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Leader Dogs for the Blind empowers people who are blind or visually impaired with the tools for safe and independent daily travel. Our goal is to educate, advocate, and share real life experiences of those with blindness. Come learn, laugh, and grow with us.
Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Christina Hepner with my co-host Leslie Hoskins. While Timothy is off, enjoying a nice little vacation. Speaking of vacations, except for you haven't really been on vacations, Leslie, you we're a little Mia for a little bit.
and then you're gonna be a little m AA again. I know, I'm so sorry. Uh, and I should thank both Christina and Timothy and Alyssa for covering, uh, the podcast while I've been out. Yeah, we've been all over the place. I did have a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff going on in January, both. Uh, work and personal life and all of that.
So I was out quite a bit and Alyssa has seamlessly jumped in. Oh my gosh. I've been listening to those episodes and they're fabulous. She's done a great job. Um, so I'm so thankful to have her on the team and have her as a backup. But yeah. So now Timothy's gone today. Yeah. , you know, I am the only consistent thing.
You really are homeless together, right? Wow. I'm like, am I ever [00:01:00] gonna be able to go on vacation? Absolutely not. , right? Absolutely not. Thank you for asking. You know, At least I don't, well, the only thing I have planned is next fall. So because I had, like, I had so much last year with weddings and. All the things, like I turned 30, so of course I celebrated way too much, like did trips for that.
Um, so this year I'm taking it easy. Like, I mean, in my defense a lot of my trips are work related Sure. quote unquote giving me here, but they are work conferences. They just, some of them have to be, happen to be in wonderful destinations. I can't help. Yeah. When Leslie starts filling out things like for Hawaii, and Florida and Right.
A European tour soon, right. Coming up . I'm like, what are you doing for work there? Oh, there's a conference . If it makes you feel any better, I, uh, was just recently in Chicago and [00:02:00] it was quite cold, so if that, Any, anything good for you there? No. Okay. No. Her facial obsession is telling me, Nope, that still is not working.
Anyways, my point being, thank you, Christina . You're welcome for holding it together for all of us, and thank you Timothy for being so flexible. Truly. He is always available. Um, so we're happy to give him a couple of days. I'm here to go enjoy himself and uh, have a wonderful vacation with his wife, Cheryl.
Yeah. Um, and of course Alyssa truly like her expertise is so beneficial to this podcast too. Yes. Her background in Guide Dog mobility, uh, instruction. So happy. It really is to have this team. Yes. Cause I would definitely need somebody with expertise because I don't have. I really don't, and Alyssa and I got too much.
I'm just kidding. . Yeah, we're full of my just expertise are not in that field. That's true. You have a lot of expertise. Just, they're just in other areas and we need you because we need all those questions. Yes, all the questions. , it's a good team. We're having a lot of [00:03:00] fun and super thankful that we're con, you know, able to continue to do this podcast.
Yes. Awesome. Well, speaking of the podcast, I guess we should probably jump right into it with our guest. Who is a leader dog client who was recently here on Leader Dog Campus and happened to share his journey on social media about his entire experience while on campus. Yes. It was really cool to see. We shared it on our blog as well.
And Joy Johnson is from Augusta, Georgia and has retinitis pigmentosa. He was diagnosed at age 30 and has four. A field of vision remaining. And um, of course he recently came to Leader Dog and he has Leader Dog Tucker, which I love that name. That's a cute name. Joey, thank you so much for joining us today.
Do you mind telling us a little bit about how you found Leader Dog and got started ? Okay,
Joey: sure. I'll try to keep this short because it wasn't, it wasn't an easy process cuz I had never heard of it. Yeah. Um. So it took some convincing because a, [00:04:00] a lot, a lot of blind people, I pretended I wasn't blind forever, um, until it became abundantly obvious I needed to quit putting myself in danger, as in driving and going places alone.
So anyway, I resisted the cane. Sorry, Leslie . God,
Christina: starting off strong, Joey
Joey: and, and I know well, and, and. . So Pickleball Champion was my, um, instructor. Oh my. So I know he won't be offended, but anyway, I thought there was a stigma attached. I had to get over that. So I was like, well, let's just get a dog. Um, well, you don't just go get a dog.
Um, so I, I searched Guy Dogs. Um, another place came up, I guess geographically closer. Mm-hmm. . Um, and then there was applications that you had o and m training. Well, of course, I didn't know what o and m training even was. So I reached out to a local rehab facility. Uh, it was during Covid, which made it even more difficult.
Uh, they could give me o and m training, [00:05:00] but I had to pay for it. And it would've been like an hour one day, maybe another week I'd get another hour. And so they had a gentleman call me. Um, He was just an advocate for the blind, I guess, and he told me, no, no, no co-leader dog. Um, and I wish I knew his name so I could thank him.
Yeah. Um, but unfortunately I don't. So I, I found your website and then that's where the journey started. Um, went up there, worked with Lynn. He was amazing. Um, and fell in love with, uh, the dog that I got to put my hands, uh, on the last day. wanted to come back and get a dog. Ah, that's awesome. Um, that's pretty much how I found Leader Dog.
And, um, I'd, I'd go back in a minute, but it's, you know, I've got Tucker now. I'll be
Christina: back for a while. . So you worked with Lynn Goro. He is one of our, um, o and m specialists who we contract with. So he actually lives in Louisiana and he flies up to work with clients on a weekly basis. [00:06:00] He's absolutely wonderful.
He was one of my mentors as well, and my first experience with Leader Dog was with Lynn, uh, during my practicum. So Very cool. And I love that you said that so, Somebody who just called you who was a blind advocate and recommended us. That's so exciting to hear.
Joey: Yes, he was. He actually had rp but he was totally blind.
And, um, you know, I, I told him about the cane and I didn't want people looking at me and this, that, and the other. And he is like, well, can you see him? Well? I, well, no. Then what are you worried about? I was like, well, you know what? I, you've put it so bluntly, but you're right. What am I worried about? So I, it was more of a personal battle of accepting, um, my condition mm-hmm.
and, and moving past it. And, and it, uh, it hasn't been an issue at all. Um, and it actually opened up a lot of doors, so it was probably the best thing I ever did.
Christina: That's, . So you came and spent a week with Leader Dog, and then you also mentioned getting your hands on a dog. So sometimes during that week of o and m on the last [00:07:00] day of o and m, if a client is interested in a guide dog, if it makes sense, we will do, um, a dog walk, basically.
So we'll let somebody or clients who or potentially interested, walk with a guide dog just to give them an idea. It's not realistic joy. I would actually be really interested in your experience walking with, in that walk and then having your first walk with Tucker. Okay. Um, because we try to make it a very nice and smooth walk so you get an idea of just what it's feeling like if everything's going well.
But it's not always super, super realistic. Right. When you get your first, your real guide dog. Yeah. Um,
Joey: there, the difference is of course she was a female, uh, on the trial run when I was there for, and so she was a little smaller. Tucker, uh, wants to win the Iditarod and he's. He's a, he's a puller, and so you have to be really careful what you ask for.
Mm-hmm. . But I, I walk a lot, I walk fast. Um, and so they, they matched me and they matched me perfectly. Um, I wouldn't trade him for anything. [00:08:00] Uh, I'm not sure if my G D m I, Mary, uh, Skillman was the lone decider, but she, she, she matched me very well. Um, so it was different because he's much bigger than the, the dog I had for, uh, o and m.
Christina: That's really interesting to hear. And uh, Joey, you just, you let us share it on our blog as well, which thank you for that. Um, we've got a lot of great feedback on you sharing your day-to-day journey. So what prompted you, because a lot of people wonder, okay, I'm at Leader Docg for three weeks. What is a day-to-day?
And you shared that, um, for, you know, essentially the world to see what was, what prompted you to wanna start sharing, you know, every day that you were there. The good, the bad, you know, cuz it's not all roses, it's a lot of hard work and there's a lot of emotions that go with
Joey: it. Well, it's my, one quick word.
My wife, uh, I guess that's more than one word. . So [00:09:00] we, we , sorry, math. Um, , we share everything. I mean, we've been together 29 years and so she's been with me on this journey from, um, you know, when we first got together to realizing I'm going blind. That she's been supportive and honest. We've never been apart that long.
So if we're gonna share everything I needed to share that with her. Uh, you know, this dog was for me, but he is, he's a family member, so she needed to be as, as much of a part of it as possible. And then, uh, on another note, it kept me from texting and calling every single person. Well, what'd you do today?
What'd you do? Well, you know, I can just knock this out with one post, uh, every. And of course we still talked on the phone. She still had a hundred other questions, uh, which was fine. Um, and then it, it turned into a little bit bigger because I, I started hearing. Well, when's he gonna make his next update?
When's he gonna [00:10:00] let us know what happened today? But, you know, we would, we would be working late. There would be a night walk or a seminar. So I'm like, well, I won't, I won't update my day until I'm done. And so I, that's when I started realizing, geez, people like this. So it was really fun. It really
Christina: was. I love that.
That's how it started. My wife, . You've got Christina, actually a little emotional over here. You're pulling on her heartstrings today. It's not me for one. I know, I know.
Joey: It's just he's my best friend. Then we have to share everything.
Christina: I love that. I totally get it. I, I would feel the same way. Um, I think that's absolutely wonderful and, and such a great way.
So I have to ask, before you started posting your leader on experience, were you big on social media? Were you posting a lot or is this just you were like, you know what, this is the easiest way to. I,
Joey: I literally, you know, well, I shared stuff about now people wonder if I still have kids . Um, um, but he doesn't give him as much [00:11:00] grief as they do
I'm just kidding. Um, no, I, you know, we, social media is about family and we would post little, you know, things about the kids or, or whatever, or my wife would post to everything we have for dinner , but never really nothing big. Um, sports stuff. This was the first thing. I don't know why it popped in my head.
You know, why don't I do a little blog? I, I don't know why that idea popped in my head, but I just thought it would be the easiest way to do it. And I really did not know that by thing. I was at Leader Dog that everyone at Leader Dog would know. Um, and then I found out, gee, they're, they're seeing this. I hope I'm, I'm not gonna be in some kind of trouble giving away trade secrets or something.
Um, no, not at all. No, that, that, That, that's just how it happened. I, I, it just was the easiest way for me to update what was going on. I thought, well, I
Christina: have to tell you that I heard from a client recently who suggested you as a podcast guest, and I was so excited to be like, oh, we already have them scheduled.
[00:12:00] Cause they were wondering, oh wow. Like an. Update. They're like, well, when is, how are things going? Like what's the update? What's going on? And I was like, oh, this is so great cuz we've got 'em scheduled. So please inquiring minds need to know how is it going since you've gotten home with Tucker. .
Joey: Well, it hasn't been all, uh, ups.
Yeah. And that's the same as in class. And I think people need to understand that, that, you know, you're getting three weeks of training. Um, and the hard part is learning that the dog already knows what to do. They're, they're training you. So it's a lot to learn in three weeks. Um, so when you come. , you know, one Tucker has already had a couple owners, he's had his puppy razor that he's had his trainer, and now it's kinda like an arranged marriage.
They're like, here go with this person, . So, you know, we have to figure each other out. And so there have been struggles where I thought, gee, I don't know. He, he acts like he doesn't wanna work, he doesn't want to do this. And Leader Dog is so supportive and you know, [00:13:00] they call and check on you or tell you, look, if you have any issues, email us.
We'll call you. And every. , someone does call and, and I had to be reminded. Look, do, do you want to go to work every day? Well, not really . Well, sometimes, sometimes they don't. You know, they're not as enthused as you think they should be, and that's normal. So it takes some, it's taken some time to. Figure each other out.
But we've gotten a lot better as a team and I still enjoy sharing that. Um, mainly now it's not really to update my wife or anybody cuz I'm home, but I figure now the more I can show the, if one more person sees one of these wonderful dogs working, that's one more person that might be informed about what they do and uh, maybe can educate themselves more on, you know, blindness.
Etiquette with Guy Dogs, anything. Just try to do my little part to help spread, [00:14:00] spread the news about, about Leader Dog.
Christina: Yeah. Well that's amazing and I love that you said. Like an arranged marriage. Yeah. Because you know, you're meeting in three weeks time, you're taking that dog home and Yeah. You know that dog doesn't know your environment at home and you know, your family has to meet the dog as well cuz that dog is gonna live with you and your family.
So it, it is it. Truly is. I love that you said that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna quote you and I'm gonna use that. I think so too. I thought that was wonderful and I love what you said about, you know. Yeah, of course. We don't wanna go to work every day is, I mean, not Christina and I, of course, we love coming to work every day.
We're our job. We've never had that feeling before, but I'm sure it's relatable for others. Um, But what a good point, right? . Like there are those days where you would just wake up and you're like, I don't wanna do this today. I'd rather go to lay and take a nap. So what a great perspective you've given us here, Joey.
Joey: Well, yeah. And had to figure out, okay, what do I do to [00:15:00] get him to, to, to get in, get into gear? So, you know, my, my instructors worked me through it was like, well try this for a little while. And, and we've, it, those issues have started to work themselves out to where he's like, okay, let's just do it man.
Let's just go. And, um, it's just gotten smoother and they, and they tell you before you leave, this could take six months to 12 months, um, to, to work out. And there are, um, you know, sad instances I'm sure where it, it just doesn't work out. Yeah. And I, I know those are rare. Uh, so you just have to. That's why they stress when you get home, stay busy, get working, because the more you work together, the quicker and better you'll be as a team.
Um, and I, and I firmly believe that.
Christina: See, now all I can think about is relating it to like a relationship. . Well it is, right? Yeah. It's, it's, yeah. Just like getting to know the dog. And Is your wife jealous of Tucker? Cuz I would be jealous. I like Brian's full a [00:16:00] all the time. I think I'm start,
Joey: I think I'm jealous of her.
He likes the girls. Oh, he, he, yeah. He, you know, when I, I put in a blog about his affection for Mary, our trainer, . Um, and it was really kind of bittersweet. It had to be hard, you know, they, they do a fabulous job of trying to. I guess keep their heart, their feelings out of a, a dog. I don't know how they do that, um, when they know the dog really likes them.
Um, and so it was really hard watching him not really crawl away from her, but not pay as much attention to her. And pay more attention to me. And that has, it has to be hard. I would think it'd be hard because a dog can catch your heart within a matter of days. Um, so to watch your dog leave every time I, I don't know how these trainers do it, but they, they do a fabulous job.
Christina: Yes. And that is why I don't do it. It's such a good point
Joey: though, how a puppy razor keep, how a puppy razor keeps him for [00:17:00] a year. And that's, It's a, it's just, uh, they, they don't get applauded enough for what they do.
Christina: Very true. And, and the trainers too, right? But it's, it's all about that in journey, right?
Like they keep doing what they're doing because they're seeing your success and your independence when you're out with Tucker. But yeah, I think you, you know, nailed it with, um, Guy, dog mobility instructors, right? Like they love these dogs and it is so sad to see them turn over to their new person. But on the flip side, that is like their also proudest moment too, right?
So I can't imagine doing that. You know, I believe it or not, am not emotionally attached to the long white cane, as some may believe. . Oh, really? I mean, I, I'm delighted every time I send one out the door with a new client, couldn't be happier. I think though Leslie would have rather have one that's all beat up.
Like I love, you know, I love a beat up cane. Yeah. I love
Joey: a beat up cane. And not to just talk about, and not to just talk about the dog. I will say that when I, I got back with my cane and I never used my cane. before I went to [00:18:00] leader drawing, I didn't want to teach myself any bad habits or anything, so I, uh, but I did watch a lot of videos.
I, I, I, I did watch stuff and try to educate myself. Um, and then Lynn just works really well. I don't, uh, he's really good at what he does, and so, Even reminded he, he got, he, excuse me, he would forget that I had never used a cane. He's like, yeah, I'm sorry I, you're just really good at it. But I have a little usable vision, so I was able to watch traffic a little more, so I.
But once I got home with a cane, I started going places that I haven't been going without the cane. So even with just the cane, it was so liberating to finally do things that I hadn't been doing because without the cane, it was quite hazardous to to do some of the things I was doing. So I had to limit where I could go, and so, When you go to Lit Dog and you either get a cane or you go back and get a dog, the point is for you to be more independent [00:19:00] than you were.
And so I'm like, well, if I've got the cane, I need to, I need to use it. That's the whole point of this. So the first time crossing a road or going in a store by myself for the first time, uh, was almost emotion. You know, it, it seems silly to someone that's fully sighted, but when you can't shop by yourself, you know, it, it's, it's hard to deal with.
And I was like, you know what, I'm gonna do this. And, um, it was just a wonderful feeling. So even if you don't go for a dog and, and you get the cane, it opens up a lot of doors. It really does. Leslie
Christina: is smiling like ear to ear right now. She is loving what you're saying, but it is true because you have to have that orientation and mobility in order to, you have to, yeah.
Have a dog and to be able to go out. Yeah.
Joey: Go ahead. If something happens to your dog, uh, you need the cane, you gotta get home. So God forbid something happens, um, or somehow you got [00:20:00] lost. I mean, your cane can still help you get home, so you can't forget those skills and you need to bra. So when we go walking, um, If I'm just walking in the neighborhood, I don't, I do lead, I do leave Moses at home.
Um, but if we go for a long walk, the cane comes with us. Um, because you never know what could happen. And, and that's gonna be my navigational tool to get back home. So, um, he's not forgotten. Leslie . .
Christina: I absolutely love that. And it's so important. And the more I think we can say that, the better because it's one mobility tool or the other.
Right? And if one shuts down, you need the other to stand by or vice versa. But you can't do one without the other really. Um, and I just think that's so important. I love it. Well,
Joey: sometimes you gotta use both. Cuz if we're learning a new route, I need to have my cane and, and, and, and you heal the dog beside you and, and walk the route.
So he learns where he's going. Yeah. Sometimes you, sometimes you use both the cane and the dog.
Christina: Yeah. That's awesome. And Joey, you said you didn't [00:21:00] know what orientation mobility was, so it's even more important to talk about. I had no clue.
Joey: Yeah. . I had no clue. And, and you know, I guess more people would know, witness it's king training.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, but I guess the professional term is orientation and mobility. So, you know, I had to Google it. Mm-hmm. , I was like, what is that? Um, and unfortunately just our state just doesn't have anything. Um, I, I think they have it if you're 55 or older, from what I was told, uh, it's free. Mm-hmm. , but I was like, I don't wanna wait till I'm 51 if I gotta wait till I'm 55 to, to get more independent.
That's. Yeah. Um, so fortunately y'all were there to, um, facilitate. It's so hard your time in my life.
Christina: Yeah. States are struggling and it's not that they don't wanna provide these services, you know, they have lack of resources, lack of funding, lack of instructors. There are not a lot of. Certified orientation mobility specialists out there and when they are, they're covering such wide territory.
So they're spending a lot of their [00:22:00] days driving back and forth to clients to spend, you know, an hour here, an hour there. And that's really why the leader dog o and m program even started, right, is cuz clients were coming in, applying for a guide dog. We'd say, Hey, you don't have the skills. Go home, get some o and m and come back.
And they'd never come back cuz they couldn't get the, the skills, they couldn't get the training. So I'm so happy that you found that blind advocate and you heard about us because people
Joey: don't know. It's funny you say that because you know, when I got home I wanted to thank, um, the local rehab facility for just starting this whole process.
Yeah. And so, so like anything you can, I can do to kind of pay. If you need me to talk to someone, if you need me to do anything to explain o and m or explain what Leader Dog does, please share my information. Let me talk to them. And so they ended up calling me, as a matter of fact, it was just a couple weeks ago, and they, they had the information wrong.
They called me and said, we understand you do o and m training. I'm like, uh, no. Uh, I'm legally blind. You don't want me. Um, [00:23:00] so, but what they had is they had a client in South Carolina. Wanted a guy had a guy dog before, but must have had it a long time ago cuz he had never had o and m training and now he needs o and m training.
He can't get one. Um, but he doesn't want to travel, so he doesn't know how to get o and m training. I was like, well, leader Dog will come to you. , um, he doesn't necessarily have to travel. So I spoke with Barry. Mm-hmm. , uh, the other o and m and Fred, uh, who was there when I was with Lynn. Mm-hmm. . Um, and he's, you know, he said, just call, tell them to fill application and, and if the, maybe we can get to him.
So I don't know if people who don't realize that they don't have to technically go to Michigan. If, if things work out, you know, you might have to wait longer, I'm sure, uh, to get on schedule. But leave, your dog will come to you and work with you at
Christina: home. Yeah. That's something new that we're super excited to be able to offer, cuz you're right, there's a lot of reasons why people can't come to our [00:24:00] campus, whether it be medical conditions or responsibilities at work or at home, or just.
Really lack of confidence to get on the plane and come, you know, we totally understand that. And so we do now have Barry, who is our o and m field rep, if you will, and he is flying all over the country, um, and Canada even to help people with o and m in their home environment, which is awesome. It's super exciting to be able to offer that
Joey: something might be scared of the airport.
I mean, I was nervous the first time. Yeah. Uh, because it's a crowded, hectic place and when you can't see or see very little, it's. So I, I could see the anxiety of someone going, I, I, I, I don't wanna do it. I don't wanna go. I mean, there's people that are fully cited that don't wanna fly. Absolutely. Um, I, I can see where someone just can't get over that fear and, and, and doesn't want to do it, but to ease someone's mind.
Uh, anyone listening that might be scared. You know, leader Dog really assists you with, uh, setting all that up. And then the, the airlines really do a really good job of [00:25:00] taking care of you, getting you from one spot to the other. It really was not as stressful as, as I thought it was gonna. Uh, because they're, they're really waiting at the plane to take you wherever you need to go.
It's really pretty seamless process. So if anyone is really on the fence about traveling, um, I, I would rest those fears if I were you. It's, it's not that scary. Yeah.
Christina: And that's good to know, um, because you know, a lot of people I'm sure have that question. You know, you shared your day to day, which a lot of people have that question about too, what's every day like.
But I'm sure they also have that question of like, wait, what do I do when I get to the airport? Like, what happens? How do I get from the airport to Leader Dog? Um, but that's a great that you share that cuz we have wonderful. As well that do all of that for us. Yes. Without them, we would not be able to really do what we do, so our volunteers are great.
Yeah. Our goal really at Leader Dog is to ease as much anxie as we possibly can, make things as seamless as possible, and [00:26:00] so that when you're there, you can just focus on the training. Like all of the meals, you, you know, you sit in the same seat each time, so you don't have to wonder where you're gonna sit.
You sit down, the meal is brought to you by our wonderful kitchen staff. Um, you don't have worry about food allergies or dietary restrictions. They take care of all of those different things, really, just so that you can focus on the training, whether that be a white cane. Or a guide dog. We really try to remove any of those added stressors that we can, and that is great that that happens for our clients and all of that.
Um, so, you know, just last question, is there anything that you're looking forward to, you know, doing with Tucker in the new near future? .
Joey: Oh, of course. Well, um, you know, the weather hasn't been, you know, as wintertime and fall. Of course. I don't wanna speak about winter in Georgia compared to what y'all in Michigan?
Yeah. Um, but we are going on a small vacation this coming weekend. We're actually, um, going to Gatlinburg, uh, for a l a weekend getaway in a tree, tree house. But [00:27:00] don't worry, Tucker's not having to climb a tree. . There, there's cabins built in the trees. I don't know. Oh my gosh. Anyway, we're going there and then, um, I'm sure we'll, we'll visit Tivy, uh, this summer.
We usually do. So trying to get out as much as possible. Um, we do cruise sometimes once a year. Um, So if that comes up, that'll be an interesting, uh, getaway with Tucker cuz we ha definitely haven't done that. Um, he hasn't really went anywhere with us yet other than staying around the house. So,
Christina: yeah, we'll definitely get ahold of Timothy cuz he is cruising all the time and traveling and doing all sorts of things.
So I'm sure he'd be happy to give you some tips and tricks.
Joey: Yes, I'm sure he would be very helpful. .
Christina: Well, thank you Joey, so much for joining us today. We really appreciate you taking the time to share your experience. Well, I've
Joey: enjoyed it very much. I'm always here to help if anybody wants to follow along and see anything that me and Tucker do.
Uh, he's got his own Instagram page now, which is pretty much Tucker [00:28:00] Eccentric and it's at, uh, Tucker Tucker underscore Leader Dog. And um, I like to post the pictures and stuff that we do on.
Christina: Perfect. Thank you for sharing that. And thank you so much for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast. I'm Leslie Hoskins with Host Christina Heppner.
We hope you enjoyed hearing about Joy's leader dog experience, and please continue to follow him to check out what him and Tucker are doing. But also please join us next week as we continue to dive into the world of blindness. Yes. And if you'd like to learn more about applying to our free services at Leader Dog, you can head to leader dog.org or call us at (888) 777-5332.
And don't forget, you can reach us at taking the lead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas. If you like today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever podcast. This season of the Taking the Lead podcast is brought to you by a longtime supporter of Leader Dog, the Mary p Dani Halleran Foundation.
As you may know, [00:29:00] generous donors like this one make it possible to achieve our mission. The Mary p Dian Halleran Foundation supports the study of mathematics and mathematics education. For more information about our generous sponsor, visit their website at www dot dol chi halloran foundation dot.