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Life creates many in-between moments.
Whether those in-betweens create grief, sorrow, heartache, or pain, also know that joy, refinement, hope, and transformation are just around the corner.
Dinine Sig wants to accompany you in all of these in-between times–because she herself has seen many. The Space In-
Between is your opportunity to connect, refresh, and renew yourself. Dinine hosts conversations that will carry you through all of life’s significant moments–all of which will help you feel empowered, encouraged, and understood.
Remember, there is magic found in the in-betweens.
TSIB 2-3
Dinine: [00:00:00] Hi friends. I'm Deneen. I'm the host of this show, the Space In Between. I'm a mom, I'm an attorney, I'm an author, and I'm also a widow. We're gonna get into some really important stuff today, and I'm really grateful that you're here and you're gonna be sitting with us on this space in between. Hi everyone.
Thank you for joining us on this. Space in between. I am so happy to be here today. We are in Broad Ripple and I have my friend Lori here. I wanna introduce you all to Lori Bisser. She is a mom, a wife, a life coach, and yoga teacher. She aims to help women help, well, I should say, help exhausted women according to her website, like us, like me, reconnect, mind, body, and spirit.
To get moving in the direction of our dreams. Amen. Yeah. Amen. Lori just recently moved to South Carolina, [00:01:00] but prior to that she was in Indianapolis for how many years? 14 years. For 14 years. Where I had the really good fortune of meeting her. Lori came into my life right when I was in a period of change.
Some changes were known to me at the time. I knew I was had just moved to Indianapolis. I was embarking on what I thought was going to be a new and very long part of my life. There were other changes looming that I didn't know were coming that were somewhat traumatic and they had not yet been revealed.
I found Lori's yoga class to be a place of solace and her conversation to be a continual flowing. Source of support and energy. Aw. I just began gravitating towards her more and more. So I feel really grateful to have you here today to have Lori here today in the studio with us to sit on the space in between.
I heard. I love you, Lori. So I'm gonna say I love you too, Janine. Aw, thank you. I do love you, Lori, and I'm really grateful to have her on the [00:02:00] space in between to talk all things yoga and healing. So I'm just gonna dig in. And I'm gonna ask you, 'cause I've never asked you this question, what drew you to yoga?
Lori: So at one point, golly day, I don't even know what year it was right now, many moons ago, my sons were very small children and my life was sort of just falling apart in every way. Um, and I was looking for something to ground me to make, and I didn't know that word then, but to make me feel. Here because everything was so chaotic that I, all of my energy was spread out in a million directions.
So I rented a tape from the library when they still had, was it a VHS even? No, it wasn't a VHS, it was a DVD and, um, I almost died, um, because it was supposed to be a beginner yoga. Um. The video and I almost felt a smack on my face in eagle pose. If you know, eagle pose, it's probably not really a [00:03:00] beginner pose.
Uh, but anyway, so I didn't practice again for another six months and 'cause I was like, that's stupid and that's such a yogic thought. Right. Um. And so, uh, you know, about six months later I picked it up again with, uh, another 'cause I was trying to be really private about it, you know, group classes weren't my thing.
And, um, I rented another one from the library, so, you know, whatever. Um, it was super easy and it was great. It just. It was a complete different, um, vibe and it wa he was the right teacher. It was Rodney Yee, as a matter of fact, I'll give him a plug 'cause he deserves one. Um, and, and was
Dinine: that in Indianapolis?
Lori: That was in Arizona. So speaking of the space in between that portion of my life was definitely a literal and figurative desert. So it was very much a space in between. Um, and it gave me the space. Spaciousness. 'cause we had moved from Georgia where I also had a million friends to Arizona, the desert, um, where I really was inviting everyone to do everything that I ever [00:04:00] met and nothing was clicking.
It was very interesting. So I feel like the universe, God, you know, the powers that be took away a lot of the distractions from my life so that I could focus on what I really needed, which was to connect to myself and to know better who I am, and also to connect to the divine within. So can I ask you how old
Dinine: your kids were at the
Lori: time?
Yeah. You know, it's really bad because I really think I should have like a timeline of all of our moves tattooed on my arm, because this is like one of those moments I need to turn to my husband, Brad and be like, where, where were we? How were we? Um, wow. Yeah, so I believe it was about two, 2006, I wanna say.
That may be total. No, 2000. Yeah. Three. I don't know. It was a long time ago, so they were little. My boys are 27 and 24 now. But they were like in
Dinine: elementary or pre-K? pre-K
Lori: and elementary.
Dinine: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so you found yourself with some time during the day. Yeah. But not very many friends. When you say you were in that literal desert and looking for something some [00:05:00] way to.
Connect. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so you turned to yoga or tried
Lori: to, tried to at first and then it took, like I said, on that second try, I, I was a very religious person and so I really connected to God through religion and through prayer and through studies of the Bible, et cetera. At that point, that was great.
But it was, when you take away all these relationships with people, you have less places to find God. 'cause I see God in you. I see God in Anthony over there. I, you know, so. Then it was like I didn't know what, how to bounce off things. So long story short, as I started practicing yoga more and more on these little videos, I was just finding that I was creating and encountering the divine in me.
I was encountering the peace that is this deep well that exists inside all of us, and it shifted. Pretty much everything for me. And what was interesting too was, is then didn't have a million friends like I did, did in Indianapolis, or like I did in Georgia. But people started coming in. I started having some more friendships after I started to get [00:06:00] grounded within myself.
Dinine: So let's, so let's like explore that a little bit because this is a theme. I think that is, it came up last night, I was at a Gallatine day party, woo. And it came up where someone. I had listened to one of my shows and they reached out and they were like, Deneen, I can't believe like you're such an inspiration.
I can't believe how you just pulled yourself together and first you lost your husband and then you moved, and then you were alone. And I'm like, no, I didn't just pull myself together like on Instagram, like Snap, and you turned around and everything's great. I said, it almost killed me. Yeah. Slowly pulled myself together.
Mm-hmm. But what I learned, the biggest lesson for me was the love that I thought I lost, I had to find and give to myself. Mm-hmm. And it's a struggle. I think we all struggle with self-love. I think what you're describing in Arizona, I think yoga was your conduit to find [00:07:00] it. Um, you have a wonderful husband.
I've met him. I know that you're loved. I know that you're loved by your friends. Mm-hmm. You're loved by me. You know, I know that you have love, but you had to find your, your own self love. I know you have a good relationship with your dad like I do. Mm-hmm. Even if I don't know that relationship deeply, intimately, right?
Mm-hmm. I know the way we talk Yeah. About our dads, but you still have to find that self-love, so. I guess it's like a philosophical question. Is yoga a good conduit? And should everybody find their conduit for self-love despite having that amazing man or woman or great dad or, you know, all those things that some of us accumulate in life.
I guess I'm just sort of being philosophical here, right? Mm-hmm. Um. Think about it for a second.
Lori: So the question had a should in it. So it makes me as a life coach go, wait a minute.
Dinine: Oh, that's right. I'm [00:08:00] sorry for all my friends out there who are life coaches. I know I'm not supposed to, should do not should all over yourself.
Yes. Um, but Jason Barnaby would be freaking out right now too. We might
Lori: need to shift into the idea of, isn't that what life's all about is finding you inside of all of this. Right. And self-love is the best way to put it. Some people might think that that's too gooey and how, how does that even mean? You know, depending on what part of the path that they're on.
So, connecting to self might be for some of those people in a while. They're running or, you know, writing. I have, um, a son who, that's how he connects just through writing fiction. Um, so I feel like. Painting, cooking, singing, right? Yeah. There's so many ways to connect to the energy in in you, and I think that's love.
I think love is that energy that makes all of us up.
Dinine: What brings you up is always a reflection of self-love, whether it's, sometimes for me it's [00:09:00] blasting Van Halen in my car, right? Sometimes, but other times that could feel like chaos and I want it turned down and I put on jazz instead or something. But at times it feels like.
I'm connecting with my late brother and I raise that music up and I open the sunroof and I'm just bliss. It's pure bliss and I'm so happy. Yeah, so that feels like. Almost allowing him his spirit to love me for that moment. Mm. I love that. 'cause that's a shared, like, we loved Van Halen, so like that's a shared thing for the moment.
I remember telling a therapist like five years ago, I know we, we share this even though we've never talked about it. Love of the ocean. Hearing the waves my favorite. I was, um, while my husband was still alive, I was at an ocean front resort with my daughter. My son was playing a baseball tournament somewhere near Virginia Beach, and I made sure I had an ocean front room so I could get that piece.
And I remember telling her I was tossing and turning, listening to the waves, tossing and turning [00:10:00] tossing. It was not relaxing me. And I said to her the oddest thing, I got up and shut the slider because I didn't want to hear the waves crashing, and that has never happened to me before. She said you were in a zone where what caused you peace and calm.
Actually was creating turbulence for you, the turbulent nature of the water, which normally calms you and possibly a lot of people, right? Mm-hmm. That night and the next night also, I shut the slider once my kids fell asleep. I didn't want to hear the ocean crashing. I can't think of another period in my life where I wanted that, but those couple of nights in Virginia Beach, I still am searching for.
Why was that noise so turbulent for me? The same way at times, a Van Halen song might be, and that's another side of the coin that maybe might be another show to explore, but. The thing of getting back to this [00:11:00] self-love, I think it was self-love for me to get up and shut the door and not force the ocean on myself that night and go, well, you typically love the ocean, so leave that door open and toss and tone, turn till four in the morning.
Yeah.
Lori: You get to be organic. Isn't that cool? Like some things that we love every day, we don't always have to have them be the exact same way. Right. That's super
Dinine: interesting, I think, and that's about having autonomy too, right? When you're eight. You may not get that because your parents may be like, oh no, that door's staying or whatever there, this is what we do.
This is what, exactly. So that's just an interesting, I don't know that we're, I'm necessarily following exactly what we're supposed to be talking about or I know we don't wanna say should or supposed to be, but it was an interesting thing that just popped into my head, like, yeah, I love Van Halen and it turned it up and it's self-love.
But there were times where I'm like, no, don't want to hear that right now. Absolutely. Not very often, I'll be honest, but Absolutely. Yeah. Um, so. We're talking about like self-love. Mm-hmm. [00:12:00] On
Lori: Valentine's Day, by the way, on on Valentine's Day, which is the best day to talk about it, because there's. So many things right now in the world that are taking us away from anything that's even like calmness, like peace, like joy, like love, like, like love, compassion, like, you know, all the things that make us usually come together to connect to ourselves or to others.
And so here we are on Valentine's Day and the energy that everyone around us has. No, maybe not everyone, but the, you know how when there's, you know, it's French Friday on the calendar Yeah. And someone announces it. I'm positive more people go get french fries. Absolutely. Um, I definitely go get more french fries on that day, but I think that, or coffee day or pizza day all the day.
Yeah. And there's a day for everything. Um, so weirdly Google that. You will be surprised. Um, but Valentine's Day's the perfect day to talk about self-love and it's really cool that, um. In this space between concept, we can really think through [00:13:00] creating spaces between for ourselves, like in a yoga retreat, maybe.
Yeah. Yes. Or, or, or looking at when life has foisted it upon you. Yes. You know, and it's, and I'm living that now in South Carolina. Um. And slowly, but sure. Surely figuring that out. But it's interesting when so many layers of love, like my, because I became an empty nester at the same time. Um, I left all of my people in Indiana.
Yes. I want to,
Dinine: I wanna get to that at the same time. Yeah. So I wanted to sort of, um, I have a couple of other mm-hmm. Things. So I wanna sort of ask you, um, we were talking about, uh, self-love, but I wanna go a little bit. Does yoga have a potential for healing? Um, physical healing? And then I wanna sort of go into, um.
My own experience with emotional healing. And then I want to talk about a little bit of loneliness. Okay. Like I have [00:14:00] a little bit of a flow. Awesome. To get to this. Awesome. So do you think that yoga has a potential for physical healing?
Lori: Yes. And, and if you'd like to Google that, there's so many studies that have been done that show that almost every aspect of yoga.
Um, it has a healing component, so breath work plus Asana meditation. They're all healing modalities for like, things from, um, gastrointestinal issues, to high blood pressure, to anxiety, to depression, um, and beyond. There's even more, but I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna sell it like it's the, the a magic pill. I, I do feel like it does some weird, awesome things on top of that, like.
Multiplies your time, which doesn't make any sense. But when you have a, it's like one of those mystical things, like you're like, I feel like I'm connected to my brother listening to Van Halen. You know, uh, when you practice yoga, you can leave the mat and you think, oh, I didn't have time for that class. I shouldn't have done that thing.
But [00:15:00] then the day somehow stretches out in a different way. I think it might have something to do with just more clarity of thought, more clarity of action. Once we start really being intentional about a practice in yoga.
Dinine: Yeah, I, I think that's amazing that people who can control or have clarity, more clarity in their thoughts, seem to have better days.
Like they just seem to sort of be able to flow through their days, handle, um, surprises, maybe not good surprises, better. It's something I'm working towards all the time. So I believe in that we're, we're, so, I guess a, a. Supplemental question to that. Um, I know that your class helped me immensely. I couldn't take in it as often.
I couldn't take it as often as I wanted to, but it did help me, especially during some of my initial traumatic phase. Um. How do you believe that yoga, and I think you've answered this already, supports people with anxiety, [00:16:00] depression, PTSD? Sure, sure. So, um, I know you said breathing saunas, there's
Lori: Right, so when we practice yoga, the whole purpose is to yoke mind, body, and breath.
And, uh, I think it was agar that said, um. Is that a yogi? Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, gosh, I hope I'm quoting the right one. Yoga brings about the cessation of fluctuations in the mind, and what happens is, is when we focus deeply on breath and deeply on, you know, the sensations in our body as they come and ebb and flow, just like those waves in the ocean.
We have a more full experience of being human and we can answer, we can leave a little space before our reactions to a lot of things.
Dinine: And that's, I think, when you can control that, you really control your world.
Lori: Yeah. And you know, just even a simple tool, oh, there's a breath work tool that anxiety, depression, um, confusion, uh, you know, [00:17:00] one of those ugly surprises, you know, if, just take a moment and breathe.
It like you're breathing through a straw. So we breathe in really slowly, even through your nose or your mouth, and then blow it out the same way. And what happens is, is that we slow down our breath just enough that we balance our, our parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous systems in a way that calms the entire person.
So one simple tool, wow. Maybe we should try that again. Okay, I like that. So if everyone would take just a moment, but don't close your eyes. If you're driving, close your eyes and take a deep breath. Just a regular breath. And let it go. Now we'll draw in a deep breath through our nose and then purse your lips like you're blowing out through a straw and blow the breath out slowly.
There are many, many ways to slow down the breath. There's many, many ways to affect [00:18:00] this calming action, but if we simply remember slowing down the exhalation. That's the key. Um, and a lot of, a lot of people will just say, so breathe out slower than you did your inhalation. But if you push your lips with that, that just automatically kind of gets you there.
What
Dinine: a great, um, visual to keep in mind. Mm-hmm. Because I do always hear slow down your exhalation, but now I. You said that with the straw. Yeah, it was. I'm gonna remember that. Thank you. Yeah. I hope everyone who's listening really did that with us and I feel better. I hope you all feel better. Um, so for 2025, as you know, I think I talked about this with you on the phone the other day, I'm dedicating my show to exploring the loneliness epidemic across all different age groups.
Um, in some way I hope every show touches on it. So. I wanna talk about women in our age group. 45 to [00:19:00] 60. I know that, I know it affects other ages as well. I did a show on loneliness and seniors. Um, I'm gonna do college age kids. I'm gonna do all of it. Brilliant. Um, but there are people out there still raising children in our age group.
There are people out there getting ready to send them off to college or just sent them off, became empty nesters. Um, some of them are just looking around making a life change. For me, I was in that group, um, following the loss of my husband. Some of us are widows, some of us are divorcees. I met someone I thought I had found love, purchased a home, put my daughter in a, a beautiful private school here in Indianapolis.
I moved lock, stock and barrel across the country and very soon thereafter, quite literally found myself. A cliche, like a movie cliche, of completely being like left on a doorstep alone. [00:20:00] I was away from anyone who loved or cared about me. No real friends at that moment to speak of near me. No one to call in the middle of the night.
If I heard a sound, I could call someone far away, but no one to come over and check. Um, having a daughter that had to finish school. So I was stuck. It was. Close to the loneliest emotionally I've ever been. But physically, it was the least amount of human contact I think I've ever had with other humans in my entire life.
It was dysregulating and traumatic. It took multiple modalities for me to get over that monster of time, that monster of place, that monster of a person, I guess, being in my life. But for yourself when you've made a move across the country for many different reasons, not for anything that had to do with what I encountered.
Mm-hmm. But you found yourself recently [00:21:00] separated from humans that loved and cherished you, even though you were with someone who loved and cherished you, you mm-hmm. But from your, from your community, um, you're in a very happy and stable marriage to a wonderful man. He was pursuing a dream. You were pursuing it with him.
You moved to a beautiful town in South Carolina. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So for women or men who are out there and they're either downsizing or they've recently been divorced, or they're following their partner's dream, they're moving homes, they're moving maybe just across town or they're, you know, they're leaving something behind for whatever.
I've included a whole bunch of different, like I said, dysregulating and traumatic events to the happiest of events, but still could be dark. This is what my show's about. Right. There could be dark times in the brightest of things. Mm-hmm. And there could be, I. Dark times in the darkest of things, but you still have to find the light in both.
Um, there's loneliness there in all of it. [00:22:00] So I don't wanna speak for you, I want you to speak on this.
Let's talk about it. Let's talk about Lori's journey and let's talk about, um, maybe if you wanna bring your yoga practice into it at some point. Point, but just first in general, losing this beautiful community that loves you and cherishes you and brs so deeply starting over in South Carolina. I know you had to leave, your dad didn't have to leave your dad behind.
He chose Yeah, but your ki your kids, I know one of them moved to the state but didn't move mm-hmm. Near you. You know that that happens to all of us. They go to a school, they go to college, it happens. They grow up, they move out. That's no one told me. It's a horrible twist. I mean, a plot twist. What, so I don't know if you want me to, to dwindle that down further, or if is the question that you're asking, how do you do it?
Like how, when you first thought [00:23:00] about moving, I know that there was a lot of anxiety even though you were moving with this wonderful partner who was gonna support you. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then once you got there and you were living it every day. Yep. You were encountering some sort of loneliness because you had left this community behind.
Lori: Yeah. Yeah. So there's so many things that complicate these, these moves, right? And then we've done too many moves to count really at this point. And not to go down a rabbit hole, but as a life coach, I did a whole lot of pitching myself as a. A really good guide in reinventing yourself, and I feel like the in universe reached out and like slapped me across the face and said, oh, you want the master course in this baby?
So you know more than once. And so one of the best pieces of advice that I ever got, it happened when I moved to Indianapolis and I had a. Spiritual director at that point. And um, and that was from Arizona. She was in Georgia. I know, it's too complicated. Okay. Sorry. We went from Georgia to Arizona, back to Georgia to Arizona.
So it's like, yeah. What, [00:24:00] what the heck were we doing? You were ping ponging. We were ping ponging. Yes. Um, and then the ball started going all over the place, um, to other states. But um, she said, uh, and then again, I was very religious at the time and she said Brad was gonna be traveling that first week. She said, go to everything that's going on at your church.
Like pick a thing, like it could be for anybody else. It could be everything that's going on at your country club, everything that's going on at your pick. A social place where people, other people will be, pick a thing and just do everything that's going on there. And I did. And so Indianapolis was a dream, you know, even Georgia was, you know, it was, it was a little slower start.
I had one small child, you know. Uh, but that neighborhood, everyone was new. So I had like, it was easier 'cause everybody wanted to meet people, you know, I was in a new house. So each situation's been different. But I think the main thing is, is because yoga is a way to connect yourself and to know that you are great, you are awesome, you are powerful, you are all is well with you all the time, no matter what situation you're in.
Yeah. So it [00:25:00] gives you that groundedness, it gives you that rudder to move through the world,
Dinine: uh, wherever you are. So when you talk about yoga mm-hmm. In this way, my next question, and I think you've sort of touched on it. Is, how do you think loneliness manifests physically and does yoga address that tension?
Does a yoga practice. Help release that tension. Absolutely. So how
Lori: does
Dinine: loneliness, loneliness manifest? Manifest physically?
Lori: I think it's really interesting that you're asking this question because also as part of menopause, I would say it might manifest as weight loss or weight gain. It might manifest as sleeplessness.
It might manifest as, um. Just downright depression, which you can feel in your body, and I think that's another gift that yoga gives you, is that you start to be able to feel your feelings in laces. You know what I mean? Like you can, I can say to you, you're sad. Where are you feeling that now? What does it look like?
Getting up close and personal to [00:26:00] understand the things that we're feeling is another gift that comes through a deep yoga practice, a deep
Dinine: meditation practice as well. If you're. A person who's been either like Lori, chose to make this move Fullheartedly, but is now. Experiencing the loneliness of that move.
I'm kind of laughing
Lori: that you're saying full-heartedly because I tried so hard. You know, everybody would say to me, 'cause we knew for like a year or so before, a year and a half before I moved, oh Lord, this is gonna be so hard. And my first instinct is to be like, it'll be fine. It'll be fine. It's gonna be great.
You know, 'cause I, I, I'm typically a very positive person, but I know that once I actually got there, there was this anger. There was anger, and there was, you know. Sadness that, uh, you know, at my poor husband, he had to deal with all that and he's still dealing with it. God bless him. Um, I just feel like you, you don't, you can't program this stuff, you know, ahead of time how it's gonna come out.
You have to feel what you're feeling when you feel it. Or it's going to become one of those [00:27:00] monsters, like you spoke about before, because your feelings grow and you, we, we all need to find whatever modality it is to process that. And so I'm still figuring it out. You know, I've been there since June and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna sugarcoat this.
It has been, and I say bitch on the, on this. Yeah. It has been, I would say a lot more words if I knew I could say better words. You can say any words you want. It's a podcast. It has been, uh, yeah. Not, not fun, but. I'm getting to the place now where I'm reprogramming my own speech around this whole thing and my own self-talk around it.
Um, just, you know, build this life. You know, it's that simple. It's like, is what you're doing today gonna build this life? I was a few days, I didn't get outta bed till I. Very late. I hope my husband doesn't listen to this. 'cause he doesn't know that. But he will, he will listen. I mean, I may not know. Okay.
He'll listen. Wouldn't you listen if Brad was on a podcast? Absolutely. Okay. So, but no, I, I'm actually hopefully like coming outta the other side of some pretty serious depression right now. Um, hormones don't help but this move certainly, you [00:28:00] know, is, is, is a challenge. So again, build this life for me means.
Schedule things go out of the house. I'm an extrovert, ah, an extrovert who suddenly had, you know, I would say hundreds of people pulled out from under her who were communities of people here, you know, so, and not angry directly at Brad. Super happy for him. He loves his job. It's a fantastic company and I know that there's a bunch of friends in South Carolina waiting.
For me to be discovered. Yeah. And I'm just starting, I got with a little yure group last week. All my yure people know. That's awesome. Didn't, you know, that gives me life. Yeah. Because in yoga we remove competition, but in yure, we get it out
Dinine: in yure. Apparently. It's a, I just wish I knew how to play. I don't know.
I will teach you. I know. Um, Leah and I were, we have a joint friend named Leah, and I was like, I just wanna know how to play competently. She's like, Lori Bisser. And I'm like. Lori's not here. So I just wanna know how to play confidently and confidently. One day hopefully I'll learn, but something you said just flew in as soon as you brought [00:29:00] Yuka up.
All of my synapses fired. 'cause I'm like, I want to. But I think going through it, that is something that, again, this woman last night when she was complimenting me on like, look at you and you're so, and I'm like. I went through hell and I don't know that there was any other way to get through moving across the country starting anew.
You made a comment. You're an extrovert. I don't know anymore that I'm an extrovert. I know for sure I'm a pack animal. I know that I'm a pack animal. That's an interesting designation and I know that I probably. Wanna flow with the leader of the pack, I probably want that. Mm-hmm. So if you're an alpha, I probably wanna be an alpha with you.
Like that's prob probably, and sometimes I can go beta. I don't think that's bad either, but I've been thinking about that a lot. And there's probably some introverted parts of me too. I think an extrovert as well. But I don't know that I'm full on extrovert. 'cause [00:30:00] what I've noticed is. As you know, my niece has been battling a diagnosis.
Yes. A second diagnosis of cancer, and I've noticed that now it's more of a choice. When I'm in New York, I'm on all the time, and when I get back to Indiana, I want to, it's not that I'm forced to switch the off button because I'm a alone. Mm-hmm. And there's no one. I am looking for ways to flick the off button, which is odd, but then I'm like, I, I miss the pack.
I want the pack experience. Mm-hmm. I wanna be part of my own den or my own pack, so Right. Which is what's
Lori: really super cool about yoga because, so a yoga class in real time. Usually it's a lot of the same people come over and over and you become your own little community, whether you like it or not, whether you even speak to them or not.
There's an energy that happens, um, that you'll have to just experience yourself. If you're listening and you don't get what I'm talking about, it's not a creepy, weird thing. It's just like [00:31:00] there's so much love in the room and there's so much, um. We're there to seek peace and yaking this mind, body, spirit.
So that is peace. And so it fills the space.
Dinine: So I have a, a, a different question about that. Talking about what we were, we're sort of focusing on what's missing and how to grab it through yoga. Um, one time after my brother passed, my husband was diagnosed, my brother had already died. And I was really struggling and missing him immensely.
My brother, very opposite of my husband. My brother was larger than life in every way. The most alive person I've ever known, still 12 years later find it. Hard to believe at times he's gone. But I remember I was doing, what's this pose? I can't think of it. All of a sudden tree. Tree looks like tree where you balance.
And I always was able to do it 'cause I was. Frequently in class before three knee surgeries, and now I still struggle with it, but, um, couldn't do it that [00:32:00] day no matter what. Couldn't do it and went back two days later, couldn't do it. So after class, went over to the teacher and was like, what's going on?
Can't do it. Nothing's happened, nothing's different. He was like, sometimes your body is telling you that your life is out balance when you can't balance. And I was like, what? And he. I just was laughing at him. I didn't really get it. He was like, what's different about your life? And I kept saying nothing.
I have the same diet, I have the same this. And he was like, what's different about your life emotionally? And I was like, well, everything's the same. I mean, my brother died. I mean my brother died. Just that
Lori: little thing. But no, but it wasn't
Dinine: little to me, but I didn't think it would affect me. That's how disconnected I was.
Yeah. And he was like, your brother died when? And I said, about three months ago. And he was like, and how is that for you? And I was like, it's effing horrible. Yeah. Yeah. I wake up every day and I want to like kill someone. Mm-hmm. Like, I wanna throw a rock through a [00:33:00] window, like I'm angry as hell. And I, and he was like, okay, so your life is out of balance.
And I'm like, why? And he was like. 'cause your brother died and it was
Lori: so, it's interesting how much he had to say that to you for you to get it. Yeah. And it's true of so many people that we are so disconnected from our bodies. We're so disconnected from our experience and you know, what do they say? It's, we're not human beings.
We're having, you know, having this human experience. We are spiritual beings. We spiritual beings having a human experience. And so we need to feel what we feel when we feel it and we need to know. That it's okay. So being sad is okay. Being angry is okay. Um, we just have to like, take care of that emotion rather than probably killing someone or throwing a rock through a window.
You know, like Han uh, always said, um, hello, anger, hello my anger, I'm going to take care of you. And he actually teaches you [00:34:00] to see it as a small child and you're taking care of it. So it's part of you. And it's okay. You know,
Dinine: I used to have. A book of his quotes by my bedside. I don't know what happened to that book.
I had it in New York. I don't know what happened to it. So I am sort of trying to go to this next part of what's for me and my journey, right? I know that once I started really noticing what I loved about my life, even when I hated being in this town, there was a time that I hated being here. Mm-hmm. I was in a town, I didn't know anyone.
The only person I knew I hate, I really did hate. Mm-hmm. I was in a house that was really unfamiliar to me. I started to force myself to notice things and force myself to notice something I liked. Mm-hmm. So it started with my cardinals outside in my tree in the middle of winter. Your brother,
Lori: your husband?
Dinine: I think possibly, for sure. Probably. Um, I always thought my brother was a blue [00:35:00] jay, but he started possibly appearing as cardinals and. Started tweeting and talking to me. Mm. Um, and as I started to notice the cardinals, I started to notice there were no trees, no leaves on the trees. And then I started to notice my yard.
Really? Not a bad yard. Mm. And, um, little by little, you know, the grief would overtake me. The anger would overtake me that I'm stuck here. But then I would go back to noticing. My dog and how much I loved him and stopped taking him for granted, and I would notice how great my bed is. I have a really great bed.
I have a great bed in New York and Florida too, but I would notice my bed and then I started to notice people like you and how I liked being around you. I started doing things like that. So I know this is a big part of who you are every day, but, um, it helped me immensely to just start to bring in, it sounds so hokey, Lori, but I'm just gonna say it.
The gratitude. Oh my gosh. It's, you think gratitude is No, no. Hokey. It's not [00:36:00] hokey. It sounds hokey and like everybody talks like, I just don't wanna do this. Retread of a retread of a retread. Gratitude, are you referring to my
Lori: cat Podcast? Gratitude sandwich. So my point, I guess in saying and poking fun at you back is I feel like so many things in life, the answers are so simple, and, and so it can, it can sound hokey, it can sound whatever it wants to sound, but the truth is, uh, it, did it make you feel better?
It did. Did it put
Dinine: you on a path to healing? So it put, this is what I'm gonna say. It wasn't easy. And like I was telling that girl last night, it was baby steps. 'cause the anger was so much stronger and more powerful and the sadness, which I think is always anger turned inside out, was more stronger. And, and Taylor Swift, the miracle move on drugs, did nothing.
So I got off the, like nothing Mel Robbins with the drinking that didn't like nothing. After a while it was me taking me. Out of it and me loving [00:37:00] me. So I want, this is my question for you. I know that gratitude's your thing, it's how did gratitude or how does gratitude help? Oh my God, guys, she's got a shirt.
She just opened up her sweater. She's got a shirt that says gratitude. It literally says it. It's one of 10 and it. So my next question queued up is, what role does gratitude play in healing from loneliness and how can yoga, 'cause I was trying to get to gratitude helped me heal, but I don't wanna, I don't want it to be hokey in that, hey, if you're down and your house just burned down, oh, just be thankful.
Like that's what I was trying to, that's why I was hundred percent. Going deep here, and I'm sorry if I took too long. No, no, I don't, I just don't wanna Your podcast. I'm bury, what'd you say? I said it's your podcast. Right. But I don't wanna, I just, I'm, I didn't wanna bury the lead, but the lead is. Mm-hmm. I don't wanna be toxically positive.
Lori: Absolutely. And there's that I, you know, circumventing your own [00:38:00] emotions by doing so. Right. Um,
Dinine: so how does grad, what role does gratitude play in loneliness and how can yoga support that proc, even when someone is. Miserably miserable. That's the part I wanted to really chime in here a hundred percent.
There are people out there really suffering right now, so what can we tell them
Lori: right now? We can tell them to not shortcut their emotions. I. So it's sort of like what happened to you at the party. I'm sure the girl who was talking to you was lovely when she said, oh look what you're doing. It's so great.
You like discounting the path. And I don't mean to get all holy Rolly or biblical here 'cause I'm not, but St. Paul is a really good, um, example of that. So, you know the story. He got knocked off a horse, you know, he was like, this dude who's like killing all the Christians and he's. Not a good guy and he gets knocked off a horse and, um, blinded and I bet everybody listening is like, yeah.
And then he was a great guy and he was doing these great things. Well, I think if you do the study, it's about four years before he was actually out preaching or doing [00:39:00] anything. So the story always looks like, yeah, and then he turned on a dime. Well, that's not how humans work, you know? So it took him four years, I think it was three to four years for him to turn around and become.
This, you know, person who was imprisoned for, you know, his beliefs and this person who was speaking up about who Jesus Christ was. You know? So none of us can shortcut people's struggles. And I think that's one of the things I love so many people in my life, and I'm not gonna name names, but you know who you are, um, that when I'm going through this in the last few months.
Oh, but you've got this and, but you've got that coming up and, but, and I, I wanted to like, you wanted to punch somebody, I. Shut up because I have to be in what I'm in when
Dinine: I'm, don't bother fixing me. But where is that? Let's dive into that too. Yeah. Where is that line? Because when someone's in a dark time mm-hmm.
Even me. Yeah. I wanna find something good to tell you about. Yeah. Like, you have this amazing husband. Mm-hmm. And those of us who've lost one. Right. We wanna remind you, it's like being a, a child of divorce. Mm-hmm. [00:40:00] I always used to tell my friends. You don't know what that brings, that stability that brings, because you've never lost it.
Mm-hmm. When you grew up as a kid of divorce, you look at kids who have two parents, even if they're not the happiest. Right. If they're committed to each other. When you have one parent off with another woman and one parent, it brings an instability. Yeah. I don't care how much money, time, or whatever those parents have.
Mm-hmm. When there is one person making that parent look the other way. It brings instability.
Lori: Yeah. And so there's all kinds of instability in our childhood. Then we could pick that apart on a whole nother day. But I think what's. Challenging is just that same feeling you had with the girl at the party.
Don't circumvent what I'm going through or what I went through, or be
Dinine: lit or make it smaller. Does it feel like that? If someone says, you have this amazing support in your husband? No, it's a differe because I would never wanna do that. It's difference.
Lori: No, there's a difference between that and being like what you were talking about before, about skipping over what's actually happening, you know, like pretending I'm [00:41:00] just gonna be grateful.
I feel like. Ass, but I'm just gonna be grateful. Right? I, you know, I can't get outta bed, but I'm just gonna be grateful that I have a bed. Right? And which, and the truth is, is yes, that's, that's what winds up getting you through it. But you can't force feed that to anyone because Yeah, there's, clinical depression is different.
You know, this is different. I'm talking, there's a line, right? There's a line sadness. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so I, I think. Taking care of yourself, taking care of your pain, taking care of your fear, taking care of your depression, taking care of your anger, taking care of what's here, and being honest about it. If you can turn towards a lot of these feelings, I.
Say like what Han says, I see you. My sadness. My loneliness. I'm going to take care
Dinine: of you. So what would a good friend say to you instead of saying, but you
Lori: have this coming up. You brought it up in a recent podcast, so and so, one of your friends, I didn't catch your name, came over. She just came to you, like brought you soup.
Was this you, wasn't this you? [00:42:00] Um, or like, didn't one of your friends just come to you and take care of you or
Dinine: you said, oh, yes. My friend
Lori: Kelly.
Dinine: Yeah. Yeah. She came and brought me, I've met her. That makes sense. Yeah. She brought me chicken and rice. Yeah. And then she brought me, she's a doctor. Yeah. So she brought me a Z-pack.
Lori: Well, there you go. So the the point is, is that be there, be there on the phone, listen and be there in person if you can. And just show up. If they tell you to get out, get out. But just let them know that you're there. I have a friend. Here in India at one point, I literally was like the goofball down on the steps of her house throwing rocks at her window.
'cause I wanted her to get out of bed and I wanted her to come play with me. That's beautiful. You know, come play with me. Take a walk with me. That is so beautiful. Yeah. So my, my thing is, is. When you don't have those physical people to be there, the closest thing is a phone call. The closest thing is a letter.
Oh my God, I got so many great cards from a lot of people and all the ones that I got at the going away party, I kind of open like a box of chocolates over time so that it would help carry me through. So yeah, I, it's being there letting people have the feelings that they [00:43:00] have un seeing, watching for red flags, obviously,
Dinine: but being there.
Yeah. So where can our listeners find you or a supportive yoga community if they're not in South Carolina near you? So I know that it's sanctuary yoga, but do you wanna give the, we're gonna have it in the show notes, but go ahead. Yeah. So I am,
Lori: you can find me@loribisser.com or sanctuary yoga.com. Same.
Same. And I think where people can find a supportive yoga community is by going to a class. And seeing how it feels, then going to another class and seeing how it feels. Because there's the vibe of, and the energy of a yoga practice are completely different. And even the, the definitions of a vinyas haha vinyasa class or definitions of a slow flow class can be completely different in, I just experienced this in South Carolina as opposed to Indianapolis.
So you have to go and see what it feels like physically, and you have to start just exploring, yeah, experiencing it, feeling it, be again, just like that friend, be present, be, be present to it. Keep [00:44:00] looking just like you would for a therapist. If you go to a therapist and you don't like them, you don't go back.
You go to a different therapist. Amen. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Dinine: And I just wanna let all the listeners know that Lori and I are gonna be doing my first ever retreat. She's an old hand at these retreats, but it's gonna be the first sanctuary yoga space in between retreat. So look for more details@danenesig.com and sanctuary yoga.com or lori bisser.com and more details to come guys.
Thank you so much, Lori Bisser. Yay. And thank you for all of you for sitting with us on the space in between. Thank you so much for joining me today. Remember that even in your worst days, there is always something beautiful. You just need to look for it. Until next time.