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Lounge Lizards is a weekly premium cigar podcast covering Cuban and non-Cuban cigars, cigar reviews, cigar news, Habanos, spirits pairings, cigar culture, and the business of the premium cigar industry.
Hosted by Gizmo with Rooster, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Bam Bam and the rest of the Lizards, the show combines long-form cigar discussion with honest reviews, industry news, history, travel, spirits, collecting, and conversations with the people shaping the cigar world.
Each episode typically centers around a featured cigar and spirits pairing, with regular coverage of brands including Padrón, Davidoff, Arturo Fuente, Cohiba, Montecristo, Tatuaje, Foundation and more.
Lounge Lizards isn’t a traditional cigar review show. It’s a group of friends sitting around the table, smoking cigars, sharing opinions, telling stories and trying to make sense of the culture and industry around them.
New episodes are released every Tuesday.
Join Lizard Nation and become a card-carrying Lounge Lizard yourself. Email hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and potentially be featured on an upcoming episode.
Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica5. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium scars as well as whiskey travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight, I'm joined by Rooster, Senator, Agoda, chef Ricky, and Bam Bam.
Gizmo:And I plan to smoke a cigar, drink some scotch, talk about life, and, of course, have some laughs. So take this as your two hundred and fifty fifth official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard, likely to see it once a week. We're gonna smoke a Nicaraguan cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating. We discuss a new patented ashtray that cools your cigar. A Lizard listener shares a recap of the InterTabac twenty twenty six trade show, and we discuss my recent interview with Mitch on the Cigar Soldier Podcast, all among a variety of other things for the next two hours.
Gizmo:So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, enjoy as we pair 12 years age, Glengoyne's single malt Scotch whiskey with the foundation, the wise man Corojo in Toro. A Nicaraguan poro on the pod tonight, boys. It's a Toro from Foundation. It's called the Wise Man Corojo in Toro. It's a 52 ring gauge cigar by six inches long.
Gizmo:And boys, we are back to Foundation. I think this is the fifth we're doing, and I have not had this cigar. We were just talking about it.
Pagoda:Yes, you have.
Gizmo:Senator, you suggested this after we got these cigars at PCA and you smoked it.
Senator:Yeah, it was good. And I've had the Guegense and the Wise Man, and this new blend, it was really solid.
Bam Bam:I liked it as well. I had it right after the show. I thought you had this too. I did not. I did
Gizmo:not smoke it. I mean, I got one like we all did, but I did not smoke it, so I'm sure I have
Bam Bam:it somewhere in a bag, but... Pagoda forgot that he smoked it.
Pagoda:Yeah, you know, for the amount I used to smoke, Foundation. Yeah. It's been so long since I've really picked one up. Yeah. You know, I was just thinking about it.
Pagoda:I really wanted to go back to the Tabernacle again. Do they still have it?
Bam Bam:Yeah, Tabernacle's still around. That's a good cigar.
Rooster:Yeah. Smells really good.
Bam Bam:It does. The wrapper. Right? Very subtle.
Gizmo:It's a good looking cigar. Feels good in hand. Nice band on it.
Bam Bam:Getting like a bread y
Gizmo:Not like a
Rooster:sweet, sweet aroma.
Bam Bam:Tastes the aroma for me.
Chef Ricky:Getting a slight all spice.
Bam Bam:Very faint. I'd go with that.
Gizmo:Yep. Alright, boys. Let's cut this thing. See what we're getting on the cold draw. And we already talked about the wrapper.
Chef Ricky:Hey, Rooster. Since we're on this bus together now, could you put your tools here in the center so we could share them?
Gizmo:For the listener, if you didn't hear last week, our entire setup has been rearranged.
Rooster:Sorry. No
Gizmo:sharing. And chef and Rooster are now sharing a elephant colored couch, as BAM called
Bam Bam:it. Correct. Almost rhinoceros skinned.
Gizmo:Yes. Okay. The cold draw
Bam Bam:is fantastic. This is fruit cake. Yeah. All the way fruit cake.
Pagoda:Who are you talking about here? Oh, right. It's alright.
Bam Bam:It's Italian fruit cake.
Pagoda:Focus. It's going to be one
Gizmo:of those nights, I
Pagoda:can tell.
Bam Bam:Focus. Focus. This is a delicious cold draw.
Chef Ricky:Angelica. We spoke about that fruit before.
Gizmo:That's correct, man.
Chef Ricky:That's what you get there. Fantastic. I don't know if that's a fruit. That's actually a stalk. It's probably more related to celery than fruit.
Chef Ricky:Or rhubarb. Or rhubarb. Correct. You
Gizmo:getting rhubarb, Senator?
Pagoda:These are these are all American.
Gizmo:Fruits. Alright, boys.
Bam Bam:It's really quite good.
Gizmo:Let's light this thing. The foundation, the wise man Corojo in Toro. Again, it's a 52 ring gauge cigar by six inches long. Nicaraguan poro coming out of the My Father Factory, which is different. Changed it up a couple years ago.
Gizmo:We'll talk about that. The MSRP on this cigar is $12.50.
Pagoda:Not bad at all. We got it closer to 10. Budget friendly.
Gizmo:These cigars come in boxes of 20.
Bam Bam:The cold draw's lovely.
Gizmo:Nice start.
Bam Bam:So good.
Senator:We're a little past
Bam Bam:I'm the cold sorry.
Gizmo:I was gonna let it go.
Pagoda:No. It's a hot draw now. Retro...
Gizmo:Bam's headphones are throwing them off tonight.
Bam Bam:The retrohale's lovely. Yeah. Delicious.
Gizmo:It is nice in the light. So the blend on this cigar, we know it's a poro, but the wrapper is Nicaraguan Corojo 99. Of course, that's lending to the name. The binders are from Esteli and Jalapa. The fillers are from Esteli, Jalapa, and Condega.
Gizmo:Again, this is made in the My Father Cigars factory in Esteli, Nicaragua. And this cigar was released in 2024. So we were at PCA when this was released. It was a big news story
Bam Bam:Yep.
Gizmo:That Nick Muella was moving a lot of his tobacco, the cigar operation production to a different factory. I think it was from Aga Norsa to my father and spread it out. And this cigar replaced his original line, the El Wawensee. And obviously, that translated to the wise man, and that's what we have in our hand now. So the El Wawensee is gone.
Gizmo:This is a totally new blend, totally new idea, and we are on to the wise men now.
Senator:Did we review the
Gizmo:old blender now? We did. Okay. We did.
Rooster:I remember it being a little fuller than this. It was. Correct. It doesn't taste like a Nicaraguan.
Bam Bam:No.
Senator:It tastes Honduran.
Gizmo:It's pretty light in a nice way.
Senator:Yeah, in a really good way.
Rooster:Good flavor. Good wide open construction. The draw is good.
Bam Bam:Beautiful wrapper. Handsome cigar.
Gizmo:What kind of notes are you guys getting?
Chef Ricky:I'm getting some nuttiness that for me is very reminiscent of a Cuban cigar right now. It feels mild. Creamy. Very light, light cocoa, creamy and nuttiness is what I'm getting.
Gizmo:I think you nailed it.
Senator:I'm getting all that and just a bit of cedar.
Bam Bam:Interesting band design.
Gizmo:What do you think of it?
Bam Bam:Yeah. Don't think I'm a fan.
Senator:Really?
Bam Bam:I don't know.
Pagoda:I think it looks good.
Bam Bam:I like the color combinations. Do... I just... I don't know. Something about it's bothering me.
Senator:I actually don't like most of his bands, but I actually think this one is nice.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It's kinda got like that
Senator:Usually, they have illustrations of random things in the middle, like the tabernacle has some medieval looking character, like this is simpler, which I Aztec.
Bam Bam:Kind of.
Pagoda:This is like a crest for European wars, I think. Think BAM's going through a little bit of
Rooster:Medieval times. The flavor is very good. Yeah. I mean, for the price of the cigar and the size This is a lot
Gizmo:of tobacco.
Rooster:Mean, that's a... Yeah.
Gizmo:It's good value.
Bam Bam:Y'all draw is wide open.
Gizmo:It's just a little bit of resistance. Like, it's not too wide open.
Bam Bam:Mine is a touch too wide open.
Pagoda:Yeah, it feels that way, right? Yeah, because
Bam Bam:I'm not
Chef Ricky:a fan
Bam Bam:of that. I do like a little resistance.
Pagoda:I think the old Grunta had a little, like more of a resistance in this draw. Yeah. Because I remember when I smoked that, I'd had the aging room at some point in time, and I said, Oh my Lord, the aging room is such a wide open drawer. Like, it just feels like the air just flows through. And I didn't really like a lot of the wide open drawers at that point in time.
Pagoda:I prefer the resistance. Yeah, but this is slightly different from that in terms of
Gizmo:the drawer. So let's talk about the story in the cigar, boys. So when Nick Mallela launched Foundation in 2015, the very first cigar was the El Wavence, which was produced at Aga Nor Salif. It was a Nicaraguan poro with Corojo wrapper just like this one and became one of the cigars, if not the cigar, that established their identity. In early twenty twenty four, Foundation ended production of both El Wawense and the existing Wise Man Maduro at Aga Norsa and then moved production to the My Father Factory and Foundation introduced two entirely new blends, the Corojo we're smoking and there's also the Wise Man Maduro.
Gizmo:So the name Elhuwense, of course, translating to the wise man comes from Nahautl, n a h a u t l. I can't pronounce that. N a h a u t l.
Chef Ricky:Forgot about it. It's like Nahuatl. Yeah. It's like some form of Aztec dialect or something like that, right? The people.
Rooster:You don't speak the Inca?
Senator:Aztec. Aztec
Gizmo:again. I've been studying it, but I'm not quite there yet. Maybe the next time we do the Maduro.
Pagoda:Knowing him, he's some relation to Connecticut. You know how he's always been very adamant about.
Senator:All those Aztecs in Connecticut.
Pagoda:I don't know, but you know, there must be some indigenous tribe or something.
Gizmo:So the name refers to the famous Nicaraguan folkloric literary work that inspired the original cigar. So it comes from a book. Foundation changed the mythology around the current line. The present branding on this cigar tells the story of the queen of Sheba and king Solomon, whose son Menelik is presented as the wise man, pulling wise men aesthetically toward foundations, broader Ethiopian Solomonic themes found in brands like Tabernacle and Oxen. So what's interesting about this is the move to my father.
Gizmo:I remember at the PCA show that year, it was a big story in kind of the chitchat around the show. That foundation was entirely moving their production. And I think some other folks moved from Aga Norsa at that time as well. So I don't know what the reason was.
Pagoda:Yeah.
Gizmo:But I remember you remember this. I remember a lot of folks talking about this and other folks moving their production from Aganorsa to other places. So obviously, A. J. Got a lot of that work.
Gizmo:My father got some of that work and others. So it's it's interesting. Now, again, I think it's a pretty bold move to cancel effectively the line that you started your brand with.
Pagoda:An established line. Established Which did really well, yeah.
Gizmo:That kind of made them legitimate, right? Mean, you were there for the early days of this. We've talked about this before. Us that story. What was that like as Foundation was launching in 2015?
Pagoda:So I don't know about, so for us, we used go to Nat Sherman a lot. I used to hang out there lot. And I remember meeting Nick Melillo, who'd come down for one of these events, and you know, how they would host their cigars and you know, share a few cigars and talk a little bit about them. Yeah, it was, I remember being a Nat Sherman, being introduced to the cigar there, and Anna immediately fell in love with El Gagwenta at that point in time. And that became like a go to cigar for me for quite some time.
Pagoda:But a lot of what I remember about him was him being in Connecticut and just doing a lot of stuff in Connecticut. And that's all really like what I can really remember. But having said that, you know, I think a couple of years later when he brought in the Tabernacle, oh man, you know, I became a huge Nick Melillo fan for at least a period of time. They were both excellent cigars, very, very different in terms of the flavor profile. But he'd done an excellent job in both.
Pagoda:In fact, a lot of the people at Nat Sherman were smoking those for quite some time, yeah.
Gizmo:So there are five Vitolas in the Wiseman Corojo line, including this Toro 52 by six. There's a Corona 48 by five, the Robusto 50 by five and a half, the double Corona 54 by seven, and the recently released Lancero 40 by seven. So here's my question for you guys. I'm honestly surprised in some of the other cigars that we've had from him how light the affair is right now. Mhmm.
Gizmo:Do you think that coming in a smaller Vitola, it would have a little bit more of the oomph, I think, that we expect from Mello Cigars Foundation?
Senator:I'll just say this. I don't know, but what really drew me into this cigar is that it is so different from what we've had out of foundation. And I think all of us have struggled to find cigars that are lighter yet still flavorful and interesting enough that, like, you really enjoy and kinda savor the experience. And for me, I found the milder yet flavorful profile of this to be really interesting and unique in that there's like a void in my kind of rotation for a lot of options in this category. So I'm glad it's this way.
Senator:Like I have a zillion options as far as like full flavor, medium full. I don't have that many like this, so I'm
Rooster:glad It's really the Cabo Iguan.
Chef Ricky:I was just going to say Yeah.
Rooster:Which kind of fits that profile of Nicaraguan tobaccos, yet it's a milder cigar. You expect it to be fuller because of the Nicaraguan tobaccos, and it's not. It's a perfect daytime morning smoke.
Bam Bam:For all that smoke early in the day, would you keep this to your breakfast or lunch cigar? Definitely. I'm
Senator:right now getting cereal notes.
Bam Bam:Yeah, it's a little bready, Yeah. It's quite nice.
Rooster:It's like a cookie flavor coming on,
Gizmo:you know? I think the thing that the Cabo Iguan had that we kind of highlighted quite a bit is we were almost saying it kind of had a Cuban esque type feel to it. So does this, I think. Yes. I think this has a different type of Cuban esque.
Senator:Yes. I'm not I'm not
Bam Bam:there yet on the Cuban esque experience. I do like this a lot, however. To me, this is it's performing like a very, very mild Nicaraguan because in the background, I am getting a touch of earthiness, a touch of
Senator:just a very touch of minerality.
Bam Bam:I don't usually get that.
Gizmo:Can I can
Chef Ricky:I say something else? Notes.
Senator:Yes. But it'll pop faint.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. It's like very nicely distributed.
Gizmo:Yeah. I want you to look at the cigar. Pretend you've taken the band off. If I handed you that cigar, Ben, and said it was a
Bam Bam:D two.
Chef Ricky:D four.
Gizmo:Was it was a cigar that we were handed at La Corona. Some sort of roll. We don't know what it is.
Senator:I know exactly.
Gizmo:I don't think you would dispute that this could potentially I have come out
Pagoda:agree.
Gizmo:Honestly, it has. There are some different things, but not different enough that you'd go, this isn't Cuba.
Senator:And like, I would guess like Oyo.
Gizmo:Yeah. Or like one of those regionals, like a... Like the, you know, Purwara Nyaga region that we smoked.
Bam Bam:That earthiness, minerality, and little pepper throws me off, though. It's... I'm off that scent. To me,
Senator:it's super faint. I'm not getting it. It's very faint. Very sweet for me.
Gizmo:Even the burn line, it kind of has that vibe to it. Like, it kind of reminds me of those... I don't want to call them, unbanded because they're production cigars just not with the bands on them, but given to us at La Corona. This could very well be one of those. It even looks like it.
Gizmo:Look at the shade of the wrapper.
Bam Bam:Yeah. The look is there.
Gizmo:This looks like a Cuban wrapper to me.
Bam Bam:The look is definitely there.
Pagoda:Corojo seeds were purely Cuban, weren't they?
Gizmo:I don't know about now. I think originally.
Bam Bam:Well, it's performing beautifully. Everyone has got a great looking ash. Yeah. Every single one of us.
Gizmo:And honestly, I've not had these for terribly long. I've probably had these like Mhmm.
Senator:Three weeks? Two weeks? I just remember smoking this. I candidly am not a big foundation fan, and that nothing has ever cracked my regular rotation. I do like the Tabernacle.
Senator:I think that's a great cigar. And so I wasn't particularly excited to like this, and I was just sitting there, like, almost wanting to root against it and was just shocked by how enjoyable it was. And Now to do this under the microscope in a way that I wasn't when I first smoked this and with the full group, it's hard to not like this cigar.
Bam Bam:It's not super sweet for me.
Rooster:But there is a sweet note that you get.
Bam Bam:It's faint for me. The most pronounced experience I'm getting is those shots of white pepper, which I really enjoy, that little bit of minerality, which I do like sparingly, and there is a kind of a wave of sweetness that's there too.
Senator:Are you getting the creaminess? Yes, me it's very pronounced.
Bam Bam:That's the thing. With all those things being said, and it's also very creamy, it's hard not to like this.
Rooster:This cigar goes perfect with a cup of coffee.
Gizmo:Oh, I would imagine it does.
Bam Bam:And the stack of pancakes.
Rooster:Or try. Even the cigar has almost like a coffee with cream kind of flavor coming through.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Not that sweet for me, but it's it's it's moving there.
Chef Ricky:It's so interesting because Ben, I I am getting some of that earthy kind of interlace that's in there.
Bam Bam:That's all it is.
Chef Ricky:It's like creamy mushroom, if you will. Oh, dude.
Senator:Mushroom coffee.
Chef Ricky:Yeah, there you go. Mushroom coffee. There's
Bam Bam:that mustiness that's there, which I do love as well. Very good cigar. Unique. Interesting.
Gizmo:Very good. I will say, for the combustion coming out of it, for the flavors we're describing, the smoke is not incredibly viscous. No. It's not a thick, thick smoke.
Chef Ricky:And I think that combined with the airflow, it's, you know, the draw, the openness of the draw is a little
Gizmo:Short finish. Yeah. Do think though
Bam Bam:A 100% agree.
Gizmo:I do think though, I think if you hit this too hard, if you're going at it too hard, it's gonna heat up on you.
Bam Bam:I'm sure
Senator:that's true. The only thing I disagree with, I wouldn't describe it as a short finish. To me, it's a medium finish.
Gizmo:Yeah, it's not
Senator:disappearing I still have the flavor lingering on my palate after every draw.
Bam Bam:Not getting that yet.
Pagoda:Yeah, it's definitely not dry. You know how some cigar will really dry, it's not.
Rooster:I agree, I think it's that creaminess that's making it not dry.
Chef Ricky:For me, the finish that lingers is earth. It's not so much the creaminess that lingers for me. But I really enjoyed the cigar and the burn line on this thing is phenomenal.
Rooster:Think the spice also
Senator:raises So a little
Bam Bam:that's what's lingering most for me, that touch of spice.
Gizmo:So I do want to tell the listener, you run out and buy the cigar after listening to this review, I conditioned these a little bit differently than I have in the past because I did want to get to them sooner. I wasn't going to let these sit for two or three months. So I kind of dry boxed these almost for like two weeks. Wow. Because when they, you know, they come in from a retailer with the 69 Boveda in it.
Gizmo:You know? So I wanted to make sure that we were set up for success. I didn't even know we were doing it tonight. Figured we'd do it in the next couple weeks.
Senator:I'll I'll just say they don't have to do that. And the reason I say that is because when we got these
Bam Bam:You spoke them at the show.
Senator:I let... No. No. I spoke mine at home. Oh.
Senator:I let them sit in my tower for a week or two. Yeah. And it was just as enjoyable as this.
Bam Bam:I love the one ahead of the show. Not a problem. Did you get a box or singles?
Gizmo:I ordered seven singles, I believe, from small
Bam Bam:batch. Alright. Cool.
Gizmo:It's very good, though.
Pagoda:Yeah. It's a very easy smell. My only thing is it's very mild. Mhmm. You know?
Pagoda:So let's see how it develops.
Bam Bam:There is interest, though. It kinda keeps you there.
Rooster:To me it's like mild to medium though. Not like very mild. Like the Cabo Iguana is on the milder side of similar flavors, but this is like a mild to medium.
Senator:I agree.
Rooster:That's more body.
Chef Ricky:Just edging medium.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Would you begin a long evening sit with this thing?
Senator:I mean, we have to see how it progresses, but I think potentially, yeah.
Pagoda:Yeah.
Gizmo:I don't think right now, the way it's working for me, I don't think this can sit anywhere else in a sit aside from The beginning. Yep.
Bam Bam:You know? Or the morning or afternoon.
Gizmo:Yeah, the the lead off or or the second. Yeah. I don't think you're going any later than that.
Rooster:Yeah. So that makes it pretty versatile. You can smoke it in the morning, afternoon, or the first cigar off the evening.
Senator:And it fits a slot. Like I was saying that we just don't have that many options in. Our mid session evening and late session, there's so many. We just don't have that many of these milder but still satisfying cigars as options.
Bam Bam:For $10. Yeah. Yeah. Not bad.
Gizmo:I can't believe this performance, this flavor, how much tobacco is here
Rooster:in this size. This is a great cigar for the truck. Great truck cigar. The ash really holds on. It's not flaky.
Bam Bam:Are you smoking in that spaceship that you have? Are you?
Rooster:Not yet.
Bam Bam:No. It would be disgraceful if you did.
Gizmo:Rooster has a nice new car.
Pagoda:It's a new week. It's a new car. What the hell?
Rooster:I actually had a flat tire on the other car.
Pagoda:Oh, really? They gave you this?
Rooster:There was a nail. I'm like, you know, usually I would just take you to the place and get it plugged. So I called up the dealership, and they're like, no. We'll pick you up. We'll drop off a loaner, pick up the car.
Rooster:Flemington BMW.
Pagoda:Wow.
Rooster:Right? Which is about an hour and a fifteen minutes.
Gizmo:Far them up in a helicopter.
Bam Bam:All for a flat tire.
Gizmo:For a
Rooster:flat Just flat tire. It wasn't totally flat. It had some air in it, but there was obviously a nail. So today, they called me up. I'm like, oh, they're probably just gonna plug it.
Rooster:They put in a brand new tire. Wow.
Bam Bam:Did they bring you a cigar?
Senator:Well, don't they have run flats?
Rooster:No. These don't have run flats.
Senator:Really? Yeah. All BMWs used to be run flat.
Gizmo:No. Don't know if the big heavy ones do.
Rooster:Yeah. These are
Senator:not big cars.
Rooster:Yeah. This is like a midsize. It's the I x.
Gizmo:Oh, I thought was... I thought you had, like, the big one.
Rooster:Well, I do have a big one, but I don't have it on me today.
Pagoda:Pause. Oh, yeah. Pause.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. Let's go to some news.
Bam Bam:Giz, you like that.
Pagoda:He just got uncomfortable.
Rooster:Do you like
Gizmo:that? I need, like, one of those dividers that come up, you know, in a limo. You have one right here.
Bam Bam:Press a button.
Rooster:You like that?
Gizmo:Jesus. It's disgusting. Alright. Let's start with this one. I thought this was interesting.
Gizmo:Altidas USA has announced some price changes. This is on half wheel. Shout out to those guys. Thought this was interesting because I haven't seen this come up yet. So they announced that they're going to be refunding tariff charges collected from retailers who purchased their product through 02/23/2026.
Gizmo:They're going to return some of the tariffs. And they're also going to reduce their current import surcharge. They're going to have it from 7% down to three and a half percent beginning October first of this year. Wow. Now, what's interesting about this, to counter that I guess, they've announced that they're gonna be raising their prices across
Pagoda:the entire portfolio. How convenient.
Gizmo:So I thought that that was interesting. It came out in one press release. But I haven't seen any other tobacco
Bam Bam:If I did that to my customers, they'd slam the door in my face. That's just... How do you get away
Gizmo:with that?
Rooster:Yeah. But they could do that. They could raise their prices and not return any tariffs. That's what most companies do.
Bam Bam:Correct. I get it.
Pagoda:Yeah, because the retailers have increased the prices for the consumers. They're not returning anything to consumers.
Gizmo:Yeah, that's true. You know who is, though, Rooster? Costco.
Rooster:Returning tariffs?
Pagoda:Yeah. To the consumers? Yep.
Bam Bam:Oh, you're a shareholder.
Gizmo:To shareholders, I think. I think they're gonna be returning it to shareholders. Yeah.
Pagoda:Really? I saw that. The shareholders.
Senator:That is that. The shareholders are not the ones buying all the stuff in the stores. I want my refund.
Gizmo:You just joined. You... I think you might have joined
Senator:after this was all done. I'm deep down the Costco rabbit hole.
Rooster:I should get like a $50,000 commission check from them.
Pagoda:Actually, Rooster, why don't you, you know, get your truck in and take all these Costco guys for a trip every Saturday so that they could go shopping? I think
Rooster:half of us in this room are
Gizmo:members already. I've been a member for a long time.
Rooster:Yeah. You're a founding member.
Pagoda:There you are, pretty guy. I remember the liquor.
Rooster:And the bouchard chocolate.
Pagoda:Oh, yeah.
Senator:I'm still finding wrappers in my garage.
Gizmo:You know what? Everybody enjoyed those. I don't wanna hear it.
Pagoda:Oh, I didn't say a
Bam Bam:I didn't say a damn word. I love them.
Rooster:I still do, Giz. Cheers. I I got a bag.
Gizmo:There's another one now. This one's from Tatawa. Hey, I'm going to share this one coming up on the Halloween holiday, and people love these cigars. So cigars. We're going to talk about this.
Gizmo:Tatawa, hey, the Jason Redux six is coming for the holiday. Here's the packaging on it.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Sounds fantastic.
Gizmo:The mask of Jason. People love these cigars, man. They love the monster series. They love what Pete Johnson does with these Halloween characters. I know that you're not into it.
Gizmo:I'm not so much either, Bam, but a lot of folks are. So this is the sixth member of the Tatawahi Redux Monster series. This cigar is a 52 by seven and a half. So think about it. We have a 52 by six, so another inch and a half on the cigar that we have in our hands.
Gizmo:It has a Connecticut broadleaf wrapper, Nicaraguan binders, and fillers. They say it's a blend that is loosely based on the Fausto Avion blend, which was one of Tatooaje's strongest cigars to date at the time of its release. This is according to Half Wheel. Cigars are made at the same factory that this Wiseman Corojo that we're smoking tonight is, the My Father Cigar Factory in Esteli. Production is limited to 5,000 boxes of 13 cigars, total run of 65,000 cigars.
Gizmo:Of those 5,000 boxes, 666, of course, the number of the beast bam Mhmm. Are sequentially numbered while 34 are marked with x x in place of the numbers and are usually saved for special occasions. Pricing is set at $13 per cigar, $169 per box. These first came out this series in 2013, part of the monster series celebrating Jason Voorhees on this one of the Friday the thirteenth movie franchise. Of course, that aligns with the price being 13.
Gizmo:You guys look thrilled.
Chef Ricky:That image would make an amazing graphic tee. I'm just saying. It would.
Gizmo:Bam, I could see you wearing that.
Chef Ricky:Yeah, Bob,
Pagoda:good. Nice
Gizmo:little long sleeve.
Bam Bam:Are we trying to keep the youth from pursuing cigars? Wouldn't that just attract kids?
Gizmo:I don't
Chef Ricky:know about Jason Voorhees being for the youth. That's more our time, Bam.
Senator:I agree.
Gizmo:And it's also my time.
Pagoda:Also my
Chef Ricky:My time.
Bam Bam:No, I was a kid. I remember that movie. I
Gizmo:was a kid once. He's more of a Hitchcock, the birds guy.
Pagoda:Oh, yeah. Because I'm 92 years old. A long, long time ago.
Chef Ricky:Alright, man. Oh, boy.
Gizmo:I thought this one was interesting too. I can't wait to get your thoughts on this. The cigar brand, El Septimo, and the founder, I get an email almost every day where it says that he's a billionaire. He likes to remind everybody he's a billionaire, this guy. He has announced a new ashtray that is going to keep your cigars cool while you put your cigars on it.
Gizmo:I guess the problem is he describes conventional cigar smoking can reach 600 degrees Celsius to 900 degrees Celsius at the lid end. These extreme temperatures drive paralysis. I guess that's the paralysis of fire or something and combustion reactions, creating and increasing additional chemicals such as carbon monoxide, aldehydes, volatile organic compounds, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, BAM, tobacco specific nitrocyamines And particulate matter. Whatever happened to oxygen oxidizes. Well, I was gonna get to that.
Bam Bam:Sounds like it's doing its job.
Gizmo:So he has decided to control this temperature with a patented cooling system in a new L Septimo cigar ashtray.
Bam Bam:Is it mechanical?
Gizmo:Or So I guess there's some sort of Gizmo, have
Pagoda:been talking to him? Is it your fan from the
Bam Bam:I know, right, from
Gizmo:the tower.
Pagoda:From the tower. Yeah.
Bam Bam:It's my patent, actually. Is that... Is there a battery in that thing?
Pagoda:Or or or is it grinder spraying? You just spray it a little bit after.
Gizmo:So he says this is not simply another cigar accessory. He believes it has the potential to be the most important innovation in the history of the cigar industry because it addresses something that the industry has largely left uncontrolled for centuries, extreme temperatures. We've spent generations perfecting tobacco. Now we are applying science and engineering to what happens to the tobacco after the cigar is lit. The patented technology is designed to actively remove accumulated heat from a lit cigar between puffs, reducing the amount of time the tobacco remains exposed to extreme temperatures.
Bam Bam:So essentially, it puts the cigar out every time that you gotta relax.
Gizmo:Well, I think it's keeping it cool in the middle of the cigar.
Senator:Sorry. I gotta give this guy credit. I've been waiting for years for something like this.
Gizmo:You
Senator:said absolutely no one. I was looking at
Pagoda:this thing. Like, are you joking?
Gizmo:I can't believe you had them on that.
Senator:Dumbest thing I've ever heard in the cigar space.
Rooster:It's like a car at the stop sign. It stops, and then it restarts.
Bam Bam:Your cigar every time.
Pagoda:It is.
Senator:This guy's lost all credibility after this. I'm sorry.
Bam Bam:Well, he's a billionaire, so...
Rooster:He came out with the cigar,
Senator:but... Allegedly.
Chef Ricky:Gizmo, how is it that it keeps it cool? Is it through airflow?
Gizmo:Yeah. I guess there's airflow that... But wouldn't that make it hotter?
Chef Ricky:Wouldn't that create airflow that then...
Gizmo:You have to talk to him. I I don't know about anything about oxygen.
Bam Bam:Well, it's like blowing air on a fire. No. It's not gonna do that, but I don't know.
Pagoda:Yes, profesio.
Bam Bam:Is is there a mechanic... Is there a fan or something? How's it
Gizmo:It's gotta be. I don't know if it's battery.
Senator:It's not solving a problem. If the cigar is in any way overheating, you slow down smoking it. You put it down, and you come back to it with some time.
Chef Ricky:Then what the fuck happens when the ashtray is full of
Bam Bam:ash? Chlorofluorocarbon. Gotta control that shit, man.
Gizmo:What I love though is the clearly AI graphic that has accompanied this Wow. Double patent announcement. Okay. So I thought you guys would like that. I'm gonna get those for Christmas for us.
Gizmo:How much are these? No announcement yet on the price, Brewster, but I'll keep you updated.
Bam Bam:$280 an ashtray.
Rooster:At least.
Chef Ricky:No. That's cheap for that. Never know. 2,800 an ashtray.
Gizmo:Alright. I got another one for you. We're gonna get to our pairing. This one's coming out of Hong Kong. This is from the government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.
Gizmo:Two incoming female passengers were each sentenced to six months imprisonment and fined $2,000 each for importing duty not paid cigars and failing to declare them to customs officers. Apparently, they walked through the Hong Kong International Airport on September eighteenth of this year with 55 kilograms of duty not paid cigars. Look at all of these boxes of Cohibas Wow. That they seized from these two women rolling through the airport. Unbelievable.
Gizmo:What I find interesting is that they sent them to prison for six months and only fined them $2.
Pagoda:But why prison? You would think
Gizmo:it's be the other way around.
Pagoda:Oh, because they're smuggling.
Gizmo:It's the... I think it's... They're very serious about their duties.
Senator:But they're not smuggling. It's a legal product. It's just that there wasn't a duty paid. This is the dumbest thing of all time.
Bam Bam:The duty and be beyond that.
Senator:Why are you putting someone in prison for this? This I It's a legal product.
Gizmo:Correct. This I find fascinating, and I think this might be the answer to this. Apparently, Hong Kong is listing the estimated market value of these cigars in this hall at $3,900,000 US. Come on. And a duty potential of about $230,000 from their personal baggage.
Gizmo:So that's a lot
Pagoda:of money. Let's charge $2,000. Yeah. Take a few bucks and let them sell.
Gizmo:That's what they do at $300.
Rooster:How many boxes are there?
Gizmo:It's a lot. There's a lot of stuff here. Probably a 100 boxes maybe. Anyway
Bam Bam:I see the calculus equations over.
Gizmo:I'm just reading the press release from the Hong Kong people.
Pagoda:I'll tell you what's going wrong, man, but the society.
Gizmo:So more crackdowns on cigars. Cigar. And boys, we have come to the point where it's time to... Consume alcohol.
Pagoda:Consume alcohol. Also, what alcohol would be night consuming?
Gizmo:Tonight we have the Glengoyne, twelve years aged Highland single malt scotch whiskey. Interesting story here. Cheers, boys.
Pagoda:Cheers. Cheers. Cheers, folks.
Gizmo:Good to see you all. Not bad.
Bam Bam:That's nice.
Gizmo:I like it. Mhmm. You're gonna hate this gut... Initial gut reaction, I think, but it kinda has... It it kinda sits in the Macallan family for me a little bit.
Senator:That is outrageous. I knew you were gonna say that. Look at the color of the spirit.
Gizmo:I'm just saying flavor profile.
Bam Bam:Can I make another take? I have a completely different take on that. This tastes like a very traditional scotch. It's not like a Glenlivet to me, not a Macallan.
Senator:I was gonna go Glen Merrangie.
Bam Bam:Glen Merrangie.
Senator:Okay. This reminds me of Glen Merrangie 10.
Pagoda:I don't know. Very light.
Senator:Yeah, it's light. Macallan is the opposite of light.
Gizmo:Don't I know it's scale in how this think there's just a sweetness there. There's something about the Macallan flavor profile that first when I sifted it, that would have triggered in my brain.
Senator:And for me, the sweetness is very like honey forward, which is like a Glen Meringue 10.
Bam Bam:Glen Meringue, yeah.
Rooster:Totally agree.
Chef Ricky:I thought it was hilarious. Rooster picks up his coffee at the same moment we pick up
Rooster:our glasses from Peril. That's what I do for Cheers.
Gizmo:We take this very seriously, Chef.
Bam Bam:I'll say that I prefer the finish on this than the experience on the palate. It's very very nice finish and that's where I'm getting most of that honey and the touch of vanilla and on the palate it's okay.
Pagoda:I'm not even getting that much in the nose. My nose is... Aroma is nice.
Chef Ricky:I actually think the finish is short. I wish the sweetness...
Pagoda:Really? Lingered a bit, right?
Chef Ricky:Lingered a bit. Here, I feel like it's getting washed out and it...
Bam Bam:Take bigger sip, chef.
Chef Ricky:It's 43%. I'm sorry, 43%. It's 43%. Yeah, it is. Okay.
Chef Ricky:It's 43% and it's feeling a little bit hotter for some reason as it's going down. I agree. But I feel like Glenmorangie is a little bit more concentrated in flavor, a little sweeter, much smoother, even slightly viscier, more viscous than this.
Bam Bam:A little orange peel happening.
Senator:The only thing I like on this is the mouthfeel, it's buttery.
Chef Ricky:Yeah? I feel like that's what I'm missing. Let me try that again.
Pagoda:Keep going.
Senator:What's funny is on the finish, you don't get the... The butteriness doesn't last, but when it's initially... When you take a sip, it's buttery in your mouth, and then it's just gone once
Gizmo:a year.
Bam Bam:I think it's a decently long finish, not short for me.
Senator:I wouldn't say long.
Gizmo:So the price on this bottle, boys, is $60.
Bam Bam:That's a good deal.
Gizmo:I think it's pretty good for a 12. Yeah. Not bad at all.
Chef Ricky:Ben, I know you mentioned orange. I feel like I'm getting some lemon here.
Gizmo:That is interesting, chef. Not me. That's interesting.
Senator:If it's there, it's on the finish. It's definitely not on the front of your palate.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. No, no, no.
Bam Bam:On the front, I'm getting the orange peel.
Gizmo:Yeah. So let me just tell you their official tasting notes that I pulled. Coconut oil, honey
Chef Ricky:Don't get that.
Gizmo:Lemon zest, and dried oak on the nose.
Bam Bam:I'm... There are you.
Gizmo:On the palate, toffee apple, cinnamon, ginger, orange, and shortbread. Orange. And a finish of light sherry and soft oak.
Bam Bam:The finish sherry, I don't know. I I think it's a decently long finish. I'm still tasting it. Again, that's the favorite part of my experience with this thing.
Gizmo:So like chef said, this is 43%, 86 ABV. Guess what distillery it's made at, Bam? Newark? New Jersey?
Bam Bam:McLeod.
Gizmo:McLeod. Smooth. Ian McLeod distillers?
Bam Bam:Oh, really?
Gizmo:The big thing about... I'm dead serious. The big the big thing about Glengoyne, their big claim to fame is there's absolutely no peat involved in their process. They dry it's... They're...
Gizmo:They dry their malt with air rather than peat smoke. They make a point of saying it's barley is only air dried. So even though we have a highland scotch, there's no smoky or peaty character at all. So instead of that smoke iodine char thing you would expect from a Highland peaty scotch, obviously, we're getting a much different flavor profile.
Bam Bam:I like the palate adjustment. It's getting better.
Pagoda:It's getting better.
Bam Bam:Like with everything else. The heat dissipates.
Senator:I'm just encouraged because I've had the 18 of this and I really disliked it. Some of you may remember in our former lounge, the earlier days, when we went up to Woodstock during the pandemic.
Gizmo:I didn't go, but I remember that story.
Bam Bam:Who brought that bottle?
Senator:Oh, I know who. I'm going to tell this. We did a fun thing where all of us that were going up, the task was to bring a bottle of scotch that was between maybe fifteen and eighteen years, and everybody brought like Balvenie, Macallan, know, greats of Oban, great bottles
Bam Bam:of Taloskur, I think.
Senator:It was probably then 12 to 18. And then, of course, someone like, we'll call him Lizard Dave broke the rule and like brought the Balvenie Portwood, which is 21. It was above 18. It was amazing bottle. And then someone who is actually like...
Senator:This was not... You know, Glengoyne is definitely on the more budget friendly side, and nothing wrong with that. But the person who brought it, let's just say, is, like, very well off, but just chooses to be like Chicken legs? No. No.
Senator:Not him. Right. We'll call him the long lost lizard. Right. Oh.
Senator:Who just disappeared off the face of
Bam Bam:the earth. Correct. Evaporated. Exactly.
Senator:So he brings his Glengoyne 18, and I'm sitting there like, of all the bottles, this is what you picked up, and it was really unenjoyable. This 12 is honestly better than that 18 was. Really? Yeah. The 18 is like fuller.
Senator:It's not as like light as this is, but in its competitive set of eighteen year single malts, it is by far at the bottom. Like, it's it's not a good bottle. This is a 12. It's like a serviceable 12. Mhmm.
Bam Bam:It's decent. Very drinkable.
Gizmo:So before I continue on here with the Glengoyne story and some of the details there, what do you guys think about how it pairs with the cigar we have in our hand?
Senator:The thing I will say that I like is I was a little worried, like, how this is on the mild medium side. There are a lot of scotches that are fuller bodied. The honey and, like, lighter nature of this, I think, lends itself well to a cigar like this. Now I'm not in love with the Scotch, so I'm not gonna say it's a perfect pairing. It's far from it.
Senator:But stylistically
Bam Bam:It works. It's similar. It's working. Touch of orange. It's nice.
Senator:Or structurally, I should say it's similar.
Chef Ricky:Yeah, I find it bringing out some citrus notes from the cigar. It's kind of interesting. Yeah. And I agree. It's not like my favorite scotch that I've had.
Chef Ricky:I was really excited about this just because it was non peated.
Bam Bam:So I
Chef Ricky:was like, all right, this is going to be... But let's see how my palate adjusts and how it continues to play with the cigar.
Bam Bam:It's a bit on a thin side as
Pagoda:well. Yeah.
Gizmo:So Glengoyne markets itself as the slowest distillation in Scotland. The company says that for every minute that other whiskeys are spent being distilled, Glengoyne's spirit spends roughly three. The objective is greater contact between the spirit vapor and copper, contributing to a cleaner, softer, fruitier character of the new make. They've turned that into their slogan, and you can see that on the front of their box, unhurried since 1833.
Bam Bam:By three minutes.
Gizmo:By three minutes.
Chef Ricky:I could see the distiller now. I wish this would get going. Sorry.
Gizmo:So they have plastered that everywhere.
Pagoda:I thought it would be more like something fruity. Now considering
Bam Bam:You're not getting you're not getting any orange? No. I am not. No citrus. Yeah.
Senator:The only thing, the more you drink it, the more the fruit notes come out. Yeah. Yeah. Like, when they said apple, I thought that was insane, but after several sips, I now
Chef Ricky:get it. Yeah. The the astringency dissipates, and you start getting more.
Bam Bam:And it's a clean drink,
Chef Ricky:Yeah.
Bam Bam:That's pretty accurate.
Chef Ricky:To your point about... I think it was you, Ben, that mentioned it's being similar to Glenlivet. I feel like that that also started, like, the way this started.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It's definitely more Glenlivet to me than Glen Merrangie, but the orange lends itself to that other spirit.
Gizmo:So apparently, in 2009, this is a little bit of a controversy, distillery manager Robbie Hughes specifically said that they incorporated first fill bourbon barrels, which are unusual apparently for the Glengoyne core range. The historically published makeup of the 12 has been twenty percent first fill sherry, twenty percent first fill bourbon, and 60% of casks that are refilled. That formulation has been reported repeatedly over the years, although Glengoyne's current website, as I look today, doesn't publish anything about those percentages. So I don't know if that remains the same or if it's changed, but that has been a situation in the past.
Bam Bam:Very secretive. Like Daffodil.
Gizmo:So Glengoyne sits almost exactly in the traditional Highland Lowland dividing line. The distilleries itself is on the Highland side. So like I said earlier, it's officially a Highland single malt. Historically, however, its maturation warehouses are across the road on what is considered the Lowland side. So I guess you can distill a Highland whiskey and walk across the road into the Lowlands and mature it.
Gizmo:The site where they distill has gone back to 1820 when they were doing illicit production, illegal production associated with a guy named George Connell. He obtained a legal license thirteen years later in 1833, which is what they say unhurried since when the operation was associated with a firm called Burnfoot.
Bam Bam:So after he got licensed, he just added two minutes to his process, so now that he can spend more time. I guess. Rather than being on the run.
Gizmo:I guess. Got it. Okay. The Glengoyne name came later. The The distillery's own historical material says the name Glengoyne was adopted in nineteen o seven, and then it was purchased in 2003 by MacLeod.
Pagoda:MacLeod.
Gizmo:Ian MacLeod Distillers. And they are a significant independent scotch company who we have talked about before. So that's the story, boys, of our $60, 12 years age Glengoyne single malt scotch on the pod tonight.
Bam Bam:I am flying through this cigar.
Gizmo:And boys, we've come to the end of the first third on the foundation of the Wise Man Corojo in Toro paired with that Glengoyne. What's everybody thinking about the cigar at this point?
Rooster:The cigar is so well constructed that there is not a single flake on Pagoda's shirt today. Yeah.
Gizmo:So we'll go back to our ash meter. That's my gut. He is wearing the blue pants. There's just a lot
Senator:of tobacco on his beds from him cutting the cigar.
Gizmo:But no ash.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Rooster:No ash.
Bam Bam:We'll take it.
Rooster:It's progress.
Pagoda:I'll take it as... It's a win.
Bam Bam:It's progress.
Gizmo:It's still early, though. It is still early. We'll check-in later Alright. With our ash meter. Alright, boys.
Gizmo:Let's get to some housekeeping now. Couple things I wanna share with you. Number one, I mentioned it last week. We've gotten some feedback on it, but my appearance, my interview on the Cigar Soldier Podcast is out. Ended up being two and a half hours long.
Gizmo:I didn't even remember that we recorded that long. It was a fun conversation, and I really appreciate Mitch at the Cigar Soldier. He's been an OG listener of ours and supporter for many, many years. And I just wanted to say, Pagoda and the rest of you, what'd you think of the interview? Fantastic.
Pagoda:It was excellent. Specifically, Pagoda. So I hear.
Gizmo:So Pagoda today on the text chain, when I just put it up, said, hey, you know, if you're interested, it's out. And Pagoda said, how long is it? And I said, two and a half hour. He goes, fuck that. I'm not listening.
Gizmo:I mean, verbatim. That's what
Pagoda:he said. It felt like homework.
Gizmo:So I know Chef did listen to it,
Chef Ricky:I did actually listen to it while I was getting some things done throughout the day. And I thought it was great, man. I think the way you spoke about the pod and just some things that go into building a successful podcast and it was just very natural. Everything from, you know, sort of how, you know, you go about the sponsorships and things like this and, you know, not too much detail, but enough detail where was a little bit of like inside baseball and it allow people to get some behind the scenes information. And, you know, it was it was also great to just kind of hear, you know, him starting a podcast and what he's a few months in at this point.
Gizmo:Yeah, he's about six months in. He releases biweekly every So other he's put out, I think this is episode 16, so thirty two weeks. He's just over six
Bam Bam:months. Sure.
Pagoda:By the way, chef, you get an A for class participation. You
Rooster:get a D.
Pagoda:I've always been a D, Stephen.
Chef Ricky:Well, you know, I think what you could hear in his voice at times, he's just amazed how long we've been doing it, how consistent it's been. You know, you could tell he's experiencing firsthand the sacrifice that it takes to doing it the way he's doing it. So he's almost like, how the hell did you guys do it? You know, six, seven, eight people every week, once a week without failure. It was just kind of cool to hear.
Rooster:Well, he also records it just by himself. Yes. And most of the podcasts out there are one, two, three at the most. And what's unique about our podcast is that we were friends before we started recording, and that has just grown. A lot of the other podcasts seem like they're kind of put together.
Chef Ricky:Except for me, I'm still not friends with you guys.
Pagoda:You're to keep participating. You'll be there.
Gizmo:You're still on a pip. Does
Bam Bam:he have his own space? Does he set up like you do?
Gizmo:I think he has an outdoor setup that's kind of This is So he records outdoors. He has like a tent or something that
Bam Bam:he Yeah. Records
Rooster:sets up every week. It sounded pretty good.
Chef Ricky:Did. It
Gizmo:sounded great. So he... Yeah. We worked on... Early early on, I helped him kinda get set up with the plug ins and the gear and all that stuff and, you know.
Senator:Giz edits his podcast too? No.
Chef Ricky:Well, I actually asked Giz that. Said, did not. It sounded good. Did you edit that podcast?
Gizmo:I did not. I didn't. Actually, he texted me. He's like, how the hell do you do this for six, seven, eight mics? Like, just two mics.
Gizmo:He's like, this tripled my normal workload.
Bam Bam:Does he do his own editing? Yeah. Really?
Chef Ricky:Yeah. That's cool. Kudos to him, man, because I could not tell it was outdoors. But there was a little exchange there that I thought was funny where you were like... Gizmo was like, do you hear that?
Chef Ricky:Do you hear that? It's that fucking cricket,
Pagoda:right? Dude, dude, I'm back
Chef Ricky:because he's a listener. He's like, Oh, this is a cricket you speak about on the podcast.
Bam Bam:Yeah, him and crickets.
Chef Ricky:So so now he has this whole he has a fucking frog that lives near to near his studio that he records. So these guys are going back and forth about, you know, the cricket frogs that's in the zoo out there.
Bam Bam:Was
Gizmo:I was again on a tear over the last two weeks just killing crickets.
Pagoda:In the house?
Gizmo:No. No. No. Not in the house. Okay.
Gizmo:They they... They're not in the garage either. They're around the garage, but I can hear them as I'm trying to sit there and peacefully take in
Bam Bam:It's outdoors. So we
Gizmo:The garage isn't outdoors. I'm indoors.
Bam Bam:But they're allowed to be outside.
Gizmo:I know, but I want... I don't want them to
Senator:be They kinda live there.
Gizmo:They're creatures. I wanna kill them. All of them. Okay. If I could eradicate them from the earth, they serve no purpose.
Pagoda:They do serve Although we have a lizard who has perfected the art of cricket killing. Correct. It is senator. Yeah.
Bam Bam:How's that work?
Pagoda:Oh, wow.
Senator:So he's been on my patio. So the funny thing is
Rooster:Do you
Gizmo:just take your shoe and
Senator:Correct. Wow.
Gizmo:I've never seen it, but I know it.
Senator:The funny thing is But my accuracy is on point.
Bam Bam:Now do you power wash after
Pagoda:you're done?
Senator:Oh, you don't even need to. No. No. My my... Trust me.
Senator:I've got it down to the sides. But the the funny thing is they're really never... I mean, you've been on my patio many times. There's never crickets there. You never even hear them.
Senator:So this one night, Pagoda was there. I think a rooster, Lizard Henrito, and I hear this cricket. It was just odd. Not that like... I'll hear them way in the distance, you know, somewhere else, but I've never really heard one on my patio, and it was clear.
Senator:It was very close. So I told the story about Gizmo with the crickets. And mad, dude. So I'm like, just for sport, like, it's just... I I hate bugs that are just obnoxious and don't So serve I'm like, I'm gonna find this thing, I'm gonna kill it.
Senator:And so sure enough, I'm kinda staking it out, figuring out where the sound's coming from. I find it. And the first one, I think it was two strikes dead. Then fast forward like another hour later, another cricket I hear, that one, like we spot, he was like under something, boom. So I've I've got it down.
Senator:I mean, haven't been any since. It was two and that was it, but it's just fun to get rid of them.
Gizmo:My problem is they
Bam Bam:It's fun hide smashing them.
Gizmo:They hide from me. So like, I've got rocks outside. I got the doors. I got... So I I use
Senator:Oh, this one was under an Ottoman.
Gizmo:Oh, well, no. I'm not that fortunate. Like, an Ottoman, you can move. Right? Like, they hide under doors.
Gizmo:I just take the the the wasp killer, the hornet killer. I have the one that shoots like a foam. I I buy them by the case now.
Senator:I promise that shit gets everywhere.
Gizmo:I don't care I unload, dude. Don't Pause.
Pagoda:There's an EPA issue over there. Gotta be dealt with. It's more than an EPA issue.
Gizmo:I I can't... I cannot stand the sounds of crickets when I'm smoking my cigars, so I'm on the warpath. But anyway, so it got into the recording
Chef Ricky:You know what, Gizmo?
Rooster:And I edited it out.
Chef Ricky:I think whenever there's that new brood of cicadas that happens, it's gonna happen around your hole.
Gizmo:That was a bad day, man. It was a bad time when the cicadas came back. But anyway, it was a fun conversation with Mitch. So check it out. I also want to share too.
Gizmo:It's been a couple years, year and a half maybe, that I've really been kind of keeping up with my website and stuff, but I'm back to it. So check out lizardgizmo.com. It's not just a feed of stuff happening. It's kinda... I kinda curate and post stuff up I find interesting and comment on it.
Gizmo:So check it out. I'm gonna be doing a mailing list from there, including the Lizard stuff. So I'm gonna start sending mailing lists out about once a month. And every month, I'm gonna be giving stuff away. And all you have to do is be a subscriber.
Gizmo:You're gonna win stuff from our sponsors. You're gonna win cigars, ashtrays, all that stuff. So tune in and it's going to be my stuff, our stuff, a little bit of everything each And all you have to do is subscribe. So stay tuned for that. But check it out, lizardgizmo.com.
Gizmo:I'm also building to complement our ratings guide. I'm also building a new Lizard website. So I'm going to make it more functional, better looking on mobile, a better store, better merch. So I'm working on that now. Thank God for Mike with this editing thing.
Gizmo:Gotten some time back that I can divert to other things now. So check that out. It'll be coming out soon. So I'll post that up on Lizard Gizmo when it's out. But yeah, appreciate the support, and And appreciate you I can't wait to hear Pagoda's review of the interview.
Gizmo:Maybe next week?
Pagoda:Yeah. Listen, am I gonna get a gift for her if I read it?
Gizmo:How about I'll come to your house and I'll put your gobies in your tower?
Pagoda:Oh, yeah. Done. Please no quiz after, alright? That's all.
Gizmo:I gotta say I'm enjoying the cigar. Yeah. Really nice. It's honestly... I would say it's...
Gizmo:It almost to me right now is like where it was when we started or even a little lighter. Like, I don't feel
Pagoda:like light.
Gizmo:That's little like it's picking up for me, really. It's not like stepping up. Like, it's kind
Rooster:of right where it was. But it's pleasant.
Gizmo:It's nice. I'm not complaining, but I'm surprised. I'm enjoying it.
Senator:I don't disagree, but to say it's lighter than where we started, to me, that's not my experience.
Pagoda:Yeah, I'm not getting very strong flavors. I don't know, maybe it's just my palate today. But you know, I think...
Bam Bam:But it's meant to be a mild experience. I
Pagoda:think the spirit, I kind of now agree with you. It's like leaving, it's not leaving a flavor than a long lingering flavor, but it's leaving some kind of a sensation on the top of my palate. Don't know, it's not, for me, the pairing is not working that well. I don't know.
Gizmo:So I want to go to a voice memo. We're going start with a voice memo tonight. This is from Lizard Christophe, who's written us a bunch. He's from Belgium, if you remember. He went to Dortmund and went to the InterTabac twenty twenty six trade show.
Gizmo:So this is the international community version of, I guess, what we would look at PCA or the Habanos Festival. So I wanted to share that voice memo with you and get an update from Lizard Christophe on all things InterTabac.
Lizard Christoph:Hi Lizards, Lizard Christophe from Belgium checking in. It's been a while, I hope you're all doing well. I just got back from InterTabac twenty twenty six, and I wanted to share a few thoughts. For those of you who don't know, I think that's the biggest trade expo in the world for tobacco and related industries in Germany. I work in the broader tobacco world I've mentioned before, think, but not cigars, so I get to mix a bit of business with pleasure around there.
Lizard Christoph:On the floor which stood out to me, beside the usual names like Odiva, Arctur, Fuente, Plasenza and so on, was very strong Honduran presence, a growing number of Mexican, Brazilian and Costa Rican cigars, which is something we can all welcome I think. Indonesian cigars too and even Chinese ones seem to be coming up. I haven't tried any Chinese cigars yet but if you get the chance to try an Indonesian Furo, you should do so. I was pleasantly surprised, Very dark, full flavored tobacco but not heavy like I was expecting. And then there's people.
Lizard Christoph:Two things: first, everybody knows everybody. It's a small world, most people are in it for life. I hope I'll be too, one way or another. Then just cigar smokers are some of the friendliest people you'll ever meet. I made a few new business contacts over a cigar and it's just such a shame that there's less and less room for that in Europe, outside events like this.
Lizard Christoph:The people who actually make the cigars are lovely too, because in the end I'm just there as an aficionado and a consumer for them, not a distributor or a retailer, which is what they are looking for, and some still take the time to talk to you. A few stood out in particular to me, I got to talk to Maya Selva from Florence Selva, that's a real sleeper cigar by the way, if you haven't tried them you should give the Maduro a shot. Emily Suhakiam from Chateau d'Adam walked me through her new cigars. I think you should give the original line of conviction a go as well. The folks from JRE, so the Airoa family, they are wonderful.
Lizard Christoph:Their booth was always packed and yet they took some time to talk to me. And then over at Casa Agli, I went to compliment them on one of their cigars that I enjoyed, the Filet Casa Agli. And they were just super generous. And Henrik Kellner was there too. Yes, that's grandson of.
Lizard Christoph:And I had no idea how closely connected those were before. And then lastly representative from Ashton went into his personal stash to give me a La Roma de Cuba Noblesse when I just went over to ask if we should ever see it in Europe. Oh yeah and I got to thank the people from BCA in person for their advocacy. So many more cigars were smoked, great conversations were had, many more folks but we'd be here all day if I had to name all of them. I'll just leave it there with no question this time.
Lizard Christoph:Just a toast to every cigar smoker out there and to everyone who makes this hobby possible manufacturers, retailers, consumers, advocacy groups, podcasts like yourself. Here's to cigars and everything they make possible.
Gizmo:Great voice memo. Yeah. From Lizard Christoff. Like a field report. Correct.
Gizmo:From InterTabac. So obviously we didn't get to go this year. But the one thing I will note as I was reading on Half Wheel, Charlie was talking like Lizard Christoff about the, you know, lot of new entrants into the market from a variety of different countries. And Charlie was commenting how many Chinese manufacturers and how much Chinese tobacco was highlighted in the premium cigar space. So he said that he had Chinese cigars years prior and they were unsmokable.
Gizmo:I guess he had some now that were pretty decent. So seems like they're on the right path, but I would imagine that that is coming in real hot and probably going to come into The US. They're great at copying product. That is true. I don't know how you copy a product like this, but...
Chef Ricky:Seeing a China is not gonna feel good.
Bam Bam:I had an Indonesian cigar
Chef Ricky:at PCA. Oh, remember
Gizmo:this. I remember this.
Pagoda:Oh, yeah. Honestly.
Gizmo:Walking around with his aviators.
Bam Bam:It was like smoking the black leather that you're sitting on right now. It was like... It was tar.
Senator:It was horrible. I tried it after he did. Couldn't take more than a few puffs. It was disgusting.
Bam Bam:It was extremely, very, very strong.
Pagoda:I remember you hanging out by
Chef Ricky:the booth though.
Rooster:Indonesian puro. Indonesian puro. Wow.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Awful.
Pagoda:Well, the motto rappers do come from there, so... Interesting.
Gizmo:Alright. Here's another one now. This one's from our friend Lizard Peter, who wanted to comment on the Chenji and Hunters and Franco thing we talked about. So, obviously, Lizard Peter is from Nottingham. He wrote us about the save cigars thing with the plain packaging.
Gizmo:He's very involved in in that world over there. So he says, dear Gizmo, I was interested in the ongoing situation related to Chenji and the Hunters and Franco situation and what you guys discussed on the podcast that came out yesterday. I read the article in Fine News. Remember I was talking about that article that I found fascinating with the flowchart and everything. It kinda really detailed all of Chen Zi's interaction with the industry that we love so very much.
Gizmo:He says he did a bit of research beyond that. I'm particularly interested in how it impacts Hunters and Franco as the sole distributor to The UK. Also, because I feel like I've come to know and like one or two of their senior people from watching numerous YouTube interviews and presentations. People like Gemma Freeman, Sean Crowley, and Ana Lopez. I was interested to find out how the connection had arisen with Chen Gizmo or one or more of the myriad companies he was connected with.
Gizmo:My comments below are entirely based on the brief research via Google I did and are subject to any inaccuracies or incompleteness in the search results. It says, number one, Hunters and Franco is currently owned fifty fifty by a company controlled by the Freeman family, the old money, and by Altobana SL. It is because of now who owns Altobana itself that the problems arose for Hunters and Franco. But Altobana, the company, acquired the 50% holding in Hunters and Franco almost thirty years ago. There was some questioning on the pod as to why HF would have anything to do with Cigar or his company, but I believe they didn't.
Gizmo:They would have had, I suspect, no control at all over who owned or controlled Altobana. They were the unknowing casualties of what turned out to be a Trojan horse admitted into Hunters and Franco in 1997 or thereabouts when 50% of the shares in HF were transferred to Altobana. So I just want to pause there. What's interesting about this is the if you remember what we discussed last week, the the business registration in The UK was quite different than what was registered in Spain. So remember, that's where this discrepancy came up.
Gizmo:Anybody who was kind of looking around when H and F got in trouble a little bit a couple months ago or before the European folks did, there was no notice in the registration that Altobana or Cengiz involvement was there. That's... They figured this out in the Spanish records of this. So him coming up with this is surprising to me that Altobana has been involved that long. Number two, what has to be understood is back then, Altobana was essentially a joint venture between Cuba Tobacco and a company called Altodis, of course, jointly owned by the Spanish and French government tobacco monopolies.
Gizmo:It would therefore have seemed perfectly respectable and reliable as a partner, I suppose. I also imagine Hunters and Franco had little choice in the matter as the Cupid government would have dictated terms being in overall control of the supply of cigars and choosing who was authorized to be the sole distributor in any particular area. Also, Hunters and Franco has previously, since 1990, been in a joint venture with Cuba Tobacco and Tabaclera of Spain. So this was a continuation of that arrangement, but with the fundamental difference that H and F itself was now to be half owned by the new entity Altobana. So if this is true, Hunters and Franco was one of the first ones that had to acquiesce to a 50% ownership with the entity that's in charge of the cigars that come to them.
Gizmo:So we're hearing about this eighteen months ago, them forcing their way into distributorships. He's saying that according to his research, this happened to them thirty years ago. Continuing on, Imperial Tobacco, now Imperial Brands, comes into the picture in 2008 when it acquired Altadis, the owner of 50% of Altobana, in turn the owner of 50% of Hunters and Franco, he says if you're still following me. Incidentally, Altidus has seemed to own 50% of Habanos SA, then they sold that, of course. In 2020, Imperial Brands sells some of the assets of Altidus to Allied Cigar Corporation, which is Cenge's.
Gizmo:H and F may have known about the changes in ownership then over the years, but I am pretty sure it had no legal mechanism to resist them and presumably until the ultimate sale by Imperial Brands and Gizmo became involved that had no particular concerns. It does raise the question of what due diligence was carried out. We talked about due diligence by Imperial on its buyer and the source of the funds. I guess they probably didn't care because they just wanted to transact. The practical problem, as you have outlined before, Giz, is the regulatory sanctions that meant H and F and other distributors had issues with the banks.
Gizmo:The Fine News article indicates it took HF six months, this is true, to get a license running until 2031 to free up its relationship with the banks. It's not clear if there are any conditions attached which still hamper normal business transactions. I'm not sure about that. I do know that everybody is having difficulty paying Habanos. Whether or not they clear these issues with their banks, it is very hard right now to get money to Habanos for tobacco.
Gizmo:All this plus the problems getting any inventory from Cuba, he says. No wonder retailers here seem to be turning more and more to New World cigars. I have to stress again that Above is based solely on what I've unearthed from Google in a short space of time, so I cannot vouch for its accuracy. Best wishes to you and all the Lizards, Lizard Peter from Nottingham. Now Whoo.
Gizmo:Why do I go through all that? I was
Senator:gonna ask for an AI summary.
Pagoda:I can't pay attention in class.
Gizmo:The reason the reason why I go through all this is because, number one, I like to be accurate and I like to present as much as we can get. Right. But number two, we're one of the only places that's talking about this stuff. And I discussed this in the cigar soldier conversation, but I think that, you know, cigar media, there's a lot of glazing and a lot of ignorance to these things that are seemingly negative that are happening, but I think are incredibly important. And I want to detail one thing that I saw brought up about what happened at InterTabac.
Gizmo:So I'm going to tie this all together. And a lot of the conversation was New World manufacturers saying they're terrified of Cuban cigars leaving the shelves because in Europe, people walk into those cigar shops for Cuban cigars and are hopefully exposed to non Cubans and walk out with some non Cubans. But without Cuban cigars in those shops, there's not as much of a draw, especially from a tourist angle, to get people to walk in to purchase cigars and hopefully convert them to a non Cuban. So what I saw was that there was a lot of discourse into the back because there was no presence from Habanos or any of their people that they're nervous about Cuban cigars exiting any of these markets because it's going to impact all cigars, not just Cuban cigars. And I was curious, Senator, you're kind of in this world.
Gizmo:We're all business guys. What do you guys think of that take or that kind of thought of? I mean, Cuban cigars have dominated forever, right? So if they evaporate on top of all the regulation, plain packaging, closing shops, closing outdoor... Anything, no lounges being built.
Bam Bam:Are you saying that they can't... They have a difficult... It's difficult to pay Habanos.
Gizmo:Well, distributors are having difficulty transacting money just because of the sanctions. It's hard to do that.
Pagoda:So they
Bam Bam:can't get paid, and they're having a difficult time producing. How long can they possibly exist?
Gizmo:It's a great question, don't know
Bam Bam:That's a basic
Gizmo:But how many times, just in the last five years when we're doing this, and in the years before that, have everybody said that Cuba's not going to survive, Cuba's going fall, there's going to be a revolution, that everything's over? They continue to survive. We've said it. How does this continue to happen? So my bet, if I had to put money on the table, I think they're going to survive because they've done it so many times.
Gizmo:History has shown that they're pretty resilient in powering through whatever's going on. Yeah. It's not good right now. Yeah. But from a let's say you're a retailer in some of these markets, Cupid cigars aren't showing up.
Gizmo:UK even. If there's no cigars in the shop
Bam Bam:I'm sorry.
Gizmo:Are people gonna walk in and I'm selling pudrones. Looking foundations or pudrones?
Senator:Look. I I think a lot of that fear is overblown. And the reason I say that is, I'm sorry, the the retailer is the one who has the most to lose in that situation. Like, they have to move product or their operation completely collapses. Right?
Senator:Manufacturers can distribute to other places that remain open and know how to sell product. But if you're a retailer that does not do their job, your business is done. So the notion that if there are not Cuban cigars, people are not gonna walk in, the retailer's job is to promote what they do have Mhmm. And what they do have is New World cigars. So I think it's a little silly to get overly worried of, well, if there's no Cuban cigars, no one's gonna walk in the shop.
Senator:The retailer's not doing their job if they're not telling people, we have cigars. Here's what we've got. X, which is very Cuban esque in flavor profile. Y, which is like, you know, the the following. They have to tell that story.
Senator:So I wouldn't be overly concerned now. Is there some legitimacy to... Obviously, yes. When people think there's a lot of Cuban cigars in any shop, are they gonna walk in in Europe and other markets? Of course.
Senator:But people want to smoke cigars, and so if they can't get them, if you're a retailer reaching out to these... Your regular customers telling them, here's what we have, they're gonna go in. They're cure... Like, cigar smokers are curious people. Look at all that we try every week.
Senator:Look what our listeners send us, and they try. I just think it's silly to suggest that if Cubans aren't there, there's no way for new worlds to compete. I just don't see that being the case.
Rooster:I think I think initially, they're gonna get hit. But as the consumer gets more educated that there are no Cuban cigars in the market, they really don't have a choice. If you're a cigar smoker... And there's so many other excellent new world cigars that are out there.
Bam Bam:And they'll discover those.
Gizmo:They'll discover them. And keep
Senator:in mind, this hasn't happened. This isn't happening now. This isn't happening overnight. There haven't been Cuban cigars on shelves for... I mean, this problem's been happening for the last few years.
Bam Bam:Yes. Three years plus.
Gizmo:I mean, with COVID, let's start... It started to COVID.
Bam Bam:That's true. That's true.
Senator:So, like, the adjustment period is... We're well into that. You're a consumer in another market, you're already wondering what am I going to buy because I'm not readily going to access Cuban cigars anytime soon.
Gizmo:Even versus last year, a lot of these folks are receiving 20 to 30% at best of what they were receiving last year, which simply depends compared to what they were receiving a couple of years after COVID, certainly much less well before COVID.
Rooster:And don't forget the prices have tripled, if not quadrupled than before.
Senator:But that's what I'm saying. Again, I'm taking nothing away from the fact that it's getting worse. No question there. But consumers have already been having to think about for the last few years, prices are outrageous. What am I gonna do?
Senator:Supply is so limited. What am I gonna buy? Like, they've already been considering this. We've had listeners write us all over the world talking about they've only smoked Cuban cigars their whole life and are now trying new worlds and finding things they like because for years now that their their choices, their options have been more and more constricted to the point that now they're going to entirely different regions for cigars.
Pagoda:Yeah, but it's a short term pain, right, because, like, I remember walking into Panama and to that store, there was no Cuban cigar, I walked out, meaning we hung out there for a couple of minutes and we walked out. I think the American tourists who go and
Bam Bam:Hold on. Were there any cigars of any kind?
Pagoda:There were like just four, like five boxes.
Senator:But keep in mind, that store in Panama is not emblematic of Europe and other That's
Bam Bam:true, that's true.
Pagoda:Yeah. So I'm just saying that, like, Cuban food traffic there is
Rooster:tiny It's an LCDH.
Pagoda:It is. Yeah.
Senator:But in Panama, like, the foot traffic in a... In an LCDH in London, any major city is dramatically different than Correct.
Pagoda:No, sure. But the thing is the anchor product, right? Yeah. So they're losing out on all the American tourists at least.
Gizmo:Yeah, because if the American tourists are gonna go in there and buy a padrone, they can get one here for $15.
Pagoda:For $15.
Gizmo:Over there it's 60 or 70 Yeah,
Pagoda:that's exactly, I think in the short term they'll be paying till the time, I think the European consumers and the customers get used to the new worlds, you know, coming all the way from, you know, Central America. You know, my thought is, it's short term pain for long term gain eventually. Because I think once the flavor profile changes, once you start getting used to the new world cigars, I think they'll be back in business. But you know, the problem is how many survivors are there going to be?
Gizmo:That's exactly it, Pagoda. And I'll say one more thing. I mean, I hope for any person who smokes cigars, let's let's count out the cigar smokers, the lizards, Lizard Nation. Let's count our type of folks out. But I hope people who smoke cigars being forced into having to look elsewhere than Cuba for their cigars.
Gizmo:Hopefully they find and enjoy the journey like we have in a lot of us with even with Cuba cigars in our towers. We've found joy in moving away. Yeah. And we've found a lot of greatness in a lot of other options. So hopefully being an optimist, hopefully that becomes the case for a lot more folks.
Rooster:They find It's those underrated kind of a blessing in disguise. It was. The Cuban cigar market has gone up through the roof, the prices and inaccessibility of them. So it's kind of made us go the other route and procure a lot of New World cigars that we might not have otherwise.
Senator:Yeah, and education is going to make or break this entire situation, right? If you're a manufacturer, if you're a retailer, you've got to spread the word to people who have exclusively had access to only Cuban cigars for most of their lives to try some of these other, you know, blends and and tobacco from different regions that in some ways will be actually similar to a Cuban profile, and in other ways will be a huge departure, but also incredibly enjoyable.
Gizmo:Yeah. And I just hope that new world manufacturers are are beginning to really, you know, make their distribution network in these countries more robust because we know in a lot of places they aren't. Like, we've talked about Padron. It is not really available in a lot of places. So hopefully, not just Padron, but a lot of these manufacturers.
Gizmo:True Estate's done a very good job of this. They're the largest in the world now, you know, by volume. But hopefully others are seeing this opportunity and are able to get cigars in these markets. It's not an easy thing to do, especially in Europe. We know that.
Gizmo:But hopefully they put some great stuff on shelves so consumers are able to
Rooster:find This is an example in our hand right now. Yeah. The cigar is kind of Cuban esque. And the people who smoke Cuban cigars who can't get them, this is a great alternative at fraction of the price.
Gizmo:Yeah. So, boys, we've come to the end of the second third now on the foundation, the Wise Man Corojo in Toro paired with this Glengoyne 12. What's everybody thinking of the pairing, the cigar, all of it?
Chef Ricky:For me, there's a little bit of a good seesaw happening right now whenever I get a new sip or fresh sip of the spirit because for me now, the final third of the cigar has gotten much more earthy. But whenever I take a sip of the scotch, it sort of just resets the palate and I'm able to get some of those sweeter notes back. So I'm liking it. It's growing on me, this pairing,
Gizmo:for sure. I think both are really working for me right now. I wish the cigar had a little more oomph, you know, just even in its Cuban profile. I wish it had it just a little bit more. I think the pairing is really nice.
Gizmo:I'm actually really enjoying the scotch. Think it's $60. I think this is really well priced. I think it's great. I'm happy.
Gizmo:I'm very, very happy. Interesting.
Pagoda:I'm not happy. With what? With both.
Gizmo:You don't like either?
Pagoda:Yeah, I didn't know. Like for me, I think I enjoyed the first third. Like, you know, it's become a little better now, like as I'm approaching the last third. In the middle, it became really flattish for me. Like it wasn't imparting any flavor.
Pagoda:And I'm not sure why, but you know, and I think in terms of the pairing, for me, the scotch is a bit, it's a bit harsh, like when it's going down. So I'm like, I'm really not enjoying the pairing or the experience at the moment. So let's see how the last develops.
Gizmo:I'm surprised to hear the word harsh because
Senator:I'm getting any
Gizmo:of don't think it's harsh at all.
Pagoda:I'm getting a little bit, definitely.
Senator:Sorry. For me, my experience is the polar opposite of pagoda. The Scotch, I don't think it's harsh at all. Especially as your palate adjusts, think it's like even I'd say smooth, very easy to drink, Lighter for a scotch as we were talking about earlier. The cigar for me, the the first two thirds were pretty much identical.
Senator:Like the sweet notes were more dominant than the earthy notes. The creaminess was present all the way through the first two thirds. It was mild, barely approaching medium through both of those. I think when you get into the final third, for me, it's now pushing medium, picks up a bit in body and strength. It's definitely more earthy than it is sweet like Shep was talking about.
Senator:That's exactly what I'm getting. So to me, it's kind of a two act play. I have enjoyed the first two acts more than I am the final one, but what I am liking in the final third is that it's picking up a bit in body.
Gizmo:Mine's definitely picked up a little bit, but it's it's it's good now. It's really good. What do you think, Bam? You're quiet.
Bam Bam:Yeah. I don't like the final third at all. Not happy with it at all. That minerality that I enjoyed in the first two thirds because it was very faint, it was enjoyed.
Chef Ricky:Oh, no.
Bam Bam:Yeah. It's pretty full full on minerality. The sweetness is completely gone.
Chef Ricky:But the Scotch saves it, especially on the retro
Gizmo:here.
Bam Bam:Yeah, I got to talk about that too. It's kind of fallen off.
Senator:This side of the room is
Gizmo:very, very Yeah, grumpy
Bam Bam:fallen it's off for me a little bit. Regarding the cigar, that minerality is just very, very strong for me right now. Is it still giving me a creamy experience? Yes, because it's still quite velvety, But at this point, I'm happy to put this down and light the padrone that I have in my pouch. Really?
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Rooster:I mean, you're a little bit further down than It's true. Almost
Gizmo:all of
Bam Bam:Kind of Senator and I are... I'm with you guys.
Gizmo:I'm right there with you too. And Yeah. I've talking a lot.
Bam Bam:That's true, that's true. And regarding the spirit, it's good. The spirit's good. I'm gonna give it a decent rating, but it's unusual for me where the more I drink it, it's very orange forward and it's a dominant experience that I'm not enjoying. But the mouthfeel is great.
Bam Bam:That heat has completely dissipated. It's gone. A very long, still fairly long finish for me, but that orange dominance is really powerful. It's something I'm not used to.
Gizmo:You're not used to the citrus?
Bam Bam:Citrus, yes, but this much orange
Senator:is Only his cigars.
Bam Bam:Yeah. This much orange is unusual for us. Really? Yeah. Getting, I'm finding it be, I don't need
Senator:any I way, but don't
Gizmo:know what's going on over there. Is there something in the air over there on that side of
Pagoda:the road?
Rooster:Don't know, for
Pagoda:me, when it's a little, like when I let a ling in my palate and it gets a little warmer, I do get a little bit of sweetness from the vanilla and all. So there's definitely some positives in this culture as well. I'm not getting
Bam Bam:I've stopped drinking
Pagoda:it, but
Bam Bam:I'll go back to it.
Rooster:I think the cigar has more positives than negatives. Yes. For sure. It's been pleasant almost throughout.
Gizmo:That would
Rooster:have
Gizmo:For
Rooster:me, a it hasn't changed a whole lot. Yeah, it has picked up.
Bam Bam:I'd like to see where you're at.
Chef Ricky:He's not as far down as we are.
Gizmo:Think when... He's just coming in the last thirty minutes.
Chef Ricky:I think another fifteen minutes he'll get to where we are and you'll start to experience some of that earthiness. But
Rooster:that's okay. I mean, a $10 cigar for a toro of this size, even if the last inch is not great, so what? I mean, most of the cigar is pretty good.
Bam Bam:Yeah, but I'm not rating it for that. I'm rating it for the flavor. Yeah, of course, the dollars are going to factor in, but I want it to be good all the way down. A Padron that I smoke is good till my fingers are burning.
Rooster:Not every cigar can be a Padron.
Bam Bam:That's true.
Pagoda:You know the cigar I was smoking earlier, I don't know whether I should mention it.
Bam Bam:No, so a super
Pagoda:loud podcast. It is stoic. I'm a stoic. Don't you dare to.
Gizmo:No, no, please don't talk about the cigar house poster.
Chef Ricky:That's stoic.
Senator:Only tell us about the cigar I've been soaking flavorful.
Pagoda:Like, really wanna put this down stoic, the original, yeah.
Rooster:We can talk about that.
Gizmo:Yeah, don't talk about Stoic.
Pagoda:We don't talk about Stoic. But that's so flavorful.
Gizmo:Course it is. Stoic's great, man.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Pigar, you're allowed to put that down.
Pagoda:I know. But I'm gonna
Gizmo:If you want to, put it down.
Pagoda:No, that's a cigar podcast.
Gizmo:Alright, boys. Let's go to another email now. Actually, this one's a voice memo from our friend Lizard Maximus. So let's let's see what he has to say.
Lizard Maximus:Hey, Giz, and the rest of the Lounge Lizards crew. I've been meaning to write since episode 250 and finally got the chance. And listen. You guys need to cut BAM some slack on this whole hairspray beauty secret reveal. As a fellow lizard with absolutely zero hair left on top, but a full long and glorious salt and pepper beard that I actively maintain, I completely understand the struggle.
Lizard Maximus:Sometimes you need a little industrial strength hold to keep things looking sharp and bolted
Bam Bam:down for the post work. Someone made this up.
Lizard Maximus:Grooming is serious business when you've got a mane to manage, so lay off the guy. Before I get to my question, I wanted to say thanks for introducing me to the Aladino Cameroon. It has become a heavy part of my regular rotation. I've gravitated towards smaller ring gauges recently, so the Queen's Perfecto and the Lonsdale have become my absolute go to sizes for it. Also, I am really enjoying the Stoic series you guys have talked about.
Gizmo:We don't talk about Stoic here.
Lizard Maximus:I was also glad to see you guys partnering with Small Batch Cigar. I've been a member of their cigar of the month club for many years now and recently subscribed at another level for even more great selections. Don't tell missus Maximus. I've always used them to track down a lot of those harder to find selections. It's a great match for the pod.
Lizard Maximus:Anyway, I wanted to get your take on a bit of lounge etiquette.
Gizmo:Here we go, Ben.
Lizard Maximus:When I'm looking back at my local spot with a good smoke and my adult beverage choice of the night, I'll occasionally see someone light up a pipe instead of a cigar. What are your thoughts on pipe smokers setting up shop in cigar lounges? Does the room note of pipe tobacco clash too much with the heavy aroma of premium cigars, or is it all part of the same Leaf brotherhood? Curious to hear where you guys stand on this and if you've run into it much. Keep up the great work on the show, and looking forward to the Lizards after dark spin off.
Lizard Maximus:Thanks again, Lizard Maximus.
Gizmo:So thanks to Lizard Maximus for the voice memo. We have a good question in there.
Bam Bam:Very good question.
Gizmo:Will say, if he's not doing, like, voice over work
Chef Ricky:Mhmm.
Gizmo:Or, like, movie trailers
Bam Bam:He's missing out.
Gizmo:With that voice Yeah. He's missing out on a very lucrative career because
Bam Bam:that's right. Lizards, Gizmo.
Gizmo:I wish I had that voice.
Bam Bam:I do too.
Gizmo:Because wow,
Pagoda:Bam, you're fucking Bam.
Gizmo:You have a good one.
Pagoda:Let's see.
Gizmo:All Alright. When when you answer the question, you have to answer it in his voice.
Pagoda:Okay? Hold on. I will.
Bam Bam:I'll make sure I do that. Wow.
Chef Ricky:Dude, I'm impressed. Me too, man.
Gizmo:So, seriously, a a great voice memo from Lizard Maximus. So his question here is, what are your thoughts on pipe smokers setting up shop in cigar lounges? Does the room note of pipe tobacco clash too much with the heavy aroma of premium cigars? Or are we all of the same brother and sisterhood of the leaf? Are not the Do same the voice.
Bam Bam:We are not in the same brotherhood. But it's a tough question to answer because you gotta respect the pipe smoker.
Gizmo:I have no problem with the pipe smoker. My father-in-law smokes a pipe when I smoke cigars in my garage.
Chef Ricky:Agree. Doesn't bother me. I could see the smell maybe overpowering what we're doing here as cigar smokers, but
Bam Bam:So hold on. When someone's smoking a flavored cigar, it's overwhelming. Someone here was doing this maybe three seats away from me, it was awful. Really?
Gizmo:Yeah. Oh, it was getting you,
Senator:Oh, I was there.
Bam Bam:You probably were there. It's tough to enjoy what you're smoking when someone's smoking anything flavored around you. So I also don't want to be a complete asshole. It's hard to tell them not to do that. It's hard to tell them to leave.
Chef Ricky:That's just it. There's nowhere for them to go. There's no pipe lounge. There's nowhere for
Pagoda:them to They should open a pipe lounge.
Rooster:There are two types of
Bam Bam:pipe
Rooster:tobaccos, aromatics and non aromatics. I don't think the non aromatic would bother
Bam Bam:you. I agree.
Senator:I'll say this. I'm going to say something very rarely completely illogical for me, and that
Bam Bam:is Is that true?
Pagoda:I That is not true.
Senator:No. I'm very logic based, but what I'm gonna say makes no sense, but this is just how I feel like Very level headed.
Gizmo:Dude, that's honestly very good.
Senator:That was not before,
Gizmo:but I very very
Pagoda:great before, but this is good. Alright. That's logic in there.
Senator:But all I'm gonna say is I'm with you on flavored cigars. They really aggravate me in a lounge.
Gizmo:Yeah.
Senator:But why I'm saying it's illogical, what's strange is for some reason, I have, like, this soft spot for pipe smokers. It's like Why? I very much feel like they're part of the folds. They're part of the crew. And I say this as someone who's never even smoked a pipe, but for some reason, there's a part of me that almost wishes I did even though I don't really have that much of a desire to.
Senator:I don't know. It's such a strange thing.
Bam Bam:It's not. It makes sense what you're saying.
Senator:Even flavored pipe tobacco. I've told this story hilariously. One of my friends, we were out very late and needed some food to sober up, we're in a McDonald's, and he lit a pipe in a McDonald's. And it was like cherry flavored... I remember telling you that.
Senator:What? So...
Gizmo:You've heard this stuff?
Bam Bam:I'm about snaring at him like in disbelief.
Senator:So we'll just say this was Where was he staring at McDonald's? This was in DC
Chef Ricky:I was just gonna say.
Senator:In my early to mid twenties. I was young. And we were out really late, ended up in a McDonald's, the only twenty four hour option there. And all I remember is just looking down at my food, and all of a sudden, I'm smelling this aromatic cherry flavor. I'm like, where is this coming from?
Senator:And I look up, and my friend just lit his pipe inside the McDonald's. The entire place is hysterically laughing.
Rooster:I mean because he's
Senator:20 smoking a pipe? Pipe in this... The in the
Gizmo:McDonald's. Ridiculous.
Senator:And then literally, one of the workers figures this out, starts screaming and yelling, kicks us out of
Pagoda:the McDonald's.
Senator:So we have to leave, but I just like That's hilarious. Even that cherry tobacco, for some reason, in a pipe, it smells good to me. Yep. A flavored cigar does not smell good to
Gizmo:me. So
Senator:I can... I know I'm not making a ton of sense, but that's just how I feel. I'm very much okay with pipe smokers. I am very much not okay with flavored cigar smokers. So that's where I come down.
Gizmo:I'm with you a 100%, by the way. My father-in-law smokes cherry flavored tobacco in his pipe, sits next to me in my garage when I'm smoking. It's different. It doesn't smell like a flavored cigar. It doesn't smell unnatural.
Gizmo:It smells good to me. I totally agree with would
Bam Bam:say this. If I may, if you're going to smoke a pipe in a cigar lounge, smoke a non aromatic tobacco so that at least it's within the realm of what everyone else is smoking.
Senator:But it's bizarrely pleasant. I sit there and I always say to myself, I kinda wish I You tried a pipe.
Bam Bam:Yeah. No.
Rooster:When you smoke a pipe with aromatic tobacco, the entire room kinda enjoys that scent. Yeah. You don't enjoy that.
Gizmo:No. Other people do. Wait. You don't
Rooster:get that? You don't you don't get much of the flavor.
Gizmo:So what's the point of doing it?
Bam Bam:I don't...
Rooster:It's just smoking a pipe.
Gizmo:But No. What's the point of Yeah. You're still
Senator:smelling it.
Rooster:You're still getting that... You're not you're not really getting that flavor in your mouth.
Gizmo:It's not a cherry flavor.
Rooster:Yeah. You're not... Yeah.
Bam Bam:If I owned the lounge, I would have a sign on the wall. If you're gonna smoke a pipe, smoke a nonaromatic, and no flavored cigars are allowed.
Senator:I now understand why he still visits North Korea because he's got as many rules as North Korea. No,
Gizmo:man. He likes
Pagoda:communism. No, but flavored are step He one,
Gizmo:likes regulation and I am
Senator:offended. No freedom.
Bam Bam:I am very offended.
Pagoda:You know, there's step one. Like a guy comes, starts smoking a flavored cigar, and then he notices everybody else is not, and then he gets introduced to other cigars. I think it's really, you know, it's like the step one towards cigars.
Rooster:Baby steps.
Pagoda:They're baby steps. It's like.
Gizmo:I totally agree with what you said as a logical senator. I totally agree. I think a flavored cigar is unbearable. It's like lighting a scented candle in the lounge.
Bam Bam:Correct.
Gizmo:A pipe, I'm totally cool with it.
Pagoda:Yeah. But you can't say no. That's all.
Gizmo:So again, thanks to Lizard Maximus, and Bam's impression of Lizard Maximus is excellent. I'm very... I'm I'm... Like, we're not I'm not busting. Like, his voice, I wish I had that voice for radio.
Gizmo:Like, that's awesome.
Bam Bam:Do you?
Gizmo:Like, every radio person wishes they had a deep voice like that. Yeah. It's it's excellent. So I hope he's made a lot of money with his voice. I want to add one more thing.
Gizmo:His voice memo was titled Hairspray Defenders Unite dot MP three.
Bam Bam:Yeah, that's all fabricated. He's not real.
Gizmo:How's he not real?
Chef Ricky:He's defending you.
Gizmo:His phone number's right here.
Bam Bam:You're very creative. We'll call him after the show. Okay. Hairspray United. Gizmo's phone's gonna ring.
Rooster:Let's call him right now.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. We should call him right now and hear his voice in real time.
Bam Bam:Anybody have any hairspray?
Gizmo:Alright, boys. It's time now to go to our lizard of the week presented by our friends at Bond Roberts. Our lizard of the week this week is our friend Lizard Ronnie from Sweden who writes an awesome email. It says here, greetings from Sweden with happy news. Hey, Lizards.
Gizmo:Lizard Ronnie from Sweden here. First off, a massive thank you for the incredible podcast. I've managed to binge through every single episode about three times now.
Senator:Just like just like Pagoda.
Gizmo:Yeah. Just like Pagoda.
Pagoda:That's perfect.
Gizmo:Pump those numbers up, baby.
Pagoda:But here's no sense of three memory just like me.
Gizmo:No memory. It says, as I've mentioned before, I listen to you guys a lot. What I love most is your raw honesty. Sitting here with my headphones on, it feels like I'm right there next to you soaking in the good vibes and enjoying a fine stick. Sometimes at work, I swear I can actually smell the cigar smoke through my screen while you're reviewing them.
Gizmo:Either that or my office building has a serious ventilation issue. This is crazy. You guys actually inspired me to take the leap and open my very own cigar shop here in Sweden. Wow.
Bam Bam:Can you imagine? That's incredible.
Rooster:That's...
Bam Bam:What I'd like to know is what inventory he has.
Gizmo:And what rules he has.
Bam Bam:Well, if he has rules, yes, but inventory.
Gizmo:Turning my favorite hobby into a full time job is all thanks to you guys, and I can't thank you enough for that extra push. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Even better, boys. Now for some big news.
Gizmo:On September eleventh of this year, our family was blessed with a wonderful little princess. We decided to name her Corojo Esplenidos. Yeah. Right. Just kidding.
Gizmo:Her name is Gabriela. But I will definitely be lighting up an actual Esplenidos to welcome her into the world. I have two questions today for the crew. Question number one, the Swedish weather nightmare, he says. Living in Sweden means dealing with absolute mood swings from mother nature.
Gizmo:It can easily be 25 degrees Celsius, which is 77 degrees Fahrenheit in the morning and plunge down to eight degrees Celsius, 46 degrees Fahrenheit by the evening. I keep my cigars in the garage where the relative humidity sits around a seemingly fine 68%, but the cigars themselves end up feeling like crispy Swedish crisp bread. He says it's named Nachabrod.
Chef Ricky:I know. I'm a big fan.
Gizmo:Are you?
Chef Ricky:Yeah. Yeah. It's usually
Gizmo:How is how is
Rooster:it Soldier bam.
Pagoda:Next. I
Bam Bam:just got it. Correct.
Gizmo:Lizards after dark, Lizard Maximus. What... Is is that a real thing? Like, you've had that? You're not kidding?
Chef Ricky:Yeah. No. It's great. It's it's usually seed based.
Senator:Delayed reaction.
Pagoda:Really? With the Angelica flavor. Oh,
Bam Bam:Go ahead, chef. I'm sorry.
Gizmo:Don't know how you pronounce it. I'm not even gonna try again, but. Nicobrades? What on earth would you do in my shoes to survive these crazy temperature drops? So what he's saying is it's often going from almost 80 degrees Fahrenheit, 25, 26 degrees Celsius, all the way down to eight degrees Celsius, 46 degrees Fahrenheit.
Gizmo:So It's an easy fix. It's kind of what we experience here in The US, like coming out of summer, going into the fall. We have those kind of swings. Yeah. So what do you recommend for him?
Rooster:Not move the cigars in the
Gizmo:house instead of the garage?
Bam Bam:Yes.
Gizmo:It's a good question.
Pagoda:Get a humidor.
Rooster:It's that simple. Controlled environment. I don't know
Gizmo:why he does it. Maybe he can't because of his new baby, Cohiba Asplundidos.
Pagoda:And if he's lighting up a cigar, he can get the L Septimo cigar.
Senator:That's what was gonna say. I think he just needs an ashtray that cools the cigar, heats the cigar Correct. Based on the temperature.
Bam Bam:It won't oxidize.
Rooster:Well, he's not smoking in the house. He can keep the cigars in the house.
Senator:That's true.
Bam Bam:Yeah. Yeah. Walls are insulated. That's where it should be.
Rooster:Yeah. We all had kids. So kids were born. I mean, we were smoking in house.
Bam Bam:Except for you.
Gizmo:Question number two, the Cuban drought. So this goes back to what we were discussing earlier, boys. Over here in The Nordics, the main Cuban distributor, Habanos Nordic, has officially shut down operations. Word on the street is it'll take three to four years before we see Cuban cigars on our shelves again. Since we don't have the luxury of endless variety like you guys do in The US, how would you navigate a sudden drought like this, and what should I focus on as a shop owner?
Gizmo:Thank you for all the hard work you put into the show. You make my daily routine so much better. Long live the Lounge Lizards worldwide. Cheers, Lizard Ronnie.
Bam Bam:Well, it goes to my question earlier. What do you have got in your shop?
Gizmo:It's a fair question.
Bam Bam:Yeah.
Gizmo:I mean, clearly, I think what he's experiencing is I'm sure he had some Cubans, and now he's kinda realizing that those shelves are empty. Yeah.
Rooster:I mean, he's gonna have to stock up as many new worlds he can, but I don't know what he can really access.
Gizmo:Don't know how... What the rules are. I don't know what the rules are like. Does, you know, does the the... You know, where he's at here in in Sweden, do they require it come through a distributor, bonded warehouses?
Gizmo:Does it have to be do SKUs have to be registered? Like, it may not be as easy as just picking up the phone and calling somebody outside the market. Like, he might be... His hands might be tied.
Bam Bam:Go back to your commentary about InterTabac and all the makers that were there. You can source cigars from them. They're in Europe. No?
Gizmo:Some. Okay. I'm sure some are trying to get into Europe.
Pagoda:Okay.
Chef Ricky:I mean, this might be a dumb question, but is Fabric of Five or or Bon Roberts in retail shops
Senator:out there?
Pagoda:No.
Gizmo:They're not in retail shops. You can order them as a consumer, but that's the whole reason that you're able to get them as reasonably as you are, is it's direct to consumer. They're not going through a distribution retail network. That's why they're $810. That's why they're not 20.
Chef Ricky:So maybe this is a great time for Rob to consider getting into that.
Gizmo:Or or Lizard Ronnie could purchase them and just more he can purchase them
Chef Ricky:and resell them accordingly.
Gizmo:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he doesn't have to have a retail relationship. Just order them and mark them up. But again, I don't know what the import rules are.
Gizmo:I don't know how all that works for him. Yeah. It seems like if he had a solution to this, he probably wouldn't be asking.
Chef Ricky:Well, if he doesn't have those limitations, that's what I would do. And then I would put the flavor notes and the similarities between that and whatever Cubans they compare to or align with on a placard of some kind so that people know like, hey, if you're looking for this, this is a great substitute for that. He
Pagoda:opened up
Bam Bam:Put up a sign next to the rules and
Chef Ricky:you have rules,
Bam Bam:you go, all they know.
Rooster:He opened a cigar store. He must have put some thought into it about you need inventory.
Gizmo:You know what I kidding wonder is Cubans. What I wonder is if he's able to allow his customers to smoke in the shop.
Bam Bam:That's a good question.
Gizmo:You know, I don't know if in Sweden they would allow that, especially since he's a new entrant to the market, but It'd be great
Bam Bam:to hear from him.
Gizmo:I would love some follow-up on this, but of course, if that's the case, I think you need to turn your business into hospitality and focus on offering a great place with great service, maybe some booze.
Bam Bam:Coffees.
Gizmo:Good coffees, etcetera. Sweet ish meatballs.
Chef Ricky:So it's also a great point you brought up on your episode with Cigar Soldier. A lot of lounge owners forget they're in the hospitality
Gizmo:Correct?
Senator:Oh, Pagoda mentioned this to me.
Pagoda:Oh, wow, yeah. Well,
Senator:he listened to it too. He did. Did. Did.
Pagoda:Yeah. You're more than an A plus.
Gizmo:A plus plus. So, yeah, I mean, that's a tough situation. I mean, and again, it points to what we talked about earlier. I mean, if he's saying that it might take three to four years for Cubans to reenter a Swedish market, I mean, that's a long time for a product to be out of the market, right? I mean, even if it were to come back, it's not going to come back with the excitement and volume that it was in the past.
Gizmo:I mean, people's habits and preferences change. I mean, three to four years in today's environment is an eternity. Yeah. So I I feel like it... They have a really tough situation over there.
Gizmo:So again, I hope he's able to get some good cigars. But Lizard Ronnie, we did have some good questions for you there, so please follow-up. And congratulations again to him, not only for winning Lizard of the Week and a 10 count box cigars from our friends at Bon Roberts, but also
Chef Ricky:Having the attention span to listen to the same episode three times.
Gizmo:Listening to 700... Effectively 750 some odd episodes of the Correct. But also welcoming little Gabriela into the world.
Bam Bam:Of course.
Gizmo:So congratulations to him and his family, and I hope that you're able to enjoy one of those Bon Robert cigars in celebration of Could
Bam Bam:he send us a pack of those crackers?
Gizmo:I think chef can get them
Chef Ricky:for you. No, they're great. They're kind of like rectangular seed crackers, and in a lot of Nordic shops, they make little sandwiches with them. Oh. Yeah, dried fish and different spreads and whatnot.
Chef Ricky:That sounds great. Yeah.
Pagoda:No, I do love that. Really? Dried fish and bucket. Love that. I all that.
Pagoda:I'm sorry.
Gizmo:Bogota, you are one of one, my friend. Alright. One more email now. This one's from our friend Lizard Buzz writes us a lot. He says, now that True Estate is a sponsor, will Rooster be smoking acid cigars?
Pagoda:They're banned.
Rooster:I might be doing more acid. But
Gizmo:Honestly, they have a great selection, and they will make a great sponsor for you guys. Something for everyone. You need to interview Pedro Gomez when you get a chance. He has a great story of how he made himself from a kid growing up in Esteli into, I'll say, an executive with True Estate. Thanks for the great podcast, Lizard Buzz.
Gizmo:So, boys, we are coming to the end of our evening with the Glengoyne twelve years aged Highland single malt scotch whiskey paired with this foundation, the Wise Man Corojo in Toro. What's everybody thinking of the pairing?
Bam Bam:It was a very interesting night tonight. One I may want to forget.
Gizmo:Honestly, I I can't... I'm serious, dude. I I don't get your and Pagoda, the level of negativity on the pairing. I did not experience that at all with either of the entrants. Like, I thought both were very, very passable and acceptable here.
Pagoda:I like the sound. Thought they good.
Bam Bam:So where are you, Roosters? You're not even near where I was. You're such a slow smoker.
Gizmo:Unhurried since 1833. Correct.
Pagoda:And walking the streets as well. Sorry. I'm trying to avoid to get to that.
Rooster:I'm trying to avoid
Bam Bam:getting jobs again. Unhurried.
Rooster:So why rush time? Enjoy it.
Gizmo:That's good. What does Davinoff say? You can't rush the spent Oh, yeah. What's... You can't rush the hands of time?
Gizmo:Is that spent time beautifully. Beautifully. Time Time beautifully filled.
Bam Bam:Yeah. There you go. Even better.
Gizmo:Senator, what do you think of the pairing coming into the ratings?
Senator:I think the pairing worked. I mean, the lighter nature of the scotch definitely lended itself to a milder smoke like we had tonight.
Pagoda:Mhmm.
Senator:The kinda honey dessert like notes that the scotch had being unpeated also I think worked well with the cigar since for the vast majority of the smoke. It was more sweet than it was savory. So I do think the pairing worked. I was happy in a number of ways with both. It'll reflect in my rating, but I feel good.
Gizmo:Chef, what do you think?
Chef Ricky:I I agree with senator. The the, you know, the first two thirds were exceptional for me. The final third required a little bit of... Exceptional? Yeah.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. I really enjoyed the first two thirds. Honestly,
Gizmo:I'm I'm in total agreement with him.
Chef Ricky:Especially with the fact that it was a Nicaraguan cigar for me. It was just like... I was I was pleasantly surprised. That is... That's true.
Chef Ricky:Final third took a little bit of work and appreciation to kind of get to a point where you know, where I felt where, okay, I kind of enjoy what's going on. The final third for me took a little bit of work to appreciate. Okay. But sometimes that's a good thing, you know, especially when the first two thirds are as easy as they were.
Gizmo:Alright, boys, send your ratings over.
Bam Bam:Yep.
Gizmo:But it's time now to get into the formal liquor rating on the Glengoyne twelve years aged Highland Single Malt Scotch Whiskey. Bam Bam, you're up.
Bam Bam:Alright. So, you know, initially I was in an eight. I enjoyed it. I thought it was very unique. The orange peel experience was very mild.
Bam Bam:It was honey forward for me, and I'd loved the finish. As I drank it, and I drank a lot of it, I may have drank it way too many sips just too quickly, I felt overwhelmed by that very specific orange peel. I dropped to a seven in my mind. But, you know, I'm drinking
Gizmo:it
Bam Bam:now. I've taken my time with it. There's a nice... Someone mentioned a nice buttery mouthfeel that's still there. I'm I'm gonna give it an eight.
Bam Bam:I'm not sure if I'll have this again, but if it's served, I'll definitely drink it slowly. I'll have one glass. But I think overall was fine. Not incredible, not great, but fine. Eight.
Bam Bam:Chef?
Chef Ricky:I'm at an eight two. You know, the the the first few sips for me were a little bit shocking and thin, and and, you know, I was getting some sweet notes early on, but it it was a little astringent or harsh going down. As the palate adjusts, you start the... You know, some of the sweet notes started sticking around, some vanilla as Pagoda noted earlier, know, some lemon, some orange, just overall citrus, and then, Senator, you made a great point, and I think this is all because the spirit started sort of heating up or warming up, Where for me at that stage in this, that's where I started getting some apple, some more of the pleasant notes, some cinnamon, but I do wish that that lingered a bit longer. I feel like the finish was a little short and some of those really pleasant flavors just dissipated a bit too quick for me and the citrus lingered more than that.
Bam Bam:I got a touch of heat, but that evaporated quickly. It wasn't harsh at all. The experience was fantastic. I could have used it just a touch of a different profile.
Gizmo:Sure.
Chef Ricky:Yeah. And for me really the only Knox, I wish it was a more viscous spirit, a little bit more concentrated in flavor and the flavors that I enjoyed. But, you know, at $60, this is a great, you know, a good scotch. I think maybe even more so for warmer months. I think as we are coming into these cooler months, I want something that's a little more viscous, a little more
Bam Bam:fruit No ice though.
Chef Ricky:No ice, no ice. No. Yeah, and this doesn't need ice. Think if you added ice to this, you would lose all sweetness.
Bam Bam:It'd be awful.
Chef Ricky:And you would just get, yeah, some of this in her notes, for me it's an eight.
Gizmo:So before we get to Pagoda's rating, I want to flag a little bit of a discrepancy. I did not receive a ratings text from Chef.
Chef Ricky:I just noticed. I'm literally putting...
Gizmo:So, Pagoda, what do we do we do about this?
Bam Bam:It's gotta go on a pip. Oh, Life.
Gizmo:As our sergeant at arms, what would you do? I mean, is an egregious omission.
Pagoda:It is, because he's been such a great student today. I'm just really disappointed at the way it's ended.
Rooster:I think he gets an extra neck abroad.
Pagoda:Just because he'd been so good today.
Gizmo:So we'll have to we'll have to see here, but I just got Chef's text with his ratings. So, Chef, were you influenced at all before you sent that text?
Chef Ricky:No, I was not. I don't know.
Pagoda:What was his rating?
Bam Bam:An eight. An eight.
Gizmo:Alright, Pagoda, you're up.
Pagoda:All right, it's a seven for me. I kind of toyed between eight to be very, very honest, but having said that, just didn't do much for me. It's a mild recommend. Like for me, it felt a little harsh on my chest. And it's not like, and I really thought about it quite a few times while drinking it.
Pagoda:In terms of the flavor profile, yeah, meaning the citrus forward, you know, the orange, lemon. You know, when it really warmed up in my palate and let it linger for a bit, definitely got a bit of the sweeter notes. The viscosity is light, you know, which I don't really take away either way. But my thought is if you're paying $60 for a drink, you know, there's so many other options at $60, including a Belverny, you know. And my thought is, is this something I would buy?
Pagoda:I don't think I would be buying this. It felt a little harsher than usual for me like because I think I'm very, very comfortable around 40. I don't know whether 43 kind of contributed to it because some of these high approved spirits are also very, smooth. You know, we've experienced that recently I think in some of the previous ones. It didn't do much for me.
Pagoda:And having said that, you know, lift I the rating at a seven. But I did toy between an eight and a seven. It's definitely a mild recommend from my perspective.
Gizmo:So for me it's an eight. And you know, I honestly, I was kind of in between an eight and nine. I thought the spirit tonight was very good. I didn't get down to that seven number, but I went with an eight. I thought it paired very well with the cigar tonight.
Gizmo:You know, I think somebody else said it. I don't think I would reach for this again. I think it's a very good spirit, but I'm not gonna go buy this. And I think you kinda took what was in my brain as far as the comparison point is I bought a bottle of Balvini Doublewood the other day for $63 So for this, it's $60 That is $63 You know, both 12s, I mean, that's in another league.
Pagoda:Absolutely.
Gizmo:Right? As far as performance
Pagoda:tastes Not a every step up. Huge
Gizmo:step It's a major step up. But I do think what we had tonight for what it did in the room, the pairing, I I really, really enjoyed it. For me, it's an eight. Senator?
Senator:So I'm in a seven. I think the the best part about it for me was the mouthfeel. I really liked how buttery it was for a twelve year scotch. It's probably got the most buttery mouthfeel I can think of. The flavor profile, the honey dessert notes were good.
Senator:They're notes I enjoy, but to me, it lacked, like, depth. It lacked refinement. Or... Not refinement. It's not the right word.
Senator:It lacked complexity. Like, it was very straightforward, just like dessert notes. You know? It's fine that there's no Pete. I'm not a huge Pete person.
Bam Bam:Straightforward could be a merit from time to time.
Senator:It can, but for me, not in the right way. Like, I would rather drink Glen Levett 12 over this.
Bam Bam:Oh, hell yeah.
Senator:And that's because, like, Glen Levett 12, like that pineapple note, it's the only spirit I've ever had that has that odd but interesting note. There's nothing that interesting or remarkable about this. Like, you know, Bam, I think, said in his rating, it's fine. Like, I agree. It...
Senator:It's just fine.
Pagoda:Mhmm.
Senator:There's nothing terrible about it. There's nothing that interesting or noteworthy about it. It's just there. And at $60, it needs to be more than just fine.
Pagoda:Mhmm.
Senator:That's a premium price point for a spirit. That's... You know, balcony is the definition of a premium single malt. So I can't ever see myself pouring this or serving this to someone at my house and saying that there's something all that remarkable for them to experience here. I think if, you know, I I use the airport lounge kind of example, like, if you're in an airport lounge, if you're on a plane, a train, and this were an option, like, it's fine.
Senator:It's gonna do its job and get you there, but it's nothing that I would seek out. And so that's why I'm at a mild recommended seven.
Pagoda:And even at the airport, you know, there's so many glands from the liver to the FedEx. You're
Bam Bam:gonna chew
Pagoda:one of those, which definitely provide a lot more versatility and, you know, in terms of the flavor profile. It is a mild recommend, like, if you think about it. Mhmm.
Bam Bam:And the rating will show that.
Gizmo:So boys, the former liquor rating tonight on the Glengoyne twelve years aged Highland single malt scotch whiskey is a 7.6.
Pagoda:That's good.
Gizmo:I think that's a fair rating for the experience in the room tonight. Yeah. All right, boys. It's time now for the formal lizard rating on the Foundation, the Wise Man Corojo in Toro. Rooster, you're up.
Rooster:So this Foundation cigar, I'm at a solid eight. I think the cigar had more positives than negatives. It had great construction, great smoke output. The cigar for this size, for a Toro, at $10 I think it's great value for what you get out of the cigar. The cigar wasn't very complex, but yet it was very balanced.
Rooster:It didn't have a lot of different notes. I think all of us got a creamy note. It was a little bit sweet graham cracker kind of thing happening. Cigar was very pleasant throughout. I think only at the very end, it got a little
Bam Bam:How far did you get down?
Rooster:About an inch.
Bam Bam:Show me.
Rooster:It's right there. I'm not gonna stick my hand in that ashes.
Bam Bam:Is it the one hanging out right there?
Rooster:No. I think that's
Bam Bam:That's inside our chef's.
Pagoda:Prove it.
Senator:How far did you get down? Show me.
Chef Ricky:No, that's not mine. I think that's Chef's.
Rooster:So anyway, I I think the cigar is very pleasant. It's a good value cigar. I'm at a solid eight. There's nothing really offensive about that cigar. It's a pleasant cigar.
Rooster:I think anybody should go out and definitely give it a shot. It's pretty versatile, too. You can smoke this in the morning, afternoon. Like we said, even if you're smoking multiple cigars in the evening, this would be a great starter cigar. So I'm at an eight.
Rooster:Senator?
Senator:So I completely agree with Rooster. I'm also at an eight. There's almost a part of me. I'm I'm really hoping that there's a nine in the room.
Bam Bam:Excuse
Senator:me? It's better than an eight. It's it's better than an 80 cigar. Wow. The the construction, as Rooster said, was excellent.
Senator:The combustion was very good. The draw was perfect on mine. And the flavor profile, again, to take Nicaraguan tobacco... You know, we said this with the Cabay Guan, to take Nicaraguan tobacco and tame it in this way, I would be completely fooled blind. I would never guess that this is Nicaraguan tobacco.
Senator:I would immediately assume it's Honduran.
Gizmo:A Nicaraguan poro. That's the craziest part. Everything.
Senator:I mean, you would never know. And so I think that's a huge merit, and I think with Nicaraguan tobacco to have blended something that we're talking about starting our day with with a cup of coffee, enjoying an afternoon, or starting the evening with this cigar, that's not common with this tobacco. So I think the the blend is really something interesting and unique. For me, the first two thirds were definite approaching a nine. Mhmm.
Senator:The creaminess, you know, you usually get that from aged tobacco. The dessert notes that were more prominent than the savory notes, which I prefer and like, I really enjoyed. The reason I ended at the eight, the final third, it got more savory than sweet, which I can live with, but my problem was the very last inch and especially half inch of the cigar, it started to get for me to the point of, like, acidic almost, like, at the very end. Correct. And I had to factor that in.
Senator:Yeah. I mean, I think Bam's point earlier, you know, a Padron you could smoke to the knob. There are a number of other cigars that that holds true for, and that wasn't the case here. But there's so much to appreciate about this cigar. I would definitely smoke it again.
Senator:It has a unique and distinct place in where I would slot it in my rotation. So for all those reasons, hats off to, you know, Nick Malillo and the team. I think they did a really nice job, and I'm at as strong of an eight as I can give.
Gizmo:So you said that you hope there's a nine in the room? That's where
Bam Bam:I'm Good.
Gizmo:There we go. I'm at a nine, and I was. And I'll tell you why. Okay? And I'm shocked that there are potentially sevens in this room.
Gizmo:Potentially. A bunch of eights. I don't know. I mean, I didn't look at the ratings.
Bam Bam:Uh-huh.
Gizmo:I thought this was a very, very good cigar. I think the fact that we sat here and compared it to a La Corona bench cigar, okay, which Wow.
Lizard Christoph:You
Gizmo:did. No, but you agreed.
Bam Bam:The way it looked, sure. I agree with the No. Can
Senator:Yeah, could roll I'm
Gizmo:gonna have to
Bam Bam:roll the tape on it. Said it looked like it. Looked like it, sure.
Pagoda:The
Gizmo:hairspray's getting your brain.
Pagoda:I
Gizmo:thought this cigar was very Cubanesque. I do wish that it had a little more oomph to it. We talked about that pagoda, but I thought the blend was excellent. Like you said, the fact that this is Nicaraguan is shocking. Nobody in this room, if we were smoking this, would have said anything other than this is Cuban or potentially Honduran.
Gizmo:I don't even think it's Honduran. This... There there really is some Cuban esque notes here. But why did I give it to nine? Number one, construction.
Gizmo:This cigar performed brilliantly. I didn't, you know, have any issues with it. The only time I touched it up was when I was talking a lot. I think the price. Coming in at $10 I'm sure there are some moments with a great sale.
Gizmo:You're gonna get it in the single digits. For this cigar, this performance, this much tobacco felt great in your hand. I think there's a lot of value here. I think that this is a great entrant for someone. Is there a duck in the room over there?
Gizmo:Bam just opened the the whiskey again. I I really, really enjoyed the cigar. I'm I'm at a low nine. Obviously, we choose whole numbers, but
Pagoda:A low nine? This is
Gizmo:this is not a 94, 95 cigar. This is a ninety, ninety one for me. Mhmm. I I really, really was impressed with this tonight, and I wish what seeming like is gonna be a lower rating than I think it should be. I wish this was gonna touch higher than that.
Gizmo:But for me, it's a nine. I'm very, very happy with that score, and I will be buying a box of these. Pagoda.
Pagoda:I'm at a seven, and there's no doubt about it. And I really like Nick Melillo. I've loved the El Guinta. I've loved the Tabernacle.
Senator:And he hates you now.
Gizmo:Sounds like you hate
Pagoda:him now.
Bam Bam:No, I don't know.
Pagoda:You know, I do agree with you. The construction is fantastic. You know, did touch it up a couple of times, but overall fantastic. Not a lot of ash in me. I think it's great.
Gizmo:Ash in
Pagoda:works Smokes really well. Know, if I were to pick up a cigar, hand it over, There's
Senator:some stades.
Pagoda:Stades. That's
Senator:not from the cigar.
Pagoda:Gotta do a laundry once in a while. Hey hey, no laundry man. No laundry. No, so just overall, think the perspective, I was thinking about this because I do like Nick Mallelo and I like, you know, the overall marker. But you know, I really didn't enjoy it that much.
Pagoda:I think for me, it was very mild. A little too mild for my flavor profile. You know, I do like a lot of flavor. Like I was having the Stewit right before this, and that's so flavorful. And for me, this wasn't there.
Pagoda:I didn't even find, you know, I think a lot of people were experiencing a lot of sweetness. I thought it was a very mild sweetness, a little bit of the cookie flavor. I think somebody had mentioned cookie at some point in time. I was getting a little bit of that, but it wasn't overly pronounced. I don't think it did much for me.
Pagoda:It wasn't very distinctive. It became really flat in the, you know, the second half for me. You know, was smoking, like it was just a cigar smoking with a smoke output. And so it becomes very difficult to recommend, you know, from a value perspective, great value for a cigar, know, with $10 is a price. But it's one of the things, you know, the cigars you want to rate higher, but you know, you have to be kind of true to what you're really feeling, and it's a mild recommend.
Pagoda:It's a seven.
Gizmo:Alright, chef. I'm at an
Chef Ricky:eight, and I'm at an eight because for me, the first two thirds were nines, And the final inch inch and a half... No. Not inch and a half inch, as senator said, was a seven for me. That final inch that final inch to half inch really got like mushroom, earth, mineral, tannic. And, you know, the pairing allowed that to sort of taper off at times.
Chef Ricky:But if I didn't have the spirit, that's all I would get. And I probably would have put it down much sooner. So, you know, with that being said, I think this is a great eat. I'd love to have this in the morning, early afternoon, even to start a session in the evening. And, you know, kudos to Foundation because I feel like they're known for making heavy, you know, strong cigars.
Chef Ricky:And I think at least for me, I feel like the fact that they were able to take this Nicaraguan tobacco and do what they did with it. For me, that's worth something, especially when you're known for putting out cigars that lean heavier. So for me, it's a very comfortable weight and I'd get a fiver.
Bam Bam:Not a box.
Gizmo:Bam, bam, you're up.
Bam Bam:You know, the first two thirds were great. I can't I can't deny that. That... But that final third for me was really tough to get through, and I like to smoke my cigars all the way down to the bloody end. But it left me nothing memorable.
Bam Bam:I didn't have a memorable experience in that final third. I put that cigar down. I've already forgotten about it. And I don't smoke during the day. So for me, the application of this cigar for me personally, it doesn't have utility because I'm never a daytime smoker, so I won't ever pick up this cigar.
Senator:We've established that that's false, but keep going.
Bam Bam:Very rarely. I would love to be smoking more during the day, I don't do it as often as y'all do. So for me, the cigar is a seven. I can't give a cigar a great rating if I don't have a great experience all the way through, and that final third was just tough for me. It was tough to get through.
Bam Bam:It wasn't good. It was harsh. It smoked like an extremely young cigar. A lot of acidic backup for me. It just wasn't what I was hoping it would be.
Rooster:But what was your rating on the two thirds of the cigar?
Bam Bam:Probably an eight, you know?
Rooster:Did you like the two thirds more than the Cabay Gwan
Senator:or about No, the I would say
Bam Bam:the Cabay Gwan was more enjoyable for me. But that Cabo Guan, right down to the end, was extremely smooth and creamy right down to the fingertips. I didn't get that here.
Senator:The final third of the Cabo Guan for me is not that.
Bam Bam:Yeah, I didn't get that. So it was a different experience for me.
Senator:And I'll also say I prefer the first two thirds of this cigar over the
Bam Bam:Cabo
Senator:And
Rooster:we gave it a 10.
Bam Bam:And it's a better cigar as I noted.
Rooster:Saying the opposite of what you're saying. Cigar has more body than the Cabo Iguan does.
Bam Bam:Yeah, it wasn't, overall, it was a fine, it was okay. But for me, an okay rating is a seven. It's not something I'm ever gonna try again. I'm not gonna recommend it.
Gizmo:There's something in the whiskey over there with
Pagoda:you too. No, but you know, having said that, with everybody having enjoyed at least two thirds of cigars, you're looking at the rating, it's about an eight either way, right? You put a nine
Senator:And regardless of what the Cabo So was
Pagoda:7.8 is approximately We're
Bam Bam:not smoking a Cabo Eguan right now. We're smoking
Senator:this cigar. No, but I'm just comparing because
Rooster:that also had Nicaraguan tobaccos. They were poor Nicaraguan, and it was on a milder profile. And I think the Cabojo Iguan was a bit milder than this. This had more flavor, more body, I would say. Not flavor, but more body than I the Cabojo Iguan
Bam Bam:had a different experience than what y'all...
Pagoda:Me too.
Gizmo:So boys, the former lizard rating tonight on the foundation, the wise man Corojo in Toro is a 7.8.
Bam Bam:Excellent score. Out case.
Gizmo:I think that's low. Honestly, I think that's low. I think the sevens were way too harsh. And I think comparing the Cabo Iguan to this, it's not that far off in the Cabo Iguan. For me, I gave this a nine, the Cabo Iguan, a 10.
Gizmo:I love that cigar. I love this cigar. This is just one step down from the Cabo Iguan for me. But I think a 7.8 on this is a problem.
Rooster:See, I want to go back to Pagoda's commentary about the cigari. You mentioned that you don't like a milder profile. The Cabo Iguan was on the milder
Pagoda:I wasn't on that.
Rooster:But you were not there for that. So I wonder what
Pagoda:you would have rated
Rooster:the kaba eguan.
Pagoda:No, but not only milder. You know, some cigars are milder, but very flavorful. Right? There's some cigars which are milder, but
Rooster:But that's what I thought this was.
Pagoda:For me, it wasn't very flavorful. I didn't get the pronounced sweetness, you know, which everybody was talking about, and I didn't get, you know,
Gizmo:Had a
Bam Bam:touch any kind of sweetness.
Pagoda:It was very mild in its delivery, even for the sweetness, even for, like, you gotta be able to enjoy the cigar, man. Like, But the beginning of my thought is what's also unusual for mild Only these
Senator:two guys had ashtray that cooled the cigars so
Gizmo:they could
Chef Ricky:get the They same
Pagoda:got a little hot
Gizmo:over there.
Bam Bam:It's also very unusual for a mild cigar to end in such a harsh manner. That's kind of rare.
Gizmo:You also blew through your cigar, I wanna say.
Bam Bam:I did I did. No. I honestly Slow down.
Senator:In cigars, it's the opposite.
Rooster:It's just And I don't think it's the last third. It's the very last last
Senator:I actually think that most mild cigars in the final inch or half inch actually end bitter. And I think that, like, Maduros and fuller flavored cigars
Bam Bam:It's little better.
Senator:Far easier to have a smoother finish all the way down to the nub.
Gizmo:So, boys, let's compare this rating to the five other foundation cigars we've done. We'll start on episode 43, Foundation, the Tabernacle Robusto in Maduro, 8.2. On episode 106, the Foundation Olmec Robusto in Claro was an eight. On episode 122, The Tabernacle in Lancero was an 8.7. On episode two twenty eight, The Foundation at the Tabernacle Havana Seed Lancero, the sister to the one I just said, was an 8.6.
Gizmo:And finally, the cigar, this replaced on episode 95, the El Wawenze, The Wise Man, Torojo, identical to this, a 7.8.
Pagoda:From a rating, the range is what? 7.8 to 8.6?
Gizmo:Yeah, 8.7. 8.7, yeah. So that's that for Foundation and this cigar tonight. See, we have the Charter Oak in Pegnatoro coming up from Foundation in the future. I have those already, so we'll see how that does.
Gizmo:But boys, we have to congratulate again our lizard of the week, Lizard Ronnie with that great email sharing that he opened a shop. Just had a baby, Gabriela.
Pagoda:Yep.
Gizmo:Good for him. I hope he answers some of those questions we had for him that we could do a little bit of follow-up. But of course, thanks to Lizard Ronnie and thanks to all of the Lizards who send stuff in and contribute to this show. Please keep it coming. Emails, voice memos, Spotify, Instagram, YouTube comments, Reddit, DMs, whatever you want.
Gizmo:We love to hear from you. We love, love, love to hear from you, so please keep it coming. And, of course, thanks to Bond Roberts for sending our lizards of the week a 10 count box of cigars of their choice each week. We really appreciate it. It's an awesome gift that we've been able to share with Lizard Nation.
Gizmo:Of course, we have to thank smallbatchcigar.com, boys, Using our code lizard 15, you're gonna save 15% off your entire order, plus 5% back in rewards, plus free shipping all the time, plus great samplers, plus curated experiences. Call them up on the phone. They will help you. They're great. Smallbatchcigar.com.
Gizmo:And, of course, our new friends at Drew Estate, the rebirth of cigars. Register now for their thirtieth anniversary celebration rewards program at de30rewards.com and get rewarded for smoking and buying their cigars. All you have to do is upload your receipt, get points, you win free stuff. It's super simple. Check it out.
Gizmo:De30rewards.com. And finally, boys, our presenting sponsor, FabricA five. Gonna have one right after this. Fabrica005.com. Use our code lizard pod for 10% off your entire order.
Gizmo:Everything in their store, including Bon Roberts, all orders over a $125 here in The US ship free. International, $200 and up ship free. Boys, I'll be honest. The night felt better to me than a 7.6 on the Glengoyne 12 years age Highland single malt Scotch Whiskey and a 7.8 on the Foundation, the Wise Man, Corojo, and Toro. Those ratings seem low for the experience we had Am I crazy?
Bam Bam:No. It's a good night regardless of what we're consuming.
Gizmo:No. No. But I'm saying forget it being a good night. I'm saying what we consumed Mhmm. Seems higher than a seven six, seven eight respectively.
Bam Bam:Incorrect.
Gizmo:Well, we have go to
Senator:Bam to thank
Pagoda:for that. Thanks
Senator:a lot, guys.
Pagoda:You're welcome. It's been a great night.
Gizmo:They're fist bumping over there in the miserable corner. But seriously, I I do think it was low. I I think both deserve to be in the eights. What do you
Bam Bam:guys think? Alright.
Pagoda:Yep. Agreed.
Senator:There'd be another great accountability hour on this. Yeah.
Gizmo:We'll try again next week, boys.
Bam Bam:We will not be doing that.
Gizmo:And we'll see everybody next week. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, loungelizardspod.com. That's loungelizardspod.com.
Gizmo:Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, you if wanna reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking, email us. Hello at loungelizardspod.com. You can also find us on Instagram at Lounge Lizards Pod. We really appreciate your time, and we'll, we'll see you next week.