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Join Talisman, an award-winning, full-service agency igniting memorable partnerships & collaborations across sports, entertainment & web3 where they host industry leaders to unapologetically deconstruct the business of sports.
Welcome to the Playbook podcast by Talisman. Our first live Playbook Conversations panel in New York City brought together leaders across sports and entertainment marketing for real conversations about how brands can energize their sports marketing initiatives with purpose. In this episode, we sit down with Sarah Brooks, CMO of BetterHelp, who shares how the company is elevating mental health access and using sports and culture to tell authentic resonant stories.
Tom Fox:Thanks everybody for being here. Sarah, a special warm welcome to you. I could read Sarah's bio extensively. The through line for Sarah's career is really as a disruptor. Every business she's been in, she's disrupted to try to get those business to scale for growth.
Tom Fox:She's currently the CMO at BetterHelp. If you don't know what BetterHelp is, you'll you'll definitely know about it at the end of this session. Dartman was talking about how, you know, some brands don't know what to do and some brands might not be able to find their marketing solutions through sports. I think what BetterHelp is doing and I think where you sit within the within your space right now, I think you found a great way to market your business through sports. So I'm really looking forward to the conversation today.
Tom Fox:So welcome. Wanted to start first off talking about sort of the macro view of the need state. So Better Health provides online counseling services. And I think everybody's aware in The United States, we've got a mental health crisis here. It's become a real issue, I think especially for young people.
Tom Fox:So I'd love your thoughts on, you know, why is this now this big issue that people are talking about? And what's what is the mission of of BetterHelp? What are you trying to do?
Sarah Brooks:Thanks for having me. So good to meet you in person. And thanks to the Talisman team. I'm delighted to be here. So look, you're absolutely right.
Sarah Brooks:We are in a mental health crisis, not just in The US, but globally. So one in eight people globally, that's one billion people, are experiencing anxiety or depression, and only thirty percent of them actually get treatment. That's really profound. And if you think about mental health and how that's connected to your physical health, connected to your community, to your family, the impact of actually seeking support is felt globally. So this is a big problem that BetterHelp has sought out to solve.
Sarah Brooks:And the company's been around for twelve years. We've been at this for a long time. I think we can all identify why are people more depressed? Why are they more anxious? If you think about the world today, there's economic uncertainty.
Sarah Brooks:There's political unrest. There's a constant need to be online. Young people in particular, are talking about mental health. And in our State of Stigma report earlier this year, where we surveyed 16,000 people across 23 countries, we found that Gen Z most likely to talk about their mental health online, but also the most likely to say that seeking support for mental health makes you mentally weak. That's more than millennials and baby boomers combined, and this was shocking.
Sarah Brooks:I actually had the data team run this data back several times because I didn't believe that could be true. So I think, when it comes to young people today, of course, there's always been pressure on generations as they're identifying their self and so on. But there are just a lot of, a lot of things that exist in the world today that that didn't.
Tom Fox:So it's not always been this big a problem. And what are you know, we talk a little bit about some of those societal causes. You're right in the middle of it. What what what you know, we've got people out here who are parents of children. What what can you tell us about really what's driving some of this anxiety and some of this need state that you're you're hoping to fill?
Sarah Brooks:Yeah. So I think we find a lot of the macro conditions that we just talked about, right? So this political unrest, economic uncertainty
Tom Fox:Social media.
Sarah Brooks:Social media. You talk to any young person today, they're worried AI is gonna take their job. Right? So If
Tom Fox:they have a job.
Sarah Brooks:If they have a job. Right? And so I think there are just, a lot of pressures that exist. And, again, it's a constant plugged and so there's a lot that people feel that they're missing.
Tom Fox:You talked a little bit about one of the barriers. There's a a stigma. What are what are so I wanna talk a little bit more about that, but there's other barriers as well. Talk about those.
Sarah Brooks:We find three main barriers to seeking support. One is stigma, and that's pervasive. It's different, right, depending on where you live. In The US, coastal especially, a little less pronounced, but still there, especially in particular communities. In addition to stigma, though, we find cost is a big driver.
Sarah Brooks:Therapy is not inexpensive. If you're going to a provider in person, you're paying out of pocket in a lot of cases, that's $202.50 a week. It's expensive. In addition to that, we find that access. So there's also a shortage of mental health providers globally.
Sarah Brooks:And so just getting access, you're in a long wait list. You may also just feel a little bit of pressure and and maybe, again, tying back to stigma, maybe you don't wanna go in your rural community to the one therapist where you might be sitting in the waiting room with who knows, right,
Tom Fox:from in the grocery store later
Sarah Brooks:that day. So really we find it stigma, cost, and access.
Tom Fox:So this phenomenon, now you've got, you know, the the societal pressure is increasing the need for it. People are seeking it out more. You guys are certainly doing a great job marketing and getting the the word out that you're there as a possible resource, but how do you scale up the provider side of this? It's, you know, the need state has grown probably like a hockey stick on the back of COVID and a variety of other things. How do you scale up the people that can actually help them?
Tom Fox:Where do you find them? Are you struggling to fill that need,
Speaker 4:or are there are there people out there?
Sarah Brooks:Yeah. So through line in my career is definitely disruption and also marketplaces. So I'm also responsible for our provider growth globally. And look. This is a real need.
Sarah Brooks:One of the things that we focus on is making sure that within our provider network, we're providing really great resources. Word-of-mouth, just like in any marketing, is is really important. So what's the experience that we're offering for providers on BetterHelp? We also focus on, helping and supporting people and being careful because we're launching something next week that I don't wanna give away, but stay tuned here, where we want to encourage new people to enter this profession. So we spend a lot of time with students, getting them to to become providers, become therapists.
Sarah Brooks:It's not easy. I would say that this is a very specialized role, but we are proud to have over 35,000 providers globally in our network. And we think that that's very important because what we find is the right therapist means everything. So one of our core differentiators compared to other online therapy networks is that we match you with a therapist. And so having a deep and extensive therapist network where someone, again, may be suited to your particular, backgrounds, your culture, that's important because that drives those meaningful outcomes.
Sarah Brooks:And we find that we can match 93% of personal preferences in our network today.
Tom Fox:JFK had a great quote. You fix the roof when the sun is shining, and there's a huge trend now in in regular medicine. Right? Don't wait until you're sick to try to deal with your your physical health, and and there's certainly a lot of companies and start up companies that are disrupting the traditional medical space. You and I talked a little bit about that philosophy driving a little bit of your marketing efforts.
Tom Fox:Talk a little bit about that. It it sort of gets to stigma. How do you get people to recognize that don't wait until you're in crisis? What tell me tell me about your experience there.
Sarah Brooks:Yeah. Absolutely. So I'll share a personal anecdote on this. I I go to therapy and have done a lot of executive coaching as well. And, as I was starting on my executive journey, I was working with my coach and, also raising two young children, juggling it on, looking.
Sarah Brooks:A couple of you maybe can relate. And, she told me, look, your life is so meticulously organized down to the minute, down to the hour. Who needs to be where? Where are you spending your time? And if any even seemingly small thing comes in, it's like a meteor in your world, and it blows everything up.
Sarah Brooks:And I said, yeah, sure. What's your point? Right? Like, I'm aware. Right?
Sarah Brooks:And she really encouraged me to think about things differently. How do you create more time and space in your day so that when something small comes up, you can handle it and not be so programmed down to, you know, the hour? And so I share that anecdote because I think I wasn't in crisis. However, a year later, we were in lockdown in COVID. I'm trying to keep a business alive.
Sarah Brooks:I'm trying to keep my children from bouncing off the walls and doing remote schooling at the same time. And wow. Did those tips come in handy at that time? And if I hadn't had that conversation, I really struggle to think about what my day to day life would have been like.
Tom Fox:I told you we were starting late. You certainly processed that effectively. So clearly, it's working.
Sarah Brooks:No problem. I have a little buffer in the schedule.
Tom Fox:I know how you do. I'm just kidding. I wanna talk a little bit about, marketing. You you, I know you're coming into Disrupt. You talked, about how you used to start with performance based sort of marketing tools, but you're now moving into more brand building and storytelling.
Tom Fox:And we'll get to how you're bringing that alive through sports. But tell us a little bit about that journey. That's obviously very disruptive to a business that's really been out there just blanketing the right types of audience. Now you're trying to get a little more depth to your story. What what are your marketing tactics?
Tom Fox:How are you how are you approaching that?
Sarah Brooks:Yeah. So BetterHelp has been around for twelve years. I've been with the company for one. I just had my one year anniversary. And this is common for a lot of direct to consumer Internet brands.
Sarah Brooks:Right? You sort of start by performance marketing, so focusing on digital channels like Google and Meta and really looking at what's the return on investment, what's the ROAS, and how much can I scale this? And that's very common. That's the early stages. Then you move to the sort of messy middle.
Sarah Brooks:I call it the adolescent years. I heard somebody say that earlier at the panel, and I thought, wow, that's right. We're really teenagers right now. We're a little gangly. We're thinking our way into brand.
Sarah Brooks:And
Tom Fox:So you dealt with this at Facebook when you were there early, and The RealReal is So part of your you've seen this before.
Sarah Brooks:I've seen this before. And so, you know, all performance marketing has creative associated with it. Right? So you are building brand. You are talking about, like, what's my key audience?
Sarah Brooks:What are the insights that are forming? Like, what's my positioning? What's my messaging? What's the tone? But not in the same way.
Sarah Brooks:Right? And so, BetterHelp has been, you know, omnichannel for many years. We're one of the largest podcast advertisers in The US, for example, but all really from, like, a direct response perspective. As we step into building the brand, and not only, yes, I'm aware of BetterHelp, I've heard about you on every podcast, if you've Show fans, if you listen to podcasts.
Tom Fox:Or you've seen the billboard as you're driving up So 3rd Avenue and 48th Street,
Sarah Brooks:we're really thinking now about, yes, we wanna make sure that we build on that awareness, but also that we move into consideration, to affinity, right, to loyalty. And so sports plays a big part in that. And if you think about our audience and you think about where are they spending time, where are they paying attention, sports, our culture, they're at the epicenter of all of that. And so we're stepping into that world
Tom Fox:as well. Say the young people, they aren't paying attention. They're spending their time everywhere, and nothing's nothing's driving them. You you also talked about Gen Z valuing these lived experiences. How how are you leveraging that into your marketing as well?
Tom Fox:Because that's obviously important to that audience.
Sarah Brooks:Gen Z sees right through every advertising tactic. You have to tell real, authentic, vulnerable stories. And you have to do that with voices that they value in a way that's really, again, vulnerable and authentic, especially when you're talking about a mental health product. Right? And so we work a lot with content creators.
Sarah Brooks:We do a lot of evaluation on what's their content today, how resonant is mental health in selling this, you know, product ultimately, but talking about that? How's that gonna sit with their audience? Can we produce a creative that's brand safe for us and also brand safe for them? Right? And so when we find those, it works really well.
Sarah Brooks:I'll give you one example if we have time. I mentioned the State of Stigma report that we ran in May. We also had a content creator activation as part of this, and this went viral on TikTok. So two Gen Z folks sitting in an apartment, they break a glass. And one says, oh, I'll go clean it up.
Sarah Brooks:And the other says, oh, no. Maybe we'll just put let's let's put some rope around it. Let's put some tape around it. Let's What if we just leave the let's just leave it here forever. Right?
Sarah Brooks:What do you think about that? I don't wanna we might break our finger. We might whatever. Right? And, it was a metaphor, of course, for therapy and and the stigma of not addressing a big issue and rather just sort of putting a fence around and, you know, sweeping it under the rug.
Sarah Brooks:And it really resonated with the audience, not just because the message was salient, but also the way that it was delivered. Everything from the set, if you will. I mean, it's just their apartment. Right? But, everything from the set to the content creators to the way that they delivered it.
Tom Fox:Have you so have you seen sort of the results of these early efforts? I know you've only been there a year, but you talked about wanting consumers to feel something about BetterHelp. Have you got any metrics back on that similarly to the stigma? Do you understand what people are feeling?
Sarah Brooks:I'm delighted to say that we are. And I truly thought it would take a lot longer. And, of course, you know, chief growth officers, chief marketing officers have short tenures often. And so it's a big risk coming in and saying, hey. We're gonna focus on brands, and here's what we're gonna be monitoring.
Sarah Brooks:And truly, I thought it would take at least a year, maybe two, for us to start to see some green shoots. But I'm happy to say all of our metrics are up into the right, and that we're seeing our efforts pay off.
Tom Fox:Yeah. We talked about how sort of, unfortunately, the trend is your friend in this business. There's a lot of need, you know, on some level, you don't want the the total addressable market to keep growing here, but it it's a big need state. You've got competition out there. Who are you, who's your competition?
Tom Fox:How are you differentiating yourself from other people that are providing these types of services? Because I mean, your marketing has to be a big differentiator because on some level, therapy is therapy. It can be commoditized potentially. So how are you thinking about your competition?
Sarah Brooks:Sure. I always say that stigma is still our number one competitor. So forty percent of our new members have never tried therapy before. Not online therapy. They've just never gone to therapy.
Sarah Brooks:Right? So I still think about that as our main message, our main competitor. That said, especially in The US, this is a competitive market. How do we stand out? We're the leader in the space.
Sarah Brooks:We have the most scale. We've helped over 5,000,000 people. We have 35,000 providers. Again, that drives real outcomes. 72 of people feel better within 12, And that's all clinically vetted, right?
Sarah Brooks:I'm talking about the PHQ and the GAD, right? So that is our core differentiator is the scale. In addition to that, as I mentioned, we spent a lot of time using all of the data over the past twelve years to match you with the right therapist. So think about you're in need. You've identified that you're gonna take this first big step, and you're presented with a long list of providers to choose from.
Sarah Brooks:That's not very helpful, right? So BetterHelp actually does this work. You take this intake quiz. It's pretty long, right? And it asks some very personal questions.
Sarah Brooks:But we do that so that we can match you with the right therapist. And so that's another big differentiator for BetterHelp. And again, that's driving those real clinical outcomes where people are feeling better within twelve weeks.
Speaker 5:If you
Tom Fox:do the work on the front end to pair them up the right way,
Speaker 5:you would Exactly. Get the right
Sarah Brooks:And if we happen to get it wrong, you can switch at any time. Right? But we find that most people will recommend their therapist. Right? So it's really working for them.
Sarah Brooks:And, again, that's based on everything that you're telling us that you're going through, your background, and also all of the long history that we have and so many people that we've helped.
Tom Fox:So I've seen your ads on television. I told you I saw your billboard on 3rd Avenue, which is great. You're employing every marketing tactic, and you've recently moved into sports sponsorship. And again, DARPin referenced this. Some businesses that are doing this that shouldn't be doing it.
Tom Fox:You're looking for authentic storytelling. You know, we've got a professional athlete in Brook here. I I having worked with professional athletes my whole career, it's a high pressure environment. So talk a little bit about what drove you into sports, what drove you then into the properties that you chose in the in the WNBA, and and how you're bringing those authentic stories to life through that partnership.
Sarah Brooks:Yeah. So we're partnering with three WNBA teams this year. And look. When, when women's sports is on the rise, when it's one of the fastest growing leagues, you pay attention. People are energized.
Sarah Brooks:I don't know if you've attended a w game recently, but it is energetic.
Tom Fox:We were there last night at the next game.
Speaker 5:You said it
Sarah Brooks:was yeah. Incredible. Amazing. And so, we started digging in. We looked at the demographics.
Sarah Brooks:We looked at the audiences. We saw a tremendous brand alignment. And then Olivier, my head of brand partnerships, who does all the hard work, knows Logan from Talisman. And we started just brainstorming. How can we move beyond just, you know, logos and, you know, some of the LED placements, which, don't get me wrong, are wonderful, but how can we really move into this authentic storytelling?
Sarah Brooks:So with the three teams, I'll just highlight some of the things we're doing. With the Liberty, the New York Liberty if you're local, we're running this six player campaign. So the concept of the six player in basketball brought in in the really tough times. Right? So you can rely on this, player, and we're using it as a metaphor for therapy and for better health.
Sarah Brooks:So, the tagline is your sixth player on and off the court. You may see the out of home campaign as you reference. We're in a number of placements around Barclays and Brooklyn as well as some key spots in Manhattan. And we're really amplifying that message with the Liberty. The Las Vegas Aces, a bit of a different fan base.
Sarah Brooks:Right? And we are working with them. When you're on the free throw line, obviously, such a mental game. Do you have the physical acumen and talent to hit a free throw? Of course.
Sarah Brooks:Right? But what actually is happening is a mental game at this moment in time. And so we partner with the ACEs and the Las Vegas chapter of NAMI, which is a national nonprofit for mental health. Every free throw that the ACEs make, we donate three months of therapy through NAMI. So, again, a really high impact storytelling while you're there experiencing the game and, of course, something that we're taking and amplifying, digitally.
Sarah Brooks:And then the wings, who are sort of the underdog in Dallas. They got Paige. Like to call her Paige Buckets lovingly, but Paige Buckers, that they got as the first draft pick this year. But they're a bit of an underdog story. Right?
Sarah Brooks:And with them, we produce a two part docuseries. It's called Get Your Head in the Game, and we talk about how important mental health is to your performance on the court. So really trying to amplify beyond, of course, the banners, and we love those when we're at the game. It's fun to see. What are those real authentic stories that we can tell?
Sarah Brooks:And Brooke is here. It's so good to meet you. I think that today, people are really following not only the team, but the athletes. And when you think about what the athletes in the WNBA, in particular, in any sport that's on the rise, are facing, they truly are experiencing so much hate on social media. It's a lot of vitriol.
Sarah Brooks:They're being cast into the public eye in a way where we really wanted to support them. We ran a campaign for March Madness this year, and we did it with the female, NCAA tournament. And we found that one in three college students experiences hate online from people with sports betting interests. These are college athletes. We found also that it's three times worse for women.
Sarah Brooks:So we said, that's it. We have to support these women. Right? So we offered all of them free therapy. We offered one month free therapy, for every student athlete across The US, and, we came up with a campaign called Stop the Madness that I'm very proud of.
Sarah Brooks:So, again, trying to find these, again, marketers, trying to find your consumer, trying to find the insight. What's the message beyond BetterHelp? And it's been working so well.
Tom Fox:Sounds like the online trolls are the people that could use the mental health help molyneux.
Sarah Brooks:Don't get me started on the campaign I wanted to with the recent W event.
Tom Fox:Well, it happens in all sport. It happens in all sport, though. It's there's so much online hatred when somebody makes a mistake. That's why I think, you know, your involvement in sports is just the perfect messaging point for you. But you mentioned also that you're looking at other avenues, entertainment, music.
Tom Fox:Tell tell us how that's playing out for you. Is it through influencers? Is it through content creation with other people trying to get your message out there? What how do the other other industries work for you?
Sarah Brooks:Yeah. Just like athletes, again, I think have unique and vulnerable stories to tell that we wanna help amplify this match message of getting support. We find that in entertainment as well. So, we are global, as I mentioned, and we got the opportunity to work with a UK superstar. He's the most streamed artist, at in all of The UK called Lewis Capaldi.
Sarah Brooks:He also had a mental health event about two years ago where he broke down on stage at Glastonbury, and his fans sang him off the stage. It was the most beautiful moving thing. We knew that he was coming back into the public eye, releasing a new album, showing up at Glastonbury. And, again, the amazing work of Olivier back here. We partnered with him, and he announced in one week, he announced his Glassenbury comeback.
Sarah Brooks:The second week, he announced, his partnership with BetterHelp. And in this partnership, he said, therapy is the reason why I can still be a musician. To my fans, I wanna offer you seven hundred and thirty four thousand hours of donated therapy together with BetterHelp, representing one thousand hours for every day that I was out of the public eye. And the results have been amazing. One, I still get goosebumps talking about it because how powerful, but how vulnerable for this superstar to say, I went and worked on my mental health, and now I can be back, and I wanna gift you therapy.
Sarah Brooks:I just think it's super powerful.
Tom Fox:You can imagine that affecting people's stigma, right, when you get a guy
Sarah Brooks:that public
Tom Fox:willing to talk about it
Sarah Brooks:and So now we think about, great, we love that message. We love all the campaign assets we got. We're, of course, using it and all the channels where we advertise. But how can we continue that story? Right?
Sarah Brooks:So he's just now back on tour in The UK. How do we get his fans to interact with him and thank him, right, for giving them therapy and for them trying in the first time. So how do you continue to build on that story rather than just being a moment in time, which I think we've done really well at in the past sort of big splash. But how do you continue? I tell the team, like, let's not just ride the wave.
Sarah Brooks:Let's create another swell.
Tom Fox:It's just such a natural fit too, which is why I think it's such a marketing success. You're not making this up. You're not forcing yourself in where you don't belong. You're actually providing a real service and a real need. So anybody have any questions?
Tom Fox:I'm getting to ask all the great questions and having the great conversation up here. Does anybody have any questions for Sarah? David Parle.
Speaker 6:First of all, congratulations on what you're doing with the score space. I think it really is exciting. This discussion about the online need. First of all, think that glass, in the very event, I'm glad it wasn't a sporting event.
Sarah Brooks:Yeah. No, they wouldn't have been as kind, would they? Isn't it true?
Speaker 6:But athletes are becoming great boys, I think, for the importance of mental health. That with Simone Biles saying in several Olympics ago, think was a seminal moment. But at the same time, there's this dries of hatred, the situation going on in the W or that had been going on, it was just slow, ridiculous.
Sarah Brooks:Right.
Speaker 6:Are you able to stay ahead of it? Because it feels kinda like a race. Can you get enough messaging out there? Now I know this isn't like a sports or a metrics question, but you think about it that way at all.
Sarah Brooks:I do. I think a lot about what do we do about it. Right? Because arguably, the people who need the therapy the most are the ones who are trolling online. Right?
Sarah Brooks:And so how do you have a message that really resonates with them? I think ultimately, what we wanna do is we wanna shift behavior. So we try to think about where are those moments where we can insert ourselves and say, like, actually, this isn't cool. Right? Like, this is why we're supporting this, and do that in a way where, you know, we are our mission is to champion the well-being in all of us.
Sarah Brooks:Right? So that's athletes and Internet trolls alike. Right? So I think it is about frequency of messaging. It's about where you position that messaging.
Sarah Brooks:And we do think a lot about how do we show up in communities who could need this the most.
Tom Fox:Having been called a wanker by 8,000 people in the Holt End at Villa Park simultaneously, maybe I just wish this had been available. I thought I dealt with it. I might need to get some free service.
Sarah Brooks:I have I have vouchers if you knew them.
Tom Fox:Well, my reaction at the time was that, a kid from the Western Suburbs Of Chicago, having his name chanted in any respect at the famous Holt Ended Villa Park was great. I just ignored the wanker part, which I'm sure is, I'm sure a therapist would encourage me to do that. Anybody else have question? Because I got a couple more. Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 4:Hi, Habib Elsie with JPMorgan. Nice to be in here. Given kind of the structure of the mental health business, who were your competitors? And obviously, Verizon, ew, digital, but like, given in person digital, kind of how do you assess that landscape and how do you make investments based on risk aspiration?
Sarah Brooks:Yeah. So, there are competitors who are doing online therapy as well. Right? And so we pay attention to them. We look at them.
Sarah Brooks:Mainly, they're ripping us off. Right? We're the leader. And so, I don't give that too much credence, but I do pay attention to where they show up in media, what dollar investment, what's the creative. Right?
Sarah Brooks:What's their business model? Is there anything I should be paying attention to? So the classic, competitive. Again, I do tend to think that it is stigma still. Right?
Sarah Brooks:And I think that that's our role. And again, we've been doing this for ten years. If you look at a lot of our creative, it really is a vulnerable, authentic voice saying, this is when I saw therapy for the first time. And so I do maintain that that's our number one competitor. I used to say this in every cat I've been fortunate to create a lot of categories in my career.
Sarah Brooks:Like, at The RealReal, I would say, which is an online luxury consignment, I would say like, well, our number one competitor is like Inertia. You have all these people who buy beautiful luxury products and keep them in their house instead of selling them back to us so that we can, you know, make them a little bit of cash and give them a new home. So I do think it's, we're creating that category and stigma is it.
Speaker 4:Like, the importance of each you, is there more con funradery is the right word. Is this like a high tide, let's
Speaker 6:all goats kind of feeling where you're
Speaker 4:just trying to empower your industry, be a person who view it as, you know, straight up.
Sarah Brooks:I think you see that, honestly. Like, again, we're coming from a leadership position, so I don't know if, like, our perceived competitors would say the same if they were sitting here. Right? But I definitely think people getting help is only good. I think, our service is differentiated and does work better, right, given that you can match with a provider or you can get to, to progress faster and that we're measuring those outcomes and, again, at the cutting edge of innovation.
Sarah Brooks:Yeah.
Tom Fox:Good question. Yes, sir. Paul.
Speaker 5:Paul from OS. You're coming out the messy teenage fakes.
Sarah Brooks:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Background being in performance, rusty, ruthless, AD testing, measuring everything. It it Also, because of the work your brand does, you're working this the three WT as the example, and one of those doesn't start forming to how you walk and then what your objectives are, do you still have to maintain that ruthlessness when your brand is obviously from the deception of your brand? That's it's a big risk as opposed to Yeah. Being a company. It's Yeah.
Speaker 5:That day you just chuck it, nobody's gonna worry. So you is there a level of commitment as your brands that maybe other brands don't has to be worried?
Sarah Brooks:Absolutely. And look, I think with brand versus performance, rapid iteration and testing is always something that comes up. That you can do more in digital and performance than you can in brand. I think that's a bit false. Right?
Sarah Brooks:You can measure brand. You can absolutely measure brand. You should be measuring brand. And we have for ages, right? So I think we're not a brand who does anything small.
Sarah Brooks:So as we say, we're gonna take some calculated bets. Yes, when they're very public and you do big announcements and you're sporting in the way like that you do with a sports team, you do have a certain level of commitment. So you need to do your due diligence and make sure that it's brand aligned and makes sense, and, and that should it not perform the way that you want, that you can, you know, have some wiggle room. So with all these teams, we signed two three year terms. We're in season one.
Sarah Brooks:We're figuring it out, right? When I got to BetterHelp, we didn't have a brand team. We hadn't run a campaign before. So we're figuring all of that out on our own as well on how best to amplify these partnerships. I don't view it though as pulling out entirely.
Sarah Brooks:I view it as, okay, we're almost we're going to, the playoffs and the finals now. Let's then let everybody take a deep breath. It's been an awesome season. We've done a lot very quickly. How do we then evaluate what's working, what's not?
Sarah Brooks:How do we refine it just like you would with Facebook ad? Right? How do we do that? Although on a different scale, how do we make investments during the off season? Do some tests, especially in digital.
Sarah Brooks:Do some tests so that with then we can have a better bigger, better year two.
Tom Fox:Taking your your BetterHelp hat off, as a successful marketer, you've spent your whole career working on very interesting businesses. What other brands out there are you following that you look at and think that's they've got that right or that's something that that I would have done had I been there? Who who else is out there? And it could be in any related category. I'm just curious.
Sarah Brooks:Yeah. The example I always use is Nike. Right? And I I know that, you're familiar with Nike. So I'll skip that one today, but I do think it's a good example of really strong brand building, right voices, always pushing on culture, like creating culture in a way, and then lost their way for a while.
Tom Fox:But all
Sarah Brooks:I
Tom Fox:can And now
Sarah Brooks:coming back. Right?
Tom Fox:So would you feel that way recently? Because the people that I know at Nike that were there when I was would argue they used to be that. They used to push the boundaries. Right? And that they haven't done as much of that lately.
Tom Fox:I haven't seen there I've seen a few iconic ads, but would you still say that about them? Have you seen some things recently?
Speaker 5:So I
Sarah Brooks:think they lost their way. Right? And then sort of backpedaled and said, actually, we wanna go back to our brand ethos. The new tag, that jury's still out. Right?
Sarah Brooks:I'm not sure if the positing the question of why do it is gonna resonate. I'm not sure. I'm watching it closely, though. Right? I'm not sure how I feel about it yet.
Sarah Brooks:One I will say, and this is, ironic because I'm wearing the ultra human right now, but I think Aura with their give us the finger campaign, that was a really smart campaign. And not only because it was a provocative tag, but because they knew the demographic that they were going after, an aging population. They did something that was so smart in a very meaningful way. I thought that was a great campaign. It was everywhere.
Sarah Brooks:Right? Omnichannel. I asked some of my team members who are much younger than you and I, what'd you think of the aura campaign? No one got it. Right?
Sarah Brooks:They were like, are they giving young people the finger? Are they giving I'm like, no. They're giving aging the finger. Right? But that, I thought, was an example of hyper targeted on their audience.
Sarah Brooks:And in a message that, to me, I was like, oh, yeah. That resonates. Right? So I thought that was a really great recent campaign.
Tom Fox:People always ask me when they see my aura ring, and they say, how do you like it? Yeah. And I I don't know if I change my behavior based on it. So I wake up every morning, and I either start the day super happy or super unhappy. I don't so how do you are you changing activity?
Tom Fox:Are you looking at the data and making adjustments?
Sarah Brooks:Only been using this maybe a month. I will say, there's something about measurement tracking data that I personally find really enticing. And so I do change behavior only if to see what happens to the measurement, to see if it's right. Right? So for example, girls' night, I'll have an extra glass of wine.
Sarah Brooks:I'll see what that does, and I'm like, I'm shocked to see what my ring tells me. I probably would know that the next morning anyway, right, but, you know, I do do like it.
Tom Fox:It tells me what I already knew. If I don't drink, I get a better night's sleep.
Sarah Brooks:There you go.
Tom Fox:If I'm not on my phone right before I go to bed, I get a better night's sleep. No, but it is interesting. I agree with you. The the idea that you're constantly measuring what's happening, and at least you're taking charge of what you just sort of took for granted before.
Sarah Brooks:Yeah. Exactly.
Tom Fox:Anybody else have a question with Sarah before I dab it up? Sir?
Speaker 5:Hi. I'm Andrew from GPJ. Thanks for being here. I've just one question just around I love the idea, the activation ideas around the doubly teens and tailoring those. Has it been any kind of emergence around that almost like service development, as in services that you can offer or provide that are tied directly to sports?
Speaker 5:Because it's you know to your point that is a mental health situation a lot of the people watching those sports are sports people themselves at varying levels and so there's almost an opportunity to sort of bring those two things together and say we can even tailor the offerings to support you as your own career as a sports person. Is that been an area of blood tap?
Sarah Brooks:Yeah. You're spot on. I think there's so much opportunity with our product today. Again, we've got this large pool of therapists. They have expertise in, you know, let's say that you're, an athlete and you're dealing with performance.
Sarah Brooks:Like, they have expertise there. We have specialists on the platform for that. We have not yet packaged, specific for these personas or types, but it's something that I'm definitely personally very invested in and interested in exploring. You know, I mentioned earlier, I'm a parent. I think that, working parents in particular, like there is a very distinct need from therapy that we can do a better job of packaging up.
Sarah Brooks:But it's something worth thinking about. Yeah. Yeah.
Tom Fox:We talked about it too. I wonder if there's another opportunity for you on the other side of sport, which really is, you know, if you're thinking about trolling this athlete, pause for a second. Call us instead or Right. You know, don't don't send the tweet. Reach out to us instead because there that's I it is a massive problem.
Tom Fox:Yeah. Everybody got their questions? Oh, Ian?
Speaker 5:Just have one little question. I suppose it's not necessarily marketed, but say it. I think there's a larger goal, I think, to normalize acceptance of having therapy. I think I would see stars particularly using industry as a whole has a much broader response for indeed to normalize the fact that therapists in therapy should be covered by medical insurance. For me personally, Connecticut, I gave up trying to find it
Speaker 4:in Noel, Like, this is a joke.
Speaker 5:Right? It's like $35,000 you're in health care, and you want to pay $600 an hour per breakfast.
Sarah Brooks:Right.
Speaker 5:And to your point, you ought to commit to this stuff for twelve weeks. So it's like, what better help this doing is not good. You're innovating the more broadly, so I can make money as visits. But do you think the wider industry have a much lower responsibility as well?
Sarah Brooks:Yeah. Yeah. It's an important question. I think my most important objective is normalizing therapy and making sure that people have access. The best way that I know how to do that today is focusing on our business, right, and saying, how do we make sure that this can be affordable as possible?
Sarah Brooks:So we're offering through health savings plans and flexible savings plans you can pay for BetterHelp. We're rolling out insurance in more states, although to your point, as you as you mentioned, that's a little bit, challenging in some cases. And so that's really where we try to focus is let's make sure that we identify that people should need help, identify that they could benefit from help, help them as they're looking for it, and then make it as accessible and as affordable as we can possibly. Yeah.
Tom Fox:I think it's it's a corollary to the health care system. Right? Our health care system is built on, you know, alleviating symptoms. They're not built on curing as many drugs that'll alleviate a symptom. Very few drugs on the television that are advertising actually cure the underlying disease, so being sick is a big business for the health care industry.
Tom Fox:I think it's probably a similar phenomenon. Hopefully, there'll be some progress there, so thank you for making the time to come in here. Thanks for trusting Talosman with your sponsorship business as well, and really fascinating conversation. So thanks again.
Sarah Brooks:Thank you. Thanks, everyone.
Speaker 1:We hope you enjoyed the chat and look forward to having you next time on the Playbook podcast.