Episode 220: Slow Fashion & Inclusivity with Sushmita of Ethical Fat Fashion

Amanda is joined by Sushmita, the person behind Ethical Fat Fashion, the "coolest fat positive fashion newsletter amplifying ethical size diverse brands.”   In this episode--recorded in a karaoke room in Tokyo--Amanda and Sushmita discuss the following:

• “Sustainable fashion” has an inclusivity problem. Meaning: it still focuses on thin, white, young, wealthier cis-gendered women. Why is that still the case, years into the sustainability movement in fashion?
• How can we change that? I always feel like I am part of a growing diverse community of primarily working class people, yet I still see many brands and organizations continuing to focus on the same thin/white/young/rich people. Why is it important for slow fashion to be a movement/community for everyone?
• Conversations about cost are particularly difficult because we know that the prices of ultra fast fashion are only possible because the clothes are low quality and someone suffered to make them.  Fast fashion has warped our sense of value and how much clothing should cost. How do we untangle that? And how is skipping fast fashion an issue of class solidarity?
• The societal expectation around how much clothing we should have has changed drastically over the years, especially during the fast fashion era. And so we think we need a lot of clothes that are inexpensive, rather than a lot less clothing at a higher price. Sushimita will share her thoughts on that and how we change our perception of value and the quantity of clothing we own.
• Also: Why we should shop from small brands, debunking the myth that there are no sustainable brands that make larger sizes, and so much more!

This episode gets started with a small business audio episode from Lisa of Top Stitch Mending. And Amanda wraps up the episode discussing how the recent election here in the United States has her thinking about the power of community and communication.

Give everyone a follow:
Sushmita: @ethicalfatfashion on every platform
Ethical Fat Fashion on Substack
@topstitchmending

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Clotheshorse is brought to you with support from the following sustainable small businesses:

The Pewter Thimble Is there a little bit of Italy in your soul? Are you an enthusiast of pre-loved decor and accessories? Bring vintage Italian style — and history — into your space with The Pewter Thimble (@thepewterthimble). We source useful and beautiful things, and mend them where needed. We also find gorgeous illustrations, and make them print-worthy. Tarot cards, tea towels and handpicked treasures, available to you from the comfort of your own home. Responsibly sourced from across Rome, lovingly renewed by fairly paid artists and artisans, with something for every budget. Discover more at thepewterthimble.com

St. Evens is an NYC-based vintage shop that is dedicated to bringing you those special pieces you’ll reach for again and again. More than just a store, St. Evens is dedicated to sharing the stories and history behind the garments. 10% of all sales are donated to a different charitable organization each month.  New vintage is released every Thursday at wearStEvens.com, with previews of new pieces and more brought to you on Instagram at @wear_st.evens.

Deco Denim is a startup based out of San Francisco, selling clothing and accessories that are sustainable, gender fluid, size inclusive and high quality--made to last for years to come. Deco Denim is trying to change the way you think about buying clothes. Founder Sarah Mattes wants to empower people to ask important questions like, “Where was this made? Was this garment made ethically? Is this fabric made of plastic? Can this garment be upcycled and if not, can it be recycled?” Signup at decodenim.com to receive $20 off your first purchase. They promise not to spam you and send out no more than 3 emails a month, with 2 of them surrounding education or a personal note from the Founder. Find them on Instagram as @deco.denim.

Vagabond Vintage DTLV is a vintage clothing, accessories & decor reselling business based in Downtown Las Vegas. Not only do we sell in Las Vegas, but we are also located throughout resale markets in San Francisco as well as at a curated boutique called Lux and Ivy located in Indianapolis, Indiana. Jessica, the founder & owner of Vagabond Vintage DTLV, recently opened the first IRL location located in the Arts District of Downtown Las Vegas on August 5th. The shop has a strong emphasis on 60s & 70s garments, single stitch tee shirts & dreamy loungewear. Follow them on instagram, @vagabondvintage.dtlv and keep an eye out for their website coming fall of 2022.

Country Feedback is a mom & pop record shop in Tarboro, North Carolina. They specialize in used rock, country, and soul and offer affordable vintage clothing and housewares. Do you have used records you want to sell? Country Feedback wants to buy them! Find us on Instagram @countryfeedbackvintageandvinyl or head downeast and visit our brick and mortar. All are welcome at this inclusive and family-friendly record shop in the country!

Located in Whistler, Canada, Velvet Underground is a "velvet jungle" full of vintage and second-hand clothes, plants, a vegan cafe and lots of rad products from other small sustainable businesses. Our mission is to create a brand and community dedicated to promoting self-expression, as well as educating and inspiring a more sustainable and conscious lifestyle both for the people and the planet.

Find us on Instagram @shop_velvetunderground or online at www.shopvelvetunderground.com

Selina Sanders, a social impact brand that specializes in up-cycled clothing, using only reclaimed, vintage or thrifted materials: from tea towels, linens, blankets and quilts.  Sustainably crafted in Los Angeles, each piece is designed to last in one's closet for generations to come.  Maximum Style; Minimal Carbon Footprint.

Salt Hats:  purveyors of truly sustainable hats. Hand blocked, sewn and embellished in Detroit, Michigan.

Republica Unicornia Yarns: Hand-Dyed Yarn and notions for the color-obsessed. Made with love and some swearing in fabulous Atlanta, Georgia by Head Yarn Wench Kathleen. Get ready for rainbows with a side of Giving A Damn! Republica Unicornia is all about making your own magic using small-batch, responsibly sourced, hand-dyed yarns and thoughtfully made notions. Slow fashion all the way down and discover the joy of creating your very own beautiful hand knit, crocheted, or woven pieces. Find us on Instagram @republica_unicornia_yarns and at www.republicaunicornia.com.

Cute Little Ruin is an online shop dedicated to providing quality vintage and secondhand clothing, vinyl, and home items in a wide range of styles and price points.  If it’s ethical and legal, we try to find a new home for it!  Vintage style with progressive values.  Find us on Instagram at @CuteLittleRuin.

Thumbprint is Detroit's only fair trade marketplace, located in the historic Eastern Market.  Our small business specializes in products handmade by empowered women in South Africa making a living wage creating things they love like hand painted candles and ceramics! We also carry a curated assortment of  sustainable/natural locally made goods. Thumbprint is a great gift destination for both the special people in your life and for yourself! Browse our online store at thumbprintdetroit.com and find us on instagram @thumbprintdetroit.

Picnicwear:  a slow fashion brand, ethically made by hand from vintage and deadstock materials - most notably, vintage towels! Founder, Dani, has worked in the industry as a fashion designer for over 10 years, but started Picnicwear in response to her dissatisfaction with the industry's shortcomings. Picnicwear recently moved to rural North Carolina where all their clothing and accessories are now designed and cut, but the majority of their sewing is done by skilled garment workers in NYC. Their customers take comfort in knowing that all their sewists are paid well above NYC minimum wage. Picnicwear offers minimal waste and maximum authenticity: Future Vintage over future garbage.

Shift Clothing, out of beautiful Astoria, Oregon, with a focus on natural fibers, simple hardworking designs, and putting fat people first.  Discover more at shiftwheeler.com

Creators & Guests

Host

Amanda Lee McCarty

What is Clotheshorse with Amanda Lee McCarty?

Host Amanda Lee McCarty (she/they) decodes and demystifies the fashion and retail industries, and takes on topics like consumerism, workers rights, personal style, and why fashion is a case study in capitalism gone awry.
Your money is as powerful as your vote!
"If you wear clothes, you need to listen to Clotheshorse." --Elise
"If you are human and live in the world, you need to listen to Clotheshorse." --Individually Wrapped

The idea of community, information, and how we can and should use our platforms has been on my mind constantly since the election. I have had a lot of time to process and think about it, I’m doing more reading about community organizing, and I will certainly be speaking about this more next year.

To be completely honest, I have a lot of anger.

So many people showed us that human rights don’t matter as long as eggs and gas are cheap.
So many people showed us that they would rather vote for a fascist than a woman.

So many people said “my vote doesn’t matter, so I’ll stay home.”

So many people heard “both sides are the same,” and thought, “so I just won’t vote.”

Strangely, I’m less angry at the people who voted for Trump, because they were probably always going to do that. I’m more angry at the people who didn’t vote at all. And I’m extra angry at the people who used their platform to discourage others from voting (or at the very least, create confusion about who should get our votes).

For months leading up to the election, I was seething with frustration as I saw various leaders within the slow fashion and environmental justice movements come out to say that “both sides are the same” and that it was a waste of time to vote for either candidate because they didn’t earn our votes.

These were people who I respect, who you respect. Smart, awesome people. And their opinions have power in our own decision making processes. And I know that, because I saw others sharing their posts and repeating their statements.

One that comes top of mind for me is that instagram account, @so.informed, run by a white woman named Jess Natale, a person who will be largely unaffected by a Trump presidency. For years, she has been sharing information about current events, with a particular focus on what’s happening in Gaza since 2023. And in October, specifically October 28 I believe, she shared a post that essentially discouraged people from voting for Harris, and steered people toward either voting for Trump, voting for Jill Stein, Or not voting at all? I’m not sure, but the argument was that voting for Harris meant being a genocide apologist, as if a compassionate person couldn’t both do everything they could to try to end the genocide while also conceding that a vote for Harris would protect immigrants, trans people, women, and many other vulnerable people. That perhaps a vote for Harris was the equivalent of putting the oxygen mask on yourself first so that you could help others. If we’re not actively fighting to survive and protect our immediate neighbors here in the United States, then we have more resources to actively fight to protect the people experiencing genocide in Gaza, Sudan, Congo, and the Ugyhur Muslims of China.

That account has more than 3 million followers. Not only does that kind of information create confusion amongst that 3 million people, it spreads as those followers share those posts or have IRL conversations.

And this wasn’t the only account doing this. Another person, with a few hundred thousand followers, who is incredibly talented, super smart, highly respected, and works in the sustainable fashion space was sharing similar arguments, particularly on Threads. And when someone would say “okay, but scientists say that Harris will be better for the climate and here’s why” or whatever, she would respond with nastiness or bullying. That person has actually been a guest on this podcast and I pulled her episodes before the election because it no longer felt like the right fit.

Her online community is far more engaged than @so.informed, so I ‘m sure they listened to her even more…and they too felt confused about voting, which I’m sure they discussed online. I saw friends of Dustin sharing these kinds of ideas. I saw my own friends doing the same. And even on Election Day, I almost lost my shit on a CANADIAN on Threads who posted “Let's just be perfectly clear. All the liberal white women voting for and endorsing Harris are just saying they only care about themselves and that everyone else's rights and freedoms don't matter. That about sum it up?”

I actually responded to that person saying, “Okay, I’ll bite, as a white person AFAB: there will probably never be a presidential candidate with values as progressive as mine, but I also accept that I am on the far left and this is a democracy with many other opinions. So I vote strategically. Why did I vote for Kamala? Because even more people will suffer under a Trump administration: trans people face imprisonment, migrants face deportation, many people will lose their healthcare and die of preventable diseases (myself included)…The list goes on: same sex marriage will likely be overturned, people with uteruses will lose control of their bodies, many people will lose their jobs under Trump’s economic policy (the poorest will suffer the most), he’s planning to dissolve the department of education and every agency working on climate change, and oh yeah, the genocide in Gaza is going to get a lot worse. So yeah, that’s why I voted for Kamala. Not because I’m selfish, but because I care about people and our planet.”

Here’s the thing…I should have been saying that a long time ago, via Clotheshorse and my own personal relationships. Because you know what? A lot of people didn’t vote. Period. Tens of millions of people did not vote. And many of them cared about the same stuff as me, definitely cared about what is happening in Gaza, but felt that there was no one they wanted to vote for. That both sides were the same or it didn’t really matter because the whole world was/is going to shit.

And you know what else? Beware of anyone who isn’t offering you suggestions for action. Who is saying “don’t vote this way,” but then isn’t giving you direction about how to cast your vote. If you notice, just about every Clotheshorse instagram post shares information, but then ends with “here’s what you can do.” Because information without action…well, it just creates confusion and anger. It doesn’t lead to change.

It felt odd to me that the people who I valued as the “adults in the room,” these people who are no doubt smarter, more interesting, more influential in this world, were taking an “everything is shit” stance rather than a more pragmatic approach: the reality that voting is a strategic decision, not a romance. Not a marriage. Not a declaration of best friends forever, a blood vow of loyalty.
In a two party system, you vote for the person whose values are closest to yours and you hope that over time (with work and persistence), their policies shift your way.

And after the election, the work doesn’t end. You stay active, organizing within the community, calling/emailing elected representatives, protesting, etc.

Voting isn’t the solution, it’s just step one. And maybe as part of that work, you begin to organize a true third option that does reflect your values. But it takes work and time, and that work happens all year, every year…not just during presidential election years.

The work we are doing here…it’s not just voting, it’s not just buying less stuff or mending or learning how to sew or shopping secondhand…it’s all of this and more. And it’s doing what we can 365 days a year. It’s a whole list of things we do that over time (when we are doing them all together) make this world better.

As I said, I’ve been frustrated about this for months. But as a person with often debilitating anxiety, I stayed quiet. I was afraid of dealing with internet outrage, trolls in the comment section, or all-caps DMs. I just didn’t think I had the mental health to manage that. Shit was getting really ugly online and I just didn’t want to deal with it. Also, my thinking was, if that person who hundreds of thousands or millions of people follow and respect is saying this thing, who am I to say something otherwise?

So I stayed quiet and just hoped that everything would be okay, rather than speaking up with my thoughts about voting, activism, and how we all play an important role in the world around us.

Now in retrospect, I feel like a coward. I’m angry at myself.

From 2016-2020 people suffered who didn’t need to suffer. People died who should still be alive. And everyone—myself included—was frightened and angry every single day. We fought nonstop just to keep people kinda okay and safe. Dustin and I saw so many friends die totally preventable deaths of despair: overdoses and suicides. I reached a point in 2017 where I fantasized about ending my own life because I couldn’t handle how fucked up and ugly the world was showing itself to be. And beyond that, we were on the brink of bankruptcy from medical bills. It was just so fucking hard to exist, much less work toward something better.

Why wouldn’t I do everything in my power to prevent that from happening again? I am a nobody in the grand scheme of things, a tiny grain of sand in the internet desert, but that doesn’t mean I should stay silent. I always tell you to lead by example within your own sphere of influence. So yeah, I’m angry at myself.

If I had spoken up, would the outcome be different? Probably not. But at least I could say that I was brave. I can’t say that now.

I have reached that point in my life where I am largely invisible as I move through my days.

I’m no longer young. I’m not pretty, rich, or famous. And I’m not exuding sexy pheromones. So most people don’t see me.

Seriously, I noticed this phenomenon in Japan, where white men literally walked into me as if I weren’t there. As if I were a ghost. And yeah, that pisses me off to no end. Which is why I have to ask myself, “Why do I let myself be invisible about things that matter?”

Because I’m still here. And so are you.

I have spent my life trying to be as small and quiet as possible because that’s what the world told me I was supposed to do. Starve myself. Stay quiet. Be nice and don’t upset anyone. Please everyone. And hope that would keep me safe.

@#$% THAT.

It’s time to be as loud and rowdy and huge as possible. I’m here to take up some space and make a ruckus.

I’m here to invite you to do the same with me.

Beyond election day, beyond politics, beyond everything…it’s time to be LOUD. PERSISTENT. BRAVE.

Do you feel invisible? Unheard? Scared? Angry?

Let’s work together to ensure that better things really do happen…for us, for the people around us, for the people we have never met and might never meet, and the people of future generations.

WE ARE STILL HERE. We’re going to do some serious shit in 2025. I can’t wait to watch it all happen.