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Two successful entrepreneurs talk about manufacturing, lean principles, and the freedom they are pursuing in life and business.
So you've had a chance to use your PLAUD. Yeah, it's great. I'm really loving it. So, recap. It's a little device. I was actually shocked at the size. It's literally business card. Uh oh. Yeah. You know, it's time. Credit card. Yeah. Little thicker but so easy. I've already dropped it and scratched it up 'cause I've been carrying it everywhere.
Yep. I use it with the morning meetings and it just does, um, it, you know, it, it puts all the action steps together or summarizes stuff. I. So we wanted to use it for the fact of like recording the fact that we have talked about certain safety things. Uh, forklift safety, hard hat, use glasses. Yes, we can document that.
We talked about this. So that type of thing. So it's been great there. I haven't tried to like use it as, as a information distribution [00:01:00] tool. I want it more like a record. 'cause I've literally had, you know, I have about five standing meetings per week. And, uh, one that happened yesterday. I went home and I was, you know, it has the AI scan of it and it added action points.
And I'm like, oh yeah, we totally talked about that. That's on my plate. So it's been, . It's been a great tool from that perspective. I do think that is one of those things in society that may weird people out. And just now the guys know that when we do a morning meeting, it's like, it's gonna be there and it's company wide and no expectation of privacy.
And I'm not sure if it really is a violation of privacy as long as everyone knows it's there. So, yeah.
Andrew: I mean, most people, if you've clicked onto a, a Zoom meeting between different companies, there's usually a, this meeting is being recorded.
Jay: Yeah, exactly. It's, they'll prompt when
Andrew: you Yeah.
Jay: You opt in, you're good.
Yeah. The one thing that caught me off guard is, you know, you get the quote unquote free subscription. The free version, and it's. Heavily limited. So it's got, you know, it's got this, [00:02:00] like a regular AI thing, just a a, meeting notes, something like that. And then you can dig down into the meeting specific ones, like a consultation.
You could do lectures. It's even got like a church sermon one. Yep. So you don't have, you can fall asleep at church. So it's got all these things. And those are on the paid, you know, premium tiers, which I might consider because there's some other things like. Asking it to distribute this to the key players in the meeting?
From what I understand, yes. Yeah. What's
Andrew: yours? I'm currently not on one of the paid tiers. Okay. *This idea in almost any technology you're using, it pays to be a power user. That idea, like when we are looking at fusion, when we're looking at our ERP, even when it comes to, you know, using basic apps like Signal and your phone, Uhhuh, understanding what the phone can do I still add keyboard shortcuts on my iPhone and MacBook constantly.*
Like I, I recently created one of these, you know, I, I've been more active on [00:03:00] LinkedIn. I get, uh, I get cold messages there and I've been getting more cold emails and I just have. A polite, Hey, thank you for getting in touch. I'm not interested. Please remove my contact information from your contact list and a signature.
. Like as a keyboard shortcut, so that whether I'm on LinkedIn or in my email or, and somebody just called these emails me with a thing I'm not interested in.
.
I don't have to sit there and type up a response.
Jay: Yeah,
Andrew: *yeah. I just have a quick, quick. Hashtag no interest, you know, send it back.*
*. And those little things really do make a difference. They don't save me hours a day, but they save me little hiccups of irritation, delay, derailment distraction all the *
Jay: *time. Yeah. So, you know, uh, bringing lean into it, one of the, um, well, several of the ways, one would be overprocessing. There's no need to rewrite an email that you've, you're gonna send a second time with the exact same verbiage.*
*That's a template. That's *easy. Also misuse, brainpower a really quick thing. Oh, let me just [00:04:00] knock this out. it's so short. I'm just gonna type it out every time. It's really a misuse of brainpower. At least that's what we call it, you know, unused employee genius. Might be another, uh, w waste number eight.
But yeah. Uh, you know, for example, we, we use, Zoho, specifically Zoho desk and their CRM just for CRM purposes, and they have. Something that we looked at about a year ago this time, and it just wasn't as mature as their in-house AI thing called Zia. . And I, it we're moving so quickly in with AI that now we're taking a look at it and it's just getting better and better and better.
And so we, we fired up that plugin with Zia and I think that way with Trello. We use Trello all the time and there's certain, what they call power ups what was the other thing they call it? Yeah, I think it's just power ups, but there's no, like I. Great AI built into Trello, you can plug it in. So I think everyone should be doing that.
I mean, in this day and age, you, you have to leverage these tools instead of fighting them. That's just my personal opinion.
Andrew: *Yeah. And the difference between being able to dabble in them *[00:05:00] *and actually start to build workflows in them that address your particular needs and solve pain points and problems that you have.*
*That's really clutch. So I've been using plug for our weekly admin meetings, which are an in-person meeting. . And that's been really helpful. I haven't used it for any morning meetings yet. I was gonna use it for an in-person meeting today. I was gonna be traveling to a different city for a meeting and then I got rescheduled at the last minute, which was fine.*
I had plenty else to do today. So I was actually kind of relieved hop in the car and drive to that meeting. But certainly. Having documentation of what was said, what was agreed to, what details were mentioned, and it's not just 'cause I wanna be able to go, actually, what you said last month was this, but because for my own sanity and responsibility, divorcing the, having the conversation from having to take all my notes right now or the information is gone forever .
Allows me to be a much more active listener. To [00:06:00] participate in the discussion more genuinely and more deeply.
. '
Cause I'm not also like Uhhuh Uhhuh, Uhhuh, Uhhuh. Trying to finish my thought from the previous thing, trying to get it written down. . And I've noticed that makes a real difference to me.
It's, it's noticeable for me. Mm. But it would be easy to be a dabbler in like six different things. . And I will be better served to be. Really deeply invested and become a power user in one or two things.
Jay: Sure. Yeah. I think the thing that I'm, I know I'm gonna struggle with, with all these tools is that they're not interconnected.
So if I want to use Plaud and I have action items, you know, I use, Google Keep for my daily checklist, weekly checklist, big brain capture stuff. . If PLA could just grab those things and put it into a Google Keep list that. That, I don't know, it gave suggestions, Hey, you might want to add this to your daily three.
Or even just, we know that we need to talk about this [00:07:00] material shortage issue we're dealing with. That should go as a comment in Trello, you know, our go-to for everything. I think that's where maybe something like Zapier, which plugs in multiple different, you know, systems. Yep. I think that's where like if there was an AI plugin with Zapier that went everywhere, that'd be amazing.
I don't have the bandwidth to chase that though. Yep.
Andrew: It's always, well, we use, we use, I call it Zapier. It might be Zapier. I don't really know. Sure. We use Zapier a lot. I think it's Zapier 'cause they're called Zaps. Not like each token is a Zap, not a za. That makes more sense. Yeah. Vaping and Zain automating and, I don't know,
Jay: well, I can't say that we say everything correctly on the west coast here, but, uh, yeah.
Zapier,
Andrew: so the. The number of places where we've used that to automate some transfer where there isn't a naturally existing or already existing integration is, it's significant. There's a lot of places where we're using like, Hey, you can go to this form, put this information in, and it will automatically put it, inject it in the right place [00:08:00] into our ERP.
Or like we have places where there are certain kinds of data entry, like stock takes volume overrides, things where we otherwise would have to go click into a bunch of menus. We built our own. Interface that then uses Zapier as a carrier to then take that information and plug it in, in the right format, in the right place for what we want.
And that has actually been really helpful. It saved our team a bunch of time. Wow. What would the, what was the setup on that? What did that I did none of it. So I, I don't use Zapier at all. I benefit from it, and some of my workflows included, but I didn't set any of it up. That was Ben. Uh, my ops manager.
Got it. And he's very good at finding shortest path possible. While still automating the thing. . Because if you have a semi-automated approach where it does this and this and this, but you still have to go like drag and drop it to here or you have to remember to send it, it breaks down. It just doesn't work.
Jay: Yeah, exactly. And
Andrew: this is the same way with AI and cam, like AI and Cam gets you part of the way there so [00:09:00] far. . And we talked about this right before we hit record. We have subscriptions to Cloud NNC and Toolpath. And I've used them each a little bit and it seems like if I were talking to a bunch of shop owners about where the most value they could get, uh, outta AI right now, it would be on the estimating side, helping you use AI to rapidly winnow out all the parts and projects that are not a good fit for you either they're not a good fit for your machine travels.
*They're not a good fit for the work holding you use. They're not, you know, you could figure out ways to start to narrow that, narrow that funnel or, or refine that filter. So things that are not going to be a good fit for you. . You can clearly identify and no quote. 'cause nothing is more frustrating for people trying to get parts made than to like, wait five days to get a no quote.*
*Yeah. Like delayed. No quotes are a big bummer. Yeah. And. If you can *[00:10:00] *refine, you know, fewer leads, but better quality ones. . That's a win. Then you can invest more of your time and provide more value on those parts. 'cause you're not burning up, you know, quoting is not free. Right, exactly. Even if you're doing spreadsheets and you've got templates and you've got a bunch of things built, but* you're doing it manually, that takes time.
It takes time of a skilled person. You don't take a brand new employee and say, Hey, quote, this complicated five access job. They don't know what they're doing with it.
Jay: I agree. Yeah. Speaking of quotes, so I, I'm in the market to buy a small corner, like a hundred pieces of this custom wire bend for a fixture we're, we're gonna use in house.
And, you know, five years ago we just, we just snipped a bunch of wire and I took it to my dad, who still has a, a huge amount of press break in his garage. It's like the last tool you should have in your garage. But he's had it for like 30 or 40 years. And I said, dad, can you just form up these little wire pieces?
And he happily did it, but I thought, you know, where's where's the send cut send? Where's the xometry for wire processing? And there's not really like any [00:11:00] one place that gives you instant quotes. So I went to five different custom wire forming houses, and the, I'd say like the two or three that were still operating off an HTML 1.0 website.
You know, they, I still have not gotten quotes from them. One of them was a little bit. Better. It felt more, it was, it was a standard, you know, HTML form and I could actually put an attachment on the RFQ and send it to them. . Another had everything like, totally dialed in it was a beautiful experience.
Attached a step. Gave a, a quote within 12 hours, I think, 'cause I put it in at night and had a quote in my inbox the next morning. But it was literally thousands and thousands of dollars for a hundred pieces. I thought, well, that's a bit out of line, but I get it. They, this is what they do. You know, I may not be their ideal customer.
This is basically like, eh, the wire didn't work. I misdesigned it, throw it away, order it somewhere else. You know, kinda like a send cut, send approach. But, um, there was one that actually seemed promising. It seemed like a larger [00:12:00] company that probably was a conglomerate. . And, you know, attached the PDF attached the step gave the specs, you know, I want three, 300 series wire.
*Then they got back to us and they reached out to our questions inbox. So they went to our website, emailed the guys in tech support, requesting a drawing and a step file, and all the information that I had already given them. So I go, what, what is the breakdown here? I'm not here to throw shade on them, but I'm thinking where, what are those scenarios that we do that the customer finds frustrating?*
*Where instead of us just quote unquote, being better? We could use better tools like AI so that we don't have this frustrating customer experience. Yeah. So I don't know. There's, I it's still, I feel too early, especially in the manufacturing space. Yes. Those tool path and cloud, what's it called?*
*Cloud, uh, cloud and C. Cloud and C, yeah. Great. they are being perfected and I do think like that is gonna be the future. *[00:13:00] *It's like when, when CNC came on, it's like, oh. I've turned handles for years. You know, why do I need a computer to turn handles for me? That was the attitude I, that was in the seventies and eighties.*
*My dad tells me stories about that, but you know, it's just like, embrace it or die or go by the wayside. So, I dunno. We're looking, we're looking still early though. What else is new with you? Yeah, so we have the, the Haw Robot, which is producing, we've done several lights out production runs, which is fine.*
We've definitely had to pierce on a fire by adding, you know, required blow offs. Some like, editing the, the way we interact with the light curtain. Kinda seeing like we're in a nutshell we are moving towards putting our Max four pallet system on it. Okay, because it, it is a zero point single pole stud.
It's just not great. It's not great. It's dirty. I'm gonna do a video because it's hilarious. My guy Paul is out [00:14:00] there with this like, it looks like a riot shield when he goes to blow off parts. 'cause there's no like door that you close halfway, you blow off parts behind the glass and then you open it up and you service your parts.
You change 'em out. When you blow off, you're blowing off into the robot cell and it, there's no way to catch coolant or chips and steer it back into the, the enclosure of the machine. . Like there is with our EC 400. So we're working through that. We're gonna shoot a video next week and show that.
And then also all the little you know, changes we've made, like I said, like every spring we kind of make a shop tour video that's kind of like the rhythm, and I'm excited to show that. But, uh, yeah, it's not perfect. I can't put my stamp of approval on the. Pause, robotic pallet loader yet, but there's definitely some room for improvement.
Andrew: Yeah, so it's fun when they installed the pallet pool, our PC 10 on the Matsuura, there's these little overlapping lips in the sheet metal because everything is sloped right to left downhill across the pallet pool to drain coolant out of the pallet pool back into the machine. . [00:15:00] And then you then them jacking the pallet pull up and moving it up next to the machine and scooching it over, and then setting it down so that those lips interlock correctly with the over lip hooking over the lower, so that the parts, just the coolant just flows down is nice.
The, uh, the little changeover station on some of those robotic pallet cells where you've got basically little. Little rotating windows that are clo double closed to the front, and then when you open 'em, they close to the back. Yeah. Yeah. I thought, I'm looking at that going, I would take one of these little plastic window panes in the sheet metal cutout, uhhuh, and I would, you know, put a hole saw in there, punch a hole, and then put a little rubber flap so I can stick an air gun through the closed door and do most of my blowing off.
And then open it up. Yeah, I like that. You could do that, right? There's nothing Yeah. You could. Yeah. Um, we don't need to do it in our system. . we're building in a tip 90, rotate, spin and fan. . Blow off before pallets come out of the machine. [00:16:00] So we should be able to get things off the machine basically.
With the bulk of the coolant and chips off them. Right. 'cause I don't want the pallet pool to get super messy, even though it's got the slope. Even though coolant will drain back in, unless you're running a decent volume of coolant, just drips. They go like 10 inches and then they dry up and the inside of the pallet pool gets kind of oily and greasy.
Jay: Yeah. So, so engineers from Hawes came out and they just wanted feedback. You know, we're so close to the factory. We ask them like, Hey you, you remove the pallet from the zero point in the machine, it immediately comes out. Could you opt in where it just pulls out, it stops a little short and it does a, you know, like, what would it be?
Uh, a 180 just to simply turn the pallet upside down to dump out any coolants that are in residual pockets, and then just go back to a zero. And they said, yeah, sure, we can do anything. And it's like, well, still waiting for that code. And now it's a fan control. You cannot edit. The con, it has what's, uh, called frames.
So it's like this is the [00:17:00] frame where it goes from this point to this point, and here's the waypoints. Yeah. But that's not user editable from our perspective. So yeah, I think, and I'm always gonna be an early adopter of new technology. This is new technology from Hawes, so I'm okay with being a Guinea pig.
Yeah, it is what it is. But Tell me nice stories about mature systems like your PC 10.
Andrew: Well, I mean, there's a lot of things. So we've, we've continued to have discussions with Matt, Sarah this week about the rotating a pallet in place option, and they're looking into quoting it for us.
Apparently some people told us it couldn't be field retrofit. Other people said it could be field retrofit. We're waiting for a clear answer on that. But. We probably are gonna build a little overhead rail system. . 'Cause I wanna be able to hoist heavier pallets out of the pallet pool anyway.
We don't, we're gonna have some pallets that are in there occasionally and I don't want them just living in the 10 pallet pool and taking up a space and they're not gonna be the kind of thing where I wanna be manhandling them out.
.
Andrew: Not only 'cause that wouldn't be safe, but because it'd be really easy [00:18:00] to drop one and then you've damaged your pallet and you have to make it potentially.
Yeah. So we're still working on that, but there are a lot of things that are. Very mature. The overall system, the pallet call, the interface on the machine control. It's nice, it's intuitive. It walks you through. It gives you a lot of good quality prompts. If you're not sure how to do something, it will normally help walk you through it.
.
But even there, there's just still so much stuff to learn and we're probably gonna need to beef up our air system. 'cause we've, when we've had like three or four brothers running and the Matsuura running. A couple times we've alarmed out the machines for low air pressure just because we don't have enough storage volume in the system that if we start to get low right, it takes too long to catch back up.
So we just bought an 80 gallon tank. Okay. And we're gonna buy a second 80 gallon tank and put one near the back of the building and one near the front. So we've got reservoirs of pressure, pressurized air. . And we are looking at potentially. [00:19:00] Upgrading one of our compressors when we move them from the current location in the middle of the building in Bay two to the new mechanical room in Bay four.
'Cause we have a five horse single phase casser and a seven and a half horse, three phase casser. And it might be time to retire the little five horse single phase machine and go to two, three phase machines. . So we've got a backup compressor and we have more CFM that we can. Produce. I love it.
And then that combined with a couple of storage tanks should give us plenty of volume in the system so that when we have high air consumption, 'cause on our twin pallet machines, if we've got Venturi based Pearson vacuum work holding, running on two tables at the same time.
.
On two or three different machines and we're running air blasts through the spindle on the Matsuura and like all these, you can be running a lot of air.
Oh yeah.
Jay: Oh, I love this 'cause I was a little late to this podcast. One of my guys caught me. 'cause we're revamping our air system. We basically put the [00:20:00] stuff down on the floor when we moved in with the intent of you know, just kinda like perfecting it later on. There's no such thing as perfect.
But, you know, like, I don't know. Just it, and we've had so many ideas over the years. Well, maybe what if we put the tanks outside? Oh, we gotta get a permit from the city. Well, what if we put 'em upstairs? What if we put the compressors upstairs? So here's I'm curious about this. Here's where we're at.
We got so tired of fighting the whole drop in pressure at our old shop. . It had two inch lines, two inch copper lines.
.
But it was a single feed. So the last machine at the end of the line, uh, which starve dude, it got no air. And it was like, and that was the machine that had like an air nozzle blow off.
It was our SD 30 Y lathe. That was a machine that runs lights out that better have great air flow to it. So, you know, when we built out the air system here, we had a looping system so the air can travel bi-directionally through the shop. So it kind of follows this large square. We brought over our seven and a half horsepower.
We had a [00:21:00] polar air compressor. .
Andrew: And it
Jay: was connected to, let's see, it was an 80 gallon tank and I wanted to upgrade it at our old shop. We had a 400 gallon tank outside that was part of the building. But that. Tank got choked because it was single flow airline.
.
Jay: And then so, you know, I went, well let's get a, a 240 gallon tank.
And then I thought at, at another point, let's get a second two 40 tank. So we have four 80 plus the extra, like, I think it's 35 gallons of capacity that the airlines alone. So we're over 500 gallons on capacity and we don't have any issues other than we only have one 20 horsepower compressor hooked up.
The seven and a half horsepower that we decommissioned, and we thought, well, let's change the oil and do all this stuff. We'll eventually plug it into the system. We've, that's been offline for now, almost four years. And I would say we've gotten lucky 'cause [00:22:00] compressors die, they stop for service. They lots of different issues, so.
Andrew: . I,
Jay: yeah,
Andrew: I would be nervous about not having redundancy in that critical piece of a shock.
Jay: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So I've been nervous for four years. It's one of those things that we've kind of gotten away with. Um, and, you know, you would hope that a. New 20 horsepower compressor. . Will work just fine for several years.
Yeah. We've kind of gotten away with it, but I would not put ourselves, yeah. You wanna
Andrew: buy a little five horse single face compressor? I put it out there. Yeah. I mean, We have not run into air volume con consumption problems before now Uhhuh, and we've never had anything other than the two built-in tanks on the tasers in the system.
And I think we're running inch and a half or one. That's what I have now. Yeah. Which is, yeah, we're not running huge lines. It's just rapid air, fast pipe. Yep. It had, it had not really been on my radar. That was a likely thing we were going to need to address, and so our initial response was just, okay.
Let's just, 'cause we typically run our pressures low. I think we were [00:23:00] running our system at like 1 0 3 or 1 0 5 . As our cutoff. So we bumped that up, you know, 10 12 PSI, to get a little more pressure in the system. . So we'd have a little more time for the machines to cycle back up before we fell low enough to alarm out any of the scene seas.
But yeah, getting all of our bays are in loops and all those loops can be individually disconnected without taking down the system.
Jay: Perfect.
Andrew: Which was great. I would never have thought of that. Brian, who's my facilities manager, when we first started putting fast Pipe, he said, I really wanna have a loop .
In every room. And I wanna be able to, I wanna be able to separate the loops out. You know, if I need to do work in Bay two . I wanna be able to bypass that loop and still feed Bay One. And I'm like, beautiful. That sounds amazing. Yeah. And fast Pipe is excellent. It's, it's easy, it's quick. It holds air.
Well, I've been very, very pleased with it. Yeah, that's great stuff. That's what we use. Inch and a half blue stuff. Right. But. Yeah. Blue stuff, but having a mechanical room means we're gonna have room for two compressors and a storage tank in that room. . And we are considering trying a different brand.
Uh, [00:24:00] Brian has been shopping Ingersoll Rand compressors. One of the biggest reasons is the closest support guy, I believe, for Kaser, for us, is a couple hours away, uh, or like hour and a half away. And the, uh, the place that we've worked with previously is outta Indy. We have not been super happy with them.
Not great service, not super responsive. Repeated mistakes in billing that we had to correct.
Mm man.
Um, stuff that was just like, you know, guys, this is not right. Yeah. We shouldn't be having to solve these problems and tell you what the issue is. Right. The, uh, Ingersoll guys are a lot closer.
. And Brian went and saw one of their units installed in another local business just down the street from us today. And he's like, it is way quieter than our gazers. I'm like, really? Interesting, huh?
Jay: Okay.
Andrew: Huh? Have
Jay: you
Andrew: considered, uh, Eaton compressor? That's, we looked at Eaton Polar, um .
Before we bought our first casser. And I wouldn't be opposed to looking at them again. I [00:25:00] didn't find anything about it particularly compelling at the time.
.
Andrew: But, you know, screw compressors, there's a lot of different approaches to them. They're all slightly different controls and slightly different layouts, and I.
The reason we went with Casser is 'cause I was getting ready to hire Brian and he had a lot of experience working on Big 20 Horse Caers.
.
And so was familiar with the controls, knew the maintenance schedule, was comfortable with all the filters and the O-rings and the various oils and things. And so I was like, look, I'll just get what you're familiar with.
By all means, let's keep it easy. I don't wanna learn how to do compressor maintenance. Yeah. That's not my. That's not my lane. Right. I have no business. Like I need to know how to drain it and turn it on, turn it off, and clear basic alarms and change some filters here and there. But other than that, like I do not need to be opening up the control panel on that machine and messing around with anything.
Jay: Yeah, I agree. It's not why you got into business to, to think, man, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a holster company and I can't wait to do compressor methods. Yeah. Air compressor service. Yeah. We went with, uh, Eaton Polar just because I could buy 'em [00:26:00] online. I looked at some of the other brands and yes, they did offer support and stuff like that, but I go, gosh, this is, I mean, rotary compressors are pretty darn reliable.
It's a fairly simple you know, geometry, architecture, product, you know, that type of thing. Uh, I was really happy with them. As long as you keep up with regular maintenance, oil changes, filter changes, all that good stuff. I'm definitely at a disadvantage being here on the west coast because they're based out of, uh, Ohio, I believe.
Yep. And so parts, and of course the time zone change, it's always tricky now and then, like if I called right now in the afternoon, they're, they're just not there. Yeah. So, I don't know. I just looked it up for a 20 horsepower, three phase 2 0 8 compressor, variable speed, which is what we have. And it says 115 CFM dryer.
I don't think that's accurate, but right at eight grand. I think we paid like 7,500.
Andrew: Yeah. So the value, the value seemed great. There was nothing about the systems that I looked at and was like, wow, this seems to be like a better system in any way. . And so going with the most known quantity that we could.
[00:27:00] Where Brian could do all the maintenance and not have to learn a new system. Sure. That was real attractive to me.
Jay: Yeah. Well, I mean, when I bought my first Doosan with John, I'm like, great, you start on, you know, uh, what was it, December 15th or something? I. You've worked on what brand? Uh, de woo Doosan. I guess that's what I'm buying.
And, yeah. 'cause it's not worth the lack of familiarity, especially back then trying to hit the ground running. So, yeah. So how do you shop? Standardization man. Oh, shop Standardization. Huge lean point. I love it. So quick, quickly, you have two compressors running. Are they linked together?
Andrew: The controls are not linked.
They are connected to a shared air system, okay? And they are set with staggered pressure triggers. So the seven and a half horses are main, the five is our backup. And they have, they're set about 10 PSI apart. Okay. In terms of when they switch on. So if the main gets more demand than it can keep up with and it drops below a certain point, the second [00:28:00] compressor also kicks on and both of them charge the system and then the backup shuts off sooner.
Jay: Got it. Okay. So use real numbers. Let's start at 90 PSI.
Andrew: So I, I think we, when we had our system set at like 1 0 3 or 1 0 5, the main compressor was kicking on at like 95, 96, and the secondary compressor was kicking on if we got down to like 89. Okay. Okay. And it was just so that if, hey, if we're, if we're in danger of bottoming this out and alarming something out, let's get both compressors going and recharge faster.
That's, but for compressors like HVAC units, like there's, there is a. You want them to have longer cycles, A lot of rapid on, quick charge up and quick shutdown. . Is actually less good for the machine That's right. Than getting it to run some longer cycles.
.
And so on the weekends, if I'm here on Saturday, I don't work Sundays, but if I'm here on Saturdays by myself, I only turn on the backup compressor.
Okay. And that way it gets a full day of use. It's running constantly. [00:29:00] It gets longer cycles. It's charging the system by itself. Yeah. On weekdays, when we've got multiple CNCS running at once, we keep 'em both on. That makes sense.
Jay: I like that.
Andrew: For Caers, you can't interconnect the controls, like you can link them and have more integrated control over them.
We haven't done that. We just set pressure triggers that are offset.
Jay: Yeah. That's so much more simple. I love that. Yeah. 'cause we were gonna do that when we have both compressors online, but you know what and then measuring duty cycle measuring capacity, like I. It. I knew it wasn't going to be easy.
Yes, you can link the PLCs, but that's just one more thing, but I really, I've never heard that. I really like that. Where it's just like, Hey, this kicks on when it's like in emergency mode.
Andrew: Yeah. If we drop two, we need to charge back up. The main one kicks back on. If we drop two out, we're really low.
Like we're at almost on empty here. Then the second one also kicks on and . Gives the assist until we're back up to a safe range and then it shuts off again.
Jay: Yeah. So on your earlier point I think I'm remembering this correctly, but when we got our 20 horsepower, we set it to a fairly [00:30:00] high pressure.
So it would always be the low would be around one 20. Okay. And the high was about 1 45. And so we would have a master regulator on our pipe. So, so to map it out, you have the compressor. It goes to a, what's called a wet tank, which is an 80, 80 gallon tank. Then it went to our dryer. 'cause you want a consistent flow.
You don't wanna blast of air through the dryer. It's just less effective. . So it went from the 80 and then it went through the dryer. It's a a hundred, I think it's 115 CFM dryer. And then that went into, at initially the 240 gallon tank, now 480 tanks. And then that went to a shop wide, you know, large, like, I think it's like a two inch diameter.
Outlet regulator that we have it set to 115 PSI. So shot pressure is one 15, but we'll never see one 15 on the inlet side because there it will definitely come on at one 20 and then it's, the only [00:31:00] time it goes lower is if those 2, 2 40 gallon tanks actually, there's a huge draw where it draws 'em down.
So that's actually worked out pretty well. But then we were talking, Carlos and I were talking about like. Ping ponging to, to, you know, kind of balance duty cycle between them. And it just got too complex and I said, just leave it disconnected. We'll tackle it, you know, next month. And it ended up being about four years later, so a few years later.
Yeah. So, so what about you? Tell me about the Matsuura. I mean, here we're, you're several months into it, right? So yesterday,
Andrew: Well we are. Less than a month or almost exactly less than a month into having it in operate in, in, in operation commissioned. Yes.
.
Andrew: Yesterday I cashed the first check for a production job that we had run, complete and delivered off the Matsuura.
And that felt, that felt good. That's awesome. Now, anytime you have, you have machines that are this expensive. Like one job makes a little dent in your monthly payment. Okay. You're not like, oh man, [00:32:00] and we ran this one job and it paid for the machine for the months. Like, no. Well, we ran that job and that job took like a day to run.
Yeah, right. And so that puts a dent. But there's still a sizable machine payment left to work off this month. Sure. But it's been really fun. The 20 KRPM spindle is sonically unpleasant to be near. I it's loud. It has kind of a high pitched wine to it.
. I
mean, it sounds normal.
It's productive. I've data girls, we had say what
Jay: I've dated girls like that. But go ahead.
Andrew: Uh, but it, but I've been wearing I've been wearing Ear Pro in Bay one a lot more.
Okay.
Typically I wear Ear Pro whenever I'm running a machine, but if I'm sitting over at my computer and someone's running a machine, but I'm not directly in front of it, I don't as all as often wear Ear Pro or I don't notice it if I'm not.
And I've been basically keeping mine in all the time when the Matsuura is running just because it's a, it's loud, but it's also a particular pitch in resonance that. Bothers me if I don't have some ear protection on, and that can just be headphones. I can be listening to music. I'm not like wearing foam plugs [00:33:00] and then muffs over top and then a giant fishbowl over my head.
Right. But, uh, did, did that catch you off guard? Is that like a known issue? I recall issue just actually, yes. Yes. At least a couple Matsuura Owners, uh, ahead of time said, Hey, the 15 K spindle is relatively quiet. The 20 K spindle, that 15 to 20 difference. A lot of volume increase there. But it seems like Matsuura the 15 K spindle is a relatively uncommon option since the 20 became available
Uhhuh.
And so they don't stock that machine very much with the 15 K spindle. We did talk to one other owner who is getting some kind of sound dampening kit that Matsuura is experimenting with, okay. Installed on their machine to see if they can attenuate some of that noise. Now we have acoustical panels on our ceiling.
We could put probably three or more. Panels directly over and around the Matsuura to help tame some more of that sound.
.
Andrew: we haven't ordered a Spindled noise dampening kit for Matsuura. But we're waiting to see how other shop owners who might try it [00:34:00] like it and see if it is worth investing in later in the future.
Jay: So when you say acoustical panels, I've seen the photos of your shop. Is it just like drop ceiling office, you know?
Andrew: No, these are, these are, s what are they? I think they're,
Jay: they're actually noise attenuating.
Andrew: Yeah, they're, yeah. Okay. They're from a TS acoustics. They are two inch thick fiberglass panels.
Right. Okay. And I think they're three by two by six or three by six. Okay. And they are acoustical treatment panels. We bought a bunch of 'em and hung them in the seal from the ceiling. . And they definitely help attenuate higher frequency noises. I've mentioned this before. It's one of the only things I don't like about our building is that it is in Bay one and bay two.
The walls are sheet metal. . And that just means you are in a bathtub. Yeah. In Bay three where we have exposed insulation . In most of the walls in the ceiling, bay three is wonderfully quiet. You walk into Bay three and just like, oh, it's, it's quiet in you. This is nice. . In bay one and two, unpleasant [00:35:00] sounds.
Don't have a place to get absorbed. Really? Yeah. So adding more sound absorption will make a big difference. Yeah.
Jay: You know when, when I moved into my building shop floor, probably about just under 9,000 square feet, and it was wild when it was totally empty, very difficult to just have a conversation because it was so equity.
So you've got four concrete walls, a concrete floor, and a ceiling with no acoustic treatment. It's a, this thin, um. Metalized, almost like paper. It's, junk. But, and you would have a conversation. It's just you're dealing with the echoes. If the, the person you're speaking to turned away from you, faced away with you, you could barely hear them.
Yep. Or it was just cluttered. And then when we moved everything in, it's amazing that not noise attenuation, but just noise diffuse. Yep. Just made it where wow, we can talk and have a normal conversation because we're not hearing echoes. It's getting broken up. It was night and day. And I actually took that into deep consideration.
'cause we always wanna [00:36:00] make a, a, beautiful, wonderful place to work and noise, if you call it noise pollution. I don't think it is noise pollution, but just, it's just an irritant. Yeah. Is this something I think shops should, should tackle? So it's neat that you, you did those panels. I like that.
Andrew: We'd like to Do we are going to add some more.
Jay: Yeah.
Andrew: And they actually make a four inch version, a thicker version that has better absorption. We just didn't do those at the start Uhhuh, but yeah, it is just like having good lighting, right? Clean bathrooms, good lighting, and an acoustically pleasant space as much as possible.
Oh yeah.
Manufacturing is. Almost never going to be silent. Right. It's rarely going to be quiet. . But it shouldn't be unbearably loud. Like I've been in other shops where it's just like, oh, like my senses are being assaulted by being in here. Like, it's misty, it's smoky, it's oily and stinky, and everything that I touch is kind of greasy and the whole place is just loud and unpleasant.
. *Yeah. Like it's the difference between going and hearing live music. In *[00:37:00] *a space with a good sound system and a good audio engineer where it can be loud. . But it doesn't sound bad, right? Yeah. And then you go hear potentially even a quieter gig in a place with worse acoustics or worse system.*
*And you know, an amateur, a volunteer sound engineer has no idea what they're doing. And it's like, this isn't loud, but it hurts like right. It is unpleasant. Yeah. *
Jay: Yeah. There was, um, so we've ran this tool successfully. Sounds like I'm throwing them under the bus, but I haven't, we've made lots of money from this tool, but the sheer hog from AB tools.
. Awesome, awesome metal removal rates. It's brutal. You know, it almost looks like a weapon, but it is so loud that at one point I was sitting in the office and you're, I'm not catching the direct sound. But just the ambient sound of hearing it out on the shop floor behind two closed doors. It just hit a frequency and I said, dude, I can't take it anymore.
We're going to get a custom mill. So Mill. Yeah. And, and it, it really helped. 'cause it does, it does. It's an insert tool. So yeah, it's got a What size [00:38:00] sheer help were you running? Inch and a half. Okay. So it wasn't huge, but still it was, I wanna say it was, yeah, I think it was still a two flute tool. Yeah. I think I can still picture a two flute.
It's just like if you were to slow it down, it's a high impact as it hits, as it enters the cut. And so we just went and just had a, large, you know, inch and a half n mill. No, no, actually we just went to a standard off the shelf, like, um, three quarter inch n Mill with the. A chip breaker and I said just run this as fast as you can.
And even that, 'cause it had a, about a 40, 35 or 40 45 degree, you know, flute angle. Just the fact that it was that much quieter . Was appreciated. Not like no one said, Hey Jay, thanks for swapping out that tool, but. We just noticed it was gone and that type of thing. Or maybe we didn't notice that it was gone, but when we ran it again, it's like, oh, there's that tool again.
And that's, that's a thing like I felt kind of sheepish saying publicly, I don't like ha's lathes because they're loud and whiny [00:39:00] and they are, and I've told Haws about this. And they're like, yeah, we know it. And they've come out with different acoustical treatments on the inside of their machine, but it still comes down to a belt-driven design that, um, is very different than.
You know, the DN solutions, you know what used to be, uh, Doosan. But no, it is a factor which we should care about as our, you know, our working environment as owners.
Andrew: Yeah.
Jay: Noise
Andrew: is shockingly fatiguing. It is, yeah. If you are, if you're not, even if you're not particularly conscious of it, too much noise in the wrong kinds of noise can just.
They can raise, like I've mentioned this before, when we first got our lathe, I'd never worked in a lathe shop and that like kind of heavy, loud, slow spool up of the main spo Yes. Like if a brother makes that noise. Something is dreadfully wrong. Right. And so for the first couple weeks we had our doussan lathe.
Every time Chris fired it up, whether I was listening to music, had earplugs in whatever, I would [00:40:00] immediately stop what I was doing. Like, what's that? What's that? What's going wrong?
Yeah.
Oh, it's* just the lathe. It's just the lathe. Oh, gosh. And you gradually, you do gradually learn to tune those things out.*
*But also the same way when we, going back to lean, when we clean, when we sweep and sort. It isn't just because we want organized workspaces, but because cleaning our spaces allows us to recognize problems, find broken tools, find dropped in lost hardware, see fluid leaks around machines and in in an acoustically cluttered environment.*
*Critical information that your ears could give you about a process like. Hey, I'm hearing, I'm hearing something grinding. I'm hearing something slipping. Right. I'm hearing something catching, I'm hearing something. I'm hearing a hum. I'm not used to hearing. *
Yeah.
*You know, I'm hearing whatever. *
*Yeah. *
*Some harmonic, some squeal that, yeah.*
*Yeah. I, yeah. Anything you become *[00:41:00] *acoustically blind to those things if there's too much background noise and actually the way that I close down my shop at the end of the day, if I'm the last one out, which I often am. Is I turn off all the lights, I shut down the compressors, and I walk through the entire shop once in the dark.*
. And that allows me to see any status lamps, any machine controls, anything. Anything that's still powered and lit that shouldn't be is a little bright light in the dark, but also, and everything's off. There shouldn't be any sound. The number of times I've found minor air leaks. Doing a dark walkthrough at the end of, at the end of the day, I'm like, I hear something hissing.
Love it. And if even a computer were running next to me right now, Uhhuh and it's cooling fans, were going, I wouldn't hear this hiss, but with everything off, I hear hiss and I can track it down, find it, note it, and then we can fix it.
Jay: Right. I'd love that,
Andrew: like that idea of going through and, and a number of times I've found things that I left on or that other left on where a machine, you know, it got powered down, but the breaker didn't get thrown.
[00:42:00] So the machine was still, still had power. . Or you know, a light over here got left on, or that machine got left on. That dark walkthrough takes less than two minutes. It's really quick. . Just walk to the back of the building, shut the lights off in each bay as you go, and do a really quick walk around.
And I keep a flashlight in my pocket, so I'm not gonna like trip over stuff.
.
But it is such a useful tool. Yeah. Listening in my environment and hearing what's actually happening, like, Hey, that cut doesn't sound good, or like, yeah.
Jay: It really is valuable. It's another information point I had.
I had such a, and I didn't tell the guys this, and if they're listening, you know, good job guys. But I had such a proud moment a few weeks ago. I was standing there and I'm talking with my, you know, couple of my senior guys, John and Alex, and we were, we were talking at Alex's rolling computer stationary.
He programs. There was, uh, our VF two Ss was right next to us, and Paul was operating, I think Paul was, he wasn't around. He may have been on break or something, [00:43:00] and the machine was taking a cut and we're like, that don't sound right. Like, all of us kinda looked over and, uh, John gave me the look, like, what do you want me to do?
And I said just feed, hold it. And oh, I, I remember exactly what it was. He feed holds it. And it was a new fixture that we had designed. That the part had just shifted a little high in, we were using like a, a pit bull clamp. Yep. So it, it was cutting on the perimeter and the floor of the part, and it *gave this like weird harmonic thing.*
*. Like I'm cutting with the bottom of my end mill and the side of my end mill at the same time. And and we just knew the three of us experienced machinists. We've all got probably collectively 67 years of machining experience, you know. Then right around the corner, Paul comes around and he goes, yeah, that, that didn't sound right.*
*I'm like, yeah. So now here's four individuals in a, in a competent company that knew it didn't sound right, all while we're having a conversation engrossed in like a, a new product we're designing. *[00:44:00] *So *
Andrew: yeah, the. I've been able to hear like when a thermoformed plastic part is on a vacuum fixture and for some reason the vacuum fails.
Oh, yeah. You hear the change in the hiss. I love that. It's subtle. Yeah. But all of a sudden you have a slightly higher pitch and you have more throughput. Yeah. More air is flowing. And the ability to hear those little things. One of my guys jokingly says, you got, you have ears like a bat. Like *from across the room I heard one of the coolant pumps, cavitate.*
*And I'm like, oh, we're carrying off too many chips in this run. We need to top up the cool on that machine. And he's like, so great. You heard that? That's so great. I love it. I'm, I just, I just heard that little verbal gle Yeah. Of the, of the coolant pump slrp, catch a little bit of air. Yeah. And love it. I often don't notice what I'm hearing until something changes, and it's just like when you drive your spouse's car and or they drive yours, and it's like, is it supposed to make that sound?*
*Is that, is that normal? How long has* it been [00:45:00] like this, sweetie? Well, I, I, I took my son out driving in my little 1978 Triumph Spitfire on Saturday. 'cause the weather was gorgeous and that car is unfamiliar enough to me. I've owned it for less than a year, and I've not driven it that much and I've not taken it up to high speeds.
And so it's just like, . It's a sonically unknown, unfamiliar environment. I see. And I'm like, is it supposed to sound like that at 2,500 RPM? Is that what third year sounds like? Is that, you know, is everything I'm trying to get oriented to it, right? Yeah. But on the car I drive every day.
I know exactly how it sounds. . Everything I can, I can tell you what drive mode the car is in. By when it shifts by sound. . Without looking at the totter.
Yeah.
Love it. I I love getting that familiar with things.
Jay: Yeah. I was just thinking when that happened in the shop, that story, it's just you know, your team is functioning at such a [00:46:00] high, like, elite level.
John Saunders on his channel, N-Y-C-C-N-C-I, I can't remember if it was a bloopers edition, but, you know, he had his training classes. I think he's discontinued it. He ran up to one of the tour mocks and did this awesome like sliding stop as he hit e-stop. Do you remember?
Does that sound familiar? I don't. Okay. Yeah. And it was because it was students that just thought, well, I, I programmed the machine. I, I pressed cycle star and he ran up and it was taking a horrible, awful cut, you know? And that was obvious. But I've had like one, one guy Elliot he, now he's in law enforcement, but he was working for me.
They put him on mills for one day just to give him a shot just to expose it. And like, I don't know, probably the single digit number of part that he did. He just didn't close the clamps on, on a fixture. . And, um, horrible like thing. And, and I walked by and they, I don't think they purposely tried to hide it from me, but, you know, Alex said, okay, you can go back to assembly.
That type of thing. But the only reason that, the only way that I [00:47:00] found out was I walked by the scrap bin and here's this large piece, I think they were making mini pallet system bases, and it had this horrible tool path. It looked like the Grand Canyon had, you know, cut it groove. I went, what happened there?
And they just said, Elliot. I'm like, well, he's not machin again. And he never went back. But it was one of those things that we took for granted that like, hey, these are experienced guys that know what a good cut, a bad cut sounds like, and a horrific cut. And how do you teach that? You just can't you just have to learn through failure and just, just get in time in front of the machine.
Andrew: *Yeah I've definitely made some mistakes, forgotten a screw here or there, or not tightened a vice properly and. That, trying to find ways to close that loop. . So that you can't run the machine. . If you haven't properly locked everything up. I really do like vacuum.*
*. For the particular reason of, you have a full vacuum indicator. . Like. You *[00:48:00] *don't have to go. What's the torque spec on this again? You're just like, yeah, I turn it on and it's binary. *
*Yeah, it *
*has sealed. It's on or *off. Yeah. And I can instantly look into the machine while it's running, and if that has failed for any reason, you see it, you stop it, you're done.
Yeah.
Jay: . This podcast brought to you by the Smart Vac Vacuum System by Pearson Workholding?
Andrew: , But that idea, and even like the VAC magic has a little lateral pin that sucks into the base. .
And one of our lean improvements was I built all these different size aluminum subplates that top onto the vac magic and have different. Different size VAX zones, but the same shared pin, uh, alignments to minimum. So I can, based on my stock size, choose the small, medium, or large subplate and just slap my part on.
It's al it's always gonna be center around, center and then go to town. But the larger subplates obstructed my view of the pin. Oh. So I could, turn it on and I could sort of tip my head in when the door was open and look under the subplate and see the side of [00:49:00] the base and see whether that indicator pin was in or out.
When I was in cycle, I couldn't see it. I see. And so I just printed some bright, a little bright red magnet flag that sticks on and lengthens the pin just enough where if it pokes out I set it up so that when it's sealed, it is flush with the edge of the sub palate above it. And if it sticks out at all, I know the VAC is starting to fail, and if it pops out, I know it's off.
Jay: .
Wow. I like that. And yeah, that
Andrew: little, that little change of making that indicator more visible from the operator position has saved me a number of times. . I love that from doing dumb stuff. Yeah. And keeping the tool in the cut when I should not. Right. Pokey yo. Mistake proofing. Oh, nice. Lean trick.
Last funny thing. Pookey messed up two little fixture plates for the Matsuura. We put in a pokey oak hole. That was a just I don't know exactly what happened, but it was a little bit too small. [00:50:00] And there's a pokey oak pin, which is basically just a socket cap screw . In the HWR plate. And we put these two on and we decked them.
Everything was good. And we went to take 'em off and they were like stuck on the pallet fixture. We're like, oh man. Did, like, did we not put these zero point pins in the right place? Was our pattern off? Or like measuring? All that had happened was we had slightly undersized the pokey oak bore on the under underside and just had a little bit of an interference fit with like the top eighth of an inch of that socket cap screw.
Yeah. Right. So everything would line up by hand when you're installing it and then you torque down and you suck the base down. And it would just start to bind. On the pokey oak pin and we could not figure out, like we were measuring and double checking. And they we're like, what's the size of that pokey hole?
And we were just a couple a, a couple foul off and the hole was champed, it was barely touching. Sure. The socket cap screw just enough to be like, this is stuck now. Yeah. And and it's like the dumbest
Jay: little thing the head of the [00:51:00] screw is, is got like a neural on it. Right? Yeah. So it went on good enough.
But yeah. Yeah,
Andrew: it was, we were racking our brains a couple days ago, like. Why are these, like, are it was we, we'd just gotten a new batch of studs, Uhhuh. We were like, are the studs outta spec? Like, you know, so we were swapping studs on and off, known good fixtures. Like, okay take four studs off that one.
Put 'em on here. Take these four studs, put 'em on there, put 'em back. No, it's still sticking. Yeah. Is our, are the, are our holes slightly out of plum? Are, are our studs like canted one way or the other? You know what's going on? It was the
Jay: Pokey Oaks screen. Uh, it's, Hey man, I love it when it's something simple though, you know?
So we, we get over the years, at least clearance holds
Andrew: me Clearance.
Jay: Yes. Clearance. That's why they're called clearance. No, we've had, we've had customers that say, Hey I'm at my wit's end. I'm using your pallets system. It was working fine. I can't get pallets to come off. We've had to use a crowbar.
And I'm like, no, no. Pick up the phone before you pick up a crowbar. And one customer [00:52:00] put slapped on like lithium grease all over it. I mean, it was it, it had more grease than it had like, original color on it, like black and red. Yeah. And um, you know, a part of me is like, I laugh at it. Another part of me is like, man, what are we doing to communicate the solution easier?
And another part's like this is just like, oh man, I wish they just would've called sooner. Most of the time, like our pallet system requires a hundred PSI minimum to fully disengage the locking elements.
.
And most people like, you know, when I take calls, you know, say, they'll say, you know, the pins are sticky 'cause it rocks.
Well, I know it feels sticky. Can you just check your air pressure? No, it's fine. You know, sir, can you just do me a favor it's step one in troubleshooting. It just needs to be, just aim for 1 0 5. No, no, no. Our shop Air one 40. Can you just do that? 'cause I've been doing this a long time.
That's the issue. All right, hold on. They come back after a few minutes. I'm so sorry. Our shop air pressure was at one [00:53:00] 40. On this particular machine, the guy said it's too high, it's doing this blow off. He lowered it down to 90 PSI. I'm so sorry. Don't worry. It's fine. Now try. It's fine. It's good. It unlocks just fine.
This is why I have you do that type of stuff, so.
Andrew: Yeah. Yep. Well, I gotta run. One last victory this past week was I'm learning, I'm trying to learn a new programming software for our, some of our sewing machines. And the software is not good. . It's unintuitive, it's hard to use. And I actually use chat.
GPTI dumped the entire manual in the chat, GPT, and then gradually worked through a series of questions and built myself a one page, how to get started cheat sheet. That is way more accessible than trying to plow through the manual on its own. And so it, that has inspired me to want to take basically all the documentation for all of our machines that we have in digital form and train, chat GBT instances on it.
So. Even if I'm not asking it to answer my question, only help me locate where in the manual this question is addressed. . [00:54:00] That would be super useful, and if I can access that from my phone. Yeah. Basically have curated access through chat GPT. To preloaded machine manuals. That could be a game changer.
It's have to go, I
Jay: love that. Open
Andrew: the PDF on my laptop and then bring the laptop over to the machine. I can just search it.
Jay: Yeah. That is so good. I never thought about that. Just bring in A
Andrew: PDF.
Jay: So learn it. Yeah. Love that. Wow. We're gonna, we're
Andrew: gonna try messing with that by, by next week. I'm hoping to have some more work done in that vein to see if we can make.
Obviously trust but verify. . Sure. I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna say, oh yeah the chat g but he just told me to do this, this, this and this and this. And then, you know, hard restart the machine. Like I know if I have questions I'm gonna call my tech. But when it comes to working through a lot of basic things having some software curate the approved information .
So I can find my way to the correct answer more easily. Super [00:55:00] helpful.
Jay: I love that. We don't normally do morning meetings tomorrow, but I think I might just add that because , we've given the machinist a, you know, a, a paid GPT account. They should do that. They should dump all the manuals for the grinder grinders, the lays the robot in it, and just a learn this.
Yep. That's awesome. Give it a whack. Love it. Good to talk to you, Jay. Have a great night. See you next week. Bye.