
podcast.
um
If you don't nerve the really broken characters because you're scared to offend the player
base that plays that character and you don't want to nerve their core kit, like I think
they're too afraid to touch result.
What happens is the character is so busted that he gets banned every game and then the
people that actually main him don't get to play him.
Like, so it's like a lose-lose situation at end of the day.
think people that want to trade Gambit and love Gambit, they don't want him to be
gigabroken because also there is less skill expression.
It's less hype to play Gambit.
Because you're just an ult bot.
you're just playing for your ult, farming it, ulting, winning the fight, right?
If you don't manage that, you lose, right?
So that character needs to go for sure.
DPS has so many picks and I feel like it's mostly limited to like five or six.
Like the roster is so big and like, especially in high elo.
um Phoenix, Hela got nerfed.
Hawkeye is just, I don't think he's broken.
I think he's horrible to play against.
Like one shots are not fun.
We've seen it from Overwatch.
Nobody likes one shot, so.
um I think that character also kind of needs nerves.
But I think they just need to nerve the characters and it'll be meta for a while.
It's just boring.
It's just boring to see the same thing over and over again when your streamers play, when
pro players play, when they stream, when tournaments play.
It's just boring seeing the same thing over and over again.
It's just exhausting.
Paz, who do you think is the number one, like most broken character right now?
He kind of rattled off a few, but it is Gambit still.
not even close.
It's just Gambit.
Well, here's the thing, people are catching up to it.
Tankpool is also Giga broken.
Like Tankpool is...
Yeah.
we got...
Yeah.
You just did an unranked GM on Elsa, you, Baz?
And it was like the easiest one you've ever done.
character is not okay.
Like, you shouldn't have mobility, health, and insane damage tied to one cooldown that you
get every two seconds where the passive doesn't deplete.
I just don't even know what they were thinking.
Like, I get that you want more DPS that are strong because it's been the same, like, like
Boger said, like, five that you've been playing since season zero.
Like, it's been the same cast of characters because conceptually they're just too strong.
But, like, I feel like we need to add
I don't know what the answer is, because I'm not a game dev, I'm not the one that's making
the balance decisions, but it's like you need something that's like either to take down
the conceptually strong characters or like add something.
I don't even know what you would add to make Elsa like strong without her being like that.
Yeah, I mean, you have to nerf her, but it's like then what do you have?
Bucky again?
crazy opinion here.
I think her ult is fine.
I know it's a little bit, I think it's fine.
I think it's busted if you don't counter it.
I think people are gonna learn how to counter it.
You don't stack together.
Your DPS flanks, so when people get ulted, you kill instantly.
Punisher kills it super fast.
I think her main kit is the problem.
And the thing is, her ult is fine if it gets charged slower.
And her kit is so broken, she can just farm it really fast.
So.
pre-nerf fault?
Did you think that was fine too?
Like in that state?
Pre-nerf?
No, I think it was just buggy.
hotfix, they almost never hotfix anything and they hotfixed her olds.
just boring because like there were situations where it was like a mile away and getting
grabbed into it like even if you play to counterplay it you still get outplayed which is
just yeah
too was like, I had a clip where I was just like Hulk clapping and Elsa ulting in front of
me and I got like sucked up into the ult, just like my finger was grazed by it.
I do think it should have a uh slight delay when shields.
I think it should be like 0.3 or 4 seconds.
Not too much, just so you can react.
I started reacting to it a bit more, but if it also dashes behind you and notes, there's
nothing you can do.
You just grab.
so.
yeah, it's quicker than like half a second and then it actually starts moving forward.
Cause I've like reacted to the sound and know, like Hulk Shield for instance is just half
a second.
I wouldn't even get it off in time.
I agree with that.
like a conspiracy theorist, but they like never hotfix almost anything.
They didn't do it with Phoenix, like melee tech.
They like almost never did, but they did it here.
Like they hotfixed.
Well, my conspiracy theory is that it's cause of Overwatch doing well.
That's the conspiracy theory.
They're more on their, they don't want to piss people off for too long right now.
That's my theory.
Yeah, maybe.
Yeah, probably.
think the fact that Overwatch came out and I've played a bit, it's really fun right now.
um that's out and the game is just in a horrible state in sense that like there's a bunch
of broken characters.
The bands have been the same.
Elsa, they added she's really broken too.
There hasn't been much variety and people are just like, like the community is just really
horrible right now.
I think I think they're like, shit, you know, like
you
feel about...
And this is to both Boger and Paz.
How do you feel about having a new hero every month?
Do think that's too much?
Do you think that that's a problem?
Do we keep that model up forever or is there a point in time when we're like, yeah, maybe
we should slow down a little bit and balance a little more?
Or do you just...
feel like if you don't, I feel like if you don't release a hero every month for like a
game that's like Rivals and like the type of like the way that it's positioned itself,
like it just doesn't feel right to me.
I mean, if we're talking about balance, like obviously like if they did like a Rainbow Six
Siege from like years ago, like an Operation Health and just like actually fix the game,
like I would like that as a top level player, but I don't know if that's necessarily like
the most healthy for the game.
But like a character every month like you can only get so like What's the word like you
can't can only get so interesting with the kit designs because you have to make a
character every month to Maintain that cadence for years and years and years so like I
mean, yeah if we get a character every month We're gonna keep getting like in my opinion
like blandish kits that are kind of like Elsa That's just like Bucky and Psylocke, but
mixed together
Well they have like a couple of kind of mediocre releases like Blade and then they went on
like runner-runner Gambit broken into freaking uh of course Elsa broken then Tankpull
broken like it just feels like The game is almost impossible to balance if they just keep
releasing these like crazy overkitted characters But what else do they do?
Do they release like uh a character that no one likes to play like Blade?
I'm not I don't I don't actually know the solution.
I'm just I'm just wondering
I think they need to slow the cadence and make sure the heroes are more balanced on
release.
I feel like that's pretty obvious at this point, but I mean, I know they want to make
things that they put in the game new, exciting, fun, TikTok worthy, you know, I mean, I
got a video with like views just popping off because Elsa landed one of those like crazy
alts that just throws you off the map.
And it's like ridiculous.
It's like clearly unbalanced, but I think that's what they're partially what their
strategy is for.
promoting the game, and I think that's why things are so broken on release a little bit.
um So I'm all for just releasing things more balanced, but I don't know if that's
necessarily as good for the game.
So it'll interesting.
How do you feel about it, Boger?
Because I know you've lived in both extremes.
Overwatch, had almost two years without a hero.
Yeah, it was forever.
And it was awful.
We've been on the other end of that spectrum, but we've never quite been on this end where
it's just non-stop.
I mean, it's fun that there's always something new, but I think...
If it is getting in the way of balance, think that maybe it's something to consider.
I think having a new hero every two months is still a lot of fucking heroes.
Like, every month is insane.
I um think I'll be honest, directly very honest here, think Rivals is a non-competitive
game, I think it's a very casual game, and I think it's painfully obvious when playing
Overwatch how casual Rivals is, and that's good.
And that's why Rivals was so popular in the first place and still is to an extent.
I think you kind of have to release a new character every month because the game balance
is whack and the fun part about the game is that it's very chaotic, right?
So...
I think with Blade and some other characters, release them and they're like, oh, that's
like, we try to balance it on release.
That's boring.
Like that doesn't generate hype.
It's not fun to watch.
People don't have fun playing it.
And they're right.
I rather have a really broken character when released that they, you know, hotfix than
have Blade because Blade has been absolutely horrendous, boring and terrible character.
And he, think what they had for Blade like,
the character itself is so unique and fun, they could have done so much more and they
didn't because they were too afraid.
I think they're not afraid anymore.
They're taking a lot of risks.
I think it's fine.
And the way they're approaching the game, it's a lot like League of Legends when it
launched and League was releasing two characters a month, right?
They were spamming characters.
Some months they had three new characters, right?
So I think, yeah, exactly.
And I think that's fine.
I think it's fine because the way I see it,
In the long term, if you want to make the game more competitive, both for Overwatch and
Rivals for Heroes Readers, which is like crackhead theory, I do see the games more moving
towards the MOBA-esque style of bans and picks and whatever else.
think that solves a lot of situations.
You've seen Rivals do it with the uh bans for pro tournaments where you have like four
bans on each team, two protects, whatever else, right?
I think the balancing...
should be mostly from the bands and then from the team not making characters too
overwhelming like Gambit.
Like you can't have that crazy character,
The number one way they can immediately like, you know, we're listening to the player
base, like solve the game, better, add bands, better than hot fixes, better that you just
give us more bands, let the players decide like what is good and what is not.
And then they can just do what they want with the balance changes.
Give us five bands per game, no like duplicates.
like for now, like give us one more band next season.
Like, I don't know why they won't and no duplicates and like just send it.
Like, I think that's going to improve the game tremendously because as I said before, the
game is chaotic.
It is casual.
And the only way it ever is competitive is because of bands like bands make it
competitive.
Right.
And then people can.
Yeah.
top end of like all the garbage and then you just now, okay, this is like you pull it all
down.
He's not wrong
care about the bands anymore because there's no point because there's always going to be a
broken character that's up there.
It's going to be.
Yeah.
I just don't bother.
Yeah.
realize too is you're going to actually see more diversity when that happens because
there's so many characters that are gate-kipped by, I don't know, like, Pokeslop, right?
Or Groot.
Like, a lot of characters just can't function when those get through.
So you're cutting out like BP and Widow just like, OK, Widow might snipe their healers in
a Groot comp, but she'll never be able to kill the Groot.
So it's just like, she effectively will never be able to win a fight.
I agree.
I mean, even by just adding one band on each team and removing duplicates, it suddenly
becomes like from four, most of the time it's like two or three bands, to six in a lobby.
And that's gonna like, it's gonna make the games way more fun, like genuinely way more
fun.
I think they don't wanna do it because they wanna want people to waste too much time
before a match.
I remember Overwatch had the same issue with why they didn't wanna add bands.
They were too afraid it's gonna...
Yeah.
Overwatch has set up bans is now it's really good.
I actually think the ban system now is better than Rivals.
It's instant.
Like you do the bans, boom, the game starts, right?
You
I don't see how it takes longer with more bands if you just do it where it's like rival
system versus instant.
No, Rivals is not like the thing is what I'm saying here is the way Overwatch has done
their system.
It's faster than Rivals now.
Right.
Like so with Overwatch, it's like, yeah.
So you just pick three characters that you want to get banned and then the system looks at
it and the most big characters just get banned instantly.
You don't have two phases.
Right.
And you don't have like the waiting period.
So it's way faster.
It's way quicker.
And I think Rivals not wanting to add one more ban slot is going to be
20 seconds for a band, wait, 20 seconds for a band, wait, 20 seconds for a band, wait.
They could speed it up definitely.
And maybe that's what they're cooking realistically.
They might be improving the band system and that's why they're not adding any bands in the
first place right now or for a while, because they wanna change it up a bit.
under the Overwatch system, they could add any number of bands.
You could have, and it would be the same speed.
So it just makes sense.
They could add five bands and it be instant again.
Ha.
Ha.
you could do that realistically you could the game is still playable.
I think um
I remember that.
To competing under that was horrible, by the way.
what was, what was banned.
So there was certain weeks that they banned all hitscans.
Every hitscan was just banned for a week.
I loved it.
It was great.
one of the casters cats I just want to point it out Zoe's cats I'm pretty sure Zoe's cat
or dog would just pick randomly what to ban that week I'm not even getting it like that
remember the fucking week where Widow was banned I was having a great time because that
character is a terrorist, still a terrorist but...
um
that reminds me of like the manatees from South Park.
Well, cause I mean, that's our big problem is like with the under the current system with
only two bands per team and you don't always get, you know, every does not always for
bands is that you can never really warp the meta in any meaningful way.
You could just take away a small piece.
But when there's hella gene fucking all these characters that do almost the exact same
thing slightly, you can never get rid of all of them.
Like if you wanted to actually force because like if you had a whole bunch of bands, you
could really, you know, ban in a way that just actually forces.
You
We banned all the triple support supports.
Like they just don't exist.
uh Which I think would be it.
I mean, that's kind what we want, right?
Just something that we can actually push a meta.
the quickest and easiest way.
That would be the best buff for Hulk.
I'm sure it would be the best buff for lot of characters, just to be able to ban more
things.
I think they should do that ASAP.
That's my number one change for the game right now, is bans.
I'm glad we talked about it early.
What, um so when the 6.5 patch notes, we saw uh three DPS ult charges buffed.
So we saw Punisher get his ult buffed so he gets it faster.
We saw Starlord get his ult buffed and then Wolverine got a massive ult buff.
He generates his ult way faster.
How do you feel about them deciding to do that?
um Boker, Paz, whoever wants to answer.
How do y'all feel about that?
Star-Lord one, I remember reading that and I was just like, huh?
Okay.
Guess like it was just weird like I feel like that character was already good with gambit
and we just make made him better I was like, I don't know I mean to be fair like I didn't
play a ton in season six So like I could just be talking out of my house to be fair.
I mean Wolverine and ranked Wolverine and ranked like I felt pretty I mean
And ranked for low elo, like I've watched a lot of low elo Wolverine, like it feels
horrible to play that character I feel, but like high elo it's a little bit better because
people actually shoot your pulls.
But again, I'm like, why, I don't feel like buffing.
In my opinion, if we want to make this game balanced, I like buffing isn't really the
answer.
I feel like we've talked about it before.
It's like, can we not have Hela be like OP for like a year straight?
Can we like maybe nerf Mag a little bit?
But like nerfs, from what I've seen from their balance philosophy, like they don't want to
nerf characters it seems, but I mean, recently that's changed.
casual.
That's the thing, the game is casual.
So it's like, yeah.
to ask there then is are we stuck in this meta like pretty much this is like hell is
always going to be like really strong.
Cause I think they killed Hawkeye.
I don't think Hawkeye is good with that hot fix.
I actually think that was.
begin with either.
Like I feel like he was pretty counterable.
the devs will change stuff.
They even nerfed Luna, which is crazy concept considering Luna was Dany's favorite child.
true.
Yeah.
I play the game or when I do a tier list, people in the chat are just like, why is Hela so
high and Scarlet Witch is so low?
was like, brother, Jesus Christ, genuinely.
I wish I had the same confidence as you, right?
Like, just...
I get people get mad at me every time I don't put mr.
Fent in like at least a tier and like what game are you playing?
Yeah m
Yeah Not to the level that he could be played like I just I don't see it and I mean I know
he's really strong But like yeah, you're right.
I don't see some of these characters going like crazy at all
feel like the Star Lord, he did not need an ult charge buff.
I thought Star Lord was actually like in a decent spot.
Like I thought he, you know, he's pretty difficult to play in my opinion.
And like you get big payoff, you know, if you land your shots and, and then use your ults
at good times.
his ultimate which is like the most braindead aspect of the character like
it definitely
played too.
For sure.
out it's like for sure like it
That's what we talked about with Sumito is that he wants like a global, global nerf.
They did it with Overwatch a long time back and it's a good...
Overwatch launch is very similar to Rivals.
The first years are very similar.
Like, like the only difference is that always didn't have like 15 new characters the first
year.
Right.
But Overwatch also had like almost instant notes.
And that's what brought people in really quickly because the game was really casual.
Like it genuinely was brain dead easy.
um And Rivals is also genuinely brain dead easy.
I'm sorry to say this for anyone, try playing Overwatch nowadays.
I climbed to GM4 really quickly and bro, people in plaid, because I was doing my
placements in Diamond, they play better than one above all players in Rivals.
They're taking angles.
And that's like Overwatch, Glaze, and what else?
They've had 10 years to grind, of course, but like...
um
That's the niche,
you think that rivals will stay that way forever though?
you think, you don't think they should ever like, as the player base matures?
No, I think when the player base grows in like a couple of years and if the game is still
healthy, they can look to make the game way more competitive when because people are going
to get bored from the same thing because people are going to learn all the tricks like
right like you were going to learn all the tricks all the combos all the things people are
to start implementing it consistently.
The player base is going to grow the game stays alive and eventually they're going to have
to start making the
You
know if you would agree with me on this, but I think that Overwatch has actually become
more casual over time.
Especially like changes into Overwatch 2.
We talk about the HP buff, we talk about the movement nerf, know, the projectile size
increase.
Now we're adding a whole bunch of new heroes.
Like the game Overwatch feels like, I mean, it's still more competitive than Rivals by
far, but it's kind of trying to play into a more casuals.
Yeah.
Like the games I've been playing in in like GM and stuff.
I peek and I die like in milliseconds.
People are just holding angles and stuff.
Yeah, because people have practiced the game, but I know what you mean because they want
to bring in a more casual audience and like, yeah.
mean, yeah, I mean, when people have have it hyper solved at the high end, and I think,
you know, bands help with that, too, like the fact that they finally embrace bands
definitely helped.
I mean...
though Overwatch is just like it's just like the way the game functions how fast you die
the neutral actually mattering like the support alts not being broken.
Yeah
In Rivals you can spam cooldowns even in 1 above all lobbies and win.
In Overwatch if I waste my bow I'm dead.
uh
just remember we had a lot of the same conversations back in Overwatch where it was like
they're never bouncing around high elo.
Right, right.
It was the same conversations, right?
Yeah.
It's like I don't think anyone's ever going to be truly happy.
Especially high elo players, never going to be happy.
and you shouldn't balance around them.
You should nerve the problematic characters that they say are problematic because it
trickles down.
Like, people are going to start catching up to it in lower elo and, it's going to be
miserable.
But, like, you definitely shouldn't always listen to pro players.
There should be balance to it, right?
Like, you shouldn't be...
you
are looking at Rivals as this high level ranked competitive experience?
Do scrims?
think the game can be competitive if you do scrims and stuff.
I think there's all very fun mechanics, combos, like teamwork, macro play is very good and
rivals I think is very fun.
from a team perspective, there's a lot of outplay.
The good teams always win, right?
Like we saw it with VP.
The good teams always win because they're smarter, they position better, they flank
better, they know comps better, their bans are better.
It's way more engaging and fun, but you won't find that in ranked.
It's just not gonna happen.
that's what I was gonna ask.
Do you think they should add bigger stacks back to ranked?
um It's a good question.
I think triple stacking can work.
think six stacking is just too abusable in high elo and doesn't really...
It won't really show who's the best.
I think Zyp3 would be getting like five accounts in top five, in top 10, right?
ah Like he's still good, he has really good players, but with stacking, the game just
revolves around if you don't stack in high elo, you can't win.
And so you always have to stack.
So it's going be difficult.
think triple stacking could work.
I don't see why not.
uh You do triple stack and then you get another triple stack on your team and like vice
versa, right?
Like a two, two, two, two, I guess.
I know I'm just thinking about it, but triple stacking maybe, maybe even four stacking.
I don't think six stacking, six stacking is going be too much.
I think in Celestial you can get away with it though.
I think in Celestial maybe, maybe you bring back six stacking in Celestial.
I don't think Celestial is too competitive.
Because of the Q times, they just get too long.
Or do you think wind trading could be an issue, maybe?
If stacks like that and higher ranked, I don't know.
I just wasn't sure what your meaning was.
rank what's gonna happen is all the pro teams are just gonna stack and then you will not
have a fighting chance against them like I like I'm gonna be queuing up and if I'm solo
queue I'm gonna lose the game because I'm playing against all VP on the enemy team or Navi
or hundred thieves or sentinels and
3-stack,
Yeah, or if I'm 6-stacking with streamers, we're just gonna get stomped again because the
enemy team is full 6 pros that have scrimmed together and know the map.
So I don't think 6-stacking in Eternity and 1 above all is ever gonna work and I think it
takes away from the experience.
again, think stacking with 3 people is gonna be good.
I don't see why not.
It's gonna make the game a little bit more enjoyable.
Plus, you can stack tank support and DPS.
So you always know that you have at least one support in your team.
You have one tank on your team.
It could be better if triple stacking is allowed.
So I know you want, you think that they shouldn't really bounce around the high elo, you
think they should bounce more around like low elo players or like the masses.
What do you think they should do with the characters that lower elo players have a very
different experience?
So like a character like Squirrel Girl or like a character like The Thing.
Doesn't that go against what you just said though?
Where's the line?
Where's the line?
okay okay okay let me let me let me rephrase I think the line here is that in lower elo
you have characters that are really OP because they are really cheesy and like SG and like
mr.
Fent and like whoever else right scarlet
Because people don't understand what counters them, why they're bad, or Iron Man, or
anything else.
And I think nerfing those characters is just gonna be stupid.
It's like a noob test, really.
These characters are a noob test.
It's an IQ check.
You need to learn how to these easily counterable characters.
I mean, it's true.
I mean, it might have...
can't if you can't beat score girl and plaid you can't vote
This guy smurfs all the time, he hates low rank players, by the way.
I mean it sounds rude but I want sugarcoated.
If you're getting stoned by SG every game, I'm sorry but you just need to learn the game.
It's like chess, If I keep losing to, I don't if you guys play chess, but if I lose to a
scholars maid every game or a fools maid every game, that's not because those are broken,
it's because I'm stupid.
I nerfed the bishop, right?
It's the same logic, right?
tired of it!
If high elo players, people that know the game but don't struggle with that, then there is
a solution to the problem, right?
But if high elo players now struggle against certain characters, now I do believe these
characters are probably problematic all around the game and then eventually people are
going to start picking them up.
Like, if you get a good halo player in low elo, it's not your fault you're losing.
That character is just busted.
Like, if you don't play halo at the same level, you're just going to lose the game.
I those characters should definitely be nerfed.
My point before that was uh about like not listening to high elo players too much is that
high elo players are smart and they understand the game, but they're always going to
complain.
Like you can't always do everything they say.
They're never going to be happy.
They're never going to be enjoying the game completely.
And there's always going to be something to nitpick because ultimately it comes down to,
because I've also done the same thing with Overwatch and played Siren Pro, ultimately it
comes down to these people like us playing the game 10 hours a day.
And we just get bored out of stuff, right?
Like we're always going to want something to get nerfed.
So I think my point if I have to really lay it down in layman's terms is there is no
perfect meta and there never will be a perfect meta and you can't chase that, right?
Like you can never, like what is a perfect meta, right?
What is balance?
What is perfect balance?
It's going to be play everything has 50 % win rate or what?
Like how do you envision it?
Like do you envision every character being playable?
Cause that's never going to happen.
So instead of chasing perfect balance, think they should more focus on the game being fun
and then nerfing things that are too strong and too problematic and too infuriating and
then balancing the game so it's playable and letting people balance the game themselves
with more bands like we discussed before.
I think that itself solves the matter for High Elan.
I would love to see a mode where you can't swap characters, and then you'll see what true
balance looks like, or imbalance.
I envisioned this game in five years, 12 new characters per year, we have like over a
hundred characters, it's a crackhead theory.
um But in five years, you can't repeat characters, like every team has their own
character, ah you can't have two Groots on the same game, you know what I mean?
You can't have Mir...
Because you have so...
Yeah, because you have so many characters in the game, because you have so many characters
in the game...
You have 5 Groots already, there's 5 OP tank characters you can pick.
you have fucking 10 million bans and like you're spending every pro tournament is like
every match before it begins like 30 minutes ban phase, right?
You ban 20 characters.
Either way, just like...
I mean, that's my point.
Like you can do some funny things.
for sure yeah
yeah, that's why like my balance philosophy right now, like I really liked the Adam
change, even though it really like, it doesn't make any sense.
I just really like it, cause it's just like, just make the game fun and the balance will
figure itself out later.
um Like figure out the balance, like tune the numbers to what you gotta do.
Like Adam, for instance, like he's still, don't, like you still have to pick him in triple
heal because he just doesn't have enough just like output healing.
Like it's just kind of like.
I actually played it a bit.
It's so fun.
I like it when they do changes like that that add a little more, like, decisions in depth
to a character.
I think those are good ones that we can, pretty much universally agree on.
They're not really gonna break- it's not gonna break Adam to make him fly, but it's more
fun, I think.
Yeah.
like losing their mind and I was losing my mind a bit, but it's a fun change.
It didn't break the character, but it's just fun.
The memes that came out of it, OnlyLegs has been farming clips.
It's just fun.
It's just fun.
Like, listen, I feel like a boomer now because I've I've spent 10 years of my life playing
Overwatch and I've been on the opposite end and chasing again, like the perfect balance
and things like I just came to realization like the games are supposed to be fun.
Like competitive players can play the game no matter what.
and uh people are gonna strive to play in professional settings and grind as long as
there's money involved.
if you make the game more fun with more silly things like Adam's Flanking, I think next
tournament for example, next big tournament, you're gonna see some crazy Adam Flanking uh
clips and it's gonna be really fun to watch.
Viewer experience is important.
yeah.
here's my next question then.
Is Triple Healer fun?
So that's like where we got to like.
It's not fun.
Is it?
Is it?
I don't think so.
I don't think so, no.
I'm grinding I'm playing like
I just tell them go triple support bro, like trust, we'll win.
in high elo looks different than lower elo because in lower elo they genuinely just pick
tree healers and like that's the point.
It does though, it does, it does because in lower elo you don't know how to counter it and
again it's an IQ test kind of but it's a team IQ test.
It's like it's really hard to kill them alone.
So it doesn't apply as much as like the previous statement against Scarlet Witch and stuff
because
It's really hard to deal with triple support by yourself.
You kind of need a Groot Moon Knight, you need some combos.
If your Groot is Handless, you're gonna lose the game.
So it's more annoying and it's just frustrating to play against.
Even if it's not broken, it's just frustrating to deal with this amount of heals, right?
you in the the role queue camp?
You think that that I know we went through that in overwatch ah
pro play there should be a role queue.
think in ranked, I don't know if there's soft role queue or not, in ranked it's just
exhausting how many games I've had with 4 tank players or 5 DPS players.
There could be a soft role queue where people can pick...
I think a preferred role like league would be nice because the game's quality drops
dramatically because I need to fill support every game.
At this point I'm kind of...
You
system you think it should like kind of like soft enforce to to to so like every lobby has
about to to to in the lobby
I think a lot of people in ranked also pick triple support because they generally just get
three support characters, like three support players, for example, or they get like three
of the same row and the easiest comp is triple support.
I'm sorry, but the easiest thing you can go and the best is triple support.
So if you have three DPS and one DPS willing to swap triple support, if you have three
tanks and one of the tanks willing to swap, you go triple support, right?
In pro play though, don't know how meta triple support is outside of Mantis.
Like if you ban Mantis, I don't think they play triple support too often.
Because they actually play dive and pro play.
They don't play dive and ranked.
No one plays dive and ranked.
No one plays dive and ranked.
I have thoughts on a soft roll cue.
I am for it, but it does introduce potentially a new set of problems, uh is longer cues,
especially in the higher ranks.
But my counter argument to that would be that if the game quality is better, the player
base is going to go up, and then the cues are going to be faster anyway.
So it might be bad for a little bit, but if they do it right and implement it well, it
could be very good for the game long term, I think.
Yeah, you can always introduce like something like Trust Me has been saying if you go
triple support, there's like a healing reduction by like 15 20%.
So like for the entire team, so people just can't heal bot, but it doesn't solve the issue
too much, I think because triple support is strong for the reason that the supports can do
a lot of damage like Mantis and stuff.
Crazy utility,
And the damage amp is crazy like damage boost is it's a bit breaks off points and makes
things one shot that shouldn't one shot So I think that's a solution as well.
Maybe um But it is definitely an issue and people are really frustrated and I from what I
know Danny doesn't really want to do Roku and I agree with him He shouldn't do Roku, but
they should nerf something.
I think another like a little bit of a
more out there solution about it is the reason why triple support is so strong is because
they get support out so fast and support those dictate the game quite a bit.
uh So if you have mantis, so then they don't have Matt.
So do you win if they don't have any support or too much?
So I think just nerfing how fast oats are farmed like straight up, like by by a large
margin would also balance out triple support a bit because even if you increase the old
charge of support,
in general, it would kind of balance it out more because it'll be way harder to get your
Mantis or like your support O's.
Okay, let me give you a concrete example here.
If you have two supports, all charges increased, it's gonna be way harder for you to get
your support O's before they get their DPS O's because you're playing triple support and
you're spreading out the heals.
And right now there is enough heals and you can charge your O's.
fast enough even with triple support to actually be able to match their tank in DPS holds.
But if you increase their ult charge and you play triple support, it's going to be slower
than the enemy team running 2-2-2.
And then they're going to have support those before you and you're going to lose or
they're going to have DPS holds before you and you're going to lose.
So triple support inherently won't be played as much unless you want to play mantis or
stuff and farm it from doing damage, which takes a little bit more skill than just heal
body.
Well, Mantis, like win rate wise, I know win rates don't mean anything, always been super
high right now.
Do you think that's the result of her being like over tuned or just in that kind of type
of comp, it's just like really strong against like more disorganized games, like where
people I think struggle a bit to counter it.
Right?
yeah, I know what you mean.
think it's difficult to say because she's really bad in 2-2-2.
ah As your second support, sometimes you can do it, but it's really hard unless your team
is really good.
But I think the reason why it's so high is because Mathis is mostly played in triple
support and triple support is just really easy to win with and it's the go to triple
support comp and she has a really broken, arguably the most broken team up right now.
with Loki and Groot because a lot of characters benefit from it quite a bit and the comp
is really solid by itself.
Even if there was no team up it would still be a good composition.
So I think that just increases her win rate because there isn't many situations where
people just go Mantis Luna or Mantis Invis.
People are gonna pick Mantis when they already have two supports as a third support, three
supports broken or easy to win ranked games.
Win rate goes up.
I think it's because one omitted or not, Mantis and Adam do get picked in duo, healer,
comps, and ranked.
I think the reason, Adam, for instance, right now is like 47 % in GM+.
He's like almost like, I think he's like 47 in Celestial+.
I think it's because he doesn't have a supporty type support ult.
So he can't function in two healer.
harder to use than two.
think we talked about this in the past, but it would have been cool if the characters with
a lot of heals didn't have a defensive ult.
Like they gave the Adam type ults to the characters like Invis and Luna, and then they
gave the Luna type ults to characters that were like, you know, more...
Jeff change, for instance.
When they gave him passive healing on assault, mean, obviously, for the player base, was
really happy about it because they hate having Jeffs on their team.
He's probably the most hated character.
But I think they should have gone the other direction with it, just from a character
uniqueness standpoint.
I think that's just one thing this game lacks, is the diversity, at least for the healers,
not that much.
Yeah, I think it's better though.
think Gambit was a good example, but he's too busted.
And I think if they nerfed him it's gonna be better.
think Adam is a lot better than before.
think, like what other support did we have?
It was Gambit, right?
Like what was the one before that, Invis?
Ah, Invis...
Ultron?
you think they should rework characters, Bogur?
Do you think they should rework?
They should rework Blade, they should rework Ultron.
Honestly, rework Mr.
Fantastic, like just buff him in some way.
Torch?
Maybe.
I think a of these characters came out rushed because they wanted, they needed characters
to be out and those characters just need to be reworked.
think...
ever want to spice up the game like in a big burst randomly they could just rework like
five heroes at once.
Yeah.
they can come up and be like, okay, we're not launching five years, but we're working the
horrible ones.
So that'll be hype.
the maps that are out of the map pool slightly reworked too.
And then it's like it's like rivals too Changing gears a little bit you you live in Sofia,
Boga.
No you You don't even Sofia can't um, because I that's the only country I've been to is
Bulgaria I stayed in Sofia for a month.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
I like I like Sophia's fun
I walked to the market every day and got like the...
Y'all have like food behind the counter at the market.
I was just like, yeah, it was cool.
It's a nice place.
I like it.
like it.
What do you live in Bulgaria?
I don't know.
You don't have to say if you don't want to.
next to the beach.
OK, OK.
Yeah, I didn't get to...
Yeah, when I was over, it was cold, I think.
I think it was like I couldn't go to the beach.
But I...
uh
My boss at the time, I went for Easter and I ate like this like lamb intestine thing for
Easter.
I don't know what it was.
I don't know if you've had that before, but it was a good time.
was like, it was like, it was like lamb intestine mixed with rice or something like that.
And then just a whole bunch of alcohol.
was, it was a good time.
But, but Garen's are really nice.
There's, it was really fun.
They were very hospitable.
They, they wanted me to move there.
uh Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I liked it.
Yeah.
Because I mean, I mean, I'm sure you know this book group, but something that other people
might not know is that uh they're it.
Bulgarian Internet is crazy fast.
I guess they developed it later.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like and it's kind of a tech safe haven.
A lot of people, a lot of people that work in tech go to Bulgaria because they have a flat
tax.
They 10 percent flat.
So, you know, you'll just be randomly walking like, yeah.
Yeah, you know it's it's sick.
It's sick if you ever like I'm surprised more streamers don't that's what the next
streamer place people are gonna go to is Bulgaria That's not it's it's sick Like cuz I
stayed in the apartment like the apartment was like a basically a luxury apartment is just
insane.
No, it's Yeah, yeah, it's really cool
Thank you.
vacationing there Mills?
You
It was a good time.
It's a I got a little lonely, but it was fun.
It's cool Being in a country you know by yourself for a while is a little lonely, but it
was a cool.
It was a cool place
What do you think of the US, Boger?
You were at TwitchCon, right?
I think I saw you at the event there.
You were playing in the event.
Huh.
every big city usually.
San Francisco is a lot worse, I've been told.
some people say it's better, some people say it's worse.
I like San Diego.
I think San Diego was pretty and was more European because you can walk around and like go
to bars and stuff.
So that was cool.
ah LA, I don't like LA too much.
be honest.
don't think anyone likes LA.
I think living outside of LA is more fun.
Like you live in a house and suburbs and stuff and the weather is nice.
But downtown LA, horrible.
I'm sorry.
It's terrible.
Terrible.
Terrible experience downtown LA.
It was actually crazy there.
Like I won't get into details, but if you've been to downtown LA, you know what I'm
saying, because downtown LA is just fucking crazy.
is the one state I haven't been to.
I've been to almost every state.
Not Hawaii, not Cali.
But I'll take your word for it.
do a little, yeah, when I was in LA, I just went on like a little nature hike because I
didn't want to like go in the city too much.
I've been there once before and we went up top on the conservatory above the city.
The biggest thing that surprised me, I mean, it was really pretty, but there's just like a
big smog cloud over the city.
You just can see it as clear as day.
You're just like, my God, that's a lot.
But Paz, where are you from, man?
Pennsylvania I tell people I'm from Antarctica.
It's just a running joke, but I know Pennsylvania I mean like live in the middle of like
Timbuktu nowhere bro, like it's I Got rivals I got deadlock.
I got everything I need
Yeah, I'm proud of.
Nice.
mean, I haven't traveled like too much recently.
mean, just saving money after college, you know.
But, eh
like Eternity.
Eternity is just like...
I don't have fun in Eternity.
Also EU...
EU...
ah
Is it?
I've never once played.
in a turn.
Like it's not competitive in the sense that you always have a government agent throwing
your game or like enemy team has somebody throwing the game, but like it is genuine just
pros playing most of the time.
Yeah.
higher ranks, it's really, really tough.
But you play in like Celestial, GM, I'd rather play on NA for those games personally.
Yeah.
EU is way more competitive in my opinion in ranked and I love OK, slight slander.
I love EU pros usually go in A to farm elo because like EU is way more difficult because I
know why maybe like you have less people playing and stuff, but most of the lobby so just
way more competitive.
You think the Koreans are ever gonna pick up rivals and just dominate?
They would just dominate though if they wanted to.
They could just take over the whole pro scene if they wanted to.
tried.
There was a team that was full of Overwatch pros, Koreans, and they got stomped.
uh
That's so funny
No, no, it was...
It was...
It was...
Who was the fucking Reinhardt Korean player?
forgot his name.
Kaiser.
Kaiser came up to us.
I don't know if you know about him.
That's so funny
like he wouldn't believe it because it's so not popular in Korea.
It's not popular in all of Asia.
Nobody plays in Asia.
China, in China, the highest rank they've achieved is Celestial.
Last time I talked to them.
Because Q times are just so horrendous.
insane.
That's crazy.
That's actually wild.
You said, um Paz, I know you've been grinding Deadlock hard.
How do you feel, Bogur, about Deadlock and like the future?
You think that that game has legs, like long term?
yeah.
Definitely.
think I've had people that don't play MOBAs or shooters too much play Deadlock and they
love it.
Like I've had more casual players play Deadlock.
Friends of mine have been grinding Deadlock.
I think it's the characters people really like.
I think the game has a lot of fun mechanics for casuals and for pros and for people who
want to take it seriously.
And it's really fresh and people are learning a lot.
And so it's just fun.
And
People are testing and I think when the game comes out, I think it's gonna be really
popular.
think definitely it's gonna be really really fun and popular.
They have the sauce, they have the sauce, the characters have the sauce, the gameplay has
the sauce.
I'm really excited about the Esports of Deadlock.
I'll be honest.
That is gonna be so hype.
I'm full in, genuinely it's gonna be like the next Dota internationals or league
tournaments.
It's gonna be...
I think in my opinion one of the most hype esports we're gonna watch because the fucking
outplays you can do in that game and the tech and movement and you're gonna see some crazy
stuff and crazy team play it's gonna be insane like we're gonna have some faker shit in
this game you're gonna have some crackhead who's 16 years old parrying every attack
jumping around the map it's gonna be great
I've even been scrimming some too like in my free time.
It's so fun
to try the game, but I mean I played it a little bit, but I feel like I'm handless.
Like it just it's not a hero shooter.
It's completely...
Yeah, yeah, it's not.
Like nothing transfers it feels like.
I have mobile experience so I understand some of more basic stuff but SK for example has
no mobile experience and she's like almost eternalist yeah yeah yeah because she just
grinds no you got this I mean I think if you've played Overwatch and stuff it's definitely
transferable because you have the abilities and like you need to manage it yeah yeah time
are easy.
There's three lanes.
uh Minions go down a lane and push an objective that has to be killed.
That's a MOBA.
feel like my problem is I feel like if I just fuck up, like I waste my time for one
second, now I just can't win a fight.
And I don't know how to not waste my time, it's my problem.
way you don't waste time in Mobus is just farm.
Like for the beginning farm and you start understanding timings.
Like, oh, I farm my lane, I'm going to farm things around my lane.
Oh, there's nothing to farm.
Maybe I go mid.
Maybe I go help my teammates or something.
Maybe I go look for a fight.
Maybe I go buy, right?
You're going to play the game more, you're going to understand more of the timings and
understand more about the game.
It's going to click.
It will click.
If you keep playing, it will click.
it's going to be fun because you're going to start understanding, oh, I can take these
creeps here and then I can move around the map and I can farm the jungle and I can get all
this money.
then, oh, am I going to take the risk to fight here to get more money or go back?
Or am I going to do that?
Or what items I'm going to buy?
There's a lot of layers to it.
And that's why it's fun, right?
You'd like it Mills.
We got to do a league, but we play league together sometime.
It'd be fun.
I haven't played league in forever, yeah.
Top lane.
Yeah, you strike me as a top player.
Seth.
Yo, I played Seth too.
I was a Graves guy.
Graves, Viego.
I liked Set.
I liked Ornn.
I like...
Yeah, I like...
Oh, I didn't grind too much.
I grinded...
It was like Overwatch was really bad and I grinded League for a bit and I got too flat.
Okay.
And then I think Overwatch 2 was coming out, so I just went to grind Overwatch 2.
Yeah.
I like League.
I just do like ARAMs mostly.
That's like what I do just every once in a while, which is just like everybody goes down
one thing.
it's just like team fight mode, basically.
yeah, you kind of honestly got me excited for Deadlock a little bit.
I haven't really checked out that game.
I'm surprised you haven't played it coach, because you were really good at League.
You should try it you should try it.
oh yeah, they just added one Strongest character and
Yeah, Abrams is really strong.
You can't build a melee because the thing is...
Yeah, so you have the parry system.
If you go for a melee, they can parry.
You get stunned, you die.
So you need to start outplaying their parries so you don't get fucking cooked.
And then you can outplay their melees and cook them and you can bait their parries and
melee them.
You have Billy who is very...
So the way it builds around melee is you have items that boost your melee.
It gives you boosts and buffs to your melee like lifesteal.
You steal AP, I guess, uh if in league terms, right?
uh You steal spirits.
the spirit is AP from league, right?
You
All of your abilities that are considered melee also apply a burn effect.
And...
um
elements too.
So you can like get like different specs going or did they not have like elements of
customization with your character like throughout the game?
Like as you level up, get goal.
Like don't know, like league you can buy items and then they...
Right.
okay.
Those...
Right, right, right.
you buy items Yeah
what you mean.
briefly, but last time I played it was a bebop his ultimate and then refresh his ultimate
and ult again.
I don't remember if that's still a thing.
they, it's horrible.
He was like the best character.
He was like the best character in the game for the small window of time I played is just
people just double bebop.
in the game and there will probably be more.
You have lot of characters that do revolve around melee.
Wait, there's a Marvel Rivals podcast, Coach, so we can't be talking about it.
So bringing it back to Rivals.
um how can they take maybe elements of what Deadlock is doing then?
And it seems like it's a bit more complex and there's more meaningful choices you've got
to make.
And maybe make it a fun thing, like kind of, I wouldn't say dumb it down, but we keep
saying lower IQ.
this one, but make it more accessible.
Like Deadpool, for instance, has like lot of customization aspects to him.
He's pretty crazy.
um Do we want more characters like that for the game or?
though doesn't really have customization options because like it's pretty clear-cut what
you're gonna pick like it's always the same that's the unfortunate thing
now that it's solved, it's yeah, it's they would have to they would have to give you like
100 of 100 options and they all do various things.
That's the only way.
needs either.
I feel like Deadlock is for people that are going to want that more competitive, engaging,
more put time into, it's almost like a full-time job level of game, whereas Rivals, I feel
like they should just keep building into that.
It's a fun game.
You feel like a superhero when you play it with your homies.
That's kind how I view as Rivals.
I think you could make some more characters like Deadpool that are more engaging like
that.
I feel like with Elsa, they tried to do it.
They tried to make it so that her passive scales with the game, but they just...
They need to work with that passive a little more to make it feel, I guess, a little bit
more MOBA-y if that's what they want to go for.
But I know.
I feel like if you tried as Marvel rivals to make something more like Deadlock or more
like Overwatch, it's just like that's not your niche.
um I don't mind the recent characters though in terms of design.
I think they're cool.
just think once they balance it and they give it a couple months, maybe it'll be a little
bit better.
Mills, we gotta get these guys on with light.
oh Yeah, Eli is gonna lose his fucking mind.
Yeah.
Oh, we said that we do need to get light back on but um, I thought I think it'd be cool if
there was a character that I know we're getting into weird like hypothetical design but a
character that They have an old bar that at the halfway mark It does one thing if they let
it charge all the way up It does another thing like they're like you can expend the entire
thing.
It's like two stages You could do like a light alt or you could do like a massable.
I think that's cool
I think Rivals is really good with the fact that they like taking risks with their
characters and I think that's really fun and I think they have really cool kits.
think I know you guys flamed Elsa beforehand.
I think she's one of the most fun DPS I've played like genuinely so fun.
Not fun to play against, but really fun.
And I think they're definitely going to do some crazy shit.
They don't care.
And I like it.
That's what we saw with Deadlock.
No, Deadlock, sorry, Deadpool.
Deadlock, I'm from my Brains character.
ah
But I think for Deadpool, for example, even though they did all of that stuff, they need
to rebalance his abilities so that there's more varied opinions about like there's more
options, right?
But I think they're definitely going to take risks.
They're definitely going to do some crazy stuff for the kit of any new hero.
And I'm sure they're cooking up something big.
Like I think the way we're going to the way it's going to happen is every year we're going
to get a few crazy characters like Deadpool and m
And that's like the big changes they're going to do.
I think I hope I really hope we don't get a blade again.
I hope that next month I think it's really vital next month to not have really boring
characters.
I think if next Monday come out with like Cyclops or something like characters like ass
and then one more character that's ass.
I don't see why I would be playing rivals and say Overwatch at that point.
Like it's going to be it's just going to be it's just going be boring.
Right.
So I think they're going to definitely take risks.
I think
You
cut them some slack in the sense that I think they're very receptive.
They've been very receptive.
They've been very patient.
They've done what the community has asked quite often.
They've introduced memes.
They have fun with the game.
I think it's really lovely that they introduced memes from the community into the game.
It shows the fact that they pay attention.
And usually up until this moment, they've been really on point with what's strong in the
method, which always surprised me in the dev visions.
Every dev vision, would perfectly describe what's going on with the game and deal with it
accordingly.
Now they've been cutting, like they've been kind of lazy with it.
And I hope they go back to that, right?
So I trust them.
I do trust the Rivalstiffs.
I do trust them.
Yeah.
there any specific mechanic from another game that want to see them try in Rivals?
give me perks.
I am so down for perks from Overwatch.
You don't know how perks work?
Give me perks, bro.
Give me perks.
That'll be crazy.
That will be so fun.
them you want them split up like they are now right like certain certain types of tanks
get certain types of perks certain DBS get certain types of perks Wait, what do you mean?
Like What are you talking about?
What are you talking about?
when you play the game and you do damage and like you enter, you kind of level up and you
get to choice between two perks.
And those perks, they're kind of like a MOBA mechanic where you level up and you get an
ability.
Yeah, but fuck it.
That'll be funny.
That'll be fun.
That will be fun.
I think that's been one of the best changes Overwatch has done.
BP needs man.
Yeah Yeah
The meme potential with that one.
uh
go ahead.
I'm sorry.
I was just thinking about things too.
It was like a crouch button.
it
cloak and dagger or some bullshit like, Her old is on a bar that she can spend whenever
she wants to.
Just an old, I don't know.
They could do some crazy shit for sure.
they should be simple, something like, okay, when Hulk lands on a jump, he does like 10
A-We Damage or 20, and you can see a little visual thing, and then, you know, little
things like that, I think.
Go crazy?
if Rivals is crazy, mean, Rivals in general is very chaotic and Overwatch is more like,
they're more like, sanitized and they went crazy with their perks.
You you
Because what Perkz was originally introduced is like kind of primarily a way to stop
counter swapping, right?
That's like what it was originally for.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I played it a little bit.
If this and there's strong decisions like that that actually matter.
I haven't really played because because I because I'll tell you the reason that I really
stopped playing Overwatch 2 because I played it from a concept played it for a while.
I didn't really play with the perk system.
I left before then uh but I was annoyed how it just felt counter swap as a tank thing like
no matter I play I pop off as fucking Doomfist and they swap Arisa like every time it's
like it feels like is it is that kind of solved or is
So you'll just take a step back in power.
All perked up.
but it does help that power level counter-swapping thing.
you
Cause that
I think counter-swapping is actually really strong in Rivals.
People just don't really do it as much as they probably should.
um I'm kind of afraid of it long-term that...
I mean...
Depends though, like some of the strong characters are just like that's why they're
strong.
It's like hard to counter them,
Ryan.
It'd be cool under your perk idea if they gave him like a tree that could help with some
of those bad matchups though, like some perks that could help with it.
get some shields when he's CC, yeah.
Yeah, something like that, yeah, yeah, that'd be cool.
the-
Right, but hopefully it doesn't help them in the matchups they're good in, They'd help
them somewhere else.
Yeah, yeah.
That's interesting.
We asked for it for years, and they were like, fu- they were like, fuck you.
Yeah.
You You m
to have patches where they're just going to shake up the meta and change things.
Like how would you suggest then balancing the characters you say have less counters?
Would you just lower their output or would you?
Yeah.
So would you like more cool downs or would you just like, like, like what's the balancing
look like for that?
perks.
Like his whole kid needs to be perks.
Right, yeah.
That's how they balance.
Yeah you
Yes?
you
Absolutely.
Yeah uh
What does the balancing look like for changing the meta up?
you kind of mentioned earlier when.
Yeah, Persia is going to losing his mind.
Yeah.
uh
It makes sense with the identity of the game too.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah, it doesn't even matter about balance.
It just matters that it's fun and that it's different.
show can't always be this weird character.
want to talk about Tankpool a little bit?
Like, say why he's OP?
Because I think a lot of people don't know about him yet and why he's so good.
Paz?
He was...
mean, yeah, the main thing that I just noticed, I mean, from talking with like some like
pro players too, when they were first learning the character, it's like, pretty sure his,
I'm going to forget the number because I wrote the guide like months ago, but I'm pretty
sure with like the upgrade to his guns, that's it.
You do like 167 damage per second with his left click and that's body shot damage and
that's also not taking into account like the explosion that he shoots to or if it's
headshot damage.
And to put that into perspective, Emma's beam is doing 140 damage per second at max
charge.
So he does that, he has a shield, his ult's really strong.
ah I mean he has pretty much everything he could need out of just a tank kit and he just
discredits him.
tech on Invis.
That was really good.
because like if you upgrade his pistol, you could just ult the Invis and then she just
can't really heal.
And like the only way to keep her alive is if the other support pockets her.
And if the support is pocketing one support that can't heal, they just die if you walk on
them.
like any any key can just off angle.
He can force out any DPS with his bubble and his guns.
like most like like like almost every tank.
they will get forced out by the DPS.
Like a Thor can get forced out by a Jhin or like most often a Hulk can get forced out by a
Jhin.
Tank pulls the one tank that can stand his ground, build ult really fast, ult their back
line, you walk on them, you kill them.
He kind of breaks the game in a way because he builds up his ultimate so quickly.
Which is crazy because ults already build crazy fast and he's building up his ult like
faster than supports are.
um And yeah, he's a bit crazy.
They're probably gonna have to nerf his ult most likely.
um But yeah, no, he's definitely broken.
Yeah.
Would you nerf the charge of it though?
Or just what it does?
Like how fast he gets it?
Is that why it's toxic or like so good?
Is it because you can get it so quick and kind of just auto win with like one strategy?
I think playing off of what Bogor said, I think they need to give him more options because
like right now it just you just build towards gun and gun ult.
So like you could nerf the gun ult aspect of it.
The guns aspect maybe buff the like the the the other ult, the sword ult, buff the sword.
Like you could you could kind of balance them a little bit more to be just to give you
more choices, maybe give you a reason to to not build towards just a
Basically a poke slop tank.
uh We could we could build him a different way.
So yeah I think people are gonna pick up on how broken he is really soon because
Yeah, I've heard a lot of things.
Yeah Yeah
Yep.
That too, yep.
Yeah.
out in a game where hitscan are like the best things you could play a hitscan tank is just
fucking the best thing you could play well Who would have thought that?
Just getting to shoot shit is good
ego solo ulted a tank pool in one of my games the other night and then he popped his ult
to counter and his health bar did not move when I was just hitting him in a room by him.
just perma, perma uptime mega Hulk just does nothing.
because you're playing a D tier character against an S tier character.
You learn your lesson.
Honestly, these takes have been refreshing that you guys have been saying because I've
been ripping my hair out about this game.
But when you kind of take it, step back, and look at the game for what it is, you can't
really get too mad, right?
Unless you're trying to go pro, it's tough.
Yeah
Yeah.
yeah, I agree.
I think it's more like if you're not trying to go pro, you should really just be trying to
play for fun.
It's just the perspective.
Yeah.
Playing in tournaments are fun.
Playing in turn- little mini tournaments.
Okay, okay, okay, okay.
That's actually true.
Ha!
Yeah you
We pretty much got everything we needed to talk about.
I was taking a look at your tier list, so number one thing you'd buff about Wanda to make
her playable.
Don't, don't, don't.
Okay.
She wouldn't be fun to play against is the issue if she's like if she has a mega beam.
I'm good.
eh
Yeah, no, fuck that character.
Do you think in...
Do you think in general it should be high skill stealing characters should be the ones
that are the most meta at the high ranks?
Yeah, yeah.
That makes sense, yeah.
No Squirrel Girl metas up in top 500 pro play?
Nah, I'm just kidding.
Hey, no, that was hype as fuck.
Junk is fundamentally different than...
I talked about this before, think Junkrat would be one of the higher skill ceiling
characters in Rivals.
Like if you just took Junkrat, if you just took Junkrat and put him in Rivals, he'd be one
of the higher skill ceiling characters.
Legit.
Legit.
it.
Yeah
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, that's hey, I like you test.
That's what you said.
We're making it
Yeah.
You
Yeah
Well, I'm glad I asked.
Refreshing takes, for sure.
Refreshing takes.
Because a lot of this podcast, think, is a lot of people kind of just saying what they
don't like about it.
You're just saying, like, yeah, don't really complain.
Both of you really.
Yeah, it is what it is.
Yeah.
Yep.
Yeah
Hehehe.
Yep.
It's made for fun.
I swear no one's happy.
It's so hard to find a happy Rivals player.
It's really sad to see.
Right now, a couple months I think it'll be better.
I really do.
Jackie.
I couldn't agree more.
mean that's a lot of what like with overwatch I was I mean I was trying to make it but
it's like at end of the day like You just have to enjoy what you're doing even if you're
trying to make it you're trying to be a pro player like you have to ask yourself sometimes
too like if you hate playing this game already for six hours a day and you make the
overwatch like you make the Sentinels or hundred thieves like you you're gonna have to
scrim this game then for like
plus hours a day plus rank, like you were going to hate yourself.
So if you don't like it, like take a break.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
uh
Yeah, you have to enjoy the game you're playing.
I that's the whole point.
like, I'm it's foolish of me to think that I'm going to be able to say, yeah, nerf X and
Y, and it's just going to magically poof get nerfed.
I'm just going to, you know, if that's like what's playing, I mean, if I enjoy it, I'll
play it.
If not, I'll take a break.
And I've done that already.
And I enjoy rivals more as a result.
So.
And yeah, Paz, super clutch coming on for us last minute.
Appreciate that.
People have been uh bailing on our...
Tough to get people to show up regularly, Dodging more than people leave in my ranked
games.
It feels like some of the times, bro.
So appreciate that, bro, coming in the clutch.
um
Yeah.
cook?
Okay.
this point, just want to see what the ads, like what more they can bring.
Just more crazy stuff.
Because I mean, while Elsa, like while I was playing it, it was broken.
It was pretty fun dashing around and killing everyone.
I can't lie.
So yeah, I more of that.
It's
Yeah, it's something great.
It's, it's, yeah.
It's honestly pretty cool what they did with the character that I think a lot of people
didn't know who the fuck it was.
Like I had no idea who else it was.
uh I don't know if people did, but yeah.
You
Yeah, and I wouldn't Luna I like I wouldn't be surprised if in the future we see like
movies with Jeff and Luna and all these characters now.
Yeah Yeah, he will definitely be in a fucking movie.
I my daughter has played the game a tiny bit and she will not stop talking about Jeff She
wants a Jeff stuffy.
She wants a Jeff t-shirt and it's like yeah, it's it's taking over.
Um, but but yeah, um
Boger, tell people where to find you.
Where do people find you?
Where do people support you?
oh shit.
Oh shit.
That's actually aura.
yeah.
Pass.
Let people know.
aura as Belgrade does but I mean YouTube just has and then twitch twitch.tv slash pass
swagger any any follow appreciate it watching just appreciate you guys
Hell yeah, dude.
thank you all guys so much for coming by and thank you for watching.
Make sure to smash the like, subscribe and we will see you next time.
See you.