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The Sabbath Life Podcast is about sharing stories from the Abbey of the Heights retreat house in Tulsa—all about finding rhythms of life that make us more human, learning the Christian contemplative tradition, and becoming friends with time.
Peter White (00:01.435)
Welcome to the Sabbath Life podcast where we share stories about finding rhythms of life that make us more human, learning about the Christian contemplative tradition and how we become friends with time. I am Peter White. I'm one of the hosts of the Abbey of the Heights, a Christian retreat space here in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And this is our very first podcast episode. And I am joined today by one of our other hosts of the Abbey, Jackie White. Jackie, you want to say hi?
Jackie White (00:29.36)
Hi everyone. It's good to be here.
Peter White (00:31.407)
Yeah, well, we just wanted to take an opportunity to share the story of the Abbey and what it's all about and what it means to us. So Jackie, do we want to jump right in with that?
Jackie White (00:46.114)
Yeah, let's do it.
Peter White (00:48.145)
How about if we start just with a little bit about what was your experience of starting the Abbey like? What do you remember about that process and what did you want it to be?
Jackie White (01:05.654)
Well, it was back in 2020, if you can rewind and go back to 2020, remember what that was like. You may not want to, I don't know. But that was when our conversations about the Abbey began. We had some neighbors who had this beautiful home and they were in the process of building a new home next door to where they were at.
Peter White (01:12.431)
That's a long time ago.
Jackie White (01:34.83)
And we were talking and I remember the first time you ever brought the idea up to me about wondering what these neighbors were going to do with their home.
It was a beautiful 3,000 square foot craftsman style house. Their family of six were living there and it was a home we were familiar with actually and had always experienced a sense of peace there. We would have breakfast on Saturday mornings and have a prayer time with them as well as some other neighbors for our neighborhood and our kids, know, felt at home there.
playing with our neighbor's friends, our neighbor's kids. And so it was a place that we already kind of had a familiarity with. And you brought up the idea to me of what would it be like if we started a retreat space in that house. And part of me was really excited and kind of lit up.
because it was an idea that we had talked about, but it also seemed like it would be something really far in the future. Maybe when we were retired, having a house and hosting a retreat space where people could come, kind of like a bed and breakfast type of a deal. And so it felt really far off to me. But then when you brought it up, just kind of thinking about the situation of our life at the time, you know, our kids were seven and eight years old.
Life was busy. We were in the middle of a pandemic and trying to figure out how to come out of it.
Jackie White (03:36.094)
We...
Jackie White (03:41.206)
Sorry, gonna have to edit that part out.
Peter White (03:46.417)
Totally easy to do.
Jackie White (03:53.366)
So, yeah, so it didn't seem super realistic to me for many reasons. One of them being I wasn't sure how our neighbors would feel about us approaching them and saying, can we have your house to do this? Crazy idea, right? Because that's kind of what it seemed like to me was this is a crazy idea. And I mean, we've been married for a while at this point in time and I'm kind of used to your crazy ideas.
Peter White (04:11.919)
So crazy, absolutely.
Jackie White (04:21.996)
but I thought they might be a little scared by that crazy idea. And it was a matter of how we were gonna make it work. I mean, I had a flourishing Etsy shop at the time. It kept me busy. We had kids and yeah, I just wasn't sure how the details were gonna work out. But I was like, okay, I mean, if you wanna ask them, we can do that. And.
To my surprise, they were really on board with the idea. They were very hospitable to the idea of, and even helped us with some renovations of how could we make the house usable for people to rent rooms for retreats. And so I was just very grateful to them for that. And God has just been faithful. We didn't know where the funding would come from. We didn't know how to.
We didn't know what we were doing, but God's been faithful every step of the way in it. So those are just kind of some of the places that I walked through during that time.
Jackie White (05:34.547)
What would you add to that story?
Peter White (05:34.673)
Do you wanna sh-
What would I add? Yeah, I remember at the very beginning, so I'd been offering spiritual direction for a number of years at this point in time to a lot of people involved in ministry and some pastors. And at the same time, I was also a corporate chaplain at a car dealership. And so as the pandemic was going on,
all those people were so stressed out and exhausted and worn out. And I remember thinking, this felt like I had this front row seat to how everybody around us, both in and out of the church, nobody had good skills for how to digest these huge feelings that we were all feeling at the time. And as you mentioned, we had had some conversations about what a bed and breakfast.
spiritual retreat place look like in our future and I had experienced the Abbey of Gethsemane in Kentucky when we lived there and so that was and that had been a deep full a deeply impactful experience to me of just experiencing rest and renewal with God and then when I had done my spiritual direction training with Sustainable Faith in Cincinnati and experienced The Convent there
That was another little seed in the back of my head of, this is just a beautiful space. What would it be like to have something like this?
Peter White (07:10.703)
And then later networking with Beth and Dave Booram who similarly had had experienced The Convent and had started Fall Creek Abbey in Indianapolis. And so all these things were kind of fresh in my mind. And so when the opportunity with the Pickards across the street opened up,
I remember reaching out to Beth and David and just asking them all the questions of how does a retreat house work? How do you do this? And they were so generous with their time and their input and feedback. so with their help put together this little plan that I shared with our neighbors and yeah, not knowing what their response was going to be, as you said, and you know,
to my surprise and maybe our surprise together, they said, well, this sounds great. When do you want us to move out? And I just remember thinking, seriously, you're going to let us do this with your house? And so it was in April of 21, then just about five years ago, that they were at a space where they moved out and allowed us to take over.
Jackie White (08:07.301)
. .
Peter White (08:25.557)
and started moving in and it took us a good solid month to get everything ready the way we wanted it. Painting rooms, refreshing some things, getting new furniture set up. Yeah and then it was the end of the month in April five years ago that we started hosting our first guests. Yeah does all of that sound familiar to you?
Jackie White (08:47.377)
Yeah, yeah, I remember it. Late evenings, painting walls, assembling furniture. Yeah.
Peter White (08:49.646)
you
Peter White (08:54.947)
Yeah, yeah, scrambling because we had set a date of an open house and that we had told everybody that we were doing. Well, do you want to share some about like, what is it that you do now at the Abbey of the Heights? What does your involvement look like?
Jackie White (09:13.192)
Yeah, I mean it's changed throughout the years, but currently I am our hospitality coordinator. And so what that looks like is that when somebody decides they want to have a retreat, come to the Abbey of the Heights, I respond to their email request for getting everything set up. I let them know if we have availability. I keep the calendar and I...
communicate with them about what to expect. And then I also just prepare the space and do a lot of behind the scenes things that all the elbow work that it takes to have the house ready for guests. cleaning, laundry, preparing the space, getting everything ready for them. And I also,
What else do I do? Man.
Peter White (10:14.977)
What are you done to?
Jackie White (10:16.01)
What do I not do? Yeah. Part of what I do also is just keeping guests fed. So keeping the fridge stocked with food. When we have our monthly School of Spiritual Direction trainings, I cook for larger groups of people, breakfast and lunch, and get to, yeah, keep everybody fed and happy.
Peter White (10:19.566)
you
Peter White (10:42.961)
What would you say is most important to you about hospitality?
Jackie White (10:53.479)
Yeah, so hospitality, think sometimes in our world we think of hospitality as being kind of transactional or even sometimes being a little bit showy, putting on a perfect performance and keeping a perfect space to impress people. But for me, I think hospitality,
is about love. The idea, I believe that a biblical vision of hospitality is about loving the stranger. And so I think in hospitality, what I want to give people with hospitality here is really just a
Peter White (11:24.337)
Hmm.
Peter White (11:35.024)
Hmm.
Jackie White (11:50.873)
feeling of welcome, a welcome into our space and
really just want someone to experience the love of God while they're here. And so hospitality for me would be making sure that the space is welcoming and comfortable and also just praying for the space before guests arrive, just in being able to anticipate and pray for how God is going to meet someone when they're here.
I want people to just be able to experience God's love and God's welcome when they're here.
Peter White (12:32.57)
Mm-hmm.
Peter White (12:39.409)
I'm hearing you say welcome and love are big pieces of hospitality for you.
Jackie White (12:45.522)
Yes.
Peter White (12:48.166)
A frequent thing I hear people say when they walk in the front door is, it smells so good in here. Can you say anything about that?
Jackie White (12:59.963)
Well, I mean the magic of Glade, but...
Peter White (13:03.321)
You
Jackie White (13:06.192)
Yeah, I mean, I think that a space, when we walk into a space, we use all of our senses. And so smell would be part of that. And so I do like that there's kind of a signature smell to the Abbey of calming lavender. You know, it's just one of those extra little things that makes the experience, you know, a sensory experience.
Peter White (13:13.073)
Yeah. Yeah.
Peter White (13:33.124)
Yeah, yeah. I totally agree that, yeah, we experience our whole bodies. And so but it's been one of those unexpected things to me of how often that comment comes up. yeah, so so you are I often tell people that you're the person responsible for all the decor and how everything looks and feels in the house, the art on the wall, the furniture, the little touches. Is there any
Jackie White (13:45.841)
Mm-hmm.
Peter White (14:01.851)
How would you say, what's your process in thinking about how you want to set things up and what you want people to experience when they come into a space? And maybe added to that, what's a favorite touch you feel like you've added to the Abbey?
Jackie White (14:17.255)
Well, you know, I do enjoy hearing from people who come over and over again, know, who have been repeat guests. Maybe they're in the School of Spiritual Direction. But when they walk in the front door, they describe just this feeling of their body, like deep sigh kind of experience of like just a sense of peace.
Peter White (14:40.709)
Hmm.
Jackie White (14:44.303)
washing over them when they walk in the door. And I think that that's really what I want people to experience is like this is a place of safety and relaxation where they can leave what they bring with them at the door and just be with others and be with God. And so, I mean, I think in terms of decor and color palettes and things, you know, just
Peter White (14:55.216)
Hmm.
Jackie White (15:13.723)
Whatever isn't too busy, you know, I want wide open space, calming colors and space that's just conducive to rest.
Peter White (15:17.776)
Hmm.
Peter White (15:27.805)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Jackie White (15:29.23)
Yeah. And in terms of like personal touches, I mean, I guess the smell is a personal touch that I've provided. I think, you know, the art on the walls, something that I enjoyed doing recently was, yeah, sprucing up some of the art on the walls and using like some icons and some art that just provokes contemplation.
Peter White (15:34.832)
you
Jackie White (15:59.419)
and to be able to be used for Visio Divina.
Peter White (15:59.559)
Hmm.
Jackie White (16:05.016)
And so, you know, I would like to find ways to add value for people who come to stay at the Abbey to provide just kind of some avenues for maybe experiencing God in a way that they haven't before. And so providing some information on Visio Divina, like praying with our eyes over artwork and centering prayer things. I...
Peter White (16:14.289)
Hmm.
Jackie White (16:34.371)
was able to create just a resource binder for people who are here on retreat to just provide some extra ideas for ways to connect with God.
Peter White (16:45.859)
Yeah, yeah. I've had a number of people, especially recently, who have commented on the resource binder of how helpful that was for them that they either walked in without an agenda and didn't know how to start or what to do when they came on the retreat, but found a couple of pieces within that binder that just kind of like got the wheels turning for them and helped them enter in and how grateful they were for that and how good that was.
Jackie White (17:14.309)
Yeah, yeah, it can be kind of daunting to have a large chunk of space and time without an agenda. And that's both good and bad, but just to provide a little bit of direction for someone of what do I do while I'm here.
Peter White (17:21.945)
Yeah, where it's totally quiet.
Peter White (17:28.645)
Yeah. Yeah. So I think something I'm hearing you talk about is how like there are so many details to the Abbey that you designed on purpose. And they're not just, you know, the art on the walls isn't just because it looks cool to you.
or there's a vibe or aesthetic you're trying to do, but you're really inviting our guests into sacred space. maybe that's something that sets the Abbey of the Heights really apart from doing a retreat at a hotel room or an Airbnb, but that our space is carefully curated for you to encounter God.
Jackie White (18:16.793)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I'm curious for you as a host here and kind of part of the vision behind the Abbey of the Heights, what do you hope that people experience when they're here?
Peter White (18:19.665)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Peter White (18:35.887)
Hmm. Well, we have you you painted the sign that is one of the first things that people will see when they walk in the doors. It's it's two pieces of wood that are on either side of the the mantle piece that are from Jeremiah 6:16 that says "Ask for the ancient ways and you'll find rest for your souls," which is a phrase that Jesus then repeats in Matthew 11.
"Come to me all you that are weary and heavy-laden and you'll find rest for your souls." So this finding rest for our souls is what I really hope people find when they, even when from the time they step out of their car and step foot on the property and walk up to the front door, that they really are experiencing something different and unique from their spaces at home and at work that...
Jackie White (19:19.396)
.
Peter White (19:30.605)
isn't escape. don't want people to escape their life, but to really enter into a space where they are finding kind of deep meaning and joy for their lives and the things that they do. Whether they're in ministry or some other kind of caregiving work like mental health or the healthcare field or education. We have all these ways that people pour out their lives for other people and
And that's fantastic and good. And we need to do like, we're made to serve other people, but there's also a cost to it mentally and emotionally that if we're not mindful of, we can burn out of those, those vocations and, our well can, can run dry. And so I hope that the Abbey of the Heights is a place that people can experience some renewal, revisioning rest, almost like a little.
I don't know, like a little oasis on their journey. there's, I think of two particular stories that I often talk about with people from Scripture. And one is from, the story of Elijah where he's just had this big victory over the prophets of Baal. And, it's this high point in his life and his ministry, but then Jezebel puts a price on his head. And so he freaks out and runs to the desert.
and basically tells God that he's done and he's this he would just like to die in the desert and be done with it and he falls asleep and God brings him a meal from these ravens and he's refreshed and then God gives him a new vision and a new new mission for his ministry and and then he goes out and we get a whole new chapter of Elijah's life
and what he does. And so I meet a lot of people in ministry that are experiencing the same thing that Elijah does of just, am exhausted, I'm tired, I'm lonely, I'm done. Is there anything else I can do with my life? And the Abbey of the Heights can be a place for people like that, where you can get something to eat and you get a comfortable bed and some time to be alone with God and listen to God and see how God
Jackie White (21:49.444)
Okay.
Peter White (21:57.458)
refresh you and renew you and give you a new sense of call. So that's one story. I think there's another story that then we see in the Gospels of Jesus where the Gospels tell us that Jesus frequently went to the wilderness to pray. And so I'm always caught by the idea that in the Gospels like Jesus is never in a hurry, he's never frantic going from one thing to the next thing, even though he easily could. He never appears to us stressed.
exhausted. And so I'm wondering how much of this regular rhythm of going away to quiet places to pray is part of Jesus's ability just to to be in the world and encounters people people's need without you know getting topsy-turvy or all of those things. So we've we've had people come and stay at the Abbey who kind of embrace that rhythm.
Jackie White (22:34.531)
.
Jackie White (22:46.446)
Mm-hmm.
Peter White (22:54.863)
I'm thinking particularly of a hospice chaplain who came to us and she paid for like a whole year's worth of day retreats and said, put me on the calendar for the third Friday of every month and I'll be there for a day retreat. And so, and she did every, every month for a season until she retired. And every time she would come, she would say, I am so glad today's my Abbey day because I did five funerals last week and I need a space to relax. And so I think that
The Abbey can be a landing place for people that are tired and need to be refreshed, but also can be a space of like regular rhythm and routine and being proactive about the cost that mentally and emotionally serving others can do for you. And so it's a place to fill yourself up. yeah, that's what I hope that we are for people.
Jackie White (23:47.393)
I'm like, yeah, yeah, I like that. It's good to remember our limits as helpers, limited capacity and when we need to recharge and follow the example of Jesus in that.
Peter White (23:57.766)
Yes, absolutely.
Peter White (24:02.327)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, there's something really beautiful in the incarnation that God himself wanted limits and Jesus experienced all of those limits of being hungry and being tired and needing to sleep and being in one single place at once and we're made in God's image in that way and so being honest about our limits
think is really important.
Jackie White (24:39.199)
Yeah, and that rest at the Abbey is not just about escape. I like that too, and how really the vision is to refresh so that people can take what they experience here at the Abbey with them on their journey back into their life with their work and live with that, taking that with them.
Peter White (24:45.478)
Yeah.
Peter White (25:04.847)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that retreat isn't necessarily a place to go away, but you want to retreat in such a way that you're able to carry it with you on a regular basis, too, as a part of your daily rhythm. That it's an interior thing as much as it is an exterior thing.
Jackie, I'm curious if you could say something to the fact that we on the edge of downtown Tulsa. We're not in the middle of nowhere out in the country. So what would you say to a person who might express something to you of like, I need to get away for a retreat. Why would I come to the middle of the city?
Jackie White (25:59.059)
Yeah, that is something interesting about our context. You know, some people are like, yeah, cool, urban retreat, that's awesome. And some people, yeah, it seems counterintuitive. We had a lady recently who, you know, she lives out on a farm in the middle of nowhere. And I've actually heard this from multiple people of, you they live in a rural setting and so.
how funny it was for them to come to the city for a retreat. But I think it's just that like getting somewhere out of your normal habitat. And so even in the city, it's different. You're in a house that doesn't have things kind of begging for your attention. Your to-do list is not.
not here. And there's also something to the fact that
Peter White (26:59.546)
Mm.
Jackie White (27:07.915)
We're in the middle of the city, but it's like a haven in the middle of the city where we can remember that God is at work all around us. There's so much happening, but even in the midst of that, there's still space for quiet and prayer and rest, kind of like a haven.
Peter White (27:27.791)
Hmm.
Jackie White (27:37.46)
So be.
What what were you going to ask?
Peter White (27:43.803)
Keep going.
Jackie White (27:46.24)
I'm not totally sure where I was going with it, but I think that it's just a fresh experience that we can provide being in a unique setting because when people are living their lives, there's a lot.
Peter White (27:49.753)
Okay.
Jackie White (28:15.914)
to life, life is busy, there are lots of demands. And so there's something about perhaps being in a setting where there's busyness around, but yet still being able to experience rest and peace. And so there's something that then it gives you maybe a bigger imagination for what a regular rhythm of rest could be.
Peter White (28:29.681)
Hmm.
Peter White (28:34.436)
Yeah, yeah.
Jackie White (28:45.927)
if you can still do it in the middle of a neighborhood in a city.
Peter White (28:46.277)
Yeah.
Peter White (28:51.791)
Yeah, yeah, I think that's really critical of if you can... the point really is to be able to experience rest even in the midst of busyness because we don't always have control over the busyness in our lives. And so the ability to know how to listen to God and hold on to God in the midst of those busy spaces. And so maybe there's something about being in a space where
there's traffic around or just the noise of the city nearby that being able to encounter God even there is really important.
Jackie White (29:31.891)
Yeah, and I think about our backyard space. It's like a little oasis in the middle of the city. There is a highway that runs behind it. You know that you can hear obviously the traffic and yet there are invitations to experience God's presence in the garden.
Peter White (29:36.164)
Yeah.
Peter White (29:50.916)
Yeah, yeah, our neighbors that own the property invested 15 years in landscaping the backyard and very passionate about gardening and native plants and agriculture. so we've wanted to add to that over the last several years.
I think that there's, especially in the late spring when everything is green and it's filled out, they're just, you can find all little kinds of nooks and crannies to sit and be alone with God and feel like you're in the middle of nowhere, even though you're, you know, in the heart of the city.
Peter White (30:30.629)
Jackie, do you have any favorite stories that you haven't yet told about things you've seen or experienced at the Abbey?
Jackie White (30:39.017)
Hmm, well, there are so many stories to be told. I do think about, just a guest that we had really recently who was going through like a lot. Her husband had passed away within the last year. She hadn't really had any chance to get away to process that loss.
you know, has a full-time job as a teacher. She, I believe, was in school as well and also in ministry, having an outreach ministry. So just really giving of herself so much, yet needing the space to care for herself. And that she came and stayed for six nights and found that here at the Abbey of the Heights. And, you know,
Toward the end of her visit, she was able to visit with a few of her family members who live locally. And the next day she had told me, know, hey, my sister told me that she hadn't seen me look this rested and this happy in a long time. And that just really hit me of this is why we do what we do. You know, it's making a difference and...
Peter White (31:59.249)
Hmm.
Peter White (32:05.261)
Mm-hmm.
Jackie White (32:08.422)
you know, then she was invigorated to go back to her ministry, just feeling refreshed. And so I just think of that.
Peter White (32:18.417)
Yeah, yeah, that was such a great conversation with her when she was here.
Jackie White (32:24.853)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. What about you? What are some stories that you have that are your favorites?
Peter White (32:30.283)
gosh, there are so many things that have happened over the last five years.
And one thing, one story I think about is, so we do morning and evening prayer Monday through Friday. And so for a season, there was a neighbor who came pretty regularly to morning prayer. And in the midst of that, we had somebody who just out of the blue showed up, who is a pastor on the south part of the city. And, and this pastor looked at my neighbor a little bit as, we had wrapped up prayer and he was like,
Are you doctor so-and-so? And it was like, yeah, I am. And the pastor said, well, you know my neighbor. And so the pastor's neighbor was one of the doctor's patients. And both of them, without knowing each other, had been praying for this guy and what was going on in his life.
And so they immediately connected and over that. And then maybe a month or two later, the pastor brought this neighbor to the Abbey at morning prayer. And it turned out that I had known his dad and brother from the corporate chaplain job that I had. And so the sense of like God weaving these stories together and that the Abbey is a place where kind of those things get brought together is always so humbling.
and just wild to see that that stuff happen. I think of another story of a young pastor who it was a colleague of theirs actually set up the retreat for them. I got this phone call from one of our board members saying one of my colleagues is in crisis and needs a place to stay and so we
Jackie White (34:08.108)
Mm-hmm.
Peter White (34:28.963)
went through a handful of questions just to make sure that this person was safe to be here and and everything seemed to good and so this young pastor was here for two or three days trying to sort out their life as their their personal life was falling apart that within they were doubting if they should stay in seminary and stay in ministry and and later i heard back from our board member
Jackie White (34:53.532)
Mm-hmm.
Peter White (34:56.299)
saying, I really think that this stay at the Abbey saved my colleague's life. So that was really, again, really humbling to be able to part of what God is doing in people's lives and being a safe place when people are just encountering all kinds of things.
Jackie White (35:17.396)
.
Peter White (35:19.685)
those yeah those are a couple stories that come to mind but we could probably do just episode after episode of stories of things we've seen here what what would you say or maybe just some of your favorite things about the work that you get to do
Jackie White (35:37.513)
Hmm, well, I think, you know, I mentioned hospitality as being loving the stranger. And so I think turning strangers into friends would be, you know, just a beautiful picture of something that takes place here. So, you know, getting to host lunch for people.
Peter White (35:51.183)
Mmm.
Jackie White (36:02.597)
who are here on retreat and just getting to hear their stories and hearing how God's moving in their lives and how God's meeting them while they're here would be among my favorite things. Yeah, and I think too, just like being able to...
Peter White (36:16.218)
Yeah.
Jackie White (36:25.187)
be present for some of the School of Spiritual Direction. These groups of people that we have who are here training to be spiritual directors and they're coming five times a year and so getting to develop those relationships with them each time that they come out and be able to have conversations over meals with them.
Peter White (36:52.707)
Yeah, yeah, I would say that's one of my favorite things too. I love that you say turning strangers into friends because that sounds like a really subversive and optimistic way of thinking about the world right now, especially right now. And why maybe maybe what makes our work so important is holding space for that. I love seeing when when multiple people are here together, seeing that happen.
of strangers becoming friends. I remember a book group that I did really early on and I remember four people showed up to read to talk about this book that they'd read. None of them knew each other. They were all strangers when they walked in the room and then by the time we had wrapped up our conversation they were swapping phone numbers and I know that a couple of them were at the same church and then end up being in a small group together but they met here at the Abbey.
Jackie White (37:41.909)
and
Jackie White (37:46.651)
.
Peter White (37:50.862)
Yeah, and seeing the friendships that evolve through the School of Spiritual Direction or our other programs that people have. I love that we've, over the last several months, started a monthly potluck just for people that are nearby that have some kind of contact with the Abbey and some kind of connection with us and that they can meet one another and hear about the various things they've experienced at the Abbey.
Jackie White (38:17.627)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, we've had people make personal connections at that potluck, too, and discover, hey, you live right down the street from me, and swapping phone numbers to go get coffee, you know.
Peter White (38:30.691)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is, and so, yeah. What a wild thing to be able to witness that and just see God's going on in the midst of all that. Well, Jackie, is there anything you are hoping we talk about that we haven't talked about yet?
Jackie White (38:32.773)
such a small world.
Thank
Jackie White (38:54.298)
you
Peter White (38:59.737)
anything else people need to hear about the Abbey of the Heights and our story.
Jackie White (39:08.73)
Hmm.
Jackie White (39:13.198)
I don't know, is there anything for you?
Peter White (39:17.105)
Who would you recommend the Abbey of the Heights to? Who would you want to invite to a retreat here? And why do you think of those people?
Jackie White (39:34.82)
I I think just about anybody can come on retreat. I would invite almost anybody.
A person that comes to mind would be even just moms. I feel like I have a special heart for moms because they give so much. I mean, I'll include myself in that. We give so much to our kids and to our families. And it's easy in that phase of life to get really burned out.
Peter White (39:52.081)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Jackie White (40:13.561)
and just needing a space where our bodies and nervous systems can relax and experience safety where there's no demand on you. And I think that that is just something that's on my heart right now is, you know, for moms. We've had some...
Peter White (40:25.136)
Hmm.
Peter White (40:36.335)
Mm-hmm.
Jackie White (40:43.413)
mothers who have come to the Abbey and just talked about how wonderful it was to be in a peaceful space and not be needed by anybody for a few days, you know, and how refreshing and recharging it was.
Peter White (40:45.563)
Yeah.
Peter White (40:56.729)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Peter White (41:04.207)
Yeah, that makes me think of two particular couples I can remember. have a son with special needs and they booked an overnight stay with us and they commented that this was their first night out since their son had been born. And what do we do in downtown Tulsa? What should we do? They were like, you know, excited puppy dogs, just thrilled to have some time for themselves.
And then I think of another couple, a pastor and his wife, and they both have young kids and say, they together booked two nights. And so, but they kind of tag teamed it so that he stayed the first night and she was at home with the kids. And then the next day she came up and he went home so that she could have a day to herself and he could be home with the kids. And I thought that was a really creative way to, even though they're a young family involved in ministry.
Jackie White (41:54.466)
Mm-hmm.
Peter White (42:00.252)
they were making ways to take care of one another and be with the Lord.
Jackie White (42:05.944)
Mm-hmm.
Peter White (42:07.643)
Yeah, yeah. Well, Jackie, thanks so much for being here, for sharing your experience of the Abbey. Thank you all for listening with us.
that you want to know more about the Abbey. If you would like to know more and to look into booking your own retreat, you can go to the Sabbathlife.com and find the button there to make a booking. And you can read all about the ministry and work of the Sabbath life. There's a short little documentary that a friend of ours made a couple of years ago.
But we, again, we noticed, or we mentioned that this is our very first podcast episode. We want to be, we want to be talking to our friends that have experienced the Abbey and in all of its many ways. And so we want to share with you some of those stories. And so that's something that you can expect to see in this space in the coming weeks. And we're just excited to talk to those people and hear those stories and hear maybe stories we haven't even heard yet.
But so, so yeah, so may you know in the deepest parts of your soul that you are God's beloved. Until next time. Bye
Jackie White (43:16.024)
Bye.