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Engaging conversations around navigating generational communication
Hi. Welcome to the Alastair Greener, generationally speaking podcast. Bridging the generation gap by debunking some myths, tackling stereotypes, and hopefully, giving you some practical tips on how you can build stronger intergenerational connections and relationships. I've got a series of fascinating guests who are gonna be coming on the show with me, bringing their own unique perspective. And our guest today, well, what a guest.
Alastair Greener:He's called Paul Carter. You will recognize him from BBC. He's, when it comes to tech, Paul is the man. He's the lead presenter on Click that you might have seen. So we are gonna be talking a lot about technology today.
Alastair Greener:He's also featured on World's Greatest Train Journeys, and, he's also on Tech Explorer. He's whizzing around the world all the time going to tech shows. In fact, we've we're catching him, I think, in between going to different ones in Vegas, Tokyo, and everywhere else. Also, what's really interesting about Paul and where we first met at a great charity called Reach. Paul is passionate about assistive and adaptive technologies because Paul was born without lower arms or legs, and we're gonna talk a little bit about that as well, and about how that environment has changed through the generations.
Alastair Greener:So first of all, Paul, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Paul Carter:Very much for having me.
Alastair Greener:We've got a lot to talk about. And the first thing really I wanna talk a little bit about you. First of all, what's your generation? And do you identify with the generation that you were born into?
Paul Carter:No. I probably don't. I think I've always I think I've always probably been, on on the, on the younger end of of of my of my scale. I mean, I I was born in, I was born in 1980. So I'm not even sure what generation that makes me.
Paul Carter:But, yeah. No. I've I've always
Alastair Greener:Well, you're actually a you're actually a cussper. You're a cussper between you're a cusper. There you go. You haven't heard of that one. A cusper is basically where you're born literally right on the edge between 2 generations.
Alastair Greener:So you're between gen x and millennial gen y. So you can choose which one you wanna be a part of. I guess
Paul Carter:it's millennial. I suppose so. They yeah. Although although, you know, the the millennials aren't aren't exactly non maligned, are they? So may maybe maybe I'll stick to being a customer.
Paul Carter:I quite enjoy that, then I can have the best of both worlds, can't I?
Alastair Greener:Well, I I think millennials have been overtaken by Gen zed if it comes to, where where people start making comments about them and things. It's it is quite interesting how people who are millennials don't actually think about they forget 12 years ago when they were the group coming into the workplace, how everyone was talking about them. But, of course, thing things have changed in your big world of tech, things have changed. But first of all, tell us a little bit about your your upbringing. And specifically, when we talk about limb difference, how that is was very different for you growing up versus maybe children of today?
Paul Carter:Yeah. I mean, it's it's interesting for me. I mean, you know, I've I've got my, my parents to thank quite a lot. So so as you say, I was born without, without lower arms or legs and, you know, it was it was the eighties, and and a lot of the trend then was to, you know, send disabled kids to to what we would call then special school. And, you know, my my parents, my mum in particular, kind of railed against that quite quite strongly.
Paul Carter:And, you know, and thanks to her, I I spent my entire school life, well, mostly in in mainstream education. I went to, I went to a school for disabled children till I was about 7 or 7 years old, and then got moved into into mainstream education. And and that really kind of opened a lot of doors for me, and I think it's probably made me the person I am today. But, you know, in terms of my relationship with technology, it meant that I was exposed to kind of, you know, a lot of assistive technology and stuff at a very early age. And and even stuff that you maybe wouldn't even consider sort of assistive technology, but my school were quite forward thinking, and that I was introduced to computers quite young, and I was giving typing less given typing lessons, I should say, very early.
Paul Carter:So, you know, I was sort of exposed to that side of technology very, very early. And I I think, again, that's probably, you know, set me in good stead for for the rest of my life, really.
Alastair Greener:And there's a couple of interesting things there because, obviously, one of my passions is to make environments more generationally inclusive. But the I do a bit of work in schools and what I see is is how much more inclusive schools are when it comes to ability, when it comes to all sorts of differences. And that's a massive difference from when you're at school. I can imagine you were probably the exception to the rule in those days.
Paul Carter:Yeah. I mean, I I was very lucky in that the school that I that I went to was, like I say, it was a main stream, comprehensive, but it had a, kind of I I don't know what you'd call it. I mean, a a unit, a department that was, you know, set up for, for pupils with with, you know, with extra with extra needs, with disabilities. And so, you know, we had things like support workers in class and things like that, but but that was absolutely a a a rarity. You know, not every school had that.
Paul Carter:I think it was probably the only school in in the town that I'm from, you know, that had that at at the time. So, you know, it's, you know, it's it's one of those things, isn't it? You you roll the lottery dice of life. It's like if I'd if I'd been born somewhere else, then maybe I I wouldn't have even have had that opportunity open to me. So, yeah.
Paul Carter:But I but I do think that's kind of it's kind of shaped a lot of, a lot of what I've gone on to do since, I think.
Alastair Greener:One of the things which is I think is really interesting is people often look at younger generations and the word resilience comes up a huge amount. And one of the things we were talking about before we we recorded this was that, you know, my experience of going into schools and, working with the charity Reach, which is a a phenomenal charity for children and adults born with upper limb differences. And one of the things that I see is the level of resilience amongst, those youngsters in in particular. Is that something that that you think has helped you
Paul Carter:in your life? A 1000000%. I mean, you know, I I always say to to everyone, you know, disabled people, we are inherent born problem solvers. And I and I think, you know, that that does lead itself to a to a sense of resilience because, you know, I don't wanna sort of over labor the point, but, you know, you face you face kind of challenges every day. I mean, sometimes, most of the time, they're very, very, very minor things.
Paul Carter:You know, how do I open this jar? Or how do I reach that thing off the shelf in the supermarket or whatever? So, So, you know, you you I think you do sort of inherently develop that that sort of sense of resilience. And, Yeah. I I think that that's kind of massively that's kind of massively played into it.
Paul Carter:But, you know, I I don't know how much of that is a is a is a generational thing, or whether or whether how much of that is a personal thing. It's always kind of really hard to identify those sort of traits precisely. But, you know, I I I I do think sort of my my impairment and my life experiences have have, sort of contributed to that resilience a 100%. Yeah.
Alastair Greener:Just before we go on to the technology technology side, because it's a very exciting time, we've got Gen Beta being born in 2025. Technology is evolving at a at just a phenomenal rate. So given that, just before we get to that, I just wanna talk a little bit about the generational differences for people, you know, that we get to see at the reach weekends and and so on. What differences are you seeing between younger children with, with with limb differences versus those who are older who were born in a different generation?
Paul Carter:Social media is probably a really huge thing. I mean, I know it's obviously a huge thing for for all younger people, you know, regardless of whether they're disabled or not. But I think where it's been really interesting is exposure. Because, you know, when I was growing up, you didn't really apart from the people that you were, you know, you were physically around, you never saw other people like like you. I never saw anyone like me on television.
Paul Carter:I mean, we didn't have the Internet when I was younger, but, you know, you we didn't see anyone else, doing anything. Whereas whereas, I think kids today, you know, with with the influencer generation and social media, you can you can see people like you, and you can see people that are out there having, you know, successful careers or or doing, you know, really amazing stuff. And and I think that's probably one of the biggest differences I can imagine that that, you know, didn't exist when when I was younger.
Alastair Greener:Well, certainly, you know, your work with the BBC, the you know, what you're doing is something that probably wouldn't have happened, you know, 10, 20, certainly not 30, 40 years ago. So, you know, that's that's brilliant. And and actually talking about the the tech side said here in a in a fairly feeble segue, but go getting to that, you you go to all these tech shows, you see lots of things. I know you're particularly interested in in areas of ability. But how do you keep up with all of that?
Alastair Greener:And then also, what about older people that, you know, struggle with technologies is and it's changing all the time. Yeah.
Paul Carter:I mean, well, I mean, 2 two interesting questions there. I mean, how how do I keep up with it all? I mean, I guess the answer is I don't. And, you know, even even I don't. It's, it's tough because it's, you know, it's part of why I think the tech beat is is is the best one to work on because you're just deluged with with new stuff every single day, you know, quite literally.
Paul Carter:It's it's it's hard to keep track. But I mean, I think, you know, if I was to sort of give any any advice in terms of, you know, how how perhaps people of a different generation keep keep across it. It's it's just being aware of it's it's having a filter, really, and just being aware of what's actually gonna be impacting on on your life, you know, in in particular, your your day to day experiences. Because, you know, as as I'm sure we're all aware that the the the tech industry as a whole is is a hype machine. And you you hear lots of lots of hyperbole about lots of things, about what's going to change the world, when in reality, you know, a lot of it won't.
Paul Carter:Or if it does, it will happen in 10, 20, 30 years time. So I would say, you know, maybe just sort of have a slightly critical eye and cut through the hype and see what what's actually coming, you know, today, tomorrow, next week, next month. That's that's probably a way to stop you from going a little bit crazy about it all, I'd say.
Alastair Greener:Do you probably remember a TV show, Tomorrow's World. And I I always remember the one with the, and and for younger listeners and viewers, you'll probably have to go and back and watch this on YouTube or something. But watch the one where do you remember with the CD where they covered it with jam and said it'll still play, it'll be marvelous. And it still took us quite some time before we got CDs. There does seem to be this lag between what we hear about and then before it becomes mainstream.
Paul Carter:Yes. Absolutely. And I and I think that's really, that's that's really key to sort of, you know, I think if you if you were to go out and and and read all of the tech publications today, you'd you'd think we were living in sort of some episode of The Jetsons next week. And and as you say, it's, it's not really like that. I just realized I'm really showing my age by referencing the Jetsons.
Paul Carter:But, but, yeah, you know, it's
Alastair Greener:That's okay. You're a cusser. You're allowed to do that.
Paul Carter:You know, where where we are today is, in some respects, a huge a huge gulf away from where we were 20 years ago. But at the same time, you know, if you ask people 20 years ago where they where they thought we'd be today, they'd probably think it would all be flying cars and, you know, food coming out of machines and stuff. And and we're not we're not really there yet. So I think I think that, you know, as you say, that the the the pace at which it trickles down to, to ordinary folk like us is is probably slower than we'll have to believe. Yeah.
Alastair Greener:Well, I think you probably get access to it earlier than others. But I do remember the the anniversary of Back to the Future when they did 2015, and what actually came true and what didn't. And it was quite interesting what had and what hadn't. And the one thing that they had thought about was mobile phones. They've thought about all sorts of other things, but, but not that.
Alastair Greener:I wanna get to Gen Beta because a lot of people listening might think, well, what's that got to do with me in the workplace, you know, Gen Beta. Well, of course, they will be coming into the workplace in 20 years time. Meanwhile, you've got Gen Alpha who are now sort of 13. They're gonna be coming into the workplace in literally just 5 years or more time. What are the sort of things that you think, and this is really putting you on the spot, but as a as a tech expert who understands the, you know, you've seen the impact of social media and tech on on youngsters.
Alastair Greener:What are the kind of things that you think we might be looking at in 5, 10, 15, maybe even 20 years time, if you dare be that brave? I'm gonna
Paul Carter:say you you are putting me on the spot. I'll get my I'll get my crystal ball out. I I I think, you know, and and this this does have an impact on if we're talking about about the workplace, I I think the biggest area we are gonna see tech have an impact on stuff is is automation. And I don't I don't necessarily mean in, you know, in kind of industry and and and that kind of automation. I I think the autumn automation of things that we we currently have people to do.
Paul Carter:You know? We're we're seeing the the sort of explosion, the early explosion of of AI at the moment. And I and I think that the the problem with that is that we've we've got we've got a phenomenal solution, but we've not yet found a problem for it for it to solve. And I and I think that the the the the the thing that's gonna really crack that is is going to be, you know, do this task for me, and it will and it will do it. You know?
Paul Carter:I mean, I'm seeing bits of it in, as you mentioned at the top, I travel to, Japan quite a lot, and a lot of the hotels in Japan now have robots working in them. If you want water or towels sent to your room, you you press a button in your in your room, and then next thing you know, there's a, you know, ring at the door, and you open it, and there's a little robot there, and you open the lid and take the stuff out, and it trundles back to the lift, and it calls itself the thing in the left, and it goes back down again. You know, that's a really kind of almost a little sort of fun example. But I think, you know, going forward, those those sorts of tasks are going to be automated a lot more, which is going to have, you know, big implications for for the workplace, I think. So that kind of sort of combination of of AI, robotics, and automation is probably, where I think we we genuinely are going to see a generational change in in kind of how we live our lives.
Alastair Greener:Do you believe in the adage that, I heard about that the today's generation, today's school children, so probably Gen Alpha, that they will probably have 5 careers in their life, but 3 of them haven't been invented yet because of technology. Would would you be an advocate of that kind of state?
Paul Carter:I I certainly don't, I certainly don't don't disagree with it. I think that's that's absolutely true. And, you know, without without getting too sort of sociopolitical history about it, you know, I think what we're gonna see now in effect is is in the next sort of 20 or 30 years, maybe maybe longer, is, you know, equivalent to what we had in kind of the industrial revolution really, where, you you know, it it is going to be different. And and a lot of what we would consider traditional types of jobs might phase out. They might change.
Paul Carter:But but as you say, there are going to be a whole swathe of new ones that we don't even know about yet that are going to to come along, come around come around the corner. You know, your your average sort of, you know, Victorian surf didn't didn't know that there was gonna be such a thing as software engineers, you know. So I mean, I think that that kind of that kind of change, I think, is something that that that we're going to see a lot of. Yeah. So I think that's absolutely true.
Paul Carter:Yeah.
Alastair Greener:Well, I come I come from a farming background as you know. And, you know, when I look at a tractor today compared to the old bangers that we had on our farms back in the seventies, it was I mean, I wouldn't even know what to do. We wouldn't even know how to turn it on, but, that's a whole whole different thing. Let's talk about the the workplace and and, you know, let's let's share a few gems and tips and things about how people can help. One of the things that we hear a lot about is reverse mentoring or what is now more appropriately called mutual mentoring.
Alastair Greener:And when it comes to tech, that's something that can be really beneficial. You know, what have you seen in that area? Yeah.
Paul Carter:I think it's interesting. I mean, I've, I've I've done some, reverse mentoring more generally. Not not about, not about technology specifically, but I think, you know, I think I think where it's useful is just, you know, with a lot of this stuff, it's just sort of conquering the the the fear of the unknown and showing that it's, you know think if you're coming to technology new or a specific type of technology, it's it's perfectly natural and human to think that there's going to be this extraordinary learning curve involved and and to almost sort of think about that time to to to commit to even learning that. And and and then second to that, you know, even if I do, what are the benefits of it to me? So I think maybe having that experience of someone, you know, being able to sort of introduce you to those kind of things and and and eliminate a little bit of those preconceptions, I think, is probably something that's really quite valuable.
Paul Carter:Yeah.
Alastair Greener:And if one of the things I think is always interesting is that every generation can learn from each other. The young can learn from the old. The old can learn from the from the young. What let let's just play a little bit of a a a a game here where give us one thing that you think the young could really benefit from listening to the old, and then the old could benefit from listening to the young. That's putting you on the spot.
Alastair Greener:Well, I
Paul Carter:think, well, I think listening is a is a is a key point. You know, you you use that word there. I'm not I'm not sure young people listen enough these days. So I think I think that was, I think that's important. I think one thing I I would say that I I do slightly worry that we we slightly lose on on the younger generation slightly with the advent of AI and something that I think, you know, might might actually accelerate as as things like chat GPT and things become more commonplace.
Paul Carter:Is is that ability of critical thinking. And, you know, I I I'm in a strange position with AI because, you know, I'm a tech evangelist. I love I love technology, but I am also slightly cautious, particularly around things like, like generative AI because I'm very much of a of a mindset and a generation that I don't trust AI to write anything for me because I would then want to completely read it word for word afterwards to make sure it's said what I wanted it to say. Whereas I think you've got a whole generation of people coming that are that are growing up with AI that are just gonna say, oh, you know, write me an email to my boss that sounds professional. And and off it goes.
Paul Carter:And and, you know, what I think we're losing that sense of of kind of critical thinking and and and sort of self analysis a little bit, which I I think maybe older generations still hold quite dearly. So I'd I'd say if, you know, if we're if we're looking at it in in that direction, that's probably the thing I'm I'm I'm most interested in at the moment. I don't know if that answers your question. Sorry. You've been
Alastair Greener:yeah. No. That's great. No. No.
Alastair Greener:I mean, this is an interview. It's it's more of a chat, but it's it's just interesting to hear the different perspectives because we tend to be quite siloed in our thinking sometimes. We see we see things through our own lens and we don't look beyond and and think. And, you know, we get to a point where we think we know it's all because we're older and then young people it was ever so, wasn't it, that young people always knew best. They always had all the answers.
Alastair Greener:We were exactly the same when we were that age. I mean, in that respect, I guess nothing really changes.
Paul Carter:Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I I thought I ruled the world when I was 15. You know, you you think, you know, everything, don't you? And that's that's I don't think that's that's ever gonna change.
Paul Carter:I mean, but I think what what has changed slightly is that, you know, when I was when I was 15, you know, the Internet was only just, you know, a couple a couple of years old. You know, kids kids today, you know, young younger people have have the all of the information they they could ever wish to have at their fingertips. And and, you know, and and I think what's what's interesting is is not just having that information, but new ways of of accessing it and and deploying that information, you know, which is which is both, I think, really exciting and fascinating and and scary at the at the same time. But, yeah, you know, I think I think we can all learn from each other, and I think it's really, really important to keep having those those conversations and to have those those bridges and those and those connections, I think, is massively important. Because I don't I don't think you can necessarily war one generation off from another.
Paul Carter:You know, you described me as a as a cusper. And, like, you you know, I know I was joking when I say I can sort of take take the best parts of both. But I I think that's hugely important that we don't just put ourselves in one box and say, well, this is this is my lived experience, and and that's the only thing I'm I'm interested in, learning from or contributing to.
Alastair Greener:And and also as listeners and viewers will be fed up hearing from me, you know, we're framed by our generation not defined by it. You know, so therefore, it it's not just it's not as as linear, as it as it might seem. One of the things that I'm I'm interested in as well is is bigger organizations. Because smaller organizations is sometimes easier to keep in touch with people, build those connections, build those relationships, because there aren't actually gonna be that many people from different generations. You kinda have to all get together.
Alastair Greener:You're working at the BBC and without giving any way any corporate secrets, and I'm gonna be positive and say, what are some of the things that they are doing right when it comes to intergenerational communication that maybe other people could learn from? What are you seeing in maybe that the way they work with you, the way they work with different generations that you think actually that's a really positive thing.
Paul Carter:Yeah. I mean, firstly, you know, like you say, with with with big organizations, it it it is difficult generally sort of sort of keeping in touch. But, you know, my organization are trying lots of new things at the moment. And I think particularly post pandemic, you know, with when you've got people working in different places and and working different working in a different way, I guess. You know?
Paul Carter:We we're not all in the office 9 to 5, Monday to Friday anymore. So I think lot lots of different ways. Organizing sessions for people to get together in person when you can is is, I think, still important. But, again, you know, understanding that not everyone is able to do that for a for a variety of reasons. I think, you know, we're doing, regular kind of video sessions.
Paul Carter:These I think they're calling them coffee and croissant meats once once a month, where you can even if you're not able to join in person, you can you can join remotely and buy a coffee and and and, you know, you can get reimbursed for the for the for the cost of whatever that cost you. So you can still keep in touch for, like, a social type gathering that's not, you know, that's not necessarily just talking about work. I think those kinds of things are very important. But I think also, you know, continuing kind of the tech theme that the the explosion since the pandemic of remote working technology. So, you know, things like Slack, Microsoft Teams, you know, Discord, all those all those kinds of things that are enabling people to get together, that you can set up little subgroups and and things like that.
Paul Carter:I think they're all very important as well, but I, you know, it's a hybrid. And I think people are still grappling with it. I think all organizations are still grappling with it, as to how you, you know, how you how you solve that problem of what used to be just, you know, once every 2 months, we all get together and, have a coffee and have a chat in a room when the world's changed. You know, how do we how do we do that? I think everyone's still grappling with that, but I think tech's got a big part of play in that.
Alastair Greener:It's really interesting you it it it's interesting you say that because, you know, one of the things that that that this is this misconception that that Gen Z don't wanna come into the office. They don't want to be there, where our research, that we did last year plus numerous other research studies have all come to the same conclusion. Actually, Gen Z do want to come into the office. Is that what you're seeing at the meet?
Paul Carter:Absolutely. I think, you know, that, particularly in the industry I work in, that's a, you know, a creative industry, you you create best when you're when you're with other people. But, you know, a whole part of the creative process is is sharing ideas and experiences and and and bouncing all that around. And that's so much harder to do, you know, over over a platform, if I can use that word. You know, that's not to say it's impossible, but it's it's not as, it's not as natural.
Paul Carter:So, yeah, I think absolutely people want people want to come back. I think people want to come back perhaps slightly more on their own terms. You know, I think I think that whole flexibility, I think, is is the is the key thing. I think people want flexibility. And and again, you know, that's an issue that lots
Alastair Greener:of people are happy
Paul Carter:to
Alastair Greener:speak. Gen zed are happy to speak up about it, where maybe previous generations weren't happy to speak up about it. And that might be like a
Paul Carter:key difference. I think that's totally right. Yeah. And, you know, and I'm seeing it with with lots of, with lots of younger generational people that I work with that are very, very bold to to to simply say, you know, I'm I'm not feeling well today. I'm not coming in, or I'm gonna be working from home tomorrow.
Paul Carter:And it it it's that sort of slight shift shift from not asking almost like not asking permission or or or being ashamed to ask for permission. It's almost just like, you know, this is this is what I need to to be at my best, productively. And and so that's what I'm going to do, and I think that's a very definite change. Yeah.
Alastair Greener:And we all have to get used to it because it probably isn't gonna change.
Paul Carter:Those are gears. I think, you know, if I can use a cliche, the genie's, I think, very much out of the bottle. It it
Alastair Greener:it is indeed. We've only got a couple more minutes. That that went usually as always very very fast. I really wanna just do a little bit of a recap of some of the things that you feel when it comes to technology. And and feel free to talk about ability as well.
Alastair Greener:That different generations can learn from each other so that people, you know, going away from listening to this podcast can think, ah, there's something that I I really need to probably think about a little bit more. Give us a couple of things that could you think generationally in your world could that we could all learn from?
Paul Carter:I think, you know, one of the particularly with social media. Right? I think there's become, you know, a lot of a lot of demonization of it in in in the media and and and in society more generally. And I think, understandably, for a lot of reasons, because, you know, there there are lots of faults and lots of problems with it. But I think we've what we've slightly lost, and I and I and I I I worry slightly that that kind of parents and and, you know, grandparents, are going to think that social media is entirely, kind of, evil and bad for you, and and all of these things.
Paul Carter:And I and I think, you know, I I have achieved so much in my life. Thank thanks to connections I've made and experience I've had purely through social media and, you know, meeting other people and and learning new things and and and discovering opportunities. So I really, really hope that we're able to to hold on to that. And that, you know, we realize that when it's used well and and used for good, I think, you know, social media is is is hugely beneficial in in in some senses with, you know, with with caveats and with guardrails and with all of those protections in place, but that we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater and just, you know, come down on it with an iron fist and say it's bad. And I don't want I don't want my children using it or I don't want younger people using it because because it has it has a lot to offer.
Paul Carter:So I think, that would probably be, the biggest thing for me. And then but also, you know, if if we're looking at it from the other way, I think, you know, we're we're we're of an age now where, like you say, I think that, you know, the younger people that are that are coming into the workplace now, they're probably the 1st generation where their parents did grow up with the Internet and did grow up with kind of what we would call modern technology and stuff. So I think, you know, maybe realizing that I'm I'm probably banging on a locked door here, but you don't actually know it all.
Alastair Greener:Well, you know what? I think that's a perfect ending to the podcast, actually. It's admitting none of us know all. And and the sooner we realize that, the better. But we can all learn from each other, and we can learn different things.
Alastair Greener:And and it's really interesting about, social media because you're absolutely right. Like everything, there's there's good and bad in everything. And it's and it's it's just a shame that sometimes the legal framework is somewhat behind the curve trying to catch up, with technology. And I think that's possibly a conversation for another day. You know, how how can we we do that more?
Alastair Greener:But, Paul, it's been great to have you on the podcast. Thanks so much indeed for joining us and to give us your unique perspective. Enjoy your next train journey wherever you go next and, all your jet setting around the world, looking at technology. And, I look forward to you coming to the next podcast on The Flying Saucer.
Paul Carter:So so do I. Thanks ever so much, Alastair.