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Hosted by Toby Cryns and Kurt von Ahnen, the Agency Action Podcast (Part of the WP Minute Podcast Network) dives into the real-world ups and downs of running a WordPress agency. Each week, Toby and Kurt share open, honest conversations about the challenges and victories that come with building client relationships, pricing projects, finding the right tools, and growing a sustainable business.
Whether you’re just launching your agency or refining your systems, you’ll get practical insights from two agency owners who live it every day—along with stories that remind you you’re not alone in this wild WordPress world of global teams, AI disruption, and constant change.
Follow the show and explore more at TheWPMinute.com/podcasts
Toby Cryns (00:00)
Welcome to another exciting episode of the Agency Action Show starring Kurt von Ahnen and myself, Monsieur Toby Cryns Kurt,
Kurt von Ahnen (00:09)
Toby, how are you, man?
Toby Cryns (00:10)
good. I had a question for ya. I heard you saying, screw that, we only serve cheap clients.
Kurt von Ahnen (00:15)
Yeah, you heard me say that.
Dude, this is this is such a timely statement. I I I I I didn't say it off camera, but I'll say it now. My wife and I were literally looking at our stripe account, right? So I I do a lot of business on Stripe, Stripe comes through. And there there's a person on that Stripe account that when the phone rings, my face turns red. When the email comes in, my you know, I my heart rate goes up. I just like, but there's she goes, she goes, why do you put up with it? And I go.
Let me show you. I opened up the Stripe account, and our number one client for revenue is that person. And, you know, we talk a lot on the show about, you know, freedom. You know, we got the freedom of this. You own your own business. You make your own decisions. I do make that decision. That decision is: you're in the number one slot in my Stripe account. You get to call me, you get to email me, you get to text me, you get to ask me questions that annoy the crud out of me. Because
You're in the number one spot. what was the other thing that was interesting, and and you know, looking at how we're gonna break these out through our notes, you can break it into like dates. I can say, where were we in 2021? What was our average client? Where were we in 22, 23, 24? And I will tell you, we are easily five X per client where we were four years ago. And and that to me, like, so we only serve cheap clients?
No.
Do we serve cheap clients? Yes. Do we seek out? No.
Toby Cryns (01:36)
One reaction to what you just said. Like I think you're you're you're towing like the conventional wisdom line there, like in in the Mighty Mo mostly follows that too. Where like the the gist of it is we're trying to get our average client value up. There is a whole business model. like at Basecamp.com follows the opposite, which is everyone pays a hundred bucks.
And you all get the exact same product, exact same service. And by the way, it's a great product. and you
Kurt von Ahnen (02:02)
Yeah.
Toby Cryns (02:02)
know, there are lots of SaaS tools that follow that model. And I there are also some service tools, service models like that. I mean, you could talk look at GoDaddy, for example. Everybody gets the same phone number, you know, you get the same number in line, regardless of if you're a big company or a small company. There's a lot to like about that too. You know, for one, you're div diversifying. I always think like
If you can make a go of it and have a really good go with a lot of clients paying very little, your risk is in theory spread out more than if you have a s higher value clients paying
Kurt von Ahnen (02:36)
It's the
deep versus wide scenario. You know, do you want to go really deep with clients where each one has more status and claim, you know, in your success? Or do you want to spread it out wide so that you have more security? So with width comes security, and with depth generally comes profit. that's the way a lot of people, like a lot of business people, would phrase that. So
Toby Cryns (02:55)
I don't think so. With
the with with I mean the examples I gave I I assume are highly profitable. Like the the wide models. You know, it's just like you gotta make it work. You can't divide I mean, obviously you can't provide the same level of service that we're providing if you're just charging a small amount.
Kurt von Ahnen (03:09)
Yeah. Well that's
when you're looking at like a commoditized scalable product or subscription model where everything is the same, I definitely see that. For instance, I'm gonna give you a wicked for instance. Manana Namas, we have a startup package for especially for our local clients. I mean, anyone can sign up, but our local clients, fifteen hundred dollar startup, fifty-five dollars a month, boom. You know, you're gonna get an AI-assisted templated website, you're gonna put in your own pictures and headings.
but for all intents or purposes, you get, you know, a a form CRM five page marketing site ready to go. And it's it's that budget. And we do that over and over and over again. But I'm very clear that it is a it is a it's a product, it's not a service. Like I I think that's I think that's the difference, right? You're you're buying the product, a commodity to me, it's a commoditized product through Manana no mas
We give you the hosting, we give you the hosting maintenance, you get you get all that with it, but but you're not getting, you know, a semi-custom web build. You're not getting a custom web build. You're not getting, I'm not setting up that CRM for you. You're getting access to a CRM tool, but I'm not setting it up for you. And I and that that's I think that's a whole different framework. So we have that. Like, and we've we have a few people on that, and it works. Like for people that are DIYers and they just want,
They just want an easier path to get to what people tell them they could build. We we provide the pathway, it's built and ready for them. but for the work that I'm seeking, I'm seeking enterprise level learning projects at, you know, close to six figures.
Toby Cryns (04:40)
Right. I guess like I'm not putting value on either of those methodologies or philosophies. Like I'm I'm saying I I the the the one where you have let's say a thousand small customers versus a hundred big customers or whatever, like
Kurt von Ahnen (04:55)
Yeah.
Toby Cryns (04:56)
it sounds like a fun business to run the same way ours sounds like fun.
Kurt von Ahnen (04:59)
That's
Toby Cryns (04:59)
And in the way that like we've we the grass is always greener, I go like,
lot of my problems go away in that scenario. Of course it brings other problems with it. Now you need you're getting a lot of churn. You need more different marketing engine, you know, all that stuff.
Kurt von Ahnen (05:13)
Yeah.
Toby Cryns (05:14)
And you gotta be okay with the complaints. You gotta be like, no, the product ends here. Sorry. and you're dealing with those types of problems. The reviews go you know, your vet reviews are gonna go down with that scenario, most likely. Like, but you know, it's like
Kurt von Ahnen (05:25)
So
let's let's let's be more blunt and honest. Let's let's pick up like topics we talked about on other shows where you and I have both said, yeah, hey, wouldn't that be great if we could delegate more and step back more from what we do? If you had a real business that was a consolidated, you know, product like that, you would I mean, if you literally had thousands of customers on some kind of like SaaS like, you know, maybe WordPress as a site service or whatever you built.
you would delegate, I would think, almost all of it. Like you would literally look at a spreadsheet, you would do so pay-per-click marketing, you know, analysis, and you would have a team handle the support calls, the support text, the support emails, the the and I think I'm gonna be even more blunt, because last week, last show we recorded, I said that I always manage support for the first week that we launch a new product. Personally, because I like to be in control of it.
I wouldn't care at all. If if I had five thousand people on some seventy five dollar a month plan and I had a support team, I wouldn't need to be part of that communication at all. If I lost ten or fifteen percent of those people, it it wouldn't be a big deal.
Toby Cryns (06:28)
Yeah, and I think that's part of what sounds appealing. It's like, you know, from a certain you know, like part of why I do what I do is I love to be deep with clients and solve the hard problems. But that gets tiring, honestly. And some days I'm like, I wish I was just the CEO looking at spreadsheets, making like calculated decisions that weren't based on relationships and you know, like that sort of thing. And there there's something really appealing of that. Now the flip side of of
Going really small or going with small customers and basically driving down your like there's a business model we just discussed and driving down your average customer value. There's a real business value there. You you go wide, you get a lot of low-paying customers. You you know, there's a great businesses run that way. Great businesses also run the other way, where every year they go, let's fire the lowest 20% of our clients because that's not who because we're spending too much time and energy on those lowest 20%. We need to spend it.
on the the top eighty percent
Kurt von Ahnen (07:25)
I did that for the first so 2008, nine, ten, I'll even say two thousand eleven. the end of the year, I did a review and I fired the bottom thirty-three the bur the bottom thirty percent of our clients.
And I didn't do it in a mean way. Like I had other I had other local talent, you know, and I would say, Hey, if I, you know, if I pass this client to you, are you gonna take good care of them? They'd be like, Yeah, sure, that'd be great, you know, because they're getting work. and I literally just said, Hey, Manana No mas is expanding. We're not in a position to maintain your account, you know, at the extent that you've become accustomed. I've got a couple of referrals for you, and they're awaiting your call, you know, and I would just transfer that business over. And when the first year I did it.
People thought I was crazy. Like people at the I worked at a I worked at one of those w a lot of businesses share the space, you know, co-working space. And I said, Yeah, this is what I'm gonna do. And they were like, you're crazy, you're a lunatic. And that year we doubled our business. And so the next year I did it, I doubled our revenue. I should say that. We doubled our revenue, not our business, doubled our revenue. the next year, 2009, I did the same thing. We doubled again. 2010, I did the same thing and it redoubled up again. Now.
The caveat there is that double of nothing is still almost nothing. You know, we were just starting out. We didn't have it, it wasn't like we had a ton of clients. Maybe we had 15 and I got rid of five. But getting rid of those five gave us the ability to go get seven or eight more that were higher value and easier to process. In my experience, I found the more that people pay, generally the easier it is to work with.
Which is counterintuitive, but it's the way that it's generally worked for me.
Toby Cryns (08:57)
Yeah, I think most people have that experience too.
Kurt von Ahnen (09:00)
Less meetings, more clarity, less expectations. They pay their bill, and you're like, Why is this easier? I'm making three times as much. Why is this easier?
Toby Cryns (09:08)
It kind of depends too on if you're like my experience has been, well, they can also escalate really quickly. and you kind of when when you grow deep with a a fewer clients, you're kind of now responsible. At least I feel very responsible to them and like, you know, from a service perspective and
I I I wonder too about the the firing the bottom 20%, because really that's like a common like business 80-20 thing. But like what we're really talking about isn't so one way to do it is look at your spreadsheet and go like, hey, these are the paying me the lease, let's not worry about them anymore or let them go. but but there's like a different way to look at that same spreadsheet. And it's it basically it adds one more like filter to that, and you go like, which clients are
Maybe it's like which clients are costing me the most time. You could start there, for example, and say which one's the most time? And then you cross-reference that with the amount they're paying and you say, Does this correlate in a bit in a way that we need to fire this client? And and by the way, I I get what you're saying, like firing, we don't mean like, hey, sh you're fired, like in a T V sense, but like, hey, that's
Kurt von Ahnen (10:12)
Yeah.
Toby Cryns (10:13)
just not a good fit anymore.
Kurt von Ahnen (10:14)
Well if we switch gears just just a hair, like same subject but different channel.
I sometimes people again, people say I'm kind of crazy because I've done some weird things here, especially recently. I've made some I've taken chances with decisions. One of those is I told you we had that fifteen hundred dollar startup and so many dollars per month, blah blah blah, right? So locally I had a client. I wanted to be nice. I didn't have a client, let's be clear. I was their client. So I was their client and I realized they didn't have a website. And I thought, well, that's that's stupid. and I had some free time, so I made them a website.
Boom, reserved a URL, made them a website, populated with pictures of them that I took as I was their customer at their place of business. and then I literally just said, hey, I wanted to give you a tip, but you're the owner, and I thought that might be kind of weird. I said, so I made you this website because you didn't have a website. here's your email address that goes with it. I'll take care of it for the first six months. And then after that, it's $79 a month if you want to keep it. If you don't want to keep it, that's fine.
Right. It's your website. You want to move it. You want to take it somewhere else. You want to host it somewhere else. It it's I don't care. I just want to do this for you to pay it forward. Well, now I've got a customer that, you know, on that recurring income. I think if we say $79 a month, we go, that's not enough money. But if you've got 20 people at $79 a month, well, now you've got some money coming in every month. And I think if you had a thousand people doing that, you would have a real sellable business. I think.
the recurring income is something that agencies need to focus on a little bit more than like those one and done home runs.
Toby Cryns (11:40)
Maybe as I've grown my business, because the recurring revenue is I haven't figured out how to really capitalize on it. But as I've grown my expenditures in the business, the recurring revenue is not as interesting. Like I haven't figured it out yet in a way that would make me prioritize it over the custom work, for example,
Kurt von Ahnen (11:59)
Yeah.
Toby Cryns (12:00)
custom one off work.
when I was smaller, when it was just me or me and one other person, I go, Yeah, that that was a huge smoother outer of stuff. But now I'm looking at it going, we need to sell another big project to pay next month's bills. Let's go get it, you know? but I do take your point. Like if I were if I were to buy an agency, would I buy the Mighty Mo, which does not have a ton of recurring revenue comparative to expenditures. would I prefer a smaller business with a more
Or let's just say like would I value the business based on the recurring revenue? You know, probably that would have a lot of value.
Kurt von Ahnen (12:34)
Yeah. We I have gone out of my way, I'll say in the last year, because I think that's the fair way to to analyze myself. I I'd say in the last year, I have I've gone out of my way to seek more recurring revenue situations than higher margin situations. And and people listening might go, that doesn't make sense, Kurt. Like
I would rather charge somebody five grand to build something and $150 a month to host it until they quit than to charge them $10,000 to build something. And you would say, well, that's $5,000 split up over how many months? Yeah, I look at the average lifetime of my client. Most of my clients have been with me five years or more. So I know they're going to stick around. So
And there's other services. Like when somebody is, when someone's on a recurring payment plan, that ice is already broken. And so you can go back to them and you can say, hey, it's about time we did a rewrite on that homepage. Or, hey, I was, you know, I was updating your plugins and I noticed XYZ. Or you know, we we we could freshen up this theme if you want. Like there's always something to sell an existing client. And I think if you've got recurring income already on the table, it's easier to make the upsell.
So I think when we're adding value, like so would somebody want to buy my agency? Well, based on my email lately, I think a lot of people want to buy it. I that that's a weird spam trend that's going on now. Everybody wants to buy my business. But realistically, I still don't think we're in a very sellable position. Like even with with the percentage of recurring income we have, like for what I would want to charge for it to walk away from it and give up the name and the ability, like, I still have some growth to do.
Toby Cryns (14:08)
Not even like for me, like when I think of what I would sell my business for, it it's not even what it's worth on the market to me. It's like what it's worth to me and my family right now, just from a you know, it's my job. Like, what
Kurt von Ahnen (14:20)
Yeah.
Toby Cryns (14:21)
would I sell this somewhat stable job for? And I go, they have to be a pretty good amount, like you know, because what I'm looking to make this another 20-year job, like this is hopefully my job for the next 20 years, it's so like.
That's not how other people are valuing it. They're saying what how much recurring revenue do you have? Da-da-da-da. You know, like what are your expenses? How what types of contracts do you have with your c clients and that sort of thing? And how critical are you to the business? All that. I but in terms of buying, there was a guy in town here who was selling his he had a web dev business, but he just spun off his hosting business and was trying to sell that. And there's like some conventional wisdom of like 3x revenue or something like that.
But I was looking at his asking price and going, I don't have the risk tolerance to buy your hosting business at 3x annual top line revenue. In my mind, I was like, I would pay today 1X your profit. That's an easy one X annual profit. I would pay that today. Maybe I would pay 1X annual revenue, but like there, you know, venture capitalists obviously look at things differently, but like I'm going.
That's what his business was worth to me. One th at least one third l of what he thought it was worth for a similar business, you know.
Kurt von Ahnen (15:30)
Well, a and we've both dabbled in the hosting side a little bit. Hosting's not an easy build. I mean, there can be money in hosting. I I love the recurring nature of hosting. I I mean I love that I love that side of it on the spreadsheet. But the competition is deep, man. Like I I could you know, they can go to WP Engine, they can go to CloudWays, they can go to XCloud, they can go they can go anywhere. And so
it it becomes, you know, like a commodity, right? So then what services are you offering? What what level of maintenance are you offering with your hosting and and how do you how do you scale that? And a lot of hosting companies are really just a white labeled example of an XCloud account or something. And so it's it's it's very, very difficult to think of buying a hosting company and how you would scale it going forward.
Toby Cryns (16:14)
Well, and I think it's easy you know, like I think it's like in our culture we look at these big examples like of brands that get purchased, but it's very different, I think, when you buy like my friend's company. I'm going,
Kurt von Ahnen (16:26)
Yeah.
Toby Cryns (16:26)
they've probably signed up because of him, not because of their brand and you know, the brand's probably
Kurt von Ahnen (16:31)
Yeah.
Toby Cryns (16:32)
not very strong, but he was there and like so let's say I bought them at whatever he was asking. Let's just say I acquired it. I
I would expect to lose some percentage of those just because I'm there now. And like whereas
Kurt von Ahnen (16:44)
Yeah.
Toby Cryns (16:44)
if you bought like a GoDaddy, let's say, or some big company, doesn't have to be that big, but like some company where people are like, Yeah, I bought the brand, Green Geeks or something, you know, like they're like, I bought I went there 'cause it was super cheap and they're fine. And there's not like a person that like they're not gonna leave because someone bought the company. In fact, that I think that happened with a hundred hosting companies I was with where they got purchased and
I didn't leave 'cause they got purchased, I left 'cause the services started sucking. You know what I mean?
Kurt von Ahnen (17:12)
Yeah. Things start
locking up, slowing down, service
Toby Cryns (17:14)
Yeah. huh.
Kurt von Ahnen (17:16)
doesn't respond anymore. well that that takes us into a question. So whether it's whether it's your agency that you're gonna sell or an agency you're gonna buy or hosting companies you're making a decision on. I think it's interesting to talk about like leadership. Like how are these companies led? Who is leading? How are they leading?
I have been recently exposed to a new form of leadership through some studies here with the county. And I am I am finding it very, very challenging. but it makes me wonder: like, have d have we had leadership wrong the whole time? Like, so I'm a John Maxwell graduate from 2016.
So if we think about like leadership in the 40s, 50s, even the 60s, leadership was more like management, right? Just, you know, work harder, work faster, get stuff done, manage tasks. It wasn't like personal development. It was like just manage, manage the day, manage the hours, you know, keep the machines running.
Over like the seventies, into the eighties and nineties, that whole servant leadership thing started to take hold, right? Lead by example. If you know, but there was always this concept of if you go for a walk and no one's following you, you ain't leading, right? Like a leader means that someone's following you, you've got influence over somebody.
But now I'm in a program that's about adaptive leadership, adaptive challenges, adaptive leadership. And it comes from this position of like, everybody's the leader. Like sh and I'm like, well, if everybody's the leader, nobody's the leader. It's like in marketing. If you market to everybody, you haven't marketed anybody.
But I I I'm finding it very interesting.
Toby Cryns (18:49)
over the years in in particularly it becomes interesting when I've had employees, especially like recently, the last couple of years as I've grown my team. Like these like leadership methodologies are particularly applicable and interesting. And but when it was just me and one other guy or me and a bunch of contractors, it mattered a lot less, I think. but part of like growing a business, like once you start taking on
few employees, you can really like you know, you can have a real impact.
So like one thing I try to do is have fun with it first of all, like in the in the sense that like, hey, like I'm gonna read some books on leadership and like try to apply some of these principles and it's humans, so it's messy. I I think all these methodologies for everything, a a lot of them start with like, hey, how can I sell a million books? That's gonna be the title and of my book, and my methodology is gonna be challenging the status quo. And but if you like extract that back, like right now we're employing some
parts of EOS, which is like one of the philosophies of management. and it's been really helpful and interesting. And I don't know that I try to be a well, I should say like what my values are in terms of my leadership style, the ones that I try to emulate are like transparency, honesty, clear communication. And then
I try to give people, well, I I feel like part of me is like I need my people to step up and fill the gaps. And so from a leadership style perspective, I don't know where that fits, but I'm I'm always challenging my team, my teammates to be to answer the ask the questions and answer the questions. For example, today one of my teammates, I was expressing a problem about confidence in our systems. I was like, our sales guy doesn't
Fully understand the system and therefore he doesn't have full confidence that we can deliver on what he's selling. And so we need to get him to a point where of understanding where he can have confidence. And the person who was listening, I was saying, I said, could you like just repeat back in your own words what you heard? And they said, so we need like to better outline the tasks. And I was like, thank you for listening, but no, that's not it. And like,
The problem I like, we have to pull back the lens a bit. And I don't know what the answer is. It might include the task transparency, but it's it's something different than that. And and you have to like grasp the problem. And that I think for me, that's a challenge right now is like trying to get my teammates, trying to teach them and relinquish enough, whatever that means. Like I'm trying to get us, bring this ship over to where everybody starts to develop their own questions.
Kurt von Ahnen (21:20)
See now what you're describing sounds like more like a like an adaptive leadership example. Whereas in adaptive leadership, you you would go to like the team en masse everybody, and you would be like, Hey, let's let's do an investigation. Let's make some observations. Now, from those observations, what do we interpret?
So, you know, we we observe that we have this issue, we observe that we have this issue, we observe that we have this issue. So one and so the the whole thing that drives me a little bit baddie with this is so we say let's say something like people are getting to the checkout page, but they're not completing the checkout, right?
And so so so that's the observation. And so someone would say, well, one interpretation is that it takes the page too long to load and people don't want to wait that long. Another interpretation might be it doesn't have the right payment gateway options to make everybody happy. Another one might be the form asks for too many questions. They don't want to have to put in their address and what school they went to to buy this thing. And so there's so there's interpretations, and then you have to do
investigations to figure out which interpretations would hold water under scrutiny. And by the time you get through this whole elongated process, a lot of times what happens is nothing. Like, so so where I struggle with this leadership example is in the adaptive challenge leadership examples, they even tell us right up front, like, hey, we're gonna do a lot of investigating, we're gonna make a lot of observations, but
You're not required to come up with a solution within a set amount of time here, right? Because this is these problems are more nuanced, they're more difficult, it takes more thought, it's going to take a lot of time. Whereas if you go backwards and you look at like servant leadership, you know, John Maxwell, Tony Robbins, any of that kind of stuff, that's more like, here's where we are, here's where we want to go. What are the steps to get there? Make that shit happen. So,
Toby Cryns (23:08)
Yeah.
Kurt von Ahnen (23:09)
so in my mind.
And and they say that so the definition in in an adaptive mindset, they say that's that's a technical perspective. So you could have a technical perspective that is solutions oriented, or you could have an adaptive perspective which is more exploratory.
Toby Cryns (23:25)
So how will what which of the which l what's one example of a lesson you will apply in your business from the adaptive challenge? Like what's an example of a real challenge that you're gonna use that?
Kurt von Ahnen (23:36)
Well, you're asking me a really transparent question. So the thing I'm coming away from in this training is that there are more people than I than I could possibly have thought of that don't think the way that I think. That's what I've that's what I've come away from. From a communications perspective, there's a lot of people in this training cohort that I'm in right now that are they're in a hundred percent. They're in. They they love what we're doing. And and and I'm struggling with it. And so I'm realizing.
There's methods of communication that I use. There's methodologies that I employ that aren't always welcomed. And I need to be more open to different ways, different forms of communication. So I think my takeaway, like you're like, what would you apply to your business? Is I think it's helped me in ways that I will be able to communicate with clients maybe a little bit better and communicate with vendors a little bit better in some cases.
But at the end of that communication I still might scratch my head and wonder like, my gosh, how did they how did they how did they stay in business this long?
Toby Cryns (24:31)
Yeah.
think like in general like everyone who owns a business is
even if they tell you differently that and I don't I don't fully believe that you know where you're going and what your full purpose is in the business. you know, that's just and that's my experience being pushed on you. But I don't think that most business owners know where they're going, truly. Like like where they want to go even. They they say something, they have a bunch of meetings, they went
I don't know, I just like to be real with people. Like like we're all on this journey. I've been doing this my business has been around nineteen years. We have all five star reviews and my goal is another tw nineteen years and continue with five star reviews. Beyond that, I don't know. Like
Kurt von Ahnen (25:11)
So I had a client meeting this week and it was one of those refreshing client meetings where it was just easy conversation. She was an older lady and they have a training product and they have about 50 students a year. And so I'm doing quick math and I'm going, that's not a lot of revenue. There's not gonna be a lot that they're gonna want me to do with this project. Like I'm already, you know, I'm already thinking the end result, right? so then I just asked, I go, Hey, you know, where are you at in in your scaling or your or your growth or your goals? Like
Are you gonna need, you know, SEO or marketing help to to grow this thing? Or and she was like, We're getting older. We're just kinda coasting this thing out. And it and it was like, that's so refreshing that somebody's like, ps, whatever.
Toby Cryns (25:51)
Yeah.
I've run into that too. w like some you know, I'll be talking to someone, they'll this is a real true story actually, they called similar where I was like, Okay, let's talk about your website. They they call and you know, at the end of the day they're like, Yeah, we got three or four more years. We don't really need the money, we just kinda need the website for the validation and like
Kurt von Ahnen (26:09)
Yeah.
Toby Cryns (26:09)
it's it's that and I think old people a lot of times have a much better perspective on business stuff than us youngsters, you know.
Kurt von Ahnen (26:17)
Well, it makes me I don't want to say jealous. Jealous is the wrong word, right? But it's like you would pray for that kind of peace for yourself. Like,
Toby Cryns (26:24)
Yes.
Kurt von Ahnen (26:25)
like you would love to get like you just said, Hey, if I could keep this thing going for another nineteen years, you know, and blah blah. Like just just imagine, you know, like like you just get you're like, it's worked out pretty good. We're near the end. I don't need to I I don't need to burn myself out in the last
fiscal fiscal run, you know? We can just we can just let this thing coast through.
Toby Cryns (26:44)
Well, and part of what I wonder too is, you know, I've been doing it nineteen years. I could probably you know, the reality is that I probably could stress less. Not and and just assume just trust to Providence that I will make it another nineteen years. Like whatever that means. It doesn't mean I'm gonna be sitting on my laurels, but just don't worry about it, man. You'll figure it out.
Kurt von Ahnen (27:03)
Well, there's that that adage in sales is like customers can smell the desperation. I was a car salesman for a while when I was younger. And when I w when I was leading the leaderboard, it was easier to keep leading the leaderboard. Like when I was the number one salesman and I had, you know, 15 cars moved and it was the eighteenth of the month, and you know, everybody was like, dude, how do you keep getting these ups? And like, I don't know, they just fall out of the air. And they were. It was like people were just
They were like gravitated towards it. Like they would come in, look at a car, and you'd be like, I can sell you that car. And they're like, Great, I'll buy the car. Boom. Like, easy. Then you have a slow month and you're looking at your bills and you're looking at your check and things aren't adding up right. And you're like, hey, what's gonna take to get you in this car today? And they're like, you're desperate. You stink. I think we're gonna go look around. And it's but it it's it's not necessarily a specific thing that you that you do, right? It's it's not necessarily a
But it's they sense it and and I think it's the same I think it's the same with with business. I have been more relaxed since moving to Kansas and getting away from the California economy. And I think it's I think it's really come through in my client relations.
Toby Cryns (28:11)
There's something to be said about where you live. like I'm in the city and it's it's a really great city. It's a mid-sized city in the country, you know, and not so not crazy big or anything, but there's something probably about living here, and maybe it has to do with the economics, that there's more economic pressure just to live
Kurt von Ahnen (28:29)
Yeah.
Toby Cryns (28:29)
here, just cause it costs more. But you know, I talked to like family in the
the country the countryside out here and they don't care at all, you know.
Kurt von Ahnen (28:40)
Yep, tomorrow's another day, bruh.
Toby Cryns (28:42)
Yeah.
Kurt von Ahnen (28:43)
I I still believe in getting it done today and meeting deadlines and and honoring people's budgets and and all those things. All those all those things that we formed our business with still exist. but that sense of urgency, like gotta close every sale, gotta get every lead. When we lived in California, I couldn't say no to a single offer to do work. Like I had to say yes to everything. and then when we moved, I got to be a little more selective and we were able to pick.
you know, better clients to work with. And now we've got a really nice portfolio of people that we work with. I actually enjoy the the Zoom calls and the the problem solving we do.
Toby Cryns (29:16)
Yeah.
Thinking
about that patience that we're talking about, that just having faith and patience and that things are gonna be okay. one thing that's very different today, that happened today that would have been very different a couple of years ago probably. And it I hope it is about me maturing as a leader. And that's had a call with my sales guy today. And it's the second week in a row we've talked about this, but we're making progress. But the gist of it was
When can we expect to have Q four a plan for Q four?
Kurt von Ahnen (29:46)
Yeah.
Toby Cryns (29:47)
And my only like thought is like, let's get it in time so that we can implement it for Q four. Whereas before I might have been like, We need it today, let's review it, let's, you know, figure out the budgets. And I'm kind of just putting my faith in him and being like, you know, you have you're carrying the eggs. Let's make it happen.
Kurt von Ahnen (30:03)
Well
well no pressure, but I wasn't it last show when you were like you s y he said you can make it easy, just delegate the whole thing to me and I'll take care of sales.
Toby Cryns (30:11)
Yeah, yeah, that's what he said and it was really nice. And I you know, I trust him obviously. but you know, who knows? That's
Kurt von Ahnen (30:20)
tha that's a great place to leave it. Who knows? Toby, how can people reach you?
Toby Cryns (30:23)
you can find me on the old LinkedIn, Toby Cryns My last name is C-R-Y-N S. You can also visit themightymo.com, T-H-E-M-I-G-H-T-Y-M-O.com,
where
Kurt von Ahnen (30:34)
Nice.
Toby Cryns (30:35)
we deliver amazing website design and WordPress security and WooCommerce and SEO. How about you, Kurt Where can we find you?
Kurt von Ahnen (30:45)
I'm on LinkedIn as well. I'm the only Kurt von Ahnen in there. Easy to find. Our agency is Manyana no mas And while we do other things, we do focus on enterprise learning projects. Folks, this has been us from the agency action show. Have yourselves a a wonderful week, and don't forget to like, share, and subscribe.