A Mom's Story of Breaking Up with Chardonnay w/ Deb Podlogar

Today, we're joined by the well-known influencer Deb Podlogar, aka Mocktail Mom. Deb shares her personal journey of breaking up with Chardonnay, along with her passion for making delicious mocktails. Whether you're curious about moderation or just want to be inspired by Deb's story, this episode is packed with insights and enthusiasm!

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Creators & Guests

Host

Mike Hardenbrook

#1 best-selling author of "No Willpower Required," neuroscience enthusiast, and habit change expert.

What is Journey to the Sunnyside?

"Journey to the Sunnyside" is your guide to mindful living, focusing on health, wellness, and personal growth. Each episode offers insights into topics such as mindful drinking's impact on lifestyle, the science behind habit change, and more. Through conversations with experts and personal stories, the podcast provides listeners with practical tips and knowledge for a more balanced life.

Hosted by Mike Hardenbrook, #1 best-selling author, neuroscience enthusiast, and habit change expert. This podcast is brought to you by Sunnyside, the #1 alcohol moderation platform. If you could benefit from drinking a bit less, head over to sunnyside.co to get a free 15-day trial.

The views expressed in our podcast episodes do not necessarily represent those of Sunnyside. We're determined to bring diverse views of health and wellness to our audience. If you are concerned with your drinking, please seek the advice of a medical professional. Sunnyside, this podcast, and its guests are not necessarily medical professionals and the content shouldn't be viewed as medical advice. In addition, we never condone drinking in any amount.

Mike: 00:00

Welcome to Journey to the Sunny Side, a podcast where we have thoughtful conversations to explore the science of habits, uncover the secrets to mindful living, and, of course, inspire your own mindful drinking journey. This podcast is brought to you by Sunny Side, the number one alcohol moderation platform. And if you could benefit from drinking a bit less, head on over to sunnyside.co to get a free 15 day trial. I'm your host, Mike Hardenbrook, published author, neuroscience enthusiast, and habit change expert. In this episode, we're joined with influencer, Deb Podlager, a k a mocktail mom.

Mike: 00:36

Deb shares her personal journey of breaking up with Chardonnay along with her passion for making delicious mocktails. So whether you're curious about moderation or you just wanna get inspired by Deb's story, this episode is packed with insights, enthusiasm, and Deb's just fun to hang out with. So come join us, and let's get started.

Mike: 01:01

Alright. Today, I'm here with Deb Podlager, mocktail mom, also known as. And, well, first of all, Deb, thanks for coming on.

Deb: 01:08

Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you.

Mike: 01:12

Well, I'm really excited to get into the work that you're doing, pushing NA alternatives, mocktails. But before we get into that, let's get into your origin story because everybody's origin story is personal. Like, this habit and how we navigate it and decide to change, whatever that looks like, is also very personal. So I think a good starting point is to get into that. And I actually want to quote something that you said, which is breaking up with Chardonnay.

Mike: 01:37

So let's get into that story.

Deb: 01:39

Yes. The best breakup ever. And I was divorced, so that tells you something. So I I was I did not grow up as a drinker. I was not a party girl, but it was not until my forties when I really started experiencing very difficult things in life.

Deb: 01:55

One being my divorce that I went through, went through breast cancer. I had a double mastectomy, went through chemo. Both of my parents, had dementia at the time. My mom passed away 3 weeks after my surgery. There were, like, some really hard, hard things.

Deb: 02:09

Like, many people would go through really hard things in life, and wine had not been had not played a significant role in my life. It had been very much, like, in the back seat. You know? Like, we would go to winery. I lived in California for a while, and we'd go to wineries and bring home wine, and it would collect dust at my house.

Deb: 02:24

I mean, I didn't I wasn't drinking every evening or, you know, regularly. It wasn't it didn't have any important role in my life. And, really, when I got divorced and my daughters would go to their dads for the weekend, you know, every other weekend or so, it was like chardonnay became a BFF. She became a it sounds so silly. You know, a friend.

Deb: 02:43

Like, she was my companion. We lived in a new city. At the time, we had just moved here a few months ago. I live outside Louisville, Kentucky, and, we had just moved here. So I didn't know a lot of people, and I felt very lonely.

Deb: 02:54

And Chardonnay took you know, numbed the pain of what I was going through and how lonely I felt. So, it just slowly like, she slowly took, like, more of, like, a shotgun role in my life. You know? Like, as as my forties kinda carried on and was, again, going through those hard things, she just became more and more, you know, present in the vehicle of my life. And the next thing I know, you know, then 2020 happened, and then it was like, now she's driving the car.

Deb: 03:21

Now we're like, I'm riding shotgun. And it's like, you know, 3 o'clock. Like, well, we should start, you know, drinking now because what else is going on? So coming up towards the end of 2020, I was looking forward to 2021, and I was gonna turn 50. I I turned 50 in 2021.

Deb: 03:36

And I just remember feeling like I do not want my fifties to look like my forties have been. Like, I just felt like I was so numbed out and missing the joy in my life. Like, yes, I was numbing the pain, but I was also numbing a lot of the joy. And I have so much joy in my life. I have so much happiness.

Deb: 03:52

I mean, so many good things even even through hard times. You know? So the very last day of 2020, December 31st, was my very first day alcohol free, and I just wanted to I just wanted to take a little break. I thought, I just wanna take do a little challenge, and I wanted to see if I can take basically the month of January off and see if I could do it. I didn't think I could do it.

Deb: 04:09

I was like, there's no way. There's no way. There's no way. I can't live without my wine. So that was kind of where I was when I all that's how I started taking a little break.

Mike: 04:19

Was there one exact moment that you remember, or was it just kind of like this thing in the back of your head where, like, I wanna make this change. I wanna make this change. And then one day you did.

Deb: 04:30

It really there was no I didn't have any rock bottom, big experience, or anything. I think for me, it was just personal rock bottom of waking up waking up at 3 in the morning. The room is spinning. You know? How did I get here?

Deb: 04:40

It's Netflix is asking me, do you wanna continue watching? And I'm thinking, what was I watching? You know? I don't even know what I watched. And then it was just waking up with a hangover on a Tuesday, and it was like, enough is enough.

Deb: 04:52

Like, what am I doing? I have 2 daughters. My daughters now are 22 16. But, you know, so this was I'm 52 now. So, I mean, it's, like, 3 years ago, 3 and a half years ago.

Deb: 05:02

I mean, I was still raising. I'm still raising the younger one. But, you know, I mean, I was raising them, and it's like, what am I doing? This is not who I am. This is not who I was raised to be.

Deb: 05:09

This is not who I know in my heart of hearts I am. It's to look myself in the mirror and know

Mike: 05:30

the bottle off, and I'm looking for a second mini mess. Oh, I

Mike: 05:31

mean, I I know that I've replay that makes me replay all the broken promises to myself over and over again. And the next day, trying to get over myself having those broken promises. And then finally feeling a little bit better and saying, you know what? It's been a little bit of a rocky day. I'm starting to feel good.

Mike: 05:50

Why don't I feel a

Mike: 05:50

little bit better right now?

Deb: 05:52

Exactly. Right?

Mike: 05:53

And then it just repeats that process.

Deb: 05:55

Yeah.

Mike: 05:56

So you wanted to try this experiment with no it sounds like you didn't have anything specifically defined yet. What was what was the initial challenge that you felt? Was it mindset? Was it habit based? Like, talk walk me through.

Mike: 06:11

Walk what was the challenge?

Deb: 06:13

For me, the hardest thing was, like, I wanted to still have something to drink. I did not I am a very fun person naturally, and I don't necessarily need alcohol to be fun. And I wanted to still have a good time. Like, I wanted to still feel part of the party. And so for me, the big challenge was, like, I still need to have something to drink.

Deb: 06:28

I know it's does it sound silly? I don't know. But I wanted to still be able to, you know, have something in my hand. I just wanted to replace what was inside the glass. So, actually, that very first day, so New Year's Eve 2020, I went to Total Wine, and I actually purchased my very first bottle of nonalcoholic wine, which is I actually have the receipt, which I don't keep receipts for anything.

Deb: 06:49

Like, I walk out of Costco and I throw the receipt away before me at my car, you know, that big trash can. But I don't keep anything. For whatever reason, I have that receipt. It was like I must have known, like, this is so this is a monumental thing that's happening right now. It was so life changing, that first bottle of wine.

Deb: 07:01

I wanted to find alternatives. So that to me was the big challenge. Those was finding something good. You know, that was a big challenge. I kinda started going down that trail.

Mike: 07:09

I love that. So, obviously, you're a mom. We have a lot of moms that listen. And me being a dad, you know, I have to get the information from elsewhere. So I wanna know how did this mommy wine culture?

Mike: 07:25

Did you find yourself in that? How did that play a role into it, and how did you maybe adjust how that sat in your life, moving forward?

Deb: 07:34

Definitely. I mean, I have actually, my daughters I mean, it was like a joke. Like, oh, mom loves her wine. You know, I I would put my wine in my best mom ever tumbler. You know, my little tumbler that we have.

Deb: 07:44

I my daughter's got me a, ring for wine, a little bell one year for Christmas. You know, I had all the tea towels, like, about wine and jokes and stuff. So, yes, I a 100% fell in that mommy wine culture, and isn't this all fun? We're gonna go trick or treating, and we have wine in our Yetis. Isn't this great?

Deb: 08:01

We can all mommy together and get and, quote, get through it with, you know, with wine as, you know, riding shotgun. And, yeah, just like, how do I get out of that? And I felt very embarrassed. To be honest, I felt very embarrassed in the very beginning that I was even evaluating my relationship with alcohol. Because I felt like if I don't wanna drink as much, people are gonna think I have a problem.

Deb: 08:23

I didn't tell anybody in the very beginning. I didn't tell my husband. I didn't tell my kids. I didn't tell any neighbors. I didn't tell any friends, like, in real life friends that I was taking a break because I thought, first of all, they're all gonna look at me and be like, oh, yeah.

Deb: 08:34

Right. Like, within a week, we know you're gonna be drinking again. You know? Because that was what I that's right. I didn't think I was gonna succeed.

Deb: 08:39

And so and then I was also embarrassed because I thought if I tell them, then they're gonna really think I have a problem. And then if I start drinking again, they're gonna be like, see, we knew, and and maybe it's more than you think it is. But does that make sense?

Mike: 08:50

I mean, the the shame based around that is just so common, I think. And I wanna get into actually not only the shame based of talking that maybe you're taking a break or cutting back because, well, number 1, you can you can do it to yourself and say, well, I must have a problem or then you can go outside of yourself and say, what are they gonna think? But, also, even as we get further down into our conversation here, I think there's some shame around ordering nonalcoholic out in public because of the same very reason. So I think that that's a really important thing to get into. Hey.

Mike: 09:26

Real quick. I wanna tell you about our 40 lesson masterclass on mindful drinking. This is put on by Sunnyside, taught by experts, and it's absolutely free for you to get access. Go to learn dot sunnyside.co and get started today. So you're moving forward, and tell me what the next step.

Mike: 09:45

What did it look like? What were the improvements? And what it what started to, give start to this mocktail mom? Because I think that's the starting point.

Deb: 09:56

Well, I will say kinda what you were just saying, like, that I was you're afraid peep what people are gonna think about that that shame feeling. The very first time we were out, it was about nineties into my taking a break journey, and we were out at a restaurant, and I ordered I asked the waitress. I was like, okay. I'm gonna be brave, and I'm gonna order a mocktail. And I remember thinking when I asked her, I thought, like, all the lights in the restaurant were gonna, like, turn on me, and everybody's head was gonna turn and be like, what do you mean you're not drinking?

Deb: 10:22

Like, I really felt so self conscious to say, like I literally said, like, do you by any chance, do you have any mocktails? And I'll never forget. She said, oh, no. But I can make you a Shirley Temple. And I was like, wah wah.

Deb: 10:34

Like, I just wanted the ground to open up. And, I mean, it was like the worst response, and I almost said to her because this is what I would normally say is, like, I'll just have a Chardonnay. I almost said it. And I think I just had a water. I was just like, okay.

Deb: 10:45

I just have to get out of here. I just have to make it through the situation. So I started my Instagram handle right about that time. Mocktail.mom was when I started my account, about 10 days in by alcohol free journey because I wanted to share the challenges. Like, what are we drinking?

Deb: 11:00

You know? If we're not drinking, what are we drinking? And let's find some good things to drink. So I just wanted I started my account just to share, like, there's there are things to drink. Like, I didn't know there is nonalcoholic rum.

Deb: 11:09

There's nonalcoholic tequila. I didn't even know that at the time. Like, I had no idea. So I thought, well, if I don't know this, you know, other people must not know it as well, some people. So that's that was how I started my account was just to share my own struggles because I, again, I wasn't telling anybody in my life, and I thought I have to tell somebody.

Deb: 11:23

So it was almost like a little journal, a little video blog or whatever.

Mike: 11:27

Nice. I mean, I I remember ordering NA beers, and it was almost kinda like, hey. Come over here to the corner. Do you have NA beer? And now or if they did, I'd be like, can you bring that in a glass?

Mike: 11:41

But now, I think it's changing, and restaurants are are following suit and they have to because they're missing out on big money. But now it's like this attitude. If I ask if they have any beer and they just have one and it's like one I don't like, I'm like, come on. Get with it. So, like, the attitudes are definitely changing.

Mike: 11:59

So talk to me a little bit about something I've heard you say, which is serving the urge around, with nonalcoholic drinks. Tell us a little bit about that idea.

Deb: 12:09

I think, you know, for me, it was like, okay. How can I like, at 5 o'clock, how can I get through this time, you know, for as a mom, for me, that was like that difficult time where that transition time from, like, daytime to, like, evening routine, making dinner, and it was like my tradition was like, have a drink? So, okay, I have to surf this urge because right now there is an urge to drink. It usually just lasts, like, 15, 20 minutes that, you know, we get through that. So and also just playing the movie forward.

Deb: 12:34

Like, how do I wanna feel tomorrow? Start there, and that's gonna help me make the right decision or the decision for me right now that I want to be making to not drink. So surfing the urge, you know, is for me, having a nonalcoholic drink, whether it's a nonalcoholic wine, I love the nonalcoholic wines, or, you know, having a mocktail or nonalcoholic beer, that truly helps me surf the urge. So but for everybody, it's different. Some people might just be taking a walk.

Deb: 12:57

You know, surf the urge of, like, right now you're wanting to drink or, you know, what is it that's gonna help you get through that that little time? Because it's not it doesn't go on all day. You know? It's usually just like a little time where you're, like, driving home from work or triggers you that's like, oh, this is when I this is when I start thinking about drinking.

Mike: 13:12

Yeah. I've said this story before. Part of the ritual for me was so we never kept a lot of, wine in the house. I did drink wine. That's that was my go to.

Mike: 13:20

I didn't drink, hard alcohol, beer when I'd be out. But one of the things I did like was going to the store and picking out that bottle. So I I would choose what I was gonna drink that night. And what would do it for me is that my wife still drinks wine, and she's much better about it, always has been. And, for me to just call her and say, hey.

Mike: 13:42

Do you want me to get you anything on the way home? And just going in and picking it out, I didn't even want it. You know? I just that would do it for me. It would give me that routine, which I think that's what NA options and mocktails.

Mike: 13:56

They give you it's that, don't replace a ritual. Replace the ingredient kind of thing.

Deb: 14:02

Totally. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And that we're not we're not missing out.

Deb: 14:05

What are we missing out on? You know? A hangover? That's all I that's all I'm missing. I haven't not one day woken up and thought, wow.

Deb: 14:12

I really wish I had a bottle of wine last night. You know?

Mike: 14:15

Yeah. Exactly. I mean, whether it be you moderate to where you don't get a hangover or whether or not you take a break, on the days that you commit to, it is definitely a cheat code in life to to enjoy yourself and not have to pay the price for it.

Deb: 14:28

Yeah. Absolutely. I agree. Absolutely.

Mike: 14:31

So, you know, I think that a big part of changing habits, I mean, I don't think I know, is habit replacement. So if you're doing, that ritual with habit replacement that has a reward attached to it, which is much, much stronger, so something that you enjoy, something that's pretty to look at, I wanna get into that. But, you know, some there's a camp that thinks that this is kind of pushing the limits and dreaming of something that you say you're not gonna have and maybe is flirting with eventually having it. What's your feedback to somebody that has that idea?

Deb: 15:08

I guess for me, I and I I have friends that are in that camp, and I feel like if it's if a mocktail would be a trigger or a non o'clock wine would be a trigger, I'm all like, then don't, you know, just stick with your diet Coke. No problem. But for me, mocktails and non alcoholic options have been the bumper rails of my sobriety. You know? Like, I feel like I can still play along.

Deb: 15:27

It's kept me on track, and it has not it's never been a trigger. It's been the exact opposite. I feel like if I didn't have mocktails, if I didn't have the nonalcoholic wines, that would trigger me. Like, I'd be like, you know what? I'm just gonna have my I'm just gonna have my drinks because I I do enjoy, you know, a nice cocktail or a nice, for me, wines.

Deb: 15:43

You know, the nonalcohol or the the wines is what I really enjoyed the most. So

Mike: 15:48

Yeah. I agree. And, you know, I think that it's basically I've come to the realization that whatever works for you is what you should do.

Mike: 15:58

Yep.

Mike: 15:58

Because I remember one time I posted in this group that, you know, I I took the kids to SeaWorld. I spent the 4th July not having any alcohol. I'd won a beer while barbecuing, and I got, like, destroyed by some people. And, it was such a nonissue for me that I didn't even it didn't even occur to me. And to be honest, like, I almost never drink NA options just because it it doesn't appeal to me that often.

Mike: 16:26

But at the same time, I don't drink soda. I don't like sweet things that much. And soda and lime and Tapo Chico gets a little bland over time. And so I mean but but if that does trigger it for somebody, I think that, you just gotta listen to yourself. And for people like you, it was instrumental in that change and has actually been something that you can rally around that other people are just like you that can also seek better alternatives and better habits through your guidance.

Deb: 16:56

Definitely. Definitely. And I think, you know, there's something that term I just heard is called, like, zebra, like, zebra striped drinking where, like, maybe you have a mocktail, then you have a cocktail. You know? You can whatever works for you.

Deb: 17:07

You know? Whatever is gonna whatever works for you is is what you should be doing. So

Mike: 17:12

Yeah. So tell me about so you started getting it. You started the handle and started talking about it. What got you so passionate in actually getting into this much deeper?

Deb: 17:24

I was just having so much fun. I I like making videos. I like being on camera goofing around. I like sharing, like, the reality of, like, it's not all rainbows and sunshine. You know?

Deb: 17:34

For me, at at this point, I I am living an alcohol free lifestyle, but I did not plan I'm really accidental in this where I've ended up. I mean, I really just at the beginning, was like, I just wanna take a little break, and that just it's just grown into a continual break for me. But, yeah, it's just been so much fun and just connecting with people. I've met so many people on Instagram and Facebook, Tik TikTok who, like I feel like I it's so funny. Like, oh, they're, like, Internet friends, but you feel like you really know them.

Deb: 17:59

Isn't that funny? But they really are. Right? There's people I'm really, really connected with. I really know so well.

Deb: 18:05

I've never met them in in real life, but they're such dear friends, all all from starting this.

Mike: 18:11

Yeah. It's so funny that you say the the experiment. So, like, for me, thinking I wanted to in my late twenties, starting to think, like, maybe I have the only option is abstinence, and I have to give it up forever. It's all or nothing. And that really just kept me from moving forward.

Mike: 18:27

And one time, I just said, you know, I'm gonna do one of these challenges, but it wasn't really a real challenge. It was just a self imposed challenge. I'm gonna do 30 days. And I got 30 days, and I've done that many times, but I thought, well, you know, I've never done 60. Why don't I try 60?

Mike: 18:41

And I ended up going, like, 8 8, 10 months. Never even really it just kinda flew by after a certain point. And for me, that's what actually allowed me to step out and take pause and actually bring and implement mindfulness to it if and when I did end up doing reintroducing, which eventually I did. And I still take extended breaks a lot. But everybody has their own different way.

Mike: 19:05

Some people need to stop altogether. Some people, Sunnyside users, it's much more practical for you to limit the amounts on certain days and the amount of days within the week. And that's what I love, talking to people like you with such a different varied story. You started later. You were in mommy wine culture.

Mike: 19:25

You're using mocktails to help kinda, like, stay social, feel great, do something that you really enjoy. So let's talk about because I'm talking too much. No.

Mike: 19:36

You're Let's

Mike: 19:36

talk about, how can people start so did you start doing this in your daily routine, and how did you start, like, conveying that to other people?

Deb: 19:44

You mean, like, just drinking mocktails and stuff?

Mike: 19:47

Yeah. We're getting creative with it.

Deb: 19:49

I honestly, first of all, I'm just an idiot on camera. I mean, I pull expired ingredients out of my pantry and start making drinks, and I'm looking at the thing. Like, one time, it was, like, in the fall, and I was gonna make a pumpkin pie spice coffee, some drink or whatever. I was about to go pick up my daughter for school. I was, like, let me make a quick video for Instagram.

Deb: 20:05

And literally, as I looked down at the thing, it was from expired 2007, which is the same year my daughter I was going to pick up from school. So, like, I just, like, just have a good time. You know what I mean? Like, I just, like, do not take myself too seriously. But, yeah, just started in just started experimenting, like, with, like, ingredients and going to the liquor store.

Deb: 20:21

For me, I shop it locally. I shop at total wine. That was a big challenge in the very beginning because they keep the nonalcoholic options in the very back. For me, personally, it was very hard to walk past all my old, you know, boyfriends, Josh, the models, and, you know, Kim Crawford. All you know, it was a challenge to get back there, but I wanted to try new things.

Deb: 20:39

I wanted to try try stuff out. And so just sharing that on Instagram is is just how I showed up. Like, I have no idea what I'm doing. I and I've from minute 1, I was like, I'm not a mixologist. I've never played a bartender on TV.

Deb: 20:50

I don't know what I'm doing. And you don't need to either to still find something. We all find something good to drink. And I feel like just to encourage people, like, just try something. Like, I was not I wasn't a tequila drinker, but that was the very first nonalcoholic spirit I bought.

Deb: 21:03

And I love now a spicy, margarita with the nonalcoholic tequila. It's delicious. Who would have known? You know?

Mike: 21:10

I mean, how relatable is that for anyone that's wanting to change their habits? They can go in their cabinet, find anything expired, and

Deb: 21:19

make something new. Hopefully, not as expired as my stuff. You cannot believe this house I live in. I'm like, what is going on here? We're not hoarders.

Mike: 21:27

So what's it? You know what? I think I'd rather instead of me just coming up with a question, what is, like, the number one question you get all the time from people that follow you that wanna learn more about what you're doing, experiments that you're trying to do. Crazy. Tell us a little bit about this.

Deb: 21:43

You know what? What I hear a lot people ask, like, okay. What do I order if I'm going out to eat? You know? Or what I'm what do I how do I handle going out and and trying to stay on my nonalcohol, you know, track or on moderating or, you know, being more mindful?

Deb: 21:55

I hear that a lot. And then, like, what are some basic things to get started, you know, with making mocktails or having, like, a little nonalcoholic station? And I feel like I I always encourage people, like, not to get overwhelmed. You don't have to have every single ingredient. You know, maybe just pick out, like, one nonalcoholic spirit because they're expensive.

Deb: 22:12

You know? They're, I don't know, $35 a bottle. Typically, they're they're not cheap, and there's they're usually not the trial size, you know, the little airplane size. So, you know, you're spending $30 usually to buy a bottle of nonalcoholic spirits. And so I say, like, just pick 1.

Deb: 22:25

You know? Maybe say, like, I'm gonna pick a rum or a tequila or a nonalcoholic whiskey, and start there, you know, maybe making some drinks with that one spirit. If you wanna make with spirit, you don't even have to have spirits to have a mocktail or something. You know, and then with the nonalcoholic wines, there's so many good nonalcoholic wines now. I mean, it's we're so beyond, you know, Martinelli's and Odules.

Deb: 22:46

It's just crazy. The options that are available that you could hand to somebody, and they would never know it's a nonalcoholic option because it tastes so close to the real deal, the leaded version. But I don't know if does that answer your question?

Mike: 22:58

Yeah. I actually had a friend over a couple weeks ago, and he was telling me a story that he got a 6 pack and was drinking it. And his girlfriend was like, you're not gonna drink that whole 6 pack, are you? He's like, he was on beer number 2. He's like, no.

Mike: 23:09

I don't think so. And I think he got to beer number 3, and then his girlfriend said, hey. By the way, you got the nonalcoholic. He had no idea.

Deb: 23:18

Isn't that so funny? Isn't that, like, amazing? I had, the founder of Go Brewing, which is an amazing nonalcoholic beer company. He was on my podcast, and he has, like, a little tasting room. And he was saying there was a guy in his tasting room sitting there at the bar drinking, like, for an hour or 2, and he was chit chatting with them.

Deb: 23:36

And then he asked he asked him, like, do you was it normal for you? Don't you know, do you drink nonalcohol all the time? And the guy was like, what? Like, he didn't even realize he was sitting in a bar like, a tasting room of all nonalcohol options.

Mike: 23:46

Oh, that's funny. Yeah. Well, hey. So you got a book coming out. The happiest hour, delicious mocktails for a fabulous moms night in.

Mike: 23:57

Give us some, key points what readers can expect with this new book.

Deb: 24:01

Okay. I really tried to have fun with it. It's a recipe book, but it really I sprinkle my story within the book of just, you know, having hot flashes and being in a stage in life where you feel authentic freedom. You know, like, I don't color my hair anymore, and, you know, you can just you start feeling a little more free in your fifties. So, you know, I just tried to keep it really fun.

Deb: 24:19

Like, I have one whole section called I have different titles or, like, not past our prime is one of the chapter titles. Spicy mama mocktails, you know, for us moms. And you can be a mom of a dog. You don't have to be a you know, you could be a mom to others in different ways. Right?

Deb: 24:32

Or pets or something. You don't have to be like a mom. Buzzworthy brunch minus the buzz, meant to be mocktails. And I have a whole section on mules because those are such easy mocktails to start with and just so simple to make. Anyway, just just really had fun with it.

Deb: 24:47

Like, with a I have a whole section called hot flash mamas need frozen drinks because, so just try to have a good time because, you know, you get past 15, it's like and for me, I mean, I don't know. I know there's not everybody's this way at my age, but, you know, a lot of us like to be in our robe at 9 o'clock. So I'm like, you know what? Let's have something good to drink. Let's be home and have a good time.

Deb: 25:06

So

Mike: 25:07

No. It definitely sounds like fun. Did you have is this your first book?

Deb: 25:12

This is my very first book. This was a terrifying experience, and I am, I feel like I'm jumping off a cliff in a lot of ways with the writing of this book. But, yes.

Deb: 25:23

So I do have the cover. I

Deb: 25:24

just got the cover, sample the other day. So it actually comes out on election day, which I think is perfect timing because America is going to need mocktails no matter what, who, what, where, when, why, it doesn't matter. It's just America's gonna need some mocktails. So I think it's a good good timing for the book to come out.

Mike: 25:41

Oh, a 100%. I mean November you want to win, you're gonna need it.

Deb: 25:44

Exactly. We can all day drink together with the happiest hour. Yes.

Mike: 25:48

I don't think you wanna hang over in that case. So

Deb: 25:51

Nope.

Mike: 25:51

I totally agree.

Deb: 25:52

Yeah.

Mike: 25:53

Yeah. No. I was asking because, also, you know, first time author about a year ago, and, it's always interesting to hear how the process is because it's not what you think it's gonna be. That's for sure.

Deb: 26:04

Isn't it? It's it's really not I mean, I don't know about you, but, like, the title has changed a couple of times. Like, there's been different changes along the way, like, working with the publisher and stuff. But, I had a video that went really viral, and that was how the acquisition editor got connected to me. This was, like, about a year and a half or so ago.

Deb: 26:22

So, that was What

Mike: 26:23

was the video? Let's hear it.

Deb: 26:24

It was, it was around the time that Don Lemon, on CNN had mentioned that women past 50 are past their prime or women, like, think in yeah. I think this is how I put it. I think that was an ex something like that is what he'd said. And I couldn't get that I couldn't get it out of my head what he had said. Like, excuse me?

Deb: 26:40

You know? Like, I've been through a lot of hard times in life, like and I am not past my prime. Like, I am just getting started. I couldn't get out of my head. My husband's out working on his truck doing something, fixing something, and I was like, I'll be right back.

Deb: 26:50

And I went in my kitchen and made a video about, like, you know, I've had breast cancer. You know, I've had this. I've had that. I've had things happen. But you know what?

Deb: 26:57

I'm just getting started. And so it's it's a Don Lemon mocktail. So it's in the book.

Mike: 27:03

Yeah. What a popular thing to say.

Deb: 27:05

He yeah. Yeah. Really. Thank you so much. Yeah.

Deb: 27:07

And you're older than I am. Okay.

Mike: 27:11

Okay. So you wrote a book, so you got all this knowledge. Actually, fill us in. And this is impromptu, so, hopefully, it's not putting you on the spot too much. And so if somebody wanted to let's say they're having a a party at home, and they wanna provide both, like, a mocktail, maybe a bar for people that are going to non NA auctions or they have the regular bar.

Mike: 27:35

Where's, like, a starting point? Because I think I know I would think, what store do I go to or what type of store do I go to? What brands are good? How do I set it up? And how do I set it up where people wanna, you know, actually make themselves a drink?

Deb: 27:49

Yeah. Yeah. I gosh. I mean, just fun glassware, you know, have some fun. Just make it so that if somebody's holding it, no one will know that they have the mocktail.

Deb: 28:00

You know? That it's just just as much fun, just as elevated, or it can just be, you know, a mason jar, you know, glasses that you have for everybody. It doesn't have to be elevated, like, fancy crystal or something. But, yeah, going to the store and whether you have, like, different, you know, maybe, like, different juices, different fruits, you know, maybe that you have that you're squeezing for them, but you can have, like, I use Q mixers a lot. So they have, like, a ginger beer.

Deb: 28:25

A lot of times, like, mules would be perfect. They'd be so easy. You can have different garnishes. You can have a little garnish set up for people. But, like, the for me, the q mixers, I love.

Deb: 28:34

They have, like, a hibiscus, ginger beer that, has, like, a bite to it. It has that spice. Good. It's so good. And I I find especially, you know, whether you're, you know, making having a cocktail and then a mocktail, but having that spice or having a little bite, it makes it feel like you're still having the alcohol.

Deb: 28:50

It kinda, like I don't know that that bite or whatever. So, I love their hibiscus ginger beer, but I think something like that with just a ginger beer and just keep things, like, really easy. But you could definitely go to Total Wine or go to, you know, your grocery store, get some mixers, and, just get started that way. Very easy.

Mike: 29:05

Yeah. I love ginger beer on ice and the right glass so glassware is such a big thing that at least me, as a man, I forget, you know, how important that is, but it really does make the experience. And one of the things that I miss so much, especially when I took this extended break, I happened to be in Chicago at the time, was having a Moscow mule on the river. But it was it was really just about it being ice cold, in my hand cold, looking at the water, like, just talking with people. It really wasn't about, you know, what was in it is on top of the mule.

Deb: 29:38

Totally. Totally. And I will say, like, about glassware, for me, you know, once I kind of really decide, like, okay. I'm really enjoying not drinking. Having new glassware and creating new memories with that glassware, like, I don't drink out of my mommy, my best, you know, best mom ever Tumblr anymore because I had so many memories of waking up with a hangover, you know, and having that glass sitting there next to me in the bed or, you know, on the bedside table or whatever.

Deb: 30:02

So now having new glassware that, like, has only been for my mocktails and new experiences and stuff has been very helpful. But, again, you know, maybe somebody's just having mocktails and cocktails. Doesn't matter to me.

Mike: 30:13

No. So this has been awesome. Before we go, I I do wanna talk a little bit about something that you do. It's a mocktail summit in January. What do participants expect, with your events?

Deb: 30:24

Okay. The mocktail summit, I did the first one last year during National Mocktail Weeks. There's actually a mocktail week. So we had it's a virtual event last year. It's 3 days.

Deb: 30:34

We're gonna do the same thing again this year. It'll be 3 days. There'll be about 15 to 16 15 to 18, mocktail presenters. So people who are in the mocktail space, who create content, mocktail influencers will come on. It's all virtual, so people can come from anywhere in the world, sign up.

Deb: 30:49

You'll be able to watch, the sessions. You'll get the recipes. So it gives you drinks to make and just encouragement on, you know, your sober curious or, you know, mocktail curious journey. You know, there's no and it's a it's for everybody. It's for people who are cocktail drinkers, mocktail drinkers.

Deb: 31:05

It's just for people to come and learn about the nonalcoholic space and what options there are, but it's all virtual. So that's that's been so much fun. It was such a blast last year. We had, like, 1600 people, I think, last year. So Wow.

Deb: 31:17

Hopefully, we'll have, yeah, hopefully, we'll have that or even more this year. I would love that.

Mike: 31:20

Incredible. That sounds like fun, and, actually, I'll get info from you on that.

Deb: 31:23

Yeah. For sure. For sure. I'd love to have you there. That'd be great.

Mike: 31:27

Well, Devin, this has been incredible. Thank you so much for coming on. I wanna give you an opportunity to give any parting advice to anybody about anything that we talked about or something in your own mind that you'd like to leave us with.

Deb: 31:40

I think, not to be overwhelmed. To just I know people say take it one day at a time. You know? Don't get overwhelmed with the mocktails. Just maybe find one thing that you enjoy drinking, you know, that's in between your cocktails or just something new to lean into.

Deb: 31:55

Find those find the things that you enjoy, and don't be afraid to try new things. There's gonna you're gonna go to the store and be like, what? I don't even I never drank tequila. But, you know, don't be afraid to try, you know, a nonalcoholic mocktail or a, you know, nonalcoholic margarita, I should say. But just take it one.

Deb: 32:08

I know I didn't quite understand that, but I didn't it really has helped me to not get overwhelmed with, like, you know, my my journey of being, you know, more mindful.

Mike: 32:17

Yeah. Definitely. Don't get overwhelmed, and, also, don't be embarrassed about it.

Deb: 32:22

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Sober and proud.

Deb: 32:24

Yep.

Mike: 32:25

Awesome. Yeah.

Mike: 32:26

Well, hey. If anybody wants

Mike: 32:28

to reach out, get more information, what's the best way for them to do that?

Deb: 32:32

I'm on Instagram. So it's mocktail.mom is my Instagram handle. My website is mocktailmom.com, and then my email is deb@mocktailmom dotcom is my email if anybody wants to shoot me a line. Yeah. Yeah.

Deb: 32:44

We'd love to love to connect. So thank you so much, and thank you guys for Sunnyside and everything you guys are doing, to support so many thousands of people who are we're just looking, just, you know, trying to moderate and and track things. So thank you.

Mike: 32:57

Deb, thanks so much for taking the time to come here and share with everybody.

Deb: 33:01

Awesome. Thank you, Mike.

Mike: 33:03

Thanks for listening to Journey to the Sunnyside. And if you enjoyed this episode, the best way you can show your support is by going on whatever platform you're listening on and giving us an honest review. This is gonna help others find us. And to be honest, it would mean the world to me. So if you can do that for me, I'd appreciate it, and thanks again for listening.

Mike: 33:25

This podcast is brought to you by Sunnyside, the number one alcohol moderation platform, having helped hundreds of thousands of people cut out more than 13,000,000 drinks since 2020. And in fact, an independent study showed that Sunnyside reduced alcohol consumption by an average of 30% in 90 days. And as one of our members shared, Sunnyside helps me stay mindful of my drinking habits. It's not super restrictive. So if I'm craving a glass of wine with dinner, I just track it and I move on with my week.

Mike: 33:56

If you could benefit from drinking a bit less and being more mindful of when and how much you drink, head on over to sunnyside.co to get a free 15 day trial. You'll get access to everything that we offer, including tracking and planning tools, coaching from our experts, a vibrant community of people just like you, and the motivation and advice to stay on track with your health goals, all with no pressure to quit. That's sunnyside.co.